Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL JEFFREY EPSTEIN BROTHER: THIS WAS NO SUICIDE!” RELEASE THE FILES!

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

It's been months since Attorney General Pam Bondi made a first release of information related to Jeffrey Epstein's death, promise to release more. It hasn't happened sparking speculations of a cover-up.   Today Mark Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein's brother, joins Crime Stories. He says he has no reason to believe his brother took his own life, instead alleges he was murdered.   Metadata research shows the ‘raw’ Jeffrey Epstein prison video,  the night he is found dead, has three missing minutes.   Joining Nancy Grace today, Mark Epstein - Brother of Jeffrey Epstein Spencer Kuvin - Chief Legal Officer of GOLDLAW, represented 9 victims of Epstein See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart podcast. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Message to Bondi. Pam Bondi, the U.S. Attorney General, release the files. The Jeffrey Epstein files, in case you need clarification, Bondi, you promised, now, deliver. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I wanna thank you for being with us.

Joining us tonight is a very special guest, Mark Epstein. This is the biological brother of Jeffrey Epstein, now dead. is the biological brother of Jeffrey Epstein now dead. Mr. Epstein, thank you for being with us. You're welcome. Mark, if I may call you that. Sure. You have been disturbed from day one about the claim your brother,

Jeffrey Epstein, committed suicide. You say that did not happen. Why? Well, first of all, it was sort of like almost day two. What happened when I first heard that Jeffrey was found dead from apparent suicide, I heard it on CNN. The government didn't notify me as they claimed. I heard it on CNN. And at first I had no reason to doubt that because, you know, I knew he was in jail. He was potentially facing a very

long term. I knew he wouldn't want to live like that. He didn't have any children to worry about. Our parents are gone and he wouldn't have to worry about me. So there was no reason to doubt that. But then the next day, the next morning, I had to identify his body because I'm the next of kin and they did the autopsy. And so far, you know, the same thing, I just assumed it was a suicide. But then the city pathologist who did the autopsy with Michael Barton, there's forensic pathologists on my behalf, witnessing this, they both came out of the autopsy room and they said they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. Now that never appears in any government report and no

one's speaking about that the two qualified forensic pathologists who did the autopsy could not call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. And then a few days later, Barbara Sampson, who was the chief medical examiner, she declares it was a suicide. And let's be clear, Barbara Sampson never saw the body. She wasn't at the autopsy. And after the autopsy was over that day, we blamed the body. So she never saw it.

Just like Ash Patel made that statement that, because he's a prosecutor and everything else, he said, you know a suicide when you see it. And we said that in a congressional or a Senate hearing, you know, and the oath I would take. And he said, you know a suicide when you see it. The first questions that came to mind was, well, how many suicides has he seen?

Okay. And also he never saw the body. He never saw the scene. Yeah. I don't think he was at the scene of the crime that day, or I don't know if it was the day afterwards, but that wouldn't matter. So it's like everything seems to be covering up the fact at the pathologist who did the autopsy wouldn't call it a suicide. Other people are calling it a

suicide, ignoring these very qualified professionals. Dr. Barton has done about 500 autopsies on prison beds, and I'm not sure how many Dr. Roman did, certainly more than Cash Patel. You know, with us, everyone, is Mark Epstein. This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, who doesn't have a dog in the fight. No skin in the game to opine as to whether Epstein committed suicide or not. But what he's saying is very, very disturbing. Day one, Mark Epstein, I was concerned about the markings and I've

prosecuted and investigated many many homicides more than I can count and have investigated suicides as well to determine if they were homicides and the first thing that jumped out at me was the marking on your brother's neck which was a straight across horizontal ligature mark. And when someone hangs themselves even from the side of a bed, think about Robin Williams who committed suicide by use of a ligature from a doorknob. This is not a traditional hanging, hanging for instance from an elevated point. Even from that type of suicide from a bed, you would see a U or a smiley marking on the

neck. This was a straight horizontal ligature mark indicative of someone strangling him with a ligature from behind. It's a subtle but important distinction which I will discuss momentarily with a forensic expert. Let me understand, Mark Epstein, you just stated that you learned about the suicide allegation from TV. Yeah, I was actually in Norfolk, Virginia having breakfast at a restaurant and the television was on, tuned to CNN. And I saw my brother's picture appear

and they said that he was found dead from an apparent suicide. That's how I learned about this. And in the Justice Department report, they said they notified me. They did not. There's a lot of errors in the Justice Department, the court. Why would they have lied about that?

They're trying to make it look like a suicide. Why? Why do you believe the government? And I'm not one for conspiracies, Mark, at all. Why? Because I don't think people can keep their yap shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy. That's why.

But in this case, the refusal to release the files that were promised to us months ago, promise after promise after promise, the confusion around suicide v homicide, the edited video. And again, we're hearing from DC, well, there's nothing in the files. Well, if there's nothing in the files, release the files. We have got, I think now, four suicides connected to your brother's case. Four, four suicides. Jeffray, Virginia Jeff Jeffrey, your brother, his French counterpart, according to law enforcement, and two other alleged victims. Now five people commit suicide? Can that possibly be a coincidence, Mark Epstein?

There's also other things that raise the question. a coincidence, this is ridiculous. I thought, why is the attorney general himself watching this whole night long video? You know, when you have somebody in his office watch it and say, hey Bill, nobody went in or out. That was number one. And number two, to assume that he was, it was a suicide because nobody went in or out when there were 12 other prisoners on that tier. I would not have to go in or out of that door

if they were gonna kill somebody on that tier that would not have to go in or out of that door if they were going to kill somebody on the tier. And I was told that cell doors were left unlocked at night. And I was also told by somebody who's familiar with the prison that they weren't surprised to hear that. So, and also to think that somebody could get to Jeffrey's tier, go inside, you know, kill somebody and then leave completely undetected. It's just like a stupid statement that, you know, that's not what you're based it on. We can't find out who the other prisoners on that tier were. When did they get there and where are they now? There's been no interviews of all the prisoners on the tier, which would normally be done in a situation like that.

There's no record of that. So when I heard Bill Bar say that, and then, you know, the forensic pathologist said they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. I mean, if you just looked at the facts of this and forget it was Jeffrey Epstein and forget the case against him for a minute, you know, this doesn't look like a suicide. You would investigate this as a homicide. And then also the night when they locked up. But we have there's a record of, you know, we know about the two guards that got in trouble, you know, because they weren't doing the rounds, you know, Tova Noel and Michael Thomas. Now Michael

Thomas came on shift in the middle of the night, but he wasn't there when they locked up the tear. And there's never any, there's never ever just one guard there. On the report, there's a mention of an unnamed guard, number one, and an unnamed guard, number two, the question is, who are they and why are they unnamed? Are they actual prison guards? Could they have been put there to, you know, to kill somebody? And then they disappeared into ether without any record of who they are. There's all these unanswered questions that in a normal, clear, honest face, even if it was a suicide, these questions would not be kept secret. There's just too much, too much mystery about it. As a matter of fact, Mark Epstein, if this were any case, but your brothers,

everything would be very, very transparent with a simple FOIA, Freedom of Information Act, request. Because Epstein's case is over. He's dead. It is no longer an ongoing investigation as it relates to him. So if that's true, why haven't all of these questions been answered and why haven't these files been released? I've handled literally so many cases, thousands of cases, I can't count them.

And when a case is over, when a case is over, say the PIRP dies or the appeals are exhausted, the files are released. The PIRP's dead. Epstein is dead. These files should be released. You know, you mentioned FBI Director Cash Patel. Did you state, Mark Epstein, that Patel stated, you know, I know a suicide when I see one? Yeah, he said that it's a public record. He said that in the government hearing. He listed his credentials as a cross-appeal.

He's not a medical doctor. He's a lawyer. Well, that's what I said before. I said he's not a forensic pathologist. He doesn't have a medical degree. I even joked. I said maybe he has a Boy Scout Merit Page in first aid. What is he basing his expertise on? That's the question. Also understand something. When the government quickly calls this a suicide, that sort of kills any investigation because if it's a suicide, there's usually just two questions on the suicide. One, how did they do it? And two, why? You know, and how did they do it is usually simple. You know, I say you could find somebody, you know, splattered on the sidewalk or they jumped off of a building. If they're laying in a

pool of blood with a gun on the floor or they shot themselves. You know, it's a pretty simple answer of how somebody committed suicide. The why doesn't matter because, you know, in this case he's dead, but but it stops the investigation. There's no no reason to investigate any further. That's why they call it a suicide. So because in jurisdictions where suicide is a crime, the perp is the dead person. It's very obvious.

So when something is named a suicide, when it's determined to be a suicide, that ends all investigation. There's nothing to investigate if it's a suicide. Homicide altogether different. In addition to Patel, now the theory is emerging, Mark Epstein, that your brother, Jeffrey Epstein, was not just a multimillionaire, that he was actually a U.S. and Israeli intelligence service spy. And that that is why the files are not being released, because there is sensitive information in the files as it relates to U.S. security. What do you make of the claim

that your brother was in fact an intelligence agent? Well, I've heard this for years already. This is not the first time that's been raised. I have no idea. She didn't tell me what he was doing. So, and I, and I said before, I don't want to speculate on anything because I start speculating, I lose credibility. I like to stick to facts.

So I have no idea about what Jeff was doing, if or any anything, but I do believe he was built to quiet him for the information he had. What information? Well, I've said publicly before, in the 2016 election, he told me that if he, he didn't tell me what he knew, but if he said what he knew about the candidates,

Trump being one, they'd have to cancel the election. So he obviously had some dirt on Donald. So he said if he said what he knew, they'd have to cancel the election. So he obviously had some dirt on Donald, you know, so if he said what he knew, they'd have to cancel the election. That's what he told me. You can make out of that whatever you want, but that's a quote. You can take that wherever you want. What disturbs you the most, Mark Epstein? Let's get off the allegations that your brother was a spy. All that, although that has now reared its ugly head as an excuse why these files are not being released. We've all heard of redaction. I've had to redact many, many documents before they are released and you are to redact or mark

out with a black magic marker. That's what I'm talking about, redact. Only sensitive portions. Why can't the files be released with any intelligence related information if there is any? Redact it. What about the other thousands and thousands and thousands of pages, Mark? Well, as far as I'm concerned, they should release everything they can. I have no qualms with that. And then the question also becomes, if Bill Barr made the statement to quash the investigation, that Jeff, it was a suicide, which, like you said, ends investigations, and Kheris Patel is claiming it's a suicide without any expertise, without even, he never saw the body either, you know, and it's quickly deemed a suicide. You know, who, if he was killed,

who ordered the hit, so to speak? Who were these people covering up for? That should be the question that we're looking at. If it was, cause most people who look at all the facts believe it was a homicide. You know, people that see a little bit here, a little bit there, you know, I get these 15 minutes to talk on a podcast or something. You have to look at

all the facts. It would take, you know, quite a lot of time. We have a master, a lot of information and everyone who has seen the bulk of it, nobody thinks it's a suicide. And so who is being protected? That's the question. We are speaking to Mark Epstein. This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother. And the issue is not whether we like or hate, love or hate Jeffrey Epstein. We don't have to condone what he was accused of doing. Of course we don't.

The issue is, why are these files not being released? Now we've been told from the highest source that there is no quote client list. There may not be a client list in the way that you imagine. You open a little black book and you go through it alphabetically and you find names and phone numbers and emails and addresses. That may not exist, but those files could contain indications and names, descriptions descriptions of events, flights, and so much more to impugn the integrity of many, many highly placed individuals, multimillionaires, celebrities. We don't

know. Why don't we know? Because the files have not been released and now with claims that the video from the night of the death as Mark calls it the murder has been doctored it was released as raw footage it is anything but raw according to experts. Let me say something you know I don't think somebody got into the tear to kill him and then left so the video is not going to show that. But what I want to see, which also we can't get, is the video of the infirmary area of the prison. Because when Jeffrey was found dead, after they tried to work on him, which I don't know why, because the autopsy showed he was dead for at least two hours when he

was found. At least, most likely a lot more, and there's other reasons for that, but at least two hours. So he was taken to the infirmary when the fire department EMP people got to the jail from the 911 call. Jeff's body was already in the infirmary. So I'd like to see the video footage, you know, on all the cameras from the prison cell where he was to the infirmary and in the infirmary itself, because there's cameras all over that place. We can't get any additional video footage because this would show the condition that Jeff's body was in, how it was handled. And then there's a picture of them wheeling him out of the

prison. They go to the hospital, he's on a gurney and he's got a neck brace on and he's intubated and the EMT guys are squeezing an air balloon to try to get air into his lungs. Now these are professional medical people and Jeff's been dead for two hours. So it's sort of why the charade of trying to make him look like he was potentially revivable. I mean they wouldn't, you know, the mark in his neck that you saw in the photograph, it stayed in his neck. That's the indication that he was dead for at least two hours. You know, so why, and then I have a photograph of him from the hospital where he's actually wearing a hospital gown.

You know, he's dead on the gurney with a hospital gown on someone put his arms through the sleeves and, you know, it's kind of tie in the back. Why did they dress his dead body in a hospital gown? Normally dead bodies are either in body bags or covered by a sheet. So why the charade? Also what I was told by people on the scene is that there was somebody there with a handheld video camera in the prison infirmary and in the hospital. Where's the footage from that handheld video camera? This is all stuff that wouldn't, like as you said, would normally be open and available in a regular case, in a regular suicide, but nothing's being released.

Mark, I've got to tell you something, Mark. I have investigated and prosecuted and covered literally thousands of homicides, of deaths. I've never seen a dead body put into a hospital gown. Never. Not once. That's very disturbing. I had not heard that detail until you just told me that. So you have a video of your brother wearing a hospital gown. Not a video photograph. That's unmistakable.

It's my, it's Jeffrey in the hospital gown on the journey in the hospital. Yeah, and when I, when I first, when I first saw that, I got a question to somebody who was on the scene. I said, what was Jeffrey wearing when he was found? I thought, well, if he was wearing a hospital gown when he was found, it makes sense. But it turns out, no, he wasn't wearing a hospital gown.

He was wearing the prison orange shorts and shirt when he was found. So someone went through the trouble of dressing this dead body in a hospital gown. Why do you believe that there is a coverup happening right now? I already know you believe he was murdered. You don't refer to it as a suicide or a death.

You refer to Jeffrey Epstein's murder, your brother. Why do you believe there's a cover-up now, Mark Epstein? Well, it's always been covered up. They never came out and said it was, you know, anything other than a suicide, even though the actual pathologist who did the autopsy, the only two, both claimed that they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. Mark, according to reports, you actually laughed at the handling of the so-called Epstein files. Why?

Well, it's just, again, it's just so blatantly wrong. It's just wrong the way this is being handled. And if you believe, as I do that, this is a cover up, it's sort of like, you know, every time, like I said before, every time they do something or say something, it just makes a puts their foot further down their throat. They're digging a deeper hole for themselves because nobody's believing anymore what they're saying. Even, you know, the supporters on, uh, you know, it's not a partisan issue for me, you know, but the president

supporters, they're getting really annoyed and breaking away because they don't like, they don't like being lied to. I'm with you on that, Mark. I'm not a Democrat and I'm not a Republican. I really don't care. I think they all lie and I have to hold my nose when I vote. That said, I don't have a political dog in the fight, but I know we were promised that these files would be released. We were told over and over and over and now they're not. It stinks to high heaven. The case is over. Why are the files being withheld? You stated that you laughed. You stated that you laughed. What is amusing about it is that you're, are you laughing out of irony?

What makes you laugh about this situation? Well, the thing I really laughed at was, the main thing was Cash Patel's line. I don't know how stupid is that? For him to claim, you know a suicide when you see one, when he didn't see this suicide. He didn't see Jeff's body or anything about it. This was almost six years ago, and he's now claiming you know

it's suicide when you see it. I mean, how did he expect anyone to believe him, give him any credibility on a statement like that? I mean, it was funny. It was just, it was so ridiculous. Maybe I would laugh if I weren't so disturbed as to cry victim myself that we're not getting the answers that we were promised. Do you believe that Ghislaine Maxwell knows anything? She was around a lot. I've not been in person in the drug fight with her, but yeah, she probably knows a bunch. She was around for a lot of this stuff.

I was the area when she and Jeffrey were close. Mark Epstein joining us, Jeffrey Epstein's brother, he is convinced Epstein did not die by his own hand and has brought up multiple inconsistencies with what we are being told is true. Final thought, Mark? It's not only me that's convinced. It's everybody who looks at all the information we've been, I'm there so far, and there's more coming in. We're finding new information that will

be out but again I don't want to speculate and I don't want to put information out that I don't know for sure but there's more stuff coming out and it's not just me. It's not just my fight. A lot of people, most people who've seen it, not all the people who've seen all the information we have, out of that group, nobody believes it was a suicide. Well, you know, Martin, you just said something else extremely interesting to me and significant. It's not just about you. It's not just about your brother, Jeffrey Epstein.

It's about what's right and what's wrong and promises, and the fact that our whole system is based on seeking the truth, regardless of what that truth may be. Maybe we'll get the files and there'll be nothing in there. Maybe it will be this morning I had oatmeal, then I took a jog in Central Park, I don't know. But the fact that we're not getting them, the fact that we're being told them, the fact that we're being told, there's nothing in the files. Well, if that's true, then release them. This is no way to run

an investigation. It's not a partisan. Every American citizen should be concerned that here you have an American citizen who was killed in prison under federal protection. That should disturb everybody that that could happen. Also, what's part of the story is that in a few days after the death, they were trying to appeal the bail decision to Jeffrey to see if he can get bail. And he was putting up a, like, it would have been the largest bail in US history. And a hearing was coming up for that. So, you know, again, I wasn't involved in the day to day thing. And I found out about that afterwards, that the hearing was, was soon to come. And I know Jeffrey, I wouldn't say, well, you know, if he was, if he was going

to commit suicide, he would wait to see if he got bail. Because if he got bailed, he'd be out of jail, he'd be living in his house with an ankle monitor on and armed guards to make sure he didn't go anywhere, cameras, you know, but he wouldn't be in jail. So why would you kill yourself before that bail hearing? I could see if he had the bail hearing and it was denied, and then he didn't want to spend another year in jail awaiting trial. Okay, that's a reason to take yourself out.

But that hearing didn't come up yet. It was soon to happen. So why would he kill himself before the hearing for bail? Doesn't make sense to anybody. No, it doesn't. It doesn't make sense, Mr. Epstein. We wait as God willing justice unfolds. Goodbye, Mr. Epstein. Joining us now is a very special guest, Spencer Kuven, Chief Legal Officer, Gold Law,

who has represented nine Epstein victims. Nine. Nine. Now I prosecuted a lot of cases and when I would have three or four victims, that would be like an avalanche. You, a single lawyer, have represented nine, which tells me that there are many, many more

out there, probably, that we don't even know about. It's concerning to me, Mr. Kuehman, first of all, thank you for being with us, that there are five suicides, five alleged suicides connected to this case. Does somebody in this universe want me to believe that five people connected to this case all committed suicide. And let's see, there's Epstein, there's Virginia's Jeffrey, there's the French Epstein, who was

a pimp of little girls. There was Carolyn Angiano, and there was Leap Sky Patrick. That's five people. Three of those Epstein victims, three dead. One is Epstein and the other is his French counterpart. That they would trade little girls as young as 12 years old. He ends up dead. Wow. Are any of your clients worried about how people connected to this case are dropping dead like flies?

I got to tell you, Nancy, you know, a couple of issues. First of all, the moment he was rearrested in New York when his plane landed or New Jersey, at that moment, I did an interview shortly thereafter advising the general public he was never making it out alive. And, you know, prophetically, he didn't. I was one of the first ones that said he wouldn't make it out alive. And frankly, I continue to be a disbeliever in the story that's been populated by the

feds and the Department of Justice. There are just way too many connections here. I can also tell you exclusively, because I don't know that I've ever talked about this before, but shortly after he passed in jail, I received a call from one of the guards at the facility who had retired. This is somebody that wasn't working there at the time, but was able to speak with me on authority because he had worked there and said, there is no way that someone within that type of a facility could have the opportunity to commit suicide. This is the most secure, one

of the most secure prisons we have in the United States. It is a prison within a prison within a prison. It is three levels of high security constantly monitored. And it was unbelievable to him that somebody in there would potentially be able to commit suicide. And then look at the photographs. This is a gentleman that was on suicide watch just a few weeks prior. And yet they give him sheets and they give him pill bottles and they give him wires. In the photographs, you can see all of the things that they gave him that potentially they could then use later to say, oh, well, look at all this stuff he used to commit suicide. It's just absolutely unbelievable. It's unbelievable to me.

It's unbelievable to the victims I represent. Well, Spencer, hold on a moment. I want to follow up before I lose the thought. Spencer Coven joining us, Chief Legal Officer, Gold to Law, who has represented nine and counting Epstein victims. I've been in a lot of prisons and a lot of jails. A lot.

More than I can even remember. A lot of prisons and a lot of jails. A lot. More than I can even remember since I started prosecuting violent crimes in 1987. That said, Spencer, you're right. Never in any jail, any penitentiary that I have any youth facility, a GV jail that I have ever seen, did a cell have as much strewn around as the Epstein jail cell?

When I saw that, I'm like, that's impossible. Inmates are not allowed. All of those sheets, blankets, accoutrement, that doesn't happen. Why? Because it is a homicide-suicide risk. Those sheets can be torn into strips and used to commit a homicide. You do not see that in a facility. And the moment I saw that Spencer, I knew it was wrong. What we're showing right now, that would never happen. Anybody in the justice system knows this is wrong. No. No, Spencer.

This is top level security prison, right? This is where we hold terrorists and high level prisoners. You're absolutely right, Nancy. There is no way, and I've been inside jails as well in the work that I do on behalf of victims, interviewing people. And this is just impossible. It was impossible to believe when I saw it. It was impossible to believe on behalf of my clients. I just, I couldn't believe it at the time. And my clients couldn't believe it either. You know, it's just atrocious. And I want to bring you back, you know, I've been representing victims going back to the original prosecution of this case in Palm Beach. I represented victim number one.

That was a 14-year-old girl that I helped walk through the criminal justice and then subsequently the civil justice system, which started the landfall of future victims of Jeffrey Epstein. And you said before, how many? I can tell you that in my contacts with the FBI during those investigations, there were literally hundreds of victims, hundreds of young girls who had been trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell. They were out there. And then there were more than hundreds that actually submitted claims when the funds were seized over in the Virgin Islands after his arrest. So the victims are numerous. The stories are voluminous. They involve high-profile individuals in the business community, high-profile politicians, royalty, you name it.

Jeffrey Epstein had the goods on all of them and there were a lot of people, I have no doubt, that were afraid of what he had to say. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm curious, Spencer Kueven, and I recall when you said this. When Jeffrey Epstein touched down at the private airstrip at Teterboro and he was arrested, you said, he'll never make it out of jail. He'll never come out alive.

He'll be killed. You called it. How did you know that was going to happen? I know you're not clairvoyant. So you had to deduce from the facts that he would be killed behind bars, and you were right. I gotta tell you, based on the information, not only that I knew at the time that I could disclose, but based on the information that I still to this day,

unfortunately, can't disclose based on attorney-client privilege, and the people that were involved in some of these trading for sexual favors over the years, there was just no way. These people were at too high of a level. They were too influential. And someone like Epstein, with that type of information, I just knew was never going to

make it out of that system alive. It just wasn't going to happen. We are showing you video now of the prison cell in which Epstein died. His brother tells me he refuses to call it a suicide because he's convinced it's a homicide. And again, he's got no skin in the game, no dog in the fight. It doesn't affect the brother one way or the other, whether it's a suicide or a homicide. He's not getting any money out of it. He's not doing a book deal as far as I know. He's just saying this is no suicide. If you look at that video Spencer, it shows the elevator which is the only way in and out although I'm sure they've got to have an emergency exit stairs, right? But that said, I think that may be

pictured in the video as well near the, yeah, there you go, by the elevator. That said, that doesn't exclude or preclude his neighbors who had been moved in and out of the cell block, who was there that night. Amazingly, those names have not been released. What do you make of it, Spencer? You know, there are a number of things. And I heard your interview with his brother shortly before and he makes an excellent point. With respect to the video, we don't see the video of him in the infirmary. We need to see that video to see what wounds he had as he came out of his cell. But more importantly, who was working on that block that night?

We need to see the interviews, we need to see the names of the people that are involved, and we need to see all of that video, not just the snippets they've decided to show to us. And we all know in this day and age, video can easily be edited. If you watch that video and the time code on the video, and I've watched it numerous times now, there are sections of that where the timecode jumps. And it is weird, it's strange. I don't

know what to make of it. But if this is the raw video, I would be surprised. I think they've processed this video through something, and that they probably cut things out. But I can't be sure of that. But at the end of the day, release the names of the people that were on that block and let us know who was there so that the public can talk to them and interview them like you're doing here today with me and find out what they know. Spencer, I think we should demand more than that. I don't want just a list of names prepared by the government. I don't believe that anymore, and I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist at all. Again, I don't think people can keep their yaps shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy. But unlike any other case that has been closed with—this case is closed with the death

of Epstein, this is subject to FOIA, Freedom of Information Act. There is no reason for these files not to be released. We were promised the release. It didn't happen. Why? We're being told, oh there's nothing there. Well, if there's nothing there, then why not release the files? I think we need the entire set of files, not a list that somebody in DOJ makes up pursuant to what their boss tells them to do. I don't believe that anymore. You also say that you're convinced, 100% sure, that everything has not been released, and you are falling back on thousands of hours of surveillance video from Epstein's homes that remain sealed.

So you know for a fact, everything has not been released. It is absolutely certain that everything hasn't been released. And the ruse with respect to release the grand jury testimony, again, that is only a very small snippet of information. We're talking thousands of hours of videotape, surveillance, in-home camera videos that were taken from the Manhattan mansion, the St. Thomas Virgin Island mansion, and the Palm Beach mansion that I know exists because I was one of the only attorneys early on in the case to actually walk

through Epstein's Palm Beach mansion after the incident and during our case. And I saw firsthand places where he had put the video cameras in the rooms inside of his home in the corner of those rooms, including in bedrooms, his massage room, and other places in the home. I know it exists. The FBI knows it exists. And I guarantee that the Department of Justice

has done summaries of the videotapes. Where are the summaries? Where are the people identified in the videos? Where are the videos? You know, at the end of the day, the public needs to see this information and judge for themselves. And you're right, if there are minors

that are identified in there, redact those names. If there are videos of minors, you know, blur the images. But who else was in this home? Who was there? And who was part in this home, who was there, and who was part of this criminal enterprise that Epstein ran for years? Spencer question, guys joining me, Spencer Kuvin, Chief Legal Officer, Gold Law,

who has represented so far and counting nine of Epstein victims. Do you believe, Spencer, that any of your clients, some minors at the time, do they have reason to believe they were videoed? All of them that were inside the home had a fear that they were videotaped. Absolutely. Because once it came out that there were cameras in the home, then they were afraid that there were going to be videotapes that were going to be released of them. And they still to this day live in fear. I mentioned I represented victim number one.

She has still been anonymous up until this day. It has been almost 20 years since those cases were prosecuted and both in civil and criminal court. And even to this day, she's been anonymous, and she's afraid that her identity will be disclosed in some of these videos. Well, not only should she be concerned about the video being released, and she's in the video, but there are already five dead bodies piled up. Five dead bodies. Three of them

Epstein victims. I assume you brought that to the attention of your clients, correct? Oh, I didn't need to bring it to their attention. They brought it to my attention. They are all very afraid. They're concerned for themselves. They're concerned for their family members. You've got to remember, this was a defense team even at the time that was so hard on these victims that they had people in SUVs following them

at all hours of the night, showing up at their jobs, questioning them and making veiled threats about if they talk, what could happen to them. So they are very afraid when they start seeing bodies pile up around this whole Epstein debacle. And I call it a debacle because of the way that the federal government and the state government handled this prosecution. up around this whole Epstein debacle. And I call it a debacle because of the way that

the federal government and the state government handled this prosecution. It was an absolute debacle from the beginning. And now, you know, people are trying to, I believe, cover up the truth and cover up what occurred. Listen, I know for certain. Well, settle in, Spencer, because it seems like everyone that speaks out meets with misfortune. Yeah, it's sad. It's sad. You know, I was gonna say, I know for certain that there are individuals high up in the corporate world who have not been disclosed that were customers of the Epstein-Maxwell trade. I know they exist. I just can't talk about them because of attorney-client

privilege and clients that were traded to them. But they exist and they haven't been disclosed. That information is out there and the government should release all the names. Okay. Spencer Kuvin is joining us, Chief Legal Officer at Gold Law representing and counting nine abstain victims. I'd like you to repeat what you just said in regular people talk, okay? Not everyone is familiar with the intricacies of the Epstein case, and I find what you said just then extremely probative.

Please repeat regarding corporate clients of Epstein's. So I know for certain that a number of my clients had been traded to high level corporate individuals on Palm Beach Island that would come and visit the island and then make a call to the home and either get Maxwell or Epstein and tell them they were in town and they would like someone's quote sent over.

Those individuals told me in confidence based on attorney-client privilege, which we then relayed to the defense team for Epstein, those cases resolved and settled quietly under confidentiality. Now, both my clients and Epstein wanted to remain confidential in that circumstance. I can't disclose those people's names. I'm duty-bound under my privilege, and I'm not allowed to disclose it. But at the end of the day, I know those people exist, and those people's names should be disclosed by the government.

Spencer Kooven, you know you're preaching to the choir right now. You are preaching to the choir. I know this is wrong. I know this is wrong. And I also know that whoever speaks out and calls it wrong is courting misfortune. I know that. We wait as justice unfolds, God willing. Thank you, Mr. Kuvin. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. Mr. Coven. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.