Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL In Case of Missing Brothers Orrin, 3, and Orson, 4

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

The adoptive parents of 3-year-old Orson West and 4-year-old his brother Orrin, send the boys outside to play just days before Christmas. Mom is inside wrapping presents. The brothers haven't been seen since. The dad was outside collecting firewood when he says he couldn't see the boys. After confirming the boys weren't inside the home, a frantic search began. Now, just over a year later, the adoptive parents ARRESTED on murder charges..Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Marc Klaas - Founder, Klaas Kids Foundation www.klaaskids.org Kathleen Murphy - Family Attorney (North Carolina), www.ncdomesticlaw.com, Twitter: @RalDivorceLaw Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, (Atlanta GA) www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Bayan Wang, Reporter/Anchor, KMGH-TV, Instagram: @bayanwang, Twitter: @bayanwang Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Is anything more precious than a three or four year old? Because they're not crying all night. They can run around. They can say things. They can communicate. They can express childlike love and wonder everywhere they go, at least in my world.

Those were some of the greatest times I ever had with my twins, John, David, and Lucy, now 14. And when I think about Orson and Orrin West, ages 3 and 4, I think of my own children at that age. In the last hours, a stunning new development in the search for these two beautiful little brothers. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at ABC 23 News. It's been nearly a year since authorities and volunteers began searching for two young boys or in an Orson West in California City. Bakersfield police officials releasing an update on the case this week. The department says since June they've executed four more search warrants, interviewed 33 more people, conducted 11 more mass area searches and four out-of-state searches.

Over 170 items have also been collected since BPD announced they were taking over the investigation in March. Foster parents Trezell and Jacqueline West reported the three- and four-year-old had disappeared from their California city residence last December. They say the boys went missing from the backyard while the adoptive father was gathering firewood. How exactly does that happen when you're in the yard with your two children? Not just one goes missing, but two go missing at the same time. And from what I understand about the terrain, they were backed up against the desert. How far could a three and a four-year-old get in that type of terrain? Time has passed, but how did it all start? How did it all start about one year ago?

Take a listen to our cut one, Taylor Schaub, KGET17. When you said you were searching for two missing boys, ages three and four, the children Orson West and Orrin West were last seen in the 10,700 block of Aspen Avenue. They're described as African American, about three feet tall, both wearing black sweatshirts and gray sweatpants. But what do the parents have to say? According to them, they were home, or at least the father was, when both children go missing. Is that correct? Take a listen to this. Trezell West details the moment his two adopted boys, three-year-old Orson and four-year-old Oren, went missing Monday night from their California city home. Moments before, West says he was gathering wood to start a fire. I went

up to that gate. I'm throwing wood, bringing it inside the house. My wife's inside. She was actually wrapping gifts. So we thought it was a good idea that they got our youngest to go outside and play with chalk on the back patio. Shortly after, West says he no longer saw the boys on the patio. He asked his wife, Jacqueline, if she saw them. She said no. That's when he says panic set in. I realized that I left the gate open and I panicked, came inside the house, searched the house, me and my wife. Once that hadn't pan out, I got in the van. I looked down the street, most directions. It was getting dark, getting cold.

West said he then called the police within minutes. Since then, California Citylass, founder of Klass Kids Foundation, who has been a champion in finding missing children. If there's something to know about finding missing children, he knows it. You can find him at klasskids.org. Kathleen Murphy, high-profile lawyer joining us out of North Carolina at ncdomesticlaw.com. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute. She's a forensics expert, and you can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Special guest joining us from KMGH-TV, Bayan Wang. Before I go to Byun, Byun, thank you for being with us and taking time away from this case and the others that you're reporting on. Mark Klass,

you hear what the father is saying, and I know that that circumstance can happen. We were just talking the other day about, I believe she was three years old, Samantha Runyon, who was in the front yard. The grandmother was looking at her playing with some other children from inside the kitchen, looking through the window and some perv comes up, grabs her, puts her in the car and leaves before the grandma can even run to the front yard. It was not a very far distance at all. And you know about my incident when my son, my daughter and I, they were about three, no, about two in a baby warehouse superstore. And I was all down looking at the very

bottom shelf for organic suntan lotion. And I turned around and went, I can't find it guys. And there was only Lucy there. And John David had on those Crocs that can be silent. And you know, Mark Glass, I screamed bloody murder, grabbed Lucy like a football and started running for them to lock the doors to the front. Because all I could think about was Adam Walsh. And what had happened was John David had snuck off to look at toys and was actually hiding as I would run down the aisles and look either way. He thought it was some kind of a game. So it can happen in the blink of an eye.

Can it not, Mark Klass? Well, it can, and I bet your son never did that again. No, he didn't. Yeah, we need to put a little context here. California City is absolutely in the middle of nowhere. It's in the Mojave Desert. There is no large cities around it at all. There is no major roads or highways that go through California City.

The population is under 15,000. So, I mean, we're really talking about a remote area. And the idea that two little boys left the yard and within a very few minutes were somehow abducted by an opportunistic stranger is a really hard pill to swallow for a couple of reasons. First of all, there's nobody going through that town that doesn't live in that town. It's just not set up that way. Secondly, we're talking about two little children as opposed to one little child, which means that you're going to have a lot more to deal with keeping those kids under control as you're trying to get away with them. Thirdly, there's absolutely no

evidence of any kind on CCTV or anything else that there was somebody going through that area that might possibly have picked these children up. So I think I believe it's a pretty, pretty suspect story. Well, here's the thing. I'm glad you told me what you just told me, Mark Klass, because I didn't realize exactly where we were talking about. Let me go straight out to Bayan Wang with KMGH TV. You can find him at Insta at Bayan Wang. I remember taking the twins on one of our mini RV trips, and we went through the Mojave Desert. And I've never seen anything like it. In fact, we got there late in the day, and it went dark while we were there. And I was so afraid that RV was going to go off the road. But when I could still see outside, it was cracked dry.

And as far as you could see, there was nobody, nobody but us. That would be a brutal terrain for these two little boys to get lost in. And I never have understood how a three and a four-year-old can get that far away unless the dad's out collecting firewood or getting firewood for like an hour. Also, Bayan, I've wondered during this year about neighbors. Could a neighbor have gotten them and therefore no one would have seen a vehicle? Bayan, you tell me about the neighborhood, especially based on what Mark Klass has just told us. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, this is a desert city and it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere. But the neighborhood that the boys were reported missing out of is actually maybe like any other

neighborhood you would see in a suburban area a lot of houses a lot of cul-de-sacs a lot of people out in their lawns and during the time that the boys were reported missing i mean there was still some daylight out but it was getting dark pretty quickly um so there are people there were people that were outside and police have never reported to us that they ever, that those neighbors ever saw the boys the day that they were reported missing. And, you know, officials hit the ground running for a search. They had an infrared, you know, opportunity up in the sky with CHP helping with the view. With what helping? Well, they had a CHP helicopter up in the sky with, you know, infrared technology that would detect body heat.

Okay, wait. Slow down just a second. With me, Bayan Wang from KMGH. I didn't know it was California Highway Patrol chips. I didn't know that they used an overhead infrared. Tell me about that, Bayan. Well, look, the California City Police Department has, you know, staff of maybe under 15. So they need help from all the resources, you know, that they could utilize.

So, yeah, CHP was pretty quick to respond. They called on the Kern County Sheriff's Office, search and rescue, the Bakersfield Police Department got involved pretty quickly afterwards because, you know, California City Police Department, they're a small team. And for something, two little boys missing,

they needed all the help they could get. And nothing turned up for them during that church. You know, what Bayon Wang just said, true words cannot be spoken, Mark Klass. And I know I ask you this a lot, but if you don't mind, could you recount how critical those first three hours, five hours, 10 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours are

when a child goes missing? Well, if it's under a predatory situation, if it's a predatory situation, as opposed to say a parental situation and the children are going to be murdered, 74% of those kids are going to be dead within the first three hours. 88.5% of those children will be dead within the first 24 hours. That is why time is absolutely so critical. And that's what the Amber Alert actually is all about. And when you hear Mark Klass talking about a parental situation, he's usually referring to something like a mom and a dad fighting over

custody and one gets fed up and just takes the children and hightails it. Sometimes you have grandparents who think they know better and they'll jump in and take a child. That's the kind of kidnap where you don't expect the child to end up dead. If it is a predator who's usually in it to rape the child, they'll go on and kill the child. And why is that? Why is that, Mark Klass? I can't get into the heads of a predator, Nancy. I know that a lot of them are very twisted individuals.

You're dealing with psychopaths. I mean, Polly's killer had been previously diagnosed as a sexually sadistic psychopath. And I can't go there. I'm sorry. Guys, the thinking, I believe, to Kathleen Murphy, who was dealt with so many parental kidnaps, I believe a sex predator kills a child because they don't want to witness because then suddenly they see the child in a different way than they did before they molested the child. The child is no longer pure and pristine.

It's crying. It's hurt. It's bloodied. It's bruised. They don't want to witness. What are you going to do with the child? What, take care of it? I mean, that hardly ever happens.

Why do they always kill the child, Kathleen? Well, obviously, the child could be a witness depending upon the age of the child. They want to, in their mind, discard the evidence. They don't want that evidence around. They want the pure child to be there. The child's no longer. I think you nailed it right on the head. Cheryl McCollum, jump in. Nancy, this case bothers me right from Jump Street, and I'll tell you why. Dad says, I was outside collecting firewood. I go in the house just for a few minutes. I come back out.

The children are gone. Well, he's out there. He doesn't report seeing a car or a stranger or anything out of the ordinary. He's only gone a very few minutes. Well, if he's correct. You know, people say, I left the baby in the bathtub for 30 seconds and I came back and it was dead. Okay. That is not true. It never happens that way. The person, the parent goes and gets on the phone. They play on Facebook. They go, go get the mail. They do all sorts of things. And then the baby baby has drowned they never leave for 30 seconds that did

not happen speaking of what the parents have to say take a listen to our cut 10a the father speaking at a press conference it was cold i was gonna make a fire it's a lot of wood in this area right here next to our house i opened up the back I'm throwing wood, bringing it inside the house. My wife's inside. She was actually wrapping gifts, so we thought it was a good idea that our youngest two go outside and play with chalk on the back patio.

Do not let them go on the dirt in the backyard. Keep them close. So I was playing with chalk, and I came in the house. I saw them close. So I was playing with chalk and I came in the house. I saw them there. One house. I came back out. I didn't see him now. I immediately went back in, asked my wife, Did you see the boys? She said, No, they should be outside playing with chalk. I said, Well, I didn't see him. So I came back outside and I started searching my backyard.

I searched the whole thing. I realized that I left the gate open and I panicked, came inside the house, searched the house, me and my wife. Once that hadn't pan out, I got in the van. I looked down the street, most directions. It was getting dark, getting cold. And I got in the van and I hit a bunch of corners. I went down this street. both directions. It was getting dark, getting cold, and I got in the van, and I hit a bunch of corners. I went down this street.

I turned my light on. I searched. I searched. I called their names. I talked to a gentleman on the street on the other side over there. He didn't see me. So then I came home, and I told my wife, we need to call the cops. It's getting dark, and I need help.

We got to get going. So I called the cops. The cops came. The first thing they did was tell us to stay in the house so they can get a hold of us. And they had us just sitting there and we wanted to keep searching. You're hearing the father speaking out about what happened that night. The father goes on to say he realized he left the gate open, panicked when he had come inside and then he searched the house before he got in the van and started looking. What does the mother have to say? Take a listen to Jacqueline West in our cut 12.

I definitely know they're not walking around. They're not that kind. They do not just roam around. You know, these these patches they definitely I think definitely would have been picked up or something. That's my assumption. Have they ever taken off? No. Okay.

Maybe it's just me Dr. Angela Arnold but they don't sound upset. I mean I went crazy when I couldn't find John David. He had only been gone two minutes. Screaming and crying, it sounded like a siren. And then I realized it was coming from my throat. Screaming to lock the doors, my son was missing.

I did not hesitate and took off running. They sound pretty chill. Yeah, and Nancy, imagine if somebody accused you and said, do you have something to do with your kid going missing? I know you pretty well. I think you would have some choice words for them, and I don't think it would be at a moderate volume either. When I pose the question to the adoptive parents, have some choice words for them and i don't think it'd be at a moderate volume either when i pose

the question to the adoptive parents there are people who think you may be directly involved we want to be fair and give you an opportunity to respond instead of saying they could go screw themselves they basically just said yeah we could understand why that is we totally understand they're just very very calm like mayon is telling us dr angela arnold very calm too calm don't you agree nancy that's why i said it i don't like the way that they're acting now you know how often mark class if i had a defense attorney curl down my throat because i made that observation then they go all on about there's no playbook for drama, for trauma. There's no playbook for grief. B.S. They can scream that

till they're blue in the face. But a jury knows a jury knows what doesn't make sense. And these two, they don't sound upset to me. And I'll tell you what else she did with that statement of hers, Nancy. She set up the only scenario that really works for them. She said these boys don't wander. Well, apparently they wandered into the front yard. But from that point, she's basically saying the only way they could have disappeared is if somebody had picked them up and kidnapped them and taken them far away. And I mean, look at them, Mark Glass. Who would not want these two little boys?

They look like two little models. They're just beautiful and they're just brimming excitement and mischief and everything wonderful about a little boy. So where are they? Take a listen to Our Cut 18, David Kaplan, Fox 58. Trezell, Jacqueline West, and their six kids lived at Casa Loma Apartments here in Bakersfield across the street from where I'm at. They moved from here to California City in September. This afternoon, around 40 people used drones, dogs, trash picker rubbers, and their eyes and feet to look for any sign of Orrin and Orson West. The four and three-year-old's parents say they last saw them in their backyard in California City around 5 p.m. on December 21st.

California City police say they have talked to every neighbor on that street. Whoa, stop everything. Bayonne Wang, joining me,gh six children yeah two biological and four adoptive uh orson and orrin west were uh their foster kids and then they adopted them and that was just before 2020 so around 2019 okay okay so they've got six children two of them were their natural children. Were they, then you've got Orrin and Orson, were the other two adopted children also their foster children? At some point they were. And the day that they reported Orson and Orrin missing, they said that the other four children were at grandparents in Bakersfield, which is about 70 miles away.

So just four stayed with the grandparents, and then Orson Orrin stayed with them. Okay, I'm getting a good picture now by Yon-Wayne. Go ahead. It was just for that time period. They all lived together in that California city home. Visiting. Got it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

So what did the neighbors notice? Take a listen to our friends in Cut 7 at 23 ABC. Speaking to the adoptive parents was incredibly telling as for the first time since the kids went missing, they're telling us exactly what happened from their perspective. Now, it's also important to mention that the community here, a lot of neighbors told me that the parents have been virtually absent from all search efforts, raising a lot of concern out here in California City.

But the adoptive parents told me that's because they've been busy with the police investigation and that police told them that they don't need to be out there searching because there's already an adequate amount of people doing so. No, no way in H-E-L-L I would be searching.

I would be searching. Come hell or high water. And we also jump in. It is so important to point this out. The father says, I went out of the backyard and searched the whole thing. Then I got in the van and went down the street this way and down the street that way. He nor the mama ever says she searched for them. You know what? You're right. You are absolutely right. What mother in her right mind is not out searching? Take a listen to our friends Alex Bell at 23 ABC Cut 5.

And the search continues for two toddlers from California City who were reported missing on Monday night. And now the FBI is involved in the search as well as the Kern County Sheriff's Office. Three and four-year-olds Oren and Orson West, who are on your screen right now, they were reported missing around 5 p.m. yesterday. A search warrant was served at their foster parent's house today in Cal City, and the foster parents are still at police headquarters.

Why did they need a search warrant to search the parents' home? I always use MARC class as the gold standard. When Mark Klass' daughter, Polly, went missing, he didn't tell the place, oh, I'd love for you to come search my place, but you know what? You need a warrant for that. Oh, no. He said, take my fingerprints. Take my DNA.

Come search my place. Search my car. Search my office, do whatever you want. But let's find Polly and let's find who took her. And P.S., can you do it right now? I don't like it when cops have to get a search warrant to search your place when your child is missing because minutes count. Minutes count, Mark Klass. child is missing because minutes count minutes count mark class well in this case more than minutes counts actually months count because the reality is is that nobody in california they can find nobody in california that ever actually saw these two children and that includes

the neighbors and they were able to determine that pretty quickly in their investigation as they were doing their neighborhood canvas. Absolutely not. Let me repeat this. Nobody ever saw those two boys in California City. What about it? Beyond Wang joining me from KMGH. He's been on the case from the very beginning. What about it? Could any neighbor recount a time they had seen the children? Nope. We spoke to a lot of them. Police spoke to a lot of them too. Nobody saw these kids. In fact, the police went a step forward and went to all the convicted sex offender homes. I think there was about a dozen, upwards of a dozen of them. They went inside their homes, did a thorough search. Nothing turned up on that front either. After they got the search warrant to the parents' home, they took a bunch of items, including, excuse me, after they took a bunch of items, it was almost immediately after that their other four children were taken into state custody as well.

And throughout the entire investigation, the parents were unable to retain custody of their other four kids. Mark Klass, did you hear what Bayon Wang just said, that police went and they looked at everybody's house in the neighborhood? Do you remember? It's so important that cops do that because do you remember, I always called her the girl in the pink hat because that was my favorite picture of Jessica Lunsford. She was taken from a home and the cops

did a very, very cursory search, went to the neighbor's residences. She was in a neighbor's residence, had been forced into a closet and threatened to be quiet. And they actually came to that home and she was in that closet. She was, of course, later buried alive and died after she was raped. So these cops did the right thing, Mark Klass. Well, I don't know that they did the right thing in the Lunsford case. I mean, they set up their command center. No, I'm talking about in this case. They did the wrong thing in Lunsford.

Sure. In this case, they did do the right thing. As Bayan said, they realized that they were an understaffed force, so they started to call in other resources. And once you get CHP in, once you get Kern County Sheriff in, once you get the FBI in, you're dealing with some of the best investigators that exist. This is the team you want investigating your missing child case. Of course, unless you had something to do with that yourself. Absolutely. Everyone you are hearing verbalized all the questions police were asking. I mean, to this all-star panel, Mark Klaas, Kathleen Murphy, Angie Arnold,

Cheryl McCollum, Bayonne Wang, jump in. The parents were pretty darn calm. No neighbors had seen the children. They had not seen them out playing in the yard, nothing. The story is not really fitting together. So much was wrong with that picture, Cheryl McCollum. Honey, everything is wrong with this picture. And the more law enforcement did, the more it led them to believe that something was just absolutely not right in California City because they kept going back to Bakersfield. One thing that happened is they brought in cadaver dogs.

Nothing. They brought in search dogs. Search dogs hit on the two boys on the inside of the house, never on the outside of the house. Wow. In the last hours, we have breaking news. Take a listen to our friends in Cut 21, ABC 17. Two parents have now been charged with the murders of a case of their missing adopted sons in the Antelope Valley. In December of 2020, Trezell and Jacqueline West told investigators four-year-old Oren and three-year-old Orson disappeared from their backyard. After an extensive extensive investigation today the Kern County District

attorney revealed the boys have been declared dead and actually died three months before they were even reported missing this is not the outcome that we and so many had hoped and prayed for over the last year we now realize that the search for the boys began after the real tragedy had already occurred. And there will not be a resolution completely in this case until these boys are brought home. The parents are facing second degree murder and child abuse charges. Bayon Wang, explain to me what we just heard was the DA, basically a report of the DA announcing that Orson and Orrin West were believed to be deceased. They are believed to be deceased three months before the parents reported them missing. So they think that between September 1st and September 30th,

the boys were killed by the parents. And this is a crucial time period here because around September is when the parents packed up their bags and moved from Bakersfield to California City. To you, Mark Klass, why, as Bayan Wang is saying, and I agree with him, by the way, is that such a critical date? You mean the September date? Because that was that was approximately the time that the D.A. said that the children were murdered. So you've got this confluence of of little children not having been seen by anybody. anybody at basically the same time that the parents moved to another location, a sparsely populated location, that three months later, all of a sudden the children disappeared from the yard. And I think the parents were just basically trying to justify why the children were not around anymore. Mark Klass, before we went to air, you used the word transactional.

Explain. Well, listen, what we're looking at are two parents who obviously are not that concerned about the children because they don't join in any search efforts. They do absolutely nothing but hang out at their house while the children are missing. But at the same time, these are parents that have fostered four different children, plus their two own, and that's a transactional situation. The state of California pays foster parents an average $1,000 to $2,600 per month to help with the expenses from taking care of the child. So I'm suggesting that the only reason they had these kids in the first place

was because it put some money in their pockets. Once they got, then once they've been adopted, I don't know how that plays out, but I'm sure there's still money involved in it. And they just wanted to keep getting that money. What about it, Cheryl? I think anytime you are making money off of a child, there is the possibility of danger coming to that child because the child is not there because of love and wanting to raise that baby and have that baby be your own. Even in his statement to the media, he says it became ours. It? Yeah, I noticed that. Bayon Wang, I believe I hear you jumping in. Go ahead. Yeah, I mean, the big question

a lot of reporters on the ground over there had for the DA was, first of all, how do you know the boys are dead? And do you have their bodies? The DA said, we don't have their bodies, but we do have direct and circumstantial evidence that leads us to believe

that the boys are not alive anymore. Direct and circumstantial evidence. What could that mean, Bayan? Well, I mean, I think you kind of mentioned earlier on in the show, they've done, you know, they've executed 48 search warrants, collected more than 150 items, searched four different states, conducted 116 interviews. And that was numbers that we got in December. And they presented all this to a grand jury who returned a true bill and resulted in an indictment. And now the parents face two counts of second-degree murder, two counts of willful cruelty to a child, one count of making a false report of an emergency. If they're convicted these charges or looking at 30 years to life in prison. And Nancy, I think most people know

you were my prosecutor, but if those children had gone missing in September, you would have told us go find me Halloween pictures of them. Go find me Thanksgiving pictures of them. Go find me a Santa Claus picture of them. It was four days before Christmas. When those children were murdered was a string of things that children would have been the center focus of your family. They have no such pictures. As a matter of fact, when law enforcement was saying, hey, they're missing, give us current pictures, the adopted parents had none. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You would have thought at least Kathleen Murphy, they would have pictures on their phone.

I mean, last night, I was taking pictures left and right of the twins just doing a science project. I thought that was awesome. I took videos for Pete's sake. I take a million pictures a day. And Nancy, I watched her interview, and they were asking her about the current pictures for these children. And she stumbled all over the words, talked about an old phone, and it was clear that she didn't have pictures. And it was clear that she wasn't prepared to even answer that type of question, although they did rehearse their interview. And then I should say, sorry, I should say three or four months after our first interview with them, I got a tip that the parents were in Bakersfield at the juvenile courthouse.

I went there, saw the parents. There was no cameras involved. Really just wanted to have a conversation, see if we get pictures. At that time, they said they still don't have their electronic devices back from police. They wouldn't give me their phone number i even said guys look there's a lot of people who want to hear from you can you at least issue a statement to me nothing on camera just tell me a statement that i could get out there for you guys and they wouldn't not hey thanks for searching you know or anything like that um and they claim that you know they've been threatened you know their lives have been threatened and that they've been threatened, their lives have been threatened, and that they've been doing their own private searches. Their lives have been threatened? What?

Yeah, Nancy, I also saw... Well, there was an outcry. I mean, come on. There was a huge outcry after the first interview we did with them, the only interview we did with them. Well, their lives, if they were threatened, was because they're not doing anything. I mean, why would you not issue a statement asking people to help find your children and thanking the people that had helped look for your children?

I don't understand that. I was looking for a statement along those lines. They just never got one. They wouldn't tell me a single word. How did they say no? What was their response? Well, they basically just said right now, no matter how we say it, whether we say thank you, you know, to the community,

whether we say, you know, please go and search for the kids even more. They think no matter what kind of adjective, noun, whatever they would say, that someone would find a way to use that against them. Who cares, Bayon? Who cares? I mean, come on, Kathleen Murphy, family lawyer, who cares what people say about you when your children's lives are on the line? Oh, yes. I see how parents every single day don't care what people think about their children.

They put on these images and they don't really have the truth out there. Neither one of these parents have the truth out there. They're going to put an image in and that shows their sense of culpability with regard to these children that are missing. And Nancy, when they were on video, the father, and I use that term very loosely, had his arm tucked under his armpits for over 15 minutes in a very defensive state. He is clearly in that video hiding something. Guys, I want you to take a listen to the Kern County District Attorney speaking in our Cut 25. This morning, I'm saddened to announce that the investigation has revealed that Oren and Orson West are deceased. The investigation has also revealed that they died three months before their adoptive parents reported them missing. However, I am pleased to announce that this week,

the Kern County Grand Jury indicted Trezell and Jacqueline West, the adoptive parents, for the murder of Oren and Orson West. To Mark Klass, founder of Klass Kids Foundation, it's exactly as you said. They, authorities, believe the boys were murdered three months before they were ever reported missing. You know, these people, when you have people that will make any excuse for inaction, will do absolutely everything they can to ensure that they don't get involved in the search or have to make a statement, you're looking at somebody that's hiding something. And you're talking that in itself. I mean, you guys are all the lawyers,

but that in itself seems like a circumstantial situation where you're going to look at these people and go, what in the world is wrong with these people? What are they doing? I think that the DA did a great job. I think that I think she must have presented some amazing evidence to the grand jury. And I just hope that she has everything that she needs to be able to convict these people in a court of law. What do you think they have, Cheryl McCollum, direct and indirect evidence that the boys were killed three months before? I find it interesting that they come out and say, the prosecutor, they were killed three months before they were reported missing. What could she have? I think she has a lot of things.

I think she has testimony from the older siblings, how the treatment was in the house. I think they have cell phone pings. I think they possibly have photographs. I think they've got the statements from the neighbors saying, we didn't even know six boys were ever over there. We never saw any boys ever. They've got the evidence that's circumstantial, but from the canines.

And they also have two things. A statement from the mama when she says, well, I know they ain't out there walking around. And then we find out that Oren had a fractured left leg. So I guess she was right. And what does that mean to you guys? A fractured left leg. I mean, to me, it says they were horribly abused. I mean, Bayon Wang, what do we know about how a little boy at this young age, three to four years old,

has a fractured leg? You know, Nancy, that takes an awful lot of force to break the leg of a three-year-old. It sure does. What about it, Bayon? I mean, that was something we asked investigators and police often. They wouldn't tell us how that occurred or if that occurred. They would never confirm that with us. We tried to get that information. We never got it. And these two counts of willful cruelty to a child, I would suspect that maybe that has something to do with it. And if you read the indictment, they believe that other people were involved in both the cruelty to a child and the second duty murder charge. We asked if anybody else was detained or arrested.

They weren't able to confirm. I'm trying to understand what that means, that other people may have taken part in the mistreatment or even the death of these two children. I wonder, where are the bio parents? Do we know that, Bayon? Yeah, I know the mother is in Bakersfield. And we spoke to her a few times, went in the first month of the investigation and then she, um, slowly started, um, I wouldn't say distancing herself, but she wasn't comfortable talking to us anymore. But as you could imagine for any mother, absolutely devastated.

She said she had plans on, you know, getting her act together, get, you know, um, fixing a few things that, um, may on, you know, getting her act together, you know, fixing a few things that may have resulted in the boys being taken. And, yeah, absolutely devastated. Mark Klass, I just, you know, the boys are dead. The DA has told us so. They were dead three months before they were ever reported missing. And now I hear about the bio mom out there somewhere talking about, wow, I really wanted to get my act together so I could, you know, be part of their lives. Day late, dollar short.

I've been following this case for a long time, and this is the very first time I've heard that one of the boys had a broken leg. And I'm just trying to envision how a little tiny child with a broken leg is going to hobble away from his yard and somehow get picked up by somebody. This doesn't make any sense. This is just evidence upon evidence. I heard that the broken leg was two years ago. It wasn't a recent broken leg. I don't know that.

I don't know that. And I still don't know how he broke the leg to start with, but I know this. I mean, I believe that was Kathleen Murphy. To Mark Klass, thinking about that broken leg,

there is no telling what kind of hell these two little children went through before they were finally murdered. Their lives must have just been pure hell. And I think we just got a glimpse into that, didn't we? So, Bayan, when are these two going to get the death penalty?

Well, they are being arraigned as we speak right now in Bakersfield. I know they were arrested two days ago in Western Kern County. And so things are going to go straight to trial. We'll have to see. I don't think death penalty is on the table here. I think it's... Well, you're right, Bayon. The death penalty probably is not on the table, even though California does have a death penalty and more than one body equals mass murder under the law. And you've got children ages three and four. But it's not going to happen, Mark Klaas. Bayon is right.

Well, it's not going to happen for a variety of reasons. The governor unilaterally shut down death row. He's transferring all of the death row prisoners into general populations. So one man overrode the power of the law and the will of the people in California. And that means that these two will probably live a long and prosperous life behind bars, you know? Yeah, with us paying for it. Three hearts and a car. We wait as justice unfolds.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.