Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BOYFRIEND CLAIMS MURDER WAS REALLY JUST ROUGH SEX

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

RJ McLeod and Krystal Mitchell meet when she shows him an apartment. McLeod, a large man, is a bodybuilder and former Marine. As they start dating, Krystal tells her mother about this new man in her life, noting that he is also a devoted father to his son. Krystal confides in McLeod about her issues with a stalker, and McLeod gives her a gun for protection. The pair travels to California to visit some of RJ’s friends in San Diego. After socializing with his friends, RJ and Krystal head to a local bar for a few drinks. They return to the condo after 1 a.m. About an hour later, the friend’s wife hears a woman sobbing, followed by a sound like “ah,” and then silence. The next morning, McLeod greets the friend’s wife as he passes through the kitchen on his way out of the apartment. The friend and his wife leave, but when the friend returns around 1 p.m., he finds the apartment silent. He opens the guest bedroom door and immediately calls 911. McLeod’s friend finds Krystal Mitchell in bed, partially nude, bloody, and deceased. On the 911 call, he initially tells the dispatcher, “this is a homicide.” He adds that he tried unsuccessfully to revive her. Investigators later determine there were clear signs of a struggle, with furniture shifted around the room. Krystal Mitchell sustained numerous injuries, including blunt force trauma to her face and torso. She had been strangled, with multiple fractures around her neck. Investigators learn that McLeod returned to a nearby bar around noon to pay his tab from the night before and retrieve his credit card. He tells a waitress he has a “flight to catch.” McLeod takes Krystal Mitchell’s car to the San Diego airport, parks it, rents a different car, and drives into Mexico. Police name RJ McLeod as a person of interest in Krystal Mitchell’s death, and officials issue a warrant for his arrest on murder charges. For six years, investigators believe McLeod is hiding in Central America or Mexico. Reports emerge of sightings in Guatemala, Belize, and Mexico, but McLeod remains elusive. Authorities finally capture him in El Salvador and return him to the United States, where he claims Krystal’s death was a case of rough sex gone wrong. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Josephine Wentzel - Krystal Mitchell's Mother   Eric Faddis – Partner at Varner Faddis Elite Legal; Former Felony Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense and Civil Litigation Attorney; Instagram: @e_fad @varnerfaddis; TikTok: @varnerfaddis Sheryl McCollum  – Forensics Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder; Host of Podcast: “Zone 7;” X: @149Zone7 Dr. Marlena Ryba  -  Clinical Psychologist and Research Consultant at Dr. Long and Associates; LINKEDIN: marlenamryba    Dr. Priya Banerjee – Board Certified Forensic Pathologist, Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting; X: @Autopsy_MD Lauren Conlin – Investigative Journalist, Host of The Outlier Podcast, and also Host of “Corruption: What Happened to Grant Solomon; X- @Conlin_Lauren/ Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin/YouTube- @LaurenConlin4 IIrv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” Twitter: @JackSoloAuthorr  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A boyfriend claims murder was really just rough sex. That's the defense. This, after bounty hunters and U.S. marshals chase this guy, McLeod, all the way around the world after he murders a beautiful young mom, now he tells me it was, quote, rough sex, sex gone wrong? Really?

A little girl is left without her mother because of sex gone wrong. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. A gorgeous 30-year-old is excited to travel to San Diego with her new boyfriend. Little did she know that would be her final trip. Crystal was a visitor in San Diego with her new boyfriend. Little did she know that would be her final trip. Crystal was a visitor in San Diego. She loved San Diego and she came here frequently from Phoenix

and her last word about San Diego was, mom, I'm going to move there. She didn't know she was going to be killed here. And so I have so many memories of her coming to San Diego. I have a lot of things hanging in my house and cups and stuff because she loved San Diego. She was a lovely mother. She was beautiful inside out. She was beautiful. And she was a single mom, unsuspecting of this man. She was a property manager, and this man came by to

get an apartment and that's how they met he came across as a doting dad and that's one thing she said was he loves his son he absolutely loves his son and that was a quality that every single mom out there will look for is a man who loves his child. You are hearing Crystal's mother who is left with nothing but memories of her. And now this perp says it was sex gone wrong. Have you ever heard anything more disrespectful to a crime victim than it was sex gone wrong? Can I tell you something about Crystal's mother, Josephine? She devotes her life trying to track this perp down all around the world, trying to find him. With me right now is Crystal's mother, Josephine Wentzel, former police detective and now author of two books, one of them, The Chase and Hot Pursuit of My Daughter's Killer

and The Capture, Six Year Hot Pursuit Ends. Six years she chased him only for him to land in court and claim it was sex gone wrong. I've never heard anything so repulsive and disrespectful in my life. Josephine also in her grief created angelsofjustice.org to help other people. That's who she is. Josephine, I'm going to backtrack through finding this guy, tracking him down. But what is happening right now? When did you first hear the words sex gone wrong? Actually, when the prosecutor had warned me about it and said that was going to be their defense, and I wasn't exactly sure how it was going to come out in court. And so really,

that's when I've heard it was when we went to court last week. Also joining me, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, star of a hit series, Zone 7. I haven't heard this is a legitimate, well, it's not legitimate, but advanced as if it were a legitimate defense since Robert Chambers, the so-called preppy killer. Do you remember that case where he raped and murdered a girl and actually argued it was her fault that she wanted, quote, rough sex? Do you recall that? Oh, absolutely. So he cannot explain the level of injury to that victim. He cannot explain the rape. So he has to say, well, yeah, I had sex with her. That's why the evidence was there. And she wanted it rough.

That's why there's injury to her throat. That's what he claimed happened in a public park. Now, we always say the preppy killer, Robert Chambers, the victim's name was Jennifer Levin. I'm curious because won't you agree with me, Cheryl, that we always talk about him, Robert Chambers. Nobody even remembers the victim's name. We do that. But I also think it's important to repeat his name so that other people are aware of this person so they also know to come forward. Perhaps they were a victim as well. So again, in this case, I think it's important to keep naming him, keep showing his photograph. Everything was right about him.

He was stable. He was a U.S. Marine. Crystal's sister is a U.S. Marine. There was nothing to alert her that he was a terrible person. And so when she came out here, and I remember that night when I got that phone call, I mean, this is, you know, I've been on the side where I had to give the message to parents. Sometimes I didn't want to give the message that their child has been murdered, and I'm on this side. And I received that message that night. Josephine, when did you learn that something horrible had happened? It was that

day when I woke up that morning and I knew that something felt wrong and I wasn't sure what it was. And when I tried to reach her, you know, because her kids were with me, she wasn't responding at all. And that's when I started feeling like something was wrong, because there's no way she wouldn't have responded, especially with her kids being here. She would be always checking in on them. So I knew that something was wrong. And we had gotten the phone call that evening when my husband kept trying to reach her, texting her, telling her, call your mom, she's freaking out here, she's not hearing from you. And that's when the phone call came in from the detective

who was investigating the scene at the moment. And then he saw the calls were coming in, so he took time off to return the call and told my husband that she was dead. So at this time, both of her children were with you, and when she did not call to check in on them, you knew something was wrong. When you got the message, what did you do? I just screamed. I covered my ears, and I don't know why I covered my ears,

but I covered my ears, and I just kept screaming and screaming and screaming and dropped to the floor and screaming. And, you know, my sister kept saying, call the ambulance because I just couldn't breathe. I was just so grieved. A mom of two beautiful children. Why did she have to die? She checked the guy out. She ran a credit report on him. She thought he could be the one. But what she didn't know was this. Mc in Riverside for strangling one of his wives. A roommate interrupted the woman being strangled. That set the scene for what would be a deadly trip to San Diego, California. This is the alleged killer who is now claiming that it was simply sex gone wrong. Like that's some kind of a defense.

Joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we are learning right now, in addition to Crystal's mother, Josephine Wenzel, who has dedicated her life to tracking this guy down all the way around the world. Cyril McCollum, founder, director, Cold Case Research Institute. Joining me now is Lauren Conlon, investigative reporter and co-host of Primetime Crime on YouTube and at PopCrime.TV. Lauren, what happened? Nancy, Crystal Mitchell and Raymond McLeod were visiting a friend of his in San Diego, California. And on the night of June 10th, 2016, they decide that they want to go out to a bar after their friends go to sleep. At the bar that night, Raymond McLeod gets into an argument with another ex-Marine at the bar, it turns out,

after allegedly the Marines saw Raymond McLeod raise a hand to Crystal. Now, at this point, the two men get into an altercation and they are all three kicked out of the bar. Crystal Mitchell and Raymond McLeod go home back to the Allied Gardens apartment complex. And there, captured on surveillance footage, is Raymond McLeod shoving Crystal Mitchell into the elevator by the throat. Now, that night, the friend of Raymond McLeod, his wife, heard Crystal yell. She heard a scream and then she heard silence. He's got hands like two Virginia hams. Can you imagine him hitting Crystal in public at a bar. If he would do that to her in public, what would he do to her behind closed doors?

Listen to what San Diego District Attorney Summer Stephan has to say. A 911 call brought police to an apartment in Allied Garden, San Diego, where Crystal's body was found. There were clear signs of a struggle, and Crystal had numerous injuries. There was blunt force trauma, including to her face and torso. McLeod had brutally strangled Crystal to death, choking the very life out of her. There were multiple fractures to her neck area. Crime Stories with Nancy grace the children were staying with us on vacation when that happened and that morning I woke up and I knew there was something wrong I felt there was something wrong and I wasn't sure what

it was and when we reached out and tried to speak with her she never responded and then it was that call that night but But I'm just appealing to the public. I mean, we have America's Best behind me. We have one of the greatest team there is. But sometimes best is not good enough. Sometimes we just need more. And I'm appealing to the public. As I was saying earlier, this guy's hands look like two Virginia hams.

Is this guy on steroids, Josephine Wenzel? Yes, he was. He was on steroids, Josephine Wenzel? Yes, he was. He was on steroids. And that night, he was wearing a lot of big rings on his fingers, according to a witness. Which would make any blow to her worse. I want to talk about his steroid use, which is obvious to everybody that sees him. Joining me, Dr. Priya Banerjee, boardee board certified forensic pathologist and atomic pathologist at anchor forensic pathology consulting Dr. Priya Banerjee thank you for being with us what are

steroids and what do they do to your body we're talking about anabolic steroids or steroids to that are abused so illegal steroids these are drugs that mimic testosterone and really give you that beefed up look that he's achieved. This is not what normal hormones do for you. So he's, you know, juicing. We've heard various lay terms for it. But what they do is they also cause rage. This is much higher levels of testosterone like hormones in the body and so that's what we see we see not only the bulked up muscles but there's many many side effects including a lot of anger you hear it called roid rage but what does it do to your internal organs like your heart i mean because we always hear of people dying at early ages bodybuilders and similar

professions they kill over what does it do to you so having this elevated testosterone it accelerates heart disease they're pumping iron so it they're pushing their body to the like extreme limits again stressing the heart they can get liver cancer and honestly there's a sort of reflexive change where your testicles shrink so oftentimes they can't get an erection or have normal sexual function because the body's saying hey I have too much of this hormone so the testicles don't't produce it is it worth it to have all that but your testicles your balls shrink they shrink and you can't get an erection but you've got some really serious biceps that's the trade-off that's the trade-off that's the medical you know your

body's trying to regulate it and your pump you're you're juicing, you're pumping it full of hormones. Nobody sees a problem with that but me. Am I the crazy one in this scenario? Because I don't think so. Hold on. Dr. Priya is a forensic pathologist. I definitely need a shrink right now. Dr. Marlena Ryba is joining us.

Clinical psychologist, research consultant at Dr. Long and Associates. Dr. Ryba, thank you for being with us. I'm hearing from Dr. Priya what overloads of synthetic testosterone does to your body, but what does it do to your psyche? And Eric Faddis, high profile defense lawyer joining me, you just pipe down because this is not a defense. Roid rage is just like voluntary use of drugs or alcohol. It's not a defense under the law. So don't tune up with me because I know where your brain is headed right now.

Dr. Marlena, explain to me what this does to your psyche. So I think there are two things to sort of keep in mind here. One is that we already know that he has sort of a pattern of behavior that would already put him at risk. So, you know, we have these history of alcohol use. Did you say put him at risk? Why is he at risk? He's gobbling steroids on his own. I'm not making him do that. It's Crystal and her children that are at risk. Oh, absolutely. I know you're absolutely correct. I mean, in terms of at risk, in terms of being

more of a threat is what I mean. Right? So he's already got these risk factors of, you know, there's alcohol involved. He's already demonstrated poor impulse control. So if you take these things aside from just using the steroids, that's already kind of putting him in a position where he would be more of a danger to his partners and probably alcohol plus steroids hold on just a moment I haven't thought of that toxic cocktail Dr. Marlena Ryba to Dr. Priya Banerjee in a nutshell what does that mean when you are ingesting oh dear gravy are you showing that just to incite me oh with the big cigar and the gun and the muscles you know dr priya what happens when you mix alcohol and steroids anything well we know alcohol lowers inhibitions right and he is a raging maniac

basically right so you have these hormones that are raging. He has poor impulse control. Now the alcohol just basically opens the lid to being completely uncontrolled. And that's why he acts out so horribly. And again, as the psychologist said, he's already there. Right. He's abused many women in the past. And thank God. You know what? I want to follow up on what you're saying to Josephine Wenzel. This is Crystal's mom.

Josephine, prior violence against two previous wives and your daughter, this fantastic mom, working hard at the apartment complex, raising her children. Absolutely stunning. She looks like a cover girl for Pete's sake. How is she supposed to know? He has prior violence claims against two previous wives, a pending felony for strangling one of the wives. And long story short, she runs him. She doesn't see any of that on his record. No idea he's doing steroids. No idea at all. It's like leading the lamb to the slaughter. Yes. And she was also running from somebody who was stalking her, an ex that she broke up with like six months prior

that was stalking her. So he chased her right into the lion. You know what's upsetting? Cheryl McCollum, when I look at Crystal, it reminds me the same thing I saw over and over when prosecuting cases and investigating them. There's a picture of her when she's just a little bitty girl. Cheryl, why is it that these people in life that are so pure of heart and innocent, they are mistreated so badly? Do you ever wonder, Cheryl, when we're out working a case at four o'clock in the morning, why is it that it seems to always be the good people, the pure people, the innocent people that get tortured and crapped on by predators like McLeod? And I think that's the word, predator.

Because again, Nancy, here's something that bothered me when I first heard it. The blood trail that goes from the apartment to the elevator, that is proof positive that he never even rendered aid. He left so quickly. He didn't even clean up. He left dripping her blood off of him to escape. And this is somebody he supposedly cared about. He's believed to be on the run in Central America or Mexico. His last reported location was in Guatemala about a year ago, but he has also been spotted in Belize and in Mexico. McLeod has been able to hide until now, but we're not going to let this coward run from justice and get away with murder.

Make no mistake, we are on a hunt for justice and we need your help. You are hearing the San Diego District Attorney speaking that summer, Stephan. The search for this guy, McLeod, took years. And now he's sitting in a courtroom facing Lady Justice. His defense, oh, she wanted it. It was rough sex gone wrong. That's the defense. Joining me in All-Star panel, including Crystal's mother. Right now, she's raising Crystal's two children. She comes out of retirement, former LA law enforcement, and devotes her life to tracking down Crystal's killer. To Josephine Wenzel, when did you learn that McLeod, the man you believe murdered your daughter, had gone on the run? It was a couple of days after he ran. Did you have any idea where he may have gone?

All I was told was he went to Mexico, and I thought that's where he was hanging out at was Mexico. And I had no clue from there until, you know, the marshals got a call that he was spotted going into Belize and that's when, you know, the chase was on. The chase was on. You come out of retirement and devote yourself to tracking down the man you believe murdered your daughter, Crystal. Joining me right now is a special guest, Irv Brandt, former senior inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations. Irv Brandt.

Irv, the years devoted to finding this guy were agonizing. Could you explain how this is done, how he was finally tracked down? Yes, Nancy, I can. The U.S. Marshal Service said it when they put out the announcement that it was due to Ms. Wetzel's unrelenting search and her use of social media. And it shows, especially south of the border, just south of the border, when fugitives flee from the United States, usually into Mexico, then start making their way down into Central America. They tend to gravitate to the expats, the U.S. citizens that are living south of the border. And that's where they start making their contacts and their friends.

And they move from town to town, country to country, and then pick up jobs using their contacts with American citizens. Whereas the fugitive was found teaching English, which is common for U.S. citizens, native speakers of English, to teach that in foreign countries. And it was through those contacts and those people and the flyers and the things that Ms. Witzel put out that he was spotted that ultimately led to the apprehension. And it was just excellent work by her. How do you become one of the top 15 most wanted fugitives, Irv Brandt? How do you get that distinction?

The U.S. Marshal Service has like the FBI's 10 most wanted. They have their 15 most wanted. And they consider a lot of factors before putting someone on that most wanted. And it has to do a lot with the crime that that person committed, who that person is, where they fled to, they're dangerous, how they're deemed dangerous to society in general. And I can tell you that the U.S. Marshal Service thought this man was a danger to society as a whole. I am looking, Irv, and maybe you can shed some light on this. The U.S. Marshal's top 15 most wanted a $50,000 reward for this guy, and they give caution in big red letters, armed and dangerous. McLeod wanted in connection with

the death of Crystal Mitchell. He is an avid bodybuilder and a heavy drinker. History, domestic violence. Fled California after the murder of Crystal, believed to have fled to Mexico. U.S. Marshals obtained a federal UFAP warrant for McLeod. Josephine, where was he finally found? He was finally found in El Salvador, in a small town in El Salvador, teaching in that classroom, you see, looking just like that. Boy, his appearance sure has changed, right? Totally. You know, Nancy, I couldn't even recognize him in court.

There was another witness that came forward and he couldn't recognize him in court. So after all of this, one of the top 15 most wanted fugitives, Raymond R.J. McLeod, found teaching school in El Salvador. Josephine, what gave him away? Well, it was his one of my ads that I put out there and someone saw that and spotted him and called it in. Lauren Conlon, co-host of Primetime Crime on YouTube. How was he arrested? Nancy, after a woman saw him at a club

and claimed that he was very creepy looking, she called the tip in and then the U.S. found him in El Salvador where he was residing. Oh, okay. Hold on. You're giving me a flashback to Brian Koberger because women at bars report him as, being creepy. And when you get the idea someone is creepy, Cheryl McCollum, it's not just a hunch. It's coming from somewhere. These women spot McLeod, known as R.J. McLeod, when he was arrested in El Salvador. He was going by Jack from Canada. But when the women in the bars and restaurants said Koberger was, quote, creepy and got away from him. Same thing here. And they were right.

This guy has already strangled one wife. He has domestic violence claims against him and was just wandering loose. He should have been behind bars when he collides with Crystal. The women were right. Their hunch, if you want to call it that, was right, Cheryl. Well, we all have a sixth sense, Nancy. It's important to listen to it. If the hair stands up on the back of your neck or somebody just gives you a weird feeling, if something is off, you've got to listen to that. Here, it was clear that there's a pattern with him. More than one person got that feeling.

These folks, these predators cannot hide who they are. Josephine Wentzel, how did you learn that he had been apprehended? Well, I had gotten a phone call prior to his apprehension from the marshals stating that he was spotted and so I was just waiting on pins and needles for them to get to that location hoping he doesn't run away and then I got that phone call that okay we're here and we're going in and you know they went in and got him but you know you know, here's the interesting thing. He wasn't arrested by the marshals at the scene. He was arrested by the El Salvadoran police

who threw him out of the country. He didn't want to be extradited. He had no choice. Investigators piecing together events that led to the murder of Crystal Mitchell uncover a troubling relationship with her boyfriend. What dark secrets did he hide? There is a very real concern that McLeod's history of violence will continue to escalate and he will strike again while he's on the run, most likely against an unsuspecting woman. The murder victim in this heartbreaking case, Crystal Mitchell, left behind two young children, a loving mother, a brother and a heartbroken family and friends.

Will there be justice for Crystal and the two little children that she has left behind? Josephine Wenzel, Crystal's mother and founder of angelsofjustice.org, comes out of retirement to help search the world to find Crystal's killer. Josephine Wenzel, what exactly is happening in court right now? Well, we just went through a preliminary hearing. It took over two years for a preliminary hearing. This was a 10th attempt and it finally stuck. And we went to court and he tried to claim accidental death and he wanted to plead guilty to manslaughter. Accidental death.

I was appalled and so was he. Accidental death. Josephine, how is this an accidental death? I guess he's an accident that happened to himself. So that to me. What is his an accidental death? I guess he's an accident that happened himself. So that, to me, that concludes that. What is his claim, though? How is he possibly claiming her murder is an accident? There's a trail of blood, literally a trail of blood, leaving the apartment to the elevator.

He has a lot of money, and he's been bailed out of many troubled situations similar to abuses and stuff. So he just thought he'd get away with this one and get away with using his money, hiring attorneys and saying accidental death. To Cheryl McCollum joining us, forensics expert. Cheryl, how is he claiming this murder is an accident? How is that happening? It's not going to work. An accident is not going to explain how her throat was broken in three places, how she's got a contusion on her face, how there's blunt force trauma, how he never rendered aid, how he left the trail of blood, and why he would go into hiding for six years. That is not an accident. There's no way there's zero chance that any evidence is going to even suggest something that ludicrous. Joining me is high profile lawyer, Eric Faddis, trial lawyer, TV analyst, founding partner of Varner Faddis Elite Legal. Eric Faddis, it's very difficult to determine which way the defense

is going to go. We're getting an idea from the preliminary hearing based on the questions that they asked at the preliminary hearing. But this is headed to trial. And I see several avenues the defense will explore. Number one, they're going to claim an accident. How are they going to claim an accident? They are going to try and say that during consensual, quote, rough sex, Crystal was killed. You heard what was done to her body. There's no way a jury is going to believe all that was an accident. Then he could try and claim he, his mind was clouded because he was drinking and using steroids. But the law is voluntary use with drugs or alcohol is not a defense. So what's he going

to argue? This guy weighs about 280 pounds. He stands 5'11". He's a bodybuilder. He's high on steroids. How is he going to claim what self-defense against this petite little girl? You know, Nancy, a horrendous set of circumstances. My condolences to Ms. Wenzel. I think the defense, like you said, is going to explore a couple avenues. One is that this was an accidental death, just a tragic state of affairs that played out and it was not intended. In fact, the preliminary hearing called Dr. Drew Pinsky to say that, hey, choking during sex is a common, more common than people think. And oftentimes the risks are not fully appreciated by the participants. Secondly, they're going to say that he was engaging in voluntary intoxication that prohibited his ability to form an intent to kill. The alcohol

and the steroids clouded things so much that he could not form this intent to kill, which is necessary to convict him of the higher murder charge. Are you serious? Is this a joke? I mean, are you just saying this because you don't know what else to say? That's the claim that his defense is bringing, and I'm just sort of trying to articulate that for your viewers. So then, yes. Okay, so let me understand this. The claim is going to be Eric Faddis, who has won a lot of cases in court, by the way, and here we see what's going to happen. He's going to claim that three fractures to her voice box. That's why the roommates didn't hear anything but one short scream because he took those two Virginia hams that he calls hams and fractured her voice box in three places. That's why she didn't scream anymore. When he, she screamed,

he destroyed her voice box. Well, I think that's, oh, go ahead. No, I can't wait to hear what you're going to say, Faddis. Well, just a little wrinkle in the case is that, you know, it looks like the aggression, according to the prosecution, was started at the elevator and then went into the apartment. And so there's at least an argument that there was no damage to the voice box at that point. And had this been non-consensual, defense is going to say the tenants would have heard screams. They did hear a scream. Is that messing up your scenario? Well, it's not my scenario. That little revisionist history you're trying?

Okay, hold on. Then you're claiming that, okay, You're claiming it was an accident. That would be your argument. But then how does that jive with his history of domestic abuse? When the state begins calling similar transactions, including the previous wife, I think it was wife number two, because by the way, ladies, he was still married when he met Crystal. She didn't know that. Still married to wife number three.

Listen, one divorce. Hey, that could be anybody's fault. When you're on your second and third divorce, it's you. Okay. With the exception of Elizabeth Taylor, of course, but it's you. Think about Drew Peterson, the cop turned killer. He was on wife, what, four or five? Cheryl McCollum. Let's see. He killed Kathleen Savio. That was wife number three. He beat her brutally. She was found in a dry bath, a bone dry bath tub. But

people claim that she fell in the shower and died. Okay. Then there's Stacey Peterson, his fourth wife. Okay, when you're on wife number four and they're dropping like flies, it's not them. It's you, right? Can anybody disagree with that except Faddis? You can look at that night and see the things that were not consensual.

He slapped her, not consensual. He got into a physical fight with another man, not consensual. He shoved her in the elevator, not consensual, He got into a physical fight with another man, not consensual. He shoved her in the elevator, not consensual, and he murdered her. Will there be justice for Crystal? Will her two children grow up knowing that the justice system worked? I wonder, because if it had not been for Crystal's mother, Josephine Wenzel, RJ McLeod would never have been found. Josephine, we were speaking of similar transactions. In this case, you know what

happened in the preliminary hearing. You know, the defense is going to try and blame Crystal, your daughter now dead, claiming she wanted rough sex. For most people, I would dial back because I would be afraid of hurting the mom's feelings. Your former law enforcement, you've been knee deep, ankle deep, excuse me, you've been knee deep, waist deep, elbow deep in the search for McLeod and you helped find him. Yes, they're going to drag your daughter through the mud. Speaking of similar transactions, Josephine, isn't it true that according to the neighbor of a Mayan woman he was dating in Livingston, Guatemala, he would beat her routinely? They could hear her screaming. Isn't that true, Josephine? Yes, I was told that

she was beaten so badly is how the woman described it. She just said so. The neighbors say they don't even know how the woman lived. So if this guy walks, there will be another victim. Josephine, your story is so incredible. What you tipsters and whatnot. It was really hard. It was very difficult. I was in the middle of grieving and raising two small children and trying to be that wife and trying to be that mother to my other grieving children. It was a very, very difficult time. And to have been putting all my time and effort into this, to come to court and listen to people say that this was accidental, it just kills me inside. But, you know, I have faith that the truth will come out and justice will be served. And, you know, Nancy, I just want to point out, my daughter is so OCD. You see all her pictures.

Do you see any bruising on her? Do you see any kind of marks on her neck, her body or anything? She is not into that sick accusation that they're making about her. This girl wouldn't even go out in public with a pimple on her face, let alone strangling marks and bruises and stuff. absolutely insane. She trusted. That was her problem was she trusted this man. That was what happened to her, what killed her, was she trusted him. Josephine, I'm just so worried, Josephine, because this guy has managed to con woman after woman after woman. And if the state fails and doesn't get the right evidence in, he could walk again. He could walk again. And when I think, when I look at her photos, and I think that he so brazenly just left a trail of this beautiful girl's blood then takes the car she rented and dumps it leaving her body for other people to find mangled and bloody I just pray I pray for

justice not just for her Josephine not for you and your husband, but for her children, because I don't want them growing up thinking nobody fought for my mom. Nobody got justice. We wait as justice unfolds for Crystal. And now we stop to remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaze Jr., Russ County Sheriff's Wisconsin, shot and killed in the line of duty. Glaze survived by a grieving wife, now widow, his high school sweetheart, Sarah, and their children, Kendall, Levi, and Eliana, just five months old when she lost her dad. American hero, Deputy Sheriff Dan Glaze, Jr. End of watch.

Thank you so much for our panel being with us tonight, especially Josephine. But also thank you to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.