Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Brian Laundrie Captured in Family Camping Selfie?

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

As the search for Brian Laundrie continues, citing of the man are coming into authorities. A family camping in the Fort De Soto area may have caught Laundrie in the background of their selfie and another man says he saw Laundrie sullen and drinking in a bar, near Yellowstone National Park. Meanwhile, the FBI is searching the camping area around Fort De Soto.Joining Nancy Grace today: Dale Carson - Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Dr. Jorey Krawczyn Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide” (October 2021) bw-institute.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Michael Ruiz - Reporter, Fox News Digital, Twitter: @MikeRreports Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Was Brian Laundrie captured in an unintended selfie at Fort DeSoto campgrounds? This is after Gabby Petito is killed, her body decomposing in Wyoming, a whole country far, far away. He's on a camping trip with his parents. Is it true that his parents specifically signed into DeSoto campgrounds for a waterfront slot? Is that the key to Brian Laundrie's disappearance? Regarding the selfie, take a listen to this. Sightings about Laundrie's whereabouts are literally all over the map. John Walsh, host of In Pursuit, says he has tips showing Laundrie is hiding out in Mexico or the Bahamas or the Appalachian Trail. A new witness is coming forward to say he encountered Laundrie drinking alone at this Bullwinkle's restaurant in Montana on August 26th, the night before Gabby was last seen alive.

It was almost like he was sulking or mad or in deep thought about something. I really didn't pay him that much attention until he spoke up. And then it was aggressive and made a comment about stupid Southerners. Okay. Did he just say made a comment about stupid Southerners? Well, here's my big question. All us stupid Southerners? Right, so. Well, here's my big question. All us stupid Southerners are wondering who killed Gabby

and then went camping on a pleasure trip with his parents a whole country away. That's what us stupid Southerners are wondering right now. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. From being caught sulking at Bullwinkle's restaurant the night before Gabby was last seen alive. Another couple has come forward in Florida saying they captured him unintentionally in a selfie. So you've been wondering where he is. Apparently, we've got photographic proof with me, an all-star panel. First of all, high-profile lawyer joining me out of Jacksonville, former FBI agent Dale Carson.

Police psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University. Consultant with Blue Wall Institute. Author of Operation SOS. Dr. Jory Croson. Founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Joining us, Cheryl McCollum at coldcasecrimes.org, Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand new hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. But first,

to Michael Ruiz, reporter, Fox News Digital, who's been camped out down at North Port, Florida. You know, Michael Ruiz, just when you think everything's going cold, something else happens. Let's just start with the unintentional selfie. What happened? So this family was camping at the same campground as Brian Laundrie when he came home from Wyoming in Gabby Petito's van without Gabby. His family decided to pack up, go on a little beachfront camping trip. And that campground, it's a pretty popular campground. I was just there the other day.

There's a lot of people there. The campsites are actually very close to each other, and they're kind of small. So if you're doing something next to the other campsite, there's a good chance that you're going to be, you know, in the background of their pictures. And that's exactly what these people say happened. It's a little hard to 100% identify the person in the background as Brian Laundrie, but it's the right time and the right place. And it does look a lot like him.

And the right truck and the right camper, according to eyewitnesses. Let's just go straight out to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Let's look at the timing. Everybody, Michael Ruiz, special guest joining us from Fox today, saying that there very possibly is a selfie of Brian Laundrie there at Fort DeSoto. My first question to you in general is why does this family capture him on surveillance video, in other words, a selfie, and the surveillance video we think of them driving in and out if there's a camera, and the feds don't know about it.

How does this family, some campers, and Dog the Bounty Hunter, ferret out this location and the feds don't? Question one. Question two, and possibly more important cheryl mccollum a waterfront spot i mean when i take the twins camping and i usually get it ahead of time because that's what i put in my book don't be a victim plan it ahead of time um i try to get a waterfront spot if there is, if there's a lake, we camp there. But in this case, it takes on new significance.

Were they planning his getaway via waterfront? Your first question, the answer could very well be there are a lot of people that had much rather talk to somebody like Dog the Bounty Hunter than an FBI agent. Some people just do not feel comfortable talking to law enforcement. Maybe they have a background themselves. Maybe they feel like, hey, Dog's going to make me famous, or maybe he can get me a reward. The second thing is we don't know that the FBI doesn't know it. They are close, you know, they're holding everything pretty close, which I believe they should. But again, if this is him, then we know exactly where he was on September 6th and the time of day. Can we go to the waterfront slip now?

Yes. To me, I'm just like you, Walt and I always get waterfront if we can, if it's available. It could be that or, again, it could be let's test this raft we got or this boat or can you hit that waterway just right at the right time to take you to a little deserted island that y'all know about. It could be one or the other. Let's go straight out to Michael Ruiz standing by in Florida. What can you tell me about this selfie? We believe Brian Laundrie is picked up in a couple

selfie at the Florida campsite 75 miles away from his home days before Gabby Petito was reported missing. Gee, I think I know what they're talking about around the campfire, how to cover up Gabby's death. Now, the lawyer for the family, Michael Ruiz, has confirmed that the family stayed there. And I'm looking right at the selfie. And it's him. It looks like him. And the baggy shorts that come down to his knees. A light-colored shirt.

Loping across in the background. I'm sure you've seen it. What do you know, Michael? Well, we know from his lawyer, like you just mentioned, that he was there. The lawyer confirmed he was there on the 6th and the 7th of September. We actually have obtained the log keeping book from the park, which shows the Laundrie family checked in under Roberta Laundrie's name.

That's Brian's mother. She checked in on September 6th, and she checked out on September 8th. And according to their lawyer, they all checked out together. According to other sources, maybe they didn't. Maybe only two of them left, but we're still looking into that. But this does tell us that Brian Laundrie was 100 percent in that park while Gabby Patito was missing in the wilderness of Wyoming and probably dead. To Dale Carson, high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville and former FBI agent. Dale, I wonder if the family isn't leaving the home so they can talk freely away from any concern about wiretaps, bugs, surveillance in their home. What do you think?

I absolutely agree with you. I mean, the government has the capacity to monitor structures remotely, and certainly that is a possibility. Well, when you say things like monitor structures remotely, aren't you just talking about a bug? There's one in every U.S. embassy around the world. What are you talking about? I'm talking about lasers. You put a laser up against a piece of glass and it'll catch the vibration from the conversations inside the room. And, you know, straight out to you, Joe Scott Morgan, the way that wiretaps, bugs, laser listening is conducted, it's almost undetectable. So if you want to have a private conversation and you think you're, I'll just say, bugged, and that covers the whole gamut of listening devices, the only place to go is out in nature.

I mean, you know, I've actually had cases, Joe Scott, where police, not necessarily the feds, but local police would go and bug the grave of the victim, would bug the fire escape outside the defendant's apartment because they go out there to smoke or they go to the grave and unload their conscience. You can put bugs under the law out in the open anywhere a private individual can be standing. You can stick a bug. You sure can. How does it work? Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things you're thinking about, you know, you're talking about out of the graves, you're thinking about spontaneous utterances.

You know, these things that you don't suspect that anybody else is listening. And, of course, they're hot on your tail there. And so, yeah, electronically, when these things are planted either in a hardline phone or perhaps they're listening in over wireless, anything, if they have a warrant for this, they can record this and then feed it back. They'll actually, I've seen these before, they actually have a typed out statement, you know, relative to each one, a transcript, if you will, like we use in television. And you'll see this. You'll see this. And it really paints this this picture. So you have a reasonable expectation of privacy within your own home. They have to get a warrant for that. But if you're out in public, all bets are off at that point in time.

Exactly. Look look just look at the look at the mobsters over the years where they go outside they even use lip readers and carl i mean i'm sorry dale can probably speak to this these guys would go outside and they put their hands over their mouths so that you can't actually see what their lips are doing so yeah you know they know even the mob knows knows that anybody can be listening and watching at any point in time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let's bring in our psychologist, Dr. Jory Croson. Dr. Jory, thank you for being with us. And also, I think there is, you know, just think it through. Gabby is decomposing out in Wyoming and Brian Laundrie knows it and

therefore his parents know it. So if they have any concern, have you ever noticed how paranoid like dope dealers are? Hey, forget dope dealers. There are parents of children that go to school with our children that are convinced the federal government's listening in on them. And they refuse to have an Alexa. They have all sorts of safety devices on their home internet. My theory is if the feds want to listen to you, they're going to find a way. So you know what? Have at it. Listen all you want to about David and arguing with me about who's going to clean out the

guineas that morning, the guinea pig cage. So have at it. Go crazy. But my point is, if they know Gabby is out there decomposing, their son comes all the way across the country undetected, never reports a thing, of course they're going to go camping because they're paranoid. They're probably convinced they're being listened in on. And by they probably are dr jory yeah i think by now uh when that camping trip started that was to get out and either initiate a plan to get him gone because definitely he disappeared after that point and and i could see i'm familiar with de

soto park down there in that part of florida and right there with a waterfront, it'd be easy to get to a boat in the bay and then come out of Tampa Bay and get right into the Gulf and go anywhere from there. So what do you think, Cheryl McCollum? Do you think they were hatching a getaway spot from right there? Honey, there ain't no doubt in my mind. Of course. I think they went to, like you said said huddle up be together be without any distractions nobody's coming to the door because again they're paranoid they don't know when law

enforcement's coming with a warrant they think it's coming any day so they're hiding so they're not going to be able to know where they are in that moment so they can just have all this time to plot scheme and, and plan. There's no question. From the minute he returned on the 1st to the 7th, they're planning. And then he goes on the hiking trip where they give him a four-day head start. And let me say one thing about Mexico. If he was headed to Mexico, why would he drive all the way across the state of Texas

and never take a hard right and go there? Yeah, good point. Well, I think you wanted to come home and huddle with mommy and daddy. Correct. Hold on. Michael Ruiz joining us from Fox Digital there on the scene. Michael, did they go camping there twice or once? That's what we're still trying to figure out.

Now, we had intelligence that we got basically handed over to us from Dog the Bounty Hunter that suggested they went twice. The first time would have been on September 1st to the 3rd, right when he got back into town. The second time we have confirmed is the 6th to the 8th. Now that first trip, their lawyer says they booked it and then they canceled it and then they went back the next week. So we're still kind of teasing that out. But if they had gone back twice, that raises a lot more questions about what they were doing in that campground. Guys, take a listen to our cut 198. This is Mark Wilson, Fox 13 Tampa. We are learning now about a new detail in the timeline after Brian Laundrie returned to Northport. Fox 13 has obtained a copy of the registration logs for Fort DeSoto showing a

Roberta Laundrie checking into the park on the 6th of September. Last week, neighbors told Fox News that the Laundrie family, Christopher and Roberta Laundry, and their son, Brian, appeared to go on a trip in a camper, a new camper, about a week after Brian got back to Florida. Police say he returned in Gabby's van on September 1st. And then a short time ago, the laundry family attorney confirmed all three members of the family went camping at Fort DeSoto on September 6th and left on September 7th. Together, he says, they all left the park. Okay, so Michael Ruiz, what do we know about a second trip after that where they go back and then Brian Laundrie is not seen again at the family home?

So we heard from the neighbors across the street. Their names are Bill and Charlene. And they told us that they saw the camper leave and they saw the family come back. And and the timeline, right, that we've confirmed is we know about the sixth to the eighth trip. We still don't know about a separate trip. But the lawyer then said, OK, they went other campgrounds, not Fort DeSoto. So that raises you know, that's a different trail that we were still looking into about where that might have, where they might have gone there. So you, Joe Scott Morgan, are familiar with the slips. Well, the spots down on the water where people can pull up with their camper.

Tell me about the particular spot that Roberta Laundrie signed for. Yeah, the report out of Tampa lacked one thing relative to when she signed in. It was actually slot number one, Nancy. And when you make it through the gate at DeSoto, you're going to kind of bear to the left and continue on kind of westward. And then it will be right in front. It's actually the first slot that's on the water. And let me tell you what on the water means. It's beachfront. This place actually has a beach. Now, keep in mind, the rest of this island has what are referred to as mangrove trees that kind of surround it. And they're beautiful. If you've never, I know that maybe you've been on a kayak trip, you know,

down in Florida and you can do the mangroves. And they cover you. It's like you're in a tunnel. Yeah. And but this this slip itself, slip number one, it's spot number one. It's camping spot number one. It didn't have mangroves. There's actually beachfront right there. So, you know, to my contention yesterday, I mentioned this. You can go to any box store that you want to. You can pick up a kayak if you don't. And that kayak would fit easily within that camper along with a paddle. You go there. It's on the beach. It's easy to launch. You just kind of push off and you're moving quietly, Nancy.

And there's all of these little keys out there that you can kind of plant yourself. Now, do I believe he's out there? I don't know. I think it'd be kind of hard to get by and survive and stay below the radar. But I know that from that point, you can launch out into open water. Guys, we were talking about the whereabouts of so-called boyfriend Brian Laundrie. More internet speculation has been focused on the mother of Brian Laundrie, Roberta Laundrie. Cheryl McCollum, she has been captured on video and photos as well, many times as she walks around with a cell phone. There is speculation that cell phone is actually a burner phone. How would that be visible, a regular phone versus a burner phone?

Well, a lot of people, and you can tell an iPhone, certain cases, you can see an Android. So they're going by, you know of people, and you can tell an iPhone, certain cases, you can see an Android. So they're going by, you know, the size and the shape of it. I cannot tell whether or not it's a burner phone, the way she's holding it. But I tell you what I do know. She's so worried about her son and his whereabouts. When Dog the Bounty Hunter shows up, she calls the police on him. This is somebody that's looking for her son. You know, she's so worried about everything. She won't answer calls from Gabby's family. She won't talk to the police. She won't, you know, produce her son. She won't produce his whereabouts. She won't say what she knows about Gabby. You

know, everything she has done points to her having guilty knowledge of what her child possibly, we feel like, has done to Gabby. And she has done nothing but try to protect him since he showed up on the first, if not a little before that. Hey, Mac, so she does actually know how to dial 911, right? Oh, I would imagine she not only knows to have, but is willing to do it when it's somebody that's not breaking the law at all. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Michael Ruiz joining us there in Florida. Tell us what happened when Dwayne Chapman knocks on the laundry door in his effort to help find Brian Laundrie. Well, you saw the video. He walked up, he knocked on the door, he waited patiently outside. We know they were home because we saw them pull up and we haven't seen anybody leave. And Roberto Laundrie called 911 on Dog the Bounty Hunter.

To Jory Croson, if somebody offered to find my missing son that I was worried could be committing suicide at that very minute, you think would it make sense to call the cops on that person offering to help find your son? Not at all. I would be cooperating with everybody, including the dog. You know, what's also significant, let me throw this out to Dale Carson. You know, we've talked about how criminals often return to a scene or they commit a crime somewhere where they're comfortable. And I like to use the example because it's so obvious. Scott Peterson dumped Lacey and Connor's body where he goes fishing all the time, the San Francisco Bay. So why would you commit a crime or cover up a crime somewhere where you're familiar, that you're used to, where you know, if you think it through, cops are going to look?

Same thing here. What do you make of the fact, Dale Carson, that photos have emerged of Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie at Fort DeSoto in February. They were just there a few months ago. Well, clearly he likes that area. You're entirely correct. Many individuals who commit crimes go back to the scene. They want to see what's going on. But in this case, of course, he's able to know that area pretty thoroughly. And there are a number of islands available.

There's the possible. And we talked about this before his departure for Cuba. I mean, all of those things are possible, depending on how well connected the family is to individuals who have access to that sort of travel arrangement. And it's certainly possible. This is South Florida. There are many Cuban nationals down there, and it's certainly possible they would know how to arrange something like that that puts him out of harm's way. And that's why she is not very concerned about where he is or what his status is, because she's fully aware of what his status is. One more point, Nancy. The FBI, the government now uses a device called the Stingray, which emulates a

cell phone tower. So if she's using a burner phone, that's no longer a mystery to the government. They can certainly listen in to any of that data, particularly text messages sent from that device. One of the things that alerted me to that potential of them communicating with him by email is during their trip to visit a lawyer up in Orlando, they stopped at a library. And as we all know, libraries have Internet access that typically is not trackable. And so that's an indication they may be communicating with him through some mechanism that the FBI is not even able to access at this point. Guys, take a listen to Our Cut 199. This is JJ Burton, ABC Action. While we don't know if Brian or even her husband was here with her, their lawyer confirms all three did go on this trip together. The lawyer also says that Brian

did come home with the family. Here's video Action Area 1 took above from Fort DeSoto this morning. We flew out here to see if we could see any police activity, and we didn't. We also reached out to the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office to get the surveillance video of the entrance and exits of the park. But the Sheriff's Office said they can't give us the video because it's part of an active investigation with North Port PD and the FBI. We also found out that a Pinellas County Sheriff's chopper was circling above Fort DeSoto Park last night between 11 40 p.m. until 12 40 a.m. We asked what they were doing out here and we're told it's part of an active investigation with North Port PD and the FBI. So Michael Ruiz joining us, they are taking the Fort DeSoto tips and evidence seriously.

They're out there with a chopper. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, I was there the other day when Dog was there. I was kind of shadowing his investigation and we overheard park employees admitting that the FBI went to the park and looked at the surveillance video. So that surveillance video that they wouldn't release must show something that's part of this investigation. It must have something to do with the Laundrie family coming or going. So what was the inception of reports, Cheryl McCollum, that the family went there not once, but twice? That's a report that we've been given more than once. And I think Dog went there to look to see if he could find the paperwork where you have to sign in to go in. But this is something that's important to me to point out again about his parents. They have, through their lawyer, made all these different statements about, you know, Gabby and this, that, and the other. They have yet to make a plea to their son to turn himself in.

You know, I'm interested about where you can go when you leave Fort DeSoto campgrounds. Joe Scott Morgan, Michael Ruiz, the whole panel. When you leave, if you look at a map of Fort DeScraft, what's the first thing you encounter, Joe Scott Morgan? I know that there are the many islands. I don't think that that is feasible for him because he can't live there forever and he would be spotted, depending on the size and the nature of the topography. So what's after the islands? Once you break out of the topography. So what's after the islands? Once you break out of the little inlet islands, what's next? Okay, this is going to be kind of a wild idea.

But if he went north out of that area, okay, and just stayed close to the coastline. Now, if he's in a kayak, he's going to have hell beat out of him by the surf. But if he is out in steady water and he is heading north, okay, as you head north, you're going to wind up coming close to St. Pete. Okay, St. Petersburg, Florida. And then beyond that, you got Tampa. Now, my contention, one of the things I've thought about is where can this guy go without a passport and blend in? And I think our friend Dale mentioned this the other day, and I kind of agree with him to a certain degree. I think he has an opportunity to blend in with a homeless population.

He could be under a bridge right now. And Sarasota, Tampa, and also St. Pete have large homeless populations. Do you know why? It don't get cold down there. So it attracts a lot of homeless. So he could blend in. And I just think, and if you got a pile of cash with you, you stick it in your pocket, you shave, keep your head shaved, shave that beard off, get you some grungy clothes, go to Goodwill, do whatever you got to do, and you blend in. I don't see it. I think they're trying to get him as far away and as quickly as possible, Cheryl. Nancy, he's gone. I'm telling you. In other words, they check out of the campsite on the 7th. Did mom and dad get home the 8th, the 9th? Do the neighbors know? Do we know? We don't

know anything until the 11th of September. So they could have been going anywhere in the meantime. Here's the other thing. Has he ever actually in person met with his attorney? I doubt it. They've never produced him in any way for anyone. When he goes hiking, remember, mama waited four complete days before she reported him missing. They got a plan. He's gone. He's got a water source. He's got a food source. And he's got a shelter. Guys, take a listen to ARCA 179, Sandra Smith on American Reports. The Daily Mail is reporting exclusively right now, TJ, that the best friend of Gabby Petito is saying Brian Laundrie is, quote, well equipped, she believes, to survive months in that 25,000 acre Florida nature reserve. She says he's gone off the grid before.

He's survived in these mountainous trains before by himself, and he certainly can do it again. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, so what do you need to survive under those circumstances? Out to you, Joe Scott Morgan, because I disagree that they've got him hiding in plain sight. No way. He's gone. Question, where and how did he get there? The reason I care about how he got there is because that might help me trace where he is now. Well, okay, the only other option you have if he's not on a boat is he's got

to get to a thoroughfare and something else I'd entertain the other day. And again, this is kind of a crazy notion. What if they went to a box store and bought him a mountain bike? He's staying on back roads. He's traveling across the country. He's always in motion, always in motion. He's supposed to be this great fit outdoorsman kind of guy. But again, if you're traveling down the road, you're going to pass police units. And will the police units have the awareness to recognize this guy on a bike? You know, maybe he's got spandex on. He's traveling down the road. He just looks like any other biker that's going down the road. And I'm not talking biker like motorcycle. I'm talking about like cross-country biking. Is that a potential? He's got to get to a roadway somehow.

And the trick is, what kind of conveyance did he use? You know, I mean, what are we going to say? He hopped onto a train? You know, is that even possible any longer? I don't know. I think it's going to be a roadway. If he's not on the water, he's got to be on a roadway. And listen, we all know we've all been, well, most of us have been to Florida.

It is a confluence of interstate highways. We've got 75. We've got 95. We've got all of these. There's multiple ways to get out of the state. You've got 10 up north. But think about it, Joe Scott. I don't see him renting a car and being on the interstate.

You can't drive a bike on the interstate. But one thing about a bike, Dale Carson, is you'd be wearing a helmet. Your face would be obscured. One of the things we've experienced here in Florida is that people will rent storage sheds, you know, the commercial storage sheds. And you could live in there for a protracted period of time. You'd know precisely where your son is. You could stock him with all the food you needed and he could just sit

there and wait until things calm down. And once they've calmed down, then he's able to move more freely. Guys, take a listen to our cut 185. This is from the Schmidt Family Press Conference. We haven't heard from the Laundrie family. We haven't been able to hear much from the FBI. They can't share a lot with us about Brian's whereabouts. Is there anything that you can tell us about the efforts to find him, what the family thinks about where he might be and the laundry family silence? Again, for the laundry silence, the laundries did not help us find Gabby. They sure as not going to help us find Brian. For Brian, we're asking you to turn yourself in to the FBI or the nearest law enforcement agency. You know, that just breaks my heart to hear Gabby's family begging for laundry

to turn himself in. That's where we're at right now. Laundry out in the wind. God only knows where. Michael Ruiz joining us from Florida. Michael, what is the best theory out there right now. Laundry out in the wind. God only knows where. Michael Ruiz joining us from Florida. Michael, what is the best theory out there right now and what's happening where you are? Well, I've heard a few theories. I've talked to a lot of experts about this and that, you know, everybody kind of has a different take. But one of the big ones is the Appalachian Trail. And one of the reasons is because he has a history of camping out there before. Now, you know, we know the Florida Swamp where they were looking for a couple weeks, very inhospitable.

The Appalachian Trail, he's much more comfortable there, and there are much less risks there. So if he's up there, I was speaking with sources today who told me he could have been as far as North Carolina by now. He's just hiking up the trail, laying low, staying off the beaten path. So that's one thing to look at. I really am interested in the Mexico connection because if they're looking at that park, the Fort DeSoto Park south of St. Petersburg, all he needs is a boat and he can go in any direction he wants. And we don't know where he is. So did he get a boat? That's a question that we need to

answer. Nancy, can I jump in real quick? That's something we need to look at is the tide tables. And let me tell you why. If you remember when they attempted escape from Alcatraz in 1962, Robert Shablon was an inmate, inmate 1355. And he was the only person that could read tide tables. And back then, the San Francisco Chronicle would publish them. He told the escapees, you've got to hit this tide just right, and it will help you get to the island y'all are trying to get to to get out of here. If you don't hit it right, you're going to be slammed up against the rocks and killed. So again, by them going to that campsite twice, possibly they were watching those tides. What kind of a watercraft would it be? Anybody on the panel, jump in, because I don't see it being a kayak out in the open water.

There's a lot of fishing boats right in that area, especially commercial shrimping boats that come out of the Tampa Bay. And they got access to the Gulf, and they do the deep line fishing, which puts them, you know, hundreds of miles out into the Gulf. So there's only one thing that makes me think he's not in a boat or if he was in a boat, he's no longer in a boat. It's not really his MO. We don't hear about him fishing or doing water sports. We hear about him as a survivalist in the woods. He's looking for an escape route right now.

It's not where he's going to go fishing. He's got to get out of here. Okay, what do you make of that, Joe Scott? Yeah, but you know, I'm thinking about this. I've been around a lot of shrimpers in my life, and I'm thinking, or commercial fishermen, I'm thinking what commercial fisherman in his right mind would take this guy on board unless somebody gave him a fistful of cash you know

money mitigates any problem many times not any problem but many problems is that is is that the case here and again going back to what you had said he is he is on terra firma he's he's out walking somewhere he is on the road the question is where is he headed and what path did he take is he i don't think he's necessarily on an on an interstate road nancy and keep in mind florida is replete with these damn toll booths they're everywhere you know and they've got biometric one not biomet biometrics, but they capture your picture. If he's not on that, he's got to be on country roads, back roads, getting on these county roads and kind of weaving his way through there. You know what's interesting also to Michael Ruiz, whenever it's brought up to the family lawyer, the laundry's lawyer says they don't know where he is. That may actually be true at this point, because as Cheryl McCollum says, he is long gone.

But I find it really hard to believe that mommy can cut those apron ties. I think she knows the direction where he's headed. I would be willing to bet that it's out west or the Appalachian Trail, because he loves camping out west. That's his forte. He came all the way across the country once. He could do it again. He does have that background and a lot of experience. And, you know, we can just see we can see from his social media and his camping review site that he's been at all of these places a lot. And they're certainly they're just not as dangerous as some of the

places in Florida where he might have been. And they're just not as dangerous as some of the places in Florida where he might have been. And they're definitely not as dangerous as going to Mexico, you know, where there's a bounty on his head, right? Why wouldn't someone there just grab him? Why would they let him hide out? You're kidding, right? In Mexico? They're not going to try to help us. You think so?

This is $30,000. I mean, if a regular person sees Brian Laundrie in a different country, you think they really know. Wow, there's a $30,000 reward for him. I don't think that. I mean, how long has Olivia Newton-John's boyfriend been hiding out in Mexico? He still hasn't been caught. He wears this big floppy hat everywhere he goes. Everybody sees him.

He's never been turned in. Has he been turned in yet? So, and he's high profile. Everybody knows what he looks like, or at least I do. So Laundrie could easily hide out in Mexico, but how would he get there? Okay, that's a serious question, not rhetorical. How would he get there? This is Dale.

Look, you know, Craigslist and all of those buy here, sell here sort of software programs will allow you to buy a boat. You buy a boat with a 45 horse on it and load it with fuel and just head right down up Texas and just close to the shore and all the way to Mexico if you wanted to go. Okay, Cheryl McCollum, is there any way on God's green earth that the mother is not in touch with him? Zero chance. And I'll tell you one more thing for people to think about. Remember when she finally reports him missing on the 17th? Yeah. That's the same day his sister decides to speak.

The only person in the whole family that's broken silence is her. Why? Because she was the only person we weren't looking at. She was the only person nobody had thought of. Where had she been from the 14th to the 17th? We wait as justice unfolds. Tip line 1-800-CALL-FBI, 1-800-225-5324. There's a $30,000 reward to bring in Brian Laundrie.

Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.