Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BRIAN LAUNDRIE SPOTTED?

Episode Date: October 4, 2021

There are now at least ten reported sightings of Laundrie near the Appalachian Trail. Meanwhile, the search continues. Could Laundrie still be in the Sunshine State, somewhere within the 1,136 acres of Fort DeSoto State Park? We'll receive an update on the intense search for Laundrie there, across a series of five islands at the mouth of Tampa Bay.Finally, what about the newly-released police bodycam video that purports to show Laundrie's girlfriend, Gabby Petito with a gash on her face and bruises along her left arm? Why are we just now hearing about this? Has there been some sort of cover-up on the part of the police in Moab, Utah?Joining Nancy Grace Today: Mike Hadsell - President and Founder, Peace River K9 Search and Rescue, Twitter: @K9River, PRSAR.org Dale Carson - Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Mahsa Saeidi - Investigative Reporter, WFLA-TV (Tampa), Twitter/Instagram: @MahsaWho, Facebook: "WFLAMahsa" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Gabby Petito's so-called boyfriend, Brian Laundrie, still on the run. Where is he? In the last 24 hours, a credible sighting on the Appalachian Trail. This as more body cam footage is uncovered from the Moab police. Wow. Why wasn't that released two or three weeks ago? Why are we just getting it now? Was there a coverup? Because it reveals Gabby had a burning cut, a gas to her face, and bruises on her left arm. Nobody heard that at the get-go. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Not only do we have the sighting on the Appalachian Trail, the brand new body cam footage, but

also we are now learning the sister has more contact with Brian Laundrie than she first revealed. Where is Brian Laundrie? We are live from Florida. We are live at the Appalachian Trail. We are live at Peace River. Guys, thank you for being with us. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111 regarding that new signing of Brian Laundrie at Appalachian Trail. Listen to this. I'm Dennis Davis, and I was coming up from Florida on Friday to go hiking the Appalachian Trail. I got up here to the North Carolina Tennessee area at about 1230, so early Saturday morning. I was parking my car at a parking lot where we were going to be leaving our car. And I passed the parking lot, so I was doing a U-turn to go back to it.

And as I was doing that U-turn, a vehicle approached from behind me. The vehicle let me go ahead and finish my U-turn. And as I was driving up to that vehicle, the gentleman in the vehicle stuck his hand out and kind of waved me down. I pulled up alongside of the vehicle. It looked like a Ford F-150 truck. It was white. I was in a car, so I was lower than the vehicle. I rolled my window down, and I started talking with the gentleman. I could tell right away that he wasn't something wasn't right with him.

Dennis Davis, the hiker who made the identification. Joining us, that sound from him. But I want you to hear more sound from him. Take a listen. It took him a second to get anything out. And then he said, man, I'm lost. And I thought, you know, I was kind of lost myself. I thought maybe he was another hiker looking for the same

market. And I said, Well, I'm not from around here. But where are you trying to? What are you trying to find? And he said, man, I need to go to California. And I was like, Wow, well, I don't know the directions to California. But he said, Yeah, he said me and my girlfriend had a fight. And man, I love her. And she called me and I need to go out to California to see her. And I said, well, man, I-40 is right there. We were right next to the I-40.

And I said, you can take I-40 west, and it'll get you to California. And he said, no. He said, I think this road that we're on, I'm just going to take it to California. And that was Waterville Road. Waterville Road right along Pigeon River, as I recall. Let me introduce you an all-star panel helping us make sense of what we know right now. Dale Carson, high-profile lawyer joining us from Florida and former Fed, an agent with the FBI, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. You can find him at DaleCarsonLaw.com.

Founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum is joining us. You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and star and host of his own new podcast, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Also with me, Masa Saidi, special guest, investigative reporter, WFLA-TV. But first, I want to go to Mike Hadsall, president and founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue, PRSAR.org. Mike, thank you for being with us. What do you know? Well, we were working with Dog all week out there at Fort DeSoto. We know that four of the family members were out there.

Three of them came back. We don't believe that Brian was with them on the return unless he was hiding in the camper or in the sister's trunk to avoid the cam footage going in and out. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. You say you know four family members. I assume you're referring to the Laundrie family, and that would be the mother, the father, the sister, and Brian Laundrie went into DeSoto.

Is that correct? Correct. And you say you know only three left. I assume that's the mother, the father, and the sister. Is that correct? Correct. How do you know that? According to the intelligence gathered from Mr. Bounty Hunter, what he brought in, and there's cam footage.

And they have people going in and out of there, apparently, that has been reviewed. Interesting. Do they have, Mike Hadsall, everyone, joining us, President and Founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue. I'm going to get to your dog in just a moment. Mike, again, thank you for being with us. At DeSoto, do they have a camera set up where people go in and out?

There's cams all over the place out there. Ooh, I'm glad to hear that. So I can only assume the feds know who went in and who went out. Are you certain about four in, three out? From the intelligence that we got on the briefing for the search, that's what we received. Wow. Four in, three out.

And that's when the family packed up and left. Was it September 11 that they checked in? I believe it is. September 6 they checked in. 6th. Yeah, it was earlier in the month. That's correct. Earlier in the month.

Okay, because reportedly he was cited after that. Mike Hadsell? I'm not sure if that citing's correct. Mm-hmm. I agree with you because, you know, you drive around

your neighborhood and you see things. Are you always sure which day it was? Which day did you drive by and see the trash still at the end of the driveway

or the newspapers piled up at somebody's house? Was it Monday? Was it Wednesday? You know you saw it, but what day did you see it? Very good point. Tell me about your dogs. I remember seeing your dogs during Tiger King, and they were doing an incredible job. Tell me about what, if any, involvement your dogs have had in the search for Brian Laundrie.

Well, what we've done is when we were contacted by a dog's organization to assist in searching these outer islands and if we could supply canine support. And, of course, in our organization, we'll help if we can. And we're a nonprofit. No one gets paid where we're at. We do this just to assist. And we're a nonprofit. No one gets paid where we're at. We do this just to assist. And we went out to help them with the islands. Now, the islands out there, we have a lot of experience with this.

We have teams that search on the islands quite a bit, especially for missing kids. Some of them go out there to hurt themselves. So we're pretty experienced about this. And we were ready to do this and use the dogs. Now, the dogs are trained on air scent, human air scent, and they will work from the boat. And like I said, we'll get on the downwind side of the islands. If they throw an alert, then we'll beach the boat and we'll send the team in and take a look and see what's there. And that is how we located a couple of the camps that we found in there in the Fort DeSoto area.

Question. Mike Hassell, joining me, President, founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue. Do you believe you found evidence that Brian Laundrie had been there? You know, we found evidence that someone's been out there. There's no way to tie it to Brian at this point. So it would be intellectually dishonest to say that it is Brian. Okay. Let me ask you another question. Do you have reason to believe he's still out there? No, I don't think he's still out there. I think he was out there, but I think he's gone now.

I think that's very astute of you. Okay, I want to go from Mike Hatzell joining us, who has been out in and on the water all around DeSoto with his dogs looking for any human. I call them islandettes or islets. They're very small, but they are land formations to some degree off the, I hate to say a coast, but off the inland of DeSoto where the parents went, we believe, with the sister and Brian Laundrie. I'm coming right back to you, Mike Hadsell.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. First, joining me from the Appalachian Trail, Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, hold tight. Masa Saidi joining me, special guest, investigative reporter, WFLA-TV. Tell me about the tip from this guy, Dennis Davis, on the Appalachian Trail. What does he say happened, Masa? So Dennis Davis, a Florida resident, says that it was this past weekend, Saturday around midnight. So obviously it's going to be

dark. He says that he saw a pickup truck and immediately, like when he starts to talk with this man, he thought maybe the guy was on drugs at first, but something was off with this man. And he got to talking to the guy and he said, me and my girlfriend had a fight. And apparently, as you heard off the top of the show, he wanted to take the back road to California. Now, after this happened, after this kind of strange conversation happened, he stopped. He Googled Brian Laundrie and he says that he is 95% sure that he just had a conversation with Brian Laundrie. So he calls the FBI. He calls multiple law enforcement agencies, including the Haywood County Sheriff's Office.

Now, the sheriff's office says that they looked into this and it did not, quote, lead to any new information. But Nancy, they also had 10 more sightings this weekend there okay wait what did you know that 10 more sightings on the appalachian trail is that what you're talking about masa on the appalachian trail so yeah haywood county telling outlets they've had 10 additional sightings so in and around haywood county since that would be their jurisdiction 10 additional sightings okay let's go to the Appalachian Trail. Cheryl McCollum, you and I have hiked the Appalachian Trail. It is some rugged terrain once you get into it.

I mean, right there at the trailhead, it looks like, hey, no big deal. After about 12, 15 minutes, you realize it's very rugged. Let's analyze what this guy said. First of all, Cheryl, I want you to tell me what you see and whether this story by Davis is possible. If it is, I'd like to know where Brian Laundrie got a white pickup truck. Did his parents give it to him? His sister? That's the first we've heard of that. And why would anybody be so stupid if they know the whole country's looking for that for him why would he say where he's going it just doesn't make sense but you tell me what you think Cheryl McCollum you're there on the scene well right now it's raining um fall of course is in activity

it makes it much more difficult to traverse the you know pathways and and hiking trails. Literally, he walked maybe 10 feet. Hold on, I'm losing you. Can you speak up, Cheryl? Can you hear me now, Nancy? Much better, thank you. Okay, literally, he walked into the wood line about 10 feet ahead of me, and I lost visual with him just that quick. It's that dense right now.

Like I said, it's raining. The smoke on top of the mountain, that fog is hanging real heavy. Once we get more to the top, visibility is almost zero. So it's, you know, it's a perfect place to hide. I'm telling you, if you get off the trail, not even 10 feet, nobody can see you. Now, where he allegedly got a truck, I have no idea. But I will tell you, in my opinion, the biggest difference in the Appalachian Trail in Florida is mountain folks ain't talking. I tried to talk to an old mountain woman last night, and she told me, you hit that gravel road with no signage, it ain't soaking in your vernacular. Okay, I want to talk to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us.

Dr. Bethany, I know that Dale Carson and Cheryl McCollum are going to know exactly what I'm talking about. I've had so many defendants, so many targets, so many co-defendants, so many suspects start talking. And when they start talking, almost always, I thought it was anecdotal at first, but then I noticed it over and over and over. I'm talking thousands, thousands, over 10,000 witnesses and or defendants. They'll start talking and they weave a little bit of the truth into their lie, their story, I guess too, because they can't think fast enough to come up with an entirely new story or it helps them with their story. They don't have to think so much. But this guy that was spotted by Dennis Davis, who was at a trailhead there in Tennessee on the North Carolina line, exactly where Sheryl McCollum is right now. This guy said, I had a fight with my girlfriend, but I love her and I've got to, I want to go back out west to her.

Think about it. A girlfriend out west had a fight, separated. That's a lot of detail. Would you agree? Nancy, it's a lot of detail. It's a strange confessional. I think sometimes these perpetrators, they have gone over the story so many times in their mind. They have altered the details to their own favor, their own benefit.

It's as if they're already in front of a judge or jury or in a room with a detective questioning them, and they're lining up the story just so. It is foremost on their mind. And if this was Brian Laundrie, he had rehearsed the story. So, yes, with these perpetrators, there's a strange kind of confessional. But, Nancy, there's always one detail they change. And usually the detail is about the money. That incriminates them? Yeah, exactly. That little detail. What about about it Cheryl McCollum what happened we're hearing Dr. Bethany Marshall psycho analyst to

the stars joining us out of Beverly out of LA star of Bling Empire on Netflix Cheryl what about it there's no doubt in my mind Nancy that if he has any conversations with anyone, whether he's in Florida, the Appalachian Trail, anywhere, he's going to have what we call leakage. He's going to say some things that are absolutely true and accurate. It also sounds to me like if that gentleman did have a conversation with Brian Laundrie, that Brian is having some type of psychotic episode. Okay, Cheryl, I'm sorry, but when did you get your psychiatric degree? Nancy, I absolutely do not have one. Okay, so why are you saying psychotic episode?

You know, I've been doing this all these years. I'm not totally sure I understand what a psychotic episode is. It sounds to me like this guy wanted directions and it's called CYA. That's a technical legal term. Psychotic episode, my rear end. What are you talking about psychotic episode? He could still drive. He could still lie. He could still ask for directions. He could also have the wherewithal to say, you know what? I hear you're saying to take I-40, but I'm just going to stick right here along the Pigeon River. That doesn't sound psychotic to me. He said he got a phone call from Gabby. He's talking about going and meeting her. That would be a lie. Okay, Dr. McCollum, I'll circle back with you on that. Joe Scott,

let's try to distance ourselves from Cheryl McCollum's psychiatric diagnosis and talk about what we know regarding forensics. What do we know regarding forensics? And I'm also going to get into the sister and the parents. Are any of them facing charges? But first, this sighting, this sighting along with 10 others on the Appalachian Trail. Yeah, you know, I'm thinking about that. 10 people. And I'm wondering, I'm wondering, is this just people kind of chiming in and saying, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I saw him as well. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, everybody's kind of in this hyper vigilant state right now where they're looking and you can see shadows, right?

It's like it's like being terrified of something and automatically you're seeing ghosts and goblins everywhere. You don't know if this is actually Ron Laundrie, but listen, from an investigative standpoint, the police are compelled to follow up on each one of these leads because it's the one lead that you don't follow up on that winds up getting you burned. Now, is he up there? I have no idea. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let's look at the totality of the circumstances as we know them. I'm going to throw this to Dale Carson, former FBI agent, high profile lawyer now out of Jacksonville. You just heard Mike Hadsell, right? And I know who Mike Hadsell is. I've seen his dogs in action. He says he doesn't think Brian Laundrie is anywhere near DeSoto anymore. He thinks he was there, but he's not there anymore. We don't think

he's in Carleton Reserve anymore. Okay, take that, put that in, in your computer, Dale Carson. Let's add to that, he's hiked the Appalachian Trail before. We know criminals always go back to where they're comfortable. Scott Peterson went out on the water to dump a body. It happens over and over. A guy goes, jumps bond. Where is he? He's hiding under the bed at mommy's house. He's familiar with it. He's comfortable with it. Laundry has hiked the Appalachian Trail before. He's comfortable with it. So we've got, he's not at, he's not down at Carlton Reserve. He's not at DeSoto. So where is he? He's hiked Appalachian Trail before. Here's the guy giving this statement about his conversation with a Brian Laundrie lookalike and then 10 other sightings. What do you think, Dale Carson? Well, I agree with Joe that it's just people saying,

I think I saw him too. Oh, okay. Do you remember that skit that Carson used to do? I vaguely remember it. It was called The Mighty Carnac. Remember, he could read people's minds. So from where you're sitting in your luxurious office in Jacksonville, I guess, looking out over the river in your leather turnaround chair, you have divined that all these people were mistaken. Is that right, Dale Carson?

I'm impressed. Yeah, listen, I think he's still in the Florida area. But when we look at the sisters now involved in potentially transporting him, the family's clearly involved with having something to do with transporting him. But under Florida law, unless they know he's guilty of a crime or been charged with a crime, you can't charge them with aiding and abetting. So then it becomes a timeline. Hold on. Let's talk about the law in Florida. I've been doing a little research on the law in Florida, and I came upon Florida Statute 777.03.

And it discusses how there are certain exemptions for family members that try to help out another family member in trouble with the law. And it's very clear to me, if the target is charged with murder one or murder two, that's not going to fly. All right. You can't help out somebody, facilitate them in a crime. That's a lot different from giving your son sustenance, giving him money, giving him food, letting him borrow a vehicle. They're not going to go to jail for that. But if they lied to police, to the feds, that is a crime deal, Carson. Absolutely, it is. And I'd love to know the conversation that occurred when they put the Landry parents in that police vehicle where there's no expectation of privacy and they're conversing between themselves with nobody else in the car. Well, I've got a pretty good idea what they said, Dale Carson.

I don't think they said a thing. And Cheryl McCollum, I'll tell you why. Under our law, as you know, Cheryl, from all the crimes you processed, no one has a duty to help police. You don't have to save somebody. You don't have to give police information. That's not your duty. And if you choose not to speak, you're not going to go to jail. But once you lie, you're going to jail. Once you lie to police in an investigation, it's obstruction. If they spoke to their lawyer, and I bet they did, I'm sure he said, just don't say anything. You notice when the press asks them questions, they never comment.

They never say a word. I bet they did the same thing with the cops. Because that way they didn't lie, and that way they're not on the hook. Absolutely right. The sister, however, did speak and the sister said, I haven't spoken to him. I hadn't had a chance to speak to him at all. And we know now for a fact that's a lie, even though we believed it was a lie. Cheryl, she said that on GMA. You can lie all you want to the GMA and it's not a crime.

Okay. It's a crime if you tell that to cops. We don't know that she said that to cops. Do we? I have a little bit of information. No, we have no idea. Wait, I think I hear Masa Saidi jumping in. Go ahead, Masa, jump in. So the attorney texted me regarding that GMA interview and what the sister said about, you know, not having spoken with them.

And the attorney said part of his text said, quote, any prior communication. Oh, I'm sorry. It says, quote, law enforcement agencies are well aware of these dates. So the attorney saying that law enforcement knows that Cassie saw Brian on September 1st, when Brian stopped by Cassie's house. And the attorney is saying that law enforcement knows that Cassie saw Brian at Fort DeSoto Park on September 6th.

So that sounds to me from reading that text message that she did talk with law enforcement and gave them those dates because the attorney again says, quote, law enforcement agencies are well aware of these dates.

Hey, Nancy, can I just add one more thing? Please. We don't know for sure. Go thing that we don't know for sure? Go ahead. We don't know for sure that Brian Laundrie has ever spoken with, met with, or FaceTimed with that lawyer. I don't think they've ever met because I think he was long gone. I want to circle back to Mike Hadsall, President and Founder of Peace River Canine Search and Rescue. When you say that you're convinced Brian Laundrie is no longer anywhere near DeSoto

where we camp with his family or the islets on the, I want to say, coastline. Tampa Bay. Thank you. From Tampa Bay. Why are you so convinced he's either never been there on those islets or has been there and left? What we saw out there, it's not as big an area as vast as you think. And there were a lot of reports, and I will say a lot of tips came in and reports that Brian Landry, they had seen Brian in and around Tampa Bay and St. Petersburg.

And, of course, Dog the Bounty Hunter, his crew is following up on all those as well. So these tips just keep rolling in. And Appalachia seems too far for me. The camps that we found out there were old. They weren't fresh, so he may have been there and then left. We know that Mom bought burner phones. We don't know if the We know that mom bought burner phones. We don't know if the sister or the daughter bought burner phones. Why are you so convinced that they bought burner phones?

Because Masa Saidi, joining us, WFLA-TV, they're saying, the laundress are saying, Brian lost his phone, the one he had been using up until the point that he got home. Somebody had to text mom and say, hey, I'm coming home. Gabby's not with me because she made that reservation for three. She changed it from two to three, the mom did, according to reports. So he had to be communicating with them. And then he lost it. According to them, they bought another regular cell phone, not a burner. September 4th, yep, on September 4th, an AT&T phone purchased for Brian. That they know that mom bought, but what's the daughter been doing?

And our concern and our focus is that the daughter lives in Lakewood Ranch, which is only 30 minutes from Fort DeSoto Park. Interesting point. Why are you so convinced that burner phones were purchased? Well, I don't know. We don't know. But we don't know that we don't know either. No one's been focusing on the daughter and Brian's sister. We should be looking at her. And she would be a perfect source of supply. She could drive out there at any time, 30 minutes away, drop off a bag of

food by a by a roadside somewhere and say hey brian i dropped off some supplies for you and we'll go back home and who would miss her question do you mike had sell do you believe he's still in the florida area i do i don't think i think everyone has overestimated his wilderness skills and being a guy who trains people for wilderness skills, I just don't buy it. Nancy, I have to, I'm going to chime in and concur with Mike here. I got to tell you, I still- Okay, I agree with both of you. I don't think he's made it to the Appalachian Trail. I still go back to this idea that it would have been very easy. Remember that camping site, number one, that had the beach area. I still believe that he could have launched from there in a kayak,

maybe a small kayak that his parents had purchased at a big box store, or maybe now the sister who knows he hops out there to those islands. And this is the thing from that point, from that point, he could easily get into the, uh, to the St. Pete or to the Tampa area and just walk on foot. I still think that there is a high probability. he could be within the homeless community in those areas because you can blend in, you can live under a bridge, you can live at a shelter, you can change your appearance just slightly, and nobody's going to mess with you.

They have bigger fish to fry with local crimes as opposed to looking to this. And when you get into the homeless population, which as an investigator, I have spent a considerable amount of time in, everything just becomes kind of blended. You lose sight of things. It's like a huge jigsaw puzzle. And so it's very, very confusing. Yeah, you can see him up on the Appalachian Trail or maybe he's gone to Cuba and all these other things. But just from a practical standpoint, why that park?

Why water access and those little keys out there, those little islets or whatever the phraseology is, he could hop to these population centers. And then you have major interstates. If he decides to hop on one of those, it can be gone. Hop on an interstate on what? His kayak that you just

made up? I didn't make that up. Oh, you know that he has a kayak. No, I don't. But I also don't know that well i think that it's a high i think no i i don't but i also don't know that he has a white truck either you know so where does that come from okay that's in that's a whole nother can of worms you said kayak all right so now you're it's so easier to quote hop on the interstate how where is he getting a vehicle i don't Maybe, again, here's another wild one for you. If you like that one, here's another one. I still think that somebody could have gotten him a bicycle.

He puts a helmet on. He's going down back roads, Nancy, and he's avoiding contact. You've got mask mandates. I'm so glad you're not my witness on the stand right now because you've just gone wild. You've gone rogue, Joe Scott. Just stop. Stop. Right now.

Don't say anything else. I refuse. You got me a kayak, a vehicle, just stop. Stop. Right now. Don't say anything else. You got me in a kayak, a vehicle, a bicycle. Okay. Hey, Nancy, let me jump in. Please help me. Save me from Joe Scott Morgan. Quick. I'm going to, sugar. We can talk all day, but he doesn't have these skills.

And he's not at the right level to traverse the Appalachian Trail. We can talk about what he's doing in Florida. Here's the reality. He's been successful for at least 18 days. He's avoided law enforcement. He's avoided canine. He's avoided Dog the Bounty Hunter, who's found over 10,000 fugitives. So to me, that's the skill level we're dealing with,

and we need to get to the reality of he is not going to be found until he screws up and I've said it from jump. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, do you really think the parents would cut the cord? I don't believe it. I guarantee you somehow, some way, they are in touch with Brian Laundrie. I guarantee you he's somewhere with a solar charger. He's got a burner phone, and somehow he's either texting them on a burner phone or he's emailing them to a new account.

I think that's why they went to a public library. What were they going to go? What were they at a display of CDs from the 80s, Biggest Hits? They have computer access to the libraries. They can get on computers and computer access at the libraries. They can get on computers and get online at the libraries. And the libraries clear their histories every night. So, you know, if you don't get on that computer quick and find out what they were looking at, they're going to clear it that night and you won't be able to find out what they were looking at. And it would be so

easy to use that burner to text or email. Nancy. Right. I mean, I just find it hard to believe they totally cut the cord on him. They have not cut the cord on him. And I'm going to tell you, this is a very powerful, powerful family psychology that they have been covering up for Brian Laundrie since he was a little boy. He probably has a very, very long history of minor infractions, maybe torturing animals, you know, the kind of behaviors we see in budding sociopaths where they really don't act like the other people in society. So I would think that there is one family member in particular who is very invested in covering up for Brian and that that person is organizing everybody else. It could be the mother, it could be the father, but you start going to the laundry, go to their church, go to the neighborhood coffee clutch, go to the mother's friends and ask who is

the driving force in covering up for Brian. And then you can begin to understand where the energy is behind this. And I would also bet you, Nancy, that there's another family member who's not so sure about all of this, who is really afraid that they are going to get in trouble at the end of the day, who sees the big picture. But there's a ringleader in that family. And I would sort of be talking to the people in the neighborhood, all the friends, and finding out who is the driving force in terms of covering up for Brian and see if you can get in between family members and get the person who has the most sense to begin to talk. Guys, we're going to take a straw vote, okay? Don't say why. You're on cross-exam. Do not explain.

Okay. Is laundry in Appalachia? Is he on the Appalachian Trail? I vote no. Mike Hadsall? No. Bethany? No.

Dale? Yes. We got a yes. Cheryl McCollum? Yes. Joe Scott? No, ma'am. Masa?

I just don't know, Nancy. Oh, I knew. I knew you were not going to commit because that would be an opinion, and you're the consummate reporter. You're not going to do it. I mean, I kind of feel that it could go either way since he has hiked there before, but how did he get there? Jack, you look it up for me.

How far is DeSoto where Mike Had Hadsell is, to the Appalachian Trail? To the trailhead. I don't mean the end of it. I mean the beginning of the Appalachian Trail right there at the North Carolina line. That's going to be 800 miles, maybe. Yeah. How did he get? 500. What? 500. How would he make it without a vehicle? 500 miles. I mean, I don't care how great of a woodsman he is. How's he going to get that far unless he's hitching, catching a bus where he would get caught, or he's got a vehicle.

And if he's got a vehicle, Florida is full of tolls with cameras. So how far is it exactly, Jackie? I'm still getting there. Okay, have you ever heard of Google? It's G-O-O-G. Just type it in. Nancy, if we went from Brevard, North Carolina, to Tampa, this is just kind of a rough estimate.

It would be 620 miles. And by car, that's a, I don't know, they have it at 8 hours and 49 minutes to make that journey. Okay, just released body cam video. Let's go, Tyler, if you could play cut 208. This is Adrienne Banker at News Nation Now. Body camera video has been released from Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie's heated exchange in Utah back in August. And Petito admits she hit Laundrie first, but that then he grabbed her face after and dug his nails into her face. The officer is heard on this camera footage,

this video footage, telling Laundrie that he is the victim of domestic assault. The police chief has taken a sudden leave of absence, and now the city is looking into how the police officers involved handled the situation when they were called to stop there with Gabby and with Brian. And many people criticizing this incident because the police called Brian the victim in this situation. Let me go straight out to Masa Saidi joining us, WFLA TV. How come we didn't see that body cam video to start with? Great question. Great question. Great question and a question that we're asking.

And another question, is there any other body cam video that we haven't seen yet? There's a female law enforcement officer on that scene. And she is, according to the two body cam videos that we have seen already, she does appear to be talking with Gabby alone while Gabby is in the back of that police cruiser. You know, sometimes a girl might reveal more information to another woman. So it would be very interesting to see if there's any other body cam video. And feel free to chime in. But I did think I saw possibly a camera on her uniform.

So that's one big question. But really the new thing that happened when this video was released, the officer says, quote, did he hit you, though? And she says, I guess, yeah, but I hit him first. And she kind of breaks down. She says he grabbed my face. He didn't punch me, but he grabbed me with his nail. I definitely have a cut. I can feel it when I touch it. It burns. So this is what was new. Gabby saying very clearly that he also assaulted her in this way. This is something that we did not hear as clearly. Let's try to play the entirety of Cut 2-11, the Moab Police Department,

second body cam footage that we didn't see initially. What happened after he locked you out? Until you take a breather? Well, he walked away to go take his own breather. didn't see initially. I'm feeling bad. I mean, I don't need to be bad. Yeah, it happens. Then what happened? I don't know. And I told him to drive me to get more, because I was getting used to it. Yeah? Is there something on your cheek here? Looks like, did you get hit in the face?

Yeah. Kind of looks like something hit you in the face. I don't know. And then over on your arm shoulder right here that's new huh it's got a new mark oh yeah I don't know

can I see the other side of your face so what happened here and here um I'm not sure it was a I was just trying to get it back so the backpack got you So she has a bruise and a cut on her face, a bruise on her left arm, yet she was deemed the aggressor. If Laundrie had been arrested right then and there for domestic violence in Moab, would Gabby be alive today?

We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.