Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOY, 5, FOLDED DEAD IN A SUITCASE, MOMMY STILL ON THE RUN

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

The mother of  5-year-old Georgia boy, Cairo Ammar Jordan, found dead in a suitcase in Indiana, is still on the run more than a year after the child was found.. His mother, Dejuane Ludie, accused in his death, is still at large.  Investigators say the little boy died from an electrolyte imbalance. The medical examiner says that the imbalance was most likely due to a “viral gastroenteritis” caused by excessive vomiting or diarrhea. Toxicology tests came back negative and the boy had no severe injuries. Police do not believe the boy was alive when he was placed inside the suitcase.  A mushroom hunter found the hardshell suitcase, which features the famous “Welcome to Las Vegas” sign. The boy's mother posted online that she believed the child was really a 100-year-old demon. Another suspect, 40-year-old Dawn Elaine Coleman of Shreveport, Louisiana, who had  been traveling with mother  Dejaune Ludie Anderson was arrested and convicted. She pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit murder in Cairo's death. She has been sentenced to 30 years in prison, with five years of that sentence suspended to probation.  TIPLINE:  Indiana State Police [phone] (within Indiana) or Detective Matt Busick, Indiana State Police in Sellersburg [phone] or [phone] Joining Nancy Grace Today: Steve Kramer - Former FBI Attorney and Federal Prosecutor, President: Indago Solutions, Indago.ai, Led the team that identified the Golden State Killer, Co-Founder of the FBI's Forensic Genetic Genealogy (FGG) Program Dr. Thomas Plante - The Augustin Cardinal Bea, S.J., Professor of Psychology and Religious Studies, Santa Clara University; Adjunct Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Stanford University School of Medicine;  Editor, Spirituality in Clinical Practice;  Author: " Human Interaction with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased: Psychological, Scientific, and Theological Perspectives." Detective Matt Busick - Investigations, Indiana State Police (Sellersburg, IN)  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Max Lewis - Reporter, FOX59 (Indianapolis), Twitter/Instagram: @MaxLewisTV, Facebook.com/MaxLewisTV  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Somebody knows something. Well, truer words were never spoken than in the case of a boy in a suitcase. A little boy, a beautiful little boy, literally found in a suitcase, dead. When the case first hit the headlines, it was quite the furor. A classic Las Vegas, Welcome to Las Vegas suitcase with the iconic sticker on the side was found seemingly out in the middle of nowhere

in the woods in Salem, Indiana. His small body stuffed into a Welcome to the Fabulous Las Vegas suitcase. The prime suspect, his mom, still on the run after this tot's body found stuffed in a suitcase. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Sirius XM 111. I will never forget it. This little child, beautiful little boy, found dehydration, the cause of death caused by gastroenteritis. What a painful and slow suffering death this five-year-old boy had. And now we know who is the perp.

The perp is his own mother. Why is she still on the run? How is she able to outsmart police, FBI, bounty hunters, dog trackers, the works? Or are they simply not focusing on apprehending her? Is a little five-year-old boy somehow lost in the shuffle? Is his life less important than other people's? Do you remember the manhunt, or should I say womanhunt, for Caitlin Armstrong,

accused of gunning down a beautiful pro cycler mariah because of a love triangle they tracked armstrong down all the way in disguise in costa rica oh yeah they found her because it was the high profile case but seemingly nobody cares about this little four feet tall, slim built, short hair, little boy. For so long, an unknown angel. Listen to our friends WHAS. Now the discovery was made by a person hunting for mushrooms over the weekend. Also new today, an autopsy was performed. We do know that police say the boy is only five to eight years old. They add that he could have been from anywhere, not just Southern Indiana. Investigators

say they have been searching the wooded area where the boy was found, but the information has not led them to any answers. And that is how the mystery, the puzzle began. But I'm still overwhelmed by just the words, a little boy folded up dead in a suitcase, a Vegas suitcase found in Indiana. But they have no idea where this little boy was from. Take a listen to our friends at WDRB. Right now, Indiana State Police isn't giving too many details on this case. But investigators do believe that somebody out there knows something that can help them figure out who this child was. We are looking for the public's

help in finding out the name of this child, this little boy who deserves answers. He deserves our help. Sergeant Kerry Hulls said Saturday night a mushroom hunter in the woods in rural Washington County discovered the body of a young boy. He noticed something and went to investigate and that's what he found. So very disturbing, very shocking, very traumatic event, very sad event. The man who found this boy, Jeff Meredith, is in agony, knowing he was one of the last people to see this child's face. When I first saw that little fella, immediately I felt that he was telling me,

help me, I need help. It sounds like it's out of an Agatha Christie mystery. A mushroom hunter, how likely is that? Very unlikely, finds a suitcase, opens the suitcase, and finds a little boy dead inside. The first place you start is, what was the COD, cause of death? Listen to our friends, WHAS 11. A boy found dead in southern Indiana remains nameless. His story and the suitcase he was found in have gained national attention. Hundreds of tips submitted and still no answers, for one we now know how the boy died at

this time there's no evidence that leads investigators to believe that he was alive when he went into the suitcase sergeant carrie hull says investigators got the autopsy and toxicology reports on may 20th seven days later they share this unnamed boy died from an electrolyte imbalance. Most likely due to gastroenteritis, which in common layman's term would be vomiting and diarrhea. And that resulted in dehydration. Fatal dehydration. And he says the toxicology report found nothing significant. If a little boy dies of vomiting and diarrhea, nobody noticed that he was vomiting and had horrible diarrhea till he was being starved. There was nothing in him anymore.

And he just died. Where was he? And I guarantee you didn't crawl into a suitcase and die and close that suitcase and maneuver it into the woods in Indiana. That didn't happen. So we have a COD cause of death, but still no name. Well, that little boy now has a name. Listen to our friends at the Indiana State Police.

At this time, we can also identify, excuse me, identify the young man that was found in the suitcase. He was Cairo Amar Jordan. Cairo Amar Jordan was from Atlanta, Georgia. He was five years old at the time of his death. And Cairo would have turned six on October 24th. Again, Cairo Amar Jordan. He was five from Atlanta, Georgia. A man hunting for mushrooms made the discovery in Washington County, Indiana on April 16th. But it wasn't until today

that investigators identified the little boy found inside as Cairo Jordan from Metro Atlanta. People who live in that Indiana community have waited since spring for answers. They named the child Angel and strangers were overcome with emotion as they held this memorial service 46 days after his body was found. Now their local mystery has turned into a nationwide search to find the child's mother. You were just hearing our friends at WSB2 as well. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now, including Max Lewis from Fox 59 in Indianapolis. But first, I want to go to Detective Matt Busick joining us from the Indiana State Police. Detective Busick, thank you for being with us. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Detective, do you recall when you first learned?

I mean, let me ask you something off point. Do you have children? Yes, ma'am, I do. How many? Six, actually. I'm guessing one of those is a little boy. Yes, I have three boys and three girls. Do you recall when you first learned, Detective Busick, that a five-year-old little boy weighing 40 pounds was found folded up dead in a Vegas suitcase? Yes, ma'am.

I do recall that. Tell me about it. Well, yes, it's very disturbing. Yes, it is. I pictured my own children to Dr. Thomas Plant joining me, professor of psychology and religious studies, and you'll see why he is so very critical in our discussion today. Adjunct professor of psychiatry at Stanford University, editor of Spirituality and Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction with the Divine, Sacred, Deceased. Dr. Plant, thank you so much for being with us.

Well, thank you for inviting me. Yes, sir. When I first heard about a five-year-old boy folded over dead, like an old coat in a suitcase abandoned no idea where he came from and critically no one had reported him missing all I could think about were my children John David and Lucy at age five and how defenseless they were dr. plant does the nature of crimes like this ever keep you from a clear head? like myself and like so many others, to what would it be like to discover our own child in such an awful, horrific condition. And so, of course, we always can relate.

And yet we have to be objective and thoughtful and try to do the best we can to understand the situation and act accordingly. Straight out to Max Lewis joining us, reporter with Fox 59 in Indianapolis. Max, I'm sure you recall when this Vegas suitcase was first discovered in Indianapolis with, obviously, you don't know whether the child is from Vegas or Indianapolis or somewhere else. It was shocking. This kind of thing doesn't, you know, we don't see this kind of thing every day. We rarely see this. And yeah, there were so many questions.

It was such a mystery. Where is this kid from? Why was he found out in the woods in rural southern Indiana? There were just so many questions for so long. And police really, from what we could tell, had nothing to go on. And luckily, they were able to, you know, to find out some things and officially give this little boy in the suitcase a name. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Remember a man who was mushroom hunting found the body of a little boy in a secluded wooded area of Washington County,

about 80 feet off a rural road in Indiana? It was April 17, 2022. Over one year ago, police released info in the case asking for help to ID the child or parents. They announced a dedicated tip line for information, 1-888-437-6432. They released information about the body, about the suitcase. People living there in New Peking came together for a vigil to show their support, praying his case would be solved. The child died from electrolyte imbalance, mostly due to vomiting their support, praying his case would be solved. The child died from electrolyte imbalance,

mostly due to vomiting and diarrhea, leading to dehydration. The suffering this child endured. Steve Kramer, how do you go about, how did they identify the body as little Tyro? In this particular case, I think it was a combination of fingerprints that were on the suitcase. I think that was the main thing. I think you're absolutely right, Steve Kramer. Steve, joining us from Indago Solutions. Guys, take a listen to our friends at WSB. DeJuan Anderson is now charged with murder. As that no crime scene evidence technologies were spared in this case. According

to court documents, police identified Anderson through fingerprints on trash bags used to wrap the child's body. An autopsy report shows Jordan did not suffer any signs of physical trauma. The autopsy listed the cause of death as electrolyte imbalance that caused a viral gastroenteritis. Yeah, and that is dehydration. Police believe after dumping that body that Anderson went to California with a woman named Dawn Coleman. Investigators were able to arrest Coleman in San Francisco, but they have yet to track down Anderson. They are still looking for her. So mommy's fingerprints, Steve Kramer, you called it, were all over that trash bag.

So I guess then, Steve Kramer, they find mommy and then they can deduce that it's baby Cairo. Was that your thinking, Steve? Yeah, correct. That's, I think, the logical deducement. Once they did some additional background information on Anderson, I think it was clear that she was traveling apparently all over the country with her child and with her friend, Don Coleman, whose fingerprints also, I understand, were found on the suitcase. Oh, OK. Right there. Wait a minute. So Max Lewis joining us, investigative reporter with Fox 59. We know that mommy and her friend, her running buddy,

left fingerprints all over the trash bag. But I mean, think about that image, putting the child in a trash bag and in a suitcase and leaving it. Max Lewis, I want you to take a listen to our friends WLKY and THR. On April 14th, investigators say cell phone towers and a home security camera placed Anderson and Coleman in Pekin, Indiana, near the wooded area where Jordan's body was found. This whole case is all about justice for Cairo. That's the only thing this case has ever been about. Investigators found a fingerprint on a trash bag in the suitcase with the boy's body. In June, the fingerprint match was made to the one Anderson. Another fingerprint from the trash bag in the suitcase matched Don Coleman.

The cell phones of both women placed them in the area of Pekin April 14th, two days before the suitcase was found. Coleman's social media accounts include photos and videos of her with a Las Vegas suitcase. Straight out to Max Lewis. So what role did cell phone pings play in the identification of the mother as a suspect? It played a huge role. The police, you know, they were both in the metro Louisville area for quite a while. And so once they sort of, you know, got their fingerprints, made the connection to them, they started piecing all of this stuff together.

They had, as you've heard, been crisscrossing the country together. Once they got into Louisville, they pinged there, which is close to where this suitcase was found in the wooded areas, not too far outside Metro Louisville. And they used those cell phone towers and were able to show that they were in the exact vicinity where that suitcase was found. Obviously, no coincidence there. And I bet anything, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, that the two cell phones were traveling together. The devil and the devil's minion.

Yeah, how do you get two people to enter into an agreement where they're going to do this to this baby like this? And Nancy, I don't want to gloss over this whole gastroenteritis thing. Thank you. I don't either. gloss over this whole gastroenteritis thing. Thank you. I don't either. Go ahead.

As horrible as it sounds, it would have been more merciful if that even exists in this context to put this baby out of his misery. Gastroenteritis is essentially what he had with stomach flu, and we can all identify with that. But it was untreated, Nancy. You remember when our babies were little and we'd go out and get them Pedialyte perhaps or make the Pedialyte popsicles because they've got a tummy problem. And his bowel was so inflamed. And that's what they found at autopsy. That was what was evidence there. His bowel was so inflamed that it led to his death. And he would have been vomiting. Plus, he would have had severe stomach cramps where he would be doubled over.

And probably the worst of this is that he would have had like explosive bowel movements as well. Explosive diarrhea, essentially. And he was going on. This is this is the horror. He's going untreated. They couldn't even give this baby electrolytes, which you can find in any number of things like Pedialyte. Or take him to the doc in a box. No offense, all you MDs.

They hate being called that. Yeah, it would have been that simple. They could have just hung an IV on this baby and he would have potentially survived. But they stood by, sat by the two of these women and let him suffer like that. Just think about your intestines swollen, red, hurting. Why do you get that, Joe Scott? It's as a result of this absence of electrolytes. No, I mean, how do you get the diarrhea and the uncontrolled vomiting to start with?

Where does that come from? Well, this is as a result of the viral gastroenteritis. And they're saying viral. So he literally had some type of virus in his body, okay, like a norovirus or one of these things that floats around that leads to a viral infection. And many times it'll set in in your gut like this. And so as you're losing all of these fluids, he's becoming dehydrated, Nancy. So he's losing these little electrolytes. And there's a variety of them. You've got sodium and chloride and potassium.

But basically, they're kind of the guardrails that keep our heart functioning, our brain functioning. It keeps us, you know, he could have had a seizure. Well, Joe Scott, sorry to interrupt you. But according to mommy, you're perfectly wrong. Oh, really? Because she believes it had nothing to do with the virus and it had everything to do with the devil. Take a listen to our cut 33 WTHR and WHAS. Social media posts from both women indicate they thought the boy was demon possessed. Eight days before the body was

discovered, Coleman posted, nothing is what it seems and we are catering to evil beings and children avatars that aren't even children. And five days before the body was discovered, Anderson posted, I have survived the death attacks from my five-year-old throughout the five years he has been alive. I have been able to weaken his powers through our blood. The probable cause affidavit shows Anderson sent Facebook messages claiming her son was a demon who tried to harm her. She wrote to an Indiana pastor saying she believed he was actually 100 years old and she used blood for some kind of exorcism. In reality, he was a defenseless five-year-old boy. Do I have to say the words Lori Vallow, cult mom Lori Vallow and her, what was he, Jackie, her fourth or fifth husband,

Chad Daybell, his wife mysteriously died in her sleep. She was as healthy as a horse. She just ran a marathon and then she dies in her sleep. Uh-uh. They killed her. It's a crutch using some completely opposite religion of what Christ intended. Not that I'm an expert, but I'm pretty sure this is not what he had in mind. Calling your five-year-old child the devil and demanding an exorcism. Both mommy, DeJohn Anderson, and her friend, Dawn Elaine Coleman's fingerprints found on the trash bag that encased baby Jordan's body. Law enforcement still actively seeking the mother. But it just doesn't make sense to me calling your five-year-old child the devil and demanding an exorcism. With us, Dr. Thomas Plant. You heard him earlier, professor of psychology and religious studies, clinical

professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford, and the editor of Spirituality and Clinical Practice, author of Human Interaction with the Divine, the Sacred, and the Deceased, Psychological, Scientific, and Theological Perspectives. Dr. Plant, what do you make of this? Well, you know, I think the bottom line is, you know, psychopathology can be a really terrible and brutal thing, and you can't diagnose someone from afar. But what it sounds like is that this, given the data that's been presented, is that it sounds like this person has a psychotic disorder, perhaps it's schizophrenia, could be bipolar, could be, since she has another person

involved with this, according to the report, you would wonder about what's called a shared delusional disorder or a philia-du, where two people share the same delusion. Right. Are you speaking French or Latin? Folie a deux. That's two, deux. Folie a deux is French. It means a folly of two, and that's a diagnosis also called shared delusional disorder.

Dr. Plant, I am just a JD. You are the professor of psychology and religious studies. Hold on just a, it's so much at once. Folly of two. Folly I do. And you're, because I can accept that one person could be schizophrenic or have some type of psychotic disorder, but two of them together in the same room and they agree to kill a baby and fold them up like a blanket and put them in a suitcase,

that, to me, is unreasonable. That there would be two people, equally psychotic, which leaves me with one answer. They're murderers. They knew what they were doing. They're hiding behind some crazy religious belief, and they're mean as hell. Well, as I mentioned, and they're mean as hell. Well, as I mentioned, you can't diagnose from afar, but according to the American Psychiatric Association, there are a legitimate diagnosis called filiado, or now it's called shared delusional disorder, and you do see it, and I've seen some of those cases.

A lot? Have you seen a lot of them? No, no. It's pretty unusual, but it's there. Just like, for example, schizophrenia affects maybe about one out of 100 people, which is, and folio do, or shared delusional disorder would probably be about one out of 1,000 people or so. That may or may not be the diagnosis, but I think the bottom line is you've got major psychopathology here, and I think that's probably pretty clear.

And the question is, you know, what do you do when you have a situation where people have such severe disorders and they have children in their possession or in their custody. That brings into issues of, you know, child protection and so forth, which are often challenging to deal with. There was probably early signs. This probably wasn't the first sign that this child was in trouble. To Steve Kramer, former FBI attorney and federal prosecutor, president of Indago Solutions. You know what? I am a Christian. I'm seeking the truth every day, trying to live it.

But this theory of hiding behind your religion in order to do horrible things, I'm not quite sure how to call that out. And we see it all the time. Well, I mentioned cult mom, Lori Vallow, using her apocalyptic religious beliefs and she gets slung up with Chad Daybell, the prophet. And for those of you that can't see me, I absolutely used air quotas on that.

And I've seen over and over and over Steve Kramer, parents that had some religious belief and they ended up starving their children or beating them all in the name of, dare I say it, God. And frankly, I mean, I hear Dr. Plant. I know he's a lot smarter than me, for sure. But it just doesn't make sense to me that a mother who could drive, hide her baby, still on the land, by the way. She's crazy, but she can elude police and plan her next spot. She's still not caught. She's got

Indiana state troopers standing on their ears trying to find her. There's a nationwide alert for her. So how crazy is she? Is she crazy like a fox, Steve Kramer? Does she have some psychosis? And if so, do you really believe both of them are delusional? I heard what Dr. Plant said about filial duty, folly of two, shared delusional disorder. Not mine. I would convict both of these women. Literally, their fingerprints are all over the garbage bag they stuffed this child into. Your turn, Kramer. Yeah, I mean, to call this a religion, come on, that's nonsense. I mean, this is, you know, babbling. Not you, Dr. Plant.

Not you. No, no, no, of course not. Just know that. The last thing I want to do is get a preacher mad, okay? I don't even need that in my life. Go ahead, Kramer. Just let's make sure Dr. Plant knows it's not about him.

But what he said is exactly what they're going to claim at trial if they're ever caught. Go ahead. Exactly. I mean, putting the stuff out on Facebook and Twitter about, you know, their child is, you know, an avatar

and my child's somehow possessed or I had to do some healing and I had to do some killing. I mean, the stuff they're saying, I mean, this is actually, unfortunately, not that uncommon. You know, we see cases like you mentioned, the Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell case where she killed her own children. We see other cases. A lot of times when we find children, young children, like I said, are incapable of taking care of themselves, that are abandoned someplace, dead, the bodies. When we eventually identify the parents, they are off with having some affair. The child was an inconvenience or they're on some drug high.

Again, the child's an inconvenience. So that aspect is not really uncommon. And I think in this particular case, I mean, you look at it, I mean, she said, I had to do some healing and killing. And that was around April 12th. And, you know, the body was found two days later, April 14th. And I'll just point out one key thing with this. And you mentioned it earlier too, Nancy, is they didn't think they were doing anything wrong and wanted to hide the baby or the five-year-old in a suitcase and put it out in the field. And why are they on the lam now? What are they running from if they haven't done anything

wrong? So clearly she knows that she's done something wrong. But what I find most interesting is her accomplice, John Coleman, they were both wanted on warrants of neglect of a dependent and obstruction of justice. And Coleman was arrested on the 19th of October. Less than a week later, those charges were upgraded to murder against Ms. Anderson. So obviously, she probably said something to the police exactly what happened with this child that allowed the police and the prosecutors to upgrade the charges from neglect to murder. Take a listen to WTHR.

A judge sentenced Don Coleman this morning in Cairo Jordan's death. This judge did not mince words. He told Don Coleman in court today, you packaged Cairo like trash. He was an innocent little boy who just wanted to be loved. You have wicked beliefs and wicked ways. Pointed words from a Washington County judge Tuesday as he sentenced Don Coleman. Now she'll spend a quarter century in prison. Unfortunately, the walls of your jail cell for the next 25 years

will be nothing compared to the walls of that suitcase. I hope the image is forever etched in your memory. Under the plea deal, Coleman has agreed to testify against Anderson when she's found and has her own day in court. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. There's such a history, Steve, of hiding behind some kind of religion while your child dies. Let's see, there's two-year-old, I made a list last night, Ella Grace. Her parents, Jonathan and Grace Ford, thought it was God's will their little two-year-old die. Then there's nine-year-old Jason Lockhart out of Oklahoma, much the same. Sixteen-year-old Neil Begley, much the same. And they hide behind religion while their child dies. That's what I'm seeing.

I mean, Max Lewis, Fox 59, joining us from Indianapolis. What's the reaction to mommy claiming her child was possessed? Well, you know, I am sort of speechless myself, and I think that's the way everybody else was. You know, she had tried to reach out to this priest in southeastern Indiana who was a well-known performer of exorcists, Vatican-trained exorcist, and wasn't able to get a hold of him. And so that claim, I think, or that sort of claim from her and the Facebook post that you were mentioning, I think was really shocking to everybody. I do want to make a point about something that Dr. Plant said. He said that this child was likely in danger

before, or there were likely signs before. Well, there was. She was actually, these two women, mom and Don Coleman, actually got into a car chase court record show down in South Carolina. They were running from the police going over 90 miles an hour on the interstate, and the little boy, Cairo, was in the car with them. I mean, that doesn't spell danger. I don't know what does. So, you know, clearly, I think what Dr. Plant said is correct. This boy was in danger before, had been in danger. And unfortunately, it appears the right steps weren't taken. And he ended up in this suitcase dead. Why wasn't the baby taken away then, Max Lewis? I mean, his siblings have been taken away. Why not him? I don't know. You know, it's really

a mystery and something that probably authorities in South Carolina maybe need to answer for, because when this car chase ended, you know, Anderson was the one driving. The mom was the one driving. And then Don Coleman was in the passenger seat. The baby was in the backseat. When this police chase ended, because they ran out of gas, they basically just dropped Don Coleman and the child off at a motel and took the mom to jail. And so the child was given right back to them. Wow, sounds like defects.

Department of Family and Children's Services on it again. Now we have another dead child. Seemingly, nobody but me cares because it keeps happening every day. Children in horrible, dangerous situations are left there because Child Protective Services does nothing. Now, speaking of exorcism, take a listen to our friends at Fox 59. The affidavit in the case details a series of strange social media posts police say Cairo's mother sent about demons, exorcism, and dark magic in the days before he was found. On April 12th, Anderson reached out to an Indianapolis priest,

Father Vincent Lampert, from the Archdiocese of Indianapolis on Twitter. Father Lampert is one of dozens of priests who are exorcists in the U.S. As you may know, an exorcist is someone trained to cast out demons. Father Lampert told us it's rare that a child dealing with, quote, demonic possession. There's no such thing as an emergency exorcism. It really begins with the person having a psychiatric evaluation by a qualified psychologist or psychiatrist and then having a medical examination by their family doctor. Mommy Anderson talks online about needing a, quote,

exorcism on her son to remove his demonic force. She even made a post about telling her story in a book or podcast about living with a, quote, demonic child. Dr. Plant, what exactly is an exorcism? An exorcist is trained to perform a ritual. As you know, the Catholic Church has lots of rituals, and this is one ritual of training so that they're trained through the Vatican and so forth. The Vatican approved.

And exorcists like this gentleman you just mentioned, and including the exorcists that I've worked with, will say that 99.9% of the time of cases are major psychopathology, and what's necessary is a psychiatric evaluation or medical evaluation and so forth, and their troubles are really in that arena. And I think that's true. When it comes to religion, sadly and tragically, some people use religion for great harm, and some people use religion for great good. And I think that it's sort of like a car. You know, a car can be a great thing. It gets you where you want to go.

But a car in the hands of a drunk driver is a terrible weapon. Same is true with religion in this case. As you said, this woman may have been using those imagery and things like that to justify her behavior, which is horrific. But, you know, sadly, that is a common phenomenon across the world. And it always has been where people project their troubles and whatnot onto kind of religion and then justify their actions in that way. What you said is entirely true, Dr. Plant. Joe Scott Morgan, I know forensics. I know crime. And that's what I'm going to fall back on when I don't understand the rest.

I want you specifically to take a listen to Courtney Spinelli, Fox 59. A child who for months was only known as the boy found in a suitcase in rural Indiana now has a name, five-year-old Cairo Jordan. This student has a really second hand. Cairo's paternal grandparents and great uncles say they only learned he died one day ago. I would have wanted to know what kind of person he would have come to be. Things like whether he would have grown up to play football like his dad did when he was younger. Authorities are still trying to find Kyra's mother, Dajon Anderson, now charged in his murder. All she had to do was just, you know, let us know and we would have easily took him. How many children, Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, have you been at the murder scene, the homicide scene, the death scene, the autopsy,

where mommy or daddy is the killer, but the rest of the family did nothing? They knew there was a problem. How could this family not know mommy was arrested for a felony in South Carolina and got the child back? And that's counting on the fact that the individual had contact with her family. But lots of times you'll have these individuals that will know. I mean, they will know that what's going on within that household is wrong and nobody interdicts it because nobody wants to get crossways with the family members. Nobody wants to create a problem with the family members, and all for what?

Now, in this particular case, you've got this baby who was abandoned like garbage. Let's just face it. That's the way he was treated out in the middle of the woods. And you can't tell me there weren't red flags leading up to this. I've seen this over and over and over again, Nancy. Hard to believe that with all of the available tools at our fingertips, Mommy DeJohn Anderson still on the run, running from Lady Justice after her child found stuffed in a Vegas suitcase in the middle of the woods, dead.

Disturbingly, we learn Mommy Anderson arrested in South Carolina for child endangerment, speeding, and failure to stop for officers. Anderson only stopped when she ran out of gas. Just before Tiny Kyrie's body was found, Mommy Anderson arrested in Louisville for shoplifting and assault. We learned that Mommy's friend Coleman claims to have been babysitting Cairo after Anderson was arrested. After picking up Anderson, they went to stay at a cousin's home in Louisville. According to a witness, the witness comes into a bedroom to find Anderson on top of the baby boy, the boy

face down on a mattress. Court documents only recently released claimed the witness told investigators, quote, it was already done. When the witness came in the bedroom to find the little boy dead, Dijon Anderson, aka Mommy, had already gathered trash bags in the bedroom used to stuff the tot's body in a suitcase. To somehow rationalize the murder, Mommy claimed her son was, quote, possessed as she drove to Indiana to dump the suitcase. Mommy's phone pinged to peek in Indiana, not far from where Kyra's body found. Additionally, we learned surveillance video from a property owner shows Mommy's car stop on the road where the suitcase was discovered. After combing social media, we learned that Mommy's friend had the very same suitcase in which the boy's body was found.

On the very same day the Vegas suitcase was discovered, video allegedly shows Mommy's car driving across a bridge from Indiana to Louisville. A felony murder arrest warrant has been issued for Anderson, but she's currently on the run, last believed to be in the L.A. area. Cops say they've searched for her in the metro L.A. area, but came up empty-handed. Last known location, Echo Park, L.A. But she's known to travel far and wide, recently having been in San Francisco, San Diego, Las Vegas, and Houston. Her contacts reach all the way back to Georgia, where little Cairo was born. Anderson, 5'5", 135 pounds, short, dark brown hair in last known photo, often prone to wear wigs or hair extensions. I don't care how many extensions she wears, nothing is going to change those fingerprints. According to recently released court documents,

we learned police used technology to pull fingerprints from trash bags that encased the tiny boy's body stuffed in a suitcase. Those prints a 100% match to mommy DeJohn Anderson. I want justice. I want little Kyra's mother, DeJohn Anderson, brought back to court to face a jury and a true verdict. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.