Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL! Handwriting experts say Tiger King star Carole Baskin’s missing hubby’s signature was 'traced'

Episode Date: May 20, 2020

The signatures on Don Lewis' power of attorney and will appear to be traced according to at least two handwriting experts. Multimillionaire Lewis, Carole Baskin's husband, vanished without a trace in the summer of 1997. He was declared legally dead in 2002, with Baskin inheriting his estate.Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss: Joseph Fritz - Attorney for Don Lewis  Tom Vastrick -Forensic document examiner/handwriting expert Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist Sheryl McCollum - Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder Levi Page - Investigative Reporter, CrimeOnline Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. At a time when we are all pulling together to fight coronavirus, COVID-19, I have something for you. An all-free e-chapter on coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a coronavirus crime victim. From door-to-door sales of fake cures and tests, vaccines. That's not real. To robocalls that are trying to scam you. To fake ads.

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Goodbye, friend. Keep the faith. By now, there's nobody left in the United States that hasn't heard of Tiger King, Joe Exotic, not his real name, who is now sitting behind bars for death threats on a competitor, Carole Baskin. But with all of the spotlight seemingly in her favor during the Tiger King Joe Exotic trial where he was found guilty, that spotlight may have turned into an unwanted spotlight in the last hours. It is alleged via experts that the signature of Tiger King star Carole Baskin's husband on his will is forged. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It is alleged that the signature of Tiger King star, Carole Baskin's husband on his will is forged. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You know what? You could probably fix that by re-executing the will, but Don Lewis, her husband, is long gone. I can tell you this. He didn't just disappear. He didn't take a hike. He didn't walk off into the sunset. He's dead. Take a listen to this.

What a story. It's so wild it must not be true. That's the first thing people think. Oh, come wild, it must not be true. That's the first thing people think. Oh, come on, that can't be true. It's 20 years ago. Cold case 20-year-old murders don't get solved. Well, it all starts, you know, Carol Baskin. Carol Baskin, who was Carol Lewis at the time, was married to Don Lewis. Oh, good. I did see Don Lewis about maybe a month or so before he disappeared, and he did mention to me that he

felt his life was in danger. There is so many strange twists in that story. You would have to write books, volumes of the stuff that went wrong there, the lies that are there. All the circumstantial evidence, somebody did something too dumb. There's a lot of stories about Carol having some finger in it, but nobody can prove it. You're hearing from Netflix special on Joe Exotic, including Joe Exotic himself, Joe Maldonado, passage. What is the truth?

Now, you know you got to take the Netflix documentary with a box of salt, not a pinch, because you, not that it's Netflix's fault, but the people that are speaking have never been cross-examined. We don't know the other side of their story, but with me now to break it down and put it all back together again as best as we can at this juncture is a special guest, longtime lawyer and friend of Carol Baskin's missing husband, Don Lewis, Joseph Fritz, Tom Vastrick, the forensic document examiner, handwriting expert who has very carefully examined the will and all the documents. Karen Stark, New York psychologist, joining us today.

You can find her at KarenStark.com. Director of the Cold Case Research Institute, crime scene expert, Cheryl McCollum. And CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Levi Page. Now, you were just hearing from the documentary Netflix about Tiger King. Okay, Tiger King is in jail right now for he belongs for death threats, very public death threats, on Carole Baskin. But all that attention heaped on Tiger King that Carole Baskin herself whipped up is now directed to her.

Now, Cheryl McCollum, director of Cold Case Research Institute, that's quite a turn of events, isn't it? That first she wanted the attention on exotic, but now that same spotlight's on her and it ain't pretty. It ain't pretty and it ain't going away, Nancy. That spotlight's heating this thing up. You know, I'm finding more about the zoo industry than I ever wanted to know. Take a listen to this. I don't believe she ever appeared overwhelmingly heartbroken that her husband was missing. I don't know if it's because he had another life with a mistress down in Costa Rica, if she knew this marriage was coming to an end. But again, my wife is my world.

If it was yesterday, today, or 20 years from now, I would dedicate my life. I would post rewards everywhere. There would be signs everywhere. My new life's work would be trying to find my wife. This never happened. No, it never did happen. You were hearing Sheriff Chad Chronister telling me about what he observed and what was observed by others at the time Don Lewis goes missing. Straight out to special guest joining us, attorney and longtime confidant of Don Lewis, who I believe is dead, Joseph Fritz. Joseph Fritz, I'm going to go back

to the time that he goes missing, but what do you make of the new bombshell that this document, the will, is absolutely, no doubt about it, forged? I think I've got Joseph Fritz with me me is he still up or is the satellite dropped jay you there okay let me know when we get him back in the meantime i'll circle to tom vastrick forensic document examiner handwriting expert same question to you tom what do you make of it well in conducting the examination of the durable family power of attorney and the will, both of which were created on November 21 in 1996, I was struck by the uncanny similarity between each set of signatures, not only Don Lewis's signatures, but the two witness signatures and the notary signatures. When I cross-compared each of those sets of signatures, they were just ridiculously similar to each other. It wasn't an

exact replication, because if you have exact replication, what that means, it's just a copy of one signature. But it was nearly exact replication to the extent that I was very confidently able to opine that what I was dealing with, with at least Mr. Lewis's signature, was that these signatures were traced. from a marriage record that had been executed and filed with the county five years before the execution of the will and the power of attorney. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Guys, with me is handwriting expert Thomas Vastrick, and he says the will signatures and power of attorney documents related to Don Lewis, the long-missing husband of Carol Baskin, are forged. Now, let me understand what you're saying. Typically, I think handwriting experts, and I've direct and cross-examined quite a few of them, they like it when your signature matches

your last known signature. But you're telling me that all the signatures had basically been forged, not just Don Lewis, like the witness, the notary, everybody's was forged? Well, understand as a document examiner, I don't use the word forged because that's a legal term, but it's my opinion that these signatures are traced. Traced. Okay, I'm going to follow your example and say traced. Traced off the marriage document? For Don Lewis, yes.

I do not have the source document for either the notary or the two other witnesses, so I have to leave open the possibility that of each set of signatures there were three uh three signatures of each of the uh the notary and the two witnesses uh since i do not have the model signature from anyone else other than lewis all i can say at this point is at least two of them were traced one of them could be genuine theoretically theoretically. Which ones were traced, Tom? Well, I can't say for a fact until such time as I locate a model signature for them. But with Mr. Lewis, we have found the model signature. Now, you told the Clarion Ledger that Don Lewis's signature was traced on the will, the power of attorney as well.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, if the signature of Don Lewis was traced, Carol Baskin is in a whole world of trouble. Now, handwriting experts can disagree. So maybe she can find a handwriting expert that will say something entirely different. In the meantime, listen to this. The investigation indicated Carol had left Wildlife on Easy Street to drive to a nearby store named Albertson's to pick up some milk byproducts for the cats. This is at three o'clock in the morning. Her car broke down, and Carol ran into her brother, who was accompanied by another deputy. The second deputy gave her a ride back to her home. After that, Carol indicated the last time that she saw her husband was just several hours later and he was never seen again and i

don't know but i would have hoped that the detectives would have pursued that and made sure that there was nothing out of the ordinary about that maybe if you have a sheriff that's in there that's saying you know hey this guy's kind of crazy and you know dementia and he does this all the time he's probably in you know maybe the sheriff's kind of crazy and you know dementia and he does this all the time he's probably in you know maybe the sheriff's department would drag their feet at that point and be like well you know let's just wait and see where it goes guys you're taking you're hearing the movements of carol baskin the night that don lewis seemingly vanished off the face of the earth or did he now new allegations are being raised because in the last

hours a handwriting expert says there's no doubt about it in his mind don lewis carol baskin's missing husband signature was traced on the will so what about the witness that says they saw him sign the will guess what that witness has recanted and says no they did not saw him sign the will. Guess what? That witness has recanted and says, no, they did not witness him signing the will. That in itself is a problem. And why is Carol Baskin out getting tiger milk at 3 a.m. in the morning when Don Lewis goes missing? To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter,

Levi, start at the beginning. Let's start with him going missing. To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Levi, I start at the beginning. Let's start with him going missing. What can you tell me? So Carol Baskin said the last time that she saw her husband, Don Lewis, was 23 years ago, August 18th, 1997. And she said that the last thing that he said to her was that he was leaving early, early, early the next morning to transport cars to Costa Rica. He visited there often, and he was reported missing August 19, 1997. abandoned at the airport 40 miles away from the Big Cat Sanctuary, and the keys were in the floorboard, and his briefcase was found inside. You know, I spoke in depth with people at that airport, and they indicate that it's so small they would definitely have seen Don Lewis pulling in.

Guys, we're talking about a bombshell allegation made in the last hours that the will signed by Carol Baskin's missing husband, Don Lewis, was forged. Straight out to Cheryl McCollum, director of Cold Case Research Institute, weigh in. Nancy, my issue is the pre and post behavior of Carol Baskin. So if she went to that store at 3 a.m., how many times prior had she ever done that? I want to know that. The second thing, you and I are in a career, Nancy, where people come to us if anything criminally has gone on with a loved one in their family. Even Chucky Malk, his mama reached out to your brother who immediately came to you. I mean, they just do that. I want to know why her brother has not been front and center on this thing.

He didn't put out any posters. He didn't become the family spokesperson. He didn't go to the sheriff and say, dude, we've got to find my brother-in-law. He's been virtually MIA that I can find. So forget Carol not searching and not putting up posters and not offering a reward. The lawman in the family didn't do it either. Back to forensic document examiner and handwriting expert Tom Vastrick. Tom, how did you get involved in the case?

I was asked to conduct an examination for a couple different newspapers, one in Tampa and one in Jackson, Mississippi. And it was the investigative reporters that submitted the documentation to me for examination. And what documents were you examining? Well, in addition to the will, the durable power attorney, I was provided the marriage record form. I was provided a number of different notarized documents, notarization documents from the notary and about 20 documents with Mr. Lewis's signature on them. Joining me now, I think we've managed to get a satellite up, is a longtime friend and lawyer for missing husband Don Lewis, Joseph Fritz.

Joseph Fritz, thank you for being with us. I got a question for you. Have you heard the latest bombshell that according to at least one handwriting expert, that will was traced? That signature is not don lewis's well first i want to correct something it's not a will it's a power of attorney power of attorney handles your affairs while you're alive it dies with the person only a testamentary trust or a will can handle it after he is saying actually that the will and the power of attorney were both traced off the marriage record. I don't much care about the will.

Uh-huh. I don't care about that. She managed to move their money and assets and property via the power of attorney, not the will. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're talking lawyer talk talk regular people talk you're saying that the power of attorney is what carol baskin according to you used to move all the money and assets not the will had to because he wasn't declared dead for five years later ah yes, yes. Brilliant. Yes.

Absolutely. So. Let me tell you. Let me point out something else. Yeah. Cheryl certifies that that's her signature on the power of attorney. Because she used that power of attorney to transfer all of her assets. Okay.

Hold on. Let me interpret what you're saying as a lawyer. So, Don Lewis goes missing, but even though she is the now sole beneficiary of all of his money, if he dies or quote disappears, that's a funny clause in a will, all the money is going to go to her. But until he is declared dead, which takes five years in that jurisdiction, she can't do anything under the will, but under a power of attorney, which gives somebody control over your state when you're incapacitated or missing the power of attorney can move all your money any way they want to. Now I get why you don't care about the

will that threw me for a loop just for a moment, but now I get it. Okay, let me rephrase my question. What do you make of it, Joseph Fritz, longtime attorney and confidant of Don Lewis, that at least one handwriting expert says the power of attorney and will were traced off the marriage document? Somebody sat in my office

and had the pictures and was able to lay one over the other on their cell phone, and they are a perfect match. Even I agree with that. I believe it was traced. I've heard several handwriting. I think there's as many as six handwriting experts now. I think it's up to six.

One of them is the one that did the Ted Kaczynski Unabomber case. Wow. That's not shabby. No, no, no, no. That's high, high, high, high, high. You know, the VJ and that thing. That's a high paid expert right there. Hey, Joseph Fritz, have you ever in court, because I have, brought on a handwriting expert?

Once. Really? Yep. Because I can't find many lawyers that have done it. So I always like to, you know, brag that I have done it many times, but my first one was a bank robbery note. Lucky for me, the bank robber was also dyslexic, so he would flip letters,

and he did the same thing in the bank robbery note that he did in his handwriting exemplar. So that was very persuasive. But that's where I learned about how you make your A and your B and how you dot your I and literally cross your T. What case did you have where you used a handwriting expert? Believe it or not, I think it was in a bankruptcy adversary proceeding. Oh, I do believe it. People will lie about money. And that's what I think we may have here.

So you don't expect a perfect likeness for every signature. There should be some derivation and spacing. There is. But what did you observe when you put one over the other, Joseph Ritz? Identical. Just identical. Perfect match. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace we are talking about the disappearance and as joseph fritz and i believe death of don lewis now we have one handwriting expert who has actually looked at the documents, very well respected in his profession, Tom Vastrick. And he says it was traced. That's the way what we call forged. All right. If they were forged, Joseph Fritz, what does that mean? Well, it means that she wrongfully,

it has to at least be killed to do that, because she says that that's her signature. She is what we would call stopped from denying it because she used that power of attorney to transfer properties, remove monies, cash CDs, any of the things she had to do. She used it and said, that's me. I believe that it was a forgery from what I've seen. I believe the statute of limitations has run 21 years ago. Thank you, Sheriff's Department. Well, the statute on forgery has run, but there's a lot bigger kettle of fish brewing than the forgery, the alleged forgery. Of course there is. Of course there is.

And there's no statute, There's no limitation on that. But my point is, I was interviewed after Tiger came by our sheriff's department said that they had a handwriting expert too when you deal with a murder detective or homicide detective information is a one-way street he never told me what their what their handwriting guy said but he said they had examined several documents quite a few documents did you ask him yes i did i just got i got a brick wall information is a one-way street with a detective. You know that. You know who is that way? The feds.

And I was a fed myself before I became a violent crime prosecutor. You try to get the feds to tell you anything, forget about it. Guys, now another development, if you can imagine that, in the case of Tiger King, Joe Exotic, and Carol Baskin. More than one handwriting expert has come forward to say Don Lewis's will and power of attorney were traced. Traced over. Like when you were in grammar school or high school and you wanted to sign your parents' name to something, hold it up to the window and trace it over. Not that I would ever do that.

But that's what we're talking about. And regular people talk forged. Forged would be the legal term. But what about all of those witnesses, those witnesses that claim they were there when the will was signed? Could you please play cut 11? Take a listen to what Sheriff Chad Chronister tells me. One of the individuals who came forward and said that she witnessed all the signatures, fast forward from 1997 to 2006, she came forward, said she felt pressured at the time to say that it was signed by everyone. And then she wanted to recant her story and said she did not witness the signatures. Well, who pressured her to write, to sign that she saw Don Lewis sign his will?

Who pressured her, according to her? Well, there's one person that's not here any longer. So I think we could all deduct the fact that it had to be Carol. And I think she says that in her statement. I'm pretty confident. She says that she felt to prove her allegiance to Carol, that she felt pressured into saying that she witnessed those signatures. And again, as time goes forward, she feels more comfortable, wants to get off her chest, calls investigators with our office and says, hey, listen, I have to tell you, I didn't witness that will being signed.

That is a huge bombshell that a witness comes forward, Cheryl McCollum. You're the Cold Case Research Institute director on a will. When the witness to the will comes forward and goes, I really didn't see what I said I saw. That's huge, Cheryl McCollum. That is tremendous. And not just that, Nancy. Every single person that watched that series, Tiger King, saw firsthand when Carole Baskin wants to put on a full court press. You want to talk about pressure. She comes after you with everything she got. She brings other nonprofits in. She starts creating ways to change laws to come after you.

She makes comments in newspapers. She does all of this before you ever even meet her. You know, I'm thinking back, and I mean, talking about taking somebody's comment with a box of salt. How about a pound of salt to everything Joe Exotic says? Don't get mad at me, but that man lies every time his lips move. So I can't really put any credence in what he says. But now that handwriting experts are coming forward, now that we know at least one witness is saying I did not witness the

will being signed this is changing the landscape of this case drastically I've been withholding judgment on Carole Baskin because it's hard to have a clear head when all you're hearing is hype well you don't know the real facts, but I keep going back to when he disappeared. Do you remember? Hey, let's hear cut 18. There was never any reward posted for his disappearance. Was there ever an online plea or a televised plea to help find him by carol again again it's my understanding there was never any type of overt action taken to try to find out where her husband was do you know sheriff chronister if she came to the sheriff's office day in day out week by, trying to find out what's the latest in my husband's disappearance?

I do know that, and the answer is no. That never happened. Even as recent as 2011 was the last communication that we had for her, and that's when we asked her to come in to take a polygraph, and she declined, said it wouldn't vindicate her of any type of, in any way, shape, or form, and at the same time, it wouldn't prohibit the sheriff's office from taking future criminal actions against her. So she declined to take a polygraph. Not only does Tom Vastrick, forensic document examiner, handwriting expert say the will, the power of attorney was traced.

Translation, forged. Another handwriting expert, Willa Smith, concurs and says the signature was, quote, the product of tracing. And it goes on and on. Now, six experts. To Joseph Fritz, friend and longtime lawyer for Don Lewis, which another piece of, listen to this Jackie, circumstantial evidence. Fritz has been his lawyer and his friend for 20 plus years, but he doesn't go to Fritz to get his will drawn up. I mean, Fritz probably has one, SOP, standard operating procedure will, printed out of the computer and sign it. Bam. I find that very, very odd that he didn't go to Fritz to write up his will. So, Joseph Fritz, do you remember when you heard Don Lewis was missing?

Yeah, from Anne McQueen. And what first crossed your mind when you learned he was gone? Ball play. And what first crossed your mind when you learned he was gone? You know, that's what people, friends, relatives of murder victims say all the time. When the person goes missing, they go, oh, they're not missing. They're dead. I can tell you that right now. And that's not just a jump in the gun. That's based on years of observation.

So at this juncture, Joseph Fritz, when you look back on the time around when Don Lewis goes missing, do you remember how Carol Baskin went out that night at 3 a.m. for tiger milk? And then her car broke down and she had a witness from the sheriff's department come help her. And it was therefore documented every which way that she was on her own, out and about at the time he disappeared. Do you remember that? I've heard that, yeah, but I don't remember that I didn't see it. Do you remember hearing about his vehicle being found at the airport with his briefcase and his keys in it? I do. Would he have ever done that? He could be a little scatterbrained, but he was together.

He might have left his keys somewhere or something, but he wouldn't leave a van and a briefcase and papers and keys and everything. He wouldn't do it. What, if anything, can be done? We know that the statute of limitations, which says a criminal case can only be brought for X number of years after the crime on forgery, on any alleged forgery, because I'm sure Carol Baskin denies this. What do we do now, Fritz? Somewhere in the course of time, somebody needs to call this what it is, a murder investigation. It's not even classified as that as last I heard.

How hard is that? Go ahead. The sheriff can flip a switch and it's a murder investigation. It's not hard at all. You don't need to open something. I mean, it's open. It's just kind of idling, kind of in neutral. But the engine is running.

Just put it in gear. Cheryl McCollum, how hard would it be? It's not hard at all, and I honestly believe that's being done right now. I believe that the Sheriff's Department is working it to see what they can piece together. I know for a fact they've re-interviewed people, and I think this case is kind of in overdrive right this minute because, Nancy, here's one of the most important things to me. Carol Baskin supposedly went and picked that van up and drove it home, drive right this minute because nancy here's one of the most important things to me carol

baskin supposedly went and picked that van up and drove it home yet when that van was processed there was no fingerprints in it none well hers should have been in it crime stories with nancy grace guys take a listen to our cut 15 what chronister says about the disappearance of don lewis we have a little window there uh when his disappearance occurred from the day, almost two days that it took for her to report him and a couple of days that people had besides her that hadn't seen him. You have a few days in there that that I believe that's when that's when he was killed. So we've got about a four hour, excuse me me a four day window where he could have been killed nobody saw him at big cat no one no banker no friend no lawyer nobody saw him for about two days before he

went to costa rica that's it no no telephone calls, no business transactions. So, again, I think that these are more details that only make this death more suspicious and only lead us to believe that, again, it was a homicide. You know, Karen Stark with me, New York psychologist, joining us at karenstark.com. Karen, I've just been thinking a lot about the witness that now comes forward claiming that she did not witness Don Lewis sign the will, that she was pressured into it. You know, I think that, you know, according to Freud, your personality is formed by the time you're four. And the twins told me the other day that one of their classmates texted them that they wanted the answers because they both made A's in math and John David made a 99.8.

They wanted the twins to give them answers to the final exam. They said no. And these were some of their good little friends. And they both said no, don't worry, I've looked at their texts to make sure they're telling me the truth. How do you suddenly one day just flick a switch and decide you're going to do the wrong thing? And something as important as a multi-million dollar estate like Don Lewis's with so much riding on it.

What kind of coercion would make you just go, sure, I'll fake it? Well, Nancy, this sounds to me very self-serving. The coercion I would expect or maybe smite had to do with the money and how much money she might have been getting. But what's interesting is that this witness didn't seem to come forward until everyone started to question what happened to him. And they questioned what happened to him because of the success of the documentary. All of a sudden there was this glaring gap. This man, he disappeared. How did he disappear?

What became of him? And so this witness, I'm assuming, just decided, you know what, I'm gonna get in a lot of trouble. I better come forward. And I think that's what happened. I see what you're saying. It's not a sudden fit of veracity or suddenly you take off your devil's horns and put on a halo. Right. You think, okay, he's missing. He was killed for money, maybe, and I'm the one that witnessed the wheel.

I better cough up. Now, we'll listen to what the sheriff has to say about this. Do you believe, Sheriff Chronister, that Don Lewis's will was forged? I 100% believe his will was forged. A couple different reasons. One, someone who said they witnessed at the time at the time the signatures recants her story. And again, I think the biggest part is the is the first time ever hearing that someone put a disappearance clause to make sure that they received the full benefit, full benefits of an executed will. Guys, you're hearing what Chronister says if he thinks the will was forged. And now what did you say, Joseph Fritz, that six handwriting experts have said it was traced?

I believe it's up to six. And now I've heard a body language expert chime in, too, with the pictures of her. Again, Chronister just made the same thing about the will, the will, the will. Quit talking about the will. The will never got probated. It was never a fraud. It never went to court because he died owning nothing because everything had been transferred with the power of attorney. I don't care about the will.

Okay, then let's talk about the power of attorney. How about that? Okay. So what do we do now, Fritz? What, if anything, can we do now? Well, the statute of limitations criminally has run. Civilly it has run. They're both five years on written, well, five years on a felony and five years on a civil suit to recover the money for the estate.

The will is obviously no good. I wouldn't probate it. I wouldn't put it in the probate court because everybody says it's forged. Okay, I believe it. What you have to do is plot on and get the murder indictment. Well, here's the thing. Without a body, how is that going to happen? Cheryl McCollum, Director of Cold Case Research Institute. Well, Nancy, you and I both know there's some really extraordinary people that have had great success with no body cases. What you're going to do is you're going to build this thing up as a murder investigation,

and you're going to combine every single piece of this puzzle. And I like the fact they have the will and the power of attorney. Not how she might have used them, but just showing her mind. If his body's recovered, I've got the will. If it's not, I've got the power of attorney. Either way, game on for her. She covered her basis. So you look at like what you're doing and the evidence that you're bringing out. You've got people like Jerry Mitchell and Ripper Jack and Nosy Wren. They're doing some incredible things online, just like Don't F with Cats. Honey, this is Don't F with Bigger Cats. People are putting

this thing together and they're putting all kinds of pieces of this puzzle right out in front of god's country a big a big piece of this puzzle is ann mcqueen who is don lewis's executive assistant i want you to take a listen to what she says on netflix i got a phone call stating that the office alarm had gone off and Carol was there. Her and Kenny Farr had cut the locks on the gate, cut the locks on the office. Cut the power to the trailer, cut the water, cut the sewer. The cops come because the alarm went off. Ann McQueen come up because that's that's her office you know I mean

that's she's been here for years there were two wills and there were two power attorneys in my office in a box underneath my desk but whatever paperwork or whatever they needed there was nothing that the cops could do to stop the wife taking anything. The will and the power of attorney, they were all taken out of the office that day. I was the executor for both of their wills. I was the power of attorney for both of them. Who was the power of attorney on the new documents Carol produced? Not me.

So to Joseph Fritz, longtime friend and lawyer for Don Lewis, Carol Baskin's missing husband, let me understand what McQueen is saying. This is Don Lewis's longtime, 20-plus years, executive assistant, that she had been the executor on the power of attorney and the will. There were two copies of them in a box under her desk. She gets a call because the alarm went off, goes to her office. This is after Lewis disappears. She gets to her office and there is Carol Baskin. The will and the power of attorney is gone. And now there's a new will and power of attorney where she and McQueen is no longer the executor, is now Carol Baskin.

Do I have the chronology right? I'm sure you do. Dang. Okay, Levi Page, what else can you tell me about the investigation now? Well, Nancy, this investigation has been reopened. The sheriff says that he gets six tips a day about this case, all thanks to the Netflix series Tiger King. And the more that this case is in the public, the more tips he's going to get.

This is not slowing down anytime soon. To you, Joseph Fritz, what do you think it's going to take for a murder investigation and a murder case to move forward? I've always said that somebody has to stub their toe legally and want to get out of jail free card and spill the beans on what exactly happened. And I've heard the sheriff say that, you know, all deals are on the table. So that's what I think is going to break the case. Who would be in the position to know all that, Joseph? To know what?

To know any of the details that would be probative in a murder case beside Baskin. The sheriff has said multiple people were involved. I believe as he does. And I believe that one did the murder, one conspired to do a murder. Your contract hit as far as I'm concerned. There's all sorts of people around there that, you know, that ever could have information. And to you, Tom Vastrick, forensic document examiner, handwriting expert,

do you have any doubt in your mind that that power of attorney and that will the signature of Don Lewis was traced no I don't have any doubt in my mind at all and I'd also want to bring up something you've mentioned that one of the witnesses is recanted and I want to remind you there's also a second witness and a notary I would be interested in what they have to say. Oh, brilliant. You're so right, Tom Vastrick. And could you tell me one more time? I mean, I'm just a JD. I'm not a handwriting expert. Why are you convinced that Lewis's signature was traced? It is far, far too similar with each other. Every time you sign your name, there's a level of variation from one signature to the next,

and these are just way, way too similar. I did not find this a difficult determination at all. So it was easy? Nothing's ever easy in our field, but it's not difficult. You know, you said something really interesting just then. You said that there's a slight derivation every time you sign your signature. What derivation? What's different? Well, you're talking about the neuromuscular control of a human, you can't repeat that process of complication like that with exact precise replication. So there's going to be that natural level of variation in virtually anything that a human does. And it shows itself in its handwriting through what we call natural variation. So when you get multiple signatures that have the

level of similarity that you have here, it tells us that this is not normal natural writing. Something is amiss. Now, if it was exact replication, that would tell me what I'm dealing with is copies of the same signature, because that's the only way that can happen, like with a rubber stamp or scanning it onto a computer and having it artificially placed onto a document but when you get this level of consistency between multiple signatures but still just that little bit of differences one signature to another that is a characteristic tracing and really nothing else. All right, Sheriff Chronister, it's in your court. I did ask a question if I can. Yes, jump in. Yeah, the handwriting folks

have all reached the conclusion that it was traced. I want to know, has anybody actually examined the originals rather than copies? Because I hear a lot about indentation and pressure on the paper that you can't pick up from copies but you can from originals. Where's the original and who examined it? What about it, Vastrick? I don't know who has the original. Well, Nancy, let's just talk about the real world. She gave his guns away. She had his phone shut off. Well, I can tell you this much. If the originals and the copies under Anne McQueen's desk disappeared, God only knows where this will really is, because in court you would probably need, you know this, the highest and best, which means the original.

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.