Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - BUSTED! ARMED AND DANGEROUS Crab Walking Killer Attacked by CANINES

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Danelo Cavalcante has been found in a shed behind a business with a focused search area. Late last night, a DEA airplane used thermal imaging to direct police to the ground to Cavalcante's hiding place. Police announced in a press conference this morning that shortly after 8 a.m., tactical teams converged on the area, using the element of surprise. Before Cavalcante realized it, he was surrounded. The double killer began to crawl through an underbrush and a canine unit was unleashed. Cavalcante was bleeding from his head when he was taken into custody.   Joining Nancy Grace Today: Neama Rahmani– Former Federal Prosecutor, Legal Commentator, and President of West Coast Trial Lawyers; Author: “Harvard to Hashtag;” INSTAGRAM: @Neamarahmani, Twitter: @NeamaRahmaniWestCoastTrialLawyers.com, INSTAGRAM: @Neamarahmani, TWITTER: @NeamaRahmani Caryn Stark – NYC Psychologist; Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: “Caryn Stark"/Instagram: carynpsych Irv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Douglas MacGregor – Geographic Profiler (specializes in serial and violent crime, missing persons, and locating clandestine burial sites); Twitter: @TheGeoProfiler Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist Eddie Kadhim – Reporter for FOX29 Philadelphia; Facebook: Eddie Kadhim Journalist/Twitter: @KadhimWrites/Instagram: eddiekadhim See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It's over. Double killer. Danilo Cavalcante, is in custody. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to this. Last night, shortly after midnight, a series of events started to unfold. First, we had a burglar alarm at a residence near Pryzer Road within the perimeter.

Our people investigated that, did not find Cavalcante there or anyone else, but it started to bring some of our people into that area. We had been searching an area not far from there already with some tactical teams that night. There was an aircraft overhead utilizing FLIR technology and close to 1 a.m. picked up a heat signal that they began to track. Okay, I'm going to go from A to Z. First, with an all-star panel, I want to go to Eddie Kadam, investigative reporter with Fox 29 out of Philly. Eddie, thank you for being with us. I want to focus on what I just heard. Are you telling me that at 1 a.m. LA law enforcement was up in the air looking for any heat, heated movement in the brush and in the woods, 1 a.m. there in the air with a helicopter? 1 a.m. a plane was up in the air, flying around in circles,

the way that it was described, it's like a cone that can kind of look down into the woods. So, Eddie Kadam, while everybody else is asleep in their beds, you got law enforcement up there working through the night, 24-7. Now, I understand it was a DEA plane? Yes, that's correct, Nancy. A DEA plane with infrared technology on it. Wow. Fixed wing.

Guys, with me, an all-star panel. Irv Brandt joining me. Douglas McGregor joining me. Dr. Gorniak, Karen Stark, and Nima Rahmani. To you, Douglas McGregor, geographic profiler specializing in the hunt for missing people and fugitives. You can find him at the geoprofiler. Explain to me how the infrared system works. Dan, we've got a DEA fixed winged plane with infrared capability. Just as you mentioned, the plane flying over, they scan a certain area and

they try to pick up the heat signature from objects below. So obviously, they're looking for a human in this case. It could pick up animals or other objects as well. And Cavalcante, if he knows that this technology is being used, he can put in countermeasures to avoid that technology. When you say that there are countermeasures to fight thermal imaging, I mean, most of us, well, okay, I have been on searches where thermal images are used. But most people only know about thermal imaging through like a James Bond movie or something like that, high technology. So what is a potential countermeasure that can be used against thermal imagery? That's what Ellie is doing up in the air at 1 a.m. What's a countermeasure to thermal imaging technology?

A countermeasure can be a barrier. So he could be inside and it may not penetrate whatever he's behind. Like, for example, a wall, water could be a countermeasure. Anything that significantly cools down his body could be a countermeasure. Yeah, I see. I see what you're saying, Douglas McGregor, a geographic profiler. As a matter of fact, there were problems late last night with the thermal imaging. Take a listen to our cut 78 from Fox 2 9. In the beginning of this, it was so hot that they were saying they were having issues. So they have been using thermal imaging from the beginning. But the problem is we are dealing with temperatures in the 90s and the heat index was so high that it was hard to make that happen to have it be effective. But we have had

rain and things have cooled off over the past 24 hours or so. So while they are up there trying to get a thermal image of where they think Danilo Cavalcante may be. And remember, this is a two time killer. He shot a guy at a food truck reportedly over a car repair, and then he stabbed his girlfriend in front of her children. That's who we're talking about. Cops desperately trying to find Cavalcante before he can strike again. Let's do Lieutenant Colonel George Bivens, cut 83. Tactical teams made a decision to secure that area, that smaller area, as best they could and hold it through the storm and until we could bring additional resources in and bring aircraft back overhead to ensure that we did not have an issue with an escape.

That resumed early this morning, and shortly after 8 a.m. tactical teams converged on the area where the heat source was. They were able to move in very quietly. They had the element of surprise. Cavalcante did not realize he was surrounded until that had occurred. As they said, we don't want an issue with an escape. You mean another escape? The third escape? So let me understand something. Joining me right now, Irv Brandt, Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Branch. He's been all around the world trying to find fugitives, just like Danilo Cavalcante, author of Solo Shot, Curse of the Blue Stone, and Flying Solo, Top of the World, both on Amazon.

Irv Brandt, so how do you know you finally get a beat on somebody through thermal imagery? Is it like what we see in the movies, where you actually see a figure crawling around? Yes, it is actually like that. I've been in a number of manhunts where we've used handheld FLIR devices for thermal imaging and also in aircraft to helicopters fixed wing. I bet you have. Wait a minute. Most people listening have never been up in a helicopter or a fixed wing, where they're conducting thermal imagery detective work. Just explain it. What do you see? What do you notice?

I mean, when you're looking down at a Dinsley Wooden area, I'm sure there's all sorts of critters and creatures. How do you know what you're seeing? Nancy, the devices are very advanced and what what you're looking at on the screen is you'll see a darker area which is the cooler area then you'll pick up the heat signature which contrasts to the darker area then as it's moving you can tell by the way it's moving whether you're looking at a person whether you're looking at something like a deer or maybe, you know, something smaller like a raccoon. You mean it's that detailed?

It's blurry, but with practice and with experience, yes, you can tell the difference between a human and an animal. Have you ever seen a sonogram, Irv Brandt? Yes, that's spot on, Nancy. That's what you're looking at. This is just amazing to me. What did youogram, Irv Brandt? Yes, that's spot on, Nancy. That's what you're looking at. This is just amazing to me. What did you say, except for the colors? Right.

It's the colors that the heat signature is giving off. So it's so finely tuned. You can tell if you're looking at a deer, a rabbit, a possum, or a person. Wow. Did not realize exactly how accurate the thermal imaging really is. And, you know, back to you, investigative reporter with Fox 29, Eddie Kadem. Eddie, it was a DEA plane. How did the locals get their mitts on a DEA plane? They had every resource available to them.

And as the days got on, they just increased their presence. Bringing in, there was DEA. They had the CERT team. I was told moving in, the team, the squad, and it was 20 to 25 tactical guys, some of the most serious guys you want looking for him that got there quickly. 25 tactical guys. What does that mean, Irv Brandt? 25 tactical guys. That's basically saying SWAT. Yeah. They're bringing in the big guns, heavily armored people. Even though we've got DEA Drug Enforcement Agency, which is extremely, extremely powerful. Listen, I was a Fed for three years. After that, I was a felony prosecutor. I could never get the feds to help me on a single case. They got, they have their own cases to deal with. They're going to help some County prosecutor trying to solve a murder. They're not going to

help. They've got their own basket of worms to deal with. So hats off to the locals that get the DEAN on this. But guess what? He wasn't caught by thermal technology in the end. Bow wow. Is that a hint? Take a listen to our cut 84. He began to crawl through thick underbrush, taking his rifle with him as he went. One of the Customs and Border Control teams, BORTAC, had a dog with them. They released the dog. Some of our PSP CERT members were also there, had him surrounded. The dog subdued him and team members from both of those teams immediately moved in. He continued to resist but was forcibly taken into custody. No one was injured as a result of that. Excuse me. He did sustain

a minor bite wound. We had medical personnel at the scene and they took a look at that. Okay. I love the way that he kind of airbrushed that whole thing. The dog subdued him. Okay, he was covered in blood. The dog chewed him up. Let me remind you before you start feeling sorry for Cavalcante, he had a sawed-off rifle with him. He's already killed twice that we know of. You don't think he would have unleashed a hail of bullets on any law enforcement that came toward him once he could identify them in the dark? Unless that dog hadn't got to him first. Bloodied killer Danilo Cavalcante sniffed out by canines while lying under a pile of leaves and wood as the cops surreptitiously creeped up and surrounded him. crime stories with nancy grace eddie cate and with me investigative reporter fox 29 tell me every detail don't leave anything out about this particular juncture of the manhunt

all right so let's start with the the first sighting last night. There was a burglary alarm at a residence inside the perimeter. This is near Prizer a.m. They picked up a heat signal, heat signature, believed to be him, converged on that heat source. And so at the same time, though, some storms made it came in and that caused the aircraft to actually go down. But at this point, the teams are in position. And this is all information from the presser. So they're out there in the dark and in the rain after they pick up a heat signature. Is that right? Yeah, and this is a serious storm. It's thunder.

It's lightning, too, and rough conditions. But they didn't give up. They stayed out there even when the plane had to come down. Okay, then what happened? So they converge on him. And as you were just saying, spot on, very sneaky. They saw him before he saw them. So he didn't know he was getting rolled up on until he was getting rolled up

on. Essentially. He was, we're told in a prone position, uh, when he noticed he was surrounded the way law enforcement put it, he didn't even have a chance to get his gun out. Once, once the engagement started, they said it was about five minutes total. He was trying to crawl away. Uh. Once the engagement started, they said it was about five minutes total. He was trying to crawl away. They released that dog. Shout out to dogs everywhere. Hero today. They released the dog. The dog got to him. The officers were able to get to him, bring him in. Take a listen to our friends at Fox 29. The first moments when he was captured, we were there. Sky Fox was showing um all of the police as

they gathered around him see all the wood and they're wiping his face and cords of wood wiping his face possibly of blood who knows what the takedown was like and so we're learning now as we take a look in the juxtaposition here when they first captured him when they first caught him they put his hands behind his back to now he's being taken away to SCI Phoenix. We've learned that he was found inside of a shed there at Prissers. That's where they found him. And he did have that stolen rifle with him. How fast it would have been for him to take that rifle out and start shooting. That's the question. Guys, for those of you just joining us, the manhunt is over. Calvacanti found and brought out covered in blood after a canine got a hold of him. But that canine disarmed him, so he never had a chance to start firing on law enforcement.

Dr. Jan Gorniak joining us, renowned forensic pathologist, former medical examiner of Clark County. That's Vegas. And you know, as well as I do, there's never a lack of business for a medical examiner of Clark County. That's Vegas. And you know, as well as I do, there's never a lack of business for a medical examiner in Vegas. Dr. Gorniak, explain why he was bleeding from the head. And isn't it true that around your face and your nose, your neck, you bleed so much more profusely than you would from, say, a cut on your arm. Yes. Good morning, everybody. You're absolutely correct. Your scalp, especially, is very vascular. So if he was in a high energy state, as in being, you know, trying to get away from a dog or trying

to get away from law enforcement, his blood pressure is high. So any cut to the head is going to bleed terribly. I mean, it looks like you are like bleeding to death because your scalp is so vascular. So any cut he has is going to look like it's profusely bleeding compared to his arms or his legs. And it sounds like the brush that he was in, I don't believe the bleeding from his head is from the dog, but probably from other, you know, the brush or whatever else he was in contact with. I think the dog bit him on the head. That's what I think.

But when you say heavily vascular, you mean a lot of veins? Right, a lot of blood vessels. You're correct. A lot of blood vessels. I remember at a camp when I was younger, one of my playmates fell, hit his head on a rock, and I really thought he was going to die. That's how much it was bleeding. And then once you clean it up, it was just this little, a little cut.

So yes, if you're in a high energy state, meaning, you know, your blood pressure is up, you're moving around, your blood is pumping harder and faster so your scalp is going to bleed excessively but not enough to to die from and jackie is waving a note at me yes you're right he was bitten by the dog and he was crawling away when the dog caught him and started chewing. Wow. Thank heaven. Because this guy had his sawed off right behind him and a backpack that I'm still curious about. Where the hay did he get a backpack?

Guys, the escaped prisoner, Danilo Calvocante, is a dude by canines, captured in the early, early morning hours while we were all asleep. He was looking at life behind bars without parole in the murder, the brutal stabbing death of his girlfriend in front of her children. He was in a local jail that they call a prison. He had not made it to a max security prison yet. And he actually scaled the wall like a spider so called crab walking up the

two sides of a hallway an alcove to get to the ceiling through barbed wire run across the ceiling jump down and make off over an hour passed before anyone realized he was even gone the guard on watch has been fired he had an inappropriate cell phone with him. In other words, it was against regulations. I don't know what he was doing, scrolling through a dating app, TikTok. Who knows? But he wasn't watching Cavalcante, one of the most dangerous prisoners they had in the facility.

Now, this is after he killed somebody in his homeland. Brazil goes and hides in the jungle for weeks on end, makes it out of the jungle to Puerto Rico, hides out there until he can make it to the prize, the U.S. What more do we know about the takedown in the early morning hours? Take a listen to Hour Cut 65, our friends at CBS. Jim Varnes and his wife, they knew Cavalcante was around their area, and he says they've been very vigilant, locking their doors, locking their cars as this search goes on. But nothing really could have prepared them for what happened last night, when their home actually became part of this investigation. We had a very interesting night. It was very sleepless. How did the Varnses,

minding their own business, suddenly become part of the search for a double killer? Take a listen to our Cut 66 CBS. It started as a pretty typical Monday for Jim Varnes and his wife on Fairview Road. Jim's wife went out for groceries, then they sat down to relax. We got our groceries in and then we locked everything up. And we're just sitting here watching MASH TV. They knew escaped Chester County inmate Danilo Cabalcante was around their area, but the Barnes never thought they'd be dragged into the case. Then they saw the police lights outside. Maybe five, ten minutes later, they were all here.

And we're like, what the heck's going on? What the heck's going on? You got a double killer outside your door. That's what's going on. Listen. Barnes says police told him a passerby saw a man crouching in the field across from their home and called 911. Then his wife made the discovery. Jim's grass-cutting boots were missing from the back porch. It would be right down there where that where the uh where that uh chair was right there. Police now believe Cavalcante stole the boots from the Barnes home Monday night no more than 20 feet from where Jim and his wife were watching TV. Barnes says investigators also found what's believed to be Cavalcante's shoes on their property. To Karen Stark joining us us, renowned psychologist, also TV and radio trauma

expert. You can find her at karenstark.com. That's Karen with a C. Karen Stark, thank you for being with us. I guess what's so disturbing to me that I can't really convey is that this guy was going to be shipped off to a max facility prison the next day. That's why he had to escape then. That's why he couldn't be caught. That's why he was willing to kill again if he had to. That's why he had a sawed-off shotgun with him, a.22, right there in his backpack. When you have somebody cornered like Calvo Conte, and they're looking at life without parole, they'll do anything.

Explain what I'm talking about, Karen Stark. It's desperation, Nancy. So when you're telling the story about them watching television, I'm thinking to myself, they have no idea what could have happened to them because this guy would do anything. What does he have to lose? He would do anything to make sure that he's not captured. And so their life was really at stake. Guys, this family and other families suddenly get the message. Take a listen to our cut 76 Fox 29 Philly. A reverse 911 call was sent to residents in the area of the perimeter. And quote, what it said was, this is a message from Pennsylvania State Police. The search for Danilo Cavalcante is over.

The subject is now in custody. So the word has been spreading. The reverse phone calls have been made. It's over. Well, what does that mean to anybody on the panel? A reverse 911 call goes out to the whole community. How does that work? Straight out to you, Irv Brandt or Douglas McGregor, how does that work? Well, Nancy, in an emergency situation, the homes in the area, in a 911 area, can receive messages,

and it's like an automated message telling people about different dangerous situations. You mean like an Amber Alert? Correct. That pops up on your phone with that crazy piercing scream. Correct. So it basically goes out to every phone number that police have in their registry, correct? Correct. Within that 911 operating area.

Ah, gotcha. So that's where the 911, that's the operating area. Guys, joining me right now, in addition to our other guests that you've been listening to, Nima Rahmani is joining us. He's a renowned former federal prosecutor turned trial lawyer, president and co-founder of the West Coast Trial Lawyers, author of Harvard to Hashtag. Neema, thank you so much for being with us. You and I have both dealt with prisoners with nothing to lose. That is why when a verdict is read in a courtroom, multiple sheriffs come in.

If you know what's happening, you'll see that armed sheriffs, bailiffs, are at every window, in front of every window, in front of every door. They're in front of the jury. They may stand in front of the prosecutor. I didn't like that because I couldn't see. I'd have them behind me. There'll be one to the side of the judge's bench so they can jump in front of the judge's bench if they have to. But you want everyone to be able to see and hear the judge and the prosecutor. In my case,

I always had to read the verdict, but that's for a reason. Once a guilty verdict, if it is a guilty verdict, is read, that defendant is no longer innocent. He or she is going to jail and you can never underestimate what that person will do. I've had a defendant lunge at me in the courtroom. If it hadn't been for my investigator, I don't know what would have happened because I did not expect it. I was standing there waiting for the, I think the jury to come in, just looking at the jury deliberation room for them to come back in to resume evidence. And all of a sudden the guy leaps across the desk at me with a pen, I guess to stab me. If my investigator hadn't been sitting there, I don't know what would have happened. So you can't underestimate the mindset of Danilo Calvocante at this moment.

Well, Nancy, you can. And there's a reason his mom said that she prefers that he actually dies and go back to prison. So if someone's mom's telling them that, think of what the mindset of a double murderer is. I'm shocked that he didn't try to shoot his way out of this or fight or, I mean, obviously reports are coming back. But, yeah, if you were to spend the rest of your life in prison, there's a lot of people who would rather die than experience that. Well, Nima, I was saving this as a little surprise for you. But speaking of the mom that gave birth, this is her spawn. Take a listen. Hour cut 72. Our friends at CrimeOnline.com. Daniela Cavalcante's mother is defending her

son while admitting he did kill his former girlfriend in front of her two children. But the fugitive's mother tells the New York Times he did it, but he had no choice. Irisima Cavalcante said, quote, did it happen? It happened, but it happened because of the stranglehold she put on him, the stance she took with him. It wasn't femicide. He had to. He had no other choice, unquote. The choice she speaks of, Deborah Brandeo was tired of being threatened and beaten by Cavalcante and threatened she would go to police in Pennsylvania and tell them about Cavalcante, the illegal immigrant wanted for murder in Brazil

for stabbing a friend at a food truck in 2017. That is the corner Cavalcante's mother is speaking. Okay, let me understand this. You know what? I'm just a JD. I need to shrink. To you, Karen Stark, mommy is saying he had to butcher his girlfriend in front of her two

little children. They will never recover these little children. And mommy is saying, oh, my son, it's her fault. She got stabbed 39 times. And when she says stranglehold, she's not talking about the girlfriend having him in a stranglehold. She is talking about the claim that Deborah Brandeo, the girlfriend, stabbed 38 or 39 times. I'm going to go back to Dr. Gorniak about how you can't tell how many stab wounds exactly. 38 or 39 times. She didn't have him in a physical stranglehold. Oh, thank you, Jackie. Children ages seven and four see their mother stabbed 39 times to death. Seven and four. You think they're ever going to get

over that answer? No. Mommy is saying he spawned Calvacante. It's not his fault. She had him in a stranglehold in that. She told him if he didn't quit beating her all the time, she'd tell authorities he was wanted for murder back in Brazil. Karen Stark, thoughts? Well, I mean, Nancy, you know, mothers defend their children. We're not surprised

about that. Oh, you are not telling me that you expected this. What? This is about as extreme as you could possibly get. I mean, here is a mother and it just goes to show, talk about Spawn, why he turned out to be the person that he is, because he's allowed to get away with anything. He could kill somebody because they're threatening to go to the police. And she's saying that he had no choice, that she was strangling him. What? This is not your everyday mother.

This is the mother of a criminal. It's a monster mother. It's a monster mother. That will say it's okay to stab the girlfriend. Not just that, but Nancy, she also said she'd rather have him dead than be captured again. This is his mother would rather see him dead. Dr. Jan Gorniak joining us, very well-respected pathologist who has taken to the autopsy table there in Vegas many, many times, hundreds if not thousands of times to perform autopsies dr. Gorniak when someone is stabbed multiple times and

the first time this may have come into the public's consciousness was in the case of Jodi Arias I hate to even say her name I don't want to conjure her up out of the cauldron, but she stabbed her lover, Travis Alexander, I believe 29 times. Can you check me on that, Jackie? But the number of stabbings fluctuated depending on who was reporting it. And the reason was once you stab somebody so many times, you start stabbing them in the same place. The stab wounds begin to overlap each other. And it's very, oh, more than 27. See, I said 29 because another person said, some doctor said 29. But you stab on top of your stab wounds.

And it's hard for the medical examiner to determine exactly how many times you've stabbed somebody. Yes, you are correct. Also, not even that the wounds would start to overlap. You also don't have to remove the sharp force, the instrument, the knife, out of the body to continue stabbing. So therefore, you can have one stab wound into the body, but you can be moving the knife around and have, like, say, four or five stab wounds to the lung with one stab wound through the skin, if that makes any sense. So you don't withdraw the knife out.

So it could be, and you can see one stab wound on the body, but have four stab wounds on the inside to the heart and the lungs. So, yes, it's very difficult to count how many times someone is stabbed because they do overlap. People move, you know, because you're not just going to lay there or stand there and get stabbed. So the more you're moving, not only are you going to have stab wounds of your body, you're going to have, you know, defensive wounds on your hands if you grab the knife. So these are the worst cases for me. I really do not, of all the cases I do, except for pediatric cases, those babies, stab wound cases are the worst cases that I have to do. I hate stab cases.

I hate them. It's visceral. I can't tell you why I hate them more than other, except for child victims. I'm with you, Dr. Gorniak. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Gorniak, personal question. Do you compartmentalize? I mean, how do you just go about your day, your regular day,

like with your family or with your dog or your cat or going to the grocery store without visions of stabbing autopsies coming up in your head and dancing through like a parade right um i get i do get that that question quite a bit so when i'm doing my job, I'm a physician first. And that's the only way I can get my job done. So if I go into the autopsy room as Jan, it's not going to be a good thing for myself or my colleagues. room physician when people come through the door with blunt force trauma stab wounds gunshot wounds that emergency room physician has to respond and react and treat that patient unfortunately for on our side our patients are deceased so we put on our doctors had and we treat our patient and then we have to you know then Jan comes that so over the the years, it has taken time. But I have worked very intentional on leaving it in the autopsy room. Not to say that some cases do not stay with me.

Like I said, some of these, as I'm talking about it, I can picture a stab wound case I had back in 2007. So, but, you know, you just have to be professional, be that physician, treat your patient the best that you can, and then leave it in the autopsy room. Nima Romani is with me, former federal prosecutor turned trial lawyer. You can find him at westcoasttriallawyers.com, author of Harvard to Hashtag NEMA. I guess same thing for you. And I want to use this segue to talk about the mind of Danilo Cavalcante. You know, when, when I had one particular judge and I know this is unorthodox, but it worked whenever we'd have a big arraignment calendar or plea calendar, I would sit in a room, a conference room, of course, with armed guards, and the defense attorneys would come in and they would bring their jail

clients, who'd been brought over like four o'clock that morning, into the conference room. That's it on the other side of the table. And I'd go through the police report and all the evidence and let them look at everything there was, and I'd give them a plea deal. Of course, they would never want the plea deals that I gave them, but a lot of times they would get a plea. I would look at them and very often they would seem like a regular person to just look at them and their demeanor. But when you look at the police report and you see this guy has sodomized children for the last seven or eight years,

or this guy killed his own mom, or this guy gunned down a store clerk and his assistant for a pack of cigarettes, and you're looking at the guy and they seem charming and affable, it's freaky. And this guy, we know, Cavalcante, could be very, very charming. That's how he got the girlfriend to start with. Nima? Look, in the beginning, it's hard. You know, I put more than 1,000 people in federal prison,

and I didn't feel any sympathy for the defendants, but the family members. I didn't say sympathy! H-E-L-L-N-O! I didn't feel sympathy, but I was always intrigued, like looking at a spider in a box or the snake at the snake house at the zoo. I'm intrigued by how they can be so charming when I know they're a cold-blooded killer. Oh, no question. It was really those family members, right?

The kids, the girlfriends, the moms, right? They're crying, they're begging, they're pleading. But after a while, Nancy, you know, you just get desensitized and you realize that these are criminals and their own families are better off if they're locked up in prison for a very long time. Have you always noticed, as I did, I don't care how bad the evidence is,

Mommy, the defendant's mommy sits through it like she didn't hear a thing no matter what mom's gonna get up there and testify and we cross-examine moms right and the cross-examination is always the same well you love your son right and you don't want him to go to prison and he'll do anything or say anything to protect him. And that's it. You know, the bond between a mother and her son is, you know, unlike any other. Back off if you're talking about my son, John David Lynch, or my daughter, Lucy, because they can never do anything wrong. OK, you're right. Douglas McGregor joining me, guys. McGregor is what you call a geographic profiler. He specializes in serial and violent crime, missing persons, locating clandestine burial sites.

You can find him at the Geo Profiler. Douglas, did Calvocante do exactly what you thought he was going to do? I think that he did. Nancy, yes, he did. He had a plan. He executed it fairly well. He just got interrupted by law enforcement doing a good job. He traveled north and he went to East Pikeland and Phoenixville looking for accomplices, people that help him out, resources. And then after that, he traveled west.

And the key here is the place that he dumped west and the the key here is the the place that he dumped the vehicle the van it wasn't random it wasn't a mistake and it wasn't just because he ran out of gas like that place was pre-selected um it was actually the property of the the father of Michael Cahill, Michael Scahill, who helped him after he murdered his ex-girlfriend. So he knew where he was going and he knew where he was dumping that van. And that's not to implicate Michael Scahill at all. He may have had no knowledge that Cavalcante was heading to that residence, that property. But Cavalcante might just have been familiar with it. He might have stayed there at one point.

And he may have been heading, continued to head west. I mean, if Scahill was involved in this or was an accomplice in this in any way, then Cavalcante may have been continuing on to Ohio, specifically the Youngstown area. So I can't say that for sure, but he did have a plan and he was trying to follow it through. Youngstown, Ohio, college town. And there would be plenty of single young women alone all over the place in Youngstown. Wow. Now police are trying to figure out did Calvacante have help? Don't feel sorry for this guy. I know he looks bloody and pitiful, but remember he had a sawed-off in his backpack. He's killed before and he would do it again. Irv Brandt, what do you think?

Nancy, you were talking about how people are surprised that he wasn't taken alive, that he was captured. And this was done, I'm sure, he planned it was not to be taken alive, but it was superior tactics by the police. Like the colonel said in his briefing, they surrounded him and he was unaware that he was there. And then if they would have lit him up with floodlights and bullhorns telling him he was surrounded, he would have shot it out with police. He had no intention to going back to jail. But in police work, we have a saying, action is faster than reaction. And there's nothing faster than a canine. They let the dogs loose on him.

And before he could react, he was trying to crawl away. He wasn't giving up. He was trying to crawl, but he couldn't resist the canines. Then they moved in and they captured him. That's the only reason why he was captured a lot. So when you look at that bloody picture of him, well, he's alive. If it would have went any other way, the picture would have been with him with a bullet hole in his head from a sniper. You are hearing the voice of Irv Brandt, senior inspector, U.S. Marshal Service

and author. Eddie Kadem joining us, Fox 29 crack investigative reporter. Where is he now and what happens next? He's heading to Abingdale for processing and then he'll be taken to the state correctional facility where he will serve his life sentence. And important with that, too, the lieutenant saying as long as he's in their custody, he's not getting out again. Something everybody wants to hear, obviously. An amazing effort. And finally, Danilo Cavalcante behind bars where he belongs. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Goodbye, friend.