Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL: Knife Found in Murdaugh Murder Mystery

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

Alex Murdaugh, whose wife and son were found murdered at their South Carolina home, is life-flighted to a hospital after being shot in the head while changing a tire. Now we learn that the knife used to damage that tire, has been found and linked back to Alex Murdaugh. Murdaugh checked himself out of the hospital with a superficial head wound. It's one more twist related to the deaths of Maggie and Paul Murdaugh. Alex Murdaugh resigned from his family's law firm the day before he was shot and is now being investigated for misappropriating funds He has also been suspended from practicing law in South Carolina.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Ashley Willcott - Judge and Trial Attorney, Anchor on Court TV, www.ashleywillcott.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills) Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Matt Harris - Morning Show Host of The Matt and Ramona Show on 107.9 WLNK (Charlotte, NC), Podcast Host: "The Murdaugh Family Murders: Impact of Influence" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. As the story unfolds, we are learning more and more about the so-called Murdoch murder mystery out of South Carolina. First of all, it began when Maggie, Mother Maggie, and her troubled son Paul found dead at the Murdoch estate, their hunting lodge. Both of them shot multiple times. In recent days, her husband, Alex, who found the bodies, was shot himself in the last hours. A bombshell has the knife that was used to slash the tire of Alex Murdoch's Mercedes SUV been found. This is how the whole thing started.

Take a listen to our friends at WCIC News for Charleston. Tonight we are following a developing story out of Hampton County. According to his lawyer, Alex Murdaugh has been shot in the head. His lawyer telling us earlier today, Murdaugh was changing a tire when a motorist drove past him, then turned around and opened fire. We're told he's been airlifted to MUSC and that he is currently conscious and breathing. Back in June, Murdaugh's wife and son were killed in a double homicide in Colleton County. The shooting now being investigated by SLED. That is South Carolina Law Enforcement Division.

With me, an all-star panel, Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, court TV anchor at ashleywilcott.com, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Hills at drbethanymarshall.com, star of a new Netflix hit, Bling Empire, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a new hit on iHeart, The Piketon Massacre. But first to Matt Harris, morning show host of the Matt and Ramona Show on WLNK in Charlotte, and the host of a brand new podcast, The Murdoch Family Murders Impact of Influence. Matt Harris, tell me, what's the story behind the headline, a knife linked to Alex Murdoch has been discovered? That's what Fitz News is reporting,

that the knife used to puncture the tire has been recovered. And they say the wording was linked to Alex Murdoch. So that's all we know at this point. We know that the kind of tires that a Mercedes-Benz Sports Utility have, more than likely they're not going to go flat off of a drywall screw or something. It's going to take— Well, hold on. It's my understanding that in those Mercedes SUVs, they've got what you call extended mobility tires. It's a flat drive. In other words, just the new tires that are on high-end vehicles like a Mercedes SUV, that when you get a flat,

you can keep driving like 25 miles or so. He had those on his Mercedes. I mean, when I looked at the crime scene footage, not the double murder, but of Alex Murdoch getting shot in the head by an unknown assailant in a pickup truck. When you look at that scene, there are no tools out to change the tire. The tire hasn't been removed from the SUV. Well, come to find out, those tires keep on running.

Matt Harris? They're called run-flat tires, and he may not even have had a spare. I'm still trying to figure out because a lot of those Mercedes SUVs don't even have a spare. Now, his attorney originally said he was out changing the tire. Then he released a statement after that that he was just inspecting the tire, which would make a big difference.

Because that way there wouldn't be a tire there, blah, blah, blah. He just went out to look at it. Still, the tire had to be, more than likely, had to be reporters, the knife used to slash the tire has been found. They're reporting. Straight out to forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan joining us. How would they be able, before I get to the implications of what this means, that clearly Alex Murdoch slashed his tire himself, staged the scene, therefore, ergo, staged his own shooting in the head, which turned out to be nearly a scrape. Why would he do that?

But first, let's talk about this knife. How would a forensic expert such as yourself know that a particular knife had been used to slash a particular tire? Well, you know, one of the things that we're going to look for, Nancy, are the dimensions of the actual cutting or slashing or puncturing on the surface of the tire. If say it's a one inch in width, okay, one of the things you're going to be looking for, obviously, is do we have a blade that's within access, easy access, that could have generated this specific kind of cut in the tire? Also, another way that we look for it is like matching tool marks. If there is a specific

pattern that's left behind that could be associated. Say if the knife was serrated, it had an edge like a traditional steak knife, for instance, that's going to leave a different pattern. And then thirdly, we would use a chemical comparison. Let's say, for instance, you have a blade that has taken away with it some of the rubber from the tire, the composite that puts this tire together, and you can chemically match these two things. That's another way that we look for these sorts of things. But I'm really surprised. They're saying they have linkage here, Nancy.

I'm really surprised at how quickly they turned this around. I'm thinking that it's some other reason other than this. Well, I know this much. Ashley Wilcott joining me, anchor Court TV. Ashley, there at the scene, it was very easy to observe SLED, South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, out in the weeds on either side of that two lane with a metal detector. A knife would have turned up with a metal detector. You would think so, right? And that's exactly what I think they were looking for. Some kind of tool, some kind of something that caused that. The other thing I have to say to you though, Nancy, the other aspect of this that I would consider is think about if somebody slashed your tire with a knife well enough, you wouldn't even get out of your driveway, right? Because your tire would be flat. And as

soon as you start driving, you would realize that your tire is completely flat. Now, if it's a little bit of a puncture wound caused by a knife, maybe it starts to go down gradually. But there's that part of the forensics I would want to know as well. And again, this SUV, Mercedes, had what we call a run flat or a flat drive. In other words, once you flat, you can keep driving. Again, on a tire like that, specifically designed for you to drive on it after it goes flat, in this particular SUV, you can reportedly drive 50 miles on a run flat. He was seven miles from home. And just, you know, out of curiosity, even in my beat-up minivan, when I turn it on, if one of the tires has a flat, a red mark comes up,

a red sign comes up on the tire. I mean, anybody can figure out, wow, there's something wrong with that tire because it's blinking red in this picture right in front of my face. So how did he miss that? Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me out. You're the shrink. Maybe we need one. You know, there is so much turmoil just swirling around this family. I am not surprised that SLED was out there in the field with a metal detector as soon as all of this went down. I mean, this guy seems really calculated

from the time his 22-year-old son was implicated in a friend's death, from the time his wife and son, you know, were killed with multiple gunshot wounds. it seems like there's just like a little fly buzzing in the back of his head saying how can I get out of this how can I get out of this and you know to feign a flat tire to feign being shot in the head I mean those are such obvious ways to extricate oneself from a crime it's like all of the people we've covered over the years whose wives or spouses show up missing and all of the people we've covered over the years whose wives or spouses show up missing and all of a sudden they say, oh, I tried to kill myself. And then they have scratches all over their wrists. So I just see like a whole story unfolding where he's trying to

think himself out of a box here, Nancy, and he's just not doing a very good job. No, he's not. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This, regarding the knife, is almost lost in the sauce with, as Dr. Bethany Marshall says, so much swirling around Alex Murdoch. But what does he say happened exactly when he claims a truck drives by on this lonely stretch of rural road, does a U-E, comes back and shoots him in the head? Take a listen to our friend Eva Pilgrim at GMA. Alec Murdoch was changing a tire on the side of the road in rural Hampton County Saturday when a car passed him, turned around, and someone shot him in the head. He was airlifted to a

hospital in Charleston. We are told he is conscious and speaking. Murdoch's brother sitting down with us back in June. Did they have any enemies? I really don't know of any enemies. You hear all this talk on the social media with regard to Paul, but I don't know of anybody that would truly be an enemy or truly want to harm them. Okay, so who took a shot at him and why? Straight back out to

Matt Harris joining us, WLNK. Matt, in the last hours, Alex Murdoch has also been booted from his law firm. He claimed he resigned, but the reality is they kicked him out for what they say is misappropriation of over $1 million of the law firm's money. Some reports say up to eight digits, okay, or more. What do you know? Friday they confronted him. This was the Friday before he was shot in the head. But it didn't come out till later. They confronted him about the drug use, about the money. And there was some sort of confrontation, but he did leave. And then just yesterday, the day before the bar has kicked him out to the money thing is all interesting because he indeed was doing this that he's accused of it all lines up with things we had heard over the past week or so where there was accounting

being done by maggie before she died to find out where money was and i got that from two different sources and also when maggie and paul shot, it was only three days before there was going to be a hearing about the boating accident that killed Mallory Beach. And in that boating accident, in that hearing, they were going to talk about money and funds and net worth and that sort of thing. So they would have been digging into money three days after the homicides of Maggie and Paul. So let me understand this, Matt Harris, joining us WLNK. Three days after the two bodies were found, Maggie and Paul, a trial was going forward on criminal charges of Paul Murdoch's part in driving drunk on a boat where Mallory Beach 19 is thrown overboard. Civil. Yes, thank you. Civil trial. During that civil trial,

evidence would be uncovered regarding the net worth of the Murdoch family. Is that right? That is correct. It was a hearing, a pre-trial hearing. Yes. As a matter of fact, take a listen to this. Into the Associated Press, the law firm Alex worked for claims that the lawyer was taking money from the business. That statement coming from PMPED law firm. And it came just hours after Murdoch said that he was resigning and entering rehab. The firm says it will hire an accounting firm to fully review its books. It didn't say how much money might be missing, but says Murdoch was no longer associated

with them in any way. Guys, you're hearing our friends at NBC News 10 to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us. Dr. Bethany Marshall, we have heard stories of, for instance, during the crash, people would jump out of windows and kill themselves because they didn't have their money anymore. What do you make of this?

His law firm has given him the boot. Now the South Carolina Bar Association has joined in. Now we learn that according to the New York Times and the AP, that Murdoch had siphoned off over a million dollars. Nancy, I think it's more likely not that he wanted to suicide or prematurely end his life because he had lost so much money, but that the noose was tightening around his neck. He seems to be a bad actor in so many areas of his life, from covering up for his son to maybe hiding from his wife, Maggie, who was doing the accounting for the family and from the firm. She may not have known how much money he was siphoning

off to defrauding his business partners. And this went back intergenerationally. As you can see, the Murdoch family was a very powerful family. So he was raised in a family milieu where people got away with things. And this may well be, Nancy, the first time in his life where, what would they call it, the chickens are coming home to roost, where he was getting into trouble. You know, when you have a history of continually getting away with things, of acting entitled, stealing money from other people, covering up for your child, and then all of a sudden people start to close in on you, whether it's the feds, whether it's the local police, whether it's the accounting at his local law firm. He may not have had the constitution for taking responsibility for himself. And I think that's what we're seeing is a very, very desperate man just scheming and scheming as to how he can get out of crime and punishment at this point. And who knows what else is lurking beneath the surface?

Who knows what else this man has done and what's going to come out in the upcoming days. I want to circle back to Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, regarding the subtle but significant change in wording. At the beginning, we were told that Alex Murdoch was out changing a flat. Then it got to inspecting a flat. And I find that very significant because of trajectory path of the bullet on his head. Explain. Yeah, you're right, Nancy. I'm glad you picked up on this. You know, if you think about the act of actually changing a tire, most people are squatted on the ground, aren't they? You know, they're using a wrench. They're trying to take the tire off, this sort of thing. Inspecting is completely different. That means you can kind of bend at your waist and look at it.

When you begin to think about this gunshot wound that he sustained, if you're squatted down, the trajectory from a, remember, this person was allegedly firing from a truck, which is going to be at a higher elevation. They're going to be firing from above to below. If he is inspecting, that means he can rise to his feet or come fully erect and they're firing straight on. You know, maybe he hadn't accounted for that, Nancy. Maybe, you know, in some wild fantasy, he thought that he could get away with that. If, in fact, that is what has happened by taking this weapon and firing it and giving kind of a graze wound here, the trajectory is going to be completely off. It completely changes the complexion of the investigation.

Right. You can tell from the trajectory path whether if he were squatted by the car trying to change tire and the bullet came from above, from within a truck driving by, the trajectory path would have been back to front, top to bottom. That's how it would have happened. Nancy, one more thing, please. Yes. One more thing about this that I find very fascinating. You realize that these statements relative to the changing of the tire, this GS, this gunshot wound, none of this stuff is coming from SLED. None of this stuff is coming from the local law enforcement. Who's this coming from? This is coming from his attorney. OK. And so now he's going to be sequestered away somewhere in this drug rehab thing that he's going to. And the only thing, the only comment that we have thus far is from the attorney, his mouthpiece. Another thing I noticed and jump in, Ashley Wilcott,

not only will the trajectory path of that bullet reveal whether he was shot from someone above him in a truck while he squatted down changing a tire, then that didn't work. Then the wording changed from changing a tire to inspecting a tire. I think it also had to do with plausibility because once we all got onto the fact that this is a Mercedes SUV that has a run flat, an extended mobility tire. You don't have to change for 50 miles when it goes flat. And suddenly the word is out. He didn't have to change a tire. He's seven miles from home. So instead of changing that tire, it makes more sense to say I was inspecting it. So it may be just to work on credibility. They probably haven't even taken into account the trajectory path of the bullet. This is what I love about you, Nancy Grace.

Lots of things. But this one, you always notice these little small details because the narrative has changed. And you're absolutely right. When does the narrative change? Like Joe Scott said, he is now a person of interest. All right. So he tells his attorney the version of the story. Well, then they realize, oh, wait, this new car, that doesn't really fit.

Let's change the wording. The narrative is being driven by the attorney for him. The other thing, two things I have to say. You say it, follow the money and desperate man. And those two things mean that they're now looking at this differently. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. If people in the crash would jump out of windows of skyscrapers in New York City

just because they were out of money, what will someone do if their law firm is on to them for embezzling millions? Their wife is on to it. She's asked for her own accounting, according to sources there in the area. The house of cards is falling in. And about 72 hours, there's going to be a court hearing where assets are delved into under oath.

So how does this all come about? Because we've got to follow this theory through to its logical conclusion. If Alex Murdoch did puncture his own tire, if he did shoot himself claiming he was shot by someone in a pickup truck, it wasn't a botched suicide, because why would you need to stab the tire? That's the big question right now. This is what happened that fateful afternoon. Take a listen to our cut three in. This is Justin Beagle, Live 5 News, WCSC. New information on the shooting of Alex Murdoch in Hampton County. According to the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, or SLED, Murdoch called the Hampton County Dispatch at 1 30 Saturday afternoon. In that call, SLED says Murdoch called the Hampton County Dispatch at 1.30 Saturday afternoon.

In that call, SLED says Murdoch told dispatchers he had been shot on Old Sakahachi Road near Varnville. According to SLED, Murdoch was flown to Memorial Health University Medical Center in Savannah for a superficial gunshot wound to the head. They say officers were called in to lead the investigation by the Hampton County Sheriff's Office. The shooting of Alex Murdoch comes nearly three months after his son and his wife were both found shot in Colleton County. 1.30 in the afternoon, unknown assailant comes along and shoots him in the head. He miraculously lives from a head gunshot wound and he is airlifted to Memorial Medical now mmh in savannah for a band-aid immediately puts himself in rehab matt harris joining me from wlnk you know the other morning when you and i were talking about were there any was there any video surveillance i know it's a

very rural road but i was asking at either end to the intersection, was there a business? Was there a red light that might have security video? And Sledbetter, trot on over there and get that video. What's the very latest Matt Harris? Well, as we were talking today, we looked it up and I got it figured out. You sure did. St. John's Baptist. I remember when you told me. Yep. And I understand that NBC is reporting that SLED went there and did indeed get video. Could you bring it down? Tell me that again very slowly.

OK, say that the church is I'm going to get it's like a fifteen hundred block or he was shot. Twenty four hundred block. Twenty four hundred block. And the church is the next block over. But it's not really a block because it's long straight away. But the church is there. It's a big church, as you noticed when we were talking about it. We pulled up the photos and now I hear that NBC has reported that SLED got video from that church. To Joe Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, if this is true, okay, I give you all the credit, Matt Harris, because when I was talking about is there a red light, is there a ring video, is there a red light video, is there a business at either end with the video,

you're the one that figured out St. John's Baptist Church would be toward the end, not that far away of the incident. And yes, this was on a Saturday afternoon, but those video surveillance cameras often run 24-7, 365 So, Joe Scott Morgan, what, if anything, would SLED be looking for on that video? A truck, perhaps? Oh, yeah. They fit the jackpot here, Nancy. If, in fact, they have recovered videography that details that road out there that passes by the church, and let me tell you why that video is going to be timestamped. You take that and you combine it with the information that they're going to have off of his phone when this call was initiated back into the 911 center. And you can actually extrapolate the timeframe for which a truck would have passed in front of that camera.

Okay, because you have him calling in, I would assume that he's calling in saying, I've been shot, we haven't heard that sound yet, but I've been shot, it was a truck, that sort of thing. He's giving this information, and that's detailed information that you can look and see and validate it vis-a-vis the ring cam, not just that way, but also with the time. And so you're oriented on two separate locations on the timeline. And this is going to be damning information. Maybe he didn't count on it. I don't know. But there's not a lot of traffic on this road, Nancy. It's a two-lane country road

out in the middle of nowhere. It would be argued that that's why it was selected because it's in the middle of nowhere, a very long circuitous route between Varnville and Charleston when he could have just gone point A to point B. Hey, this is what they'll argue. This is what would be argued. And again, no one has been arrested. No one has been named a suspect at all, including Alex Murdoch. We are talking about his story that he was shot in the head by an unknown assailant when he was out changing slash inspecting his car on a rural route. Is that true? He put it out there and we're picking it apart. So this would be the response, Joe Scott. Oh, the assailant. I didn't tell you which way they came. They didn't come the church way.

They came the other way. There you go. Yeah. But if he made this U-turn, if he made this U-turn, Nancy, there is still a high likelihood that they could have come from the other direction as well. The church would have picked it up. There's only one way in. I mean, two ways in, two ways out. I don't think that he could have that. You can argue that definitively before a jury and have them actually buy into it.

I think it's a stretch. Well, this is what I would argue to a jury, Ashley Wilcott. If I were prosecuting, I would say, yeah, there is a way in on this end and a way in to the shooting on this end. It's 50-50. Who do you believe? I just, I wouldn't try to hide it. I'd put it to them just the way it is. Yeah, because remember, you're going to be able, Nancy, you're going to be able to show motive.

And so when you say, okay, 50-50, that's great. But when you add the other circumstances that we're learning about, the money trail, the deception, the number of different deaths, right? At what point is it not coincidence? At what point you have a horrible tragedy that his son was driving drunk. That's not the tragedy. There was a death in that as a result of his son's actions. And then his wife and son are murdered. And now he's shot in the head. It starts to add up and not in a good way for him. The only thing we're missing is a mistress. Who just said that? Knock on wood, Nancy. Knock on wood. Dr. Bethany. Dr. Bethany, you know, you're all up in it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are learning that the South Carolina who claims he was

shot in the head by an unknown assailant after his son and wife were murdered, also shot in the head, has not only been kicked out of his law firm for allegedly misappropriating funds, the South Carolina Bar Association has gotten in on it. Take a listen to our friends at ABC 11. Twist in the mystery surrounding a double murder involving a prominent family from South Carolina. Alex Murdaugh, whose wife and son were killed in June and who called 911 over the weekend saying he was shot in the head, is now breaking his silence. Releasing a statement saying the murders of my wife and son have caused an incredibly difficult time in my life. I've made a lot of decisions that I truly regret. I'm resigning from my law firm and entering rehab after a long battle that has been exacerbated by these murders. I'm immensely sorry to everyone I've hurt, including my family, friends and colleagues. And now ABC News learning Alex has resigned from his family law firm after

it was discovered he had misappropriated money from the firm. On Saturday, Alex was airlifted to the hospital after calling police to say he'd been shot in the head in broad daylight while he was changing attire on the side of the road. Authorities say he suffered a superficial gunshot wound to the head. He's now out of the hospital and entering rehab. It's unclear what kind of rehab. Back in June, Alex called 911 saying he had found the bodies of his wife Maggie and 22-year-old son Paul at the family's hunting lodge. Now the South Carolina bar has kicked him

out but let me point out is only an suspension. And Murdoch himself consented to the order. He has been suspended from practicing law interim. And Ashley Wilcott, it's my understanding, why do they love throwing around legal phrases, Latin phrases? Interim means for right now, like an intermission, intermittent. It's not permanent. Is that your understanding, Ashley? That's absolutely what it is, intermittent. It's not permanent. Is that your understanding, Ashley? That's absolutely what it is, Nancy. And the reason that that's important,

two things I want to point out. Yes, you're right. It's interim, but it's also his choice. He went to them proactively. He's smart. I would do the same thing if I were, God forbid, in these circumstances, which I never expect to be.

But because it's his control, again, who's controlling the narrative? He control. Again, who's controlling the narrative? He is. And how is he controlling the narrative? All right, just because there are all these circumstances and I'm not at fault and I'm not guilty, but just to make it easier for everyone, I'll do the right thing. And proactively, I understand. Well, I don't know that he asked for the suspension.

Why do you believe he asked for it, Ashley? I don't know, but you can do it. Why do you believe he asked for it, Ashley? I don't know, but you can do it. I don't think he asked for it. Because I understood that he, quote, consented to the suspension. And I was curious as to the standard of proof you need to go before a state bar and say, look, he stole money from the firm. Because there has been no hearing at all. But I do know this, the South Carolina Bar Association, the Supreme Court stated, quote, upon receipt of sufficient evidence

demonstrating a lawyer poses a substantial, substantial threat of serious harm to the public or the administration of justice, the Supreme Court may place the lawyer on interim suspension. Now, I don't know that they got evidence to make a permanent finding, but I think the law firm presented them with evidence. I mean, what do you know, Matt? How did he get suspended from law practice? I do not know how that i mean the the uh law firm said right away that they had gone straight to uh the bar gone straight to

law enforcement and they had made sure that they were on top of it because i'm sure that they don't want to be right with him any longer yes is it the firm, his own family's law firm? Yeah, but there are other lawyers in it. Because when your own family turns against you, you know, it really says that there's a lot that's been brewing. Speaking of lawyers, Dr. Bethany, your point is well taken. Then he has family members in the law firm. It was founded by, I think, his grandfather. But his lawyer, Jim Griffin, says that, quote, this type of order is standard in cases where there are credible allegations of misappropriation of client funds

or when the lawyer is incapacitated due to substance abuse. So is he setting up some sort of substance abuse defense? But back to you, Matt Harris, joining us, WLNK. Again, we are dissecting facts as we learn them. Alex Murdoch has not been charged. He has not been accused of wrongdoing. He is not a person of interest or suspect in Maggie and Paul's murders. Let's talk about his gunshot wound to the head and what does

it mean? A, was it self-inflicted? B, if so, was it a botched suicide attempt or an attempt to deflect focus off him, suggesting that his wife and son's killer came back for him. Let's think it through. You know, one thing, as well as anyone, I've talked to a couple of attorneys yesterday for doing the podcast, and messing with trust is one of the things that you did in law school, right? The Bar Association lets you get away with forcing your clients into sex as payment. Just all sorts of bad dealing. But you mess with money, you are out. The lawyers do not tolerate you messing with their money.

That's exactly right. And so the hammer would come down swift and heavy quickly. So let's follow this through to its logical conclusion. What if this was self-inflicted? Why? Where was the shot fired? We'll find out. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.