Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Breaking: Lucas Hernandez's step mom shot to death

Episode Date: June 8, 2018

The tragic mystery of how little Lucas Hernandez died may never be resolved after the 5-year-old's stepmom Emily Glass is found shot to death in her Wichita, Kansas, home early Friday. Nancy Grace looks at latest in the case -- including the claim by Glass's friends that the boy was killed by witches in a sacrifice. Guests include body language expert psychologist Susan Constantine, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, lawyer Ashley Willcott, CrimeOnline reporter Leigh Egan and Crime Stories co-host Alan Duke. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. today at P.I. Magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for your special discount at P.I. Magazine dot com. Subscribe today. Use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's promo code Nancy. Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Five-year-old Lucas Hernandez seemingly disappears into thin air. His dad out working with an oil rig, the stepmother, Emily Glass, with him at home. At the time, while she is taking a nap, he apparently slips out the back door. Well, that certainly raised eyebrows within the police department. In the last hours, a stunning turn of events. That stepmother, Emily Glass, who leads a private investigator after three months

to little Lucas's dead body under a bridge, has apparently been shot. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. In a bizarre turn of events, we learn that Emily Glass is found early, early in the morning in a home near Kellogg in Edgemore. This is Lucas Hernandez's so-called stepmother. Officers respond to the home around 2 a.m. to find a woman with a gunshot wound.

Wichita police on the scene right now joining me, a very dear friend of Emily Glass's. It's Shelly Eberhardt. Shelly, thank you for being with us, and I'm stunned by this turn of events. Shelly, thank you for being with us. And I'm stunned by this turn of events. Shelly, what happened? We really don't know. We just was at home.

Shani and I was at Shani's house. She's my best friend of over 30 years. And we've been on the Emily Glass case, Lucas Hernandez case since day one and had our doubts in the beginning, but after seeing more and more of the evidence and things that weren't lining up, I started our own group on Facebook and added Shani as a co-administrator. Very much our main objective was finding Lucas, of course, and also supporting Emily because a lot of her rights, her constitutional rights, were being violated. And in dealing with different things throughout the legal system the past 16 years and knowing different things. I've never heard of a person being held in jail on a child endangerment charge on a $50,000 bond or that case being publicized such as hers was. She was basically tried and convicted. Well, hold on, Shelly. I thought that she was actually

acquitted and walked free. Yeah, she did. But everybody. Oh, OK. Because when you said she was tried and convicted, I thought maybe I had my facts wrong. So she was acquitted. No, tried and convicted in the public side. Well, when you say that she was had so much, let me say, publicity. Well, but wouldn't you agree, Shelly? Everybody with me is a dear friend of the stepmother, Emily Glass, who was home alone, the only adult with Lucas Hernandez when he goes missing,

and then leads a private investigator three months later to his dead body in an obscure, obscure area under a bridge. When you say her case got so much scrutiny, I don't think it really had to do with her driving after three bowls of pot. I think the scrutiny was because Lucas at the time was still missing and everyone felt she had the maybe the missing answers to what happened to him. Tell me why you think. Do you think Emily Glass was involved in Lucas's death? No, we don't believe that she harmed Lucas. Yes, we have always felt that she had information as to what happened to him and about his disappearance, even from her first jailhouse interview, her videotape interview with KWCH Channel 12 here in Wichita, Kansas.

She did state herself that there was a story to tell, but that it was not her story to tell. There was a story to tell, but it's not her story to tell. Wasn't she the only adult in the home when he went missing? There was also a homeless man there. At the time that Lucas went missing. Okay. And who was that? By the name of Christian Riles. Let me ask you, what evidence supports the theory that there was a homeless man in the home when Lucas goes missing? It's actually been reported and verified by the police officers. They did bring him in for questioning and did have him talk to Emily, trying to get her to talk.

But unfortunately, just two weeks after he spoke to the police and talked about his involvement in the Lucas Hernandez case and his disappearance, he coincidentally wound up dead in a hit and run accident. Well, my question is, first of all, what was a homeless man doing in their home, if that's true? Emily is a very empathetic person. It was cold outside outside it was just the type of person she is as far as somebody being outside cold but we have since learned that this Christian R also has connections with Misty Cox, who has appointed herself as the spokesperson now for the Hernandez, well, for Lucas Hernandez's mom and dad. Well, this is starting to sound like a very vast conspiracy that a homeless man was in the home at the time Lucas goes missing. And he, according to you, has connections with

Lucas's biological mom who lived in a different city. Actually, Jamie lived here. Jamie lives in Wichita, Kansas, a hop, skip, and a jump from Emily and Jonathan's home. And where, to Emily and Jonathan, is their home in Wichita? Yes, it is. When you say a hop, skip, and a jump, that's interesting. Let me rephrase. So, according to you, and this is according to Emily, at the time the five-year-old little boy goes missing under her care, she has invited an unknown homeless man into the home. We now know his name. And you are stating that he had connections, whatever that means, to the biological mother who lived elsewhere.

Is that correct? To Lucas's bio mom. Now, why would anybody take a nap with a homeless man in the home with your child? That I can't answer. I'm a mother of seven children and I do know that if my children were napping, I would try and nap with them anytime I could take a nap. Your own doctor tells you. With a homeless man? Well, no. With a homeless man? No, with a homeless man in my home. I've never done that. But yeah. Okay. So another thing during these three months that Lucas was missing, the homeless man was never taken into custody. He was questioned after Glass pointed a finger at him,

but he was never taken into custody and arrested for any reason. Why is that? Actually, Emily Glass never named him. The police actually found that, found it. Oh, wait, wait, wait. That's, hold on, hold on. Let me write this down. So Lucas goes missing, a five-year-old tot boy. And this is Emily's story. There's a homeless man in the home. Yet when police come to find and look for the boy, she never mentions a homeless man in the home? Okay, you don't see a problem with that? She had told Jonathan about it, and he was fine with it. And

the police are actually the ones who found out about the homeless man or Christian Riles being there. And they located. I know, but Jonathan may be fine with it, which I frankly don't believe that any man, any father or any parent out of town will be okay with a homeless guy in your home. You want to help a homeless person? Give them some money, take them to a shelter, give them something to eat. Don't bring them in with your own baby girl and your tot stepson. I find that really hard to believe, and that she would take a nap with a homeless guy there with a child and that when that child goes missing she never tells police hey i had a guy here uh giving him shelter from the cold obviously he's involved now if even in this scenario which i do not believe but even in this scenario if it were true i'm more about

finding out the truth as we are then why did she know why did emily glass know where the body was okay where the top boy had been hidden okay um nancy this is shanie and from what we're understanding from emily she was not sure where the body was. And she kept telling this man, I think it's in Keechai. I think it's in Keechai. He drove her out to Harvey County over this bridge at least 30 times. And he said, I think he's out here. And he stops at bridges and just happens to be the first bridge that this man stops at. And Lucas is under that bridge. But if you listen to it.

Okay. Well, wait, wait, wait. If you listen to the podcast audio that yet, that's not what I hear. I don't hear him telling her where to go. How would I mean? That's not what happened. And when you look over the bridge, you can't even tell because I've seen it myself. When you look into that gully, you can't even tell that that is Lucas.

No, you can't. And she told him, she actually told him, I believe it's Keechai. I believe it's Keechai. And she kept saying, I let Lucas down. She let Lucas down because she could not defend him and what all was going on around her. You mean because she let a homeless man in the home that killed him and then concealed it from police? I'm saying this homeless man did not just show up on her doorstep by accident. I believe that.

I'm saying this homeless man did not show up on her doorstep at all. Oh. Because it doesn't make sense to me. How would she know where the tot's dead body was? She led him there out of everywhere in the area. She led him to this obscure location. The homeless man did show up at a doorstep because that was that was proven by Wichita the police department and they took him in and for questioning

he was also arrested but on other cases. Well they also had him talk to Emily. And they took him over to the jail to talk to Emily but she's like I don't know you. She was playing kind of crazy, like, I don't know you. It was a situation that I don't think you're clear of or any of us are really clear of. There was drug usage going on at that time. There was things going on in the home that none of us knew what was really going on. We've got an innocent boy there. We've got an innocent boy there. We've got an innocent baby girl. But the day that Emily was taken into custody, the woman had looked like she had been beaten. Two black eyes, her hands were all tore up. That was a woman fighting. Her knuckles were completely bruised, like she was

fighting to protect somebody. That's why she says. Well, then why did she never tell any of that to police? Wouldn't it be more important to find Lucas? And how would she know that Lucas's body is in Keechai? How would she know that? It wasn't even in Keechai. That's the sad part. It was in Harvey County. Well, you just said that she continued to say, I think Lucas's body is in Keechai. So, well then, how did she end up at an obscure bridge in the middle of nowhere to tell the private eye where the body was? He drove over that bridge over and over. And he said, okay, I'm going to tell you. I think you know where Lucas is at.

He's at one of these bridges, so we'll just stop at all of them. Nancy, I've listened to all the audio. You know, David Marshburn, the PI, provided us every second of audio that Emily was with him. And painstakingly, we've all listened to six and a half hours of it as they're driving around, and that's not what I heard. So question to Emily's friend, where are you getting the information as to what Marshburn said to her? Where did that? Well, on one of the edited podcast that you had where it says right there that he asked Emily which bridge and she's like, I can't tell you, I don't know. And he says, then we'll just drive over all these bridges and we'll get out and start looking. You know, I don't hear him saying that i i don't ever recall that but to the point that's happening

right now emily glass has been shot do you believe she shot herself no ma'am i've got and i showed the police i took my phone tonight. Jonathan Hernandez actually said last Wednesday, Thursday night, if he seen Emily, he didn't know that he could keep himself from killing her. Because she asked Jonathan, will you meet up with me? No tape recorders, no cameras, no videos, nothing, no phones. I want to talk to you about everything that happened that night. And Jonathan told to a friend, I cannot meet up with her because if I do, I'm not sure I won't kill her. Are you suggesting that the father of Lucas Hernandez shot Emily Glass, the stepmother? Yes, I am. Let me just say here that while Jonathan Hernandez, the father,

was in the home where Emily is shot and did call 911, to my understanding, there is no evidence at all that he shot Emily Glass right now. It is undetermined as to the shooting. Go ahead, dear. Emily didn't call 911. He did, what the officers told him. When they got there, he said she was code blue.

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Throughout June, Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three-part limited series of Haley Dean Mysteries based on characters from the New York Times bestselling books by Nancy Grace. The series continues this Sunday, June 10th, with Haley Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder. It all starts at 9 p.m. Eastern this Sunday. Grab your popcorn and join Nancy Grace for Haley Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder on Hallmark Movies and Mysteries. With me now, Susan Constantine, psychologist and author of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language. You can find her at SusanConstantine.com, her book on Amazon. Forensics expert, renowned Joseph Scott Morgan, Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com,

and crime online investigative reporter, Lee Egan. Lee Egan, when were police called to the home? As we know right now, the stepmother under suspicion in the mistreatment of a boy found dead under a bridge, Lucas Hernandez, has been shot. Who, what, where, when, and why, Lee? Give it to me in a nutshell. Nancy, what happened was Jonathan, Lucas' father, called around a little after 1.30 a.m. He said he walked into the home off of South Edgemore

and found a woman unresponsive with a gunshot wound. Police arrived a short time later and pronounced her dead. At this time, they're saying there's no evidence of homicide, but they're not calling it suicide either. They're still investigating. It's still very early in the investigation. Very early in a developing story, Emily Glass has been shot. The person that finds her body is Lucas Hernandez's father, Jonathan, who we spoke with in depth. Joining me, Emily's friends, Shelly Eberhardt. And you are convinced that she did not shoot herself?

Yes, we are. I'm Shani Howell, and she's Shelly Eberhardt. We're both Emily's friends, and we're both convinced she did not shoot herself after reading several text messages and things of Jonathan in the last week saying when Emily was released from jail last week and the baby was found baby Lucas was found that he would not he could not refrain himself from possibly killing her and all she wanted to do was talk to him and explain things to him he would not meet up with her and i asked jonathan i said jonathan don't don't you think that there's enough killings going on and he had this um he's been enough people have died

through all this and he put the emoji sign up like hmm let's see and now Emily's dead tonight. Take a listen to what Emily Glass says from her jail cell before she was let scot-free. Can you tell me any more about what happened that Saturday when he disappeared? Just the fact that we took a shower and we took a nap like we always do. I put him down for a movie and his polo because he had an accident when he was asleep so that was why he had a polo on. And he had fallen asleep after my shower, which is why I went down. Ma'am, I gotta go. You are hearing Emily Glass as she is speaking with KWCH, Devin Fassbender,

and at no time does she mention anyone else in the home. As a matter of fact, throughout questions, explanations, the homeless man she now points to being there emerged later for 90 days plus. Search teams, ATVs, dogs, helicopters, volunteers look for the boy. It's only when private investigator Marshburn gets the stepmother in the car. They drive for four to five hours until she leads him to Lucas's dead body. In the last hours, Emily Glass found shot. Lucas's father discovers her body and calls 911. With me, two of Emily's dear friends, Jamie Howell and Sherry

Eberhardt. Susan Constantine, author of Idiot's Guide to Reading Body Language on Amazon. Susan, you have carefully combed over every single statement given by Emily Glass. Explain. Yeah, what I did, Nancy, is I conducted statement analysis on every single one of the statements and looking for areas that were connecting or disconnecting. And overall, when I'm reading through there, there were several areas that just didn't make sense. They were incongruent to what she was saying. There was lots of filler words, additional words that were not there. And you have to understand that with statement analysis, the writer or the speaker chooses subconsciously every single word that they put down and what they say.

So every word is examined on its own. And then why is it there? For example, when we're looking at the one you were just talking about that they took a shower, like he always does, making it sound as if this is something that's routine. I put him down for a movie. Now here's the other information in his pull-up. Now that part really doesn't really fit, does it? But there's a reason why Emily put that in there. And then she says, you know, he has accidents. All right. So no one asked her that question. She put that in there? And then she says, you know, he has accidents. All right. So no one asked her that question. She put that in there. So that's why we had pull up on him. So when I'm reading that, that's clear to me that saying that some way reason why he ended up abused is somewhere around the reason why he had accidents in his bed. I see what you mean. Let me ask to the friends Jamie Howell and Shelly Eberhardt. People had noticed that Lucas was covered in bruises in the past.

What do you, if anything, do you know about that? Did Emily ever explain that? The bruises? Yes. Okay. Now, this is what we've been told, and not just by Emily, but by family. Because Emily was pretty much the provider, and not financially because she didn't work. Jonathan did.

But as far as taking care of Emily, my own mom wasn't, which was Jamie, wasn't out in the kitchen, not allowed to see him unless it was supervised. So Jamie, or Emily, had him all the time. She took him to school. She got him home the time. She took him to school. She got him home from school. She took him to his doctor's appointment. She got him home. She dressed him very well. There were several times that we were told that Jonathan went on the attack mode of hurting his own child, and Jamie, or Emily Emily would have to pull him off and then Jamie

or then Emily would get beat but there's also a there's also a situation going on right now where Jonathan attacked one of Jane or one of Emily's biological sons and he's being charged for it right now in Sedgwick County Court. Nancy, this is Ashley. Could I jump in? Because there's something really important I think that all listeners need to understand about one of the statements just made. When she stated that Emily took him to the doctor, dressed him well, here's the problem in our society as a whole. People tend to believe that that means those people that dress their children well, take them to the doctor, take care of them, take them out to dinner, feed them, don't abuse or neglect their children. And that's absolutely false statistically. And I do not want people to continue to have a perception and belief

that just because a parent or person who's a caretaker takes the child to the doctor and dresses them well necessarily means they're not capable of abuse or neglect because it does not mean that. I want to follow up Ashley Wolcott with childcrimewatch.com and Juvenile Judge. Lee Egan with me, investigative reporter with crimeonline.com. Lee, when Lucas's aunt was so upset about Lucas being covered in bruises, didn't those occur while the dad, who I think worked with the oil companies, was gone? Yes, they did. I believe what happened was he was back in town and he was with Emily when they were visiting the aunt and she noticed the bruises then.

But supposedly they happened when he was working. That's what I'm hearing, but there's no confirmation of that. I want to go back to Emily Glass's friends, Jamie Howell and Shelly Eberhardt, here with us. They say there's no way the gunshot wound on Emily Glass was self-inflicted, that she would never have shot herself. Question to you guys. I'm having a hard time understanding. Emily Glass, as you say, and I think you're correct,

had Lucas all the time, as you say, all the time. She did. So if she has him all the time she's not responsible for all those bruises if she's got him all the time and did she report the abuse did she take him to the doctor about the abuse she apparently kept her own child in the home with the father even after she sees him according to her beating, beating the child. I mean, if my husband beat my children one time, it would be a miracle if he walked out of this house alive. But I tell you another thing, he would never have a second chance. There would never be another

chance to beat the children. That would not happen happen so you're telling me that she brought a homeless man into the home that she then takes a shower and a nap and leaves the children with a homeless man wakes up the boy is gone does not tell police about the homeless man lets a search go on for all this time, leads the investigator to the body, but you don't think she had anything to do with his death? No, I do not. What do you think happened to him? I don't even know how to really go into stating what I think happened to him because I think that there's a lot more people involved in this than just two or three people involved in this little boy's death. How could that be? She was the only one that we know of in the home. But she wasn't. That's what you're being led to believe

by Jonathan or whatever. But Jonathan and them all knew this homeless man. They all knew this homeless man. They've all set up a go-ahead for him. Alan Duke, we have combed over the police reports and the investigative reports that we've been able to get. Is there any indication that police believe anyone was in the home other than Emily Glass when Lucas disappeared? I'm not aware of any, and maybe Lee Egan can verify that. Lee, you have been on the scene at the jailhouse. What are you learning? Was there,

do police believe somebody was in the home other than Emily Glass, who's now been shot at the time Lucas goes missing. No, they do not, at least from what they're telling us. The only person of interest from what law enforcement has said is Emily Glass. guy in the home that she, Emily, felt so comfortable with that she went to sleep for three hours leaving the children with the homeless guy? Well, the homeless man was in the house. The problem is we're not sure what day he was in the house. He spoke to detectives. We're not sure what he said because they're not telling us. And shortly after he was killed. So we're not sure when or why he was in the home. Is there any indication he was there when Lucas went missing?

No. Do you think it had anything to do with Emily Glass' use of methamphetamine? Yes. In other words, was that her dope buddy? Probably. The plot seemingly thickens, and now the culmination of the search and discovery of Lucas's body is Emily Glass has been found shot, found by Lucas's father, Jonathan Hernandez, who calls 911. Maybe the people that have more insight than any of us are Emily's friends, Shelley Eberhardt and Sinead Howell.

Guys, thank you for being with us. You say that so many people were involved with Lucas's death. It's really hard for me to believe, and I'll tell you why. And I'm not saying I'm not wrong. People cannot keep their yaps shut. When there's a conspiracy or there are several people involved in wrongdoing, somebody always blabs. It's just, you know.

It's coming out now. Even in Watergate with the, okay, who do you believe are the people involved and why would they cover up the death of a little boy? Okay, I believe that Jamie was in something called Wicca. They're in something called Wicca. Have you ever heard of it? Yes, I have heard of Wicca. It's a name for witchcraft. You now think that this is part of a witchcraft plot? I sure do. Yes, I do. And I believe that's why everybody else that's telling

their story is coming up dead. I have been shot at. I have been ran off the road. And that's a warning to me. That's just a warning. I have Facebook messages that are warning me to back off. That's just a warning, they say. Why would you believe this has anything to do with Wicca? Because that's what they were into. Who is they? Jonathan, Jamie. Jamie's got the emblems on the back of her car, which is the bio mom. It's to you sacrifice your firstborn child, your firstborn son.

Well, you were close friends with Emily. Did she try to recruit you to Wicca? Oh, no, no, no, no. I wouldn't. I'm not. I'm a very, I believe in God. I don't believe in anybody else but God. But then did Emily Glass discuss Wicca with you? No, she discussed it with a friend of ours. But you were close to her. If she was in Wicca, what evidence? I'm not going to be in that. What? I freak out. I don't want to hear anything about it. Okay. Right now, this is what we know. Emily Glass has been shot. The father of Lucas Hernandez. Call 911. I'm so sorry for you.

I put everyone through fucking hell. It's okay. The only thing you can do from here is move forward and do everything right. Where's the dog? I did Lucas so wrong. I did him wrong. God honest truth. That is Emily Glass telling private eye David Marshburn that she, quote, did Lucas wrong. This is as they are finding the child's dead body. And that's what we're losing sight of right now.

With all the discussion of a conspiracy and a homeless guy and Wicca. Bottom line, Emily Glass was in the home at the time the talk goes missing. Emily Glass led a private eye to the body in an obscure location. Emily Glass, in the last hours, has been shot. I want to go to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, right now it's all going to hinge on a postmortem. What will they be looking for to determine was this a suicide or a homicide? Well, she's been shot, Nancy. The first thing they're going to be looking for is evidence on the body relative to range of fire. If this was,

say, for instance, a shooting at a distance, that would lean or list more toward, for instance, a homicide that someone was facing her or back of her, whatever the attitude was, and fired into her. One thing at a time, one thing at a time, distance. You're right. They're going to look to see if the bullet wound was at close range. If it were at close range, that could suggest suicide. Not necessarily. A perp can hold a gun to her head or her body and shoot her at close range. But if it's not at close range, i.e., further than 36 inches away, you will not get any gunshot residue.

Right. But within that, well, I like to pare it down to about 22 inches out and in, that you're going to get some kind of soot disposition. That is the distribution of unburned gunpowder on the body at that distance. Now, one of the things they're going to be looking for. Slow down. Slow down. Yep. You got me drinking out of a fire hydrant here.

I've got Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned forensics expert. Joe Scott, the point of that is, if it is close range, maybe she shot herself, maybe somebody else shot her. If it's not close range, then somebody else definitely shot her because you can only hold a gun X inches away from yourself and shoot yourself. So if it's beyond, say, two feet, somebody else shot her. How do we know if it's beyond two feet? You don't have gunshot residue invisible to the naked eye. When the gun is discharged, residue comes out of the gun and sprays to about 36 inches max. So if there's no gunshot residue on her body, then she did not shoot herself next. Yeah. And we have to think about, you know, one of the things they're going to look at obviously is her arm length. You know,

how far away is she capable of holding this weapon? In my experience, the lion's share of cases involving suicides are going to involve what we refer to as hard contact or press contact gunshot wounds. The most common area is going to be to the head, and that means that the weapon would be tightly pressed to the head, some locational head, more than likely the temple. That's generally where people do it, or in the mouth. Okay, now to me, we're rehashing, and I'll tell you why. If it's a contact wound, you're not only going to have gunshot residue,

you're going to have searing. In other words, a little bit of a burn around the bullet entry, around the gun barrel itself on the head. It's hard to find, but it's easy to find if you're a trained professional. Long story short, if there's burning or searing, it could be a suicide. It could still be a homicide. And beyond that, I'm to the next thing, Joe Scott. What I'm saying is if the shot was beyond 36 inches, she did not kill herself. So if there's no residue on her body, then it was not 36 inches. I'm past the contact wound. I'm past the 36 inches. Now we're going

to be looking at angle, angle, entry, angle, exit and entry. Explain. What you're going to be talking about is if say for instance a perpetrator was standing above her or at her same level, the angle of entry, and that gives you an idea of attitude and relationship between the victim and the shooter. And so we've moved beyond distance. We're talking about angle of deflection now. Let's say, for instance, you've got somebody down on the floor, all right, and they're begging for their life. That angle is going to be completely different if we're standing at eye level and you pull a weapon and you shoot them in the chest or the face or wherever it is that you shoot them. So that's going to give you an idea. Remember, we can't go back to the

scene and question the victim. It's going to give you an idea of the dynamic that was going on in that environment. You know, what was going on at that particular time and where were they relative to position in the dwelling in this particular case, if she is in the dwelling, I still don't know completely. Well, let's go to her friends. Joining me, Ms. Howell and Ms. Eberhardt, what are you learning about the circumstances surrounding Emily's gunshot wound? What room was she in? Was she on the floor? Was she in the bedroom, on the bed? What do we know? We were not told. We were not allowed to get close to the house on you think the front room i'm saying i believe the front room i believe there might have been some kind

of struggle between the front room and maybe the back door what's the front room is that a living room or a bedroom what is it living room but there is question is this the same home you're talking about where lucas was last seen alive yes and i do know that since lucas has passed there have been cameras hidden at home so i don't know if jonathan is aware of these cameras but i think the wichita police department should be made aware of them you know what's interesting we were told that for about a week before Lucas was reported missing, nobody had seen him. He was absent from school. No one called. He was sick with the flu.

Did you see him? No, I didn't. His aunt, which I spoke to from Udall, she said he was sick with the flu, and he was put on Vofrin, so they kept using him. So did anybody see Lucas? Because the school was apparently never called, and they did not. They were trying to call Emily Glass, but she would never call back. Why Lucas had been out of school for over a week i believe

the one that did see him on the 14th february 14th was his bio mom and she picked him up for valentine's day and went and got him a gift and brought him back february the 14th yep suppose she supposedly she brought him back the 14th as well. Where are you learning this? Because there is a theory that he was dead by the 11th. No, we were told by Emily had told her grandmother and her aunt that she was going to be in trouble by Jonathan because she let Jamie know where she lives and she was not supposed to do that

because they had already moved away from one place because Jamie was badgering them so they had moved away and they moved into this new house and... Okay, wait a minute. Hold on. Let me understand what you're saying. If they had moved away to a secret location away from the bio mom

then how could the bio mom have left all those bruises on the boy the bio mom didn't leave any bruises on them on him the bio dad did the real father he was abusive with her and he was also abusive with emily okay all right she's been called that they're been called to work with them before. Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com reporter. Lee, what are you learning about the shooting? What room was she in? Was she clothed?

What time? Anything you can tell us. At this point, nothing. I'm looking at a live feed from KWCH, and it appears that Jonathan's truck is no longer at the house from the angle I'm seeing. And I did see it there previously. And I did want to touch on something with what one of the ladies just said about the 14th. Law enforcement did speak with Jamie, and she told them that the last time she saw Lucas was in December celebrating his birthday, and she had not seen him in months. That's an untrue statement because just two or three weeks prior to that,

she showed up at Beach Elementary and tried to physically have a fight with Emily. She showed up at the boys' school. I think that she's correct. I think that that did happen. What either Ms. Howell or Shelly Eberhard are saying, I think that confrontation did happen, but still, she was not with the boy. She was not with Lucas. The bio mom had an altercation with Emily Glass, but she did not get Lucas, to my understanding. The last time, according to police, the bio mom had Lucas was back in December at his birthday. Ashley Wolcott joining in,

juvenile judge, founder of childcrimewatch.com. Ashley, in a scenario like this, nobody's a suspect. Everybody's a suspect because there's so many high emotions. But I always go back to what we know as to who was in the home at the time the boy goes missing and who led Marshburn to the body. Absolutely. So, Nancy, one of the things I've always said in this case is she either did it. Emily either killed this child or she knows exactly what happened to this child. And who is in the home goes directly to that point. The other thing I want to say is it's really splitting hairs to say

she didn't kill this child, but she wasn't comfortable. She was afraid she didn't tell anybody what happened or who was involved. That's the same thing. If you know that a child is a victim of abuse, neglect, murder, and you choose not to report it and tell everything that happened and the truth around what happened. It's just as bad as if you kill the child yourself. And in this particular case, I think that's what's happened. Well, what the friends are doing here is they are struggling with the evidence and they're struggling about what happened to Emily Glass. They're her friends. They are defending her because they know her in a way that we don't. And it's very hard to believe for them, I'm sure, that she may have had something

to do with Lucas's death or disappearance. And for all I know, they have evidence that I don't have. So I'm very intrigued about what they're saying. I agree with you. And I think there's a lot of evidence to be had there that needs to be shared with law enforcement and police so it can be investigated. But I'm still going to stand by what we all have to keep in mind. It's all good evidence. But anything that Emily has told them happened without some collaboration outside of that. Hold on just one moment. I hear that Susan Constantine, psychologist and author,

wants in. Susan, you have sifted through everything Emily Glass has said. What are your thoughts? Yeah, you know, the last statement is probably the most telling, where she says, I did Lucas so wrong. I did him wrong. Well, you notice that her voice intensifies. And the word I, she's taking ownership. There was not we or us. So it shows one person. Did is the word of the act. I did. Lucas was the victim. And the word so, it's like saying, I am so happy to see you, or I'm so upset. So is a word that is something that happens over time. And then she uses the word wrong. Wrong is connected to the abuse. Something happened that created that.

So when we look at it as I did Lucas so wrong, it is she takes ownership of the act. The victim is Lucas. She did it over time and the act was abuse. And then she says right after that, I feel so sorry for him. When she says feel, she's talking about in present tense, her voice and her words show remorse. So you can sense that she's feeling remorseful at this point in time. But then she says, Glass said she put him through hell, meaning a long duration of abuse. And then she gives you an affirmation. This is the God's

honest truth. Well, I want to just talk common sense for one moment. Common sense. Okay. Help me out with this. Anybody that wants in Alan, if a child, you and I are both parents. If a child is missing and you don't know where they are and you don't know what's happened to them and you had some stranger in your home and wouldn't the first thing you say, I had that piece of crap, Alan Duke, in my home and now my baby's missing. Go find Alan Duke. We got to find Lucas. He may know. Instead of sitting on your thumb, Alan, I mean,

if you don't know that Lucas is dead, unless you know where he is, why wouldn't you track the homeless guy down yourself and go lead me to Lucas? You were with my boy. Where is he? Or I will kill you. I mean, that never happened. And I can't imagine any other response. I can't imagine just being quiet when you know that child is under a bridge. So explain to me. Back to Ms. Eberhardt and Ms. Howell. See, I think Emily Glass is the key to what happened to Lucas.

You disagree. You may know more than me, but why would she? She didn't already know Lucas was dead. Why wouldn't she have police out that night? You said she told her husband, not police. Why weren't they looking for him to find out where Lucas was? Could have saved his life. The police were contacted first, then her husband came in from New Mexico.

And then I know that. But you said she only told her husband about a homeless guy in the home that night. Well, I don't really know how the police found out because they did find out because they took the young man into custody. So somehow they did know whether it was a lead that they got or what they did get. They did get a lead. Why didn't she tell police that night when she reported him missing around 6 o'clock? Like I told you earlier, I think that she was fighting. She had bruises on her fingers, on her knuckles, two black eyes.

I do believe there was a struggle in that home. Lucas was injured. She was fearing for Mia, fearing for herself. She'd already seen what whoever these people were did to her stepson. She just wanted to wait. So instead of trying to save Lucas's life, she never reported any of this. Okay, that's a theory, but this is what I know right now. Emily Glass has been shot, and we are waiting to find out from the medical examiner

the cause and manner of death. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. Did you know a recent law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power by using a new website called Truthfinder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket? Received a lien from the IRS?

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Throughout June, Hallmark Movies and Mysteries presents a three-part limited series of Haley Dean Mysteries based on characters from the New York Times bestselling books by Nancy Grace. The series continues this Sunday, June 10th, with Haley Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder. It all starts at 9 p.m. Eastern this Sunday, June 10th, with Haley Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder. It all starts at 9 p.m. Eastern this Sunday. Grab your popcorn and join Nancy Grace for Haley Dean Mysteries, A Marriage Made for Murder, on Hallmark Movies and Mysteries. This is an iHeart Podcast.