Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Brian Laundrie Found Dead: Is this REAL???

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

Human remains have been found in Florida's Carlton Reserve and the Laundrie family attorney says it is likely Brian Laundrie. Steve Bertolino say the area where the remains where found is the same location that Laundrie’s parents indicated to police he was headed on the last day they saw him. The FBI confirmed that articles belonging to Brian Laundrie were also found. So far, official identification of the remains has not been made. joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Mike Hadsell - President and Founder, Peace River K9 Search and Rescue, Twitter: @K9River, PRSAR.org   Mahsa Saeidi - Investigative Reporter, WFLA-TV (Tampa), Twitter/Instagram: @MahsaWho, Facebook: "WFLAMahsa" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Bombshell in the search for Brian Laundrie. Take a listen to our friends at Live Now Fox. Chris and Roberta Laundrie, the parents of fugitive Brian Laundrie, they ventured into Florida's Carlton Reserve earlier this morning where Fox News Digital saw an officer apparently telling parents that law enforcement might have found something. The lawyer for the Laundrie family would not comment when asked if the Laundries were at the park at the request of

law enforcement. Not comment? The Laundries family attorney not comment? That'll be a cold day and you know where he's doing nothing but commenting. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111, yes, a bombshell. Have remains, human remains, been found near the Carlton Reserve? How long have they been there? What other items have been found?

We believe a notebook belonging to Brian Laundrie, which is critical in this case. When did he go there? How long was he there? And did his parents somehow destroy any chance of there ever being justice in this case? The first night he went there and didn't come home. Shouldn't the cops have been called that night and a search party led to Carleton Reserve when they brought the car back home. Questions swirling with me and I'll start panel to break it down and put it back together again. First of all, Dale Carson, high profile lawyer joining me out of the Florida jurisdiction,

former fed with the FBI. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. You can find her at ColdCaseCrimes.org. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and star of an iHeart hit series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. John Elwood, special guest joining us deputy chief manatee county search and rescue and masa saidi joining us on the scene investigative reporter

wfla tv tampa take a listen now to our cut 353 mike posh in a worldwide exclusive video obtained by fox news digital shows the laundries and the law enforcement officer huddling and speaking as the officer appears to show the couple an unknown discovery. The officer appeared to tell the parents, I think we might have found something. During the couple's time inside, Chris Laundrie could be seen continually moving in and out of areas of the brush. After a short while, he and Roberta Laundrie separated with Chris and the two men moving into the brush on the left side of the trail for approximately 12 minutes. Chris returned without law enforcement and the couple continued on. Guys, how did it actually go down? How did the parents of Brian Laundrie end up in that Florida reserve? And within about an hour, evidence is found linked to Brian Laundrie and

possible human remains. Now, here is their lawyer, Steve Bertolino, at our friend's CNN outlet. Now, think about it. Bertolino did not just fall off the turnip truck. Listen to what he's saying, how his words are being parsed. Take a listen to our cut 365. Why today? Why did the parents choose today to go to the preserve? Well, it is my understanding that the preserve was only open to the public as of yesterday. So my clients reached out to me and informed me that they wanted to go into the preserve this morning.

And I thought it would be wise to notify law enforcement of their intentions. I did so by text to my contact in the Northport Police Department. And they responded with, thank you for the heads up. And then they met my clients there this morning why did they meet your clients there well i presume they thought it would be a good idea just to accompany them in uh they knew the press had been following my clients for weeks and weeks on end and you'd have to ask them why they chose to come they did not indicate to me last night that they would be there. They just, again, thanked me for the heads up. It's all very, very coincidental.

Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Jump in. Nancy, the biggest part of that statement is when he said that Chris ventured off out of the sight of law enforcement. That's when you just happen to find the dry bag in the bramble. It's all too odd. The timing is weird. First of all, when he says they only opened the park up to the public as of yesterday, these folks aren't public. These are the parents of a missing person slash fugitive. They would have been instrumental. Plus they already invited Chris one time to get on the four-wheeler and drive them around. They could have gone to that park anytime they chose. So let's just follow

that through to its logical conclusion because in my my line of business, you have all sorts of theories, hypotheses, speculation thrown at you. What about this? What about that? Couldn't this happen? I spent 10 years dealing with defense attorneys, speculation about what might have happened in crimes that I was prosecuting. But let's just follow your line of thinking through to its logical conclusion, Cheryl McCollum. You say, oh, it's too coincidental. All right.

If those are Brian Laundrie's human remains and you're suggesting some type of a setup or that the evidence may have been planted, what, you want to tell me they planted his remains too? some type of a setup or that the evidence may have been planted. What? You want to tell me they planted his remains too? Let's follow through your line of thinking. What exactly are you trying to say? I'm trying to say it appears to me that his parents knew the location before yesterday.

They knew right where to go. They went right to the evidence within 30 minutes. And the point of that would be? This should have been done on the 14th. And the point of that would have been what? The outcome would be the same if this Brian Laundrie, he's dead. It would have been the same, but we wouldn't have spent a million dollars looking for him. We wouldn't have had people on the Appalachian Trail and in Mexico and everywhere else looking for him.

This would have been done. Gabby's family could have already moved from this as well, thinking he's out there on the run somewhere. Okay, I understand that. I guess I'm thinking in a probative manner. In other words, as you all know, everything registers in my mind. Think of a computer that only sees X's and O's. I think of everything as it relates to evidence at trial. And my point is, if they find him now or at a different date, does that change the outcome of this case? Let's backtrack straight up to Masa Saidi joining me there on the scene, joining me out of Florida. She's with WFLA-TV. Masa, tell me exactly what happened.

Is it true that the parents, Brian Laundrie's parents, find these items within an hour or less of going onto the trail? We found the items after a, quote, brief search off of a trail. So what I think is important to stress is law enforcement had searched the Myakka Hatchee Creek Environmental Park. They determined they were done. They opened this park back up to the public. Chris and Roberta said they wanted to go back and they wanted to take another look at this specific site that they believed Brian Laundrie would have visited. Now, according to the family attorney, they told law enforcement about this specific site on September 17th, the day the dry and laundry was reported missing. This site, according to the attorney, is near the entrance, about a mile or two, about a 30-minute walk, he estimates.

It is near the bridge, which connects the Carleton Reserve to the Micah Hatchie Creek Environmental Park. So apparently yesterday, Chris and Roberta show up at the scene. Two North Port police officers are with them. The attorney says they're keeping an eye on them, but we also know that they weren't keeping an eye on them the entire time based on what the attorney said out there on CNN. Chris discovers a dry bag. Police are not around. He picks up the dry bag. He's zigzagging through. Apparently, news media is following him. He runs into law enforcement and they have happened to find the backpack that belonged to Brian Laundrie and partial unidentified human remains. So the most stunning part of this to me is that we know this was an area that they

had been searching. The fact that law enforcement was done with it, the fact that this park was opened back up, the fact that Chris and Roberta decide they're going to go out there now and take a look for themselves. Remember, exactly two weeks ago, Chris Laundrie had been at the Myakkahatchee Creek Environmental Park. So the big question is, why was this missed until now? It was also, you know, very interesting to hear yesterday that the FBI knew, knew on the 13th that Brian was missing. According to Stephen Bertolino, the family notified the FBI on the 13th that Brian was missing. So we'll be working to see if that's true or not today. Straight out to John Elwood, deputy chief of Manatee County Search and Rescue. John Elwood, I also found it very difficult to believe that cadaver dogs were in that area and did not find human remains.

Well, Nancy, there's a couple of ways that you could approach this. First of all, in the way that cadaver dogs work, cadaver dogs alert on the scent of decaying human tissue, where my understanding is where Brian was located when the initial search began about a month ago, that area was underwater. And if the body had not really started to decompose and release oils and so on and so forth that would float up to the surface, it would make it difficult for those dogs to detect. Or was he not yet dead, John Elwood? If he wasn't dead at that point, cadaver dogs wouldn't go to him. Correct. And it's also my understanding that when they used live find slash tracking canines initially, that those dogs didn't alert on his scent, in which you guys have commented before about when the FBI went into the home, grabbed articles of clothing to use for the dogs as a scent

article, they did not detect his scent in the areas that they initially searched. So they were there in that exact area and they didn't hit. That's my understanding, correct. Cadaver dogs and scent dogs. Yes, ma'am. And where it was asked a week or so ago when they brought law enforcement cadaver dogs in. Why were they doing that? And the basic answer was at that point, they were using them as a diagnostic tool, meaning that

they used live flying canines initially, did not receive any indication that Brian was there. So then the next order of progression would be to use cadaver dogs to see if they would alert on anything. And one of the things also that as a canine handler that we look for before we even deploy the dog, because when you talk about the Carleton Reserve, you're talking 25,000 acres, 38 square miles, you look for buzzard circling and then what you would do is drive to that area and then release the canine to see if they can locate anything because at that point you don't know whether it's an animal or a human and the dogs are specifically trained not to alert on dead animals as like in casey anthony where they tried bringing that up in court and it's been proven

that they don't do that so if the dog comes back to the handler and says, there's nothing here, then you presume it would be an animal. Bombshell in the last hours. A notebook, a backpack, we believe belonging to Brian Laundrie, discovered not far from what we think are human remains. And, you know, Cheryl McCollum, as we all watched what was happening and I saw the medical examiner van roll up, the van doesn't show up unless you think you've got human remains. Cops do not disturb the medical examiner until they have to. Absolutely. No question about it. That van to me yesterday was, you know, the biggest sign that absolutely they had something. It was, you know, human in nature, human remains. And, you know, Nancy, I got to say, I was on the phone live with you when that was happening.

And, you know, at some point, you know, we've been doing this for weeks and weeks, but it comes down to just being a parent. And it's just gut-wrenching to think two families are now just destroyed. Destroyed. Torn apart. Over what? Guys, take a listen to our friends at ABC and Our Cut 362. Are the human remains found today in Florida those of Brian Laundrie, the fiance of Long Island's Gabby Petito? But also tonight, one of New York's former top cops is questioning the involvement of Laundrie's parents, saying something's just not right. There's just too many strange turns that Chris and Roberta Laundrie have been involved in to not believe that something is amiss here.

Eyewitness News reporter Siobhan Kim now with the latest on the investigation. The search for Brian Laundrie may be coming to a close. The Laundrie family attorney says Brian's parents found some belongings this morning near a trail he frequented. He spoke with Iowa News News moments after the FBI update. Well, as you can imagine, the parents are very distraught. Like everyone else, they're going to wait for the results of the forensic identification before making any further comments. But at this moment in time, you know, they're grieving. They're grieving.

Okay. You know, we have been looking so hard for Brian Laundrie, analyzing every move. It didn't hit until I saw that medical examiner's van pull up that he could actually be out there. Joining me right now, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics. Jump in, Joe Scott. Yeah, we don't show up unless we're invited, Nancy. That's the bottom line.

We're not going to get in the way of the police investigation. And understand this, just because somebody finds a backpack or this dry bag that might be associated with Brian Laundrie. That's not a reason to show up when like Mac had said, when the Emmys Van Choo showed up, I knew for a fact at that time that they did have human remain. The trick now, the trick now is, remember what the FBI said in their press or their release, they said this is a partial human remain. So what does that mean? Does that mean that this body is skeletonized to a certain degree and they only have maybe the core of the body, the spine, the ribs, that sort of thing, the pelvis. And if some kind of scavengers come in, they may have walked away with some of the remain,

even though the body was apparently partially submerged, perhaps. Don't be surprised if you see other cadaver dogs come back out there today and later on to look for these little pieces. Listen, this is not as simple as determining Gabby's cause of death. You have so many of these elements that are possibly missing, and that's what everybody's going to want to ask. First, is it him? And secondly, how did he die? And it's going to be very difficult to do anything relative to tox. If the skull is missing, and this is a gunfire related thing, which I highly doubt, you're not going to be able to analyze that for any kind of

bullet defect. So everybody needs to calm down, be patient, and let them work the science. Okay, let's go out and take a listen to Cut 363. This is my longtime friend Bill Ritter at ABC speaking to the NYPD Chief of Detectives listen area here and a very large 2400 acres from what I understand the parking of Butts, the Carlton Reserve and they go to this exact spot and they find the backpack and they identify the backpack from what I can understand and the notebook in this particular area here so it's quite strange. 24,000 acres I think actually.

24,000. Yeah. It seems worse. So we find that this one location, this remote location, where it's a path where people go by, we see the gentleman walking by in an earlier handheld video, and they're being told by the FBI agent that, well, all of a sudden we found something, we found remains. And you can see that there's some, they're a little taken back by it, I can see. So there's a lot of things here. This just doesn't add up to to quizzes. Dale Carson, you're the former Fed with the FBI. What do you make of the NYPD chief of detectives is telling our friend Bill Ritter?

A lot of things don't add up to coincidence. Well, I can tell you this, Nancy. I have tracked fugitives on the ground using dogs during my career. And what we often find is they're right near where they were last spotted. And if you will note that the car that was returned to the Laundrie family home was only a short distance from where he was located. And it's quite possible that he went there with the express purpose of committing suicide. And if that's true, the first place you look is right where the car was. And that's within the parameter. Additionally, there's no crime scene tape around a tree, which tells me that strangulation or hanging is not part of the equation here, at least as far as they know today. Just trying to think it through, Cheryl, because I, like you, am having a hard time with all the coincidences.

I've been trained that there are no coincidences in criminal law. The timing of when he goes missing, when the parents call police about him missing, what they knew. Could this be framed? Could it be a setup? All of those thoughts colliding, not just in my mind, but apparently the NYPD chief of detectives. What do you make of it? Well, it's like I said before, Nancy, think about it. They go to the park only after it's open to the public. The parents go right to a spot within 30 minutes and find an item. The dad picks it up. No gloves. No, doesn't wait on law enforcement.

Law enforcement is standing there talking to the parents. They're not wearing gloves. Mama hands the dry bag to the agent. The agent walks off with it. But prior to that, there's no tape up. And while the three of them are standing on that little dirt road area talking, you can hear the agent say, hey, y'all go back to the house and I'll keep you updated after he shows them whatever he does on the cell phone. But here was the most critical thing to me. You're telling me they have now found items. They are bringing in dogs and the medical examiner and everybody else. And down the road, here comes this man just walking his dog. That scene was not secured in any way. The man walks by morning. Good to see you. Yeah, the dog, he's all happy to see everybody jumping on the cameraman. It's the

most bizarre thing I've ever seen. Okay, let me go to you, Master Saeed, investigative reporter, joining us from WFLA and I believe it was Fox Digital that got that video that shows exactly what Cheryl is talking about, right in the middle of it,

comes a civilian walking a dog. But remember, this had been open to the public. So why not? I'm just curious. I was watching and I watched it over and over and over when the parents were looking at the items. And I couldn't tell. The mother, Roberta, brushed something off the father's face. I wonder if it

was a tear, but then later I saw the mother do her own face and I couldn't tell if they were gnats or something buzzing around them from all the heat and all the water. But other than that gesture, which I could not decipher, there seemed to be little or no reaction at all on the part of the Laundries to finding what is ostensibly items belonging to their son. So the attorney said that the family was heartbroken. According to the attorney, we know that when they were out there doing the search yesterday, law enforcement came up, showed him a picture of the backpack, and they were like, yes, that is his backpack, and notified them that they would have to leave

because human remains were found. So maybe that's where you saw that emotion. Maybe that is what was happening at the time, like the moment they told them that human remains were found. But I do want to just tell you what the attorney is saying about why, you know, why the laundries made this discovery. He basically said that the laundries thought the FBI, the trackers, the dogs would find these items. So, again, they said that they told the FBI back on the 17th to look under the bridge. So they didn't, you know, push to go out there sooner because they thought that the dogs and such would find it. It sounds like people are wondering, you know, could they have planted the backpack in the notebook? The attorney says that's hogwash. We know that the day before

they had left the house for, you know, several hours, went to Walmart, went to AT&T. We know that the day before they had left the house for several hours, went to Walmart, went to AT&T. We're not sure why, but I don't think that they were at the park beforehand. I think somebody would have seen that. And certainly I don't think they planted human remains. Now, according to the medical examiner, within the next day or two, possibly we could have a positive identification. But again, the point I'm making is I don't think they planted the remains there, obviously. And I'm just wondering if we'll be able to get a COD cause of death. Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta, what do you make of it? Well, first of all, Nancy, Brian Laundrie, as we have determined, I'm quite sure, has what we call an externalizing psychopathology, which is antisocial personality disorder.

And believe it or not, these people with this disorder can commit suicide. Oftentimes we think that they don't commit suicide because part of their behavior is they're grandiose, they think they're better than everybody, they're very controlling, but they can also become depressed. And much research has shown that they can be prone to suicide. But I have to wonder, I have to wonder if he wasn't killed by something else. And then lost touch with his parents somehow. And it wasn't a suicide. That's what I don't know if anybody else is wondering that, but that's what I'm wondering. What do you mean killed by something else, like a snake bit him? Like an alligator.

I mean, all we've been told is human remains have been found. We have no idea what the human remains are, but the entire time that we've been discussing this case, we've been talking about how treacherous the conditions are in that, in that area and how you can't even survive because of the bugs. So I have to wonder what happened to him. He could have committed suicide. I don't know how. Of course, I don't know how he would have done that. It's in his personality disorder to commit suicide. But I'm also wondering if something else happened. Okay, out to you, Jessica Morgan. What's the likelihood we're ever going to get a cause of death? It's going to be tough.

I'm not saying that they're not going to get one, but this is the problem that you encounter, Nancy. If there's no soft tissue, skin, muscle, that sort of thing, you can't examine the neck for any kind of ligature mark. Now, you might have an opportunity to see a broken bone like the hyoid, but most of the time the hyoid's gone really quick. And if you're talking about toxicology, after this period of time, if his timeline matches up with roughly with the last time he was seen, he's been down that long, ain't no way. It's going to be very, very difficult to do any kind of toxicological examination on him, Nancy. In the last hours, we are learning more about the developments that led to the discovery of what we believe to be Brian Laundrie's belongings and potential human remains. But why now? The coincidence of the parents, his parents just going into this preserve and within a very brief time, less than an hour, they find his belongings near his body.

This after cadaver dogs, scent dogs, drones, divers, a fleet of police looking for Brian Laundrie. And the parents find him in less than an hour. Take a listen to our cut 366. This is their lawyer, Steve Bertolino, speaking to our friends at CNN. Is the area that they were searching when these discoveries were made, is this a new area that the parents hadn't informed authorities about before? No, not at all. Indeed, this is the very area of the park that we initially informed law

enforcement on, I believe it was September 17th, that Brian would be most likely in the preserve in this particular area. As I know it, near the bridge, I think it's the bridge that might connect the Maya Cahatchee Environmental Park with the Carlton Reserve. Was this a very deep way or distance into the preserve? No, Mr. Laundrie informed me that it was quite near the entrance uh he didn't put an exact distance on it he put a time frame of about 30 minutes in um but i would guess could be a mile in or two it's really hard to tell uh for two reasons we saw one we weren't sure exactly where the discovery was made uh flying from above we know where we

saw activity but we don't know if that's where, you know, officers, law enforcement, they were just hanging out there or if that is exactly where the remains were found. What we are trying to do is to pull up the address where the Mustang was found and figure out how far away that is to the bridge where the attorney is saying these discoveries were made. But according to the attorney, it was about one or two miles and 30 minutes. And there is more. Take a listen again to the attorney, Stephen Bertolino, speaking to our friends at CNN. This is ARCA 368.

Chris and Roberta walked into the preserve. It is my understanding that they were followed closely by the two law enforcement personnel. And when I say closely, certainly with an eye shut. And as they went further in, Chris ventured off the trail into the woods. He was zigzagging in different areas. Law enforcement was doing the same thing. And Roberta Laundrie was walking down the trail. And I believe that is on some video to some other news outlet.

At some point, Chris locates what's called a dry bag. The dry bag is a white bag laying in the woods, I'll say 20 feet or so off the trail. According to Chris, it was in some bramble. Chris didn't want to pick the bag up because he wanted the law enforcement to see it. This was caught on camera. Chris couldn't find the law enforcement because they were then out of sight because Chris had been in the woods. So he didn't want to leave the bag there with the news reporter standing nearby. So he picked it up. He did meet up shortly with law enforcement. They looked at the contents of the bag.

Looked at the contents of the bag, zigzagging out into the woods. Out to you, Cheryl McCollum, zigzagging out into the woods, and you zigzag right into the possessions. And you're out of the eyesight of law enforcement. I mean, and again, the attorney says something here that is so odd to me. The very people that are there videotaping, you would think, God, this is going to make it great. You know, here it is. I'm going to go get law enforcement or I'm going to holler for them or something.

The attorney makes it seem like, you know, Chris Laundrie didn't trust the video person, so he wanted to take the bag. He didn't want to leave it. Well, again, that's odd to me. That's a weird way to almost frame that sentence that you don't trust the very people that are ensuring that, hey, this wasn't planted. I mean, both of those things can't be true. Straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us. Dr. Angie, if the notebook is in the dry bag. At first I thought, oh no, the notebook, that could be Laundrie's notebook, is destroyed from being underwater. Now I know it may have been in that white dry bag we saw.

So I've got no doubt in my mind that Brian Laundrie most likely poured his innermost thoughts and feelings into his notebook. Just judging by what I saw in his room at home, at his parents' home, every time we saw him on the vlog that Gabby had, he was reading or taking notes very, very introspective. Do you think we will find out from that notebook anything usable? or taking notes, very, very introspective. Do you think we will find out from that notebook anything usable? I think that what we could potentially find from that notebook is how his mood has been changing over the course of the weeks that the country has been looking for him. That's what I think. They can watch a change in his mood and demeanor by his writing style and by the content.

But the reality to Dale Carson, his mood, his mood. Do we care about Brian Laundrie's mood? Look, regardless of what his parents have done or not done, nobody wants to see a parent suffer. But can we just get real for a moment? Brian Laundrie's mood? I think he murdered Gabby.

I'm not concerned about his mood. Confessed in that notebook. There's all kinds of information in that notebook that relate particularly to his behavior in the last six months. So it's critical. And even if it's wet, they'll still be able to recover some of the writing typically by use of new technologies that also involve freezing it in a vacuum in order to preserve the text. You're right. Explain how that works, Joe Scott Morgan.

Yeah, what Dale is referring to. First off, I think that more than likely this notebook is going to be sent to somebody Dale's very familiar with. It'll go to the FBI crime lab, to their question document center. And what's going to happen is that when this freezing takes place, they'll be able to actually use alternative light sources, things like infrared, this sort of thing, to super enhance these pages. They're going to cease this kind of breakdown that takes place with the cellulose based paper. It'll freeze it just for a moment and they can actually photograph it and begin to pull out the detail on this thing. That's going to be essential. They have some amazing ways to make this writing come back to life, particularly nowadays as opposed to the way it used to be.

We're finding out more. And, of course, you have to consider the source. The source is the Laundrie family lawyer, Stephen Bertolino, speaking to our friends at CNN. We're finding out more of what he says exactly what happened. Take a listen to our cut 369. Law enforcement officers showed him a picture on the phone of a backpack that law enforcement had located also nearby and also some distance off the trail. At that point, the laundries were notified that there was also remains in the backpack, and they were asked to leave the preserve. What do you make of the suggestion that Mr. Laundry planted the bag in the backpack? In nice terms, it's hogwash.

Would the authorities have known what they walked onto the trail with? Absolutely. They met them at the gate or somewhere nearby. They walked in with them. And more importantly, Chris, this is what I said. Fortunately for the Laundries, the press was following them in the whole time. Tommaso Saidi joining us, WFLA-TV joining us right there in Florida. Tommaso, what was the Gabby Petito family

reaction to this? There has been nothing released through their attorney. And I looked at their social media pages late last night and they hadn't said anything. So I'm assuming they're waiting until the remains are positively identified to make a statement. I did want to just say very quickly, you know, my job is to hold people accountable. And it's becoming more difficult to not think that law enforcement dropped the ball here. Assuming what the attorney is saying is true. I mean, they opened up a scene to the public when human remains were very easy to find. They didn't have eyes on Brian Laundrie. Brian Laundrie got away. And now, according to the

attorney, they knew back on the 13th that he never returned and they knew exactly where he would likely be and they didn't find him. So it's just becoming increasingly difficult to think that law enforcement didn't make multiple mistakes in this situation. What's your response to that, Cheryl McCollum? Well, the attorney, you know, he hasn't wanted to keep his mouth shut the whole time, but he didn't make it clear to anyone that the family reported him missing on the 13th. He says on the videotape, he called law enforcement himself. So I can't imagine you've let people believe that that

mama sat there from the 13th through the 17th, not doing anything. So that was one of the things that we factored in to show that they must have knowledge of where he is because they were going to Starbucks and cutting their grass. So again, it is baffling to me. You know, law enforcement knows by the 11th that she's missing. They know the van is there. They've contacted Cassie and everybody else by phone. They tell mom and dad we're coming over to the house. The FBI shows up on the 17th. But again, like I have said from the beginning, nobody actually saw Brian. Nobody. Not the FBI, not the local police, not his attorney.

And I will still say that attorney has only quoted mom and daddy. He's never one time quoted Brian because he's never met with him. This leaving with Gabby Petito's family, basically no hope of ever getting justice in a court of law. We wait for that coroner's report and for a positive identification. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.