Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BREAKING: LITTLE CHARLOTTE, 9, MISSING FROM BIKE RIDE FOUND ALIVE

Episode Date: October 3, 2023

Charlotte Sena, 9, has been found alive. The break in the case came early yesterday morning when a car stopped at the mailbox at the Sena family home, leaving what was discovered to be a ransom note. Prints taken from the note were matched to Craig N. Ross, 46 who had been arrested in a 1999 DUI case. Ross is now charged with first-degree kidnapping.   Police found the 4th grader in a cupboard in Ross’s camper parked behind his mother's home.     Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Francey Hakes - Former Federal Prosecutor, First-ever National Coordinator for Child Exploitation Scott A. Johnson - Forensic Psychologist (32 years specializing in addressing sexual predators)  Robert Crispin – Private Investigator, Former Federal Task Force Officer for United States Department of Justice, DEA and Miami Field Division; Former Homicide and Crimes Against Children Investigator; Facebook: Crispin Special Investigations, Inc. CrispinInvestigations.com, Facebook: Crispin Special Investigations, Inc. Dr. Trace Sargent- Search, Rescue & Recovery Expert, (Ph.D. in Psychology with a focus on victimology - criminal profiling - predator behaviors - crime scene analysis); Podcast: "The Seeker’s Quest;" Facebook: The Seeker’s Quest  Christopher Eberhart - Fox News Digital Crime Reporter; Twitter: @ChrisEberhart48  Alexis Tereszcuk – CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker at Lead Stories; Twitter: @swimmie2009   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A miracle, a miracle. Nine-year-old Charlotte, Charlotte Senna, has been found alive. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Actually, that's the story. Charlotte is alive. But who, what, where, why, when? Take a listen to this. Just an incredible end to this two-day long search. It was about 6 45 eastern when we started to notice state police troopers leaving here where they have been searching with their lights going peeling out of here and then we got confirmation from the New York State Police that nine-year-old Charlotte Sena has been found alive.

They do have a suspect in custody. The case started to break at 4.20 a.m. this morning. When the family's home that was being guarded by state police, when the parents were still starting another day at the campsite where they last seen their daughter. 4.20 a.m., a car pulls up to a mailbox. Something is left. State police immediately go to the mailbox and identify what is a ransom note that he left behind for Charlotte. You are hearing not only our friends at NBC, but a presser regarding the discovery

of this nine-year-old little girl found in a cabinet, in a camper, inhabited by the kidnapper. Again, thank you for being with us. Without any further ado, let me go straight to the scene. Joining me right now, Chris Eberhardt, joining us from Fox News Digital. Chris, thank you for being with us. What happened? Tell me everything. So, question, the police were staking out Charlotte's home while her parents were still at the campout scene.

And that is when they did they observe someone come and put something in the mailbox? What happened? I'm not 100 percent sure if it was the police that saw it or the neighbors that saw it. I got conflicting messages from the residents. But, yeah, apparently this guy put this ransom note in the mailbox and they were able to use fingerprints and they head back to a late 90s DUI. And that's how they were able to identify him. About 4.20 in the morning, he dropped that off. 4.20 a.m. in the morning.

And that's just the beginning of the search that led to Charlotte Alive. Listen. State police worked diligently trying to find a match for a fingerprint. First one tried and wasn't successful. Second one was to identify any other prints in the New York State database that would be a match. The hit came at 2.30 in the afternoon. There had been a DWI in 1999 in the city of Saratoga. A fingerprint was found that matched what was found on the ransom note.

So, a little more research, work work to identify the location and identifying the fact that there's a home they could visit. They found a double-wide house with a woman, the suspect's mother. The suspect lived in the camper behind. What we're learning, this nine-year-old little girl was found hidden in a cabinet in a camper van owned by the kidnapper. His name, Craig Ross Jr., age 47. We believe he left a ransom note in the parents' mailbox. What does that mean? Had he been staking them out? Had he been stalking this little girl? Or did he just see her at the campsite and get the home address out of her? That triggered a SWAT helicopter rescue. Before I go to an all-star panel, I'm going to go back to Chris Eberhardt,

joining us from Fox News Digital. Tell me about the rescue, Chris. It was pretty wild. I talked to a resident. The street that he's actually on is called Barrett Road. That was pretty wild. I talked to a resident. So the street that he's actually on, it's called Barrett Road. That was blocked off. But right outside of there, there was a few homes. And I talked to one of the residents and they started noticing cops just kind of idling a couple blocks over from their house. And it was like two or three. And then all of a sudden an ambulance started coming up. Then they saw the chopper. And then all of a sudden, a whole bunch of law enforcement vehicles started rolling through their neighborhood. And at that point, they didn't even have to check the news. They knew that, you know, Charlotte had to be close by. And this was all connected to that.

Okay, hold on, Chris Eberhardt. You're giving me a lot of information at once. Slowly, tell me again what you know about the rescue. What time did the rescue go down? The rescue went down sometime in the evening, around maybe six, seven o'clock. So it sounds like a convergence of SWAT, police cars, overhead, helicopters. Tell me again, really slowly. And you're learning this from neighbors.

Yes. There was, there's a, there was a couple of neighbors that were in the area that spoke to me real late last night. And they said that they started slowly seeing a larger and larger police presence uh there was a couple idling cops in the area not really doing much they thought it was out of the norm but they didn't really think much of it um then an ambulance came by um really around the same area then uh later that evening uh that's when they they don't remember exactly what time but there was a lot of

law enforcement vehicles roaming through the area which is unlike that spot. Joining me right now former Federal Task Force Officer for the U.S. DOJ formerly with the DEA and the Miami Field Division now owner

and operator of Crispin Special Investigations at CrispinInvestigations.com. Focus on former federal task force officer Robert Crispin. How did this thing, I know you heard everything that Christopher Eberhardt just said. Interpret it for me. Decipher what the police were doing. Did you hear the neighbors say it started out very quietly with cops blocking off either end of the street and slowly, slowly, very quietly in the dark of the evening, gathering forces, and then bam, all of a sudden,

there's a helicopter overhead, there's SWAT, there's crazy, chaotic, shambolic proceedings going down. Explain, what were they doing? So, Nancy, the note was the beginning of the end to rescue this girl. And it's super glue to the rescue. And what do I mean by that? Because that note was put into a fish tank type environment in a lab. Slow down.

Hold on. The note, the ransom note that we believe the perp left in the family's mailbox. This is important. Remember, the girl is swiped, kidnapped from a campground, and then the note isn't taken to the parent's car back to the campground where we think they are waiting, but to their home. So he finds out the home address or had he been stalking the little girl for some time? Okay, so he goes to the home in the early morning hours. We think, I think Chris Eberhardt said around 4.20 a.m.

Right or wrong, Chris Eberhardt? Correct. And leaves it in their mailbox. Go ahead. You said something about a fish tank. Pick it up right there. So in a lab, especially when you have ransom notes, you have notes that people leave when they're robbing a bank. You can take that note, which is paper, and you can put it into a fish tank type environment in the lab. And then good old superglue, the vapors,

as they start to evaporate, will circle through the tank. And those will actually start to react and attach to high resolution photographs of that fingerprint and compare it in a system called APHIS. APHIS is a nationally recognized and a national database of everyone's fingerprints that's been arrested. And this is how this systematically started to break down and they were able to get a hit from the 1999 DUI. Once they had that, once they knew who it was, then they started going into locating where does that person live. Immediately, and I'm telling you, Nancy, from doing these types of cases, within 30 minutes, that house was surrounded by undercovers initiating surveillance. And then the rest systematically started to come together as they put a rescue team together.

Now, we don't know what they saw when they were doing undercover surveillance there, but I guarantee you there was an undercover surveillance team at that location once they identified and had their man. Okay, so it goes from getting the ransom note, putting the note, as you say, and you know everybody's wearing gloves and picking it up with tweezers. That's real. What you see on TV and in movies, that's real. You pick it up with tweezers because even with a glove on, you could smear a print. You don't want that. You don't want to get your print on it so you wear gloves, but you don't want to smear the print that's already on it if the perp didn't think to wear

gloves. So you pick it up with tweezers and you put it, as you hear Christmas say, into a fish tank environment. Now, what I've seen is it is glass, so the scientists can see what's happening but they put a top on let's just call it the fish tank so those fumes don't go out into the room you need to keep it in the tank so it will begin circulating as you see let's just say smoke from a fire or a cigarette begins to circulate in the room it does that and right there right there Robertin, the fumes from the super glue, the chemical in those fumes attach to what? It attaches to the moisture in the organic compounds of a fingerprint residue. So they attach immediately to the oils, as he's saying,

the organic compounds. No matter how dry you think your hands are, the oil in your hands leave a fingerprint. That's what leaves the fingerprint. It attaches to that. I don't know why. I'm not a scientist, but I know what happens. Then once it attaches, then what happens, Crispin? Then there's high resolution photographs that can take a picture of that print and that can get inputted into APHIS, which is the biometric database in the world containing fingerprints from all kinds of criminal histories of everybody in the U.S. Almost like a DNA database. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Chris Eberhardt joining us, Fox News Digital, along with Alexis Torres,

at CrimeOnline.com. The first time they tried to get a match, it didn't work. What happened, Chris Eberhardt? The first time they couldn't get a match, that I'm not 100% sure of. I'm sorry about that. All I can know is that they got the DUI from the 1999 one. It's okay because the reality is they did get a match. And there's a lot of explanations why they may not have gotten a match the first time.

And it doesn't matter. Give me an example, Robert Crispin. You cannot get a match the first time and it doesn't matter give me an example robert crispin there you cannot get a match the first time that's no big deal because they got it the second time so listen so we don't know how many people touched this note before it got to the lab so they may have they may have tried to do a print comparison with two different prints that were on the note one being the neighbor or the cop who handed the note to the technician because he wasn't wearing gloves. And now we have to do his fingerprints to do a comparison to discount him.

There's a million reasons. But the reality is they got the print and they were right because that's where Charlotte was. So the fingerprint match was dead on 100% correct. Listen to this. They have what they call a dynamic entry, a tactical maneuver, and within the camper, they located the suspect. After some resistance, the suspect was taken into custody and immediately the little girl was found in a cabinet cupboard.

She was rescued and she knew she was being rescued. She knew that she was in safe hands. Her parents were immediately notified. This occurred at 6.32 this evening. The suspect, 47-year-old male named Craig Nelson Ross Jr., is still being questioned. You are hearing more of that press conference where we're learning a lot of information and you can hear Hutschel speaking very methodically

and very slowly. What can I say? What should I say? What should I not reveal at this juncture? She's being really, really careful and she should be. Dynamic entry. Does that mean basically Chris Eberhardt, Fox News Digital,

they tore the door down? Dynamic entry, that sounds like airbrushing. They tore the place up? Yeah, that's what I'm hearing is that it was a forced entry. They got in there pretty good. What is it, Crispin? The element of surprise was on law enforcement's side. And it was a dynamic entry with probably some flashbangs to stun the suspect,

give them the opportunity to get in, get him into custody before he could go for a weapon because his world was coming to an end as soon as they came through that door. Man, you're not kidding. And it should. Right now, we believe there is a charge of kidnapping that can be amended to add other charges. We're waiting to find out about that. But hey, Robert Crispin, not everybody lives in our world.

What do you mean by flashbang? So flashbangs are a percussion device that are thrown into a building and it's a very loud explosion. A hundred M80 fireworks going off and it literally, the flash and the sound stuns you and you just freeze. That gives law enforcement the edge of the element of surprise to take you down. To Francie Hakes joining me, former federal prosecutor, first ever national coordinator for child exploitation. You can find her at FrancieHakes.com.

Francie, long time, no here, but we need you now. Weigh in, Francie. Well, Nancy, this is such an incredible relief, and it really illustrates the power of law enforcement when everyone, federal, state, and local, are all working together to find one little nine-year-old girl. That is the very best that this country has to offer. When a nine-year-old girl goes missing, everyone moves heaven and earth to find her. And they did find her. And, Nancy, as you know, as a former prosecutor just like me, we don't like to say cases are slam dunks. We never like to say that because there's almost never really a slam dunk.

But that little girl was found in his house where he was. This is a slam dunk case, and I'm relieved to see it. To Trace Sargent joining us, search and rescue recovery expert, PhD psychology, focusing on criminal profiling. I couldn't help but wonder about putting the little girl, little Charlotte, in a cabinet. You know, she didn't go there on her own. Yes, Nancy. In this regard, when we talk about a situation like this, any situation where someone disappears, particularly if they're females, we look at the victimology of that individual. Her being a nine-year-old female alone put her at the highest

risk of victimology. And in that situation, he saw a crime of opportunity, so to speak. We don't know for sure if he was stalking her, her family, if he knew her and her family. But the essence is he saw an opportunity. He took advantage of it. He also understands that he is committing a crime, a very serious crime, and he doesn't want to get caught. So how does he prevent from getting caught? He hides the evidence, so to speak. In this case, it is the little girl, Charlotte, and hiding her in the cabinet, either from his mother or from others, or even keeping her in a contained environment

where she can't escape. Maybe she tried to get away. We don't know. So that provides a lot of situations, goals and objectives for him to hide her, to contain her, and to keep from his crimes being found. Now, very curious. We know that there's a kidnapping charge right now. We don't know if other charges are going to be added. I also have been told that the parents do not want her health information to be released. What does that mean? It could be a lot. I want to go back very quickly. Scott A. Johnson joining me, forensic psychologist, 32 years specializing in addressing predators just like this at ForensicConsultation.org. Scott Johnson, thank you for being with us. Quick question to Alexis Teresh at CrimeOnline.com before I go to Scott. Alexis, do we know whether Charlotte was clothed or unclothed

at the time she was rescued? The police have not said what she was wearing when she was rescued. They have only said she was locked in a cabinet. And she's a tall girl. She's five feet tall. She's only nine years old, but she's five feet tall. She weighs 90 pounds, which is nothing at all, but she is tall. So imagine this tall girl stuck inside a cabinet in a trailer, which cannot possibly have something too big. But this was only, I want to point out, this was less than 20 miles away from where she was taken. In Monroe Lake State Park, Milton is only 17 miles south of there. So he did not take her very far. So it was not far for him to go up there to capture her and snatch her away from her family. It's like a local park for him. That's a really good point, Alexis Tereshchuk. Chris Eberhardt, Fox News Digital, 20 miles from Moreau State Park. But how far was his camper that he's got parked in the back of his mom's place?

How far was it from the family home? Between 10 and 15 miles. It was close. And actually, I think from what I've seen and heard before, I think I've seen him before in the neighborhood or something. So there was a little bit of familiarity. Wow. That's the first I'm hearing that.

Okay. Tell me what you know about that. And we understand that this may change. It may not be correct right now. I know that you're getting information from neighbors and relatives and your ends at the police force. I get it but are you telling me that she thought there's a chance that she thought she recognized him from her neighborhood right and i'm glad you um you clarified that again this is nothing official from police or anything like that but uh there

was some talk that she has seen him before um but again that's unconfirmed from anybody else but it would be interesting because when you go um that area where she was from loop a in that park it's very close to the street um and that it's only separated by uh a very small amount of grass and then a fence that you can literally just step over so the curious thing is if she did know him maybe she went over closer to the fence where it was easier for him to get or did he jump over the fence that we don't know but again that was the theory that some of the residents were were pointing out and especially given the close proximity loop a close to the street just separated by grass and like what a chain link fence it's not even a chain link fence it's hard to describe it hard to describe. It's like a rusted, very brittle, like metal type fence.

And I mean, if I wanted to, I could just step on it and it would just crush underneath me. So how tall is the fence? It took me maybe about 15 steps from the road to get to that fence. How tall is the fence? It came up to right about my chest, a little lower than my chest. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.

I'm trying to figure out, Scott A. Johnson, joining me, forensic psychologist, how close the defendant lived to her, and I'm understanding that was about 10 miles. And Jackie's showing me a note that the home was about 30 minutes to the campsite. Is that what you're saying? So now that we hear from Chris Eberhardt unconfirmed reports, she may have seen this guy in the neighborhood, not to know him, but to see him like I would know the grocery store checkout guy or woman. I would know them because I see them all the time. That doesn't mean I know a lot about them. I might remember their name from their tag on their shirt, but that type of familiarity, that may play into this, and it's very hard for me to

believe, and anybody on the panel, jump in. It's very hard for me to believe that he lived, the defendant lived 15, 10, 15 minutes away from her home, and he had never seen her before. That he just happened, like a needle in a haystack, this happened to be the same girl he kidnaps at a campsite. No. Correct. He likely has seen her in the neighborhood, and the opportunity presented itself where he could abduct her,

but this was something in the making. He likely already had planned to take her he likely already knew where he would take her um and so when we catch these people there's usually that element of you know the planning that comes out you know that this wasn't just a happenstance victim this was someone that they had seen in the community and had already developed sexual fantasies for and or the possibility for ransom. Guys, I'm just very curious. Scott Johnson joining me, forensic psychologist.

This is rare for us that we actually get a stranger on stranger child kidnapping resolved with the child alive. Alive. And I've been besieged with questions. Was she raped? Was she attacked? I don't know the answer to that. But I know this. She survived.

She survived. That hardly ever happens with stranger on stranger child kidnappings. Scott Johnson, I'd like to get in, if you can, the mind of the perp that would take a child with no thought to what it's going to do to the family or the child and end up forcing her into a cabinet. And this guy, I mean, it's the proverbial guy in his mom's basement. This is a guy living in a camper in his 40s, 46 years old, in the back of mommy's yard. Right.

And so you have someone here who's, if you will, psychologically regressed. He's not mature enough to meet people his own age. He's fantasizing about younger people who he can more easily control, subdue, without having to invest a lot of, for example, relational communication skills. And so to abduct her means he's got his wishes fulfilled as far as, you know, he may not be a child specifically focused on that age of a victim but this happened to be the victim that he found but someone that he could easily control subdue and then perhaps the secondary game here of of trying to get some money which obviously money was an issue for him living in a

trailer on his mommy's lot but someone who's very psychologically regressed. And unfortunately, the things that they could do to their victim in their own head are, you know, kind of get horrendous. Guys, you are hearing Scott A. Johnson. What more do we know about this guy, Chris Eberhardt? Does he have a job? Did he work? Did he function normally?

At first, it came out that he was a sex offender. That's not true. That must have been a different Craig Ross. This guy does have a record. Thank heaven. Or we may not have had his fingerprint. So there's a lot swirling right now. And we don't know the truth of any of it.

All we really know is she's alive. And it was in his camper behind his mom's place, which leads me to another question. Mommy didn't know there was a little girl in the backyard being held in a camper? So that's a good question, but what more do we know about this guy

Chris Eberhardt or Alexis Tereschuk? Anybody jump in. That's exactly what I'm doing today. I'm actually up here right now. While I'm talking to you, I'm driving over to the house right now. It was all blocked off last night. They had a cop lock in that entrance to Barrett Road. I also do want to just let you know, Nancy, I did get a response back from police.

And they have said that authorities so far have found no connection between ross and the girl's family it doesn't mean that they haven't seen each other in the neighborhood or something like that but um as of right now the official is that there is no connection that's important hold on let me write that down it's no connection between him and family okay i get it that doesn't mean he hasn't been skulking around her neighborhood, driving around. We know he's got access to a car. And you know what? We called it yesterday. She was taken in a vehicle. Why? Because dogs did not pick up her scent. In addition to search, rescue, and recovery, Tracy Sargent also is an expert dog handler that's how I first met her

and I tried to trip her up every way to a to z with her dog could the dog find this and we did experiments I did experiments to see if I could trip her and her dog up not one worked I tried hiding drugs inside of meat I tried hiding it in different places I tried drugs in bags I tried hiding drugs inside of meat. I tried hiding it in different places. I tried drugs in bags. I tried all sorts of things. The dog never messed up and neither did Tracy. So Tracy, what do you make of what you're just hearing? Well, Nancy, what happened with the dog situation is classic. So I have actually worked these very exact scenarios where someone disappeared.

And in fact, the runaway bride was the one that I worked that came to mind where my dog tracked her route and then it stopped. And I advised the officials that it appears that she got into a vehicle here. I don't know if it was willingly or unwillingly. So what they did with that particular resource, in this case, canine resources, which are great resources in these kinds of situations, told them a lot of things. They told them that, listen, she didn't get off of her bike to go into the woods, use the restroom, to saw a rabbit or a butterfly that that encouraged her to go into the woods to do some exploring and maybe she fell and hurt herself the dog told them what they needed to know and that was this is not a uh instant um innocent situation where this girl walked into the

woods it appears by all accounts that she is in a vehicle. And a nine-year-old, in most cases, are not going to get in the vehicle by themselves. So that increases the danger and the safety and the concern level very much in this kind of situation. So the dog was a great resource, did exactly what they needed to do, gave them the answers that the officials need to really transition instead of maybe a missing lost child to a missing endangered child. Or Charlotte being in one of the many bodies of water there at Moreau State Park. You're absolutely right. That trail just ended, which told everybody that it's in this business that she was put in a vehicle is there a connection take a listen to this was the suspect known to the family

it has not been determined that the suspect was known to the family that is what will be revealed after more extensive questioning. The vehicle registered to the suspect. The address in the database was two miles from Charlotte's home, but it is not known at this time whether he knew her or had her under surveillance for any length of time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Christopher Eberhardt, Fox News Digital.

We are hearing Hochul saying that the defendant's home registered in the, you know, DMV, Department of Motor Vehicles database, was two, one, two, two miles from Charlotte's home, not 10. Have you been saying two all along? I thought you said 10. The actual address that we're given is between 10 and 15, but that trailer is probably, it could be closer. I understand. I understand. The vehicle registered to the suspect, the address and the database was two miles from Charlotte's home. Right now, we don't know if the defendant had Charlotte or her family under surveillance. The family is saying from our sources that there

was no connection between them and the defendant what if anything more do we know about the defendant the fact that he lives in his mom's backyard in a camper uh do we know anything about him having a job to alexis or chris what about it alexis what who is this guy we do not know that he has a job yet he as you can see from his mugshot he has a beard and a mustache and unruly hair you know maybe not a job where he has to go to an office every day but i'm just speculating on that one um we have not been told anything and no co-workers have come forward and also to want to point out his mother has not been arrested yet so she may not have known what is going on she may not have seen char. So she may not have known what is going on.

She may not have seen Charlotte. She may not have heard her. She obviously didn't call the police to report anything. Because he is the only one from the property so far that has been arrested. I believe if they thought she had anything to do with it or knew about it, that she would be arrested. I agree with you, Alexis Terestrick. You know, I keep asking, what do you know about this guy? Has anybody thought to mention

he has a past arrest for aggravated harassment and criminal obstruction of breathing? Now see, I ain't never heard of that. I had to look it up. It's a New York State Penal Code law when you obstruct someone's nose or mouth. That is in his history. They are arrests.

I don't know that they're convictions, but he's arrested for those things. Okay, what about it, Chris? You know, you just kicked me off because I had not heard that one before. That was, that's what I'm working on today is just trying to piece together who he is. If he did have a job, what he was

doing, any criminal history also to try to find out if his mom was even home at the time we don't know either. Guys we're telling you what we're learning now and it can be confirmed or debunked because at the beginning

isn't this true Alexis Tereschuk it was reported everywhere that this guy was a registered sex offender with two attacks and I believe was on young boys and that turned out to be a completely different maybe same name or the same variation a variation on that name but it's not this guy but we are learning that this guy has these arrests we think what do you know originally the everybody was under the impression that it was a man who was 51 years old he had an arrest he had been arrested for sexually assaulting young boys so he was a registered sex

offender that is not so far what has been revealed about mr r Ross who has been arrested. He is 46. His arrest was for a DUI. And then you are saying that this criminal breathing. Now, the thing is, the police have not revealed that. I have not seen those. Well, I'll tell you where it's coming from. It's the Saratogan, the Saratogan, which is a news outlet. In 2017, a Craig N. Ross was arrested for obstruction. At that time, he was 40. Of Corinth was arrested April 21, charged with criminal obstruction of breathing, which is a misdemeanor. Also, a Craig N. Ross of Corinth arrested in 2016 for second degree aggravated harassment. Do those dates jive with being this guy, Chris Eberhardt? If he's 40 years old in 2017?

Yeah, the dates would jive. Like I said, that's why I'm being a little cautious on what we say about him, just because we're still piecing it together. I mean, going back to what you guys were talking about before where they originally thought it was this 51-year-old sex offender. There was a wild circulation on social media because somebody, a sex offender, was talking about the case on, I don't know, which social media platform. But that got picked up by a lot of places. I don't know if he was trolling news outlets.

I don't know what he was doing, but that's where a lot of that confusion came in. So that's why I'm being a little cautious and making sure that we piece together everything accurately. Yes, yes, absolutely. But I just want to clarify one thing with you, Chris Eberhardt, Fox News Digital, who is actually in his car right now heading toward the scene. You're telling me, and I want to clarify this in my own mind, because I'm trying to work up a scenario of what happened. You're telling me the defendant's home is about 10 miles from the victim's family home.

Is that right? That's the way that I have it. Yes, correct. Okay. All right. Hey, maybe you know more than the governor. That's absolutely possible. Guys, I want to jump forward to our cuts,

and I want to go to our cuts 28 and beyond. But first, Francie Hakes, 15 minutes. 15 minutes. And Crispin, I want you to jump in on this after Francie. She was on her bike doing one more loop around the campsite. We've been told that loop was about one third of a mile. How many times, Francie, have I gone camping, RVing with the twins? John David always wants to take his bike and he does a loop. One more loop. And usually I go out and I walk the loop while he's riding his bike.

And these are RV parks all over the country. But sometimes he would be out of my view. Sometimes he would come back around the loop behind me and pass me again. In 15 minutes, she was gone. Francie, gone. Yeah, Nancy, it's a shocking coincidence, but I wonder, it really makes me wonder whether he, whether I'm stalking the child, we'll eventually find out, because I'm sure the police are right now exploiting all the digital media, computers, laptops, iPads, phones he had at his house to see if there are photographs of

this child, for example. But he might have been just stalking the location. That kind of campsite, like you said, you and your kids, lots of people take their children there. So it looks like what we would call a target- rich environment. So I'm sure police right now are doing a forensic, sometime today we'll be doing a forensic interview of that child to find out exactly what happened, the kind of things he said, whether or not the mother was present, whether he mentioned the mother to the child. She is an incredibly valuable witness, not just what happened to her, but what she says he told her and how he took her and whether she recognized him.

But I suspect we may find out that there are images of children from that campground because I think he's probably been set up there and waiting for the opportunity to snatch a child. Okay. Robert Crispin, final thought. I just want to talk real quick. I had a, you know, I'm coming up from, you know, like the border of New York City and Winchester County. So I called up a profiler just to try to get his thoughts real quick on the whole case.

And he thought it was interesting that she was taken after her friends left. So maybe he was waiting for an opportunity. Maybe he was looking at her. And then all of a sudden, that last loop, she did by herself. The other ones were her friends. And then on that last loop, she's by herself, and that's when she was taken. That was kind of an interesting thing that I've kept in the back of my head that he told me. Chris Eberhardt, you are so right.

It's like the hyena, Robert Crispin, at the watering hole out in the Serengeti just waiting for the youngest or the slowest, the most infirm gazelle. And then when all the others leave, he attacks that one. He waits for just the right moment. It's like a jackal. Listen, the window to grab her was very small and he took it. But a collaboration between local, state and federal officials and technology today solved this case and brought this girl home to her family where she can grow up and be an amazing woman and have kids and be married and just enjoy life. A collaboration of everyone came together.

All I can say is P-T-L. Praise the Lord. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Goodbye, friend.