Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL: Brian Laundrie Parents 'Forgot When He Left Home!'

Episode Date: October 6, 2021

Brian Laundrie's parents tell police that they were mistaken on the day Brian left to hike Carlton Reserve. Laundrie's parents originally said the last time they had seen their son was on September 14, when he told them he was going to hike, The family's attorney, Steven Bertolino, now says the parents "misremembered" the date, that Laundrie actually left on September 13th, a day earlier. This new information comes as a former medical examiner says the FBI's decision to keep possession of Gabby Petito's remains and failure to release the cause of death is unusual. Retired New York City Chief Medical Examiner and forensic pathologist Michael Baden tells Fox News that he sees no reason to keep the "whole body" from the family. Currently, the remains are still in federal custody.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills) Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Mahsa Saeidi - Investigative Reporter, WFLA-TV (Tampa), Twitter/Instagram: @MahsaWho, Facebook: "WFLAMahsa" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. In the last hours, a bombshell. Apparently, so-called boyfriend Brian Laundrie's parents, remember the ones that were so worried he was missing in the Carlton Reserve, 25,000 acres of swamp, and he might be suicidal? Oopsie. They got the date wrong as to the last time they saw their child. They're so worried about him, they get the date wrong as to the last time they see him? Think about it. Do you know the last time you saw your child? Because I do. And guess what? I even know what they were wearing and they'd kill

me if they knew I said this on air. I even know what underwear they had on because I laid it out last night. How can you, when your child is missing and you think they're suicidal, why would you give the FBI the wrong date? Why would you give the cops the wrong date when you're reporting him missing? Let's think about it. Hmm. Could it be to give him another day's head start. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, why are we so angry about this?

Because a beautiful girl was lying out in the open in the wilderness with her body decomposing, with potential of animals tearing her body apart, apart while the parents either unwittingly, grossly negligently, or outright lying about the day their son went missing. That's why. Because it matters. That's why. Take a listen to this. The Laundrie family attorney coming out revealing some interesting new information about the timeline uh of when they last saw brian laundry take a listen to this the laundry family

attorney has released this to our very own kim kuzan fox 13 in tampa saying upon further communication with the fbi and confirmation of the Mustang being at the Laundrie residence on Wednesday, September 15th. We now believe the day that Brian left to hike in the preserve was Monday, September 13th. Originally, they were saying it was Tuesday was the last day that they saw Brian Laundrie and then eventually reported him missing to the authorities. They're now switching it up and saying the last day was Monday. They say that their recollection was wrong. OK, you are hearing our friend Christy Larson live now at Fox. Now, listen to this.

She says upon further discussion, further communication with the FBI, they realized their recollection was wrong. Upon further communication with the FBI. I see that as something like, hey, you lied to us about the day he went missing. And they go, what? I think it could be a communication something like that. Joining me, an all-star panel. I hear them breaking in. At first I heard Dale Carson, a high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former FBI agent at DaleCarsonLaw.com.

Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst to the stars at DrBethanyMarshall.com. Joining us out of L.A., Cheryl McCollum, Founder Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand new hit series, Body Bags, with Joseph Scott Morgan on iHeart. But first to Masa Saidi joining us, investigative reporter WFLA-TV. Masa, how could they get the date wrong? They're so worried about their son being allegedly suicidal that they don't get the date right. They don't remember the last time they saw him. Yes. So the attorney saying that the laundries were basing that date based on their recollection of certain events.

But what this means, Nancy, is originally they had reported him missing on September 17th. So that means that he would have had three days that he had been missing. Well, now we know that he likely had four days. With me, investigative reporter WFLA-TV, it's Masa Saidi. He's been on this case from the get-go. Masa, will you say that first part again? They were basing the date on what? The laundry, this is, I'm going to read directly from the text from the Laundrie family attorney.

Quote, the Laundries were basing the date Brian left on their recollection of certain events. Okay, stop right there. Of certain events. Okay, stop right there. Of certain events. Sharon McCollum, that sounds like lawyer talk for recollection of certain events. Well, let's get to it, Nancy. His sister Cassie said a detective called her

while she was on vacation. That means a detective called them. That means people were reaching out to them beyond Gabby's family. This was getting serious. So the closer they're getting to the September 11th, she's formally, officially reported missing. That means the 12th and the 13th. The 13th being a Monday. That's when all the detectives and everybody are back in and probably started making these phone calls.

And he left. And this panel, we said a week and a half ago that he left prior to when Mama would say he left. So I'm telling you, not only did he have a four dayday jump, he has successfully now been ghost 23 days, at least. Whoa, I'm just taking that in. So, Masa Saidi, joining me, WFLA, they are now saying he went missing on what day exactly? They are now saying we believe the day Brian left the hike, you know, the Carlson Reserve, was Monday, September 13th. Monday, September 13th. Okay, Dale Carson, joining me out of Florida.

Dale Carson, you want it in? Go ahead. Yeah. This is where we know from the response of the lawyer that the FBI is making inquiries directly to the family and having some conversation with them. Because the bureau pointed out hell the car was back here then that's not possible you're lying to us okay hold on whoa the car the mustang which i'd like to point out sister cassie says was quote their mustang which means it's the family's mustang which means was this guy even making a car payment? I mean, he's living at home in his childhood room with posters on the wall, not judging.

Was he not even making a car payment? I mean, it's just reminding me so much of Scott Peterson, how his mother and father, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He could do no wrong. And to this day, they don't accept that he killed Lacey, which is a question for you, Dr. Bethany. Hold on. But Dale Carson, you're saying that the Mustang was parked in the driveway, which proves their timeline was wrong. Explain. Sure. The Bureau would look at that because they would know whether the car was there or not. And because witnesses in the neighborhood would tell them.

So they call the family and say, wait a minute, there's some inconsistencies here. And they're either talking to the attorney or they're talking to the family. And the result is they're saying to the family, look, you're lying. You said this, this, and this, but that's not true. What really happened was this. Now, what do you have to say about that? And so the Bureau still engaged with that family at some level more than what we're hearing on on media. Well, I guarantee you they're engaging with the family lawyer, Bertolino, and not with the family. But let me ask you this, straight back out to you, Mr. Saidi, do you think or can you extrapolate that that's where the FBI got the information and figured out they were not forthcoming about the true date? Let me just say it, lied about the date he went missing

because of the Mustang? Yeah, it's unclear if the FBI is talking directly with the family or with the attorney. The text is unclear. I don't know the answer to that, Nancy. My question is, did the Mustang, is the Mustang what gave away that they lied about the date he left? Yes, Cheryl, jump in. We know the FBI is talking because Cassie said they're talking to her directly. She said, even when she spoke, their Mustang. She didn't say Brian's Mustang. Right. I already said that. I'm trying to get to how the FBI knew they lied about the date Brian Laundrie took off. Is it because of the Mustang? Simple. Does anybody know the answer? Yes, it is because of that. Why? Explain, Cheryl. You're saying yes.

I'm saying that I believe it's ring video from neighbors. I think they can prove when that Mustang was moved and when it wasn't. They have it on video. So then the answer would be yes, because of the times the Mustang was parked in the driveway. Is that correct, Cheryl? Correct. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, in the last hours, there's been a major shift.

And the reason there's a major shift is because a lot of what the FBI and the police have done may have been on the wrong date. And we know Joe Scott Morgan, everybody on this panel knows this. Step one, establish your timeline. If the timeline is wrong, your investigation is wrong, which means they've been searching tolls, fast food, ring cameras for one date when they should have been checking for the day before. Get it? That's a lot of hard work. Man hours, surveillance invested in the first timeline.

That's down the crapper, Joe Scott. It's no good. No wonder they didn't find evidence because they had the wrong date. Yeah. You know, Nancy, there's a reason that there's been a hit TV show called the first 48 hours for years. And that's why it's that golden period of time in an investigation. Those first 48 hours is the most critical time in any investigation, particularly in a missing persons case, a death investigation, moving forward, because everything is fresh. The further you get downrange from that central point in time, evidence begins to wither. Memories begin to fade and you're losing things all the way along.

So the fact that they have if they're if if if if they're involved in any level of deception here, this this creates a huge gap in time and huge problem for the investigator. Cheryl, you hear Morgan. He's very calm. I don't think that I'm verbalizing what a big deal this is, that the timeline has been all wrong. It's not the FBI's fault. It's not the police fault. It's the parents' fault. Explain why this is so critical, Cheryl. It is so critical because time and evidence has been lost, but also it shows us that they, again, were not worried about their son harming himself, getting lost, getting hurt, getting eaten by alligator, or whatever else they were trying to say with that reserve.

They don't even know what day he left. They don't even know what day he left. They don't even know what day he left. Okay, let me just ask you a question, Cheryl McCollum. I'm sad to report, everybody, that Cheryl McCollum's children have left her home. They've gone to college. Sad for her. Happy for them. But this is a one-word answer, Cheryl.

I'm afraid you've been around us lawyers too long to do that, but can you remember the last time you saw in person Caroline? Absolutely. Okay. How about your son? Can you remember that? Absolutely. I can too. No question. I can remember. I can remember the last time I saw my fiance before his murder. The very last time. Everything about it. I can remember the last time I saw my father before he passed away. And that was both years and years ago. But they can't remember when their son left the house and never came back. Dr. Bethany Marshall, I think I need a shrink. Help me. What's going on? Well, not only did he leave the house, but they didn't know where he was going. Can you imagine as a parent, your child leaves and admittedly he's an adult child, but he leaves and they have no idea what's the plan. Where is he

going? What is he going to do? Nancy, I think that what's been happening in that. Okay. Dr. Bethany cut out on me. I think he did tell them that he was, according to them, going to Carleton Reserve. Of course, many of us believe that's not true. In the last hours, the parents change the timeline, basically pulling the rug out from under the FBI. And Masa Saidi joining me, investigative reporter, WFLA-TV. Let me know when you get Bethany back. The lawyer says, as Masa has already accurately reported,

upon further communication with the FBI, well, here you go, Dale Carson, you're so right, yet again, and confirmation of the Mustang being at the Laundrie residence on Wednesday, September 15, we now believe the day Brian left to hike in the preserve was Monday, September 13. So, Dale, what do they mean by further communication with the FBI? Let me tell you something. You answer the door and somebody's standing there with FBI

on the front of their jacket, you got a problem. You got a big problem. FBI communication, my rear end, what do you think happened? Well, I can tell you what I think happened is this. When they went missing, when the child went missing, and the family has no reaction to that, and they certainly know that everyone in the country is looking for him. That is very, very unusual.

I used to handle unlawful flights to avoid prosecution cases, UFAP cases. And in each of those cases, when you contacted the family, they were like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're looking for him? Let me see if I can find him because I don't want you all to find him in the middle of a night in an alley and hurt him. And none of that is, as Cheryl points out, is happening in this scenario. It's all real bland and just unemotional coming from the lawyer and the family members. Nobody is concerned. And there's a reason for that.

They know where he is. Another bombshell we are learning now, according to reports, that Gabby's devastated, her heartbroken parents were forced to hold her memorial with an empty urn, which leads me to why hasn't the body been released to the family? And why hasn't the COD cause of death been released? First to you, Masa Saidi, joining me, WFLA-TV. What do we know? I mean, many people believe she had been cremated, but is that not true? Is that an empty urn? So, yes, we now know that that golden urn that was surrounded by flowers and angelic pictures of Gabby, we now know that that was empty. We learned that at the news conference in New York the first time the family spoke after the funeral. They confirmed that the body was still with the Teton County coroner.

Now, it's unclear to me if it is because the autopsy isn't finished or it's because the FBI is not releasing the body for some investigative purpose. But we are in touch with the family. And last night, WFLA was able to confirm the family still does not have Gabby's body. The body is still out in Wyoming. They are waiting for a phone call, and then they are going to all head out to Wyoming to retrieve the body. And what that does, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Psycho Alice joining me out of LA, is it prolongs the suffering because they can't lay her to rest until they have her body and they bury her or they cremate her or whatever they're

going to do. It just drags the whole thing out. Much as this manhunt for Brian Laundrie is doing to them, much as a trial will ultimately do to them, it drags the whole grief process out and makes it so much worse. You know what, Nancy? A colleague of mine once said endings are just as important as beginnings. We talked about Cheryl McCollum's children going off to college. The ending of them living in her house is important. But I mean, the beginning of their college is important, but the ending, the graduation ceremonies, the moving on to the next phase is incredibly important.

And it's the same with life and death. When Gabby was born, a celebration, balloons, the first birthday, but this is the ending where she is laid to rest. And often with funerals, there's something called a viewing. Not every family has a viewing, but why is there a viewing? So people can see that the spirit is no longer in the body, that that corporeal presence is not going to be on this earth anymore. They do not have her body cremated or not cremated to prove that her spirit has departed from her body. That is a trauma. Nancy, just as we're discussing, you know, Brian left Monday rather than Tuesday,

the body's not coming back, what happened to the body when it was out there in the wilderness? This is all cumulative trauma for them. Every time they're hit with a new piece of news, they have to digest it, they have to see- You're cutting out on me, Dr. Bethany. I hear you, but I'm getting every other word. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace i want you in while we're trying to again establish dr bethany's connection please take a listen to our cut two six zero this is our friend dr michael bond speaking to fox news another suspicious part of this whole situation is that, and some of the people

question, her body was not released to her family yet. That's very unusual also in this country. In some countries, they'll keep a body until after the trial a year or two later, but in case they miss something. But normally, death occurs as tragic as it is with a homicide. And the family has a right to bury the body or cremate the body the next day or two days from that. Here, there's been a long delay, I guess, because of the concern about not missing anything. But more important, I think, will be the same people who gave police information about the trips they took and how they were seen along the way may find something in how the death occurred. Most probably in these situations, strangulation is the most common way of a death occurring under these circumstances, that will provide a clue that the police might be able to work with.

Here we're hearing our friend Dr. Michael Bodden take another listen to ARCA 259. If they know the cause of death, why, in your estimation, has it not been released? Well, it's unusual not to release the cause of death. Why, in your estimation, has it not been released? Well, it's unusual not to release the cause of death, especially if they're releasing the manner of death. In order to get to the manner of death, you've got to know what the cause of death is. And part of it is that this is a federal investigation. Since the body was found on federal property, It was a federal investigation. And there aren't too many federal homicides. So that I think there's just a caution involved by the investigators to make sure they didn't miss anything. But in the normal course, the cause of death would have been

released immediately with the manner of death. Again, you're hearing a renowned medical examiner. That was Dr. Michael Bodden. Okay, jump in, Dale Carson. You know, one of the reasons for this is that the FBI, when they conduct matters like this, their discovery requirements, the information they have to provide to other defendants in this case,

is limited more than the states. So the result is they don't have to tell. There's no disclosure requirement. In addition to which, every time you give information to the defense, they're able to fabricate a reason why it wasn't true. And so you give them more time. In every federal case I'm involved in, there's this extreme delay in the Omnibus Discovery Act that allows the government to withhold information sometimes up until three days before trial. So you're agreeing then with Michael Biden at this because it's a Fed decision. So Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, you've been on literally tens of thousands of death scenes.

What is the holdup? We know manner of death is homicide, but they're refusing to release cause of death. I find it very odd, too, that the body has not been released to the parents. That's very unusual. Yeah, it is. And, you know, the fact that the body has not been released is a separate issue than the cause. Let me go to the cause. Dr. Biden very well knows that sometimes it takes a protracted period of time to come up with a specific cause of death because you have to do all of the testing. It's called forensic science, not microwave science. It's not something that's turned around in a day. I predicted this going in. I'm still staying by that.

It's going to take days upon days. We're only 15 days down range. They've got compromised tissue samples. We're talking about a body that has been decomposed out in the wilderness. They are attempting to do toxicology with whatever they have remaining. Hey, we're playing ping pong, not chess here. Sum it up, please. Was that it?

Okay, Cheryl McCollum, he paused. So I'm jumping in. I'll tell you what I think it is. I think it's about DNA. I think that's why they went back to the laundry house to get that envelope or package off the back porch for DNA, not to identify something they found in Carleton Reserve, but to match up to potential DNA they have found on her body. Sharon McCollum explained what the vac would be used for. Here's what I believe they're doing.

I think there's two reasons. One is DNA. They did go back to the house. They also went to the camper. They wanted things that belonged only to Brian, because keep in mind, we don't have his DNA. They did go back to the house. They also went to the camper. They wanted things that belonged only to Brian because keep in mind, we don't have his DNA. We don't have his fingerprints. So you can always get the mom's mitochondrial, but it wouldn't be the same. Go ahead. Absolutely. But they do want to be able to say this was his DNA found here. The second reason is FOIA. Until they release everything, they don't have to file an

autopsy report, which means they don't have to give that out, which means even the media is not going to know what the cause of death is until they get ready to release it. Okay. Go through that one more time, please. Okay. As long as they hold the body, as long as it's still ongoing, they are not filing an autopsy report that you can get under the Freedom of Information Act. They are not releasing the cause on purpose. They're holding this whole thing close to the vest. There are things they know and have known that we're still playing catch-up about.

I believe they've known about the 13th. I think that's why they keep going back to Cassie. The FBI told her not to talk. Her parents told her not to talk. Yet she's still talking. She's talking in the front yard. She's talking to Good Morning America. Cassie's a leak here. She has information, so they don't want them to know anything. Yes, agree. If it's an ongoing investigation, typically FOIA, Freedom of Information Act, or as in some places it's referred to as a Sunshine Act, which means everything's out in the open, nothing behind closed doors. Freedom of Information Act can be defeated by an ongoing investigation defense. If you say this is an ongoing investigation, the autopsy is not complete yet. You don't have a document that you can be forced to give out because it's ongoing.

If it's not ongoing, you can get such documents under Freedom of Information Act very often. Now, here's another wrench in the works, fly in the ointment. We now learn, you remember the question we've been asking or I've been asking from the very beginning because I felt, didn't know why, that it was significant. Did Brian Laundrie fly home to his mommy in the middle of his road trip with Gabby and fly back. When I asked the parents, they said, we can't talk about that, which told me it did happen. And I wonder why. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace take a listen to this we have new information in the gabby petito murder investigation the

attorney for brian laundry's family has confirmed that brian flew home to florida then back to utah in the middle of the couple's road trip the The attorney says Brian went to Florida to obtain some items and close a storage unit, leaving his fiancee alone out west. Brian returned to Utah August 23rd, four days before Gabby was last seen alive. We were analyzing clues left behind yesterday regarding that. Now it's all out in the open. Well, partially out in the open with his family. Nothing's ever totally out in the open. We now know he did fly home in the middle of the trip and he then flew back. But why? Joining me on the ground, Masa Saidi, investigative reporter, WFLA-TV. Masa, what do we know?

You got to keep in mind, Nancy, what's very significant to me is that blow up, that domestic dispute that was captured on body cam video. That happened August 12th. So the couple, Gabby and Brian, were separated August 12th. August 13th is this. We assume that's when they reunited back together. Well, now we know that on August 17th, he packed up and he flew to Tampa. And the attorney saying that to his knowledge, Brian and Gabby paid for the flight and that they came back

because they were contemplating extending the road trip. So they wanted to save some money. So right after this Moab, Utah incident, they decide, hey, let's go ahead and extend this cross country trip trip. I'm going to go fly back and close our storage unit. And then they reunited together on the 23rd. Wait, wait, wait. That's where you lost me right there. Let's save money and extend our road trip by flying home and closing up a storage unit. So somehow the $28 you're going to pay for a storage unit a month saves you money as

opposed to a $500 round trip ticket from Wyoming to Florida? No. I mean, I didn't get my MBA at Wharton, but I do know that much. Could you explain to me what are you saying? So I'll just read you this one sentence. The attorney said, quote, Brian flew home to obtain some items and empty and close the storage unit to save money as they contemplated extending the road trip. Were Gabby's belongings in that or Gabby's belongings in that storage unit, I wonder? The assumption would be that it was the items from both of them, but I can get clarification for you.

Okay, let me understand what's happening, Cheryl McCollum. I'm sure you've got a spin on it. Go ahead. Nancy, you already brought up a major point that you're going to spend $500 to save $80. It makes no sense. And then they claimed, again, they were sharing expenses. Well, they were sharing expenses right up until she died because then he used her debit card only.

Deadbeat. Why didn't he use all that money he saved? Exactly. It's not true. Nothing they say is the truth. Nothing. Let's analyze. This is her van. Her van. the truth. Nothing. Let's analyze. This is her van.

Her van. Her laptop. Yep. She's the one that saved up money for the trip. After she's dead and lying out under a tree in the Teton wilderness, he uses her debit card multiple times, knowing that she's laying out dead, decomposing. I mean, how do you fix yourself to do that? Dr. Bethany Marshall, I'm going to give you one more try here and hopefully I can hear you this time. How do you whip out your dead girlfriend's debit card and use it, what, to go to McDonald's? I mean, how does that work in that mind it happened

to me once when my late husband died of cancer one of his debit cards was missing and I later found out that a family member was using it and it was devastating and this happens more than you think after somebody dies that the debit card is used. Nancy, Brian Landry doesn't have cause and effect thinking. He doesn't think anybody's really looking at him. He thinks he can act with impunity. I know why he went back to empty out the storage facility. There was evidence of him abusing her for a long, long time. I'm sure there were diaries. I'm sure there were notes of calling friends. There were computers. There was electronics and electronic trail. This abuse did not happen overnight. It didn't happen when the Moab police pulled them over. This was just

tip of the misery iceberg for them. So he had to scramble and he didn't have enough money to scramble, so he started using her money. Yeah, I think you're right about that. I want to confirm something. Hey, Nancy. Go ahead. Sorry, storage units have excellent video as well. They've got surveillance 24-7, so that, again, should be easy for law enforcement to ascertain whether or not that happened. Nancy, and that shows a deliberate premeditation to what would happen after he returned to Moab. What do you mean?

Well, I mean, if he came back to destroy evidence knowing that he was going to kill her, that would be an excellent time to do that if you subscribe to what we just discussed. Hmm. I don't know that it was a premeditated plan to kill. Yes. And so that allows plenty of time to organize your departure and to set up a safe house. Let me understand something, Master Saidi. I want to confirm Gabby was seen alive when they checked out of the hotel in Utah, correct? And that was after the storage unit incident, correct? That is correct. She's been alive August 27th.

Yes. The storage incident happened about a week before, yep. So I'm trying to figure that whole thing out. I guarantee you it was not to save money. That's not true because flying back and forth did not save money. There's another reason he came home to clean out that storage unit.

Got a big question for anybody that can answer. If police were employing a stingray device right now to try to catch an alleged burner phone the laundries are using, if, would that be obvious? Who can explain what a stingray device looks like? Dale here, it looks like a small computer. And what it's used to do is to emulate a cell phone tower. So they get near a phone, your phone picks up, that's the closest tower, it links to it. From that, you can determine specific locations of people, and they're allowed under general federal law to do that without a warrant. The problem arises when you're actually listening to the transmissions. When that happens, of course, you have to have a Title III, which is a federal search warrant for a wiretap.

You have to have a wiretap to actually listen in. So, my point is, if they were using a stingray, let's just say, not like you see in the movies, where there's always a Keystone cop sitting out in a car near the location, and the target sees them, and it's a big joke, and they order them pizza.

No. This would be the feds in a vehicle, unmarked vehicle, not a black SUV. Or a aircraft. Yeah. With the stingray in the car, you can't see it. It's not some big, huge object. It's basically a mobile and easy-to-use cell tower. But what that would mean is, since we've all been talking about burner phones and stingrays, the parents, in order to escape that, avoid that, I mean, we know the dad is coming out

of the house in the middle of the night, like 2 a.m. to get the mail. So they're on to everything. They're smart. They know everything we're talking about. So in order to make a burner phone work, they got to leave the house and go And let me go back to the storage unit one more time because I don't think I made myself clear. I do not believe he went to the storage unit on the 17th. I believe he went to a storage unit once he returned the second time. On the 17th, I believe he flew home because after he talked to his parents about the police involvement, they brought him home.

And then he went back. Okay, explain that one more time. Jackie was signaling something. Go ahead. What? I think he went to the storage unit after he returned on September 1st to get camping gear. Think about it. This is your home that you grew up in. You already have your stuff. Gabby moves in with you there. Y'all been living there a year. What do you need a storage unit for? You're going to come home in four months and go right back to living there. The storage unit would be things that wouldn't fit in that house. I believe it was tents and cots and rafts and things of that nature. That's why I think he went to the storage unit. So there's some truth that he did go to the storage unit

to clean some stuff out, but it was not to save money. It was to get his gear. Guys, we are talking about the most recent developments in the search, the manhunt for Brian Laundrie. Gabby Petito's parents insist he is alive and hiding. There are still, are there not, Masa Saidi searchers at Carleton Reserve? Very small. We go out there every day, and yesterday we didn't spot anyone, but if we see anybody, it's about like a handful of

what appears to be law enforcement officials on the ground on an airboat with a canine searching the swamp area. Right. If you have information or think you have information, it's even now more critical because the timeline has changed. Please 1-800-CALL-FBI, 1-800-225-5324. As has been pointed out by our experts, Brian Laundrie has managed to ghost us for 23 days with a major head start. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.