Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Brian Laundrie's Skeleton Identified, Clues Left Behind

Episode Date: October 22, 2021

Brian Laundrie's remains have been found, but so many questions remain. At the top of the list: How did Brian Laundrie die? And, will the Petito family ever find out why their daughter died? Today Nancy Grace and her panel look at these latest developments.Join Nancy Grace Sunday Night, October 24, 10pm Eastern, on Fox News Channel for a live discussion. A Gabby Petito Investigation: Part 2Joining Nancy Grace today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Mahsa Saeidi - Investigative Reporter, WFLA-TV (Tampa), Twitter/Instagram: @MahsaWho, Facebook: "WFLAMahsa" Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As we go to air, we learn the very latest regarding the manhunt for Brian Laundrie. Skeletal remains found in the Carlton Preserve are, in fact for Brian Laundrie's skeletal remains found in the Carlton Preserve are in fact Brian Laundrie. What we believe is that he is largely skeletonized. Why? And is this a big red flag of guilt? first of all take a listen to this also breaking tonight the fbi says that the skeletal remains found in a nature preserve in florida on wednesday are in fact those of Brian Laundrie. Law enforcement had considered Laundrie the only person of interest in the murder of his fiancee, Gabby Petito. The discovery comes

one day after a stunning update from the FBI, which held a press conference outside of this Florida nature preserve. Investigators found what appeared to be human remains, although with personal items such as a backpack and notebook belonging to Brian Laundrie. In a statement on Thursday, the FBI says comparisons of dental records confirm the human remains found are those of Laundrie. And don't poo-poo dental records. You think anybody else has the same set of cavities, feelings, implants, orthodontia that you do, they don't. Dental records have been used for decades before anybody ever heard of deoxyribonucleic acid DNA. Again, thank you for

being with us. Take a listen now. You were hearing our friends at E.T. Take a listen to Daytona Everett at Live Now from Fox. New details tonight. The FBI field office in Denver confirming that the human remains found just yesterday on the Myahkahatchee Trail and Park are those of Brian Laundrie, according to some of those dental records. To give a little more detail, they say a comparison of dental records confirms that the human remains are, in fact, Brian Laundrie. We also got a couple of confirmations from the two different families,

from the Gabby Petito family. They say that Gabby's family is not doing interviews or making a statement at this time. The Gabby Petito family, extremely distraught. Now, apparently, they will never have answers about their daughter's murder. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories With Me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know now. First of all, Wendy Patchett, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags and host of Today

with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ. Karen Stark, renowned New York psychologist, joining us from Manhattan. You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen with a C. Founder, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl McCollum at coldcasecrimes.org. Professor of Forensics,

Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Star of a brand new hit series on iHeart Podcast, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Perfirst to Masa Saidi joining us, investigative reporter on the ground, WFLA-TV in Tampa. Masa, thank you for being with us. You know, when the remains were found, all sorts of speculation went wild. As a matter of fact, Mossa, take a listen to our friends at NBC New York. Listen. The remains were actually just bones.

That's what the human. Just yesterday, Laundrie's parents told the FBI that they were going to hit one of the trails that he frequented, a place that they said they had told investigators to search in the beginning. When they went there, the water had receded quite a bit, and that's when they were able to find Brian's backpack, a notebook, and then steps away from that, they were able to find partial human remains. We're told they were skeletal remains remains and also a partial piece of a human skull were found as well. And it's apparent that all this information, all the remains that they

were able to find, were able to help make a positive identification. Tomasa Saidi, WFLA-TV, that is where all the theories, all the speculation, all the clues melded together to come up with a lot of ideas, let me say, hypotheses about how Brian Laundrie's remains were found, largely centered on Chris and Roberta Laundrie. They go out, they announce they're going to go out and search for their son, and in less than an hour, where cadaver dogs have failed, drones have failed, dive teams have failed, hundreds of man hours have failed,

they find him in less than an hour. That led to a lot of speculation because of the very rare coincidence. Yeah, it is definitely a coincidence. And certainly I understand all the questions that people have about this. This is an area that was searched for over a month by multiple law enforcement agencies, and they found nothing, no sign of Brian Laundrie. Then the parents show up at the scene. They're closely followed by law enforcement. And very quickly after the briefest of searches, the parents find the dry bag, law enforcement finds the backpack, and the partial human remains, the skull. And, you know, people have questions.

Why now? Why was this discovery made now? And I asked the attorney, Stephen Bertolino, about this yesterday. I said, how did Chris and Roberta know exactly where to go? Why did they start here? And he said, first of all, this was the general area that they had told law enforcement Brian would be all along one. And two, he said, they just started at the beginning. It was happenstance. They just started. Roberta was walking the trail. Chris started to zigzag through the woods. And that's when he made the discovery. So it certainly is a coincidence, but the attorney says that this was an area, according to the attorney, according to the FBI, that had been submerged before. So I think the questions for the family, I certainly understand them, but there should also be questions to law enforcement.

I don't think anyone is suggesting the family planted the remains. Well, actually, some people are suggesting the family planted his remains. There's a lot of suggestions going on. Straight out to Cheryl McCollum. Weigh in, Cheryl. Nancy, I think that the family attorney is directly involved with the way people are seeing this case and the conspiracy theories. I've got four points I want to make real quick. We're originally told that he went to the Carlton Reserve. Then we find out, no, it's the My Hatchie Park, which is 17 miles away. Then we're told he left on the 14th. Nope, nope, now we're told he left on the 13th.

Then the lawyer says he notified law enforcement himself that Brian was missing the night of the 13th or the morning of the 14th. They couldn't remember. And law enforcement says, that ain't true. We didn't know he was missing until the 17th. Then we're told mom bought him a cell phone on September 14th and they're on surveillance video. And the attorney comes back and says, oh says oh yeah the FBI even has that phone that's why John Q Public is concerned

that's why we have conspiracy theories because the lawyer can't even keep things straight you know she's right Wendy Patrick uh Wendy Patrick joining me, California prosecutor and host of Today with Dr. Wendy KCBQ. Wendy, my boss, Mr. Slayton, the longest serving district attorney in the country at that time, 37 years elected, made it very clear, don't speak to the press. If you're cornered, be prepared with a very generic comment. And I had a generic comment. I believe the jury will return a verdict that speaks the truth, which I do believe in most cases. Here, the changing of the stories on behalf of the lawyer has led to rife speculation. Now he's PO'd, technical legal term, because people are coming up with theories. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut 393.

This is him speaking to News Nation now. Listen, 393, Tyler. If you've got the FBI, the local PD, an independent news reporter all here at the same time seeing the same thing, you've got, quote unquote, surveillance of the laundries 24-7 by protesters and people of the press. When did you think these items were planted? And do you really think the laundries had skeletal remains of their son, you know, in a plastic bag and brought them to the preserve? Do you realize how ludicrous that is? How aggravating, how maddening it is to even hear those things? And the fact that it's being put out there by the press as well? That's where my level of frustration and anger is coming from. Maybe somebody with a platform should step up and say, hey, knock it off.

This is just silly. So if I'm the only one who has to say that this is hot wash because I didn't want to say the word bullshit, then I'm going to say it. It's bullshit. And I'm sorry if John King Public doesn't get that. You know what? That's your fault, Bertolini. Exactly what Sheryl McCollum said. And that is why the blanket rule is shut your pie hole.

But apparently they didn't teach him that at law school. And if he hasn't noticed, all of us have been saying now, how it doesn't make logical sense that the parents planted items because that would mean they planted a body too. So I guess that's just another opportunity for Bertolino to spout off. Masa Saidi, he's angry. He, the lawyer, is angry. What about Gabby Petito's family? He needs to just go away. The Petito family has suffered enough, and now they will never have justice.

Why is he saying he, a lawyer with no connection to this case, is angry? We're trained as lawyers to be advocates in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion. Because when we try to take on that role, which we're not qualified to do and shouldn't be doing, this is the result. You have the driving public opinion, offending people, exploiting some of these facts to the detriment of Gabby's family. You know, you don't hear these same arguments coming from the other side. This family is grieving and trying to make sense of what happened. But there is now the pendulum seems to be swinging as there's a decreased appreciation for these spontaneous comments that we hear the lawyer making. That's for sure.

I think that he recognizes that as well. At least he will if he doesn't yet. Well, another thing is I don't appreciate him cursing throughout his comments that relate to Gabby. But that's a whole nother can of worms. That was Wendy Patrick speaking. Was that Wendy or Masa? Masa, go ahead. I just wanted to say, he did say in several interviews, now is not the time to talk about the Gabby Petito case. And you imagine the impact that would have on Nicole

Schmidt. But he wasn't just a lawyer for this family. We found out that, you know, he's known them for 25 years. He has talked to Chris. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. He's not just a lawyer. He's known him 25 years for what? For what? Did they go to the same church, the same synagogue? Did they have dinner together? No. He probably knows them from being their lawyer. He is a lawyer. Is there any suggestion he knows them in a social or friendship way? He said he's known Brian since he was a small child. He said he cried upon getting the news yesterday that this is hitting him hard. So he doesn't say that he knew Brian as an adult, but he did to me. My impression

in listening to him was that he was personally friends with Chris Laundrie. Well, that may be true, but let's not take the focus off what this is all about. This is all about a dead girl, a dead girl, Gabby Petito. And here's the rub, Joe Scott Morgan. Here's a fly in the ointment. We're probably going to be able to figure out what happened to Brian Laundrie. Exactly what happened. That he went off into the woods, overridden by guilt about murdering Gabby and killed himself. But we may never really know what happened to Gabby. Yeah, unless he made some kind of admission in this notebook that they keep referring to. Hold the thought.

Karen Stark, the thought. Karen Stark, The Notebook. You know, I guarantee you it's going to be like the scribblings of a fifth grade girl. That's what we're going to find. I mean, if you look, look at Brian Laundrie. Look, I hate to say it again, but when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. He's not working.

He's living off his parents. His girlfriend paid for the trip. He's even using her debit card after he kills her. Every time I see him in one of her vlogs, he's reading or writing. What do you think is going to be in there? You know what? At his age, you know what I was doing? I had two jobs and was in law school trying to be in there. You know what? At his age, you know what I was doing? I had two jobs

and was in law school trying to get myself through. My husband, same thing, working a 60, 70 hour week. My dad shipped off to the Navy and he is using his girlfriend's money and van to go on a trip, an extended two-month trip, and writing his thoughts and his innermost feelings. So what do you think is going to be in the notebook, Karen Stark? Whatever is in there, I really do believe, Nancy, that it's going to be all about defending himself whatever he it seems to me that he definitely left it there to be found and that he wants to tell his side of whatever he's concocted of this story and how he was led to do whatever deed he did to kill her if he even is that specific but it's all about making sure that he's seen

in the right light. Well, I can guarantee you this is going to be about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. That's what it's going to be about. I can tell you that right now. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, back to you. Yeah, you know, and I'm hoping that they've secured this notebook to the point where they've got it up to the FBI crime lab where the question document section. But that that's another point. I want to get back to the body. You know, going back to what Mac was saying just a moment ago relative to this timeline, Tom is critical here because we're trying to figure out how long this body had been out there at this reserve? How long had he been down in this hostile environment relative to the weather? And this is going to be hard to determine.

What's key about this, Nancy, is we don't really know how long the skeletonized remains, remember, they keep saying that have been out there. And it takes a while for a body to become skeletonized. Joe Scott, I mean, you're the death investigator having seen literally thousands of death scenes. But it struck me, how can he already be skeletonized? It's very simple. This environment is so very harsh, Nancy. Heat, heat speeds everything up. I mean, it just by a huge factor. So the hotter it is and also the relative humidity, the tissue will literally come apart from the bones. And this, to be quite blunt with you, this is drawing predators in there, scavengers in there. I think that's probably why we only have a partial skeleton. But Nancy, one of the things that just is bugging me is the fact that they're saying, and the reporter said it in the first bit, they said there was a partial skull. Nancy,

the skull, please hear me right. The skull is- Does that mean he shot himself? Let me just say this. The skull is one of the most robust bony structures that we have in our skeleton. Skulls do not just break down. Is that true? I've always heard that the jawbone was strong. It's very strong as well as the pelvis, but the structure of the skull is amazing. It doesn't just automatically come apart. It generally takes some kind of force, some kind of trauma to break it apart. Now we do know that at least there was enough there for them to do

what? Get a dental identification, either from the maxillary teeth, the upper teeth, or the jawbone, the mangillary teeth. And see, it's when you say things like that, that's why we keep you hanging around. Thank you, Nancy. See, because right there, now when you say it, it suddenly appears to be obvious. But you know what? He's right. Part of the skull is missing in one of the, if not the, strongest bones in the body, the skull. Did he shoot himself? But yet, as Joe Scott has just pointed out, they could do a dental comparison. So that means, go ahead and finish your thought. Go ahead, Joe Scott. Yes. And this is something that, you know, based on my experience working in the medical examiner's office, it takes it takes a few moments to get dental records.

All right. They turn this thing around so quick, Nancy. It's almost like they had these records in their back pocket. I mean, this was within 24 hours. Many times dentists require a subpoena. Anybody on the panel, you're all qualified for this one. You know, if someone said, okay, we got to do dental records on, okay, I'm not going to use my husband. I'll use you, Jackie. Jackie, I would have to go find, wow, who's her dentist? How do I find the dentist? Let me look through her cell phone. Let me look through her credit card payments.

When did she last go to the dentist? To find the dentist, and you've got to convince the dentist to give you the records, or as Joe Scott accurately pointed out, use a subpoena. They didn't have to do that. So what does that tell you? Well, that tells me, again, listening to the attorney, he cleared some things up yesterday, and this would be one of those things. When he says again that, you know, John Q. Public is, you know, full of bullshit. Here's part of his bullshit. He could have told us this a while back.

The family already gave the dental records and DNA for this very comparison if it came about, which, again, would have told us early on if he had released that information that that's what the family, unfortunately, was thinking had happen to their child. I think you're right. Yep. I got to say, you know, going back, Mac, do you remember, Nancy, do you remember it was, what, a week and a half ago? Those two FBI agents showed back up at the house, remember?

And they were right. They had they had two boxes with them. And I swear they look like boxes to retrieve DNA. And I think they were probably retrieving using a swab to get it from the parents so they could do the parental line. That's what I think. Speaking of the lawyer disseminating a lot of, um, let me just say unwelcome comments. I want you to take a listen to this. This is our cut 386, him speaking with Tom Lomas, NBC. Listen to this. Today is not the day to discuss the Gabby Petito case. I understand that that was the impetus,

that that is the reason why all this is happening. But that doesn't explain why people come up with these nonsensical theories as to yesterday's events and some other events. It doesn't explain, Tom, why major news organizations just yesterday. Yeah, what explains it is all of the misinformation and veiled comments that the lawyer has released. And now I'm wondering, did you hear Masa Saidi at one point? He, the lawyer, referred to the, quote, Gabby situation, the situation, her dead body is a situation that his client left to rot. That's a, quote, situation. Did you hear that? I don't remember hearing exactly that.

He did. He said that, the Gabby situation. He definitely wasn't talking about Gabby Petito at all. He wanted to take that away. He wanted to take the conversation away from that. I will tell you another thing that he said that stood out to me is he said that Brian was very upset when he left on September 13th. The family was so worried on September 13th.

At one point, he said the painful saga since September 13th. I thought that was interesting that he's saying that the pain started for the family on September 13th. When we know that, you know, was angry and upset that the father, Chris Laundrie, tried to keep him from leaving, but he left. Let's take a listen to Erica 395, top story with Tom Llamas. No, they did not. What I can tell you is that Brian was very upset when he left, and Chris conveyed to me several times

that, you know, he wished he didn't let him go, but he couldn't stop him. So this has been a painful saga for them since September 13th. It's been a long haul. But Brian is a grown man, young man, 22 years old. He wanted to walk out the door. He was entitled to walk out the door. What do you make of that, Cheryl McCollum? Nancy, again, part of my problem with this guy is if that were the case and he leaves the house upset and dad tried to stop him and couldn't, why weren't the police called?

Why did they not insist on going out there with them that very night, the next day? Why, when we're all watching this unfold, they're showing you an aerial view of where they're searching every day. And if you know he's in the park versus the reserve, why aren't you correcting that? I don't understand how any of this has unfolded without them losing their mind. Is that you, Marsha? Jump in. That was me, Wendy Patrick. Go ahead, Marsha. I'll follow you. Just really quickly, the attorney does claim the parents did look for him on the 13th, on the 14th, and on the 15th. Just want to make that quick point of clarification. Okay, back to you 15th. Just want to make that quick point of

clarification. Okay, back to you, Wendy. Masa and Cheryl are bringing up some really good points about this timeline and the lawyer's role. So it's focused on the family right now. Now, especially given the first day the park's open, parents go out, they know that their son uses this particular trail. But as you mentioned, they didn't correct when they were all searching in the wrong place. And so obviously now the lawyer feels like he has to sort of mitigate the damage that might have been done now that we're working backwards because you know the civil suits might be on the horizon.

There may be wrongful death suits. And at the very least, that's the way the investigation will be going, at least in part. So the line this lawyer has to walk is making sure we're not downplaying the tragedy that happened to Gabby Petito. But I think he's also trying to get almost a sneak preview of the evidence

that's going to come out in court, at least in the court of public opinion, once the focus shifts to the family as it seems to be already doing. I feel very strongly, Cheryl McCollum, that the reason we think he killed himself, the reason that he killed himself, I believe, is because he was overwhelmed with guilt at murdering Gabby.

Of course, and that's why the parents didn't want him to leave on the 13th. But I'm going to say again, I want to try to be very clear. The parents may have gone back out there. My point is why did they not call everybody they know? Why wasn't the sister and brother-in-law out there? Why weren't they calling friends and coworkers? Why weren't they demanding law enforcement meet them out there on the 13th and the 14th and the 15th and the 16th? Law enforcement says they didn't know nothing until the 17th.

So, again, we are left to believe people that have changed the date on us, changed the location on us, changed the fact when the cell phone was purchased or not. So we have been misled whether on purpose or not. You know, Nancy, I want to say again that this guy is on a soapbox and listen to what Cheryl's saying, what everyone's saying. He's talking so much. He's taking advantage of this opportunity to be in front of the camera and express his views and entertain everybody. But he's getting everything confused. He's giving misinformation.

He's getting the public upset and continuing to go on. And then he's saying that everyone else is stupid. And he doesn't want to lock his clients into his statements. That's the other big problem is lawyer can't get out there and make statements. This is what the dad knew. This is what he thought. And then when this finally gets to court, that's not at all what the father or the mother wants to say. That's one of the other issues there. Now we are assuming a key phrase he used was he's a grown man. He can do what he wants to do. And your point is?

My point is, is that he's trying to say that the parents had nothing to do with this. This is all on Laundrie. We have all been assuming that Brian Laundrie committed suicide. And I guess you would argue, Joe Scott Morgan, that he did that by gunshot since part of his skull is missing, yet his dental records were intact. Yes or no? No, I don't have any evidence to that. Well, part of his skull is missing. Yeah, I know. And so I don't know. Maybe he was bludgeoned for all I know. Maybe he fell out of the tree. I mean, we don't have enough evidence. It's time to say that. Okay. As a matter of fact, take a listen to our cut three, seven, six. This is

the Lee County Sheriff Carmine Marcino. Listen. Today, when I walked back there, I got to see firsthand the treacherous conditions that they were working on. We're talking about water levels up above almost the chest area, rattlesnakes, moccasins, alligators, and these heroes go out there. So what I'm looking at is the possibility that he did not commit suicide. What about that? Straight back out to Masa Saidi joining us from WFLA-TV there on the scene. Do we have any indication this was suicide or are people assuming that? Right now, people are assuming that, but the lawyer, let me tell you one thing that hit me

so hard during the Tom Yamas interview. Tom Yamas asked any idea of how Brian may have ended his life and the attorney didn't correct him, didn't say this isn't a suicide, you're making an assumption. So I don't know if I'm reading too much into that, but Tom Yamas specifically said, assumed that Brian had ended his life and the attorney did not correct him. But as of right now, we don't have any manner of death here. If it was natural, if it was an accident, if it was a suicide, we just do not know at this point. Back to you, Joe Scott Morgan. We're talking about the notebook that may or may not be in the dry bag, which coincidentally, if you were going to

leave a suicide note, I would think you would leave it in the vehicle for your parents to find it was not in the vehicle. Explain to me how that suicide note, if it's been in the water, can be restored. Okay. First thing we need to understand is that it's a paper product. So it's cellulose based. That means it's made out of organic material, tree material. Okay. First thing we need to understand is that it's a paper product, so it's cellulose-based. That means it's made out of organic material, tree material, okay? So what they have to do, what they have to do is essentially freeze it. And I literally mean that, Nancy. They have to freeze this thing in place so that they can stop the decomposition, just like a body, organic, remember? Stop this decompositional process with the paper because it's just falling apart at a molecular level.

Then they have to take it and treat it like an archive, like you would, I don't know, one of our precious documents in this country. And they have to have a question document examiner under control, very highly controlled circumstances to go in. And once this thing is settled, gently open. Remember, they said they haven't even opened this thing yet so they're actually keeping it in what we refer to as stasis that means kind of frozen in time until they can get it there in a secure location and then try to enhance and my suspicion is this they're going to use something like infrared uh lighting it's called alternative lighting sourcing in order to enhance what's in there,

because as we all know, ink smudges. And so they're going to have to go back. And one of the things they're going to be looking at is how much pressure did he apply with a pen, for instance. And sometimes with the pressure, you can actually pick up on what was written, even though the ink has been smudged or is running. Okay, let's get real just a moment about what may or may not be in that notebook. We've already heard Karen Stark, psychologist out of New York, joining us to use Cheryl McCollum. We've been on a lot of scenes, homicide and suicide. At best, what do you expect to get out of that notebook? I think it's a notebook that he's had. He had the dry bag ready. He had the backpack ready.

He had some type of writing instrument with him. There's going to be some of his past drawings and doodlings. You know, he liked to make those almost cartoon-type figures. It's probably going to be a detailed, you know, type summary, his viewpoint of what happened. And, I mean, hopefully that's what's going to be in there. And hopefully it'll shed some light for both families. You know, I find it very interesting that they did not, the parents did not go to the exact spot where they claim they thought he would have been hiking. Could you shed some light on that, Mazza Sayidi?

Well, what the attorney says, if you want to believe him, is he said that, in fact, yes, on October 7th, Chris Laundrie did not go to that exact location from my recollection of the interviews. He did say that, but he has said that all along from the 17th when he was officially reported missing to North Port PD so that the search could presume. He says that that general area was identified to law enforcement. And so law enforcement looked at the trails in that general area. But because of water, law enforcement was not able to go off the trail. And I guess the question for me now is why that wasn't searched again once the water receded before they reopened the park. You know, I find the behavior very unusual, how everyone in the laundry camp wants us to not think about Gabby. You know, this morning, Gabby Petito's family is waking up full of pain

and an emptiness and a hopelessness that now they'll never really know what happened and they will never have justice. That is agonizing, Karen Stark. I can't think of anything worse. You're talking about their child, Nancy. You, of all people, right? You know, when it comes to your children, nothing is more important and they won't really know what they're going to have.

If they find that in the notebook is some kind of defense that will make Brian appear to be innocent and have, you know, been forced to do something who knows what he came up with, but they will never really know what happened to their daughter. And that, that is awful. And you know, Wendy Patrick, I've seen that with many crime victims that never get justice and it never goes away. No, it never does. And you know, the best we can hope for is some level of closure because they understand their questions are answered. They have what they need

to heal and move on. But this is not one of those cases. And that's why our heart goes out to them and to disregard their pain and just focus on Brian just makes that worse. And that's part of what we've been listening to the last couple of days. And we hope we can turn that around. Take a listen to our cut 394. This is, again, the family lawyer trying to shed light on what happened when Brian Laundrie walks out of the house. Listen. So just one more thing about that, and I promise I will let it go. Did your clients go out to the reserve prior to yesterday morning on their own at any time? Yes, they did back in early September. I shouldn't say early

September, mid-September, which would have been the 14th and the 15th. Were they there with Brian or with authorities? No, they were there on their own. That was the day after Brian had went for the hike and didn't come home. And what did they do there? They walked around the trails looking for Brian initially. Is this when they picked up the car? On the second day, they picked up the car, correct. Did they find any items or anything that led them to believe that he was out there at that time? Beside the car? No.

So to you, Cheryl McCollum, again, the lawyer seemingly putting out a lot of theory. Wait in. Nancy, it's just, I'm over it. Because here's the reality. They knew a location. They had pinpointed a very narrow place to start

from the very beginning. But I don't think that was conveyed to law enforcement until four days later on the 17th. The reality is when law enforcement says, well, that was full of water and all that sort of stuff, dead bodies float. Period. Dogs can hit, cadaver dogs can hit on odors underwater. We put those dogs on boats all the time and they alert. And the reality here is you have somebody that did whatever they did and whatever happened to them in a location that should have been saturated with police the day he didn't come home, the next day that he didn't come home. Helicopters weren't used. Dogs weren't used. Nothing happened until the 17th, and I still maintain with that attorney and those parents, if he did not come home the night of the 13th or the 14th,

they should have been screaming from the rooftop to get law enforcement out there. They should have called everybody they know. And that did not happen. Will there be charges against the Laundrie parents? What about it, Masa Saidi? And that is the question that comes about now. The attorney did talk about that yesterday. He said that there had been conversations that had been had with authorities. And he said, these are just conversations that are ordinarily had. He said that the FBI did not pressure or coerce the family in any way. And he says that no deal has been made. That was in response to questions from reporters about whether the family was now cooperating with law enforcement. You know, Masa Saidi, for there to be any prosecution, there has to be an overt act.

Simply not calling police is not going to qualify for a prosecution. Yeah, my understanding from talking with legal experts is that they would have had to try to, like, clean up something from the van, try to cover up the crime for there to be. But wait a minute. Hold on. Cheryl McCullough just got Morgan Karen Stark, Wendy Patrick. What about from August 29 when they know he's coming home without Gabby in Gabby's car using her debit card until the 11th when they all go camping. Until the 13th when he goes missing. I mean, what about all that time? What were they doing? I'll tell you what I think the real devil in this whole thing is.

The first phone call from Gabby's family to Brian's mama, she did not answer the phone. She knew that day. She knew not to answer the phone. She wasn't going to even risk having to make a statement to those folks. She knew long before. The attorney says he left on the 13th. They knew long before that. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.