Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL: KOHBERGER BUYS DICK'S BLACK BALACLAVA, SAME MASK DRAWN BY SURVIVOR

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

In the plethora of court documents filed in the last week, more of the prosecution’s case against Bryan Kohberger has been revealed. The state plans to enter a wide variety of evidence ranging from Kohberger’s educational records dating back to his time at Desales University, transactions made through Kohberger’s bank and Venmo, weather data from the night of the murders, and hours of surveillance footage. The defense desperate to have the evidence tossed.   The defense is filing to block the various pieces of evidence, claiming the state has delivered thousands of pages of documents and terabytes of video with no context of how it will be used against Kohberger in court. Anne Taylor is demanding the judge order prosecutors to explain how each item is relevant. Taylor says otherwise, it is ‘impossible’ for Kohberger to effectively confront this evidence.  In arguments against its inclusion, the defense reveals that prosecutors plan to enter into evidence records from Kohberger’s graduate studies in psychology at DeSales University. The filing says they have received discovery including Kohberger's school calendar, written course work, testing, emails, and syllabi from his time as a master’s student, and the attorneys fail to see its relevance. As part of his thesis, Kohberger worked with professors to develop a survey exploring how emotions influence a criminal’s decision making during the commission of a violent crime.   Kohberger also wants weather data from the night of the murders to be kept from the jury. The state plans to use records from the National Weather Service for November 12 and 13 to show Kohberger wouldn’t have had much luck “stargazing,” as his vague alibi claims. The reports, taken at the Pullman-Moscow Regional Airport, located roughly halfway between the two college towns, show fog, reduced visibility and low clouds at the time of the murders. Meteorologists say the fog was not thick enough to impede travel, but the night sky would only be clearly visible between breaks in the clouds.   A recent court filing also shows that defense attorneys want Venmo, PayPal, and bank records for the accused quadruple killer blocked from court. While the exact contents of these records are not discussed, the filing mentions a purchase from Under Armor on June 24, 2022, 5 months before the murders, and a purchase from Dick's sporting goods in the same month. The records likely also show Kohberger’s purchase of the Kabar knife suspected to be the weapon used in the murders.     Joining Nancy Grace today: Greg Morse - Partner at the law firm of King Morse; current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida); Former West Palm Beach Public Defender’s Office; Author: “The Untested” found on Amazon; website: kingmorse.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,”  featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips  Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic Sydney Sumner, Crime Online Investigative Reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A bombshell in the Brian Koberger defense. Did Brian Koberger actually buy a Dick's Sporting Good black balaclava? Why do I care? Because it's the exact same mask drawn by the survivor witness who lived through the murders that night. This as Koberger fights tooth and nail to suppress a 12 page paper. Why? He wrote the paper in school and it describes multiple murders, including the murder of a white female with what else? A knife. Even including details that she, the white female would dig her fingernails into her killer's skin and likely reveal DNA. Too close for comfort, Koberger?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Can I have a location of your emergency? Hi, something just happened to me. Something happened to my house and we don't know what. What is the address of your emergency. Hi, something just happened to me. Something happened to my husband. We don't know what. What is the address of the emergency?

1122T road. That 911 call brings us all back to the reality of what happened to four beautiful University Idaho students slaughtered, as some say, butchered in their own beds. And now the man charged with all four murders is fighting tooth and claw to keep one tiny Dick's sporting good purchase away from a jury. Why? I think I know why. Listen. No one is answering. I'm really confused right now.

Yeah, dude, what the f***? Zanna was wearing all black. I'm freaking out right now. No, it's like a ski mask almost. Shut the f*** up. Actually? Like, he had something over his forehead and mouth. Bethany, I'm not kidding.

I'm so freaked out. So am I. My phone is going to die. Come to my room. Run down here. I'm screwed though. Yeah, I know, but it's better than being alone. What you just heard is the contents of text messages that were exchanged between the two survivors that were in the scene of the murder that were there that night, their four roommates were murdered. That's between Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk. Now, Dylan Mortensen is describing he had something over his forehead and mouth. I'm so freaked out. She goes on later. Um, how can I say this? Okay. You've seen on TV or crime shows, a movie maybe where the witnesses is drawing, help to draw a composite and they go, oh no, the nose is too long. The ears are too big. The eyebrows are this,

the mouth is different. She draws with her own hands, the balaclava that the intruder was wearing that night. I guess they are fighting to keep that sketch and that purchase out. Joining me in All-Star panel to make sense of what we know right now, Koberger trying to suppress a slew of evidentiary items. Listen. A recent court filing shows that defense attorneys want Venmo, PayPal, and bank records for the accused quadruple killer blocked from court. While the exact content of these records are not discussed, the filing mentions a purchase from Under Armour on June 24, 2022, five months before the murders,

and a purchase from Dick's Sporting Goods in the same month. The records likely also show Koberger's purchase of the K-Bar knife suspected to be the weapon used in the murders. We were trying to determine what is it about these purchases that they want so desperately to suppress. Oh, did I mention a replacement knife? While a court filing last week confirmed that Kohlberger purchased a K-Bar knife and sharpener eight months prior to the murders. A new filing alleges that Kohlberger's Amazon click history also proves he was searching for a replacement in the weeks after the murders. Defense attorneys may be planning to counter the evidence with arguments that Amazon's algorithm simply suggested an item based on

his previous purchase history. You know, sometimes you just have so much evidence. You don't know which way to go straight out to Chris McDonough joining me. You know him well. I found him on the interview room. He's the star of that on YouTube. But more important, he's the director of the Cold Case Foundation, and he has worked over 300 homicides. You first wave the red flag about Amazon purchases. I guess you've heard about the balaclava. I'm going to circle back to that. But you went through an intense discussion and analysis of purchases on Amazon. And now we know why Chris McDonough, the replacement knife. That's why they wanted that suppressed so desperately. He leaves the crime scene. According to police, he's driving

that long circuitous route that you and I both driven in the middle of the night, no streetlights. I nearly ran off the road three times. Then he goes, well, well, whoa, wait, where is the knife sheath? So what does he do? It's the clicks. You said it first, Chris McDonough. He doesn't want the jury to know he was looking for a replacement knife. He had already bought a knife, a sheath, and now we know a knife sharpener. That's why they don't want us to know about the clicks. Chris? Absolutely, Nancy. And what's interesting about this is for some reason they were on top of that almost within two weeks after the homicides. And they, you know, they served a search warrant in November 26. And the search warrant returned December 8 of 2022. And so the defense here has been working

full time, you know, to try to suppress those clicks uh because that is just just damning evidence and you're right he he then went back to try to order a second looks like you know knife and or sheath uh as kind of the old bait and switch if the authorities were on to it uh once he discovered he actually lost, if he's the guy, of course, if he lost that, you know, sheath at the crime scene. Right. Hey, you know, Chris McDonough, when I was watching you on your show, The Interview Room, you and your guests were going on and on about the analytical data of Amazon. I'm like, where is this going? I forced myself to listen to it. Of course, I was interested in it because I love any type of evidence. If I don't even

understand it at the moment, I sense that it's important. And I could tell by what you were saying, those clicks, that data was going to be very important because it didn't necessarily result in a purchase, but he's looking to replace the sheath that he left behind. Okay, hold on. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville state university,

author of blood beneath my feet on Amazon star of body bags with Joe Scott Morgan. But for my purposes, he's a death investigator that has investigated over 1000 death scenes. Joe Scott, you have been taking a very close look at that K-Bar knife. And I'm wondering, in your analysis, could you buy the sheath separately or does it come with the knife? It comes with the knife. Actually, my beautiful bride, God bless her, actually bought this knife for me and surprised me with it.

And it's not normally the type of gift that you get from someone who cares about you. But she knew that we had been covering this case and she wanted me to have this just so that I could have it and feel the weight of it, this sort of thing. And it comes with the sheath, Nancy. So if you were to purchase a sheath separate, it would have to come from the manufacturer. You would have to order it specifically or go out to some vendor out there somewhere that could probably furnish you with maybe a knockoff, but it's certainly not the original K-bar knife. You know, I asked my husband for a flamethrower for Christmas and he didn't give me one. I'm going to use this as an example of the perfect gift.

Let me think this through. Let me think this through. Cheryl McCollum is joining me, Cold Case Investigative Research Institute founder, forensic expert and star of Zone 7 podcast. Cheryl, I can't wait to see what those clicks are. I haven't even gotten to the balaclava yet. Okay. I'm getting there, but the clicks, the clicks, I'm like, it's a Rubik's cube and I'm a Rubik's cube and I'm trying to make it fit right now. Do you think Cheryl that he was clicking through trying to find a replacement sheath? Or was he trying to find out if he could buy it separately from the knife? Was he going to buy a whole new knife and

a sheath to go, look, here it is. There's not any blood on it. What do you think, Cheryl? That's exactly what he was attempting to do, in my opinion. He needed a replacement because the murder weapon, he had to get rid of it because it was saturated with blood. He knew he had lost or left the sheep behind. He had to have a replacement. No doubt about it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, a Brian Koberger purchase at Dick's Sporting Goods is offering bombshell evidence in this case. You know, Greg Morse joining me. He is a high profile lawyer

that's tried more cases probably than he can count. Greg Morse, partner at King Morse, author of The Untested on Amazon. Greg, I know how you and your friends in the defense bar love to discredit an eyewitness. In fact, it's so commonly done. It's laid out in black and white in the criminal code as if it's law, the ways to attack an eyewitness. Oh, do you wear glasses? Were you wearing them that night? How far away were you from the scene? What was the lighting? Were you distracted? Were you inebriated? Were you on prescription drugs or anything else? It's like one, two, three, four. It's by rote. But what about this?

What about this with no urging, no urging, no tutorial? You have the survivor. It's Dylan Mortensen. And she's texting that night, that night she has just seen the intruder. She cracks her door and looks out and she sees him. And I guess she shut it and moved back. She is the witness that describes the intruder dressed in dark clothing, tall white male with bushy eyebrows. That night she says, basically at the time of the murders, he had something over his forehead and mouth. I'm not kidding. I'm so freaked out. Then she draws,

let's take a look at her drawing. I sent you a picture of it, Greg, because I knew it would send chills down your spine. She draws a balaclava. And guess who buys a balaclava? Do you have a balaclava? Do you? I'm just curious. I don't. Do you?

I have three of them. Don't lie. Because I'm a skier, so I have three of them. Yes. Very common thing to buy, especially in Idaho for the winter where the weather is cold. The way to attack this is the commonality of it. I saw the drawing she made, the person made. It's a common thing. It's nothing unique about it. And the way to challenge this, to try to keep it out, which is very difficult, is that you're going to show this is a common

purchase by people. There's no linking it to the case. There's no linking this specific one co-worker bought to this case. So it's a generic mask that probably hundreds of thousands of people have purchased from Dick's over the years, maybe millions. So that's how you challenge it. It's very common. I've dealt with this with guns. When a.38 is used to kill someone and there's no ballistics and they find a.38 at the suspect house, you challenge it on its commonality that it's prejudicial to introduce it and link it to the defendant in the particular case. Okay, Greg Morse. Well done. Very well done.

Let me throw this at you. What about the purchase of a K-bar knife and a sheath and a balaclava? Hit me. Well, Nancy, I've been doing this for 25 years and my job has gotten much harder. This is a criminology major. So I would flip the motive, which is pretty clear for the prosecution. He was doing a Leopold and Logue type thing that he knew about it and decided to buy this knife afterwards for his studies or something. Wait, wait, rewind, rewind. Sadly, I'm going to hold you to the facts.

Sidney Summer joining me, a crime stories investigative reporter, Sidney. He's half right and half wrong. He's right about a balaclava. Let's just say in Idaho, maybe many people have them to ski. But then let's throw in the clicking for a replacement knife and sheath. But he said that was after the murders. But isn't it true, Sidney Sumner, that Koberger purchased a K-bar knife exactly like the one that was used in the murders

based on the sheath that was left behind far prior to the murders. In fact, as I recall, he bought the knife and the sheath back in March of 2022. I mean, eight months before the murders. Yes, Nancy, that's quite a long time to have that knife in your possession before doing this. And the balaclava was purchased even further back. seven months before on Jan 10, 22, he makes the knife sheath purchase eight months before March, 2022. We also have, I don't know if this is going to come into evidence or not, the purchase of one of those Dickey outfits, which there you go, which you can very easily just zip down and get out of it and then throw it away. Then we've got the clicking and attempted purchase of a replacement knife and sheath after the murders. Okay. Do I have those dates? Correct. Because Morse is right. You can

fight back on the balaclava. Yeah, I get it. But can can fight back on the balaclava. Yeah, I get it. But can you fight back on the balaclava that the witness describes identical to that purchase? The knife, the sheath, the Dickies uniform, the replacement knife, the replacement sheath. I mean, it's adding up, Sydney. Absolutely, Nancy. It's very overwhelming, and the defense is fighting tooth and nail to keep all of this out. Their latest arguments, just last night, that the Amazon

account is shared by co-workers' family members. Tell me exactly what's going on. One of the roommates has passed out, and she was drunk last night, and she's not waking up. Oh, and they saw some men in their house last night. Yeah. Did you see the video of two of the victims at the grub truck?

It was late in the night, the morning, going into the morning hours that they were murdered in their own beds. For some reason, Brian Koberger's defense team is trying to suppress this and a lot of other video, which we're going to get to. I believe much of that video is going to show his vehicle en route to the murder scene. But can I just comment for our guests? Shopping lists are murder. That's the general consensus when it comes to Brian Koberger. We've been talking about the Amazon clicks. We've been talking about Dick's Sporting Good. It goes on and on. But when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. I believe we're going to find many other items in Koberger's records.

He's trying to suppress, isn't this right, Sydney Summer? PayPal purchases, Venmo purchases, Amazon purchases and searches, and much more. There's going to be more that we find that is damning in Brian Koberger's shopping list. I think that's absolutely true, Nancy. They still have not unsealed any information,

any reasoning as to why all of Koberger's financial records are relevant to the case and what evidence they will produce. The defense has made a small comment that it's supposed to show his spending habits. But other than that, we don't know why all of these bank records have been pulled. I guarantee you we're going to find cleaning supplies. Joining me, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute. I'm sure you recall our investigation into Brian Walsh after the murder and, I believe, dismemberment of his wife, Anna. Her body has never been found. Listen to what he bought at Lowe's, Cheryl.

Five five-gallon buckets, a handsaw, 48 cherry cloth towels, a Tyrek full-coverage suit, shoe guards, mop, a cutting tool called snips, 200 disposable rags, trash bags, Murphy oil soap. Then he goes to another store. Yeah, let's sprinkle it around. Oh, there he is. Look at that. That was the purchase at Lowe's. And there he is. Uh, at CVS, he buys 13 different types of hydrogen peroxide. Then he goes to Stop and Shop, three 64 ounce jugs of ammonia. He goes to Home Goods, three area rugs and scented candles. I believe one of his searches was how long till the body starts to smell. At Home Depot, just to round it out, three five-gallon buckets with leak-proof lids, a hatchet, plastic sheeting, 24 pounds of baking soda, and another Tyrek suit.

Wow. Talk about some cleanup, Cheryl McCollum. That was Brian Walsh, and I'm very curious why with all of his analysis, you know, there's just nothing like the real thing, right, Cheryl? You can study about it all the way through your PhD. But when it comes right down to committing mass murder, details, the devil is in the details, Cheryl McCollum. Always. And Nancy, this is going to go straight into the prosecution's timeline. You know, you may look at Israel Key's list and think, oh, this guy's going camping, till you know how to read it. When you look at the purchases and the searches, those are really going to be critical. And you've got a knife with a sheath and the mask.

It's not just, you know, something for skiing. And when you're looking at Koberger specifically and the eyewitness that he left alive in her drawing, this, you know, overall shopping list is a roadmap to his plotting and planning of this murder. And these things are going to be weaved into this timeline, just like his cell phone pings and his traffic tickets. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, I believe that there are certain personalities, and this does not rise to an insanity defense. They can't help but very compulsively, some would say anal compulsively, make plans. I'm sure you recall it's in your jurisdiction.

That's why I save this for you. Robert Blake, who absolutely orchestrated the murder of his wife, Bonnie Lee Bakley. Listen to his shopping list. Now, I got this from the prosecutor's complaint against him. He had his henchperson Caldwell purchase a grisly shopping list. two shovels, a small sledge, a crowbar, a 25 caliber gun, old rugs, duct tape, Drano, pool acid, and lye. And he wrote it down in a list, Bethany. I wonder, you know, Koberger had to make a list. Warning, he's innocent until proven guilty. But can they not help themselves? Nancy, you talked about the meticulous planning. And as I've said so many times before on your show, sociopaths and in particular psychopaths,

they're the same as sociopaths, but you have the addition of cruelty in terms of their personality. They are very empty internally. They don't get excited by the things you and I do. And because of that, they use cruelty to get sexual excitement. Nancy, listen to Robert Blake. It would have been so much cheaper just to get a divorce, right? I mean, you know, just to send her on her merry way.

But no, he wanted to, he wanted her off this earth. He didn't want her anywhere around. That's a little bit different from Brian Koberger, who I believe actually, this was very thrilling for him. So I think what we're going to find on his computer is S&M porn, rape videos, maybe child pornography. I'm going to be very interested in what motivates him sexually, what we see on his computer in his digital life, that how that also links him to the crime. We also know about Natalie Keepers and David Eisenhower plotting the murder of a little 12 or 13 year old girl, Nicole Lovell. And they go to, I think, a barbecue joint and make a list

of all the cleaning supplies and items they're going to need to kill the little girl and to clean up. Her body was found naked on the side of the road. It had been wiped down. There's Nicole. Wiped down with wet wipes. So, you know, Sidney Sumner, the shopping list is damning for Brian Koberger. Absolutely. There's just no way around this, Nancy. It's information that's been speculated or known for a long time. And it's really interesting to see it coming together in the state's case, because how do you explain that? I mean, I was talking about this with my fiance last night. He has a balaclava for hunting when it's dark. You want to keep the rest of your face as dark as possible when you're sitting in a

blind hunting a deer. What other reasonable explanation do you have for a balaclava? We said skiing earlier. Idaho does get cold. But I asked him, would you ever wear this in public if you weren't doing something that required it if you weren't skiing if you weren't hunting would you ever wear this out and his flat answer is no why would I ever have a reason to own this to use this on a regular basis not for that purpose she's not waking up In addition to damning shopping lists indicated by clicks on Amazon, Dick's Sporting Good at Under Armour,

we don't know why the defense wants to suppress purchases at Under Armour yet, but we'll find out. In addition to that, the defense is fighting tooth and claw to suppress a 12-page assignment paper that Kohlberger wrote in 2020 and more. Listen. In arguments against its inclusion, the defense reveals that prosecutors plan to enter into evidence records from Kohlberger's graduate studies in psychology at DeSales University. The filing says they have received discovery including Kohlberger's school calendar, written coursework, testing, emails, and syllabi from his time as a master's student, and the attorneys failed to see its relevance. As part of his theses, Kohlberger worked with professors to develop a survey

exploring how emotions influence a criminal's decision-making during the commission of a violent crime. It's not just the creepy survey he sent out to violent felons asking them about how they felt at the time of the crime, what went through their mind, how did they pick their target, how did they get out, how did they plan the whole thing? Very, very detailed questioning. But now a 12-page assignment paper has emerged, and the defense is fighting to keep it suppressed away from the jury. City Sumner, what is it? Nancy, so this comes as a filing from the state rebutting the defense's recent, hey, you've given us all of this discovery. It's so much information. What are you trying to do with this? It has to be kept out because I can't figure out what you are going to use in court

so the state came back and said here is exactly what we plan to use in court and filed this 12 page Assignment from co-worker that he completed as a master's student at DeSales University and this assignment it's unclear exactly what the instructions are, if this was a scenario that the professor came up with, but Koberger's job was to go through every single step to secure and process that crime scene for evidence. So it's a list and list and list of bullet points of what needs to be done and what order, what tools you need, what to look for. So it's very detailed and it's coincidentally a staffing. Prosecutors want to use a school paper that allegedly details a crime scene very similar to the crime scene in the Idaho sleigh. Now listen to this Sheryl McCollum.

He states in the paper as if he were processing the same, I should make sure to swab under her, the white female murder victim, her fingernails to see if DNA of the offender is there. She likely dug into his skin, he wrote. In excruciating details, he describes how first responders should handle the crime scene. Using as an example, what else? A deceased white female. Murder weapon? A knife. Yep. This is absolutely going to be something that the prosecution is going to highlight because it shows he had knowledge. He had knowledge of where DNA could be found and located on a murder victim. And then they're going to show the purchase of the clothing and the mask and gloves and other items to prevent that very thing from happening.

What about it? Straight back to you, Greg Morse. How do you defeat bringing this in? It's basically a blueprint of the murders. So this is a common issue today. It deals with rap lyrics. The most recent case is Alanis V. U. S. where rap lyrics are allowed to come in. And I think the paper, the defense has a really hard time. Their main argument would be that there's no crime that occurred when the paper was written, that it was after the crime. So in the rap lyric cases, the lyrics talk about a crime that already occurred and specifically, and that's how the prosecutors are getting this in. So I would defend this on. It's irrelevant. It happened before the crime, years before. It's not. It was for a class that he was authorized, you know, asked to write this

paper. It doesn't provide any direct evidence to the crimes, but it's a very hard it's going to be very hard for the defense to challenge this. Relevance, relevance. He describes a white female victim at a murder scene, digging her nails into her killer and that an EMT or a scene processor like Cheryl McCollum should get fingernail clippings from the victim for potential DNA. That's why it's relevant. Listen. Brian Koberger's defense team has revealed a major curveball for his upcoming trial. A newly unsealed court filing discloses that investigators found three unknown profiles from DNA underneath victim Madison Mogan's fingernails. Clippings from Mogan's left hand unearthed the samples, but testing has not determined who they belong to.

Comparisons of the profiles to Koberger's DNA were inconclusive. The accused quadruple killer has not been confirmed or excluded as a source. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace the defense also wants almost all video evidence tossed claiming there's no way they can review it in time for trial at the crux of their argument is possibly a key piece of evidence footage from a nearby apartment complex on linda lane just after 4 a.m. November 13, 2022. The footage shows a white sedan outside 1122 King Road. However, in its raw form, that footage alone is 12 hours long, and defense attorneys say it will be impossible for them to pinpoint the relevant clips.

Okay, that's total BS. In many cases, especially when you have something like a wiretap or a stakeout, that video or audio can go on for hours and hours and hours. That's why you're getting paid to listen to it and figure out what, if anything, is relevant. Hello, Ann Taylor. That's your job. Quit whining. But let's talk about the video itself, specifically video from a nearby apartment at Linda Lane, straight out to Chris McDonough joining me, veteran homicide investigator, star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris, you and I have tromped through that neighborhood. Now, I don't even know how many hours. And I noticed, I didn't understand the relevance of it, how close all of the buildings are to each other.

As I stood in front of the King Road crime scene, I could look across and tell you the type of dishwashing liquid sitting in the kitchen window of the apartment across the street. It was the green palm olive, by the way, and I could see it. So I guarantee you this video from Linda Lane, an apartment nearby, it's got to be something damning. Hey, let's see those still shots from the video that we're talking about. Could you describe this area, Chris McDonough? Absolutely, Nancy. And you have stood there and it is a lot closer than what it appears from like a Google map or something like that. That area is, you know, it's off housing campus or excuse me, it's off campus housing for students. It's surrounded by a couple of apartment buildings. Look on, Chris. Look at your monitor. We're showing it right now.

And this is from the Veritas Aquitas YouTube channel. Check it out. And I guarantee you this is going to be blown up like nobody's business. So the jury can see it. This is one of many. Okay, go ahead, dear. Okay, so if you're driving straight up past 1122, you get to this apartment complex at the end of like a mini cul-de-sac. And then that's where this car is turning.

And if you can complete that turn all the way around, it will take you behind the residents at 1122, where you could actually park. And I think in this particular shot here, he's actually going to the end. It appears the car is backing up and then coming straight back down and parking in front of 1122. So you can get to the residence either way. If you want to peek on the residence, you can park behind it. If you want to surveil the residence, you can also park in front of it.

Cheryl McCollum, you and I investigated the glam yoga teacher, Caitlin Armstrong. Her SUV was caught going around and around and around the scene of the crime just after the murder victim had walked in. Same thing here, Cheryl McCollum. Reportedly, and again, Koberger, he's innocent right now in the eyes of Lady Justice. And he remains innocent until he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law by a jury of his peers. That said, we're not in a court of law. So let's talk about it. The video apparently catches him circling round and round and round, much like Caitlin Armstrong did. And it's not just this one video.

There's more. Oh, by the way, this is from Veritas Akito's YouTube channel. Go ahead, Cheryl. The video is paramount. It not only shows time of day and location, it shows how he slows down. It shows how the car does the K-turn. They're going to cross-check that again, Nancy,

with cell phone pings. They're going to cross-check it again with the traffic ticket. And I want to come back to that traffic ticket, the one that he got in August, where it's midnight. He's just a minute or so away from the murder house, and he's getting a ticket for not having his seatbelt on. My theory is because he's getting in and out of his car, stalking these young people.

All of this, the video, the cell phones, the traffic tickets, goes to the plotting and the planning and the stalking that he did prior to these murders. It's not uncommon. Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez. Speaking of forensics, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, I want to jump off what Cheryl McCollum was just saying. It's not just this video he wants suppressed. It's a whole series of videos. I'm telling you what I think they're doing, And you and I discussed this with Cheryl a while back.

And I think you were in on it too, Chris McDonough. I think they're pulling a photos Dulos. Remember Dulos who murdered his wife, the mother of five of his children, Jennifer Dulos. That LE put together a hodgepodge, a patchwork quilt that turned out beautifully of him getting in the car and they've got a red light cam and then they've got a surveillance video at a store. Then they've got a stoplight cam.

There's even a shot of Dulos going by in the vehicle with her DNA in the backseat when a public bus opens the door and you see Dulos going by and they put together a story in video because as Cheryl was just saying, you've got this video from Linda Lane. Then you've got the video from the 7-Eleven where you see him go by like four o'clock in the morning and there's more video they're trying to suppress. I think that's what they're doing. Yeah, I agree. And not only that, they're attempting, the defense that is, they're attempting to, you know, try to try to anchor the narrative in their favor. Obviously, that's what they have to do. But they're even changing language, Nancy, about this case. They want a lot of the stuff excluded. We got into this, I think, probably

about eight days ago. I'd urge anybody to go back and watch that episode where we were talking about the language that's being used. And one of the things that really stood out to me, Nancy, was this idea going back to the knife sheath. They actually want to exclude the term touch DNA. So all of us in our field and others, we're supposed to exclude what is common language for us so that it doesn't paint him in a bad light. And all of this, all of this evidence, whether it's videography or the physical evidence or the purchases, it paints him in a very, very negative light. And so that's what they're trying to do with this, to try to throw a grenade into the room and try to disrupt this. All they need is one little bit here, one little bit to dissuade any jurors that might be on the fence. Kohlberger also wants weather data from the night of the murders to be kept from the jury. The state plans to use records from the National Weather Service for November 12 and 13 to show Kohlberger wouldn't have had much luck stargazing, as his vague alibi

claims. The reports taken at the Pullman Moscow Regional Airport, located roughly halfway between the two college towns, show fog, reduced visibility and low clouds at the time of the murders. Meteorologists say the fog was not thick enough to impede travel, but the night sky would only be clearly visible between breaks in the clouds. That's right. Idaho prosecutors planning to undercut Brian Koberger's alibi based on stargazing. I will never forget when that came out. You know what? It's karma, some would argue. The weather was terrible that night. Sidney Sumner, the weather, according to the National Weather Institute, does not support. In fact, it destroys Koberger's alibi. He was out stargazing. Nancy, that's what we believed from the beginning. That's what you've said over and over again. The easiest way to disprove that he was stargazing was whether

or not you could see the sky that night and you couldn't, according to this weather report. And that's taken from the Moscow Pullman Airport. That's pretty much directly in the center between those two towns. We drove that highway, Highway 270. It's directly in the middle. So wherever he was in weather service records for November 12 and 13, 2022 as evidence. Apparently, the area was shrouded in low clouds. Fog reduced visibility at the time of the murders. Not much stargazing to be had. Hey, let's take a look at a new piece of evidence. It's Brian Koberger's driver's license that popped up in the reams of evidence that we have been reviewing. I noticed that he's an organ donor. Jessica Morgan, can you be an organ donor after the

death penalty? Here's my take. I've participated in assisting in three autopsies of individuals that went through capital punishment. And you say, well, why would you do that? Well, it's still a homicide. All three of those cases I assisted in were in Georgia. And there's not much that you could do with the remains. You can donate perhaps skin, maybe eyes. Well, it's going to be the firing squad, if anything. It's not going to be electrocution.

No, no, it's not. And they are asking for the firing squad. And it's possible that some elements of the body could be donated. However, the problem is if there's any thought that you're going to put him on a vent and harvest a heart or take kidneys or liver or anything like that, that's not going to happen. You're talking about some of the peripheral elements that they could go in after, and that's certainly possible, but nothing as far as a vital organ would go. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.