Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOMBSHELL! Sex killer Jodi Arias ensnares new boyfriend. Part 2

Episode Date: January 9, 2020

Convicted killer Jodi Arias has a new boyfriend. Benjamin Ernst apparently visits the cold-blooded murderer several times a month in prison.Meanwhile, Arias, who's behind bars for slashing and shooting former boyfriend Travis Alexander to death, is waiting on an appeal decision. Her attorneys declared her murder trial "unfair," citing a media frenzy and a supposed corrupt prosecutor. But the evidence cannot be refuted. Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Kirk Nurmi: Arias' former Attorney & Author of "Trapped with Ms Arias"  Bobby Chacon: Former Special Agent FBI, Star of FB Watch Series, "Curse of Akakor"  Dr. Caryn Stark: Psychologist Joe Scott Morgan: Forensic Expert, Professor of Forensics & Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Alexis Tereschuk: Investigative Reporter at Radaronline.com Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. What are we learning about Jodi Arias' life behind bars? Well, a lot. I hope you're sitting down. Jodi Arias convicted in the murder of her lover, Travis Alexander, even converting to Mormon, the Mormon religion, to please her lover, Travis Alexander, a devout Mormon. He ends up dead, his body decomposing in the shower stall with about 28 to 29 stab wounds.

Nobody was ever sure how many because of overlapping stab wounds and a gunshot wound to the head in the prime of his life. Why? Although the state doesn't have to prove motivation, it was speculated because he insisted on breaking up with her and dating a new woman, actually planning a trip with a new person. But as I said, it ain't over yet.

Right now, an appeal hangs in the balance with Jodi Arias as we learn disturbing new information regarding Jodi Arias spending the holidays with her boyfriend behind bars. What? What? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. and said there's lots of blood. I didn't go in, but I can give you the phone to someone who went in there. Yes, please, can you?

Hello. Hi, so what's going on? He's dead. He's in his bedroom in the shower. Okay. How did this happen? Do you have any idea? No, we have no idea.

Everyone's been wondering about him for a few days. She said that there was blood. So is it coming from his head? Did he cut his head? It's all over the place. Hold on just a moment. Okay, you're a good friend of Travis's, right? Yes, I am.

Okay, has he been depressed at all, thinking about committing suicide, anything like that? I don't think he's been committing suicide. He's been really depressed because he broke up with this girl and he was all upset about that. But I don't think he would actually kill himself over that. Has he been threatened by anyone recently? Yes, he has. He has an ex-girlfriend that's been bothering him and following him and flashing tires and things like that. And do you know the ex-girlfriend's name? Her name is Jodi. Jodi Arias is her name, and she's sitting behind bars right now on Murder One. With me, an all-star panel, Kirk Nurmey, Arias' former defense lawyer at trial, author of Trapped with Miss Arias on Amazon, Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI,

star of Facebook watch series Curse of Akakor Dr. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist Join me out of Manhattan at karenstark.com Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon But right now to investigate a reporter with RadarOnline.com Alexis Tereszczuk Alexis, not only have you

uncovered that she's spending weekends and holidays with her former lover, but that she actually has documented in writing her desire to get pregnant behind bars to mitigate her sentence. Right now, her appeal is hanging in the balance. Two claims that I know of. One, that her prosecutor, Martinez, created a circus-like atmosphere, and that the media created a circus-like atmosphere, including myself. So Alexis, are there any other claims on appeal? That's the gist of it. They have many instances where they say that Juan Martinez, the prosecutor, had done things. You know, he had his picture taken on the front steps of the courthouse with fans. They claimed he allegedly had an affair with a woman who was connected with a juror who was released.

Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, right there. Claims that prosecutor, lead prosecutor, Jose Martinez, had a relationship with a juror. Wasn't that juror released from the jury at the time? It was not with the juror. It was, yes, the juror was released. It was with somebody that the juror knew. Okay. So that he was getting information third hand but that has never been I still want to emphasize on this allegedly because even though there are lots of blogs and people that say that this has never been anything that Martinez has admitted to or that it's another claim just like Kirk Nermy the attorney and author has said about some of Arias's claims that they were claims has there

ever been substantiation regarding Martinez no you can see there is video of him on the front steps of the courthouse getting people wanted his autograph but nothing I don't care about that inside the court there's nothing wrong with an autograph or a photo. I'm talking about anything that would affect the jury decision. No, and that's what the state kept saying during the appeals hearing. They were saying none of this. They pulled that jury over and over and over. They kept asking the jury, have any of you had any contact with anybody? Is anything affecting you?

And the jury said no. And they said, this is fundamentally our system, our jury system. We trust these people. They take their jobs very seriously and they did their jobs. They were not influenced by the media while the rest of us were on television all across the nation, probably all across the world, talking about this and covering this from inside the courtroom. These people were not paying attention to that. They were paying attention to Jodi's lies and that they did not believe what she said. They had no problem convicting her. It was a very quick decision. Well, I'm just wondering how much evidence there is of these claims, supporting these claims. Take a listen to our friends at Phoenix ABC 15. This is John Genovese. Now, a

major theme in her argument was that Martinez routinely took statements or words out of context, then brought them up in a way later that could have an impact on the jurors. Now in terms of the alleged media circus in this, that was the words that Arias' attorneys have used for some time now. She was asked by this three-judge panel about how much Jodi Arias contributed to that. She said that Jodi only gave one, or excuse me, two interviews before she retained counsel, but one interview on the day that she found out she was eligible for the death penalty.

Now, again, right at about 10.30, they switched. An attorney for the state stood up and said, really, all that should be considered is what impacted the jurors. What if any misconduct actually made their way to that jury box and had an impact on the verdict in this trial? They don't dispute that there may have been misconduct as alleged by Arias's team outside of the courtroom or even inside the courtroom but if it was not heard by the jury then they cited some case law in which they believe that this should not be overturned. What matters is, did any of this affect the jury's decision? With me, a renowned attorney, Jody Arias, former defense lawyer,

author of Trapped with Ms. Arias on Amazon, Kirk Nermy. What were the claims of misconduct against veteran prosecutor Juan Martinez? What were the claims against him? Well, there were many claims against Juan Martinez, and this is consistent with Jody's pattern, right? Lie about me, make accusations about men who've upset her, and Martinez is just elated. There's been all sorts of allegations of him having affairs with bloggers and possibly with a dismissed juror and things of that nature. I haven't kept on it as well as Alexis has, but I just see the continuing pattern of Jody attacking men that she feels have done her wrong. And myself and Mr. Martinez are just now in her sights.

You know, Alexis Tereschuk, following up on what Kirk Nermes just said, Alexis Tereschuk, join me from RadarOnline.com. What specifically are the misconduct claims against prosecutor Juan Martinez? I know she claimed he signed autographs and took pictures. I mean, Alexis, when people come up to you and want you to sign something or take a picture, of course you do it. Why would you be rude to someone that has no bearing on the trial, that's not a witness, not a juror? That doesn't even make sense. What are the other claims against Juan Martinez? Well, they're very specific about the way he treated Mr. Nermy's

co-counsel, Jennifer Wilmot. And I remember during the trial that they were pretty shocking statements as well. He said something to her along the lines of, I'm glad I'm not married to you. That would be, and I think he said effing terrible. He was very derogatory towards her. And it was said in open court, I don't believe it was in front of the jurors, but he was very dismissive of her and it seemed very misogynistic. But so they actually brought up very specific points of how he was treating her. And the appellate judges asked questions about that and they said to the to the state you know don't you think that these

are terrible things that this prosecutor has done and they would say well yes but this didn't affect the jury and and whatever you might wait a minute let me understand something what is it you're telling me while martinez did to wilmot he he said he never wanted to be married to her and i you know he was said something like it would be disgusting if i'd be married to you. And I think he, did he say that in front of the jury? I don't believe it was in front of the jury. Then who cares? Exactly. Then who cares? I mean, Kirk Nermy, Kirk Nermy, let me, let me just, I'm not saying that I agree with what Martinez may or may not have said, but I'm talking about a murder conviction.

I'm talking about a reversal. I'm talking about a new trial. I'm talking about reversal with prejudice, and there cannot be a new trial. If he doesn't like Wilmot and he berated her or said something rude to her, if the jury didn't hear it, in the legal world, nobody gives a flying fig. It doesn't matter. It only matters if it affected the jury decision. Yes, no, Kirk. To me, it only matters what the jury heard. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The 30-year-old businessman and devout Mormon had been stabbed 27 times.

His throat slid so deep he was almost decapitated, and he was shot in the head. This is over. This is absolutely over. You need to tell me the truth. Listen, the truth is I did not hurt Travis. On the tape, Arias repeatedly denies she was at Alexander's house the day of the crime. Even after the ever patient detective confronts her with racy pictures of her in his bed that day. And even after he tells Arias her palm print was found at the bloody crime scene. At one point the detective leaves the room. Arias stretches in her chair then she stretches the truth even more. The admitted killer really turns on the tears.

Now I'm just feeling all of the things that I'm going to potentially miss out on with my family. And I think of all the things that Travis's family is going to miss out on with Travis. You are hearing our friends at ABC News. That was Ryan Owens. Now, Travis Alexander nearly decapitated with Jodi Arias insisting she wasn't there. But, uh-oh, listen. But prosecutors allege Arias is a stalker who brutally attacked her ex in a jealous rage when she found out he was seeing other women. Arias' defense, which is expected to start next week, will have to overcome a mountain of forensic evidence,

including pictures taken on this camera found in Alexander's washing machine. Prosecutors say Arias literally tried to wash that evidence away. But on its memory card, detectives discovered not just those racy photos from the couple's sexual encounter the day of the murder, but a series of 20 shots of Alexander posing in the shower minutes before his death. Prosecutors say Arias put down the camera and picked up a knife, stabbing her unsuspecting victim. The most damning picture comes after the camera was dropped. It's too graphic for us to show, but the jury saw a shot of what appears to be Arias actually moving the bloody body.

Prosecutors say she was especially cold-blooded after the crime. Hey, what's going on? It's almost midnight. They played this voicemail Arias left on Alexander's phone a few hours after she killed him. Morbidly enough, she invited a man she knew was dead to come visit her. Wow, she sounded pretty chipper on that. And according to her own statement, as she was driving away from the scene of Travis Alexander's murder. She actually saw blood on her hands, even so managed to leave that bright and cheery voicemail message to cover

her tracks. The Digi Camera. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott, why is it that so many killers suddenly turn into neatniks? They bleach the floor. They do the laundry. They vacuum. They mop. They clean surfaces like never before. What do you make of the digital camera found in the wash with the sheets, and how was it used at trial? Yeah, I think that her idea, Nancy, was to try to take this camera and subject it to detergent, obviously the water, the washing, in order to destroy any kind of digital evidence that would have been there. Of course, we know that that's not the case.

There were a number of images that were still left behind. I think the police did a fantastic job, and the technicians in the lab of recovering these, because they did recover them, and we were able to appreciate them. Even, you know, I remember you and I covering this trial, appreciate them from trial, and you could make out detail. What was really interesting about this, Nancy, is that they were able to recover these time stamps, and it kind of measured this thing out, and you could get an idea, a sense for what was going on. I've always thought that she kind of got him into that shower. They're already in kind of a frisky mood. Maybe they've had a fight. She's trying to lull

him into a sense of security. She begins to take photos of him. It's really sad. You can actually see, I still remember to this day of him kind of looking over his shoulder in one of these photographs, probably the one right before she began bearing that knife in his back. And he looks so innocent. He's looking into her eyes, into the eyes of the camera, if you will. And she snaps that shot of him. And it really tells a lot about her. I've often thought of Jodi Arias as like a praying mantis. You know, one of these female praying mantises that after they mate, they kill their mate. They literally cut the head off of the mate and cannibalize their bodies. She's not too far removed from that.

She's a very scary individual. And as it turns out, Travis Alexander is not the only man Arias photographed in the shower. Listen. Sir, could you introduce yourself to the jury, please? On day one of her defense Tuesday, Arias' attorneys called an ex-boyfriend she dated before Travis Alexander, the man she now admits she stabbed and shot in June of 2008. Arias says she killed the 30-year-old Mormon businessman in self-defense. I know Jody because we were in love. He didn't want his face shown publicly, but Daryl Brewer told the jurors he dated the much younger Arias for

four years. They even bought a house together, and the divorced dad says she was great with his son. Jody was a very responsible, caring, loving person. Did you ever see Jody act jealous towards women that you came in contact with? No. But on cross-examination, Brewer may have done damage to his ex-girlfriend's case. He told the prosecutor Arias took a nude picture of him in the shower. Remember, she snapped these photos of Travis Alexander in the shower seconds before prosecutors say she started stabbing him. Ouch. That's ABC News reporter Ryan Owens speaking. To Kirk Nermy, Arias' former defense attorney, author of Trapped with Miss Arias, Monday morning quarterbacking, you probably thought it was a good idea to call this guy

who had dated her for four years, that she was never jealous, that she never pulled any of the antics she pulled with Travis Alexander, but then on cross it comes out, she took naked photos of him too in the shower. You know, it's verging on a similar transaction or course of conduct. I doubt Aries expected that to come out on the stand, Kirk. Well, if I'm in morning quarterbacking, I would have ran away when my boss started to hand me the file at the public defender's office. That would have been the smart move. But to your question, look, as an attorney, I don't go back and second guess. We had to humanize Ms. Arias, and that's the best we could do. Is it true that Jody Arias actually

called police within hours of the murder, asking for information and asking detectives to keep her sex relationship with Travis confidential. Did that happen, Kirk Nurmy? Yes, Detective Flores, the lead detective on the case, she had a conversation with him within a couple hours after his arrival on scene, which was early that next morning, I believe. And they had a conversation that he recorded and that was played into evidence during the trial. But my question is, my next question, Kirk Nermy, is wouldn't that be drawing attention to herself? And it seems like she's worried about her relationship becoming public when Travis has been brutally murdered. I mean, to me, that's putting up a billboard on Fifth

Avenue. I did it. Well, look, I think that was certainly something that signaled to Detective Flores that this was a person that was on his radar. Keep in mind, at that point in time, people were approaching either officers or Detective Flores himself mentioning Miss Arias's name. That's why she probably felt compelled to reach out and control the damage, I guess. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. like honestly and I think I mean maybe the candlelight and the bubbles all had something to do with it but you were amazing you made me seriously you made me feel like a goddess like I wasn't saying you were like worshiping me but you were you made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on the whole planet

right I so felt like i was the goddess and so aside from all those warm fuzzy feelings but like it was it was so sexy and it was so hot and oh gosh okay that could go on and on and on that is a phone sex tape that was played in court. Jodi Arias and murder victim Travis Alexander getting hot and heavy over the phone. The relationship and the trial was sex charged to Dr. Karen Stark, psychologist. You can find her at karenstark.com. You and I lived through the trial together and covered it together. Me there at the courthouse and you joining me from New York. Karen, it seems to me that Travis Alexander, for a period of time, was just blinded by the crazy sex he was having with Jodi Arias and he was I guess blinded to who she really

was then when he came out of his fog he broke up how does that work Karen somebody like Jodi is extremely appealing she's creative she can come up with all kinds of scenarios she could make him feel we can see that right she's a wonderful liar and She can make him feel. We can see that, right? She's a wonderful liar. And she can make him feel like he's the best person in the world. But she can't hide who she really is, her true person. And so she becomes suspicious. She starts to go through everything that he owns. And he begins to realize that despite the excitement that she's created,

there's something off about her. That's when it really becomes a problem, Nancy, because it's like quicksand. She's sucking him in and he can't extricate himself from this relationship. Amazing how she could hide her true nature for so long take a listen to this oh yeah as far as the timeline we broke i well it was kind of a mutual thing but i sort of more broke up with him um and i it was hard to do because i really loved him but i just realized that without trust you can't have anything, and I violated his trust. Is that the main reason you guys broke up, was the trust?

The trust. I think that there's— Not that the relationship was unhealthy because of the sexual activity, the obscurity, but just that you guys couldn't trust each other. I think that—and this doesn't make it right, I think that being a convert, I've had a couple of serious relationships before where I was intimate with a few people. And it's kind of silly, but I used to always joke that regardless of what the Bible says, and yes I'm Christian, I just live my life by the Ten Commandments, and that's my, those are my rules. You know, thou shalt not this or that, but it

doesn't say thou shalt not fornicate. So I just used to joke about that. Alexis Tereschuk, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com. You recall how all of his friends came forward to say, we knew at the get-go she had snakes in her head and we begged travis not to see her they could see it he couldn't well they were not having sex with her travis was having sex with her so i think that was what he was very much enjoying and that was outweighing the crazy and there was tons of crazy you know there was a party at his house one night and she like hid under the christmas tree she climbed in through a doggy door in his house okay please stop please stop please stop right there I forgot about the hiding under the Christmas tree

please tell the listeners about Jodi Arias hiding under Travis Alexander's Christmas tree because I don't care how great I thought a guy was he'd be out the door I would tell him to take the patent turner pat the street and turn the corner if he got up and hid under the Christmas tree during my Christmas party oh yes I would what happened Alexis Travis was having a Christmas party and for some reason Jodi was hiding behind the tree, not even behind the tree, like underneath the tree during the party. It was very weird. And everybody there noticed it. Nobody said anything. And, but it was like, she wasn't welcome at the party, but she didn't want to leave. It's truly probably the strangest thing of the whole case

to me, other than the fact you know that she slit his throat shot in the forehead and stabbed him 29 times okay wait a minute according here uh in the studio with me jackie howard she broke in his home to vacuum his floor you know if somebody wanted to break into vacuum and clean my house i think i'd be okay with that they'd leave immediately after but what about that Alexis Torres Chuck again that's a fun fact about Jodi Arias I had forgotten did she break in Travis's home to vacuum yes she did she she broke in and she she cleaned up the house which is also why after she killed Travis she knew where all the cleaning supplies were and that's why that house was Thick and span clean

His roommates didn't even know anything was up For three days because the house looked so spotless There were no signs of anything She had cleaned the floor She cleaned up any trace of blood Dumped everything in the washing machine And I guess, bless those bachelor boys hearts They didn't do any laundry for days

And so they didn't even find the bloody sheets And the camera in the washing machine for days but the reality is joseph scott morgan forensic expert to get rid of dna evidence you've got to use something like uh muriatic acid detergent is not going to do the trick yeah sometimes even you know even uh bleach will not do the trick i got to tell you something else nancy she may have cleaned up the rest of the house she didn't do much of a job in his bathroom, though. If you remember, there was a significant blood spatter that was left behind, bloodstain that was left behind on his sink where it was indicative of him having watched himself die. We go back to him seeing himself, him being photographed by her, but he literally put his hands on that sink.

There's actually contact trace blood that's left on the sink that appears where he placed his hands. He coughed and aspirated blood on the surface of the sink, and then he tried to make his way down the hallway away from the shower, Nancy, and he left trace evidence along there. There was actually a large stain in the carpet where I believe, this is where I believe, that she had taken this knife. She essentially straddled his back around his neck and then really used a tremendous amount of force to cut his throat.

Cut his throat to the point where people had mentioned he was almost decapitated. I wouldn't go that far, but it was a deep, deep cut. And then afterwards, and I believe this was post-mortem, she shot him in the head. There was no hemorrhage in that wound track. So this is a classic case of overkill. But then she takes his body and drags it back down the hallway and places it in the shower. This took a tremendous amount of effort, and this was not cleaned up. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He was stabbed some 27 times and shot once in the left cheek. I have no idea.

Do you think that it was a random thing or somebody that knew him? I mean, this is a guy that you were pretty close to. This was a guy I was close to at a time when we were really trying to move apart from each other. So, I mean, there were certain details about his life that I never did know about. And there were even more details that I did not know about, as well as details about my life that he didn't know about because I had moved on. I had moved to California. So we were making a sincere effort to grow apart and to be apart and to move on. But nonetheless, he did remain a close friend of mine. And I just can't think of it.

Kirk Nermy, everybody, Kirk Nermy with me, a special guest, Arias' former defense lawyer, author of Trapped with Miss Arias on Amazon. Kirk, it just occurred to me all the hours and hours and hours you spent with Arias alone and with the other defense team members. When you look back on that, and you remember looking right into her eyes, what feeling, if any, did you get? I think it was a disconnection. I mean, I certainly was not someone that I wanted to connect with. It was a job that I was ordered to do by the court. And that's what I did.

That's what I focused on. I didn't focus on the individual and who she was. Bobby Chacon, former special agent, FBI star, Facebook's watch series, Curse of Akakor. Bobby, so many times with defendants and witnesses and once with a defense lawyer. I would look into their eyes and it'd be like I was looking at a reptile in that they're they seem just cold-blooded like there was no feeling there was nothing behind the eyes it's just like dead back there. No feeling, no emotion, no understanding, no empathy, much less sympathy. Just blank. And it's kind of like when you look at your pet cat and they look at you

and you know deep down inside, even though they're your pet, that if they were bigger than you, they would totally eat you. Okay? That's, whenever I look directly into Jody Arias' eyes, that is the feeling I get, Bobby. I mean, Karen, start the psychologist, you probably describe it better than I am, but you've dealt with so many defendants,

and they just, it looks like nothing phases them. Like they're playing a video game or something. This is one of those unique experiences to investigators or defense counsel and prosecutors have that the general public doesn't have. I often talk to people about this that aren't in our business that I'm saying, when you sit across the table from someone that's evil, someone that's done something that you're accusing them of doing, and you know that they've done it. And you get that disconnect, you get that lack of empathy, and you get that, you know, that ability just to do these inhuman things to other human beings and not have an ounce of feeling about it.

There is something that colors our world, right, that have been in that. And I try to impart that to some audiences sometimes. And you just, it's very difficult to convey that feeling that we have, because we've sat across from evil to the general public, because they've, and thankfully so, they've never had to come across somebody like that in their lifetime. But when you do, you never forget it. You know, to Alexis Torres-Chuck, investigative reporter, RadarOnline.com, Alexis, I'm very happy to realize that you are someone else that loves to look at commissary purchases and jailhouse menus. And I see that you have very carefully detailed what

Jodi Arias is buying behind bars. I do love it. I can't help it. It fascinates me to see, first of all, what's available, and second, what people are buying, specifically Jodi, because she seems to have endless amounts of money to buy this stuff too. But the one thing that really sticks out to me is that she every month purchases a 10 pack of razor blades. I don't know anything about, I have not, I'm not in the prison in Arizona. So I don't know if these are to shave her arms or her legs or what. But I would think that the woman who stabbed somebody 27 times and slit somebody's throat wouldn't get razor blades behind bars. Like this seems like a threat. So that thing stuck out to me the most.

She also buys, you know, toothbrushes. She seems to have gained a little bit of weight because you buy clothes, and she's buying a size medium in some of her sweatshirts. But she also buys tons of food. I mean, she has sardines in cans. She has salmon flakes. She has Cheetos. I don't think they're actually Cheeto brands, but she gets chips.

And then she buys antacids. She has to buy toothpaste. It's a fascinating look into somebody's life. And get a lot of criticism for this though even though people hate jodi arias they say that this is really violating her privacy which i don't see but that is something that people tell me well i tell you this much whoever's in charge of the prison system out there better take notice that she's loading up on razor blades because I would not put anything past Jodi Arias. Alexis, where does her appeal stand right now? It has been filed.

There has been a hearing where they've heard the appellate judges have heard the arguments from Jodi Arias' attorneys and from the state. And usually in Arizona, it seems like it takes about 12 weeks for the appellate court to hand down a decision about an appeal. We are at week eight, so we are in the final stretch of when we anticipate hearing it. I check every single day in the court. I know that you check, Nancy, and that your staff checks. So we are expecting this to be any minute now. Alexis, what's your take on Jodi Arias? Jodi Arias is a psychopath.

She, you know, because she spoke about you all the time, I think she has called me personally crazy after I wrote stories, literally facts from the prison about her, called me obsessed with her. I am not obsessed with her. You are not obsessed with her. I am not obsessed with her. You are not obsessed with her. We are obsessed with getting the truth and justice for people that were involved in this case, meaning Travis Alexander. She has a huge ego, even locked up behind bars. The world revolves only around Jodi Arias. She was a liar.

She was a proven liar. She was very sneaky, and she very methodically planned Travis Alexander's murder. I'll always have our time in court together when she shot a bird at me. We'll always have Arizona. My happy memories of Jodi Arias. But you know what? I have to say that I've met an American Idol because Jodi Arias did win American Idol behind bars. Take a listen.

Oh, holy night The stars are brightly shining It is the night Of our dear Savior's birth Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.