Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL: Hubby Chad Daybell, Cult Mom Lori Vallow charged with THREE counts of murder

Episode Date: May 26, 2021

Lori Vallow and husband Chad Daybell face new charges in the deaths of Vallow’s two children and Daybell’s wife Tammy Daybell. 16-year-old Tylee Ryan and 7-year-old JJ Vallow's bodies were found in Daybell’s backyard in June 2020. Daybell is also facing first-degree murder in the death of his wife Tammy Daybell, who he claimed died in her sleep in October 2019, and declined an autopsy. Both Daybell and Vallow are charged with conspiracy to commit first-degree murder in Tammy’s death.Joining Nancy Grace today: Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney Dr. Shari Schwartz, Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy), www.panthermitigation.com, Twitter: https://twitter.com/TrialDoc, Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology" Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com Jeff Cortese - Former FBI Special Agent, www.jeffcortese.com  Nate Eaton - News Director, EastIdahoNews.com Twitter: @NateNewsNow, Instagram: @n.eaton - Instagram Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Bombshell right now. In the last hours, cult mom Lori Vallow and her brand new husband, number four, I think, have been indicted, formally charged with murder. And I don't mean just the murder of Lori Vallow's two children, J.J. and Tylee. They finally have gotten enough evidence, a grand jury along with detectives and others, to rope Lori Vallow and hubby Chad Daybell in on the death, now we know murder, of his previously completely healthy wife, Tammy Daybell, who reportedly dies in her sleep of natural causes.

Now, all of us got a whiff of something foul when Chad Daybell married Lori Vallow just a few days after his wife was buried. That's not right, but that a murder case does not make. So what does the state have? Again, bombshell. Cult mom Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell now indicted, formally charged by a grand jury for murder. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Let's kick it off with a reading of the indictment by the state. Listen.

Members of the grand jury deliberated and determined there is probable cause to believe the Daybells willfully and knowingly conspired to January 15th of 2020 in the county of Fremont, state of Idaho, and elsewhere, including Madison County. That's Prosecutor Lindsay Blight. Listen to more. On Monday, May 24th, 2021, a Fremont County grand jury delivered the following new indictments. Lori and Chad Daybell were indicted on two counts of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder and grand theft by deception for the deaths of Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow. Lori and Chad Daybell were also indicted on two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Tylee Ryan and J.J. Vallow. Lori and Chad Daybell were also indicted on the deaths of tyler ryan and jj vallow lori and chad daybell were also indicted on the charge of conspiracy to commit first degree murder in the death of tammy daybell and chad

daybell was also indicted on one count of first degree murder in the death of tammy daybell lori daybell was also indicted on the charge of grand theft related to Social Security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee Ryan and J.J. Valo that were appropriated after the children were missing and ultimately found deceased. Chad Daybell was also indicted on two counts of insurance fraud related to life insurance policies he had on Tammy Daybell, for which she was the beneficiary and received funds after her death. Wow. There you're hearing Madison County Prosecutor Rob Wood with the actual charges enumerated. And there are quite a few to pick from. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of it, Daryl Cohen, former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta for years, now defense attorney. And you can find him at ccealaw.com. Dr. Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologist specializing in criminal behavior at panthermitigation.com, author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and Psychology Intersect.

Boy, do we need to shrink. Also with me, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher. You can find him at PathCareMed.com. Also, a lecturer, a distinguished lecturer at University of Florida Medical School, Jeff Cortese, former special agent with the FBI. You can find him at JeffCortese.com. And now to Nate Eaton, the news director at EastIdahoNews.com, on Twitter at NateNewsNow, Insta at N.Eaton on Instagram. Wow, that's a mouthful. Nate Eaton, before I get too dragged in and all of your CV, what happened? Nine felony counts, Nancy. Nine felony counts after this grand jury met for the past week. Everyone's saying, what has been the holdup? This case broke at the end of 2019.

Yep. The holdup was the grand juries couldn't meet in Idaho. And once COVID was able to diminish, the Supreme Court said, go ahead with the grand jury. They did it within a matter of days. Nine felony counts against Chattanooga. And of course, Daryl Cohen, COVID got in the way. But luckily for the state, there is no statute of limitations or a time limit on a murder charge. Explain, Daryl Cohen. I think I may have lost Daryl, so I'm going to throw that straight out to you.

Nate Eaton, there's no statute of limitation on murder. So if it took another year to put this case together, that would have been all right under the law. But what do you think the state has, Nate Eaton? They have a lot, Nancy. They have a lot. And remember, Chad and Lori have been locked up. What?

What? What? Are you on a first name basis with them? Are you that chummy? You're going to have dinner after the guilty verdict? I should say the Daybells. They've been locked up. Please don't say the Daybells.

OK, because I need to hear specific names to keep all this straight because their charges are not identical. For instance, she's included on a conspiracy to murder Day Bell's wife, Tammy. He's charged with the actual murder. I can just see the two of them hunched up together planning the murder of his wife. I can see it right now. But Nate Eaton, I refer to her as cult mom Lori Vallow and him as hubby number four or Chad Daybell. So let's keep our names straight because I'm

working on a flow chart here. Go ahead. Yeah, this is actually husband number five. Oh, I stand corrected. I'm embarrassed, but pleasantly so. So she's had four test runs and now she's on number five. OK, thank you. Of course, several of them are dead, which is a whole nother can of worms. But he's number five. OK, I stand corrected. Go ahead. Here's to me, Nancy.

I've covered, you know, this for a year and a half. The most interesting development in these indictments are when they go through what happened with Tammy's death. We're learning that Chad and Lori believed Tammy was possessed by a spirit named Viola. Okay, please stop. Wait, wait, wait. You know, you've gotten two sentences out and my head is already completely twisted around. Slow down. First of all, I don't believe that they thought anybody was really possessed.

I think that they just said that as part of their fake religious sham. But could you say that again? They how is everybody they don't want around suddenly becomes a zombie or possessed so they have to kill them? Well, that's that's the question. And that's what they lay out in these documents. You mentioned the religious delusions there. The indictments specifically say they were espousing their religious beliefs for the purpose of justifying homicide. That sounds a lot better than the way I said it. Now, back to the demon that was possessing Tammy Daybell.

I guess him sleeping with cult mom Lori Vallow had nothing to do with his wife turning into a demon. But start at the beginning. They think Tammy Daybell is what? Text messages between Chad and Lori about Tammy before she died say that Tammy was in, quote, limbo. And she was possessed by a spirit named Viola. This is around the same time that Chad signs an application with Tammy to increase her life insurance money to the maximum allowed under her policy. A month before she died. Who is Viola? Your guess is as good as mine. That's the name that they came up with. And they they were they believed that she had been possessed by this demon. They asked her life insurance policy.

Stop saying that. Stop saying they believed she was possessed. They say she was possessed, but they're just saying that to justify getting the life insurance and killing her. Well, the other interesting thing, you know, Alex Cox, Tammy's or Lori's brother, who's now dead. He died in December of 2019. Yep. We learned that that he attempted to shoot Tammy 10 days before she died. You remember the paintball gun incident?

This is Tammy Daybell came home late one night. She said she got out of her car and there was a paintball gunman there in her driveway firing what she thought was paintballs at her. She called the police. Police showed up. There was nobody in the area. They live in a very rural area. She went on Facebook and warned anybody around her saying this weird incident just happened. Well, according to these documents, that was actually Alex Cox, who went to a local sportsman's warehouse near the Daybell's home.

He went to a gun range. He did Internet searches related to special bullets and how to shoot through a Dodge Dakota, his truck. And the day Tammy died, so he allegedly attempted to shoot at her. She didn't die. Ten days later, she dies. He was parked at a church parking lot two and a half miles from her home the night Tammy Daybell died. Chad says she went to bed coughing, never woke up. But Alex Cox is lurking just down the street in a church parking lot as Tammy Daybell is dying. Good Lord in heaven.

Yeah, you're just this is so much more than we knew. I we knew. Okay, hold on with Alex Cox, who's also now dead, along with the husbands and the children and the ex-wife. Can I bring you back to Viola, the demon spirit that is allegedly inhabiting the body of Tammy Daybell, and you're correct. The indictment reads in the overt acts laid out in the very beginning that both Lori Noreen Vallow, cult mom Lori Vallow, and Chad Daybell endorsed and espoused religious beliefs for the purpose of encouraging or justifying homicide. Homicide. It never says they believed it. They used their sham religion to justify murdering, we know of, three people. So they claim his wife, so they can go have sex together and make it okay, is possessed by a demon named Viola. You know, Nate, you can't just drop a truth bomb on me like that and then just run off to another topic.

How do we know about Viola and how did they kill Tammy Daybell? They don't say how Tammy Daybell died. They have not released the cause of death. But remember Lori's former husband, her fourth husband? They also said he had been possessed by a demon, that he had been possessed by a zombie. Remember Kylie and JJ? They were apparently possessed by zombies. So this is in line with those religious teachings. Nancy, several people close to the investigation say exactly what you said. This is not about religion. This is about sex. This is about money. That's what they're saying, that religious, they were espousing their religious beliefs to justify all of this, including taking their dead children's money, allegedly, and using it for themselves for months after they had died. Why is Chad Daybell Googling SSW wind?

What is the definition of SSW wind direction? Well, the theory there could be that this was around the time that the children's bodies were buried on his property. And so there's certain neighbors that live in the area. If he's Googling that, the smell, one would imagine the smell from those bodies, these South Southwest winds could, you know, which way are the winds going to blow? You know, that's just a theory of how people could smell potentially dead children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cult mom Lori Vallow and hubby number five, Chad Daybell, the, I guess you could say cult leader, just indicted on multiple charges. Straight out to Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner,

state of Florida. Nate Eaton is correct. The COD cause of death for Tammy Daybell is not listed in the indictment. She looks as if no stab wound, no gunshot wound, no strangulation marks are on her. So what could potentially be the cause of death? There's no strangulation, either ligature or manual on her neck. That's ruling out a lot. I mean, I don't think she was blue. So what could potentially be the COD, Dr. Gallagher? Well, this is going to be a tough one. You know, in order to become a medical examiner and do this, you know, it requires about 12 years of education after you get out of college. And whoever is going to do this case is going to depend on every one of those years of training and skill to come up with an accurate diagnosis here. If somebody is smothered, say with a pillow or a blanket or soft objects like that placed across their face, placed across their nose, there is no physical evidence to verify that.

So they could have been smothered and there will be no marks on their body to indicate that that would be their cause of death. So generally, if everything else could be ruled out, sharp force injury, blunt force trauma, strangulation, then that is generally the mechanism of death if the toxicology is clean. Okay, so what I'm hearing is either some sort of poisoning via toxicology because there was no autopsy done at the time. Her body had to be exhumed because the husband, Chad Daybill, said he didn't want an autopsy. She was never autopsied. So they just accepted the fact that she died peacefully in her sleep.

Well, that's total BS. That's a technical legal term. Daryl Cohen. Joining me, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. It takes a lot of doing to get a body exhumed, Daryl, but they did it. Well, Nancy, obviously, we have what we used to call in the DA's office the snow argument. Went to bed last night, no snow on the ground. Woke up this morning, there was. Didn't see it happen.

Well, the day bell is a dumbbell. And frankly, I like to use the word class but we take the word class and delete the c and the l and that's what you've got you've got a dumb uh so there you go uh i think you're going to find that there's a lot of forensic evidence i think the fact that it wasn't announced in the indictment means it wasn't yet announced. And we've got a prosecution that's going to be very interested. What does that mean, it wasn't announced in the indictment because it wasn't announced? What does that mean? I mean because they want to wait.

They don't need to announce it in the indictment. They don't have to share that with us. We're looking at indictments handed down in the last hours against cult mom Lori Vallow and husband number five, Chad Daybell, cult leader. This is how the whole thing got started. Take a listen to our friends, Kaylin Ford at Inside Edition. It was just before Christmas that police in Rexburg, Idaho, pleaded with the public for help. Two children were missing and hadn't been seen since September. Seven-year-old Joshua J.J. Vallow was described as having special needs, including autism.

Police said his 16-year-old sister, Tylee Ryan, was devoted to him. The FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children were part of the search. Police said this doorbell camera footage was the last known video of JJ. But police said the children's mother, Lori Vallow, wasn't helping to find them and had never reported them missing at all. So what do we know? We know from our friends at KTVB, Idaho News, Misty Englert is talking about the last time J.J. Vallow was seen and talking about what Nate Eaton is just telling us about how cult mom and her new husband used their fake religion as justification for murder. According to this indictment, it's not just what Nate Eaton is telling you from East Idaho News.

It is what a sworn grand jury is saying. Take a listen to our cut 13 KTVB Boise, Idaho. September 22nd, the last time JJ Vallow was seen. Police interviewed Melanie Gibb and her boyfriend David Warwick who were visiting Lori that weekend. They told police Lori said JJ had turned into a zombie. The next morning, September 23rd, between 8 and 9 a.m., Warwick didn't see JJ and asked where he was. Lori stated he was acting out,, quote, Alex had come and taken JJ. GPS data once again puts Alex on Chad's property that day from 9.55 a.m. until 10.12 a.m., hanging near the pond. All this evidence started coming to light around the first part of June 2020.

Just days later, June 9th, police searched Chad's property. They focused on sites corresponding to the GPS from Alex's phone and the strange text to Tammy. JJ and Tylee's bodies were found in those areas near the pond and fire pit. Once again, we hear that not only do they say that Tammy Daybell was possessed by a spirit named Viola, that both JJ and Tylee were zombies. That's their justification. It's easy to kick this around and talk about it, but back to Nate Eaton with East Idaho News. What's the proof? We can talk about this till the cows come home, but how are we going to prove it at trial? Prove that they were murdered? Well, what I'm told is that the evidence in this case is

overwhelming lori and chad were texting each other all the time there's there is 49 items i believe 43 items from chad's home back at the beginning of this investigation those included computers those included cell phones those included journals journals. Those included writings. Those included a very detailed chart about who in their lives were dark versus light versus zombie. They had a level. You know, one of the things the indictment says is they had a chart of death percentage, death percentages, text messages between Chad and Lori regarding death percentages for Tammy and JJ. I don't know what that means, but these two were allegedly going back and forth with their texts, with their emails. So there's a lot of evidence, as you mentioned earlier, we know a fraction of what they know. And for a jury to indict with nine felonies, a jury could prove all of these, could convict. Well, what you're telling me is a lot of text messages and something called

death percentages. All I know is I don't want to say my name or my children or husband's name beside a column of death percentages. Guys, take a listen to this while you were in that area did you have a chance to further observe ert um excavate that area you referred to as the pet cemetery yes okay what did you observe i had been away from that area, but when I returned to that area, they had already dug down and located what would appear to be a mass of burnt flesh and charred bone. That mass of burnt flesh and charred bone were the remains of Lori Vallow's daughter, Tylee. And what about JJ, her little boy?

Take a listen to Detective Ray Hermosillo. Once that was discovered, what did you observe the ER team do? They continued to just work around the head that was exposed they took pictures they did whatever their team leader instructed them to do okay uh was an item of interest eventually pulled out of that area yes and can you describe what that item of interest looked like? It was a, what appeared to be a small body tightly wrapped in black plastic covered in duct tape. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. So while Tylee's body's totally dismembered and burned,

they're pulling up burned flesh. JJ, this little boy, is wrapped in plastic and duct taped like a mummy. We were asking Nate Eaton from East Idaho News earlier why Chad Daybell was searching which way the winds were going to blow the day the bodies were buried. Well, this is why. More of Hermosillo. Listen. They removed some topsoil that was right underneath the sod,

which revealed three large white rocks, flat rocks. Okay. And can you explain for the court how those rocks were oriented? In a row. So there was a large rock, a large rock, and a large rock. Okay. After you observed that, what did you observe next they removed the rocks and it underneath the white rocks was some thin wood paneling okay and

what did you observe them do with that paneling they removed the paneling okay and then what did you observe initially as soon as they removed the paneling. Okay, and then what did you observe? Initially, as soon as they removed the paneling, I could smell the odor of the black plastic. Okay. And what did you observe? in red pajamas, red pajama shirt, red pajama pants, black socks that had the word Skechers in orange across the toes. I also observed a light and blue blanket that had been placed on top of him. Okay. Detective, were there,

when you observed what you perceived to be a child, was there anything that drew your attention? Yes. Can you describe for the court what drew your attention? The amount of duct tape that was covering the body. This little boy was still wearing his red pajamas and black socks that he was going to sleep in that night. Let me go out to our forensic psychologist,

Dr. Sherry Schwartz. You know, the thought, most of us have children, mine are still little, of murdering your child, their body found still wearing their little red pajamas they slept in the night they were murdered. That is going to floor a jury as it does me.

The cold cruelty of murdering a little child about seven years old in his pajamas at his most vulnerable at sleepy time. Dr. Swartz? It's unconscionable, Nancy, and you're right. It is really, really hard because that visual image that it conjures, I mean, it's just something that most of us can't think about, even people who don't have children. You can't imagine that somebody could do that to any child, let alone their own child. And yet we know now objectively that this is what happened. I think the question is,

at least for the defense, that they'll have to show is that Lori didn't do it to her own child and that she was somehow so gullible and led to believe that Chad Daybell was this, you know, religious leader in her mind. And so she was doing it for the greater good. But I do think that that's going to be a really, really tough nut to crack. I don't see how they do that unless she's got a significant history of mental health treatment, serious mental illness. And it doesn't seem like that. So she's either they're either going to be able to show that she's so mentally ill that she believes all of this about Chad Daybell being this, you know, sort of David Koresh type figure. Or she's possibly a female psychopath. You know, I just don't get it. Nate Eaton, you've been on this.

That was you running along beside cult mom Lori Vallow in Hawaii asking, where are the children? Where are the children? Where are the children? Remember that moment? And I guess you and I both knew at the time they were dead. Although you and I would talk off air. Do you think the cult has them? Are they being hidden away till the end of the world? And I kept holding out hope. But what I found out about this body and his little red pajamas, now is the time to prove it.

Now we're not just talking about it anymore. Once an indictment goes down, the defense can file a demand for speedy trial and make the state go forward. Daryl Cohen, I used to hate getting a demand for speedy trial because that ended my time of preparation. Once you get that demand for a speedy, you got to move forward with

your case, period, or else get an acquittal. Look, I'm past the trial. I think when a jury hears what happened to those children, they are going to be so delighted to convict both of them. And then when they go to prison, I don't want them to have the death penalty if it's even possible, because the people in prison who are already there will take out on them what happened to those poor two children. I hear you, but I don't want to leave it in the hope of jailhouse justice. I want court order justice. Back to you, Nate Eaton. How is this going to be proven? You mentioned text messages and phone calls and emails. Tell me, what do you know? Well, we also know there's witnesses. In fact, one of the key, not witnesses to the murder, but Lori's best friend was here the last time JJ was seen alive. In fact, she saw, she testified that Alex Cox carried JJ out in those same pajamas

the night before JJ was allegedly buried at Chad Daybell's house. And that very day, Lori had been talking about how JJ had turned into a zombie, that he was climbing all over the counters, that he knocked down a picture of Jesus. She was telling this best friend that. So that's pretty strong evidence there, I would imagine. You mentioned, is this a death penalty case? Yes, it could be. The prosecution has to say within 60 days if they're going to pursue the death penalty. A lot of people think the theory is that chad and laurie may welcome that to see them die as martyrs for their cause if if they truly believe child murder killing your spouse just so you can shack up in a motel and have sex with somebody what it's over in 20 minutes and then what well remember chad and

laurie chad especially believed they were the leaders of the 144,000 who would usher back the second coming. Would you please stop talking about their zany beliefs? Please. They're using that as justification. Don't you remember? D-Day is already coming. Wasn't it last summer that the world was supposed to come to an end? Haven't we gone over and over and over the part in the

Bible that says very clearly, nobody knows when this is going to happen? Didn't even Christ say, I don't even know when it's going to happen? So how does Tammy Daybell know it's going to happen? Stop. You sound like you actually believe it, Nate Eaton. Can I get you out of the weeds and back into the middle of the road? The facts, the evidence. I want to hear, do you really believe they've got text messages? And would these two be that stupid to text about murder? There is gigabytes and gigabytes and terabytes of evidence in the cloud, of electronic evidence, of texts, of Google searches, of emails. The indictment goes into a little bit about it.

Please tell me. Well, the indictment talks about text messages between them. We mentioned them being in limbo, the life insurance policy with Tammy, them, you know, emailing about that. Multiple internet searches, including from Alex, about the Grendel drop, a bullet. How do you shoot through a Dodge Dakota? They've got the timeline of what Alex was doing leading up until the moment Tammy died. And this is just a touch of it. So it will be fascinating to see all of the evidence that they do present when this goes before the jury. You know, to Jeff Cortese, former FBI special agent,

you can find him at jeffcortese.com. I said, would they be that stupid? But you know what? Criminals are not as smart as they appear in, for instance, movies and novels. They leave a trail, Jeff. Yeah, they certainly do. We only catch the dumb ones, we say sometimes. You know, there is a long timelineally appears to point to suspicious activities,

appears to point everything back to them. The evidence, the physical evidence itself, the communications, the geolocation on the phones, all the other physical and technological evidence that will be and was discovered by law enforcement, I think is ultimately just going to paint a very clear and disturbing picture. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. And the part of the indictment that lays out overt acts, somebody in that prosecutor's office has really done their homework. They go all the way back to 2018 and track the various things Vallow and Daybell did in preparation for the murders very, very meticulously. One part that we were talking about earlier where Chad Daybell actually checked and Googled the wind where it would be blowing the day that the children were buried

in his pet cemetery. It reminds me of a case I had nate where a very wealthy defendant murdered his wife and set the house on fire guess what he did like the day before two days before he set the fire he called the weather service to find out if it was going to rain the day of the fire and he called his insurance to find out if if the house were to burn down if they covered replacement furniture i mean that's the tip of the iceberg but the planning the meticulous planning leaves a trail like this idiot chad daybell checking with the wind blow the smell of the children's decomposing bodies toward his neighbors? Yeah, and not only that, you might notice in the indictment, Nancy,

how it talks about Chad Daybell and Alex Cox getting burner phones. Alex Cox got a burner phone, meaning one that can't be traced. You know, one of those prepaid cell phone things that on the day that he tried to fire at Tammy the first time, on the day he tried to kill Tammy the first time with the gun, he got a burner phone that day. Chad Daybell got a burner phone around the same time Tylee's body was buried on his property. So they've been able to track down those burner phones,

which I would imagine most criminals think can't be tracked. Well, looks like the police got them. Darrell Cohen, why does a married man need a burner phone? Well, I'd say a married man needs a burner phone because that married man is being a dumbbell rather than a daybell. That married man needs a burner phone. Okay, you did that at the beginning. It was funny then. Because he's a criminal. I'm telling you, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, if I found out my husband had a burner phone, all of his clothes would be in the front yard on fire right now.

A burner phone for what? Well, and it makes me wonder, as I'm sure most of your audience is wondering and has been wondering, is that why Tammy Daybell had to be put out of the way? Because she discovered that there was this affair between these two. And she was protesting as any wife would. The other thing is, I believe I read somewhere, there was an insurance policy for over $300,000 on Tammy Daybell. I believe. I may be incorrect about that.

And Dr. Sherry Schwartz, that's why you're not just a psychologist. You are a forensic psychologist, because you're absolutely correct yet again. Chad Daybell gets all that life insurance policy and cult mom Lori Vallow kept getting social security benefits for all the children she's taking care of. P.S. That are dead. You know, I'm thinking back on what she's saying about the burner phone. Why would they want the burner phone?

But here's the question. Let me throw this at you, Nate Eaton. I think that Sherry Schwartz, Dr. Sherry Schwartz is correct that Tammy Daybell, first of all, did not like Lori Vallow. She did not like the flirtation. I think she suspected an affair. But didn't the children go missing before Tammy Daybell died? Yeah, the children, according to law enforcement, were killed several weeks before Tammy Daybell died. They were buried in Tammy Daybell's backyard as Tammy Daybell was coming and going to work every day as the school librarian.

That gives me another motive for murder. Not that the state needs to prove a motive, Nate Eaton. Not only does she know about the affair, I think she did, between her husband and Lori Vallow, but I wonder if she figured out Vallow's children are missing. I wonder if she put two and two together and figured out her husband had something to do with the children's murders. It's possible. It's possible. She was not stupid. That was a smart woman.

Yeah, she was a very smart woman. She also was, she didn't go along, from every indication, she didn't go along with Chad's religious beliefs. He would go out on the road, and he would do these meetings, and that's how he actually met Lori, down at a meeting in Arizona.

A conference. A conference. Another conference. Why do men even go to conferences? You know, go ahead. He goes out of town for a religious meeting and hooks up with cult mom Lori Vallow. You know she was reading his phone

and his email. She had to know what was going on. So I wonder if she got wise Nate Eaton to the fact these two children were murdered. So he got rid of her for that. It is a possibility. We do know that Lori's one of her best friends said both Lori, Lori had like four or five phones. She was always had a different phone number. Chad was getting into the burner phones. So, you know, it was hard to keep track of where they were and what they were doing, according to her friend, Melody Gibbs. Well, yeah, they even outsmarted police when police were trying to find the two children.

Speaking of Tammy Daybell, take a listen to Garnamahia KSL TV News and Mandy Fowler. Tammy had allegedly died in her sleep. They found her in bed. They didn't know the causes. Mandy was in shock. I talked to her the day before she died. She says during that last visit with Tammy, something felt off.

And she seemed maybe kind of frustrated and that wasn't typical for her. Things got stranger as Mandy and multiple friends tell KSL that Tammy's husband, Chad Daybell, refused to have an autopsy performed. With so many investigations now involving Chad, Mandy hopes to find closure for her friend. I just can't help but think that I want to know what happened to Tammy. Well, here's the choice, Nate Eaton. Either these two, Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell, are clairvoyant or they're murderers because they planned their Hawaiian wedding right down to ordering the wedding dress, his groom's outfit and the ring while Tammy Daybell was still alive. And that search, that Amazon search, was for a beach, B-E-A-C-H, wedding dress. And then conveniently, Tammy did them the big favor

of dying in her sleep. I don't think they're clairvoyant, and that only leaves one alternative. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.