Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BONUS: Evil Mommy accused of boiling children's puppies alive, beating kittens with hammer as punishment.

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

A New Mexico mother of 15 is accused of boiling puppies and torturing her children as punishment. With Nancy Grace today to discuss the case: Attorney Steven Mulroy: former federal prosecutor from Memphis; John Cardillo, Former NYPD; Dr Daniel Bober, Psychologist; Joe Scott Morgan, Forensics Expert; and reporter Levi Page. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It all started last month when someone reported that the children in that home were not getting an education. CYFD started checking up on that and documents say that's THE WALLS ARE COVERED IN LETTERS IN THE HANDWRITING OF A NEARLY 10-YEAR-OLD CHILD. I MISS YOU. I LOVE YOU. SWEET WORDS TO PARENTS JUST ARRESTED FOR CHILD ABUSE. My family are wonderful people. My mom and dad are some of the

best people you'll meet. THOSE WORDS AND THESE LETTERS? A STARK CONTRAST FROM DETAILS IN THE FACTS OF THE FAMILY. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME.

THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. THE FAMILY WAS NOT IN THE HOME. PARENTS JUST ARRESTED FOR CHILD ABUSE. My family are wonderful people. My mom and dad are some of the

best people you'll meet. THOSE WORDS AND THESE LETTERS? A STARK CONTRAST FROM DETAILS IN THESE COURT DOCUMENTS. MARTHA AND TIMOTHY CROUCH ARE FACING SERIOUS CHILD ABUSE ALLEGATIONS THAT ALL STEMMED AFTER CALLS TO CYFD ABOUT

ALLEGED EDUCATIONAL NEGLECT. We don't make the kids do anything they don't want to unless it's a tour or something. You gotta do the dishes. You gotta do the dishes. CR've got to do the dishes. Crouch's son, 31-year-old Timothy, says the 14 kids, some who are now adults, made their own decisions. My brother Pat drives a truck for a living.

And if you ask him to read something, he's going to look at you like you're funny. But you get him on the back of the truck and he can drive it. A mother? A New Mexico mother, accused of boiling puppies, torturing children, beat newborn kittens dead with a hammer. It's almost too gruesome to believe it's true. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Emphasis on word mother.

If this is true, that she actually boiled puppies or beat newborn kittens dead with a hammer, her daughters breaking their silence to tell of pure hell and a house of horrors. With me, Professor at University of Memphis Law School, Stephen Mulroy, former federal prosecutor. Former NYPD, John Cardillo. Forensic psychologist, Dr. Daniel Bober. Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, to Levi Page,

CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What? Yes, Nancy, this is a horrific case. Martha Crouch, who's 53 years old, and her husband, Timothy Crouch, who's 57, they were arrested in New Mexico with horrific allegations of child abuse. And apparently there's a long history of this. They've been investigated in Alaska, Kansas, Missouri, Montana, and other states. And when the investigation would heat up, they would move. And that's how they escaped this for years. But the allegations, generally speaking, are that they would think that their daughters were fat. So they would chain them up in beds, only feed them one meal a day, usually ramen. And as punishment, if they gained weight or they wouldn't be at a weight that's satisfactory to the parents, they would kill their pets, dogs, puppies, and kittens, and they would beat the kids.

I mean, it's horrific allegations that keeps you up at night when you think about them. Take a listen to our friend Brittany Costello at KOB4. But the allegations in these documents accuse the parents of much worse. Children who grew up in that home and moved away told police they were brutally beaten. One teen girl still living with the couple told police she was routinely abused. They reportedly allowed one meal a day and that Martha would punish them by killing their pets. She told police Martha took the puppies and put them in a giant pot and boiled them while they watched. I almost can't take it in

to forensic psychologist Dr. Daniel Bober. Have you ever noticed Dr Dr. Bober, and I see it with comments online, people seem to care more about animal abuse than they do about child abuse. You know, Nancy, I'm actually involved in a case like this right now with a severe animal abuser. And I have to tell you that, you know, people view animals as purely innocent creatures. And so you're almost better off killing a person than an animal for some people because they love their dogs, they love their cats. And so you're almost better off killing a person than an animal for some people because they love their dogs, they love their cats. And so a case like this is particularly gruesome to those people. I think it may be because animals truly are helpless. I mean, at least a human may be able to get out a door, unlock a lock, call 911? Maybe. Not always, but maybe. I think that's

the reasoning. I want to go to Dr. Daniel Bober again on this, the mindset, accusations of boiling puppies, murdering kittens, torturing her children. What kind of mindset does a mom have who would inflict this kind of abuse? Well, clearly someone who doesn't really have a connection to living things. You know, she abuses her children in a very similar way. It's someone who just doesn't have the capacity for empathy or remorse and doesn't feel anything about the living things around her. You know, if these claims are true to Stephen Mulroy, professor at University of Memphis Law School, what would be, in your mind, an appropriate punishment? Well, we've got, you know, animal cruelty, child cruelty,

aggravated child abuse at a minimum. You know, we're talking years, some term of years of imprisonment for both of them, I would have to think. I mean, assuming that the allegations are correct, and right now they're allegations, but there's so many different accounts from so many different children that overlap and reinforce a strong reason to think that this happened. So we're talking aggravated child abuse and child cruelty for years in prison. And my question is, how has it been the case that these children are still in the custody of the parents for so long? Why weren't these children removed from their custody years ago in light of the apparently years and years of abuse that we were hearing about. The daughters of the House of Horrors couple, Martha and Timothy Crouch, describe how their monster mom beat them severely, kept them chained to a bed, one for three years chained

to a bed, from the age of eight to make her lose weight, and forced them to witness their newborn kittens being beaten to death with a hammer. I agree. How did they manage to keep custody of these children? 15 children, eight sons, seven daughters. Their home dubbed a house of horrors. The mom charged with child abuse, cruelty to animals, including forcing the children to watch while she boiled puppies alive. Interesting. Of course, this type of child cruelty can be 20 to life behind bars. But it's really interesting, is it not?

And I'm going to throw this to John Cardillo, former NYPD. In all the cases of child cruelty and child abuse, people always blame the mom more. But a dad was involved in this as well. Why is that? You know, I think because they feel they're supposed to be the nurturers, Nancy. I mean, these cases always shock me. I'm an animal guy, right? I've got three dogs, three horses.

I'm fostering another horse that was malnourished to get them back to help. So these always bother me, and they always bothered me when I'd walk into these scenes. Sadly, I did with animals severely abused, tortured. Wait, listen to this. I asked you about child abuse and you're talking about the animal abuse. I'm not faulting you, but that goes back to what Boba and I were talking about, how people get so upset. And I don't blame them when animals are mistreated. My question to you is in your practice as a cop in a New York PD,

people tend to blame the moms more than the dads. Why is that? The reason, the reason I think, and I did a lot of work as well with the national center for missing and exploited children is that we find in these abuse cases, especially where there's sexual abuse, as well as the child abuse, the perpetrators are oftentimes 98, 99% men. And so the expectation is because that the women are not the perpetrators, they should be the ones to blow the whistle. It's perceived as far more heinous, whether that's scientifically fair and accurate or not, it's perceived as far more heinous by the public and by law enforcement

when the woman is a perpetrator, is a co-conspirator in all this, because you expect the mom. Look, I had a case with an eight-year-old girl. The stepdad locked himself in the bathroom with her, and he tried to manually molest her. Luckily, the mom kicked in the bathroom door, slashed him with a butcher knife. He jumped out the fire escape, called her for a coat. It was

December in the Bronx. And she was our best asset. She told us where he was and she played the role and said, OK, I understand. I'll get you the coat and scribble down on a piece of paper where he was. And we rolled around a few blocks away and picked him up. We expect all moms to react that way. She was married to the guy for 12 years. The minute he touched her daughter, that went out the window. She wanted to kill him. So when they don't act that way, when they're not mama bear, we look at that as particularly heinous. Take a listen to our friend at KOB4. This is Brittany Costello. One child claimed he was beaten, shot, stabbed, and run over by his parents and even had babies still inside his arm. Another daughter even said she was put on a fat chain for three years to HIS PARENTS AND EVEN HAD BEEBIES STILL INSIDE HIS ARM. ANOTHER DAUGHTER EVEN SAID SHE WAS PUT ON A FAT CHAIN FOR THREE

YEARS TO PREVENT HER FROM GETTING FOOD BECAUSE SHE WAS CHUBBY. CRIME STORIES WITH NANCY GRACE. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.

THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.

THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE FAMILY IS STILL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, we learn that the bond has actually been reduced for this monster mom charged with boiling puppies, child cruelty. Imagine it. Beaten, shot, stabbed, run over with BB still in your arm. A girl, a little girl at age eight being put on a fat chain, quote, fat chain. Their words, not mine, to prevent her from getting food because she was, quote, chubby.

And she has her bond reduced. Wait a minute, you didn't tell me anything about that, Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. This is with felony counts of child abuse, extreme cruelty to children, obstruction of the investigation into child abuse. What? She has had her bond lowered? Correct. District court judge Curtis Gurley ordered her bond to be reduced from $50,000 to $30,000 in cash at 10%. What's the judge's name? Curtis Gurley. Curtis Gurley. Catch this. The husband facing charges is now requesting his wife be released on her own

recognizance. Do you think that's going to happen? Let me throw that to you, Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, we've seen certainly seen more bizarre things happen than that. I don't know, you know, to his own, you know, they're going to go back into the same cycle they were previously in. And it's terrifying. And one more point here along along the way. We you just mentioned just a moment ago, I think maybe it was Levi, that many of these these children have now, you know, they're now adults. OK. And my thought is, is that they could be having children of their own at this point in time. That opens the door for something that's really dark. That is, they're going to bring these other small children around these people potentially.

And if that doesn't strike fear in your heart, I don't know what would. To Stephen Mulroy, professor at University of Memphis Law School, now the daughters are speaking out. They've gotten a few years older. They are not afraid to speak out anymore. Could that result in more charges? Well, quite possibly, depending on what they say. I mean, you know, we've heard such a lengthy list of charges already. I mean, you've told them it's kind of hard to believe that it could get any worse. But since we've got these adult children who are out from

under their custody and no longer have anything to fear, you know, and more attention has been brought to the case and they're investigating it, I'm sure that we probably will hear about more. Well, what about the problem with statute of limitations? Well, yeah, that's true. Some of these things are probably going to be barred by the statute of limitations. You know, I would imagine that some of these things are stories that we are, you know, 10, 12 years old, and they may be barred by the statute of limitations. But it sounds from what the reporting that we've been hearing is that there are going to be more than enough charges within the statute of limitations to put these people away for a while if they're convicted. You know, I'm thinking on what you just said, Stephen Mulroy, about the statute of limitations on some of these. You know, in many jurisdictions, and we're seeing this in the R. Kelly case, statutes of limitations,

what that means is, say I, let's blame Jackie. Say Jackie goes to Macy's and steals about $500 worth of lingerie, push-up bras, her weakness, and they don't prosecute her for 10 years. Guess what? The statute of limitations has run. It's too late. You have to prosecute in a timely manner. There is one crime with no statute, and that's murder. However, many jurisdictions are changing the statute on sex attacks and child abuse. So when the child, for instance, has the memory later in life or gets to a point where they're not afraid to speak out, the statute is waived. And out of all these jurisdictions, Alaska, Kansas, Missouri, Montana, and more, certainly one of them will have waived a statute so this case can go forward. Could somebody tell me why this woman has put herself

in a wheelchair and rolled herself into court? Because she surely had the strength and the dexterity to hammer kittens dead, to boil puppies, and to chain her daughter to a bed, according to them. And now she suddenly has to be in a wheelchair. What about it, Levi? Yeah, if you look at her mugshot, she also has an oxygen tank on her as well. So I think that she is claiming to be sick, and she's claiming that she's not getting the proper medical care in jail and her husband is wanting her out. And the husband is out. He's charged with a misdemeanor of obstructing justice and the investigation into this case. And he's actually collecting disability, $2,200 a month. Oh, dear Lord in heaven.

Well, maybe Judge Curtis Gurley will invite them to stay at his house since he's so quick to reduce her bond. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.