Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL LINKS VEGAS BOMBER, NOLA TERRORIST, HUNT FOR ACCOMPLICES 

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Hours into the new year, Bourbon Street in New Orleans is crowded with partiers. At 3:15am, a white, electric, Ford Pickup truck drives around a police squad car safety barricade, barreling through the revelers. 14 are killed, dozens wounded.  After coming to a stop, the driver gets out of the crashed truck wearing a helmet and ballistic vest. Armed with an AR-10, he fires at police. Two officers are wounded.     In Las Vegas, at 8:39 a.m.,  Matthew Livelsberger arrives at the valet area of the Trump International. Seventeen seconds after the vehicle arrives, Livelsberger shoots himself in the head and the Cybertruck explodes. The blast created by fireworks-style mortars and gas canisters.  Investigators believe the explosion was intentional, but have yet to determine a motive.  Seven people nearby suffered minor injuries in the blast.  Two mass attacks, are they connected?    Joining Nancy Grace today: Craig Drummond - Las Vegas Attorney, Former Prosecutor, U.S. Army Iraq Veteran, www.drummondfirm.com, FB: Drummond Law Firm-Call The Captain, IG: @callthecaptain_drummondlawfirm Dr. Shavaun Scott  - Psychotherapist, Author of “The Minds of Mass Killers: Understanding and Interrupting the Pathway to Violence” Jonathan Gilliam -  Former Navy SEAL and FBI Special Agent, Federal Air Marshall and Police Officer, Author of “Sheep No More: The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival,” Host of the podcast “The Experts,” website: jonathantgilliam.com, IG: @RealJonathanGilliam, X: @JGilliam_SEAL; FB and YouTube: Jonathan T Gilliam Dave Moyer  - Fmr. Navy Bomb Disposal Master Technician, Program Manager for Military Contracts, Georgia K9 Tracker - Master Trainer K9 Tracker,  Fmr. Deputy K9 With San Bernardino Sheriff Dept. Dr. Kendall Crowns  - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County,   Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Germania Rodriguez -Chief US reporter dailymail.com, EM: [e-mail]  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Meta Glasses, a car sharing app, newly discovered overlapping stints at Fort Bragg, now Fort Liberty, an evil ISIS flag, one deadbeat dad and one elite former Green Beret, all part of two deadly attacks here in the U.S. Are they connected? At this hour, the Fed's on the hunt for potential accomplices. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Authorities investigate a potential link between two suspected terror attacks on New Year's Day in New Orleans and Las Vegas.

Are the two attacks connected? At this hour, we are learning there is an overlap of the two attackers at Fort Bragg, now Fort Liberty. How did nobody know that? Both served in the U.S. Armies, both deployed to Afghanistan, both stationed at Bragg, aka Liberty. Explosives found at both crime scenes. Rental cars, both from the Turo car sharing app. And the attacks were just a few hours apart. Let's start with Vegas. Listen. At 8.40 a.m. Las Vegas time, we received a report of an explosion and a fire at the Trump Towers, the iconic hotel that you see behind me.

We were told that a 2024 Cybertruck pulled up to the front of the hotel. And in fact, I can tell you it pulled right up to the glass entrance doors of the hotel. We saw that smoke start showing from the vehicle and then a large explosion from the truck occurs. That Cybertruck managed to contain a lot of the explosion in front of the Trump Hotel. Is that a message? How could it not be a message? Take a look at video we have obtained of the explosion. And then we learn across the country just hours earlier to Bourbon Street. Today at approximately 315 a.m. Central Standard Time an individual drove a pickup truck into a crowd on Bourbon Street in New Orleans killing at least 10 individuals and injuring dozens more.

After hitting the crowd, he exited the vehicle and fired upon local law enforcement. Law enforcement returned fire and the subject was pronounced deceased at the scene. Two law enforcement officers were injured and transported to local hospitals. Many are espousing that there is no connection between the two, even though recently newly discovered evidence shows the two attackers did have an overlapping stint at Bragg. But what else? Take a listen to Sheriff Kevin McMahill. There are a number of things in this case that are similar to the attack in New Orleans. We do know that our subject here served in the military. In fact, he's a current member of the military. Both of the subjects served at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. What we do know about that is it's a very large military base and we have no record that they served in the same unit or even at the

same years at Fort Bragg Something that continues to remain under investigation. I also know that they both served in Afghanistan in 2009 We don't have any evidence that they were in the same Province in Afghanistan the same location or the same unit again something else that remains under investigation. And we also know, of course, that they both used the rental company Turo to rent their vehicles. How does this all fit together? You've got one elite former Green Beret and you've got one deadbeat dad that apparently had been radicalized to hateful extremist views. How is this happening under our noses? And again, are they connected and are there accomplices? The feds on the manhunt for accomplices as we go to air straight out to

an all-star panel joining me, but first to Dave Moyer, former Navy bomb disposal master technician, program manager, military contracts, canine tracker. It goes on and on. Dave Moyer, thank you for being with us. I'm concerned. How does one manage to have a mortar, a mortar, M-O-R-T-A-R, in your car? When I think of a mortar, I think of a bomb, for instance, in Afghanistan. How do you get a mortar? What is it?

Help me, Dave. Yes, ma'am. What they're referring to is a mortar style of firework, which is commonly, you can buy it at any of the firework stores, wherever they are legal, for their size. They're usually a larger firework, commonly made in China and some other countries, and then imported to the U.S. What these mortars do is it's just an exploding device that is loaded inside a compressed cardboard tube, which is referred to as a mortar tube, when it initiates, it allows that firework to launch itself up into the sky and create those really big pyrotechnic displays that everybody likes to see on the holidays. So these are very common to find out at any of your firework stores and whichever states that these large devices are legal.

They're generally a bit larger than your common bottle rockets or M80s or other little snap bangs that people remember from their childhood. Dr. Kendall Crowns is joining me. Renowned Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth. Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Dr. Kendall Crowns, in all of your years, you have managed to obtain and hold on to mortars. Could you please show us and explain? Certainly.

As was described, they're usually cardboard tubes or fiberglass tubes or plastic tubes, but the mortars are a fairly good size. You put a shell in them that's wrapped in cardboard that drops in and then fires out, which shoots the pyrotechnic display. They usually have about the similar gunpowder as a shotgun round. And people often will have accidents with these, and that's why they come into our office. They usually blow their heads off. Now, I had mentioned that Livelsberger was a former Green Beret.

I say former only because he's dead. He was an active Green Beret who happened to be on leave at the time his attack took place. Look at this guy. This looks like a guy you might pass at Target or Walmart, a guy you might see next to you at the red light. Who knew he had a deadly intent? You know what? We're sidetracked with the mortars. Let's take it from the top. Joining me, Hermania Rodriguez, chief U.S. reporter with the Daily Mail dot com. Hermania, take a listen to this.

Hours into the new year, Bourbon Street in New Orleans is crowded with partiers. At 315 a.m., a white electric Ford pickup truck drives around a police squad car safety barricade barreling through the revelers. 14 are killed, dozens wounded. After coming to a stop, the driver gets out of the crashed truck wearing a helmet and ballistic vest. Armed with an AR-10, he fires at police. Two officers are wounded. This guy had been planning this attack for some time, including previous trips to New Orleans, where he had cased out with meta glasses while driving a bicycle. You know, very surreptitiously videoing what would soon be his target. Look at this. Just recently, Harmonia, I walked these streets with my children going up and down Bourbon Street, really taking it all in. And Harmonia, we cannot ignore the fact that the two targets are bastions of U.S.

culture. You've got Vegas and you've got New Orleans. That's right up there with New York and Washington, Boston, Atlanta, the big cities that really, across the world anyway, typify the U.S. Let's talk about the New Orleans attack first. What do we know, Hermania? Yeah, Nancy, as you said, Bourbon Street is one of the most popular destinations for New Year's Eve around the world. So now we know that the terrorist Jabbar had staked out this area a while ago using these meta glasses and completely going down the same route that he ended up going down with

the truck as he flew this ISIS flag. Now, we're also learning that in 2023, he did a trip to Egypt. Now, we're still looking into the details of that trip and whether that could have had anything to do with his movement into radical Islam and more specifically ISIS. But yeah, as you said, this is someone who had served in the military for 10 years,

but over the last years, after some contentious divorces and some financial ruin, he seems to have radicalized and ended up committing this horrific attack in New Orleans. It's very hard for me to understand how an American citizen with all of the rights and privileges that we have in the greatest country in the world could become radicalized to hate our country. Many people wonder what what are meta glasses? What does that mean and how did that help the attacker? Listen, the FBI says Jabbar visited New Orleans in October and November and spent time riding a bike around the French Quarter. He was wearing meta glasses, recorded

video as he rode. Metaglasses allow the user to record hands-free, but they also allow the user to potentially live stream. Jabbar was wearing a pair of metaglasses during the attack, but live streaming was not activated. Before the attack, Jabbar was seen at multiple gun stores in Texas. He also stopped to buy an ice chest, which was used to build an IED. The FBI has confiscated three phones and two laptops from an Airbnb. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us now, in addition to Dave Moyer, Dr. Kendall Crowns, Hermonio Rodriguez joining us, Craig Drummond is with us, a Vegas attorney and for my purposes, former prosecutor and U.S. Army veteran out of Iraq. Drummond Law Firm, call the captain. Craig Drummond, thank you for being with us. I'd like to hear your

initial thoughts. Many stating, and I'm not ignoring them at all, but as a former prosecutor of violent felonies, I can't help but look at the coincidences. Many claim they're not connected, but I'd like to hear your initial thoughts on what's happened. Well, initially, there do look like there's a lot of coincidences, a lot of things in common. As you start to peel back the layers, it looks like they were in totally different types of programs in the Army. We have one who's a special operator, a Green Beret, trained in explosives, trained in military tactics, trained directly in combat. We have Mr. Jabbar, who's some type of human resource specialist,

really a paperwork type of individual. It would be unlikely that they would have served directly in a combat role or in some sort of direct action role in the military. They could have been in the same unit. Drummond, I had to get into a tangle with a U.S. Army Iraqi vet. I really don't want to do that. But when you say it's hard to believe, it's difficult to believe, it's also hard to believe that an American, a U.S.-born American, would attack their own country. So how far-fetched is it to believe the next step? I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's hard for me to ignore these connections. What I find different is Mr. Jabbar clearly was out to injure a lot of people.

And what we have with Mr. Leibelsberger is we have him using fireworks and we have him using gasoline. And that's interesting because he would have been trained on much, much more lethal components. He could have easily put that vehicle as a much larger bomb to do a much larger explosion. And the reports that I'm reading, at least from a note and things like that, that he did not intend to injure lots of people. He intended to make some sort of statement. So the difference I find is that one person. You mean blowing up your truck in front of the Trump Hotel. You don't think that's going to injure people? I would just proffer this, Nancy. If he wanted to take out the whole front of that hotel and hundreds of people, he could have done it.

He would have had the training to do it, as opposed to Mr. Jabbar, unlikely would have had any training to deal with high combat explosives. That's the difference. Okay. You're hearing Craig Drummond, high-profile lawyer, former prosecutor, U.S. Army vet out of Iraq. And now joining me now, Jonathan Gillum out of Phoenix, former Navy SEAL, FBI special agent, federal air marshal, cop, author of Sheep No More, The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival and host of the podcast, The Experts. Jonathan, thank you for being with us. I hear Craig Drummond, but my knee-jerk reaction is to look at this comparison,

and I'm very, very, let me just say, incredulous that they're not connected, especially in light of the new information newly discovered. They did have an overlapping stint at Bragg, now known as Liberty? Well, once we discover these overlaps in time, what we need to then look even closer is, is there any overlap in courses that they took, instructors that they had? Was there any type of overlap of some type of aspect that would have affected their psyche? For instance, medication. Is there medication that they're giving soldiers right now that could have effect or during that period of time that could have affected their mentality that opened them up to this type of psychotic

or dimensional behavior? And I think the medication one is very particular as well. Also, when they were in Afghanistan, where were they exactly? Were they close to each other? Was there also anybody specifically in contact with both of them? I think these are the details. I agree that there's so many overlapping factors here that it goes almost beyond just coincidental. I'm just curious for Jonathan Gilliam, Dave Moyer, and Craig Drummond, all veterans in armed services for our great country,

how could someone that has served our country, willing to risk their lives for our country, for us, turn on our country? We know for sure that Jabbar had an ISIS flag and had been indoctrinated. I don't know that there is anti-American sentiment with Livelsberger. I don't know that yet. But you gentlemen have served our country, do serve our country. To Dr. Siobhan Scott joining us right now, psychotherapist and author of The Minds of Mass Killers, Understanding Interrupting the Pathway to Violence. How, if you are dyed in the wool, pro-American, a patriot, how are you radicalized? How can you

turn against our country? I think there are usually three components to this sort of thing. You've got a person who's enraged and often the things that they're angry about are their own doing. You know, they have failed marriages, they've got money problems, and there's a lot of anger that they're sitting with. And then they develop this paranoid thinking style so that they create an enemy out there. There's other people at fault for the fact that they're angry. And then they find an extremist ideology, which gives them a map. It gives them a template for who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. And that can vary depending on what the ideology that they get into is.

There are actually a lot in history. There are a lot of military people who have become violent extremists. So it's certainly not unheard of. It's counterintuitive, I think, to the rest of us who think logically. But it's it's unfortunately happens more than than we would like. A soldier detonates a Tesla Cybertruck outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas, injuring seven on New Year's Day. You've got him with all of his marital problems, telling a girlfriend on the phone he, quote, feels like Batman. Really? While just hours apart, a deadly attack in New Orleans. Listen.

The FBI releases photos showing Shamsuddin Jabbar walking on Dauphine Street near Governor Nichols Street at 2.03 a.m. He's captured on surveillance footage placing two improvised explosive devices where authorities later found them in the area around Bourbon Street. Bomb technicians recovered two IEDs in coolers, one from the cross section of Bourbon and Orleans Street and the second at an intersection two blocks away. A transmitter intended to trigger the two bombs was found in the cab of the Ford truck Jabbar was driving. I-E-D, improvised explosive device. Who would know how to make that and even create a trigger that could be activated remotely? It seems as if history is repeating itself. Listen. Four years after a pipe bomb was found outside the Democratic National Committee headquarters in 2021,

the perpetrator has not been caught. So the FBI is releasing new video and new information about the suspect planting the pipe bomb. The gender of the suspect planting one So the FBI is releasing new video and new information about the suspect planting the pipe bomb. The gender of the suspect planting one of the bombs is still unknown. And photos of the hooded and masked individual were released early on in the investigation. But now the FBI is releasing video as well, announcing the person appears to be about five feet, seven inches tall. Releasing the video is an effort by the FBI to get people talking about the unsolved crime and raise awareness. How does a U.S. citizen become radicalized? What do we know about Jabbar?

Listen. Shamsuddin Jabbar posted five videos to Facebook explaining how he recently joined ISIS and how he originally planned to get his family together for a celebration and kill them. Deciding that would not get the attention he desired, Jabbar then changed his plan of attack so the media would focus on the, quote, war between the believers and disbelievers. The first video posted at 1.29 a.m. and the last one posted at 3.02 a.m. Straight out to Chief U.S. Investigative Reporter with DailyMail.com, Hermione Rodriguez. What do we know about the videos? Hearing words like war between believers and disbelievers. It's a flashback for me when I was in New York

the day of September 11th. What do you know about the videos? Yeah, so the FBI has told us that they recovered at least five videos that this terrorist had posted to Facebook right before the attack. As the package mentioned, he had said in the video that he had pledged alliance to ISIS, that he wanted to kill Americans. And then he went on to say that at first he thought about just killing his family, but then he was concerned that the media wouldn't get his message and would focus on the deaths of his relatives instead of, as he said in the video, the fight between the believers and the nonbelievers. So basically, you know, the fight between Islam and the West. He wanted to make sure that the public knew that that's why he was doing this. Okay, Craig Drummond joining me, high-profile lawyer out of Vegas

and U.S. Army Iraqi vet. Craig, I want to kill my whole family, but then the world and the media won't know it's all about ISIS. I know it sounds crazy, right? But you and I know the definition, the legal definition of insanity under the old McNaughton rule, part of our common law.

This guy is not crazy. He's crazy like a fox, if anything. So after what you have been through serving in Iraq and more, How does this happen? How does someone, a U.S. born citizen from Texas, become radicalized to hate America? Well, they're selfish. And that's what it really comes down to. They are extremely selfish. And I don't know what his message was, his message that he couldn't get by, quote, killing his family or killing his friends. He needed to go out there and kill innocent people trying to enjoy a great city on a great day, trying to get in the new year. It's infuriating. And it happens because people choose to put themselves first. They choose to forget that they once took an oath to serve our country.

They choose to forget that it's important to live in a community and to help others and not kill them. It's infuriating, Nancy. And I don't know how this individual became radicalized, you know, potentially on the Internet. I don't know why he chose to put himself over others, but it's very infuriating and saddening. And it's just it's a tragedy. You know, Dave Moyer joining me in addition to Craig Drummond, Dr. Scott, Jonathan Gillum. Dave, I'm just very confused. It's very difficult for me to understand. Of course, former Navy bomb disposal master technician, I'm going to get to you about the bombs. But I was trying to understand the mindset of these two that would destroy American lives after having served in the U.S. military.

How do you serve and work with your brothers and sisters in arms and then turn against your own country? You believe in it so much you're willing to lose your own life, but then you completely do an about face. for a statement. Now, in regards to the New Orleans attack, I can't help but keep drawing correlations to the 2015 IRC bombing in San Bernardino County, which I actually responded to and ran a canine track on. But it sounds remarkably similar to that event where a U.S. citizen that was helping mentally disabled folks at the Inland Regional Center, became radicalized via the Internet and eventually traveled overseas to receive training and then came back and planted IEDs and then unfortunately shot an awful lot of very innocent people. So I see a lot of correlations there, and despite the timing, and it really seems like consequential evidence,

or coincidence, sorry, not consequential, but it seems like an awful lot of coincidences here that they both happened within several hours, but the type of bombing is completely different, or the type of incident is completely different with both. There's certainly malice of forethought with the New Orleans attack, and it seemed much more like a statement-driven incident in Las Vegas. Joining us now, high-profile columnist with thedailymail.com and author of Ask Not, The Kennedys and the Women They Destroyed on Amazon Now. Joining me is Maureen Callahan. Maureen, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much for having me, Nancy.

Maureen, I'd like to hear your initial reaction when you learned that there had been not just one, but two deadly attacks on U.S. soil. soil? Well, that both were on New Year's Eve, that both were in cities that are known for everything that Islamic fundamentalism seeks to destroy, which is hedonism, fun, joy, abandon, that they both were car bombs, both suicide bombers, really. Well, the New Orleans attacker rammed into a crowd of people before killing himself. But those are both tactics deployed now by Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in cities that have since hardened themselves as targets. We saw two weeks prior in Germany with that horrific attack on the Christmas market. Officials there refused to sort of even entertain the idea that it could have been related to Islamic fundamentalism, as did the FBI here initially.

And I thought that this is so symptomatic of a larger problem in America, which goes to the progressive left and Biden having blood on their hands in refusing to call these things what they are. You know, Maureen, I try very hard to stay away from politics because in my mind, all politicians are swimming in a cesspool and I don't want to be in that. I try to keep my eye on the prize of solving unsolved homicides, finding missing people, especially children. Here, I think I'd like to approach a bigger picture that it's not just one party or the other. It's a lax attitude.

We don't want to see what is right in front of us. How can we say that at least one of these attacks is not ISIS related when there's an ISIS flag? I lived through 9-1-1. I was in New York when the towers fell. And I'm shocked at how we want so desperately to avoid connecting any of this to ISIS. And when you said, when you made the point, which I thought of, but I didn't, hadn't heard it verbalized so succinctly as you just did it, Maureen, I have read about and studied Islamic fundamentalists that have come to our country.

And when they set foot and walk off the plane at the airport, they look around and they are disgusted. They're disgusted by women wearing a pair of shorts or women with their faces not covered, not wearing a burka of the consumerism in the U.S. They hate us and everything we stand for. And I'm not saying we stand for consumerism. We stand for free will. That's what we have that they don't have. And when you pointed out, Maureen, Vegas and New Orleans as the focal points of the attacks, that really reverberates in my mind, Maureen. Thank you, Nancy. Now, I just want to clarify, as we have since learned, the Vegas bomber seems to have been activated by personal issues.

He does not seem to have any ties whatsoever to Islamic fundamentalism, yet he chose tactics that resemble it. And the iconography is unmistakable. And Elon Musk designed a cyber truck outside of a Trump hotel in Vegas. I think that these things are telling us something about

a laxity in American culture. And I also link it to the American response, both policy-wise, the tone set by the Biden administration and on our Ivy League campuses in major American cities such as New York, where you saw an overwhelming outpouring of sympathy for Gazans and for Palestine and for Hamas, for Hamas, not for Israel. These things are linked. I saw on the Sunday shows yesterday on Face the Nation, Representative Jim Himes, Democrat, talking with Margaret Brennan,

you know, they're scratching their heads going, what's causing this? What caused the New Orleans attacks? Like what causes these? They're now framed as lone wolf attacks but they are not these ideas are viral they are a virus we don't know this guy's extent of involvement with isis but he left his quran open to a significant passage that talked about slaughter so when you couple that too with the laxity of the border, and we don't know how many gotaways came through, there are countries such as China sending single military age males to cross our southern border. This is a laxity on the whole that really needs to be addressed because it really is our greatest threat from within right now.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The ATF believes Shamsud Dinjabar attempted to hide evidence by burning down the Airbnb he rented by setting a small fire in a hallway with accelerants placed nearby. The fire was reported at 518 a.m., but two hours after Jabbar was killed, suggesting a timing device or pressure cooker may have been used to delay the start of the blaze. However, the flames burned out before firefighters arrived and authorities found bomb-making materials in the home. Wow. So he knows how to affect a timer, a booby-trapped device, and tries to destroy all the evidence, too. Jonathan Gillum joining us, former Navy SEAL, FBI Special Agent,

Air Marshal, and author of Sheep and No More, the Art of Awareness and Attack Survival podcast. The expert's Jonathan. This doesn't sound like an amateur. Earlier, one of our guests stated he was basically a paper pusher. When I think a paper pusher, I don't think of a guy that knows how to create improvised explosion devices and set timers and tries to destroy evidence and cases out the bomb location.

Right now, the hunt is for potential accomplices. What are they talking about? What accomplices? Well, it would be, I want to say one thing about him being a paper pusher. Look, Timothy McVeigh was not a bomb builder in the military, but look what he did. So this individual, we can't mistake what he did in the military versus what he did in his attack. So what we do know is that he wasn't trained to do these types of explosives, learn how to how to manufacture them, use a remote device. So I would think if they're saying they're looking for other accomplices, they're most likely looking for one of two things. People who helped him learn how to

build this, who shared that information with him, whether that be overseas or in country, which is even more scary, or individuals who actually built the bombs for him and he rolled them up there and then failed to detonate them. So it's one of the others. But it really still, again, it bothers me so much because they go and make these soundbites saying that he acted alone, but yet they say now that there's potential, again, potential other people that may be involved, accomplices that may be involved. This is a disturbing way for the FBI to put out information or the locals three days into an investigation. These soundbites are for their benefit, not for anything else. Okay, what do you mean by that? These soundbites are for their benefits and nothing else.

Well, it would be like a defense attorney or someone coming out and making a soundbite to help their case. I think when it comes to the failures that the city had, they're going to make soundbites saying that they're safe in New Orleans. They're going to say that, or the FBI is going to come out and say that we don't know, we don't think that there's anybody else involved right now that we know of. Why even say those things? It doesn't do anything except calm people down and make it look like the FBI is in control in their investigation. And quite frankly, I don't think people really care about the extent of what they know. It's just, are they figuring it out? And I

think when we hear soundbites like that, and then we see things like this, where they say they're still looking for accomplices. It's a set of verbiage and soundbites that don't add up, and it causes confusion for people who perhaps would have called in and said, hey, I think I know something, but then they heard something on television say there was nobody else involved, so they just don't, they don't call in. Craig Drummond, vet out of Iraq, former prosecutor, now high profile lawyer, Craig, he's right. One thing that my boss, the elected district attorney, he was like a grandfather to me, drill into us is don't speak. Don't speak to the press. Don't care if they're on the front steps of the courthouse when you leave or enter. Don't speak. Don't take your case. Don't put anything out there until you know everything.

So he, Moyer, really has a point. Like, you think that Jabbar did this all on his own? I tend to think that Livelsberger did do it all on his own. However, Jabbar, whole different can of worms. Like he, the paper pusher, like McVeigh, he was right about that too, suddenly figures out how to make IEDs, make timers, destroy evidence. Who radicalized him? Where did he get the idea to create bombs? I find it really

hard to believe he acted alone. I completely concur with your assessment, Nancy. I mean, we have Lylesberger, who everything he did would have been within his wheelhouse. It would have been within his training and his skill set. We have this Mr. Jabbar who has these bombs that I agree with the other individual who said he wouldn't have been trained in that in the military. He could have learned it on the Internet. I completely concur. But he also might have had an accomplice. I do not know.

I think there are a lot more questions related to Mr. Jabbar, these remote bombs that apparently weren't detonated, the Airbnb that apparently he wasn't very successful at burning down. But there are a lot of questions about that. And to say that he acted alone at this point, I think that might be a little premature. I don't know what law enforcement knows, but I would agree. It's a little premature when we have things done outside of his known skillset.

Two military vets. What do they have in common? Crumbling marriages, their lives in disarray. Straight out to DailyMail.com's chief investigative reporter, Hermonio Rodriguez. Tell me about their lives apart from any anti-American sentiment. That's right. Aside from the military experience, perhaps the most important thing that these two men had in common was that their personal lives had spiraled in the years before their attacks. The Green Beret had actually just had a baby over the summer with his wife, but we now know that some time before he took off from Colorado to Vegas, he had some type of fight

with his wife who hadn't heard from him for days before this attack. We also know that he was dealing with some PTSD. An ex-girlfriend said that he contacted her days before the attack, showing off the Tesla. Now, Jabbar, on his part, had even more of a troubled past relationship life. He had two divorces. The last one appears to have been particularly difficult. The ex-wife got a restraining order against him. And as part of the divorce proceedings, Jabbar had said that he could not pay for the house that he shared with his ex-wife, that his real estate business had crumbled, and that he basically was bankrupt. Now, this was just a few years before the attack that made him nationally famous.

Yeah. In fact, he's a deadbeat dad. The wife, former wife, had to go to court to get him to pay his child's support. And then you've got Livelsberger, whose marriage is crumbling, even after he's just had a baby with his wife. But curious to Dr. Siobhan Scott, joining a psychotherapist, author of The Minds of Mass Killers. Dr. Scott, in addition to his crumbling marriage, Livelsberger said that this act was a, quote, wake up call for America. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. What does it mean? It shows distorted thinking that's going on. And and was he involved in a particular political ideology that we're not aware of where he was looking for the enemy. And usually guys like this,

they have this bizarre belief that there's this external enemy that is the result of why they're having all the problems that they're having in their lives. And so it's my guess that he was reading material. Was he active in groups online where there was an enemy? Was it part of our own political system? From the things I've read about him, he had complaints about our own government and our own political system. And so it's this interesting phenomenon

where their personal problems and their rage is a result of themselves. It's their own view of the world. It's their own inadequacy. But rather than taking responsibility for that, they're putting the responsibility externally. And that's why they act out in violence. So there's nothing as dangerous as a holy warrior, you know, somebody who has chosen an extremist set of beliefs, because they're really angry. You know, Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us, in addition to Dr. Siobhan Scott, Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about family and relatives of all the victims now dead that were just walking the street, enjoying themselves in New Orleans. And suddenly you get the call.

Your child is dead. Just out of the blue. Dr. Crowns, what did these victims endure? Did they realize what had happened? So certainly they were all hit by a vehicle. So when the motor vehicle comes crashing through the crowd, you'll be seeing the car coming at you. And sometimes when you're hit by a car at a high rate of speed, it'll hit you fast enough, cause enough significant injuries like a cervical spine fracture or a skull fracture, that you'll be rendered unconscious immediately.

But oftentimes what happens is you get crushing injuries to the chest, rib fractures, you get splenic or liver lacerations, and you bleed internally, which takes you a while to die. Also, you'll see fractures of the extremities or the legs or the arms as well. So if you aren't hit in the head, you're going to have a time period where you were hit by a car and then you're laying there bleeding internally or bleeding out onto the sidewalk and unable to do anything because you're all broken and in pain. So the individuals that got hit, odds are they did suffer quite a while before they passed away. Our prayers with the victims' families and the search for answers.

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.