Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BREAKING: Police Arrest Architect for Gilgo Beach Serial Murders

Episode Date: July 17, 2023

Police have arrested a prominent New York architect in connection with the Gilgo Beach serial killings. Rex Heuerman,59, is charged in the murders of Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello.    The women's remains were found along Gilgo Beach in Long Island within 500 feet of each other. However, investigators have found a total of six other women, a man, and a toddler deceased on the beach, totaling eleven bodies.  The four murder victims dubbed the Gilgo Four, were found wrapped in burlap.  Heuermann, who claims he is innocent, is charged so far with three counts of first-degree murder and three counts of second-degree murder. More charges are expected. Joining Nancy Grace Today: John Ray - Attorney for family of Shannan Gilbert Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills): Twitter: @DrBethanyLive    Deputy Police Commissioner Anthony M. Carter - Suffolk County Police Department Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University; Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Twitter: @JoScottForensic Todd G. Shipley, CFE, CFCE - Cyber crime expert, Author: “Investigating Internet Crimes: An Introduction to Solving Crimes in Cyberspace;" Twitter: @webcase Toby Wolson - Forensic Consultant Specializing in DNA, Serology and Bloodstain Pattern Analysis Kristin Thorne- Investigative Reporter for WABC Channel 7 Eyewitness News in New York, and Host of Hulu’s true-crime show, “Missing;" @KristinThorne on Facebook, Twitter, Insta, Threads, & LinkedIn  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A devil walking amongst us. And of course, the devil is so genius, he can look just like us. He can look just like that neighbor down the street, the one with the wife and the two kids, and the architectural firm in Manhattan. That guy. I am talking about none other than the alleged Long Island serial killer, Rex Heuermann, a very well-respected architect, now behind bars in the deaths of at least three, and I believe many more women connected in time, in location, many of them sex workers, all of them daughters, mothers, sisters, girlfriends.

We've waited a long time for this day to come, for the Long Island serial killer to be unmasked, for the devil that he is. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to this. It is one of the most baffling serial murder cases in modern American history. Centered on this lonely stretch of sand

on the south shore of Long Island, New York. Gilgo Beach, a small community with a big mystery on its hands. The bodies of 15 brutally murdered young women. And there seems to be a pattern. Many of them under 5 feet tall and less than 100 pounds. All dumped in the surrounding dunes over a period of 20 years. There's been some new developments in the Gilgo investigation. Last night, a little bit around 8.30 p.m. in the vicinity of 35th and 5th Avenue in the city,

members assigned to the Gilgo Beach Task Force did place one individual under arrest. After years of searching and fear, years of true crime hobbyists and their theories, Rex, did you do it? it turned out the suspected Gilgo Beach killer was hiding in plain sight the whole time. 59-year-old Rex Heuermann, a suburban husband, father of two, and cops say... There's a demon that walks among us. A predator that ruined families. If not for the members of this task force, he would still be on the streets today.

You darn right. If not for this newly formed task force instituted by the new elected district attorney, this guy would still be walking free and I guarantee you would still be killing. And I've got facts to support that theory. You were just hearing our friends at Crime Watch Daily, WABC 7, and the Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison with me, an all-star panel. But first, I want to go to a special guest joining us, Anthony M. Carter. This is the Deputy Police Commissioner in Suffolk County. Deputy Commissioner, man, it's been a long time coming. I want to hear your reaction to the arrest of a prominent architect, a father, a husband.

It's kind of hard to believe, but you guys have known for some time and keeping it on the down low what was happening because you had intel. This guy was watching the police's every move. Yeah, it has. It's been for over a year now something that we've been working on, working on tirelessly. And it really, you know, it all began when Commissioner Harrison took office here at the Suffolk County Police Department. And one of his top priorities was the Gilgo Beach investigation. And he had a vision as, you know, the former chief of detectives of the NYPD, former chief of department, and the experience that he had. One of the things he knew is that

we needed to get a fresh look at the case. and we needed to get our law enforcement partners involved. And Commissioner Harrison created this task force, called it the Gilgo Beach Task Force, and it comprised of investigators from the state police, the district attorney's office, the sheriff's department. You know, you cut out on me right there for a second, but I think you said the FBI. And in the past, before the new regime, there was a lot of resistance to bringing in the FBI. But when you've got women dying, going missing, and now all these bodies turning up unsolved. Hey, you know what? I'm happy for all the help I can get every single day.

So I just congratulate you and your commissioner, Harrison, on this arrest. And it was a joint effort. And, you know, I like that about you and your boss. You don't try to hog the limelight or say it's all about you. You really always give the credit to everyone involved. And you know, standing by right now, Kristen Thorne is with me, very well-known investigative reporter, ABC Channel 7 Eyewitness News, host of Hulu's new crime show, Missing. Kristen, it's great to have you and you have stood by. You and I both have plotted around there at the beach looking for clues, trying to find answers. Can you believe

we finally got an arrest? And I got to tell you, Kristen, just in time, because this POS, technical legal term, was just caught on camera at a cell phone store paying in cash, from what I can tell, for more burner phone minutes. That's his M.O. You want to tell me this guy's out of business? O-H-E-L-L-N-O. He's still at it, Kristen. Yeah, Nancy, and I think that's what's really scary about this entire situation and why law enforcement decided it was time. Look, they wanted to have Maureen Brainerd Barnes included in this indictment, and she is absolutely mentioned in this indictment. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, lady. Back it up. You're going warp four before we can get there. There's so many bodies, but you often hear of the Gilgo Four. Correct me if I'm wrong, Kristen, but you are correct.

The Gilgo Four were all found in burlap bags, similarly bound, naked, having been sex assaulted, which really links them together. Right now, this architect, this dad, this husband is charged with six counts, three murders, three felony murder charges, three second degree murder charges, three victims. But it's just a matter of days, I believe, before he's charged with the fourth. Then we got to deal with all the other dead bodies. But you refer to a woman, Brainerd Barnes, Maureen Brainerd Barnes barnes age 25 he's the prime suspect and she's number four in the gilgo four did i make that clear yes okay go ahead yes and so the the law enforcement knew that they had to get him now because they were worried about what he may do

next what he was looking on his phone i mean creepy dude Kristen creepy dude you know my daughter and my son they'll see they're just 15 they'll see somebody go okay that's a creepy dude right there tell us Kristen about this creepy dude going up to a woman in a park setting in the last couple of months and completely skeeving her out. He was walking around and she was in the woods. It's a nice wooded park in Massapequa Park. And she was walking around and he, as she says, came up behind him and was asking about her boyfriend. And, you know, he's a very big man. Six four. Hey, what do you put him at, Anthony Carter? Guys, I'm speaking to Anthony Carter,

but he is the Deputy Police Commissioner. I mean, I'm acting like I'm sitting here having a cup of coffee with this guy. He's been on this from the get-go since he came in and they formed the new task force. How much does this guy weigh? What would you put him at, 240? Yeah, I mean, he's a very large

individual. I would definitely say yeah right around there around that 240 pound mark uh very just very just an oversized you know very large man and you know yeah i mean i know everybody's seen that youtube video you know uh and where he's towering over the person that's uh conducting the interview with him yeah nothing like that dr bethany marshall to make your first move on a lady to try to get a date is to sneak up behind her at cowering over the person that's conducting the interview with him. Yeah, nothing like that, Dr. Bethany Marshall. To make your first move on a lady to try to get a date is to sneak up behind her at a park and start asking about her boyfriend. It reminds me of Brian Koberger. Right.

Because he, you know, the guy going on trial for the slay of four beautiful Idaho University students. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Dr. Bethany Marshall with me. We're now on Psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills at drbethanyMarshall.com. Because he would go up, Koberger would go up to women at bars and go, hey, what's your home address and phone number? Of course, the women would run as if they had seen a monster rearing its ugly head. Like this guy. You go up to a woman in a park, sneak up behind her and go, hey, who's your boyfriend? I would run.

Nancy, what it tells me is that he was constantly trolling for victims. And as a part of trolling for victims, he had this whole list of questions. I mean, number one would be, hey, do you have a boyfriend? Who's your boyfriend? The reason for that is, who is he going to have to separate the woman from? Does she have family? Does she have people who's interested in her? And if so, it's going to make it more difficult to kidnap, sex assault her. Secondly, he's looking for women who are quite short, who are petite, women he can easily handle, easily, you know, kidnap and transport from one area to another. And then he actually probably has many other aspects of his victim profile that are going to come out during the course of this investigation, especially as it pertains to his online searches. Maybe underage

kids, twinks was one of the things I heard, you know, young. Hi, what was the last thing you said? Twinks. You need to tell everybody what that means. Okay. A twink is a young man who looks very feminine, usually underweight, very small, and the old fashioned word for them is twink. So that was one of his victim profiles that he was looking for was these kinds of young men. Hey, guys, this includes you, Kristen Thorne, Toby Wilson, Todd Shipley, Joe Scott Morgan, Deputy Commissioner Carter, Dr. Bethany, John Ray, the lawyer for the family of Shannon Gilbert.

She may not be connected to Heuermann. We don't know that yet. But it's because of her that all of these bodies were found. She's dead. She was killed there on Long Island, and I believe it hadn't been for her body being discovered. We may never have found the other bodies. That said, everybody jump in whenever you have a thought, but you hear Dr. Bethany Marshall correctly describing the fact of these Google searches we have just learned about. The police, of course, knew about it. With me, Todd Shipley, cybercrime expert, author of Investigating Internet Crimes.

You can find him at darkintel.info. Todd, just follow up, please, with what Dr. Bethany just said about this guy's perverted Google searches. I'm sure you've seen them, right? Sure. I think what's important is the fact that that was available once they identified the suspect and they were able to go to Google and subpoena them because they did over 300 subpoenas early on. So there's a lot of information that we still don't know about yet. But once they started looking at this guy, it was pretty evident that he was the one because the searches were evident looking for information about the case. He was trying to find out what the law enforcement

agencies knew about him and what they were divulging online and how much information was there. And he was doing, you know, his dating and all the other things that go along with what was happening so it was pretty apparent you know once they started looking at his searches that this was a person of interest for them and it's pretty telling that there's that much information about us when we start thinking about you know evidence online and what we do. You know what? That's perfectly put. But if I were putting this to a jury, I'd say it's something more like blonde girl crying being raped, black slave girl being raped,

America's five most notorious old cases, why hasn't Long Island serial killer been caught why could law enforcement not trace calls made by Long Island serial killer I mean who would know to ask that particular question except for the Long Island serial killer exactly I mean when I would think about the Long Island serial killer I would have so many thoughts, so many questions. But I didn't know at the time, because people like Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter kept it so secret, as he should have, I didn't know about the use of burner phones. Well, somebody did.

This guy was looking up, why can't they trace his burner phones? No, I mean, that's specifically what they ended up doing. Because if you look at how they started the pieces together, which was brilliant by the agents that were involved, they and officers, they started to find those pieces and they started to relate to, you know, proving the negative. Who was around those burner phones when they had the geolocation that they had from 10 years ago and so the fact they went back and looked at all that evidence and started to prove that the target was close by you know those same phone calls was a brilliant move to prove that he did it and then they were able to go back after you know his phones himself and starting to look at what's there now what's going to be interesting too is the digital evidence that they find in the search of his house

i can't wait to see what they found in his computer because that's going to be interesting, too, is the digital evidence that they find in the search of his house. I can't wait to see what they found in his computer because that's going to be telling, too. Other searches, and I want to go to John Ray, the family lawyer for victim Shannon Gilbert. I know that Shannon's family has been tortured, especially when they see this guy's searches, which say things like blonde hair girl, young, depressed, teen girl, oiled bodies, nude slave girls. I have to leave out some of this because even I wouldn't say it. Blank shot and crying porn, girl hogtied torture porn, skinny redhead tied tied up porn short fat girl tied up porn tied up and raped porn as dr bethany pointed it out asian twink tied up porn tied slave force fed okay i'm not gonna finish that one i mean, teen girl begging for rape porn. Pretty girl with bruised face porn. My mouth feels filthy.

I need to go wash it out with soap. This was what is on his Google searches. John Ray, now Shannon's family has to read this and only imagine what Shannon may have or the other victims put up with what they endured, what they lived through before they died. I want to vomit. I can play. Everybody does. I think this monster, this giant monster who I characterize as Tyrannosaurus Rex, his image is now frozen in the minds of the Gilbert family.

And I also represent Jessica Taylor's family. And the same, they had the same reaction. 20 year old Jessica Taylor also found there along the beach. Go ahead. Yeah. And, and the,

the, these families having this image now that that's frozen in their mind that he is a killer i there's no way to be sure that he had anything to do with shannon gilbert at this point we're we're looking hard at that but um as we speak but you know just the image itself of what happened and when you take what we do know of what happened to shannon uh that the night that early morning that she disappeared, we know that she was under a threat from somebody like him, either he himself or somebody like him. And there is probably more than one of them. But we're still very optimistic now and delighted

that Ray Tierney, the district attorney, and Rodney Harrison, the police commissioner, finally put together the agencies that weren't working together so that this can be done. So we're looking forward. We think that there's a really good chance that Tyrannosaurus Rex killed the others as well because he was a hunter. And hunters, he was a proficient hunter they have tools and they take apart their animals so he's certainly capable of having dismembered these these others that are there um so of course and you know another issue kristin thorne joining me investigative reporter wabc star of hulu's true crime show missing kristin just because he ran out of burlap bags okay that does not mean he's not connected to all the other bodies and i'm telling you kristin

there are more victims there are more victims you know nancy i think what concerns me and what has kept me up at night the last few days since this happened is not necessarily, of course, the remains that are still left to the six other remains there along Ocean Parkway on Long Island, but it's the women we haven't heard about yet, right? So in some of the cases I've covered in my show, I have some concerns and I do hope that they will be using some of the DNA evidence that they have to look at some of these other women who have disappeared in the tri-state area, who I believe and their family believes were victims of violence, one in particular who worked in the same line of work as the other women. And so that's what concerns me. Who is out there, the women or anybody else?

Because we haven't yet identified his profile, right? We know about the Gilgo Four, but we don't know who else he may have been interested in killing or where his interest, quote unquote, lie. Can I make a comment about that? Yeah, jump in, but I need to go to Anthony Carter about what they're doing right now. Bethany, hold on just a moment. Deputy Commissioner Carter, I pray to God in heaven that this new task force, and I'm sure you're not going to tell me, is comparing his DNA to every other DNA that's been found in, let's just say, the tri-state area, because once these bodies were discovered, you know he found another dumping ground. All right. Comparing his DNA, looking at who else he's been calling on his many, many, many burner phones and figuring out where he was seen in that Chevy Avalanche, which I want to ask you, Deputy Commissioner,

I happen to know that the avalanche discontinued manufacture in 2013. Yet here's an avalanche parked outside his place, I believe a relative's place. An avalanche was seen at one of the victim's homes. Let me think, I believe it was Amber Costello. Long story short, I can go on and on and on about, wow, here's the avalanche parked outside his home a few miles away from where the bodies are found. And a witness places an avalanche at one of the victim's homes. How come it took so long? But that is something for me to chew apart on another day. Just I want to know that his DNA is being compared to other DNA, especially in that tri-state area?

No, and that's a great question. And the one thing that maybe some out there may think that, you know, the arrest was made, we arrested this subject, that the task force has concluded their investigation and we're just going to go ahead and just look at Rex. The investigation, the task force is going to remain intact. They are going to continue gathering evidence in both with Rex and the Gogo Beach investigation is far from over. Okay, I'm going to take that as a yes.

Even though you're not saying yes, I'm taking it as a yes. To say, to examine every piece of evidence. That's right, though. Absolutely. Speaking of every piece of evidence, let's take a look at it. We can talk about the MO that all the women were, many of them contacted on Craigslist. They were sex workers. They were found dead in the same way.

Physical similarities. These four put in burlap bags. Disposed of on a lonely stretch of beach about 20 plus minutes away from his home at Massapequa Park. But what about the evidence? The hard evidence? Take a listen to our cut 3G

our friends at ABC7. Prosecutors say the smoking gun was a pizza crust. Police dug through Heuermann's trash, matching DNA from a partially eaten slice to previously unidentified hairs found on three of the Gilgo victims. Today, they booked Heuermann on murder charges accused in the deaths of Melissa Bartholomew,

Megan Waterman, and Amber Lynn Costello. And he's a prime suspect in the deaths of Melissa Bartholomew, Megan Waterman, and Amber Lynn Costello, and he's a prime suspect in the death of a fourth, Maureen Brainerd Barnes. Okay, let's talk about the hard DNA evidence. Evidence from a hair. One of those hairs was found at the bottom of one of the burlap bags that one of the victims were discarded in. Also, apparently, and correct me if I'm wrong, jump on it, Kirsten Thorne, three victims had the defendant's wife's hair on them. Obviously, a transfer from her to him and from him onto the victim. So that's at least four pieces of DNA that we know of. Then one of the victims was tied up with a leather belt. Hopefully, maybe DNA, touch DNA was taken off of that. Am I missing any DNA, Kristen? No, that sounds, that is absolutely

correct. But I would love to talk about the wife's hair. Sure. Because I've got a professor of forensics with me and a forensic consultant specializing in DNA waiting to jump on this. Because this, this is going to get him in addition to all of the circumstantial evidence. Tell me, Kristen. Here's my question. And I would love to hear from you, Nancy, and from your experts. To me, finding the wife's hair on up on each time and again i am not implying anything about her i'm trying to actually go through how this happened does anybody have any thoughts on that i've got a thought but i'll bring in the experts a transfer just like, okay, just a few minutes ago, right before we went to air,

my co-worker, Sydney, handed me a big stack of papers to go through, about three minutes before we started, and she leaned over me with her long blonde hair. And I turned, I guarantee you, some piece of hair or some something brushed up against my jacket, and it's there. Okay, you know who loves talking about this? Joe Scott Morgan. of hair or some something brushed up against my jacket and it's there okay you know who loves talking about this just got Morgan he loves what's your you have some quote you always start with why I okay I'll let you tell it just got

Morgan with me professor forensic Jacksonville State University and I've got to tell you I've been to their CREM Pro building and facilities. That's an incredible program, Joe Scott. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet and host of a hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Go ahead. No action. Doesn't leave a trace. What's the rest

of that? LeCard's principle. Every contact leaves a trace and it is the cornerstone that we work from in forensics. And that axiom is over 100 years old. And it still applies. Tell it, Joe Scott. Preach it.

Preach it, brother. Because this guy is going down because of this DNA. And when I think of these computer searches and him acting out those horrible, horrible, evil computer searches. All of these ladies, to hell with him. Now I've got to figure out a way to prove it. Hit it. Let me give you a hellscape here, and I think that it exists in that house. And this is my supposition here.

You know, we were speaking just a moment ago about the transfer of the wife's hair. You know, you mentioned Sydney in the studio. What space do you guys share? Probably on a daily basis when you're laying down sound. It's in that studio. Okay. So within that environment, you kind of coexist in that environment. I am very curious, Nancy, relative relative to the accused were any of these

victims brought back to this home that's such a good idea joe scott because remember joe scott many of these and jump in anthony carter deputy commissioner and kristin thorne because you may know better than joe scott and i many of these murders occurred while his wife was gone, and she has very distinct hair. She is Icelandic. So her DNA is going to be very identifiable, and this is mitochondrial DNA, which comes from your mother only. So anybody jump in with a thought? Bethany, I promise I'm circling back. This is Toby.

First of all, the hair, I was a forensic hair examiner for a short time also. The average person that has hair loses about 100 hairs a day randomly. So the hair connection on just the one victim would be coincident, could be called coincidence. On three victims, it becomes more of a pattern. But the locations of the hairs, because of that, if she rode in the avalanche, if it was on his clothing, if he took any of the victims home, all those are reasonable explanations for where the hairs that the DNA was done on came from because of the fact that we lose hair so easily so that connection you know is is more open to interpretation where you come from it's very probable because he transported them or may have

transported them in the avalanche that the hairs were were on him or in that vehicle and that's where the transfer occurred. Or if the furloughed bags came from his home, they could have been transferred there. But hair transfers are a common thing, and it makes it harder to interpret what's going on because of how common it is. But I agree with you. You're hearing Toby Wilson, forensic consultant specializing in DNA, serology, bloodstain at noslowforensic.com. Well, he's right, of course, Joe Scott Morgan. But three hairs, as Kristen Thorne pointed out, each one on a different victim. I want to explore your theory that these victims may have been taken to his home. I mean, when you've got three hairs on three different victims, the only thing the defense can do now is an OJ defense.

It was planted. I mean, let me hear your theory, Joe Scott. Well, this is one thing that I'm very encouraged by and that these folks are doing is that I saw these images on the news of the police, the investigators going in and out of that home. And Nancy, I hope they retain this place and take it down to the damn studs that everything that they can harvest out of that environment from an evidentiary standpoint is going to be acquired. Here's one more thing, and I'll be quiet. I don't want you to be quiet. Here's one more thing and I'll be quiet. I don't want you to be quiet. I love everything you're saying. It's something that really sent a chill up my,

up my spine and maybe it's maybe, maybe it's a wild goose chase, but this one victim, I was looking at this charging document that's mentioned the Marine, Ms. Marine Brainerd Barnes. And one thing that kind of sent a chill up my spine Was that this burner phone That the accused had

Or that he is alleged to have had Had contacts with Maureen's phone 16 times Nancy, over a period of time From July the 6th to July the 9th Okay, they have her phone Finally dropping Off the face for a while

And there's like a couple of days Of lag in there They have her phone finally dropping off the face for a while. And there's like a couple of days lag in there. But then here's the chilling part. He apparently, the perpetrator, opened her phone up again and began to check her messages. Let me ask you something. Nancy, would you just blindly give without any kind of fighting back? Would you give somebody the code to your cell phone to check your messages? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I don't know about the other folks on the panel, but how did he get that information from her in order to get in to her voicemail to check it if that is true what they're alleging and that to me is chilling that to me shows that

he may have been in control of that person in particular about the rest of them i have no idea well all you've got to do is look at his google searches joe Scott and figure. And I can tell you, I mean, he looks up hog tying, raping woman. And obviously he is fixated on torture. I mean, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you don't see that kind of Google search every day. And I've looked at plenty of people's computers in their searches. No, absolutely not. And to frame our discussion, if you think of this guy as a combination of an obsessive sex addict who thrives off power and inflicting pain in order to enhance his sexual arousal, his victim profile is going to keep changing as he goes to more and more extreme types of pornography and more different

types of victims in order to enhance the sexual arousal. So maybe he starts with someone within his own race, an age mate, then he goes to a younger person, then a smaller person, then a bigger person, then a man, then a woman, then a child. And so I think that the complication and why the investigation is going to have to focus so much on the data and the science is this guy is going to find anything in order to increase his sexual arousal and not just finding different victims, but stalking them, toying with them, perhaps taking them back to

his house. You know, this is not a one and done kind of guy where maybe someone looks at pornography, masturbates, closes the computer. This is a guy who's going to get as much sexual satisfaction out of any one victim as possible. So it's multiple assaults against one victim over an extended period of time. Which goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's theory that some of the victims may have been taken to the home because an extended period of time assault probably would not take place in a vehicle, i.e. the Chevy Avalanche, but somewhere like a home or a motel room. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Anthony Carter joining us, Deputy Police Commissioner.

Deputy Commissioner, I don't know if you can comment on this, but can you describe how his DNA was obtained off a pizza crust? During surveillance, you know, he was being observed and there was an opportunity where he had discarded a, I guess, like a small personal pizza box into a garbage in the city and our undercovers were able to retrieve that box. And just to go back on a point to, you know, whether, you know, his home may have been involved in the location of the homicides. The one thing that we can say is that it's not a coincidence that his wife and family were away in three of the murders. And we're taking, you know, like I said, active investigation. We're at the home. I think somebody had mentioned on the call here that we're taking the house. We should take the house.

And I think that is the plan to get every piece of evidence that we can possibly get while we're inside of that home. With me, Deputy Commissioner Anthony Carter from Suffolk County Police. I've got to tell you something, Deputy Commissioner. I'm the first one to scream when police screw up an investigation because it hurts me as a former prosecutor and a crime victim myself. But I am so impressed with your surveillance of Heerman, your identification of him.

I know it's been a long time coming, but this is a fresh homicide task force. This is a whole new look, because this case was ignored by prior administrations. You guys come in there like a barn on fire. You find this guy, you surveil him, you re-look at the evidence. Then you catch him discarding a pizza crust and get his DNA, which matches up to other DNA. You get his wife's DNA.

Do we have any idea? Can you comment on how you did that, Deputy Commissioner? So same, you know, same methodology in trying to obtain abandonment samples. You know, very similar fashion where we were able to obtain recycled cans from their, you know, from where they live. So that's how you got the wife's DNA. That's correct. Wow. There's so much.

I hardly know which way to go, but let me understand something. Kristen Thorne, anybody on the panel that knows the answer to this, the way I'm reading the affidavit and other information was this idiot actually traveling with a burner phone and his own private mobile phone together like coberger you know you can see him traveling away from the crime scene did that happen does anybody know well we know that they certainly there are they certainly track the burner phones relationship and location near massapequa park as well as his Midtown office. And they called that the box.

They that was the for the point that they used to triangulate, although in that word, it would be three sides, but the box would be four to really, you know, pinpoint that his locations where he was, where he lives, where he works. We're also coordinating with the hits from these burner phones. Okay, break that down to regular people talk. This is Todd. So I think what's significant is what she's saying and what they alleged in the court documents is that

they found no instance where the suspect was in a separate location from the other cell phones when the communications occurred, when he was talking to them from the burner phones and so that's significant that they tied them together from those cell dollar records that his phone was there and the burner phone was there and in instances outside of the calls his phone you know was was not there so it's pretty significant okay that is entirely significant um to Anthony Carter, Deputy Police Commissioner, what do you make of that theory? So, you know, I think when we talk about some of the locations that we talked about, you know, the burner phones versus his phone, and trying to tie

that all in, I think it was, you know, it was challenging because we were looking at an area of over 1,500 homes that also included a portion of the Massapequa Preserve. And that also then opens up, which are hitting those cell towers, to people that may or may not even live in Massapequa or may not even live in nassau county so i mean that is one of the things behind uh the exhaustive effort committed by the members of the task force to try to drill down and get the the right information so that and the right evidence uh to you know move us forward in the case kristen thorn wabc 7. What can you tell me about recent revelations of a storage unit search? So we know that there is an active investigation right now around a storage unit on Long Island. And for all we know, and we believe that it is connected to this investigation. You know, I think what they're going to be looking for, and I also

noticed in the indictment, and we talk about his house and how they do need to and are going to tear apart that house, there were items missing from the victims. So jewelry, some pieces of clothing, those are things that would probably be familiar to the family that the family told them she used to always wear this necklace, this bracelet, that's very common, we find. And so those things were missing. And so those things were missing. And so those are the things that they're going to be looking for in the house and in this potential storage unit. This is rapidly developing, but for right now, a suspect in custody in the Long Island serial killings. We wait as the evidence unfolds. Goodbye, friend.

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