Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CATFISHER COP Murders Family to 'ROMANCE' Teen Girl, Has More Victims

Episode Date: January 14, 2023

Austin Lee Edwards poses as a 17-year-old boy to talk online with a 15-year-old girl. He then drives across the country to her Riverside home when she stops responding. Edwards parks in a neighbor's driveway and goes inside the Winek home. Edwards kills the girl's mother and grandparents, sets the home on fire, and leaves with the girl. Now we learn that Edwards had groomed at least one other victim. He was stalking and pressuring the minor for nude photographs. The Los Angeles Times reports the now 21-year-old woman, who was not identified, was 13 years old when she met Edwards, then 20, on the online messaging platform Omegle. The woman provided the Times with more than 4,000 messages sent in the two-year period after the two began corresponding over Skype, reflecting a sexually and emotionally toxic conversation. “YO WHAT THE F**** I SAID I WANTED TITS WAITING ON ME WHEN I GOT BACK,” Edwards reportedly wrote in one message. The woman, then a tween, replied, “iM SORRY.” In 2016, as she began to pull away from him, Edwards began suggesting in video calls and text messages that he was hurting himself. Over one call, he showed her an injury that matched details of a police report around that time that ended with Edwards’ temporary detention in a psychiatric facility. The woman told the Times she’d only realized she had post-traumatic symptoms years after finally blocking Edwards. “He did a lot of damage to me,” she said. A neighbor calls police after noticing Edwards leading the girl, who "appeared distressed," into his car. Another neighbor also calls 911 after seeing flames coming from the home. When police arrive, Edwards and the girl are gone. Brooke, Sherie, and Mark Winek's bodies are found inside the home; Brooke Winek's other daughter is not home. Police get Edward's license plate from cameras in Winek's neighborhood and track him into the Mojave Desert. A helicopter spots the car and cops pursue Edwards, who fires at the officers. Edwards turns the gun on himself and crashes the car. The girl was unharmed during the kidnapping and is now in protective custody.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC, CCEAlaw.com  Dr. Scott A. Johnson - Forensic Psychologist (Minnesota), 32 years specializing in addressing sexual predators, Author: "When “I Love You” Turns Violent" and "Physical Abusers & Sexual Offenders" Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida; Lecturer: University of Florida Medical School Forensic Medicine; Founder/Host: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference  Detective Rich Wistocki: Child crime expert, president of BeSure Consulting for 30 years, decorated member of Law Enforcement, 23-year SWAT team member; Formed the Will County Illinois States Attorney’s High Technology Crimes Unit that made over 90 sexual predator arrests in its first 3 ½ years.   Titania Jordan  - Chief Parenting/Marketing Officer, Bark Technologies, Author: "Parenting In A Tech World;" Instagram/Twitter: @TitaniaJordan, @BarkTechnologies  Kristen Quon - reporter WCYB, @WCYB_Quon   Dave Mack - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. What is catfishing? It's going online and communicating with someone, someone whom you want to trick into believing you're somebody different than who you really are. I typically see it when men or women try to act younger and more handsome or beautiful or richer than they really are in order to lure someone. But what happens when you finally are going to meet the person, then they find out who you really are. Maybe catfishers don't ever think that far, but I can tell you one thing. I believe I know a catfisher who is also a killer. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Catfisher cop. Yes, he's a cop. Austin Edwards is connected to a mass homicide in efforts to lure a teen girl to go with him and what live happily ever after what happens when she finds out you murdered her whole family

the murderous catfish virginia cop that tricked a teen girl online before kidnapping her and killing her family. Here's the bombshell. As if there could be anything to top that. He had been messaging underage girls for nearly a decade before his murderous rampage. Now uncovered are messages between the murderous catfishing cop, Austin Lee Edwards, and his now 21-year-old victim. They've all been reviewed very carefully, and they show his perversion toward underage girls,

and that it began seven years, at least, let me emphasize at least, seven years before he was caught posing as a 17-year-old boy on the Internet trying to catch a teen girl. Now, this may bring to mind the case of Liberty and Abigail, Abby, the two girls who were murdered in Delphi, taken off a trestle bridge and murdered. Catfishing came to the forefront of the news then because cops were actually looking at a catfisher. A guy who, as I recall, lived at home, I can only say in the basement but he had been posing as a very very buff justin bieber lookalike in order to lure young girls trying to get them to send him naked photos well this is very similar to that by the way in that case so far the catfisher has not been publicly connected to the murders somebody else the local pharmacy tech has been arrested back to to Austin Lee Edwards, the catfishing cop. Now, what I don't get is how he could have been doing this for so long and never, ever was caught.

Now, the victim has not been identified, but I know this. She was just 13 when the catfishing cop began messaging her and trying to get nude photographs. Authorities have now uncovered at least 4,000 messages between the pair. 4,000 messages. He says things like, quote, Did I tell you I went trick-or-treating? I totally did. And I'm 20.

Me too, the girl wrote back. I'm 13. I mean, there's no doubt he knew she was under age. After initially meeting on Omegle, it's a chat app, the two conversed for at least two years, messages now reveal. Then 20-year-old Edwards would also masturbate on Skype calls with this little girl and ask her to undress. She said what she chose not to do. He would refer to the teen as his, quote, girlfriend, send her naked photos of himself, threaten violence if she would not do what he wanted her to do. The little girl says, now that's when I realized he was not mentally stable, according to the New York Post. Now, during several calls, Edward would hold up a hatchet. In fact, a whole collection of hatchets and knives to intimidate her.

Now, as it turns out, he actually used one of these hatchets in a failed suicide attempt. We don't know how serious he was about it, but he did fail. His father actually told authorities his son had been drinking and dealing with, quote, girlfriend problems. You mean underage sex victim problems? That is a problem, but not the one the father seemed to recognize according to the little girl edwards also shared his evil thoughts often telling her she was the only person he had in the whole wide world and that he would kill himself if she wouldn't communicate with him even going to so

far just to say she was his only reason for living. Now that's a real way to get a girl. Threaten to kill yourself. Edwards, now that's a way to get a girl. Tell her she's the only reason you're living. Run for the hills if you hear that, ladies. Edwards even encouraged her to kill her own family. Messages show that at one point he asked her to Skype and

the girl said no she couldn't because her mom was home and he responded kill her and then went on to say I'm gonna give myself a black eye okay. Oh this poor girl. After two years of this and many attempts to break up, the then 15 year old decided to block Edwards. But get this. After she blocked him, he continued to message her on different accounts, even though she had never shared her real name with him. Then Edwards goes on to join the Virginia State Police. Hello? Did anybody give this guy a psychological evaluation? Now, a prior mental health institutionalization should have stopped him from joining the force. A year after graduating, Edwards began working at the Washington County Sheriff's Office. Now, let's get back to the teen girl

he abducted after murdering her family. How'd that whole thing start? The details will make your heart sink. This is the home where it happened. It's still a crime scene. And the lady next door says she was more like family than a next-door neighbor. She had actually just gotten the turkey

out of the refrigerator and walked outside for a second, saw the smoke and the flames coming out of the front of the house, mortified and horrified. She called 911. This son of a bitch that did this, he just has no clue what he took away from this world. For more than 20 years, they were next door neighbors and the best kind every neighborhood needs a winnick family because they just were the all-american loving caring supporting family that you can ever ask for you're hearing our friends at fox 11 and what she just said every lead I've got, every person that's been spoken to agrees. It's the all-American family, the kind on the front of the Hallmark card, scrubbed in sunshine.

So why are they all dead in their homes? And to go another step, the home is set on fire. There's a lot of reasons that a home can be set on fire. To Daryl Cohen joining me, high-profile lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction, former felony prosecutor, and one of the biggest murder capitals in the country, now private lawyer. Daryl Cohen, you and I have dealt with a lot of homicides. Many. I don't know how many homicides I either investigated,

as we would do before we would ever dream of entering a guilty plea, took to trial, much less covered. But when you see a murder and the scene is set on fire, that tells me something that this perp is different from every other killer. When you find out, Daryl Cohen, that the perp has set the home on fire

in a lovely residential area, what does that tell you before you even open the case file? Two words, Nancy. Cover up. Cover it up. Hope that the fire and the ashes take all of the evidence and put it away where it's not going to be seen by law enforcement, by arson investigators. Exactly.

So, you know, immediately when somebody sets the murder scene on fire, they are also staging. Anything a perp does to the scene post-mortem is staging. And it gives us a window into who the perp might be. I mean, think about it. Typically, when you kill somebody,

you want to get out of there. You don't want to be near the dead body. You don't want to be near the scene. You don't want to be seen. You don't want to leave your fingerprints. But some perps stay to stage the scene. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. My whole point is, if he had been handled correctly the first time and imprisoned for sexting a little 13-year-old girl, he was an adult at the time. He would never have had the chance to go on this cross-country rampage. The former little girl says she was not, quote, surprised at all. Edwards had unleashed violence on the girl. She says she knew how scary he really was.

The little girl now, a woman, says it's just crazy he was able to become a cop. And everyone knowing, with me knowing, he had so many mental health issues. I agree with her. How in the hay did he get past all those evaluations?

Back to the teen girl whose family was murdered. If it had not been for an eagle-eyed neighbor spotting a red Kia Soul, that little girl could be dead today. Take a listen to our friends

at NBC4 LA. Nobody could imagine this crime happening to my family, to our family. But the unthinkable did happen to Michelle Blandon's family, her father Mark Winnick, mother Sherry, and younger sister Brooke. The last time she saw them was on Thanksgiving. One day later, Mark, Sherry, and Brooke were found dead

inside the Riverside home on Price Court that Michelle grew up in. She was at a store when a longtime friend and neighbor urgently called her in a panic. She called to tell us that we needed to get there as soon as we could because my parents' house was on fire. Riverside police say inside, her father, mother, and younger sister had been murdered. So this girl gets a call to rush home that the home is on fire. I've spoken to a lot of arson victims, and there's something about the burning of your home. Thank heaven I have not experienced that. I hope I never do. But there's some feeling that goes through the victim's hearts and minds and soul when they see everything they own in the

world and all their memories just going up in flames. Little does this girl know that when she gets back, it's not just the home that she has lost. She has lost her family as well. So why burn the place up to eradicate the evidence? So why is it so important to get rid of the dead bodies? What do we know about the victims? What do we know about this family? Is there something nefarious going on with them? Is there something that neighbors of 20 years somehow missed? Well, take a listen to this. My sister Brooke was a loving single mom who did her best to raise her two teenage daughters in a loving way.

My dad Mark, the silly old man that I referenced him, always referenced him to be, was a soft-spoken and humble man who would go out of his way to help a friend or stranger in need. My mom, Sherry, the matriarch of our family, with the biggest giving heart imaginable, did anything and everything for everyone. So you've got the daughter speaking out about each one of her family members. There's nothing to see. You know, in our line of business, we always think that there's another side to the story. How could the seemingly normal family be the target of a mass killing?

What are we missing? Let me go straight out to special guests joining us Kristen Kwan WCYB joining us from Bristol Kristen question what do we know about the area where the fire occurred and the murders it's my understanding that it's a beautiful residential area yes so it happened in Riverside, Blanfaira South neighborhood just after 11 a.m. And yeah, it's described as a very, very beautiful area

and a nice neighborhood. Kristen Kwan joining me, WCYB Bristol. I heard her say something very interesting to me. Daryl Cohen, you prosecuted a lot of inner city crimes. I learned after my first jury trial to try to find witnesses after 3 p.m. because all the dopers

and all the ne'er-do-wells, all the bad guys typically are up all night and then they sleep. So if I need to find a no good witness, don't even try until after three o'clock. On the other hand, if I want to go find the lady school bus driver or a mom that may have witnessed something in the neighborhood, you can go anytime from 7 a.m. on. But if you want to get a bad guy, they're like vampires. They are up all night and they sleep all day. My point is 11 a.m. triple murder and arson. That is a little out of the stereotypical pattern of crime. Very different, Nancy, than the normal crime. Very unusual during the middle of the

morning or late morning. Too many people can see it. Too many people are driving by haphazardly. It's highly unusual and highly unlikely it would happen. Sadly, it did. And it was heinous. Okay. You did say 11 a.m., right, Kristen Kwan? Yes. Okay, 11 a.m., and you know what? When I would prepare cases, I'd try to find out if there were similar transactions, if this perp had done anything like that in the past, so I could use it to prove scheme, course of conduct, frame of mind of the case in chief. Very often, I would find crimes were committed at about the same time of the day like I was telling you about BTK he would strike while the man of the house wasn't there same thing with the Golden

State Killer remember that Jackie Joseph D'Angelo he would watch a woman's home and wait till the man was gone in fact one of his victims says she had just heard her husband she was in bed with her two or three year old boy and she just heard the husband leave, shut the door, car crank up, leave. And then she thought, oh my goodness, he's coming back in. He must have forgotten something. But it was the Golden State Killer watching the house. All of his crimes, same time of day.

11 a.m. does not fit a triple homicide arson pattern. But as Daryl Cohen said, that's how it happened. But let's just wait a minute. Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Riverside, California has many, many facets to it. What can you tell me about Riverside? Riverside is about an hour and a half southwest of Los Angeles. So it's an area that is very middle class. It's got a lot of neighborhoods, you know, just as we see with this particular one. There's nothing extraordinary about Riverside. I'm

not knocking it. It's just another typical Southern California community. But wait a minute. Three dead bodies in the home. That would be the single mom of two teen girls, the grandparents, her parents. But there's someone missing. Where's the girl? Take a listen to our friends at KCAL 9. He knew what he was doing. He knew what he was doing. Exactly. But thank goodness he made a lot of mistakes. Parking in the driveway, having somebody see him. A neighbor took this photo out of her window of the suspect's red car in her driveway, thinking it might have been stolen and dumped here. It was 10.30 in the morning last Friday, minutes before the Winnick's home started burning. The neighbor, who asked not to be named, told me that she saw dressed in a black trench coat and face mask

walking with the 15 year old who lives in the house they were getting into the red car she was trying to mouth the words to me but nothing came out the neighbor said i looked down and saw she was barefoot she was crying a little bit she didn't try to make a run for it there's a girl the. The 15-year-old teen girl. I will never understand it. How did this guy, now known as the catfish cop, manage to disguise

himself as law enforcement, pass all the tests, and actually make the force only to cross the country to kidnap a little teen girl and murder her family. Austin Edwards had been messaging underage girls for nearly a decade before his murderous rampage. If it had not been for an eagle-eyed neighbor spotting a red Kia Soul, that little girl could be dead today.

Straight out to Kristen Kwan, WCYB Bristol. Kristen, what exactly did the neighbor see? So the neighbor saw him, saw a man with a trench coat on, and he had this girl holding her hand, and he appeared really, really distressed. And that was the reason that she called 911 and she called police. Now, interesting, Dave's Mac, the same woman had noticed a red vehicle and even took a picture of it. What do you know about that?

What happened with that, Dave? Well, that actually is what got her really. Thank God for a neighbor that's paying attention. OK, because without her, Nancy, we don't have the answers to this story. Without her, we don't know who lit the house. We don't know anything, actually, without this neighbor. And not directly next door, a couple houses away, she sees this red car, and she mentions she thought maybe somebody had stole it and they just dumped it right there in that driveway that's why she took the picture that was her thought but she

paid close enough attention so that they could get the picture of the car they had a license plate they had all the information they needed because it didn't belong there when she sees the girl okay the girl was barefoot and she the woman could tell that it looked like she had been crying so while she says that she didn't make a run for it well there was enough other fit you know um the way she was acting that the woman knew this is not right there is something wrong so red card should not be parked in my driveway a girl shouldn't be barefoot walking with another man where she looks like she's frightened you know know what's amazing to me? Joining me is Scott Johnson, forensic psychologist, shorting side of Minnesota, 32 years in the business, author of When I Love You Turns

Violent and Physical Abusers and Sex Offenders. You can find him at forensicconsultation.org. Scott Johnson, isn't the human mind amazing? And that is why I always wanted to question witnesses myself. Of course, before you put them on the stand, but in depth, in a casual setting, like in their home or their comfy or their apartment, and go through the story very slowly. And you ask questions that may really be irrelevant. Like, what exactly did you see? What were they wearing? Did you see their face?

What was their demeanor? Did they have anything in their hands? Did you see a car nearby? Was anybody else around? Just a million questions. And this woman remembers the teen girl was barefoot and it struck her as odd. Isn't that amazing that she sees a man and a girl walking out of the house and that one thing struck her as odd? Absolutely.

And it's the thing that sensory wise her brain picked up on that it just didn't look right. The man's dressed the way he is. The girl's looking scared and she has no shoes on. And so those things kind of get tattooed in the brain. And thank God that they did notice these things. So for right now, all we've got is a red card to go on. That's not helping us a lot. To Dr. Tim Gallagher, joining us, medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed.com, lecturer, University of Florida Medical School, and founder of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. I would be in hog heaven at that conference. Dr. Gallagher, it's a misconception that you can burn bodies to the extent there will be no evidence left. Explain.

All right. That's a common misnomer. Actually, sometimes burning the body, you would actually create more evidence. One of the things that we need to know in cases of victims who are in fires is, were they killed before the fire was set, or did they die as a result of the fire? And by then, we can establish a timeline, you know, for certain acts that the suspect may have committed. You know what you're making me think of, just off the top of my head? The Teresa Halbach case. may have committed you know what you're making me think of just off the top of my head the

theresa halbach case she a 20-something amateur photographer she was taking photos for the penny pincher type oh it was auto auto trader that was you know those free um little newspapers you get when you go into the grocery store they They're right there at the doors, like Penny Pincher, Auto Trader. She went to the home. You're going to remember this, Making a Murderer. One of the streaming was HBO or Netflix, thank you, trying to pretend that Stephen Avery was innocent. Well, let me tell you.

Her teeth and the studs off the back of her Daisy Fuentes blue jeans were found in a fire pit in his backyard. Anyway, by burning her in the fire pit, he thought he got rid

of all the evidence. But the teeth stayed. What's different about the teeth and the bones, Dr. Gallagher? Well, the teeth and bones are created mostly by calcium and calcium is not flammable. So everything around it would be incinerated, leaving the calcium behind. So teeth, bones, and a lot of the, even if the person had a medical device within them, for instance, a pacemaker or a breast implant or some kind of other

medical device, that would stay behind with the serial number on it. And then we can use that serial number to identify whose remains those are. Wow. A question. When you go to a dinner or a party or something like that do people ask you um medical examiner questions about why do the bones burn and the teeth remain or questions like that or can identify the victim by the serial number on her breast implant do they ask you things like that or do you just chat about politics and weather just curious no they do ask me things

like that i have to kind of make myself aware that are they asking me like how to get away with the perfect crime? Or, you know, so I just kind of have to taper my answers a little bit. I don't want to be an encyclopedia for someone trying to get away with something illicit. Well, I assure you that's

not why I'm asking. It also brings to mind Josh Powell. May he rot in hell with Satan forever. Josh Powell first kills his wife, Susan Powell, not prosecuted. Then he gets visitation with his two boys. Imagine that. They go over to his home. He chops them with an axe in the neck and then sets the whole house on fire.

Another instance of trying to burn away the evidence. Well, let me query you with another question. What do three dead bodies and a missing girl have to do with the sale of a home all the way across the country from Riverside, California in Virginia? Take a listen to Ashley Hope, WCYB. According to Smith County Virginia Records, Edwards also recently purchased a home in Saltville from Jacob Gordon. I had the house on the market for just a few hours and you know I got a full price offer and you know I was told it was a Virginia State Trooper and we went from

there. A deed for the property on Allison Gap Road was recorded on November 14th. He was only behind me for about eight days. You know he was actually very November 14th. He was only behind me for about eight days. You know, he was actually very nice accommodating. He offered to help me on my home. After purchasing the home, it appears he blacked out windows and put up dark curtains. I thought it was really weird. And then, of course, the owner told me also that he required that they sent the video of the basement. I mean, he didn't see the property before he purchased it, but he required a video of the basement, which seemed really weird to us. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Catfisher, cop. Yes, he's a cop. Austin Edwards. Here's the bombshell, as if there could be anything to top that, he had been messaging underage girls for nearly a decade before his murderous rampage. CrimeOnline.com's Jackie Howard joining. Jackie, what can you tell us?

Here's another bombshell for you, Nancy. Besides the home that Austin Lee Edwards bought where he blacked out the windows, he also had a Richmond- area apartment. Now we know that apartment was never searched. A judge approved Edwards eviction from that apartment just this week. Now that that eviction is official, any evidence that might exist inside that apartment could be removed if it's not been already and destroyed. That means any other evidence related to more victims harassed online by Edwards will be lost. The Riverside Police

Department, which led the investigation into the murders, did not see a need to search the apartment. According to a spokesman, it was not needed in relation to their investigations. Also, the Chesterfield County Police Department and Sheriff's Office did not search Edwards' Richmond area apartment either. According to the Los Angeles Times, there may still be some of Edwards' belongings in the apartment. The reason for the eviction was that Edwards had fallen behind on his rent and his landlord moved to evict him. Court records show, according to the Los Angeles Times, that he owed $804 for his November rent, $80.40 in late fees, $61 for court costs, $150 attorney fee, and $90 in damages for utilities and trash. There's no word on whether investigators will seek a search warrant for what remains. The entire family wiped out. A teen girl left

without a home or a family now orphaned because of a catfishing cop with a perversion for young girls online. Joining me right now, special guest, Titania Jordan, Chief Parenting and Marketing Officer at Bark Technology. I've got Bark. I'm not a paid spokesperson. Not getting a dime out of it. But I've got it on my phone, and so does my husband. She's the author of Parenting in a Tech World.

Titania, what is catfishing? It's a colorful term for an activity that's been around as long as there's been an internet, namely pretending to be somebody else online. And it's gut-wrenching to hear this story and even more gut-wrenching to know that at Bark, we're sending alerts daily around predatory behavior, risky contact, sextortion. In many cases, we have to notify major entities like NCMEC, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. What exactly is it?

What exactly is catfishing? Yes. It's the act of creating a false identity and then interacting with somebody for a specific purpose, usually to lure them into some sort of relationship. It can include mild flirting all the way to years-long partnerships. And the catch is that these people have never and will never meet them in real life except for in rare unfortunate circumstances like the one we're talking about today. It happens so often. I've got 20 pages of similar transactions right in front of me. And we saw it most recently in the Delphi double murder of Libby and Abby, where a catfisher,

a pudgy guy that lived in his mom's basement, was using a Justin Bieber lookalike photo to lure young girls, including Libby and Abby, meet up with them, get naked photos of them. Turns out his catfishing seemingly has nothing to do with their murders, but it was a monkey wrench thrown in the entire double homicide investigation. Catfishing is happening all the time. And Titania Jordan just told you what it is. But what does it have to do with this chase? Virginia State Police tell us the suspected shooter served as a trooper right here in Metro Richmond for about 10 months before he resigned in October. And then he got a job in the Washington County Sheriff's Office. They tell me they hired him on November 16th, just 10 days before this triple murder.

Austin Lee Edwards, Division 1, Henrico. CBS 6 covered Edwards' graduation from the Virginia State Police Academy back in January. A spokesperson says he was hired and entered into the academy in July 2021 and was assigned to cover Henrico County when he graduated. Guys, you were just hearing our friends at WTVR. Now, take a listen to Tony Shin. Investigators say this is the man who took their lives. 28 year old Austin Lee Edwards, a law enforcement officer from Virginia, who police say used a fake Internet profile to appear to be a 17 year old boy.

So he could have an online relationship with Brooks, 15 year old daughter. It's a method of internet deception called catfishing. He took an oath to protect and yet he failed to do so. Instead, he preyed on the most vulnerable. Investigators say after killing the Winnick family, Edwards set the home on fire and took the teenage girl with him. To Tanya Jordan joining us, Chief Parenting Officer at Bark Technology, once the catfisher starts talking to the girl, the young girl thinks she's 16, 17 years old, he then befriends her enough online

to get valuable information like phone number and home address. Of course, sometimes people post photos that have their home address in the background, like they're in their front yard and you can see maybe their car or their home. Why is it important to never give out your home address or where you work or any personal information like that to somebody you don't know? I mean, you outlined it clearly, but for everybody that has only been half listening and you are listening right now, pay attention. Pay attention to this.

Your children need to know that the people they're talking to online aren't necessarily who they say they are. They can be tricky people. These are adults who are highly skilled in one thing, and that is tricking them. And they can be the smartest, most loved, brilliant children on the planet, and they can still get tricked. Your children need to feel comfortable telling you about who they talk to online without ramification of doing so. You need to stay calm, and they need to know that this is out there

and that you are the safe place. To Detective Rich Ristocki, this is your belly wick. How do you tell your children without scaring them? What is catfishing? I mean, I just say to my son, who are you playing with? And he says, so-and-so. I'm like, who else? He goes, some other kid.

I'm like, how do you know it's not like a 65-year-old guy in his underwear in New Jersey? And you're playing with him online. Don't give him your location or your real name. How do you tell them without scaring them, Detective? So I teach about 100,000 kids a year, and we talk about this in depth. I give them a sure way how you can never be catfished. So we talk about five factors of authentication. If you can't tell me their first name, their last name, their phone number, where they go to school, and where they live,

based on what you know to be true physically, everyone else online is a liar. So then I asked the kids, how many webcams do you have at your disposal? They'll have a webcam on their Chromebook, their iPad, their desktop, their tablet, and their phone. So if you are talking to someone that you really have not verified who they are and they're asking for personal information, with parent or guardian permission, tell them, hey, let's go to webcam.

I just want to make sure you're not catfishing me and I want to make sure you are who you say you are. Well, I tell, Detective, I tell the children, it's usually my son, he can't play with anybody online that he doesn't know in real life. He's never met. And I think it's working. So that leads me to, Detective, where's

the girl? The last we heard of her, she's being taken out of the house by the guy wearing a trench coat. And she's barefoot. The search is on for a red car. Take a listen to Rick Chambers, KTLA. He murdered the girl's mother, Brooke, and the girl's grandparents, Mark and Sherry Winnick,

and then set the fire. As he dragged the struggling teen to his car, neighbors noticed that commotion and called police. But by the time they arrived, the home was burning and Edwards was already driving back east. But about two hours after the murders, police spotted Edwards' red car on Highway 247. SWAT units were called in and a pursuit began. Along Route 62 in Kelso, though, Edwards began shooting at the SWAT vehicle. Okay, so this guy not only has taken the girl, murdered her entire family, but now he's shooting at cops. Take a listen to Fox 11.

Parked in another neighbor's driveway, they left. That woman, who described the girl as in distress, gave police his license plate. Officers tracked them down halfway to Vegas and say during the pursuit, Edwards lost control while shooting at police and their chopper. The girl managed to escape to safety and police returned fire. Edwards had worked for two law enforcement departments in Virginia with no priors or marks against his name.

The teenage girl is in the color guard at Arlington High School. She's currently in protective custody. So this guy has a gun and is brazen enough to shoot at cops. To Scott Johnson, that tells me he's willing to kill again, even shooting at cops. He's already killed three people in order to get this girl back to his lair in Virginia with the blacked out windows and the heavy curtains. He's willing to kill to have sex with a 15 year old girl. Right. And, you know, this psychopathic traits, you know, the minimal, if any, anxiety or fear, you know, they really just don't care about tomorrow.

They care about today. And so, you know, to take the risk of being shot and killed, it just, it didn't matter to him. And he just didn't care. It was about the power, the control, the fantasy of having this victim back in isolation in Virginia. And the rest just didn't matter to him. Detective Rich Ristocki joining us. And this is a guy that's in law enforcement. He's been in a jail before. You know, the first time I ever went in Fulton County Jail, when I walked out into the parking lot, and it was a very bleak asphalt parking lot, it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. Just to get out of that jail. This guy knows the consequences. Wistocki? Absolutely. So I've arrested over 300 of these internet predators,

and it's Butcher, Baker, Candlestick, Maker. It can be firefighters, police, attorneys, doctors. It is always a secret life that nobody knows about. And until we hit that door with a search warrant, then the cat's out of the bag. Or in this case, when he goes so far and does these unbelievable, horrible acts, now he knows he's found out. I mean, Titania Jordan joining us from Bark. You can find her at Bark.us. Titania, children, and I think their parents, have no idea what the children are up against. The level of deceit, the level of cunning,

the brazen character of these online predators. This guy has already killed three that we know of and willing to kill cops to get this girl alone in that blacked out basement. It's disgusting. It's angering. You know, the catfish knowingly uses flattery and emotional manipulation as an adult against children to kickstart a connection and then nurtures it steadily. It can happen to any one of us. You know, Detective Rich Wistocki says so many times, not my kid, not my kid. It absolutely can be your kid. It could be my kid.

Daryl Cohen is joining me, former felony prosecutor, now civil attorney. Daryl, you and I spent way too much time in the Fulton County Jail. Once you've been in that place, you never, you never want to go to jail ever. But this guy is so driven by his demons, he'll do anything to get this girl. Nancy, once you've spent one minute in the fulton county jail that's one minute too long it's horrible and it is indicative of so many jails this guy yes he is crazed yes he is evil yes he is wrong and it's hard to look into his mind. Kristen Kwan, WCYB, joining us from Bristol. Kristen, where is the girl now? The girl now is in protective services. She was able to get away. I pray that she doesn't go to a foster home, that she goes to live with family. And now she

is dealing with not only being in the car with a guy trying to rape her, but the murder of her mother and her grandparents and her home up in flames because of this guy, this catfisher. Well, you may be happy to know that when he opened fire on the cops, they shot him dead. But this girl has a lifetime sentence of pain. Nancy Grace Crum Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.