Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cannibal Killer Joseph Oberhansley jig-saws girlfriend's body open to eat heart, brain and lung. WHY TARGET TAMMY JO BLANTON?

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

Joseph Oberhansley is accused of breaking into the home of his ex-girlfriend, Tammy Jo Blanton, viciously raping her, killing her, before eating part of her organs. With Nancy Grace today to discuss a declared mistrial in the case: Attorney Steven Mulroy: former federal prosecutor from Memphis; John Cardillo, Former NYPD;  Dr Daniel Bober, Psychologist; Joe Scott Morgan, Forensics Expert; and reporter Levi Page. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, what possessed her to post his bond? I don't understand, Tonya. Nancy, I think she really believed in him. At this point, though, we have talked about it. We really think at this point she was afraid not to. Oh, really? Yeah, we think that she did that out of fear of if he did get out, because we really

know her well. And she changed, and she wasn't allowed to, you know, see her friends or talk to her friends. He even forced himself on her Facebook page to monitor that. Well, how did he do that from jail? How did he force himself onto her Facebook page? And how was he controlling her from behind prison walls? No, that was, all that happened, the controlling, before he went to jail.

He already had her, like, in his control. A so-called cannibal killer. Does he stab his ex-girlfriend to death? Wait for it. Then saw her open to eat her brain, heart, and lung. Now, wait for it, wait for it. While on parole for shooting dead a different lover. Why was he on parole? This guy, Joseph Oberhansley, just 38 years old, why is he already out on parole for shooting dead another lover he gets out? Him claiming he's innocent, reportedly eating parts of his girlfriend,

Timmy Jo Blanton's heart and lung, after sawing her open? Oh, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Joining me, professor at the University of Memphis Law School, Stephen Mulroy, former federal prosecutor, former NYroy, former federal prosecutor,

former NYPD, John Cardillo, renowned forensic psychologist, Dr. Daniel Bober, and expert in forensics, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan. But first, to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. You just heard me speaking to one of Tammy J. Blanton's best friends. I don't understand why in the world she would help him get out of jail, but hold it. Take a listen to one of her best friends, Tanya Davalos. She just really thought that he changed.

She really, really believed because he was young. He gave the story that he was on drugs back then and he was a changed man. And at first he appeared that way, even though we were all uncomfortable with it. He really gave that, you know, appearance. But, you know, she, of course, by the time she had billing for him, I think she was seeing the signs, but

she was very afraid. And so we just feel like the system failed her. So many things, I mean, it could have been so different if they hadn't lowered that bond. You know, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now.

Okay, everybody's pointing the finger at everybody else how many times have we heard and i prosecuted for 10 years in inner city atlanta at night i volunteered at the battered women's center how many times have i heard the words he changed i thought he changed he did change he said he changed. He did change. He said he changed. He didn't change. When you shoot dead one lover, don't bond him out. I don't know who I'm even preaching to because Tammy Jo Blanton is dead, right? She had her body sawed open, her brain, heart, and lung were eaten. So I don't know who, I'm screaming in the wind here. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychologist, please help me. Why do people always, women in particular, think the violent male in their life has changed?

Well, they want to believe it, Nancy. You know, it's a reflection of their own lack of self-esteem. And so in some way, there's a phenomenon called trauma bonding, where they actually feel connected to the person and that they cannot function without them. So there's a sick, twisted bond to their abuser, and they feel like they can't live without that person. Okay, that's one thing. But the theory, the thought that they believe the perp has changed. Sue, professor at University of Memphis Law School, former federal prosecutor Stephen Mulroy. Stephen, how many times have you heard that? He changed. He didn't. Yeah, well, you're absolutely right about that. I mean, it's a pattern that you see all the time in abuse cases. You already heard about that trauma bond, and there is this notion that this time is going to be different.

Hope springs eternal. I also thought it was interesting when you did the interview with the friend, her theory that she felt like he had no choice. I think, I'm thinking maybe that she might have thought that he's going to get her anyway, and he would be mad at her if she hadn't bonded her out. And so just yet another form of control that he had over her and victimization. Well put, because you're absolutely right. You know, I've heard that many times, and I'm sure many of you have as well. The woman thinks the perp is gonna get out of jail which guess what she's right because judges let's a revolving door judges let him put up out on own

recognizance ROR released on own recognizance in other words you just walk out low bond no bond in domestic violence cases. So following up on what Stephen said, she thought he was going to get out anyway, and we mad at her if she didn't post bond or help him get out. So she did. Straight out to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. You know what?

Timmy Jo Blanton is dead. And she has been cannibalized. This guy, Joseph Oberhansley, aka also known as the cannibal killer. Let's start not with her case, but the first lover he shot. Tell me about that. That was in 1998, Nancy.

And he shot her when she was a teenager. He was also a teenager. She had given birth to his child. His child was a newborn, and apparently he denied it and said that it was not his child, and he was angry about that. So he shot her and killed her. And not only did he shoot her, Nancy, but he shot his own mother in the back. His motive, he says that he was angry that she gave the child, the baby, his child, more attention than him. He was jealous. So he shot his own mother and his sister grabbed the

newborn when all this was going down and tried to flee, and he shot at them. He missed, fortunately, and this shows you that he was violent when he was a teenager, and he pled guilty to manslaughter, and he was released from prison in 2012, and this was in Utah, and he was released when his mother testified on his behalf at a probation hearing. And she vouched for him, said he had changed. She had forgiven him. And he moved in with her in Indiana. And that's how all of this started. And this guy is not insane. He, Oberhansley, calls these allegations against him, quote, all bull crap lies, insisting he's innocent. And, you know, just looking at him, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor

of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, you can mock me if you wish, but when I look at him, he looks like an animal, a wild animal, a a fierce angry animal that will attack you as soon as you open the cage door yeah and that's that's even more striking when you consider that uh that this young lady posted bond for him uh you know and you sit there and you think you know how in the world uh could she could she be aware of his past and still want to literally release him on the general public? And, of course, releasing him on herself as well in the end. Well, it's just like all these women that are, for instance, married to a Menendez brother or want to sleep with Charles Manson or have his baby. Yeah, Jackie, please quit gagging yourself over there.

I feel the same way, but I'm holding it in. I'm keeping it in a deep, dark knot inside of me, okay? I don't even want to think about it. I'm looking at this guy, Joseph Oberhansley. Now, according to prosecutors, he's got two murderers under his belt. Take a listen to this. You know, Tonya, I'm sick about it because our justice system is set up to protect those that are weaker than we are, less cunning, less powerful than everybody else. And Tammy Jo fits directly into that category, trusting, naive, afraid. And you know what? She should have been afraid because he got a plea on manslaughter to start with when he killed his first victim, had a DUI, led police on a chase,

for Pete's sake, can you even imagine that? And yet prosecutors and judges alike kept letting him off the hook. And she was right. She was right. This guy leads police on a chase, attacks a judge, has already killed one woman, a new mother, tries to kill his own mother. And then he meets Tammy Jo Blanton. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Our justice system is set up to protect those that are weaker than we are, less cunning, less powerful than everybody else. And Tammy Jo fits directly into that category, trusting, naive, afraid. And you know what? She should have been afraid because he got a plea on manslaughter to start with when he killed his first victim,

had a DUI, led police on a chase, for Pete's sake, can you even imagine that? And yet prosecutors and judges alike kept letting him off the hook. And she was right. She was right. This guy leads police on a chase, attacks a judge, has already killed one woman,

a new mother, tries to kill his own mother, and then he meets Tammy Jo Blanton. Now, let me understand something. I'm not sure about what I'm hearing. Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. So he goes on trial for the cannibalism where he reportedly used an electric jigsaw to open Tammy Jo Blanton's skull and scoff off parts of her brain. Okay, he allegedly ate part of her heart and lung.

Wait, excuse me, part of her heart and a whole lung. Tammy Jo had alleged he raped her the weekend before her murder. He again eloquently says those are bullcrap lies. But in a 10-minute rant at a pre-trial hearing, he claimed the ex was getting high and drunk and texting a bunch of bullcrap. He goes to trial where an alleged confession comes in. Levi Page, what happened at trial? So one of Tammy Jo Blanton's friends was testifying for the prosecution and she had mentioned his prior drug use and the judge had said that his prior drug use and bad acts would not be admissible into trial. And she mentioned it anyway when she was testifying. So the judge declared a mistrial. Oh, dear Lord in heaven.

John Cardillo, former NYPD. How does that make a cop feel? When you go to all this effort, you catch a cannibal killer a double killer go i've read everything on this story and it's why cops and prosecutors bang their heads against walls he killed a 17 year old girl shot his mother in the back fired a gun at his own sister, shot himself in the head, is released, gets arrested two times after that. His parole isn't revoked. They let this guy walk around. He lives a life of crime. I don't know who the judge was who thought it was a good idea to give this guy bond. I'd love to know who the parole board was or the judges on the original offenses that didn't put this guy back in jail.

And now we have a mistrial because a witness appropriately pointed out this guy's criminal history. Now, the prosecutor in the current case seems proactive. And he said, look, I'm not going to put the family through another four to five years waiting for justice. If I've got to get on the calendar two weeks late and wait in line, I'm going to do it. He wants resolution by the end of September. I feel his frustration. If I was an investigator on this case, I would be beside myself.

Beside yourself all the hours, all the work, hundreds, thousands of hours of legal research, investigation. I'm speaking from the heart right now because that's what you put in to a case like this to take it to trial. And then because of one witness who has already been instructed, do not bring up his criminal history. Already been instructed, she does it anyway. She does it anyway. And Stephen Mulroy, former federal prosecutor, professor at the University of Memphis Law School,

the judge had to grant a mistrial. No way about it. I'd like to blame the judge, but the judge had to grant the mistrial. I would agree. I don't really think there's any way around it. I mean, I understand the frustration about the prior criminal incidents and that he's, you know, let out on parole so that he can kill again. I mean, obviously, that's concerning to say the least. But this propensity evidence that, you know, he had committed some crime in the past, so therefore he's more likely to get committed again or he had been on drugs.

So we're going to, you know, have all kinds of speculative, negative theories about him. That's not proper evidence. The judge ruled that. The judge specifically instructed the witnesses not to testify to it. And as you pointed out, the witness did it anyway. I don't really see what the judge could have done except to declare a mistrial and try to start over again. Except go back to his chambers or her chambers and kick the trash can. That's all they can do.

But let me ask you this, Stephen Mulroy. What impact will this mistrial, if any, have on the prosecution's case against Oberhansley, the cannibal killer? Well, you know, typically a mistrial can hurt the prosecution a couple of ways. If there's a long delay and, you know, witnesses a mistrial can hurt the prosecution a couple of ways. If there's a long delay, then, you know, witnesses' memories get stale, other evidence might get stale or, you know, be difficult to reproduce. That's not the case here. Wait a minute.

Steve, can I tell you a little story? And I promise it's going to be little. Sure. I'll never forget. Jackie, just turn the other way because you've heard it before. I've just been named a special prosecutor. I've been prosecuted about four years. The elected district attorney called me down, gave me a case to retry.

It happened 14 years before I was even in law school. And it was a murder of an Atlanta police officer's brother. It had a reversible error. There were interlocking confessions or statements, and the guys had been tried together. Okay, that's a no-no. It went all the way up to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, took 14 years to retry it. I had two pieces of evidence in the evidence room left. One, an x-ray of the victim, And two, you want to say it, a cat that said, kiss my bass. Okay?

That was it. That's what happens when 14 years pass. Right. That's a true life story about what happens when time passes. Okay, number one, time can pass. The case gets weak. What else? Well, and then the other would be that the defense would be tipped off as to a certain type of prosecution strategy and therefore be better prepared the next time around.

That hurts me. That hurts me. That hurts me. Because they already have full discovery. They get your whole case file in a case like this except your work product. But once you lay out your plan, your trial, it's like going to war. And they've got your battle plan. You're screwed. Like, who's your first witness? What are you going to ask them?

I mean, they know everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She was a daughter. She was a sister. She was an aunt. She was a friend. She was loved by many. Contagious laughs she had. She was a happy person. She tried to help this fool and this is what happened. It just isn't right that this person, this evil, evil, evil monster did the things that he did to her.

We was just getting close again, and I didn't want to say nothing. She was 47 years old. She'll always be my little girl, but she was grown. You know, what could you say? He doesn't deserve to be breathing air right now. This guy, Joseph Oberhansley, just 38 years old, reportedly eating parts of his girlfriend, Timmy Jo Blanton's heart and lung after sawing her open. Question to you, Levi Page, this guy is not out walking around. I'm not going to see his foot through my kitchen window,

is he? Isn't he behind bars waiting on a new time behind bars so he's behind bars for now but that's what i thought after his first murder question overhands allegedly confessed to killing the victim and eating parts of her body but claims he's not insane i believe that i believe you can be evil and not insane. What about it to Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychologist? Okay, here he comes. I can hear him tuning up right now. How anybody that would eat another human's brains has got to be insane. How about just evil, Dr. Daniel Bober? I bet Satan has brains for dinner every night. I'm sure, and probably goes back for seconds.

But you know what, Nancy? I actually agree with you. I actually don't think that someone who necessarily eats someone's brains, you know, does not know the difference between right and wrong. And I think that that is something that the public gets wrong all the time. They think that how could someone who eats someone's brains not be insane? But that's a legal definition, so it's very different. And this is how I know he knows right from wrong. John Cardillo, former NYPD, you've seen it all, plus some, as have I. Things I wish I hadn't seen.

When you have a defendant that starts saying everything she said was, quote, bull crap lies, and then he recants the confession, says it wasn't true, blah, blah, blah. You can see he's lying. He wants out of jail, and he knows what he did was wrong because now he's fabricating a whole new story that shows he knows what happened was wrong yeah look i mean i agree just because somebody does something that the general public thinks looks quote unquote insane sometimes these suspects are incredibly rational we arrested a guy that

was a hitman for drug gangs and we couldn't prove it, but we knew he had about 26 murders under his belt. It was probably the easiest arrest I ever made. We went to his door with a SWAT team. We didn't need it. He opened the door. He said, I know why you guys are here. Let me just say goodbye to my kids and cuff me around the corner. We did. He didn't resist. He was lucid. He was chatty. He was bragging about his career as a drug hit man in the car. But then when he lawyered up with a very expensive lawyer, he didn't do it. We coerced him. I mean, the guy was a sociopathic serial killer by all means, but charismatic. And if you met him at a bar or a restaurant, would say oh this is a nice engaging guy so these people are oftentimes deceptively normal uh well why stop right there

is this john cardillo speaking the former olympian is that you this is nancy grace here with two 11 year old twins a cat a dog two guinea pigs and and an 87-year-old mother plus a husband, I am not out at a bar or a restaurant. I'm not going to meet him. It's not going to happen. If you met him in the university library, you would find him. If you could see the pile of laundry on my floor outside the washing machine, you know, the only way I'm going to meet him is if he comes over and offers to clean the house. But long story short, for people that are out having a good time, you never know because this and other killers are charismatic.

They're charming. Bottom line, he knows right from wrong. To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, author, blood beneath my feet on Amazon. If it did, how do you believe the system failed Tammy J. Blanton? Well, they failed her simply because this guy's crimes are so egregious. I think that the court did a horrible job making watch care over this person that went in and made this spontaneous statement that created this mistrial. I think that this could have been foreseen in some way. So I think that that's number one. Number two is the fact that he still... Well, yeah, actually, you're right, Joe Scott, because they had already warned the witnesses, don't bring it up. So they had an inkling of what was going to happen.

This guy's a danger. And the fact that he's already killed before is, I don't know, in my mind, at least, it doesn't take a forensic scientist to figure that out. That's a pretty big red flag. And so now, you know, this case is thrown away. Well, let me remind you, Mr. Too Big for His Britches, doesn't take a forensic scientist to figure it out, and you are a forensic scientist, to Stephen Mulroy, it's people just like this guy, Oberhansley, that Joe Scott analyzes and tries to figure out every single day of his life. What I'm saying is, you know where I think the system failed Joe Scott and Stephen? By letting him out to start with at the get-go when he only when he got out on voluntary wasn't

it voluntary manslaughter Levi Page when he killed his 17 year old girlfriend the mother of his child Sabrina Elder shot his mom in the back tried to shoot the baby and his sister did he get voluntary on that yes and then Nancy a year after he was released in 2013, he was arrested for being inside a woman's apartment and fighting with her boyfriend. And he was naked and choking the guy. And he was charged with assault. Wait, wait, wait, Levi, Levi, Levi. Why? I would like to have heard that at the get gogo. Please just say that very slowly because I'm sure Stephen Mulroy wants to write that down for his law school class. So the guy has shot his 17-year-old girlfriend, Sabrina Elder, the mother of his child. He shot his mom in the back because he was jealous the baby was getting his attention. Shot at his sister and the baby. And then did you tell me he gets a

voluntary? Was that a plea or a trial? He pled guilty. Oh, who let him do that? You shoot somebody in the back. That is not voluntary. Okay, that is not voluntary. He got a voluntary plea. That's the first fail. Then he gets out in what? How many years? He gets out in 2012 and moves to Indiana with his mother. And then in 2013, he is at a bar and this woman invites him to her apartment. And he claims that this guy, her boyfriend, tried to steal from him, that it was a concoction to get him up there. And they got into a fight. Police were called, and he's naked in this apartment fighting with this young woman's boyfriend, and he's charged with strangulation.

The charges were dropped because police couldn't figure out who was the aggressor in the situation. I picked the naked man. I mean, that's just, you know, me. But those are a few ways the system fails. I can't believe they dropped those charges. He was always in trouble. Always. Oh, now somebody's trying to clear their reputation. Go ahead, Joe Scott. This guy is particularly dangerous, and this is why, you know, we've kind of skirted around this issue of cannibalism. But I got to tell you, there's three tiers that are going on here.

And kind of let me run them down because your audience is so bright. They're going to get the full depth and breadth of this guy. This guy's already killed before. But when you think about what he did to this woman as far as sexual assault goes, and then it escalated to homicide first. And then he makes a decision that he is going to dismember her or desecrate her remains in some way. And then not only did he do this, Nancy, he didn't just, you know, take a knife and like slice off a part of her body in order to ingest it. He literally took a jigsaw and cut into her skull, which is very difficult to do, and he opened her chest to get access. There's multiple layers to this thing, and that's what's so scary.

And in a lot of cases that we see where cannibalism so-called cannibalism is involved it's not it's not about the nutrition that means that he has taken a body and sexualized it just like albert fish did just like dommer did and there's any number of people out there that have been into the sexualization my question is has he done this this before? Are there other cases that are out there? Because this is a progression toward this horrific end. And I can tell you, when they traipse all of this evidence into that courtroom, they bring that jigsaw out and they bring those images out from the autopsy, they're going to nail this guy to the wall.

I can only pray. Stephen Mulroy, how do you believe the system failed? Tammy Jo Blanton. Well, I mean, I think we've gone over some of it, you know, given his criminal history, the idea that they let him out and that he was able to kill again is obviously something that we need to be concerned about. You know, I'm not, I honestly don't know enough to know what was going on in the judge's mind or the parole board's mind when they made their respective decisions. You know, it's obvious now with the benefit of hindsight that this was a bad call on their part. Well, that is certainly putting perfume on the pig,

Stephen Mulroy. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.