Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Bombshell: Suzanne Morphew husband hotel room reeks of chlorine the day she goes missing.

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

As the search for Suzanne Morphew continues, reports say the Broomfield, Colorado, room Barry Morphew spent the night in reeked of chlorine the next day. A co-worker tells DailyMail that he took over the Holiday Inn hotel room on May 10 and found it scattered with wet towels and stinking of chlorine.Joining Nancy Grace Today: Kirk Nurmi - Jodi Arias former Attorney, Author of "Trapped with Ms. Arias Parts 2 and 3, My Final Words"  Dr Debbie Joffe-Ellis - Psychologist, Adjunct Professor at Columbia University, www.debbiejoffeellis.com  Donald Schweitzer, former LA detective, Criminal Defense, Former Prosecutor, www.pasadenalawoffice.com  Lauren Scharf - Fox21 Colorado Springs News Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful wife and mother seemingly goes missing on Mother's Day. You may ask, why was she all alone? That's a good question. But what became of Suzanne Morphew or at least her body in the last hours? A stunning development. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. For those of you just learning about the Suzanne Morphew case, take a listen to this. She went biking on Sunday there in the mountains about 20 miles west of Salida, Trevor. And and then there was nothing from her. Tell us what you do know. Alan, I'm willing to confirm that the bike was found on Sunday evening.

The bike was found on Sunday evening, the night that she disappeared. And for more information on the bike or its condition, I would encourage you and everyone else to contact the Chafee County Sheriff's Department. Yeah, it has to be disconcerting to know the bike is found. The sheriff has said he does not believe that this was an animal. And so all the Coloradans really ought to be aware that there is a potential, then, Trevor, that she might be somewhere well out of the county for all we know, which is why we need to make sure that we're aware of the situation. The sheriff has repeatedly stated that Suzanne Morphew, who goes missing on Mother's Day, was not taken by an animal such as a mountain lion. There was no sign she was dragged away, and there was no sign of a struggle, and there was no sign of a struggle and there is no sign of her body.

Typically when an animal attacks the body is not that far away from the crime scene. Not the case here but in the last hours a stunning development as we learn what the co-worker of Suzanne's husband has to say about those critical hours when Suzanne goes missing. With me, an all-star panel to put it together and break it back down. Kirk Nermy, you know his name well. He was the defense attorney, lead defense attorney in the Jodi Arias murder trial and author of Trapped with Misery, Parts 2 and 3, My Final Words, I Certainly Hope Not. Also with me, renowned psychiatrist, Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis, psychologist, adjunct professor, Columbia University. You can find her at debbiejaffeellis.com. Donald Schweitzer, another famous name joining us, former LA detective, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor at PasadenaLawOffice.com.

Welcome, Donald. But first to Lauren Scharf, Fox 21 Colorado Springs news reporter on the case from the beginning. Lauren, we just heard from our friends at CBS4 Denver. But, Lauren, take a listen to Erica Gonzalez, KDVR, Fox 31. A co-worker of Suzanne's husband came forward with this new information about the hotel room in Broomfield, Jeff Puckett said, and Barry Morphew told him to go to Denver. However, Puckett says that he didn't see Morphew because he had already left due to a family emergency. Puckett told the Daily Mail that when he got into the Holiday Inn on May 10th, the

room smelled like chlorine and it was scattered with wet towels. He also said that he found a pile of mail inside of that room, including a letter about property insurance, which he says he later turned over to the FBI. A manager at the hotel confirmed they do not use chlorine to clean guest rooms and have handed security footage over to police. Additionally, the hotel told her news partner the pool was also closed because of COVID-19. Suzanne Morphew was reported missing back on Mother's Day. Wow, that is a lot of information. And having prosecuted felonies, including cleanups, attempted cleanups of crime scenes for many, many years, chlorine bleach or bleach

itself cannot break down deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA, right? It does not get rid of evidence the way it's portrayed to, for instance, on TV movies. So first to you, Lauren Scharf, Fox 21 Colorado Springs news reporter on the case from the get-go. Lauren, a lot happening. Now, who is this co-worker of Suzanne Morphew's husband? Who is he? So, Nancy, Jeffrey Puckett is a contractor for Barry, and this is the only job that Barry had hired Jeffrey Puckett for, and it was just, he asked him the day before Mother's Day to help him with this job. And even Jeffrey Puckett called him to make sure he still needed him to come

Sunday around noon is when he called him on Sunday. Stop. I've got to, I've got to digest what you're just telling me because I've learned, Have you not learned this? Donald Schweitzer, former detective, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, high profile L.A. detective and now defense attorney. Donald Schweitzer, every fact matters. And what I'm just hearing Lauren Sharf say from Fox 21 Colorado is that Suzanne Morphew's husband calls a contractor he doesn't know, has never worked with him before, okay, that's what I mean, hasn't worked with him before, on a Saturday

and asks him to travel to Denver the following day, which is Mother's Day, to help him on a job. You don't see a problem with that, Schweitzer? I see it as a significant piece of the puzzle, Nancy.

I think that as a detective, what you're going to do is look at all the things that don't make sense and then start looking at if it were true, what would the answers be? For example, is he using chlorine as a landscaper to build a wall? You would go out there and ask people those kinds of questions. Whoa, whoa, Schweitzer, Schweitzer. Look, you're a great trial lawyer. There's no doubt about that. You're a great detective.

But why would he be using chlorine for a work scene in his hotel room? And again, the husband is not a suspect. He has not even been named a person of interest. Although, practically speaking, cops always, whenever a woman goes missing or is killed, you look at the husband, the ex-husband, the boyfriend, the ex-lover, the stalker, the admirer, because statistically, that is where you will find the perp. That doesn't mean Barry Morphew is the perp or that there is a perp. Let's just be clear.

But based on this new evidence, back to you, Donald Schweitzer. So you say maybe he's using chlorine at the work site, but this is his hotel room. Yeah, but, you know, he's at the hotel room because he's supposedly working, you know, out there. I mean, that's why he's not at home on Mother's Day. But, you know, you asked the question about, you know, why is he contacting people he doesn't know? Did you work on the weekend? Those are the type of facts that, you know, lead you to start at least looking in a direction. And the direction, of course, is at Barry.

Why is he not there on Mother's Day? Why is he contacting people that he doesn't really know to help do some work remotely? You know, it just doesn't make sense. And it would be something I would certainly keep in the back of my pocket as I was investigating this case. And again, Donald Schweitzer, we know more of you has not been named a suspect, but in order to find the real perp, you have to get past the husband first. I hear Lauren Scharf jumping in, Fox 21. Go ahead, Lauren. I was just going to say that Jeffrey Puckett and Barry knew each other from another company, but this is the first time that he had asked him to do a job for him.

So am I correct in the sense, as I stated, they had never worked together? He had never called on him for a job before. Is that correct, Lauren? Nancy, I would say that they have worked together on a different project for a different company, but never have they worked. he has never worked for Barry. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes, I believe we've nailed that down fairly well, Lauren. So let me understand, you call a guy on Saturday asking him to go out of town on Mother's Day.

Lauren, Char Fox 21, Colorado. So the job did not start until Monday? Yes. Okay. So why would you have to leave the day before? When I spoke with Barry, you know, he told me that he, you know, wanted to get out there to make sure that the site was ready and fresh before his guys got out there.

So this Jeffrey Puckett, he gets out there Sunday evening, and, you know, he gets into the hotel room that Barry had gotten for him. You know, and it just he said it reeks of chlorine and he never saw Barry. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the disappearance of Suzanne Morphew. And in the last hours, stunning developments from the husband's co-worker. And when I say co-worker, I mean that this guy, Jeffrey Puckett, was called that Saturday before Suzanne goes missing on Mother's Day and asked to go out of town on Mother's Day to work a job with the husband, Barry Morphew.

He had never asked Puckett to work for him on a job before, although they knew each other from a previous work site. So Lauren Scharf, back to the work site. Before I get to the chlorine, let's finish discussing what we learned about the work site. When Jeff Puckett got to the work site, I assume he went to go look at the work site. Was there any equipment there? That's a good question. And I asked that same question to the contractor, Jeffrey Puckett. He said, you know, as far as machinery-wise, there was nothing. You know, he also talked about how there wasn't really dirt to do the job as well. And so because there wasn't the equipment, the tools that he needed to do the job, he got upset and he decided, you know, what the heck, I'm just going to leave.

So he left Tuesday afternoon. Okay, let me understand something. What was the job? What was Puckett supposed to be doing there? So they were fixing a wall in Broomfield that I guess his guys, Barry's guys from previously a year ago, messed up. And it wasn't straight. So they had to fix the retaining wall to, like, an interstate. Oh, my.

That's a big job. Oh, gosh. Okay, so Kirk Nurmi, this is the defense attorney for Jody Arias and author. Kirk Nurmi, right there. Have you ever driven along the interstate for Pete's sake? You're in California. I mean, you're always on the interstate. When you are doing work on a retainer wall at the interstate, that calls for a lot of dirt and a lot of equipment.

And it will sit over there, and you drive past it for weeks, and then suddenly one day it's gone. What do you make of this? There's no equipment. There's no dirt. You know, Nancy, it goes to what Donald said before, you know, some things not making sense, not adding up. And we look at this case overall,

we start thinking about the prospects of there being different perspective crime scenes, right? We have the hotel room, we have this construction site. Remember Nancy at this construction site, a woman was awoken, you know, in the late night on that weekend with some construction noise near this area. There would be an unusual timing. And we also have, of course, the area where the bike was tossed. So these are the areas that investigators are going to look at. And it's certainly suspicious, especially when we think about this woman

being woken up in the middle of the night with construction noise. Now, it's my understanding, Lauren Sharf, the woman woken up in the middle of the night by Morphew's construction equipment is at a different location than where Jeff Puckett was called to in Denver. Is that correct?

Yes, ma'am. That's in Salida, which is only like 15 minutes from the Morphew house. Got it. I want to go back to Puckett getting called by Morphew's husband to an out-of-town job site. When he gets to the job site, there's no crew, there's no dirt, there's no equipment, And I take it there's no supplies, correct? There's two other workers, but yes. Yeah. Who were the two other workers? It was a gentleman named Cassidy and a woman named Morgan.

I mean, why were they there? What were they supposed to be doing? Did Morphew call them too? That's a good question. I'm waiting to talk to them. Because I'm curious, they were there too, but there was nothing for them to do. I mean, what was Puckett's role? Was he supposed to just go analyze it and assess what needed to be done? Or was he supposed to actually do something without any equipment? I mean, he was so frustrated with, you know, what the situation was. I mean, he was really upset that he couldn't do what he was supposed to do because he didn't have the equipment to do it. Interesting.

So he calls Donald Schweitzer. He calls this guy out of town on Mother's Day. The guy gets there, I assume leaving his family, spends the night, waits two days. Morphew never shows up. There's no equipment and there's no dirt. What do you make of it? Nancy, I think that Puckett's reaction is key to everything. If I was encountered by that type of reaction, I'd want to find out, you know, normally when he goes to jobs like that, does this ever happen? How often has this ever happened where he shows up, you know, from a call from somebody like Barry and there's nothing to do? I mean, it's a significant piece

of evidence, I think. You know, I agree with you, Donald, and you know how this is going to be spun out. It's going to be argued by somebody somewhere that Morphew set all this up to create some sort of an alibi, a construction site alibi. See where I'm going with it, Schweitzer? Yeah, yeah. And you wouldn't be crazy for arguing that. So how could this be spun into an argument, Kirk Nermy? An argument for what, Nancy? His alibi? Yes. You know, as disjointed as it is, he's going to sit there and try to claim he was somewhere else.

He has tried to set himself up, and actually the prosecution will probably do this just as well as he did. His efforts to try to set up these alibis, the state's going to argue as evidence of his guilt, and the defense attorney is going to sit there and say, these alibis are legit. The fact that these guys are upset with my work, it's just all their angst, and i'm completely innocent and it's just i'm a victim this is what you're right you're on to it this is what the defense would argue if this were a trial the defense would say it is a legitimate job more for you had to leave because his wife went missing that's why he wasn't there he just simply didn't have the dirt or the equipment yet that's all that there was this is not a fake alibi.

But when Jeff Puckett gets there, Lauren Scharf, there's nobody there. Why was Puckett, as I'm saying, co-worker, why is Puckett in Morphew's room? Why did he go in Morphew's room? Yeah, so Jeffrey Puckett told me that Barry got this room for him. And when he goes into the hotel room, he instantly smells, you know, chlorine. And he also the next night, the next morning, excuse me, he says he saw a piece of mail in the trash and wanted to know like what it was. it was addressed to Barry and it had something to do with property insurance and you know he also saw the towels on the ground and he he told me that it really looks like you know Barry had came in there showered uh you know laid on the the bed for a few minutes or whatever and then just left washed up and then just left so let me understand this lauren sharp this is a room that barry morphew gets for the co-worker jeff puckett not for himself

and then puckett gets there and the room has wet towels all over everything and it ricks of chlorine somebody's been on the bed and there's more few a more few letter in the trash can are you sure that jeff puckett said this room was for him jeff puckett yeah he told me that there was even his name on the door well did barry more if you ever have a room of his own not that i'm i know of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Okay guys, we are talking about the unusual disappearance of a mom, a wife, Suzanne Marfew. She goes missing on Mother's Day, which to me is important. A lot of people may not think it's important, but I guarantee you women on the jury will think it's important.

She's all alone on Mother's Day. Her husband is in Denver. I think that's about 180 miles away from where they are near Salida. And now, from what we understand, the husband believes his wife was taken by animals off a bike route. But what we are learning in the last hours from a co-worker of Barry Morphy's is very unusual. Let's hear Cut 27, please. Erica Gonzalez, KDVR, Fox 31. A co-worker of Suzanne's husband came forward with this new information about the hotel room in Broomfield, Jeff Puckett said. And Barry Morphew told him to go to Denver. However, Puckett says that he didn't see Morphew because he had already left due to a family emergency. Puckett told the Daily Mail that when he got into the Holiday Inn on May 10th, the room smelled like chlorine,

and it was scattered with wet towels. He also said that he found a pile of mail inside of that room, including a letter about property insurance, which he says he later turned over to the FBI. A manager at the hotel confirmed they do not use chlorine to clean guest rooms and have handed security footage over to police. Additionally, the hotel told her news

partner the pool was also closed because of COVID-19. Suzanne Morphew was reported missing back on Mother's Day. Interesting, the pool was closed but the room reeked of chlorine. You know, a lot of people believe they can clean a crime scene with chlorine or chlorine bleach. You can't. I just had another thought, Lauren Scharf, and I'm going to circle back to you, Dr. Debbie Jaffe-Ellis. Lauren Scharf joining me, Fox 21 Colorado, on the case from the get-go. Let me understand something. So the co-worker gets there when on Sunday, Mother's Day? It was Sunday evening.

He said it was after 6 o'clock. Do you think it was before 7? That's what... He didn't nail down at the exact time. He just really kind of just made it general as far as Sunday evening. So what I'm learning is Barry Morphew never had a room for himself. Is that right? That we know of, yes.

Huh. So what, was he going to sleep in the bed with Puckett? I hope it was a double bed. That's not the kind of work travel accommodations I want to walk into. So, okay, you're telling me that Morphew, there's no evidence Morphew had his own room, but that he had been using Puckett's room. Now, the timing is really important, and I'll tell you why, Lauren Scharf. Because when was it everybody started realizing that Suzanne was gone?

So, the 911 dispatch call to Chesapeake County Sheriff's Office was just before 6 p.m. And who made the call? The neighbor? That was what the original first press release said, that yes, a neighbor did call. When Puckett gets there, sometimes after 6, and the 911 call wasn't made until around 6, how did more few know there was a family emergency, Lauren Scharf? Good question, Nancy. Can you just very quickly run through the timeline with me? Because maybe I've got my wires crossed,

but if she wasn't reported missing until around 6 and Puckett gets there to meet Morphew around six Morphew was already gone because of a family emergency how did he know there was a family emergency to leave for Lauren Scharf go through the timeline with me real quick yeah so it sounds like Barry and his daughters were you know wondering trying to get a hold of Suzanne Morphew, and they couldn't. They tried texting, they tried calling, couldn't get through to Suzanne Morphew, and so that's when they, you know, sounded the alarms and wanted to get a neighbor to go check out, you know, the house to see if she was around. The neighbors supposedly went out there, couldn't find Suzanne in the home, looked at that there was two vehicles in the garage, and there was a missing bike.

And that's when the whole, you know, dispatch call was made. Now, you know, I may have this bass-ackwards. Did Barry Morphew go to Denver on Saturday night? He told me that he he told me that he woke up around 5 a.m. and left and went to to Denver area to do this job prep. Barry Morphew? Barry Morphew? Barry Morphew told me this yes. So he was at home on Saturday night? That's what he told me. Okay so he doesn't leave until Sunday morning around 5 a.m. The timing of this is very, very unusual. I don't see how it works.

What about you, Kirk Nermey? How does the timing work? If she wasn't reported missing until 6 p.m. and the co-worker gets to Denver around 6 p.m. or after 6 p.m., how is he already gone? How did he know she was missing? I think we're going to have to, and investigators are probably looking at the cell phone records, the data, the calls, because we're going to need to, to answer your questions, we're going to need to have some more precision on the exact minutes. It can't just be around this time, around that time.

Yeah, you're right. They're going to take a look at the specifics of it to say, okay, this is when he reacted. This is when he left. And to you, psychologist joining me, Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis, adjunct professor, Columbia. Dr. Debbie, and it may be a matter as innocent as the daughters calling dad on a cell going, we can't find mom. And he jumps in his truck and takes off, leaving them to make sure 911 is called. Doesn't necessarily make sense to me that he didn't call 911, but it may have happened that way.

Yes, it very well may. As you mentioned, I'm a psychologist. I'm not a detective. But so far, listening, I haven't myself heard evidence that's really suspicious. The business with the chlorine, you know, some people are very obsessive since COVID and before. And he may have mistakenly or not thought that if he was even going to spend a little bit of time in the room using the shower, lying on the bed, maybe he, and again, I'm totally speculating, wanted to thoroughly clean the room in that way. And in terms of not being around for Mother's Day

or taking on a job for Mother's Day, it would be really useful, I think, to find out whether in the past it was important for him to be with his family on occasions if there was a job opportunity. Was earning money more important than celebrating occasions? So I think these are important questions as a lay person, not a detective that I would want to know the answers to. You know what? You brought up a really good point, Dr. Debbie. I'm not trying to nail Barry Morphew. In fact, I hope he has nothing to do with this. I'm trying to figure out what happened to Suzanne. And whenever I see something

that seems unusual or an inconsistency, I want to investigate it. I always think of Mark Klass. I'm sure you're all familiar with him. The founder of Klass Kids. His daughter, Polly, went missing from her own home at a sleepover with her and her little girlfriends. The first thing the cops did was beat down his door. He and his wife were divorced at the time. Because the first place you look is the

dad, right? He immediately said, take my DNA, take my fingerprints. I've been here. I'll do whatever you want. You have to clear the immediate family before you can find the real perp. So this is SOP, Standard Operating Procedure. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are heading straight back into our investigation in the disappearance of Suzanne Morphew. Take a listen to our friends at KDVR Fox 31. What happened to Suzanne Morphew. Take a listen to our friends at KDVR Fox 31. What happened to Suzanne Morphew? It's a question still being asked nearly four months after the mother vanished.

She could light up a room with her smile. Just a beautiful human being. The 49-year-old reportedly left her Chaffey County home to enjoy a bike ride. She never returned. Suzanne would never leave her home or her daughters. There's just no way. Suzanne's older brother, Andrew Moorman, suspects foul play. He spoke to our affiliate in Indiana during a vigil for Suzanne on Saturday. He used the event to drum up support to find her. The investigators have asked us to stay reasonably quiet and we have,

but I'm past that point now. It's time to get this out in the media and get some volunteers together and march on Salida, Colorado and find my little sister. Andrew has already been to the Salida area showing up the day after Suzanne was reported missing. I woke up that morning. I looked out the window of the place I was staying and I just cried because the mountains were so big. And it was like looking for a needle in a haystack. That's got to be overwhelming when you are looking for one person in rugged terrain of that nature. Guys, I want you to take a listen to our friends at Fox 21 right now.

The reasons he's been silent. The days and months following Suzanne's disappearance is finger pointing. I don't know why the husband doesn't speak out. Right. Any info is good info. You're trying to find out what happened to the mother of your children. And the unfair perception that he's done something wrong. Juliet Fitzgibbons, an avid biker, found herself riding in the same area where Suzanne's bike was allegedly recovered. And I actually miss seeing the ribbon. I wish there was a bigger kind of memorial for her here.

Others. Someone had knocked on the window and it was Barry Morpheus. Questioning his search methods. He went to write down like a description of maybe what she was wearing. Tiffany Butala, a manager at Poncha Market, says Barry came to the store on May 12th with a brief note. Really thought it was weird because he didn't explain what her color eyes were, her hair, or anything about her, you know, like how tall she was or anything. At that time, Barry had not spoken publicly at all. You know, I'm trying to make sense of everything.

To our friend Lauren Scharf joining us, Fox 21 Colorado Springs. Lauren, what is Barry Morphew doing now? He says, quote, I have people, private people working for him on the disappearance of his wife, Suzanne. What do you know about that? I mean, I tried to talk to Barry yesterday, and I've been wondering the same thing. He did tell me a week or so ago when I did speak with him on the phone that he says he's searching for her every single day. And I was searching for him yesterday to try to talk with him, and I couldn't find him until late last night. So as far as him searching, that's what I wanted to ask him. I wanted to know, you know, this upcoming

large search that, you know, his brother-in-law is planning. I wanted to know if he was going to participate and I didn't get that answer, Nancy. Well, I know this this i'm looking at a picture of him right now of him grilling out at his home uh with barbecue sauce and a jar of jif peanut butter outdoors grilling so i think he's at his house so is he leading searches not that i know of interesting um i want you to take a listen to barry morphew talking to t Tyson Draper of the Draper Brothers on YouTube. Listen. What seems to have happened from the investigators, and they don't give much, and I've got private people working for me, is maybe she was abducted right here.

And they found an article going west of hers. They won't tell us what it is. So they sent another team after they found the article that covered this hillside all the way down to the river. Pretty good. My concerns were this way and that way, if it was the cat because the cats they dragged their prey up the mountain and out of people's we can't find sign for the cat but we got rain

right away yeah washed away sign i'm taking a listen to mr morphew speaking with tyson draper on the draper Brothers YouTube channel. Lauren Scharf, where is the hotel that he rented for his co-worker Jeff Puckett? It's a Holiday Inn. Where is it? It's in Broomfield, Colorado, which is just outside of Denver. It takes about three hours from Chafee County to get there. Okay, so he left that morning around 5 a.m. and then he leaves around 6 p.m. for a, quote, family emergency. You say this room was rented specifically for Jeffrey Puckett to come work on a job site where there was no equipment and no dirt. But that when Puckett gets there, could you describe the state of the room again,

please, Lauren Scharf? Yeah, he said that it smelled like chlorine, very strong. And he, you know, he thought maybe Barry had gone to the pool, but the pool had been closed. He saw that there was wet towels on the ground. It looked like the shower had been used, that the bed had been laid in. And he also found the next morning a piece of mail that was addressed to Barry that had something to do with property insurance. Now, again, none of this means Barry Morphew is a suspect or even a person of interest. Again, to you, Donald Schweitzer, former detective, former prosecutor, now defense attorney, why is it we always go through and vet boyfriend, lover, ex-husband, husband, guy that's got a crush, secret admirer? Why do we always look at them first, Donald? Nancy, you said it at the beginning of the show that statistically this is where it most likely happens, that it's somebody that's intimately involved with the missing person that is responsible for these type of things.

I want to talk to you just briefly about this hotel thing. Okay. Why in the world is he taking a shower in somebody else's room unless, you know, he's being smart. He's saying, look, I'm not going to lead the authorities to my own room. You know, and why is he even taking a shower? You know, he'd been gone a few hours, but there's no evidence that he did any work. So he's taking the shower in some other guy's room, and then he leaves behind what looked like chaos. You know, he was probably extremely nervous.

I mean, if he did this, okay, I understand that he's not a person of interest, but if he is the person that did this, it looks like there was a panic. You know, he's leaving things behind that normally you would clean up after yourself. On the other hand, it could be argued, Kirk Nurmi, that he went for a jog or he exercised. The pool was closed, so those wet towels did not come from the pool. But if he had gone there, jogged, worked out, gone to the construction site, got sweaty, came back, took a shower, then got news his wife's missing, he throws down the towel and leaves. Bam. That could be the argument. That certainly would be the argument.

And, again, it's a matter of setting up all these circumstances. I wasn't around. I was doing these other things. And I reacted appropriately once I found out my wife was missing, once I got a call from my kids. You know, Dr. Debbie Jaffe Ellis, psychologist, Professor Columbia, it's often argued by defense attorneys that there is no playbook or a script for anxiety or grief. And that is true. People don't always act the way you think they should act. And very often it means nothing. I totally agree. I tend to avoid using the word normal when it comes to referring to any sort of emotional experience or behavior and some people again could be compulsive that explains certain actions and chemicals they use some people could be messy that's why

they leave cows on the floor so in my view and observation work over the years, there's no normal. It's informative to look at regular patterns and if they're changed and what might influence the change. But normal, for me, that means little. Guys, we are waiting to uncover who is the private eye or detective firm Mr. Morphew is using. And we wait as justice unfolds. And again, let me reiterate, Morphew, not a suspect. But we still want to find Suzanne. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.