Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BREAKING NEWS: MISSING CHRISTINA JOHNSON FOUND
Episode Date: March 21, 2024After moving back to Houston, Christina Johnson has been staying with her dad. Her normal routine includes her Max, her 10-year-old mix breed dog. Johnson rarely goes anywhere without her canine best ...friend. Each morning, Christina grabs her laptop and takes Max for a walk to a nearby Jack-in-the-box, or they go to the Hackberry Community Center. Johnson's family says Christina and Max are often gone all day long but are always back before evening. On March 6, Christina left with Max as she usually does, but they didn't come back home, according to her father, Emmanuel Johnson. He reports his daughter missing and begins searching for her. Johnson says Christina would never stay away this long and believes she might be held against her will. Then a shocking discovery: In a neighborhood seven miles away from the Johnson home, Callie Clemens, driving in a ferocious downpour, spots a dog similar to Max, wandering around all alone. She has seen reports of Christina and Max missing and calls Max by name. Now BREAKING News as we go to air, Emmanuel Johnson tells us his daughter has been found. Listen to his reaction. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Emmanuel Johnson - Christina’s Father Dr. John Delatorre - Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; X, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre Angelina Farris - Deputy Director of Texas EquuSearch (leading the search to find Christina) Michael Ybanez - Former Houston Police Homicide Detective, Licensed Private Investigator Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker for Lead Stories; X: @swimmie2009 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Transcript
Discussion (0)
You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Has the mystery surrounding a beautiful young tennis star who goes missing with her little dog
been solved. Of course, I'm talking about a gorgeous young woman, Christina Johnson,
who seemingly goes for a walk with her little dog and is never seen again. Her father and mother begging for help in the last moments, literally as we go
to air. Bombshell. Christina Johnson has been found. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thanks for being with us here on Crime Stories and on Series XM 111.
Joining me right now, an all-star panel, but first I want to go to Christina's father,
who was there on location telling us the latest.
Mr. Johnson, first of all, as I mentioned when we went to air, PTL, praise the Lord. You know, I don't get to announce this kind of news very often.
In fact, practically ever. Tell us what happened. Well, we still don't know from the day she left to today. She was
located at the University of Houston campus. So she's en route to the hospital now.
We do have Max, which is kind of ironic. We had another dog we thought
was Max and they look identical.
But yeah, she's safe
and I'm headed
to the hospital now. Guys, Mr. Johnson is
right. A bedraggled,
wet, beat up little dog
that everyone thought was Max,
including
Christina's parents. And they know
the dog was found separated from Christina. She's on the way to the hospital right now,
but let's backtrack and figure out what exactly happened. First of all, I want you to hear what Mr. Johnson said earlier to KPRC2.
I believe she may be being held against her will or anything could be going on right now.
And Lord knows where she is. I have no idea.
And more.
Come home. Your father, your mother miss you. Your brothers miss you.
They're down here from out of town. We all just want to know you're safe.
And I was just speaking with the detective. They're down here from out of town. We all just want to know you're safe. And I was just speaking with the detective.
They're getting sightings, possibly, another 10 miles from here.
So it's covering a wide range.
So they're doing drone searches, seeing if they can get any eyes on him.
Guys, you can hear the pain in his voice and the desperate search for his daughter.
You know, and the thing about your daughter, Christina, she's the daughter everybody hopes
their daughter will grow into. Loving, super smart, athletic champion, and you nurtured her
all the way through those years. Mr. Johnson,
tell me about when she went missing. What happened that day?
Well, again, she left as she usually does, 8 a.m. And typically she'd come back before dark.
And this particular instance, she didn't come back, which was puzzling. And another day went by.
Then I had to initiate a missing persons report.
And we've been pretty much scrambling.
Now, it's my understanding she had graduated from college
and was looking for a job and had moved back home for the job search.
And every day she would get her laptop and her little dog, Max, and they would go to like a jack-in-a-box or somewhere where there's Wi-Fi, and she would work.
And you had spotted her there every day, sitting right there, working on resumes.
Oh, my star, she's gorgeous.
Working on resumes, trying to make contacts, trying to get a job, and this day she leaves as normal. No bags, no curling irons, no liquids, makeup,
nothing like that that you would expect her to take on an overnight trip.
She leaves with her laptop and the dog, Max, and she never comes home.
That is what you knew.
So what do we know exactly about that day? Listen to Dave Mack.
March 6th, Emanuel Johnson says his daughter Christina left with Max as she usually does,
but they didn't come back home. He reports his daughter missing and begins searching for her.
Johnson says Christina would never stay away this long and believes she might be being held
against her own will.
Then a shocking discovery. In a neighborhood seven miles away from the Johnson home,
Callie Clemons, driving in a ferocious downpour, spots Max wandering around all alone. She has seen
reports of Christina and Max missing and calls Max by name. He lets her pick him up. Max is now safe,
but there's still no sign of Christina Johnson. You know, to you,
Mr. Johnson, this is Christina's dad. Your heart must have plummeted. What went through your mind
when this good Samaritan seemingly finds Max in a torrential downpour? Oh, my stars.
Yeah, I was mortified. My main concern was if they find max where's
christina and um so that that was um that was a point in my time that i was i was very confused
and again um i was worried uh i was worried about where where christina was worried about where Christina was. Worried? Oh, my stars. That's putting it mildly.
I mean, if my little girl or my son, they're twins,
goes for a walk with our dog, Fat Boy,
and then I find Fat Boy wandering days later in a downpour
in lightning and thunder without them,
I mean, what went through your mind?
What did you think?
I mean, obviously I thought foul play.
I thought someone might have grabbed her
or was holding her against her will
or things of that nature.
And I thought the worst.
I mean, obviously it was taxing on both me and my wife.
I ran through about a million scenarios
of what could possibly be, where she could possibly be.
And none of them were good.
You know, I just feel like I want to break down in tears right now because I've been following the case, Max, turned up without her, I've got to tell you, all my legal knowledge
and investigative knowledge screamed that she had been killed because she would never have separated
from that little Max, the dog who we thought had been found. Now, you know, everybody's going to
want to know all these answers. Okay. you get a call just before you join us.
Tell me about the call.
Tell me what you did.
We'll rehash the search for her and what you and your wife have been through.
But I want to hear some good news.
Tell me exactly what happened.
Well, the detective, the police officers here at University of Houston contacted us this morning,
called me, and said they found
her. And she was here on campus and they also found Max. And I was like, I was taken aback,
like, wow, you know, what's the address, you know? And I immediately started heading me this way.
And yeah, it was a great, it was a great call. I felt, you know, a release, you know, a big relief off my heart that she's still alive and she's safe.
I got a question.
When the detective called you and said, we think we found her, what is the first thing that went through your mind?
I wanted to talk to her.
I wanted to confirm it was her.
Especially when they said they found her and Max.
There's been a lot of confusion going on
throughout this period.
So I definitely wanted to hear her voice
so I could confirm it was her.
And I heard her
and I knew it was her.
And it was, again,
a big relief at that particular point
knowing that she was okay.
And yeah, it was just a big weight off my shoulders,
off our family's shoulders.
So you did talk to her.
Have you seen her?
Yes.
I laid eyes on her.
She looked physically fine.
But, again, she's headed out to the hospital,
so I'm gonna go ahead
and be headed that way here shortly.
And just try to figure out, you know,
what's been going on all this time.
So was she found on campus?
Yes. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
I've got another question about you and your wife.
During these last days, since I believe March the 6th, that you have been searching for her high and low,
retracing every step, going everywhere she would have gone,
putting up flyers, doing everything you can.
Did you have dreams about her
where you were reunited with her,
where you saw her and she was okay?
This is ironic because back to back nights,
I've had two dreams about her.
And I was talking to my barber about it
and he was trying to
help interpret the dreams but yes as of recently I had two dreams back to back nights
and yeah what were they I got to hear this now I have time to ask that kind of question instead of
have there been canines did you do, did you search bodies of water?
Did you use horses, cadets, overhead?
That's normally where I'm headed at a moment when somebody's missing.
But now I get to find out other things.
And I've got to tell you, I'm frankly overjoyed.
What were the dreams?
It's kind of weird.
Just that I was back at home in Philadelphia.
And my, you know, Santa in my room and she would come
out my brother's room and just walk
by me and go into the bathroom
wouldn't say anything and I
you know when I and I immediately wake up
and I immediately
kind of figure out what was that about
and
that's another one where she's sitting on a couch
you know that's that's sitting there I guess that a couch, you know, just sitting there,
I guess, as if, you know, sitting on the top of the couch,
not the bottom of the couch,
but the top where her feet on the cushions,
like staring off at something.
And again, I immediately wake up and I'm totally confused,
but it happened back to back at night.
And I couldn't interpret what those dreams meant.
It was very weird.
Back to back. And that was in the last two nights?
Right. Exactly. And, you know, and I said to myself last night that she can't be in the area that we're searching.
She has to be either in Fifth Ward or Third Ward.
And this morning we find her U of H campuses in Third Ward. So I kind of had a
premonition, if you will, that she was in this particular area.
Okay. Let me, let me, well, first of all, I've had a similar dream after my, my dad passed away.
And like you, I see him in a comforting and familiar setting back at my
old Methodist church back home in rural Bibb County. And he is walking away and he always
turns back and looks at me like I'm going to join him. And I don't know what any of
that means, but I see him. And I'm trying to figure out if you were getting some sort
of a premonition you were going to find your daughter the next day because you did.
She was on campus.
Was she in a dorm, a community center, a house?
Where was she?
Well, the story is still kind of cloudy.
I think she talked to the campus police for whatever reason, and she went about her business. And then I guess they had the foresight to look into the database and they noticed that, hey, she fits the subscription of the description of the young lady and the dog that's missing.
So they immediately went back out, located her and brought her here. I think that was last night, 11 p.m. or something to that extent.
And they finally got in touch with the detective on the case
and the detective told them to give me a call.
And here we are.
Guys, we are speaking to Christina Johnson's father,
Emmanuel Johnson, who has just gotten the good news,
the wonderful news.
His daughter is alive.
Joining me, Mr. Johnson, don't move an inch. Joining me
in All-Star Panel to make sense of what we're hearing right now. But first, I want to go to
Angelina Ferris, Deputy Director, Texas EquiSearch, who has been leading the search to find Christina.
Angelina, thank you so much for being with us. Typically, when I'm with Texas EquiSearch,
the news is never good.
Tell me about the search that you led to find her.
Good morning and thank you for having us.
Yeah, so initially when we were contacted,
we had many, many cases coming through
and the one thing that stuck out
was that Christina was missing with her dog.
So we quickly sent a small team
just looking in
the shelters nearby the house where she was last seen. And then that's when the call came in from
a community member who said, hey, you know, you guys are looking for this lady and this dog,
and we think we found this dog. And so that was just something very, very quick that happened.
In the meantime, still trying to get information as to what her habits were,
what her daily routine was. Once we had all of that information, we started near her home,
which is where we always started, the last place that they were seen, and started going to the Jack in the Box and the areas and the stores and the library and the community center where she
went and try to find out if anybody had seen her. Had anybody seen her recently? So there was a concerted effort that Saturday and Sunday to look for her and find someone
who had seen her.
Fast forward a few days by Saturday, I want to say the 16th, we were able to obtain video
footage of her at an establishment, I want to say the day after she went missing.
And that gave us a lot of hope. I think for a little while, they were very concerned that
maybe something had happened to her. And once we saw that footage of her the next day,
and were able to confirm that it was Christina, that certainly made us hopeful. And there was
definitely a thought that she could be out, you know, walking around or going somewhere that where she was safe.
But it was just very worrying to not know where she was and not have any idea. to Michael Ibanez joining us, former Houston PD, detective, licensed private investigator
at Y2 Investigations. Michael, I've had so many cases where, for instance, you see a
kidnap victim go into a bank or go to an ATM and withdraw money. You think everything's
okay. It's not okay because sitting outside is a kidnapper
who has a gun or is threatening them. I mean, yes, I was thrilled to learn that there had been
what we thought was video surveillance of Christina, but things are not always as they seem.
Are they, Michael? No, they are not. And what you mentioned was a very real possibility. She could
have been kidnapped, held against her will.
Lord only knows what, because we don't know the full circumstances of her disappearance right now, Nancy.
But let me say God bless to Mr. Johnson and his family for the safe recovery of their daughter.
Because when I worked for the Houston Police Department in the Homicide Division, I had both sides of the investigation. I've had cases sent to me from missing persons
where the person ultimately ended up deceased. And I've had cases where we recovered them safe
and sound, some children as well. And it's just a beautiful, beautiful event when they are finally
recovered and returned to their family.
And so, yeah, you just don't know the circumstances until it's all fleshed out in the end.
No, you really don't. And sometimes it's like, are your eyes tricking you? Is that what we are
really seeing? Is that her? Is she there of her own volition? Guys, for those of you just joining us, we have
really a miracle. The search has been on for days and days for this beautiful girl,
Christina Johnson. Everyone has been praying, helping the search, hoping against hope that
she would be found alive. Joining me right now is her father, who has actually seen her.
So you're telling me she had been on campus and you didn't see any visible signs of injury?
Is that correct, Mr. Johnson?
Yes, that's correct.
She seemed to be in good health.
And, you know, she did have some stuff in her bag
as far as the food items that you see in the dog food
and things like that.
So, you know, we're trying to work through circumstances
and events right now.
And I'll know more later on today.
And I assume you immediately called her mother.
Definitely, definitely.
She was there when I got the call that she was found.
So she was immediately- What did she do?
You know, she was happy.
I'm sure it was a burden lifted off of her chest
because she's been concerned about this over the last 11 days.
Oh, gosh.
I don't know how you guys have even got up out of the bed
for the last 11 days.
Guys, who is this beautiful young girl that seemingly
walked to work on her resume to the Jack in the Box or the Community Center for Wi-Fi
and never came home? Listen to Nicole Parton, Crime Online.
Like many people, Christina Johnson played tennis when she was growing up.
Unlike most people, Christina Johnson became a champion tennis
player in her teens. She went on to play tennis for West Virginia University. After graduating
from Alderson Broadus University in West Virginia, Johnson moves back home to Houston to plan what
she wants to do next. And what about her daily routine? Listen to Sydney Sumner. After moving
back to Houston, Johnson has been staying with her dad.
Her normal routine includes Max, her 10-year-old mixed-breed dog.
Johnson rarely goes anywhere without her canine best friend.
Each morning, Christina grabs her laptop and takes Max for a walk to a nearby Jack in the Box
or they go to the Hackberry Community Center.
Johnson's family says Christina and Max are often gone all day long
but are always back before evening. Joining me is Christina's dad. Is that Max in the car with you?
It is. It is. It's definitely Max. He has the collar on that he should. Can I see that little guy?
Okay. Can I see that little guy? Because this little guy was a huge, huge clue in the case.
Okay, where is he?
I see you.
Max, you see him?
That little guy right there, it was like the biggest clue we could find until video surveillance emerged.
That guy, I am so happy to see him. And I'm just imagining the good Samaritan that jumped out
of her car in the thunder and the lightning because she thinks she sees Max and takes
the dog in. And what must have gone through your mind and Christina's mom's mind when
you find out your daughter's dog has been found, but no sign of Christina. During this time, to Dr. John
Delatore, licensed psychologist and mediator, Dr. Delatore, very often people have a psychotic break
and stress and so many other things build up in their minds. We don't know yet that that is what has happened.
But this is a girl, as you heard, Dr. Delatore, that's a very high achiever. No history. Yes,
I like that as we call it two shot very much. I'm going to be really happy when I see Christina
in the background too. Dr. Delatore, did you hear what we were saying about Christina, a champion tennis player?
She goes on to play at the college level.
You know how hard that is to achieve, to actually make it out of the millions of other people that want a college scholarship?
She makes it to WVU.
Then she graduates.
Then she starts the job search.
That's not easy.
Every day facing one defeat after the next defeat, after the next rejection, and still trying.
And everybody sees you as this champion, which you've been your whole life.
And then all of a sudden, nothing.
Yeah. Real life hits you, you know, expectations versus reality. This is one of those times where
all of these kinds of adulting type tasks now confronts this, this individual. And we know,
we don't know how the person is handling stress. We don't know how they manage all of these kinds
of things. And I'm sure she expected to have a lot of things
maybe put in place and already ready to go.
But she's working hard.
And I think that's the key is that sometimes
when you're working so hard, it can weigh so much on you.
That sometimes you forget to allow other people
to help you.
Sometimes you don't tell the people that are closest to you
what exactly it is that's going
on, whatever struggles that you might be experiencing, right? Allowing some of the
burden to go on with your family members so that they can help prop you up. Sometimes we think that
we can just face this and be isolated. And we still have so much to learn. And I'm glad
Christina is still around so that she can tell us her story so that she can help other people who may be facing similar kinds of issues.
Joining me is Christina's dad, Emanuel Johnson.
Mr. Johnson, was anyone else taken into custody?
Did you hear or know of anyone that had been harboring her?
At this point, no.
I'm not aware of anyone else that's in custody.
I have zero knowledge as far as what's been going on
for the last 11 days, but I don't,
to my understanding, there's nothing nefarious.
Again, I'll know more later on today.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty much where we are at this point.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
How much time did you get to spend with Christina?
A couple of minutes, a couple of minutes.
We wanted to go ahead and expedite, you know, getting her to the hospital and checked out.
And, you know, we wanted to go ahead and get Max.
It's been, it looks like he'd been in the rain quite a bit
and I had to go ahead and put him in the truck.
So as far as extracting any information, that hasn't taken place yet.
Mr. Johnson, what was her frame of mind?
Was she happy to see you?
Did she look out of it disoriented, sad, crying, hurting, pleased?
Tell me, what was her demeanor?
What did she say?
Well, it's kind of hard to describe at this point.
I think it was a, you know, to describe her demeanor,
I would say maybe confused to a certain extent.
So, you know, we just try again.
I'll know more later, but right now.
Did she recognize you?
Yes, she did.
Did she say daddy?
No.
Did she know you?
Well, again, I don't want,
I think her main concern was Max for whatever reason.
And we just need to go ahead and um you know um evaluate her
more evaluate the situation more and that'll tell us uh yeah something's wrong right right
something is wrong i don't know what it is but something is wrong right uh for her not to run
up to you and hug on you and say dad you know i'm so happy. Something is wrong. We don't know what yet. Number one,
I know this. She's alive. And I don't get to say that very often. So I'm just going to keep saying
it over and over. Christina is alive. We'll figure out what's wrong. We'll figure out what happened.
But the main thing is she's alive. She's on her way to the hospital. For those of you just joining
us, she's getting evaluated. We're trying to find out what happened, what went wrong.
But let me ask you this, Mr. Johnson.
Has it been hard for her going from literally being a tennis star and getting her, you know, getting to play at college and graduating to come out of that milieu?
And then suddenly she's at the jack-in-the-box using the Wi-Fi
trying to get a job. That must have been
a huge change for her.
Right. I mean, we have Wi-Fi at home.
It's not as if she
had to go to the jack-in-the-box to use the Wi-Fi
or anywhere else. It was just
a matter of her, I believe, getting out of the house.
But, you know, I've been reading
a lot about loneliness in this
country being an epidemic and
um things of that nature i don't i don't know i think you know these kids and i think it's across
the board for this generation x that you know the reality is starting to sit in like the other panel
panel member said and and things is not what they what it seems i guess or as easy as they want it
to be and i don't i don't know what kind of struggles, you know,
she may be going through.
We need to figure it out.
And, but, you know.
Mr. Johnson, you know what?
You know how many resumes I sent out
before I finally got that job
at the district attorney's office?
Right.
Which really is all I ever wanted.
I sent out over 300 resumes, over 300.
And I got one job, and it certainly was not the dream job.
Then another job, all trying to inch toward a goal.
And it can be hard.
It can be so hard, especially when you're coming from being on the top.
I mean, your daughter was a champion youth tennis star.
Gets to play at college.
Very few people get that.
Makes great grades, graduates,
ready to take on the world, and then bam.
Yeah.
And that's a very harsh, harsh transition.
Tell me, if you can, Mr. Johnson,
about that video surveillance
that at first we thought
was a crack in the case did you see the surveillance what was it I did see it to my
understanding she just went into the business to use the restroom as she was coming out she was
drying her hands off so and that was quite a distance from the house and the big question
was how did she get or you know get over there and what is question was how did she get you know
we get over there and what is she doing over there and and you know so I mean I
have more questions than answers at this point and you know hopefully later on
today we can go ahead and get a lot of these questions answered, you know, hopefully.
Yes, yes.
Joining me is Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.
Alexis, thank you for being with us.
I understand that once she left, other than that video surveillance, we had nothing about ATMs, credit cards, no other sightings.
Then sightings started popping up all over the place that were
not her. What can you tell me about that, Alexis Therese Chuck?
That's exactly what happened. She went missing and there was no contact from her. She didn't
use her credit card. She didn't purchase anything. She wasn't shopping at the Jack in the Box or at
the Target or anywhere. So then people started sending in, when the press found out about it,
when everybody started finding out after her dad went to the police, started getting the word out, people started sending in sightings.
Not maliciously, right?
They said, oh, we think we saw her at this place.
We thought we saw her at another place.
But none of them were Christina.
And so the search broadened.
It's a huge town.
So they started looking at different places.
But nothing was happening until the dog was found. And because she went missing with the dog,
that's sort of an extra clue for people to look for. You see just a girl by herself.
You might think, oh, she's just, but if you see this dog, so this woman finds this dog at night
in the rain, the thunder, the lightning. Great. She calls the dog. That is literally exactly how
I got my stray dog.
I called a missing dog's name and it came running to me. It was not the missing dog. And 10 years
later, I still have that dog, but the dog came. So everybody thought really the worst. You find
the dog without her seven miles away. That is really far distance for a dog. She is not sighted
anywhere around there. There are no sightings. The search
in that area doesn't turn up anything for her. And so it seemed as if she had been taken from
the area at some point and the dog dropped. That's what the worst fears were that everybody had.
And of course, to you, Mr. Johnson, she is missing out of the Houston, Texas area. And there's a very high crime rate in Houston and she is on
foot. And you're telling me other than being seemingly disoriented and confused, you did not
see any outward or visible signs of injury. Is that correct? Correct. Not at all. None at all. She seemed to be fine.
But again, I'll know more later on.
So I can't definitively.
Yes, you will.
Yeah, we don't know what she's been through.
Michael Evinez joining us, former Houston homicide detective, now PI at Y2 Investigations.
Houston has a very, very high crime rate, including
gangs. And this young girl was gone
with her dog on foot
and spotted, confirmed spotted
nearly 10 miles away,
having been on foot.
That would run a chill down anybody's
spine. That leads me
to a conclusion, Nancy, that
she had some possible outside help.
She's been gone for a while.
You know,
I don't know if there's any movement on her bank account,
but you can assure that the police will comb through
her finances, her bank account records,
her social media,
her cell phone records, and
everything. So they're going to do a pretty thorough
investigation to try to get to the bottom of what happened
to her exactly, including
her mental state.
The headline, the banner now, is one we hardly ever get to report.
Christina has been found alive.
Mr. Johnson, where are you going now? Well, I need to take Max back home and get him in a warm place.
It's kind of raining pretty bad out here right now.
And I'm going to go ahead and feed him. And once I drop him off, I'll be pretty much headed that
way towards the hospital. They wanted me to give some time. So I'm going to give him some time to
get everything situated. So my next stop is back home to drop Max off. Mr. Johnson, Godspeed.
Godspeed, man.
Our prayers still with your daughter and your wife and you.
What a day.
Thank you.
What a day in criminal justice.
This beautiful young woman has been found alive.
All I can say is praise the Lord.
Yeah, and if I can say I want to give thanks to the Texas EquiSearch, Houston Police Department. They all been great. They did an
outstanding job of dotting their I's, crossing their T's, checking the blocks and putting the
flyer out and putting the words out. And also Channel 2, the news, they did a great job. And
I just want to thank all you guys
for your effort. And I'm happy to have a happy ending. But again, I really appreciate all you
guys and all your efforts. Mr. Johnson, thank you for saying that. And you were so right.
Texas Ecosearch, once again, coming through to help people. And we always hear bad stories about the police. Finally, I'm hearing good
things about the police and very well deserved. Stay in touch. Godspeed. Goodbye, friend.
You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.