Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOY BLUDGEONED DEAD BY BRAGGING MILLIONAIRE TEEN AND FRIENDS?

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Did an Arizona multimillionaire cover up his son's involvement in murder? Did his teen boy take part in brutally beating another boy dead, kicking, beating until the boy lie there unconscious and dies? have to apologize for allowing the multimillionaire dad's car to be valeted when this goes to court. What is happening? Does this guy really believe because he's a multimillionaire, he's somehow above the law? Because I got news for you. You're not. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Starting point is 00:01:07 Thank you for being with us. What happened the night of that fateful party? A group of teens getting together at a Halloween party. How could it go so wrong? 911 emergency. Hey, I'm at a party. What's going on? Take a deep breath. There's a bunch of people out here with guns and shit.

Starting point is 00:01:33 He just jumped my friend and he's knocked out on the ground. He's been unconscious for like two minutes. We need people over here. Okay, I'm getting them started, okay? Don't hang up. Just stay on the line with me. Thank you so much. You are hearing the 911 call from the night this young boy was beaten and kicked brutally until he dies. We've got an all-star panel, but first I want to go out to veteran criminal defense attorney, high-profile lawyer in inner-city Atlanta, Raymond Giudice at RayGLaw.com. Ray, as you know, you as a defense attorney, me as a prosecutor,

Starting point is 00:02:13 the first thing I would like to do when I struck a jury is play the 911 call. Because witnesses can tell their version on the stand, but there's nothing like what happened at the moment. Agree, disagree. Totally agree. It's how you're going to open up your opening statement to a jury. It also sets your timeline for the events that will occur both at the scene and post investigation. Well, you're right. And the first thing you want to do is set up the timeline. Speaking of the 911 call in front of a jury, I would play it straight out all the way through. Now listen to more of that 911 call. Listen. Do you know the people that did this? Are they still there or have they left? I don't know if they left or they're still here. I got out of there as quick as possible. So I didn't get hurt. I don't know

Starting point is 00:03:03 the people that are here. We don't have any beef with them or anything. Do you know, did you see the people that assaulted them? Did you see them well enough to get any description, or did you not see it actually happen? They all had ski masks on, and it was... How many was it? A lot. Like four or five or more? Like 15. Okay.

Starting point is 00:03:29 This is every parent's worst nightmare. Group or gang mentality. The first case I ever had like this, at that time we called it wilding when young people or people in general do things as part of a pack that they would never do on their own take a listen to more of that 9-1-1 call i was not waking up no i know i'm on the phone with 9-1-1 i know i know you're fine we're getting in he has a he has a pulse he just got got a pulse. Here, take his stuff. Take all the stuff. Oh my. Please, please, please. Are you still there? I'm still here. Okay. Did he say your friend has a pulse now? Yes. Okay, that's good. Oh my God, dude. I'm so dead. Okay, here we go.

Starting point is 00:04:26 They're here? Yeah, they're here. You can hear the police arriving in the background, and you hear the callers and the teens gathered around what would soon be a dead body saying, I am so dead. They're worried about themselves being in trouble. And it's amazing to me. I'm about to go to Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. It's amazing to me that within hours, literally hours of this teen boy, just 16 years old.

Starting point is 00:04:57 And you know, Alexis, this is the age of my John David and Lucy, within hours of him being pronounced dead, people were already trying to get money. Listen to Nicole Parton, Crime Online. As Preston Lord lays unconscious on the pavement, friends determine his heart has stopped. Other partygoers perform CPR until police arrive and take over. Lord is taken by ambulance to Chandler Regional Hospital, then transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely critical condition with a severe

Starting point is 00:05:31 brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs to his injuries. For those involved, Lord's death is fodder for social media. Some trying to figure out how to cash in on the reward money offered for information about what happened. The suspects discussed the fight over Snapchat with one of the messages reading, My mom wants in on the $10,000. These messages are some of the first real clues police begin to follow. I don't understand, Alexis Tereschuk. Within hours after this boy is pronounced dead, people are trying to get thousands of dollars. How is that?

Starting point is 00:06:07 So the police offered a reward, a $10,000 reward for any information about this case, because as the kids said on the 911 call, they were in a mask. So at first people were thinking, oh, we don't know the identity of who these people are that beat this little boy to death because they had masks on. So there was a $10,000 reward offered for information leading to an arrest. However, these kids that are all talking are the ones that were involved in the beating. And they're so callous. They're saying, oh, my mom wants in on the money because they were involved in it. So if the mom turns in another kid, they'll get the money. But all of these kids were involved and they were on top of him, punching him, hitting him. In fact, so he goes knock to the ground and these guys were on top of him, dry humping him. So simulating like sex or raping this, this body that was on the ground now, which all these other kids, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:01 there were hundreds of kids at this party were watching this happen they're desperately calling 9-1-1 they're trying to get it stopped they're scared because they'd seen guns and it really it started because apparently one of the guys grabbed a gold necklace off a girl there just ripped it off her and stole it so preston tried to get it back he wasn't fighting with the guy these guys he wasn't saying bad things then wasn't he just tried to get his friend's necklace back like being a stand-up gentleman for his friend. And that's when they unleashed on him. Guys, the day Preston Lord, this teen boy, dies, apparently another kid, a rich brat with a silver spoon in his mouth, dad, his multimillionaire dad, Travis Renner, goes to work, according to sources, and I'd love to hear from Mr. Renner if he would join us, trying to cover up his son's involvement. Take a listen to Crime Online's Dave Mack.

Starting point is 00:08:01 The day Preston Lord passes away, Talon renner's millionaire father travis renner goes to work trying to cover up the teen's involvement renner and his business partner allegedly hand out ndas and push a story that despite talon renner having thrown the first punch talon vigil was truly to blame for lord's death renner tells the school his son is being bullied and whisks talon away to his $800,000 golf club cabin in Show Low, Arizona for a week while Talon's hands heal from the fight. Meanwhile, Talon Renner brags to friends on Snapchat, I got in a fight, a big group fight, and I accidentally killed a kid. I guess I'm just too strong. Joining me right now, board certified forensic pathologist,

Starting point is 00:08:42 former medical examiner in Vegas. Never a lack of business there. Dr. Jan Gorniak. Dr. Gorniak, I'm going to circle back to you about the injury sustained by the boy, the dead boy. But what do you believe they're talking about after seeing so many dead bodies in the morgue, when we say that we have been told, informed, the father kept his son away for about a week till his, quote, injuries healed. What are they talking about? So obviously, when you have any blunt injuries, that means your body hit something or something hit your body. So in this case of this young thug, he actually has injuries on his hands because his hands hit something. Unfortunately, this young man's head. So he's going to have contusions or bruises on his hands. So it's going to probably take, depending if he has any other cuts on his hand, it's going to take some

Starting point is 00:09:43 time for them to heal. And Dr. Gorniak, you have studied the case. What can you tell us about the victim's injuries? I understand he was beaten and kicked dead. He laid there on the ground while all of these, I guess, friends, frenemies beat him dead. But what is the actual cause of death in a case like this? In a case like this, it sounds like his injuries are blunt force injuries of the head. He got hit so hard with obviously fists. I'm not sure when they're beating him while he's down, does that mean also any kicks? I'm not sure. But he has extensive head trauma so therefore he also has some bleeding within his his brain so blood on your brain um causes some swelling of your brain um which is incompatible with life and we heard

Starting point is 00:10:35 that he was unconscious at the scene you know right after the injuries occurred so it sounds like he was hit so hard, plus his head probably hit concrete. So that in combination really caused some devastating injuries that caused him to go unresponsive immediately. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I'm also curious, and I'd like you to address this. It's reminding me a little bit. I know that you follow very closely the case of high-profile lawyer out of South Carolina, Alex Murdoch. He was ultimately convicted in the double murder of

Starting point is 00:11:25 his wife, Maggie, and son, Paul. Immediately, he tried to change the narrative. What does that mean? That's the now talk of getting someone to change their story. Because right at the get-go, we've been told, and again, I welcome the multimillionaire dad to come on and clear all this up, but apparently Renner's millionaire dad, Tristan Renner, goes to work trying to cover up his son's alleged involvement. Renner and his business partner, yeah, go ahead and rope in your buddy in this, allegedly hand out NDAs, that's a non-disclosure agreement, and push a story that the son, the millionaire son, Talon Renner, having thrown the first punch, that the victim is truly to blame.

Starting point is 00:12:19 Okay, I don't understand that. Now claiming that his millionaire son has been bullied. Well, when it's just, That's completely bass-ackwards. I mean, can't you go to jail for witness tampering, Ray? Well, Phoenix, Arizona is a big town, Nancy, but they're going to have to import lawyers from all over the country for all the extra defendants, including parents and business associates, potentially, for the quote-unquote changing the narrative slash cover-up. But what you're clearly trying to set up is a self-defense accident case, that perhaps

Starting point is 00:12:53 a fight broke out between two young men over a disagreement, and the young man fell, and as the doctor said, hit his head on the back of the concrete, back of the head on the concrete. And my son may have struck him, but there's a causation issue as to which blows cause the fatality. Again, shaping the narrative, shaping their opening statement for trial. But again, there is going to be a lot. This is the Lawyer Employment Act of 2024 for Metro Phoenix. The Lawyer Employment Act of 2024. Hold Phoenix. The Lawyer Employment Act of 2024. Hold on. Is that Gorniak?

Starting point is 00:13:29 Yes, it is. Gorniak. Dr. Gorniak, hold on before I lose my train of thought here. No worries. Because I'm scared right now. Did you hear what Raymond Giudice just said? And he completely said it with a straight face. Okay.

Starting point is 00:13:44 This kid was beaten. He was down on the ground, still being beaten, still being punched until he dies. He dies. Why am I angry? Because my son and my daughter are the same age as this boy. They go to parties. And you heard Judice put him up. You hear Judice just spin it. He's spinning it. You don't like what he says? I don't. But that's

Starting point is 00:14:15 what's going to happen in court. And district attorney, you darn well better be ready. Did you hear what he says? Changing the narrative. What does that mean? Lying. That's what changing the narrative means that now the victim fell. The victim did not fall. He was punched. And we know, according to witnesses who threw the first punch, he fell. And now we're going to have a causation issue. My rear end. Gornier, you started this. All right. Now, Judice picked it up and ran with it. Then he fell and just died.

Starting point is 00:14:55 He fell and died. You know, I've fallen a lot, a lot. Running, chasing the children, being a cheerleader, this, that. I never just died because I fell. But this is the spin out. This is a new recitation. History is being rewritten by Gorniak. And, you know, Gorniak, I always agree with you.

Starting point is 00:15:18 And Giudice. That's what's going to happen at trial, Ray. That's what's going to happen at trial. What you just did. A tipster notifies police that Talon Renner admitted to a friend that he threw the first punch. Owen Hines told a friend he only kicked him in the stomach. Nearly all the witnesses point out Tristan Billy and Dominic Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night. Turner wore all black while Billy donned a white suit. Using the suspect's

Starting point is 00:15:45 digital media, investigators find Taylor Sherman, who admits to taking a video of Preston as he is unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat. Talon Vigil also sent a message reading, I hit a kid and this kid fell, hit his head. Then they kicked his head in the ground. Then I got word he died. So IDK. You are hearing Sidney Sumner from CrimeOnline.com. And what stands out to me is that a tipster notifies police that the millionaire juvenile, Talon Renner, admits he throws the first punch. And then it's a free for all with this little boy being kicked and beaten dead. Seven young men, including the high school football star Talon Renner, age 17, which

Starting point is 00:16:31 is important, why is he in juvenile court, have been charged in the brutal murder of teen boy Preston Lord. We are also learning that group violence by teens in the Phoenix area is growing. And now there's a huge wave of public, of citizens demanding justice. That there is not two-tier justice. One for the rich man and one for the poor man. But that's what it seems to be shaping up as after local law enforcement give Preston, give Talon Renner's parents special valet parking for their Tesla at the courthouse. Then they had to backtrack and apologize. Ouch, that's embarrassing. But right

Starting point is 00:17:26 now, instead of discussing the dad's Tesla, let me bring back in Dr. Jan Gorniak, a renowned medical examiner and high profile lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction, Raymond Giudice. Dr. Gorniak, you were clarifying your analysis. What were you saying? wouldn't have fallen and hit his head. I've had cases where someone swung and missed and fell and ended up dying. And that still ruled a homicide. So I understand what the defense might come in and try to say, but from where I sit, that's still a homicide. Just because, I mean, but for a punch, he wouldn't have just fallen and hit his head. It wasn't like he tripped and fell down the stairs. Something contacted his head to cause him to fall. So that's why no matter what they come in and say, this would still be ruled a homicide from the medical examiner standpoint. Okay, you're right, Dr. Gorniak, but somebody like Raymond Giudice is going to take that thread and run with it till your whole sweater is nothing but a pile of yarn.

Starting point is 00:18:49 It's going to be all over. It's like a pack of cats tore it up. Because you're absolutely correct. This boy would not be on the ground dying if that first punch had not been thrown. There's your but four. He's going to argue at trial. Yeah, he threw the first punch, but he didn't kill him.

Starting point is 00:19:09 Well, this is what I would say as a prosecutor. They're all going in the same pot to stew. Nobody's getting a plea. Everybody is going to trial for murder because I want you jury to think what it would be like lying on the floor, the ground, the pavement, looking up at all these faces and Halloween masks. This bizarre scenario when you're taking a blow to the head, a kick to the kidney, so vicious, you end up dying. And the last thing you see is this gang of animals over you dressed in these Halloween outfits kicking and beating you dead.

Starting point is 00:20:04 Oh, hell no. Nobody is getting a plea. All right. Go ahead, Ray. Well, I agree with the doctor. She's an expert. But the argument that I made, which I believe we will have expert testimony to, will at least allow, number one, a lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter to a jury. OK, that's number one. And you know how critical that is. It allows a jury to fine for a lesser included charge. It allows the defense to argue that in closing. And I'll bet you dimes and dollars, Nancy, one of these young men is going to take a plea. And now you know how it works.

Starting point is 00:20:46 They're not taking a plea unless I offer a plea. You can't take a plea that hasn't been offered. They'll take a plea. You wait and see. Someone's going to offer it. Now, I know you. You might not offer it. And I agree with you.

Starting point is 00:20:58 I understand how you would play it. But I guarantee you, close to trial, somebody's going to roll. Someone's going to come up and be a state's witness so they can get that murder conviction that you want. No, I want a murder conviction on everybody that laid a hand or a foot on this boy that touched a hair on his head. I want them all.

Starting point is 00:21:22 I would not be happy with just one. And I don't want the rich kid to be the scapegoat. They're all part of this. And you know what's so great about it? They were taking videos. These jackasses, technical legal expert, president, CEO of Digital Mountain Inc. Julie, if anything could make me happy about this scenario, it's the advent of a cell phone. They're all taking videos. And how do you think a jury is going to react to a gang attack on a single victim already down unarmed? Not good. Not good. Those smartphones have a ton of digital evidence. In this case, they're using Snapchat as their messaging app for pictures and messages. And there's a lot of other things like Instagram, social media online that can be looked at. We do that all the time. We do open source intelligence investigations. With kids, they have no filter. These messages also, you have to get them quickly

Starting point is 00:22:35 because a lot of these are ephemeral applications like Snapchat. If you do a snap, it'll disappear by default immediately unless the user changes it to holding a message for 24 hours or not at all. Julie. Yes. That was my next question because all the time my twins are going, wow, I got so and so Snapchat. I'm like, show me. They go, it's gone.

Starting point is 00:23:02 I don't know if they're just telling me that. Yeah. Or if it really is gone. Can they retrieve a Snapchat? Can it be retrieved by LA law enforcement? So law enforcement has access to be able to see more on the phones than we can on the commercial side. It's called a physical image.

Starting point is 00:23:22 And in that, those databases could be decrypted. Okay, you've already lost me. Is that a yes or a no? Can it depend? You're saying yes, I can retrieve a Snapchat. I'm going to give you a lawyer answer. It depends. Listen, I'm a lawyer. I can try a murder case doing what you're doing. They didn't teach me that in criminal law. So I just need a black and white. Is there a chance I can get those snaps back? It's possible. So it's similar to having a camera in your office that's randomly taking screenshots. There are parts of the phone that store things in something called memory.

Starting point is 00:23:56 And so it depends. Okay. You know what? I'm going to have to work with you, as I've told many a witness, because you're not helping me right now. All right? I've got to narrow this thing down and get an answer that when I say a jury will understand, I mean that I will understand. And quick question, Alexis Torres Chuck. And I want Juliette Lewis to hear that. Julie Lewis to hear this. It's not just the snaps, Alexis.

Starting point is 00:24:19 These jackasses bragged. They sent texts back and forth. Okay, that's the first time I've seen that smirk wiped off of Judah Chase's face. Because now, is it true that there are not just snaps which can disappear, but there are texts? Yes. Text messages where the kids are saying, I hit the kid, he hit his head. The other kids jumped on the ground. I think he died. Another one, Talon Renner says, I got in a fight with a kid.

Starting point is 00:24:50 I hit him. I think he died. I didn't even know my own strength. Another kid writes, bro, that kid died. They know it. And they're saying, also, one of them said, do not delete the video because you can use that and you can get $10,000. This is the $10,000 the FBI announced as a reward.

Starting point is 00:25:09 They said, you can use that and you can get the money. So they're all admitting they knew that there was video of this murder. Bragging? Did I just hear Alexis Tereszczyk say bragging and deleting evidence? Did I hear that? Was somebody bragging and did someone ask for everyone to delete or not delete evidence? They were bragging to each other. They were messaging each other, not just pictures on Snapchat, messaging each other. And they, and then another kid wrote to the kid that had the video who had taken video at the fight and said, dude, don't delete that video because you can get $10,000 because the police had offered a reward for it. So they're saying your video could be given as evidence and then you could win, not win, but you can get the reward money.

Starting point is 00:26:00 So they are clearly stating there is video of the murder and that they should not delete it because it can be used to help them get money. So they are clearly stating there is video of the murder and that they should not delete it because it can be used to help them get money. No, oh, this is going to help our friend go to jail. This is going to take the bad guys out, but you're going to get money. You're going to cash in on this. You know what? The jury is going to have a bad taste in their mouth about all of these guys. That is why defendants very often will seek a severance. In other words, they want to be tried separately from each other. But if it's not a death penalty case and there are no interlocking statements where one defendant brings, blames the other defendant, if the state doesn't use those, these guys are going to be tried together. Why is that significant? Because let's just pretend Alexis and I rob a bank and I blame Alexis because, of course, it's going to be her fault.

Starting point is 00:26:51 If we're tried together, she won't be able to cross-examine me on me blaming her because I'm certainly not going to take the stand. No way. That denies her under the Sixth Amendment of her right to confront the state's witnesses. Even though I'm a defendant in a bank robbery, I'm still a state's witness. So if the state chooses not to use those interlocking confessions, then they can be tried together. And what I advise to the state, not that they care what I think, but don't use the statements. You don't need them. You've got video people. Try them all together. Again, stew in the same pot. I want to address to Julie Lewis, digital forensics expert, CEO of Digital Mountain. What about what Alexis just told us that a lot of these communications

Starting point is 00:27:47 were not a picture, which is normally what Snapchat is, but a written message. How about those? Please give me a yes. No, do not go into digital land. Just tell me, can I get those messages back? Okay. I won't. Oh, here she goes. Go ahead. Well, I just want to educate a little bit. So snaps can be snaps, video, and pictures. And then there's chats, which are also in Snapchat. And Snapchat is meant to delete things fairly quickly. So snaps are usually a default, and the chats are within 24 hours. But don't forget about the native message on the phone as well. So there's all these different messaging apps that teenagers use.

Starting point is 00:28:29 And you've got to look at them all because there could be more evidence there in the photos and pictures and all sorts of stuff that are your treasure trove. What is a native message? That's what's the messaging app on the phone that comes pre-installed. That's not a third-party app. Okay. So you mean like it's not snap. So the phone itself may contain evidence. Okay. Let's see our defense attorney expert, Raymond Giudice. So, you know, all that stuff you were saying, let me get in my notes. I think I threw them away.

Starting point is 00:29:00 All your theory about, oh, he just fell and just died because he fell. And what did you say? Oh, I've got to find, there's going to be a quote causation issue, a causation issue translation. The defense is going to claim that the beating inflicted by these seven people is not why the guy died. This little boy died because he fell. All right. That's where he's going. But what about the videos? What about the text messages? What about the messages via Snap? And as Julie said, the messages native to the phone that don't just disappear on a third party app. You think you might be in a little hot water now? It's the timeline. You're going to start with those 911 recordings, and you're going to move, as our technical expert just stated, all of these emails and text messages and photos will have a time stamp,

Starting point is 00:29:56 and a good prosecutor is going to surgically, one after another, set out the time frame. Quite frankly, the prosecution team's biggest problem may be having too many texts and statements coming from who knows who. But again, sometimes, Nancy, when there's not a severance and you've got seven co-defendants with high-priced legal counsel, confusion, I hate to use it, but that's part of the defense strategy. It wasn't me who punched him that caused the death causation. It's co-defendant Johnson who kicked him in the stomach that caused the death. And that's what you're going to see at trial. One quick thing.

Starting point is 00:30:37 One quick thing. I think they're all going to be treated as adults and tried in, as you call it, big boy court. However, the option of taking a defendant, a co-defendant, and treating him as a juvenile is a very enticing situation for a plea bargain. Keep that in mind. That's interesting because I've never been enticed ever to allow a killer to plead out in juvie.'m not happy about the situation but i did try a 13 year old for murder in adult court did i like it no was it my duty yes did he get convicted yes because he jumped into a pawn shop stole a handful of dope ropes gold chain shot three people killing one and leaving the other one

Starting point is 00:31:26 in a wheelchair in a colostomy bag for the rest of his life. Hell no, he's not being treated as a juvenile. That said, I've never heard of too much evidence for the state, but thank you for floating another defense theory. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me, the woman who made the initial 911 call trying to get help for the teen boy victim. Listen to her 911 call. Can we please get an officer at the corner of 197th Place and V-Day Palmers? There has got to be at least 250 kids here. They're walking the streets.

Starting point is 00:32:15 We're not used to this. I'm not used to this in my neighborhood from being here 25 years. There's too many cars. These kids are going to hit each other. Someone's going to get hurt. Someone's going to get killed. Someone's going to get killed. With us, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now about the death of Preston Lord, a teen boy beaten dead. But first, I want to go to Gina Pignatello, the neighbor who called 911. Gina, it's amazing that you called 911 and that you're joining us tonight because you know what?

Starting point is 00:32:52 I've learned that the majority of people, I don't get it, don't do anything. They stand by and watch or they video with their cell phone while somebody is either raped or assaulted or murdered. But you didn't. And I want to start with that and say thank you. Gina, tell me what happened that night. Yeah, I appreciate that and forgive my emotion in listening to that and hearing you. It brings back that evening, but we live at the entrance of the subdivision and there were dozens upon dozens upon dozens of cars parked back to back every side of the street coming in and out of the subdivision. Teenagers, large groups of teenagers walking everywhere.

Starting point is 00:33:50 You know, in a normally quiet neighborhood, it was kind of shocking to walk out and see this kind of mass crowd forming and coming in and out of the subdivision. My husband and I immediately said, we might want to call the police. And as soon as we're saying that, we see the police actually come into the subdivision. Within another five to 10 minutes, we watched the police circle the block and leave. And you immediately started, teens just continued to fill the neighborhood. You could clearly see students or children walking with bottles, cans, appeared to be intoxicated. Some were yelling, you know, and then we started to see accidents. Yelling what, Gina?

Starting point is 00:34:26 You know, they were, they were yelling things like, oh, don't get drunk kids, you know, just appearing intoxicated and holding what looked like hands up in the air. You know, so you could see this was starting to get rowdy as in the streets. And then within a few minutes of that, you started, we started seeing accidents. So now they're jam packed in this neighborhood. Some are trying to get in and out of the subdivision. You can't even turn off the main road and they start rear ending one another. They might hop out quickly, look, and then they're driving away from these accidents. We hear another accident down the road. And then within seconds, we start seeing groups of teens jumping over our back fence or coming out of our backyard, jumping into our front yard, running into cars.

Starting point is 00:35:13 And I said, this is getting out of control. We've got to call 911. And we need the police back here. And that's when I made my call. And when I made that call, I didn't know at the same time the attack on Preston and the other young boys was taking place at that same exact time. With me is Gina Pignatello, who is speaking out. A boy is dead. And can I tell you, Preston Lord is the age of my twins. Their whole life in front of them. But instead of graduating from high school and going on all these college tours I've got planned for them,

Starting point is 00:35:58 it's over for him. And it's not just him that's gone. His parents' hopes, their dreams, all their energy, all their love, all their money into their boy, Preston Lord. When did you learn, Gina Pignatello, that a boy had been essentially stomped dead in your neighborhood? Yeah, my neighbors and I actually didn't learn the details until Monday. So this occurred Saturday evening. And we didn't learn the details until Monday. You know, we began kind of neighbor sharing text and the GoFundMe.

Starting point is 00:36:41 Oh, my goodness, this poor young man is fighting for his life. And then within a few hours, we learned that he had died. Yeah, just we could have never, you know, imagined. The parents were in, it was their Super Bowl. Their son was coming into his own. All those years of love and nurturing. And now this? When you learned about what happened, Gina, what were you told? Did everybody know who did it? Pretty immediately, I like to call them the kind of parents of the East Valley, began sharing and setting up. We've heard these names. We've seen these Snapchat

Starting point is 00:37:27 messages. Groups started forming because we were getting no answers. But I can tell you within those first few days, that first week, the names we saw that were arrested were the same names we saw within those first few days. We heard about the families, like the renters, taking their son to hide him up in the mountains to hide injuries. These parents that began gathering all this information, much of what was in the police report released just last week, we were learning and had and we're getting videos within that first week of this incident happening. Joining me now, esteemed forensic psychologist, Dr. Sherry Schwartz. She specializes in capital mitigation and victim advocacy. You can find her at panthermitigation.com. And she's the author. She literally wrote the book on criminal

Starting point is 00:38:20 behavior and another book where law Law and Psychology Intersect. Dr. Sherry Schwartz, thank you for being with us. I was saying at the beginning, Dr. Sherry, and I'm sure you can say it much more eloquently than I can, people do things in a group they wouldn't normally do on their own. Do I care? No. I care that this boy is dead and the millionaire defendant's father has been hiding him out in a million dollar golf cabin. There's such a thing as flight after a crime where you hide from law enforcement.

Starting point is 00:38:57 That never looks good. But can I talk to you? Oh, there. Oh, that is nice. I want to talk to you about the group mentality here and whether it actually relieves anyone of responsibility. Well, I work also, Nancy, on a lot of juvenile direct file cases. When I say direct file, basically what I mean is they're charged as an adult. And in my experience, no, it doesn't absolve them of legal responsibility. I think people can argue it doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility. I expect that some super lawyers like Ray Giudice will come forth with arguments about juvenile brain and how their brain isn't fully developed. And this can account for some of the behavior. And there's group dynamics at work as well, such as mob mentality. There's group dynamics at work as well, such as mob mentality. There's always at least one or two leaders. The larger the group, the less informed the fringe members are, but they go along. They conform with the behavior.

Starting point is 00:39:54 But still, at the end of the day, under the legal system, in my experience, this doesn't really much matter. They're going to be held accountable just the same as the person that started the brawl. You know I've told myself a million times because it's easy that my fiance Keith didn't feel anything when he was dying. He was shot five times in the face and the neck and the head and I like to believe that, but I know inside that's not true. He had to feel at least the first bullet. He had to know something horrible was happening. This is a teen boy. Preston Lord is dead, and he's never coming back. And so help me God in heaven. There will be justice. Let us stop and remember an American hero, Sergeant Nevada Krenke. He was shot dead, end of watch, at just 33 years old, Sheridan, Wyoming. A father, a U.S. veteran, eight years of service

Starting point is 00:41:08 in Afghanistan. He survived by his wife, Carla, and his baby daughter, Bella. Nevada Kroenke. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an I heart podcast.

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOY BLUDGEONED DEAD BY BRAGGING MILLIONAIRE TEEN AND FRIENDS?

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Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOY BLUDGEONED DEAD BY BRAGGING MILLIONAIRE TEEN AND FRIENDS?

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