Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BONUS PODCAST! Shattered Souls: The Car Barn Murders

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Attention true crime fans! Join us for a look at the hit new podcast 'Shattered Souls: The Car Barn Murders'. Veteran forensic investigator Karen Smith sets out to solve the oldest active cold case in the history of American true crime. Available now everywhere you get your podcasts!Apple PodcastsiHeart PodcastsSpotify Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me right now is a very special guest. You know her well. She's a forensics expert and colleague and friend. Karen Smith joining me right now on her brand new hit series, Shattered Souls, The Car Barn Murders. Listen. What happens when a cold case lands in your lap? What if you're a retired detective? What if that cold case is the oldest one on the shelf and your dad is the one who told you about it? What if the reason your dad told you

is because one of the victims was your great uncle? And what if your dad told you that your grandfather was named as a suspect? I don't want a single word written about that case. Do you understand? It wouldn't surprise me at all. Incompetence or corruption. There were things that were just best left buried.

Karen, thank you so much for being with us. Nancy, thank you so much for having me. This is really exciting. You know what, Karen? I've been hanging on your every word. That's all I can say. Karen, first of all, tell me about the Carr Barn murders. This is a case that is very near and dear to my heart, Nancy. I found out about it over 20 years ago. My father held a family secret for decades, and that was... Okay, right there. You got me a family secret. Then decades. Okay, go ahead. I'm in. Family secret kept for decades. Go ahead.

Right. My dad found out about it when he was a teenager and he didn't tell me about it until I was almost 30 years old. I was a rookie cop. And he told me that my great-great-uncle, Emery Smith, was murdered. And then he dropped the bomb that my grandfather was held as a suspect. I didn't know what to say. And I made a promise to my father in that moment over two decades ago that I would look into the case. Well, you know, life happens. And I went on with my career. My father and I would talk about it here and there. But there really wasn't anything for me to do. I was a patrol officer. I didn't know how to work a murder. Well, then after I got into homicide investigations, my father and I would talk about it. And he really didn't know that much and was under the impression that there wasn't much left in the case file. Okay, stop everything. How have I known you this long and did not know there was a deep, dark family secret?

I murder. I murder, of all things. Karen? Right. And to add insult to injury, Nancy, it was a double murder. It was not only my great uncle, but another man named James Mitchell was murdered that same morning. So it was quite a legacy in Montgomery County, Maryland, where it took place. I mean, did you grow up loving your grandfather? Did you know him? Oh, my gosh. My grandfather was revered in my family. He was a very quiet man. He was a very religious man, United Methodist. And he was just a very loving and kind person. I knew in my heart that he could never have done such a thing. So that was never a question in my mind.

But as far as my father was concerned, it wasn't so much that my grandfather did it, but the fact that he was hauled to the police station to be questioned, and then nobody solved my great uncle's murder. And everybody thought it was an inside job. That was sort of the family rumor that persisted for decades and decades. This happened in 1935, Nancy. That's how old this case is. So, you know, it was incumbent upon me with the experience and training to try to do something.

And when my father passed away in 2018, it was my one broken promise to him. So that's what drove me to take on this case and make it season two of my podcast. You know what? I don't want to give the whole thing away. I really don't. So I know why you're pulled into this. Is this the kind of story that whenever you'd be at a family reunion or get together, people would talk about their murder and what really happened? No. My great aunts and uncles knew about it. Nobody ever talked about it. Nobody. It was sort of just this buried family secret. And the reason I think that they did that was there were rumors that persisted for decades

that my great uncle Emery was somehow in on it, somehow co-conspired in his own murder, which was ridiculous to me. So not only did I have to try to solve these two murders, I also had to show that either my great uncle was in on it or he wasn't. So that's part of the journey, too. So how do you go about it? I mean, I've tried cases that were very, very old before. They're really hard to put together.

Carolyn, how did you start your investigation? And on what qualities did you draw? I mean, you're a forensics expert. Tell me how you started and what your game plan was in solving the mystery. Honestly, I didn't have a game plan, Nancy. I did a FOIA request for the case file. Took a while to get it because of COVID and the skeleton crew. Once I got the case file and sorted through everything, I just read through it a bunch of times. Quickly exonerated my grandfather. That's not a secret. He didn't do it. However...

Okay, wait, can we just not gloss over that? Because my grandfather, Ovid Cornelius Stokes, was like a legend to me. My mom's family was dirt poor. I mean, he drove a school bus. He drove an ice truck. He farmed. He dug wells. He would divine, what I mean by that is divine water, and then dig the well. I mean, he did it all to try to support everybody. And in my mind, he was just this big, bigger than life hero. And I'm just trying to think if someone ever claimed he did such a thing, I would be like heartbroken and shocked. I wouldn't believe it. Right. And I didn't. And, you know, my grandfather and your grandfather had a lot in common. My grandfather worked for the Capital Transit Company in Washington, D.C. for 40 years. He was a trolley

conductor and then a bus driver. So that's what he did. And that's part of this case was he worked at the Chevy Chase Lake trolley station for the Capital Transit Company in Maryland. That's where my great uncle worked as well. They worked together. And so did two of my other great uncles. So the Capital Transit Company and my family have this symbiotic relationship. So yeah, my grandfather was a very hardworking man. He worked there, then he translated over to the Bethesda Hardware Company and worked there for a number of years. So yeah, they were very hardworking people. My family were farmers in Northern Maryland. So, you know, I heard a story from my cousin that my great-grandfather drove to the Bethesda police station in 1935 to get some

updates on his brother's murder, and they shooed him off. They thought he was stupid because he was a farmer. And they said, you know, don't nose into police business, just go on home to the farm. Well, that made me really angry when I heard that. On top of the fact that they hauled my grandfather in for questioning, I thought, you know, who are they looking for here? I know that they have to cast a wide net, but really? My own family? That's crazy. How did this hang over your family? Or did it? It did. My great aunt, Ada Francis, my grandfather's little sister, would cut newspaper clippings over the decades when newspaper reporters would revisit the case for whatever reason. It became a novelty story because it was so old. And she would meticulously

clip these newspaper articles starting in 1935 when it happened, all the way through the decades. And my cousin sent me copies of those newspaper clippings, which played a huge role in my ability to reconstruct the crime scene. Without those newspaper clippings and photographs taken from the trolley office on the day of the murders, without those photos, I wouldn't have been able on the day of the murders, without those photos, I wouldn't have been able to reconstruct one of the murders. So they were a huge help. And that's how it affected them. They never stopped thinking about it. They never stopped talking about it amongst themselves, but they never really talked about it to the younger generations like me.

I guess they didn't think we would, not that we wouldn't care, but maybe it just wouldn't resonate with us the way that it resonated with them since they lived through it. But for whatever reason, they never talked about it. You know, that's amazing to me that all these years pass and then you, of all people with an expertise in forensics and law enforcement, are really called on, let me just say from beyond the grave, to sleuth and solve a decades-old murder and clear the name once and for all of your own grandfather. I mean, Karen Smith, you couldn't make this up. I couldn't make up what you just told me.

Right. And the twists and turns that this case takes, it's like a film noir. You can't make this narrative up. You just can't. So it actually listens more like a movie than it does a truthful story. But everything that I say on the podcast is true. And the wormholes that I had to go down and the links I had to make blew my own. I blew my own mind really, because I couldn't believe where these things were taking me

and the leads that were left behind by these detectives who were pounding the pavement in 1935 and hauling in suspect after suspect and letting them go. So I didn't have a dog in the fight. I had no idea who might've done this. So I didn't have a dog in the fight. I had no idea who might have done this. So I just followed the leads where they took me and I narrowed down my suspect pool and went from there. What would you have done if it turned out that your grandfather actually did it? If I found out my grandfather killed someone, I would absolutely think they deserved it. And that he was right, that it was self-defense or defense of another. Yes, I agree with you there.

I mean, I never in a million years would have ever, ever even considered my grandfather. But because he was named in the case file, I had to, you know, get family stories. I had to look at the evidence. I had to look at what the detectives did. And it turns out that he was asleep in bed with my grandmother, who was pregnant with my father at the time. So he had worked the day before they knocked on his door. He lived just a few blocks away from the trolley office. And they said, you know, Emery Smith, we can't find him this morning. Have you seen him? And my granddaddy said,

well, he left for work about midnight last night. I haven't seen him since what's going on. And they said, well, there's a man dead at the Chevy Chase Lake Trolley Barn. We can't find your uncle. His car is down there. And my grandfather was like, what are you talking about? Well, they held my grandfather after they questioned Jim. They verified his obvious alibi that he was in bed with my grandmother. But my grandfather had to go to the funeral home and identify the body of his own uncle that afternoon. So that broke my heart. That broke my heart. Karen Smith, you're not only solving cases in the current time, present day, but now reaching back decades to solve the Carbarn murders. Wow. Guys, please listen to Shattered Souls on iHeart Podcast, Season 2, Carbarn Murders. You know, I'm so glad we met, Karen. I am so glad we met. God bless you and your quest for the truth and your quest for justice.

God bless, Nancy. Thank you so much. Guys, shattered souls, the car burn, murders. You have got to listen to this. Go ahead. The court orders you to binge. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.