Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL: GABBY PETITO STRANGLED DEAD

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

After weeks of speculation, we now know how Gabby Petito died. The Teton County, Wyoming, coroner, Dr. Brent Blue, says Petito’s death is strangulation. Petito’s boyfriend Brian Laundrie is a person of interest in her disappearance but has not yet been named a suspect in her death investigation. Although Blue made reference to domestic violence in his press conference. Brian Laundrie has been missing since September 13, two days after Petito was reported missing. He returned to his Florida home on September 1 without Petito, but with the converted camper van the couple had been traveling in on their cross-country road trip. Laundrie is currently the subject of a federal warrant alleging he accessed funds from another person’s bank account, which he was not authorized to use, in late August and early September.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospita Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"  Mahsa Saeidi - Investigative Reporter, WFLA-TV (Tampa), Twitter/Instagram: @MahsaWho, Facebook: "WFLAMahsa" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last moments, a stunning development in the Gabby Petito case. We now learn Gabby Petito strangled dead. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The coroner has released the cause of death. Take a listen to this. I'm Dr. Brent Lou, Teton County, Wyoming, coroner. the cause of death. strangulation, and manner is homicide.

By Wyoming State statute, only the cause and manner of death are released. There are autopsy findings and photographs and that sort of material is not released by state statute. What is the coroner withholding from us and why? Is there bruising? Was it manual strangulation? Was it a ligature? What else about that autopsy do they not want us to know yet? Again, thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of it all. Joining me, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags at WendyPatrickPhD.com and host of Today with Dr. Wendy KCBQ, Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist. Joining us from the

Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum at ColdCaseCrimes.org. Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. And star of a new hit series on iHeart Podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. But straight out to investigative reporter with WFLA-TV. Joining me right now, Mazza Saidi, on the case from the very beginning. Were you surprised at all with what the coroner said? Strangulation death.

I mean, it has been just an absolutely heartbreaking day. We know that the Petito family knew this was coming, that officials were in touch with them. But as you said, we just learned from the Teton County coroner that Gabby Petito family knew this was coming, that officials were in touch with them. But as you said, we just learned from the Teton County coroner that Gabby Petito was strangled. It's unclear if it was manual or with an object. We also learned that her body had been outside in the wilderness, likely for three to four weeks before it was discovered. We had no other information about her remains, as you mentioned right off the top, Nancy, about any potential prior injuries, the body. And then he was discovered. He was found dead in the hospital. He was recovered. We had no other information about her remains,

as you mentioned right off the top Nancy about any potential prior injuries that the body had been moved. None of that the Teton County corner, Dr Brent Blue kept saying that his job was only to determine the cause of death and the manner

of death. Reporters were peppering him with tons of questions. Everyone was asking him about Brian Laundrie about the potential suspect, and he kept saying that he could reveal nothing about the suspect. But then he made a statement that to me was stunning. He said, unfortunately, and I'm quoting here, he said, this is only one of many deaths around the country of people who are involved in domestic violence. And when he said that, that just struck me, because he said he couldn't reveal anything about the suspect. But then he made that statement. I do want to be clear that officials have not released any information directly linking Brian Laundrie to Gabby Petito's death.

He's wanted for bank card fraud. Nancy. OK, hold on right there. Master Saeedi, I usually appreciate every single thing you say without exception. And that was a real catch that you caught where the coroner actually said this is just another case where a woman is dead after domestic and that has been involved in domestic violence. The parsing of the words is very, very critical here. And you caught that. But when you say that Brian Laundrie is not a domestic, is not the person of interest in the murder, are you suggesting, Masa, that Brian Laundrie takes her possessions, takes her laptop, takes her vehicle,

takes her debit card, uses her debit card, drives across the country without her in her laptop, takes her vehicle, takes her debit card, uses her debit card, drives across the country without her in her van, and then somebody else just happened along their campsite and killed her? I completely understand what you're saying. I just wanted to make it clear that as of right now, the only documents that I've seen, he's wanted for bank card fraud, and he's been named a person of interest in her disappearance. And then later we found out that she was dead, that it was a homicide. Now we know it was strangulation. I completely understand what you're saying.

I'm just trying to be extra to stick to the court documents here, Nancy. Well, you're right, Master Saeedi, of course, WFLA-TV. Joining us straight out to founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Okay, Cheryl McCollum, we called it. Yep. Strangulation. Yep. Asphyxiation. Weigh in. It's going to be manual, and I will tell you, it jumped out at me as well when they, you know, he leaked the domestic violence part, but there were three things in addition to the strangulation announcement that I wrote in on, the domestic violence comment, the fact that he mentioned she was not pregnant. So that gets rid of one motive right there that eliminates what some people were theorizing.

And then the third thing, he confirmed that law enforcement did come and get DNA samples, proved no one else touched her. You know, that's very significant. And I am just wondering if there's any chance whether semen survived, whether epithelial cells survived, whether saliva or any type of DNA on her body could have survived three to four weeks in the elements. Out to you Joe Scott Morgan, what about it? Yeah, I think that would be very difficult, Nancy, externally. Now internally, and again, we don't know anything relative to sexual assault or anything like that. Internally, you got a better shot. Externally, I think that it's a long shot at best to recover any kind of DNA. Well, wait a minute, what about on clothing? Perhaps on clothing, but again, it would have to be shielded and protected, Nancy. Consider that we went through

multiple, multiple days out in the exposed area. We're talking about rain. We're talking about wind. We're talking about heat, which can come, you know, this biological sample is very, very fragile, Nancy, when you begin to think about the DNA. And plus, plus it's already in dwelling in an environment in which a body is decomposing. And again, that adds a whole nother layer of compromise as far as physical evidence is concerned. Cheryl McCollum, she's strangled to death. I agree with you. It's going to be manual strangulation and a fit of anger, which does not negate premeditation or intent. But what about on the back of her neck that was shielded by her hair, protected by her hair? Do you think there's at all of epithelial cells?

And is it time to bring in the vac? Absolutely. It's beyond time for that. What I imagine is after 23 days of those harsh elements, extreme heat and extreme cold, and then the wildlife they have out there, it's going to be probably virtually nil. I will say, remember the fire pit that was near her that I believe the killer would have built. There were items there that might have been rummaged through, perhaps put back in a backpack or some type of container. If that's the case, whoever touched one of those items, again, that might have been protected somewhat.

And that's what I would say. What about her fingernails? You know she had to fight back. Yeah, Nancy. Yeah, and I can tell you that at autopsy they would have done nail scrapings and also nail clippings. And, again, he's not releasing any of this. I want a picture of Gabby, please, he's not releasing any of this. He's not releasing any of this information. You know, he keeps stating as well. He should,

that it's not, you know, if per statute, he cannot release it. One other significant thing here, Nancy, that we're forgetting is that he was specifically asked if she was in fact buried. And he didn't say either way. Now, we've heard some reports that say she was on top of the ground, but he didn't really go there. Now, I will say this. If she was buried in any way, any portion of the body, that could act as potentially a shield. But again, we don't have that information. Yeah, Nancy, please come to me. Go. I want to say this for everybody to hear me one more time. If Brian Laundrie is her killer, he is lazy. He has not buried her. He would not have buried her. No, ma'am.

No way. No, he left her out there. Don't you guys remember? Think about it. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, joining us. Remember, we could see there were aerials of everyone out there looking and all of a sudden they looked over and saw something and went over there. Yes. And I'm telling you, she was not buried. Cheryl McCollum is correct. I wish it was as Joe Scott theorized that she

had been buried and maybe some of that DNA would have been saved. But no, she was not buried. Yeah. And you know what, Nancy, that actually might be something that a future prosecutor uses to our advantage because it's not going to be solved through DNA unless, of course, there was third party DNA. But you would expect this couple's been together forever. Brian Laundrie's DNA is all over her. But it's really solved through the circumstantial evidence of what happened afterwards. We know we have the cause of death. Hopefully they can put Brian in the vicinity. I don't know whether we'll find a specific day and time, but at least a range.

And then look at his conduct afterwards, the using the credit card, flying back home. Everything that he did circumstantially might be of more value in proving his guilt then forensically. How and can we narrow the range down to, let's just say, a 72-hour period. Let's think it through, because we know she's last seen on a certain date. She speaks to her mother on a certain date, and then he's gone without her on a certain date using her debit card. So wouldn't we be able to narrow the range of, say, when her cell phone, well there were those fake texts in so i think we can narrow the range of the time of death by extrinsic forensic evidence such as phone uh pinging navigation within the for transit the use of the debit cards the sighting of him without her. But speaking of DNA, take a listen to our cut 289. This is the Teton County coroner, Dr. Brent Blue.

Listen. Yes. Hi, doctor. How are you? I am curious if any DNA samples were taken from Gabby's remains. And also, if the body was intact, are you able to tell us the condition of Gabby's remains. And also, if the body was intact, are you able to tell us the condition of Gabby's remains? I can tell you the DNA samples were taken by law enforcement. And all I can tell you about remains is that the body was outside for three to four weeks.

I guarantee you that they can narrow it down to a date more certain than three to four weeks. I guarantee you how that I don't know. I'm a JD, not an MD, but also listen to our cut 288. Still speaking, the Teton County Coroner, Dr. Brent Blute. Listen. Well, the main reason was that we were very exacting in our examination and the detail by which that examination was done. We were waiting for various specialists to come in and help us with this investigation. We were waiting on toxicology to be returned. And it was just a matter of making sure we had everything right. What type of experts were being flown in? What about it, Cheryl McCollum? Who did they fly in to Teton County? Well, Nancy, they had an anthropologist,

a toxicologist, a person that did the complete pathology, and another person that did a complete CAT scan. So they have, you know, lots of really significant folks on this thing. And Joe Scott, what are they looking for with a CAT scan? Yeah, Hey, listen, I've got to say something, Nancy. When he said CAT scan, my jaw hit the ground because for us in the ME world, typically what you do is portable x-rays. They've kicked it up to an entire different level. You know, everybody's saying that this is, you know, out in East Egypt, that they're isolated. Listen, they've got top-line technology. And he said, this is it. He said, her body did not leave our facility. They actually did a CAT scan inside the facility.

So you get a three-dimensional view of the body. It's not just this kind of flat, lack of detail X-ray where things are smudged and it's hard to pick them out. You've seen these in testimony in court. This CAT scan is going to be the difference. And particularly, we're talking about strangulation. What if, in fact, her CAT scan is going to be the difference. And particularly, we're talking about strangulation. What if, in fact, her hyoid was fractured? That's actually something that you can appreciate in detail. If it's still intact, there in the neck, again, we don't know anything about animal activity, but that is a big, big clue. A big clue as to what?

It's a big clue as to, remember what he said, he's going after detail. He consulted all of these, all of these individuals, and he brought technology forward. Not only did he document this with the FBI team that's there, he's actually documenting it through imagery that we don't normally have. You know, forget about photographic imagery and that sort of thing, you can actually appreciate even this far out, you can pick up on things like hemorrhage relative to decomposed body with a CAT scan that you would not necessarily be able to pick up with x-ray. Well, I can tell you this much. As soon as the coroner said three to four weeks, we backdated it. And you know what that is, Cheryl McCollum, August 22 to 29. That's right. And that's something we talked about on your show, ad nauseum. And I will tell you, we, even on your show,

said she was dead by the 28th. He was sitting in bogus tech by the 30th and he was already on the way home. He was well into his trip on the way home because he got home on September 1st. So Nancy, what they're going to do, and what I would do if this was my case, I want to know the last time that she

posted on social media. I want to know from her phone, if there's a cloud, the last photograph she took. She takes extraordinary pictures. So they're going to be able to tell. She last FaceTimed her mom on the 25th. They stopped hearing from her by the 28th. We know it was focused by the 30th. We can get within 48 hours right now. And that's just by using our noggins. And that's what I mean by forensic, extrinsic evidence, not evidence that is gleaned from her body. But I do want to point out, Jackie and I were just looking at her nails.

They're not long. They're about like mine. They're not long, but there's something there, something that would leave a scratch mark. I mean, you wouldn't expect an environmentalist like her, a nature lover like her, to have long nails where she had to go to the salon every week, but she has enough nails to have some skin under them, right? Yeah, she does, Nancy, and this is the thing about it. If everybody at home, particularly those that take care of their

nails really well, if you think about the wooden sticks that people use to push their cuticles back, that's something that we actually use in the morgue to do what's called nail scrapings. You don't have to have long nails to facilitate this. You can go into the bed, you hold a druggist paper beneath it, you capture anything that drops into that fold, and what they're looking for, what they're specifically looking for, are going to be skin cells more than likely. What did those parents not want us to see on Brian Laundrie? Why was he kept away from everyone during the days he was at home? I want you to take a listen to our cut 292.

Again, this is the Teton County Coroner, Dr. Brent Blue. Hi, doctor. This is Terry Parker from WPBF in Palm Beach County, Florida. I'm wondering, you said you were very thorough in this autopsy and examination. Could you give us an example of the type of test and analysis that you performed? This autopsy included a whole body CAT scan, an examination by a forensic pathologist, an examination by a forensic anthropologist, and toxicology evaluation. So it pretty much covered all the bases.

You know it. All eyes are on the Teton County Coroner's Office. You know they did it all. As you heard Joe Scott Morgan analyze, they didn't just do a portable X-ray on her. They brought in CAT scan equipment. They did it right. But what did they learn? I found the coroner to be somewhat coy, but matter of fact as well, stating, I don't have to release this to you.

This is an ongoing investigation. We only have to tell you cause of death, manner of death. Everything else will remain close to the vest. To Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta at AngelaArnoldMD.com. What do you think? We have finally learned the cause of death, not manner, cause. She was strangled, and I guarantee you, it was Manuel. When I say Manuel v. Ligature, I mean Ligature is with a pair of pantyhose or a stocking or a scarf.

Manuel is with your hands. Yes. Go ahead, Doctor. Nancy, this is what I have been saying all along. True. The domestic violence, the intimate partner violence that was going on, he slapped her. That was the last thing we saw. They have him admitting to that.

Strangulation happens over time, okay? The violence becomes more severe. This is what was going on in this situation. My thought is, I don't know, maybe they had another altercation in the van. You think? You think? What about that warden, the female warden,

that said, hey, you need to rethink whether you want to go forward with this guy. It's toxic. Do you remember that, Cheryl? Nancy, I remember, and that's one of the things that makes me so heartbroken. I mean, now you've got complete strangers coming up to her and saying, hey, little girl, this is bad.

You need to get out of this. And now she's dead by manual strangulation? There's two things that happened in that instant. That female officer saying to her, your relationship seems toxic. And during that event, right there on the side of the road, her calling her parents. You know, I mean, in hindsight, you just wish she had turned that fan around and driven home herself. You know, Jackie pointed out something as well.

Let's look back at that Moab August 12 incident, as it's been being called, when finally she revealed that Brian Laundrie grabbed her by the face, and I can just see that hand going down to her neck. I mean, can anybody but me visualize this happening to her? I mean, she's basically told us what happened. And you know what Laundrie said, Nancy? Laundrie said that she lost her balance but was able to scratch his face, just what we were talking about before. So both of them, in some sense, give us some of the clues that we're looking for now can i jump in yes starting on

august 12th what we know from the 12th to september 1st he supposedly flew home to take care of the storage room to save money he has a fit with some waitress at a restaurant over the bill, which is money. He heads to the, you know, phone store, but mama has to buy it because he ain't got no money. He used her debit card, money. He stands on the side of the road talking to that police officer who's treating him as the victim and says, one of them says, well, can you afford a hotel? And he says, no. And his exact quote is, I got very little money. That's the motive.

And when you're looking at domestic violence, again, that is 101 crap. How did Brian Laundrie escape? When did he escape? We know the Laundrie family is coming out on their lawn at two and three o'clock in the morning to empty the trash, to clean up the yard. Did he leave in the night surreptitiously? Is this the norm for them? Take a listen to our cut 274, our friend Athena Jones. New details emerging about the period after Laundrie returned home in Petito's white van without Petito on September 1st and before Laundrie left his parents' home on September 13th, telling them he was headed to the 25,000-acre reserve. Northport, Florida police now revealing they were watching Laundrie before he left,

but were limited in what they could do because he had not been charged with a crime. If you talk to a lot of people who have experience in law enforcement, the guy goes for a walk in the Carleton Reserve. He's not wanted for a crime. I mean, what are we supposed to do? We're going to go tree to tree, tree to tree, following him back through the woods? I mean, you know, it just wasn't there with him. I don't know about that. What do you think about that, Joe Scott Morgan? Yeah. Hey, look, Nancy, I have no idea where this guy is. Could he have slipped out in the middle of the night and been out there? I don't know. I don't think he's out there right now. I think that he could have been cool in his heels out there for a protracted period of time,

but I know that there's connectivity between him and his parents and it would not surprise me at all. If they had not facilitated that trip up to Fort DeSoto to let him slip away into the night. And he's been gone since that period of time. Take a listen to our cut number two, seven, six.

This is the North port police spokesperson. Do you have any idea how he got away? What I'll say is that that is a consistent, something that we're working to figure out. As far as how he got away, I don't even know how to answer that. Well, what I mean is, you know, if he was staying with his parents at the house and I was out there, there were a lot of police outside the house a lot of the time. Why didn't you see him? I didn't see him. And I was out there.

Police were out there. I mean, we've heard stories. Could he have gone out a back door? Could he have, you know, run through your yard? I mean, do you have any idea? Yeah. No, I think certainly what the family has told us is that he drove out to the park and walked out into the woods. I think that is

certainly on the table. You know what, Cheryl McCollum, none of that is fitting together for me. And when it doesn't fit together, that means it's usually false. You want to tell me with all the press and all the cops around that house, nobody saw him leave in a Ford Mustang. According to the police, I mean, according to the family, he didn't walk out. He left in the Mustang. Isn't that what they said? And nobody saw that happen? So they're not magicians.

How did it happen? Is it because it didn't happen? Correct. Didn't happen. So anything that Mama has told us, I can tell you, Sam, take it straight off the table. It did not happen. If she's leaving you somewhere, it's a red herring. I promise you. This is a woman, and I want you to think about it, that sat at a campground making s'mores

while Gabby's mama and daddy and stepdaddy and stepmama called her over 49 times, begging, where is Gabby? Have you seen her? Will you help me? And she ignored them. She ignored their pleas. That is the person we're dealing with. So how did they do it? The last known sighting of Brian Laundrie was when he was at the campgrounds at DeSoto.

Was he sighted at any other time? Did neighbors spot him on September 11? Think back at our timeline. To you, Cheryl McCollum and Wendy Patrick, I believe the last time he was actually spotted may have been, well, according to the parents, it was the 13th. Well, that's what's causing so much confusion is we can't pinpoint a date and put him in a certain place at a certain time. It's going to make it very difficult for us to continue to work backwards. But I agree, this has been one of the most perplexing points in this case, straight from the beginning, almost to the point of

embarrassment to everybody around him and all the law enforcement and the media that were there to hopefully catch a sighting. No one saw anything. It almost makes us second guess the timeline. That would be one of the things that'd be round tabling if I was trying to solve this case right now. Nancy, here's what I'm trying to say. Go ahead. The police were not looking for him until September 11th when she was reported missing. He was gone by then. I'm telling you, They said. So what you're saying is what I have long believed that every time the cops came to the house, remember the word was the parents wouldn't let the cops speak to him? I don't think he was even there. I think he was long gone.

As far as you say, I bet that attorney ain't never met with him. I bet he ain't FaceTimed with him. Brian has been gone since the camping trip. I'm telling you. And that's what I mean by the timeline. If the timeline shifts, then the investigation makes more sense that nobody would have seen him leave because he wasn't there to begin with. Those are the kinds of questions I think we're finally asking. I think that what is it going to take for a murder charge to be handed down? It's going to take some type of DNA, and my bet is it's going to be connected to her fingernails.

That's the only thing I can think of right now. Take a listen to our cut, 2-9-0. This is Teton County Coroner Dr. Brent Blue. In the state of Wyoming, there are four possibilities for a manner of death. They are homicide, suicide, accident, and natural. And those are the four choices. When we do an investigation, we look at the crime scene or the scene of the death, the scene of the body, the condition of the body, and findings of autopsy and toxicology.

And that is how we arrive at the manner of death. So it really depends on lots of different circumstances. I've seen that in arson cases where the medical examiner takes a look at the case and then based on extrinsic circumstances, they determine it was homicide, not natural. For instance, if the purpose removed all their clothing and all their jewelry and all their family photos from the home, then leaves the wife to die in the fire. Could it be accident? No, not with all the jewelry and the photos and the clothing removed and stored in a storage container. No, that makes it homicide.

Medical examiners, coroners are allowed medical examiner today revealing domestic violent homicide. I find that very, very critical. I want you to also take a listen to our cut 291. Again, the coroner, 291. Was there any impact on her body from weather or wild animals in the national park? All I can really comment about that is that her body was outside in the wilderness for three to four weeks. Okay. Granted, that's a setback but joe scott morgan if you are under a tree like i believe she

was even though not buried there is one thing that may stay intact other than evidence inside the body such as semen under her nails would be protected to some degree. Yeah, it would because there's so much force. If folks will imagine fingernails much like a plow on an unplowed field where they're digging into furrows, that's what happens with fingernails when individuals are trying to fight people off. It curls up fingernail. And what happens is there's such force behind that. Think about anybody that has ever fought someone off. You're in just this ferocious state where you're trying to get the individual off of you. Anything you can do just to save your life,

she's putting force behind it. And so the fingernail acts like a little hood that the skin and the tissue deposits under. So yeah, it's very difficult to kind of root that out. It's not like if you have skin cells that are laying on top of a body that aren't embedded, say, for instance, that can be blown away. It can be washed away. It can be compromised by heat, not with the fingernails. It's very, very significant that they're looking into this. That's going to go to the trace evidence section, Nancy, at the FBI. They're going to take a real close look at those nail scrapings.

But, Joe Scott, I would put someone like you on the stand if I were the prosecutor to say how long would that DNA last under the nails? Because remember, supposedly she scratched him in Moab. So would that then be possible that it was still under the nails from that incident or would have been fresh because of the strangulation? I got to tell you, there's another piece to this. I'm glad you said something, Wendy. Another question that was asked. One of these reporters actually had the presence of mind to say, hey, Doc, have you seen any evidence of previous injuries, healing injuries, that sort of thing? And he wouldn't comment on that. He said that he can't comment on that. And that's something that I've held forward on. I'm wondering, I'm wondering if, look, going back to Mac's statement, if you will go out and you will slap around a 95 pound woman in the middle of the street in public view, if you'll do that, what will you do in private? Okay. How long has this abuse been going on? You know, and you were the first one that I knew of, Joe Scott, to point out those resolving bruises on her back that you spotted when she was sand surfing.

Do you remember that? Those photos that she had posted? And they're very, very plain to see. Guys, take a look at our cut 294, our friends at WFLA. 294. This is the news statement just into the newsroom, courtesy of our colleague investigator Masa Saidi. It says, quote, from Stephen Bertolino, Gabby Petito's death at such a young age is a tragedy. While Brian Laundrie is currently charged with the unauthorized use of a debit card

belonging to Gabby, Brian is only considered a person of interest in relation to Gabby Petito's demise. At this time, Brian is still missing. When he is located, we will address the pending fraud charges against him, end quote. That is the new statement, courtesy of Masa Saidi from demise at this time Brian is still missing when he is located we will address the pending fraud charges against him end quote that is the new statement a courtesy of Masa Saidi from Stephen Bertolino what jumped out to me JB is that this statement acknowledges that he is accused of fraud using Gabby's card which the charging document did not say right um the family attorney on Dr Phil did say they believed it was her card here is the attorney for the laundry family acknowledging that he is charged with unauthorized access to her bank account which i think is significant Even now that the cause of death has been determined to be strangulation,

once again, the family of Brian Laundrie, along with their lawyer, is giving some innocuous response about the debit card, how he's only a person of interest in the debit card. He's only a suspect. He's only charged with the debit card, how he's only a person of interest in the debit card. He's only a suspect. He's only charged with the debit card. As if they want me to look there and not at the dead body. What is that, Dr. Angie Arnold? Well, and also the dead body that was found next to the van that they were traveling in.

And I have a question, Nancy. You know, this may not be the first time he's tried to strangle her. Domestic abusers will often strangle their partner in order to gain control over them, but they don't always kill them when they do that, okay? And I'm wondering if the coroner is looking for signs of previous strangulation by this guy. Because oftentimes it's very unnoticeable from the outside. If someone has been strangled, they can develop a hoarse voice and some different things like that. But I just wonder if they're looking for other signs of previous strangulation too. Guys, we've got Gabby alive on August 27

with Brian Laundrie at the Mary Piglet restaurant. Remember that? They were spotted together on August 27, alive. All right, so that's narrowing my timeline right there. But he's home on 9-1. We've got it narrowed now between 8-27 and 9-1. And what about the two days he was traveling? That would be the 31st and the 30th.

So now we've narrowed it even more. What about that, Cheryl? I'm telling you, she was dead by the 28th. I believe it took him almost three days to get home. Nancy, that's a long trip. He was already fatigued. He was freaked out. He had no money. He had no food. He hadn't slept the night before because he's having to dispose of her. So it would have taken him a lot longer to get all the way to Florida

from Wyoming. So you believe she's dead on August 28. Now, what do we have to do? How do we narrow the time of death, Joe Scott Morgan? How can we forensically do that with her body so I can place him with her on that date? Yeah, something that Corner mentioned very specifically, Nancy, and I'm glad that he brought this up. We do know that a forensic anthropologist was involved, and it sounds like they were present at the morgue. That's essential.

But also, he said that samples had been taken by the FBI and had been sent to the forensic entomologist. That's the guy, the gal that studies the bugs and the progression. And also something's coming up, forensic botany perhaps, and that's the growth of the little plants, the little seedlings. All of those things marry up on a timeline and listen when it comes to bugs do you know that bugs actually have manners they only show up after other species have gone so we can check a progression like maggot husk and that sort of thing how are these things developing they only show up in specific time they kind of march along so that's one of the ways they're going to do this, Nancy. Okay, you know what, just got the rest of us, we know what you're talking about, but you've got to break it down in regular people talk. For instance, we find Gabby's body and we find on her body, let's just say blowflies.

All right. What would that tell you? Break it down to real examples not just theoretical words or latin phrases okay what the blow flies are looking for and they're one of the first species to show up in any kind of case like this where a body is outdoors they're looking for warm moist areas where they can lay their eggs and that that is essential. That's when the cycle actually begins. The eggs are deposited and then they take a very specific time to develop.

And then when they develop, you'll have maggot that come to life. They burst through out of these eggs and there I'm not going to go into the specific details of where they are, but as they mature, those little husks that they develop crack open. They go through various stages.

And then a new crop of blowflies present. And then after that, they come back and they lay more eggs in that specific area, Nancy. And how is that important? Well, there's a specific time of maturation. It's just like a timeline. Yes, it is. It specifically is you couple that with the little sprouts of plants that are growing up in that area. And if they took their time at the scene, which I think they did, they collected all of this data and it's gone to probably Quantico.

So you're saying sprouts and growth under her body? Yes, I think that there could be growth beneath, and it all depends on the little seedlings. And a lot of this is dependent upon the time of year. They're going to be looking at these things because certain things only appear at specific times of the year. You have to know very specific details about the geography in which you find these bodies. properly analyze the etymology angle of Gabby Petito's body, I will be able to determine how long she has been there based on that etymologic timeline. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And that would imply, and again, this is very broad, but that's how we kind of narrow things down. Did a body come from another geographic location or did the body succumb there?

Also, we look at these things like with soil. You know, there's been a lot of questions about, well, did she die there? Well, if you're in another location that has different kinds of soil and you find that on the body, you know that soil is not associated with that. That's why in forensics, trace evidence is so very important. And that covers, you know know the gamut relative to nails down to this cheryl and everybody jump in the the the van her transit is parked here then there's some grass right then there's a creek then there's a log and there's her body it's right there by where the where he is Parker are. Yeah.

All of that is true. Everything that Joe Scott said was fabulous. But I'm going to use a little horse sense here for you. They're going to ping his cell phone. They're going to look at where he first bought gasoline with our debit card, and they're going to backtrack the time it would have taken him to drive there, even if he was driving 100 miles an hour. Then they're going to see when did he first call home. Because remember, Mama changed the number of people that were going to go camping before he got home.

So there was some communication. So they're going to be able to tell every time he stopped to eat, every time he got gasoline, the amount of hours it took him to get home, and they're going to be able to double back and say he left at approximately this time, which means now she was killed between here and here. As soon as he turned his cell phone on, if he had it off for any period of time, as soon as hers stopped working and where it stopped for the last time. Because remember, when he sent that bogus text on the 30th, he was already in route home. So if he sent that home from New Mexico, for example.

I cannot wait to get the ping of where that phone was when he sent the text, no cell service in Yosemite. I mean, for all I know, it was in Alabama. No cell service in Yosemite that one thing that one ping is going to tell us so much and all I can do right now is think about forensic etymology and Gabby's fingernails we wait as the evidence unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.