Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Caught on Video: Did Evil Auntie Push Tot, 3, Into Lake Michigan to Die?

Episode Date: September 23, 2022

A 3-year-old Illinois boy is not expected to survive after being thrown off a Chicago pier into Lake Michigan. Police say the boy's aunt “stole the keys” to the family’s truck before sneaking ��out of the residence without anyone knowing that she had left.”  Security footage captured the incident as Victoria Moreno, 34, pushed the child into the water and made no attempts to rescue him. Fire officials said the child was taken to Lurie Children’s Hospital, in cardiac arrest. He’s been placed on a ventilator.  Police added that the child had lung bleeding, a swollen brain, and had to have a heart infusion. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Ashton King - Witness, Mother of Three, Called 911 & Threw in Life Preserver, Spoke to Victim's Aunt, Small Business Owner/Entrepreneur Irv Miller - Criminal Defense Attorney, The Miller Firm, Legal Analyst: CBS2 Chicago WBBM-TV  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA), DrBethanyMarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills)  Dr. Free N. Hess - Pediatrician/Pediatric Emergency Medicine, Child Safety Expert & Consultant, Founder of PediMom.com Robert Farley - Former Detective, Cook County Sheriff's Police Department (Chicago, IL), Deputy United States Marshal, Commanding Officer, Child Exploitation Unit, Consultant in Crimes Against Children, Farley International, RFarley.com Tia Ewing - Reporter, FOX 32 Chicago, Facebook.com/TVNewsStar, Twitter: @TIA_EWING, Instagram: @TiaOnTV, tiaewing.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It started out as a beautiful day, but it ended in tragedy for a three-year-old little boy. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to our friends at Fox 32. A beautiful day on the lake took a terrifying turn around one this afternoon when a young boy ended up in the water, unable to stay afloat. And we ask that you keep the family in your thoughts. Chicago fire and police officials responded to the north side of Navy Pier

with divers jumping in to rescue the three-year-old. According to the fire department, the child had gone into cardiac arrest. The child was rushed to Lurie Children's Hospital and is currently undergoing treatment. And more from our friends at WGN. The distress call first came shortly after one that afternoon, but it was Ashton King who dialed 911. Her friend Allie was in Chicago from out of town they'd just been on a boat and were on the north side of the pier. As we were walking my girlfriend said did you hear that splash and I was like no. Then they spotted a woman looking into the water. Obviously we were curious what are you looking at um we did not expect to look down and see a little boy can you imagine that moment you see people

looking down in the water and you look down and see what you certainly did not expect a little boy in the water it goes on take a listen to bernard tumulti and panic set in i turned to her and i said do you know him how did he fall in were you here when he fell in were you are you with him like um and she never gave me a clear or concise answer i called 9-1-1 and on 9-1-1 i'm you know frantic i'm like there's there's a child in the water as king was on the phone she remembered seeing something further back i remember seeing a big red case that holds the life donut preserver and I remember thinking oh my gosh go run go get that go get that. As Ali ran to get that the little boy went under. And more from our friends at Fox 32. Ashton King a mother of three still can't shake what she saw

here at Navy Pier Monday afternoon. My friend said, oh, I just heard a splash. That splash turned out to be a three-year-old boy police say was pushed into Lake Michigan by his own aunt, 34-year-old Victoria Moreno. King was visiting the area from the suburbs. Her best friend, a trained diver, was in town. You again, we're hearing our friend Tia Ewing from Fox 32, who is joining us right now. But before I go to Fox 32 superstar Tia Ewing, I want to go to another special and threw it in to try and save three-year-old Josiah Brown. Ashton, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. Ashton, what happened that day? Where did it all start? Well, as you heard in the story, my best friend was in from out of town. She had been in the weekend and it was

her last day here and i thought we should do something a little touristy in chicago so we decided let's go down to navy pier we're gonna do a boat tour down the chicago river it takes off from navy pier so at 11 45 that's when our tour took off we got off the boat about 1 p.m. a little after 1 and decided that we wanted to go to the north end of the pier. Hey, Ashton, hold on one second. For those of you that didn't hear it from our friend Tia Ewing at Fox 32 Chicago, it's not just a child falling in the water. Right there at the end, you hear pushed into the water. And with me right now, Ashton King, the witness that called 911 and ran to a life preserver to throw to little three-year-old Josiah. So you're out on this tour, a boat tour.

Right. And then what happened so then we get off the tour um and we decided there is an actually there's a rooftop restaurant and bar on the north side of the pier i had gone before for previously years ago for a friend's birthday and i thought it would be very nice um scenery to overlook the water i said let's go have you know we'll have a cocktail we'll have some lunch um and then we'll end the day you know um so as we were walking to the location um my friend and I were just casually talking and she said she heard a splash and I said I didn't hear the splash um we kept walking oh gosh Ashton when you say I heard the

splash your friend heard the splash and you did not hear the splash. No, I did not. And then you kept walking. Yeah. I'm just thinking the splash and then one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi. As you're walking, we all on the panel right now know what that splash was. It was three-year-old Josiah. And I'm thinking of you and your friend, you know, just walking toward the rooftop lunch. And, you know, however many feet away, Josiah has just gone into that cold water.

And nobody realizes yet what had happened. Go ahead. Yeah, nobody. water and nobody realizes yet what had happened go ahead yeah nobody uh i would like to just mention that it was a monday uh in the middle of september so you don't really have many tourists in the area i mean it was very very quiet especially on that side of the pier um there weren't many people around so as we walk ahead i see a a woman kind of bent over looking into the water. I mean, staring into the water, which seems peculiar to us. I guess I thought maybe she was looking at, I don't know, some wildlife.

I didn't know at that point. But she was the only one around. So we stopped where she stopped. And like I tell you, when I looked in that water, I did not expect to see a little boy floating on his back. I immediately went into panic mode and just berated the lady, not that we know is the aunt, with questions. What happened? How did this happen? And she did not give me any answer. Guys, you're hearing the voice of Ashton King that jumped into action when she sees a little boy. Now, you heard Ashton King, the Good Samaritan,

state that the boy was on his back, like floating. But remember, this is rough water. It's hard to keep floating or treading water in that kind of body of water. He was floating then but it didn't last long. Take a listen to our friends at WBBM and again Fox 32. The three-year-old is on a ventilator here at Lurie Children's Hospital. He has swelling in his brain, his lungs have been bleeding and he's gone into cardiac arrest a number of times. His injuries are severely life-threatening. He just was looking straight up at the sky, just terrified. The three-year-old boy was found at the bottom of the lake and isn't likely to survive his injuries. Ashton King with me, mother of three, who called 911 and tries to throw, does throw a life preserver out to the boy. He was looking up at the sky. That's what you remember,

Ashton? Yes, floating on his back. And I just remember thinking thinking my first thought was oh my gosh I'm so proud of him because I'm a mother so I was like I'm so proud that he's doing such a good job floating I'm soon we're trying to talk calmly to him my girlfriend was I was back and forth on the phone with 911 but we're trying to you know talk to him but um anything that we were trying to do to provide or render aid to him kind of to help him self-preserve it just wasn't he just wasn't responding to us to robert farley uh former detective cook county sheriff's police department Detective Cook County Sheriff's Police Department and Deputy U.S. Marshal, Commanding Officer of the Child Exploitation Unit and Consultant in Crimes Against Children. It's Farley International, rffarley.com.

Familiar with the doc. Robert, thank you for being with us. How far is it down into the water? Good morning. It's approximately six feet from the actual pier down into the water. For your listeners to, I guess, give you a perspective that Navy Pier is on Lake Michigan, one of the five Great Lakes. It's just east of what's called the Streeterville neighborhood, which is where the high-end residences, stores, and things like that It goes out into the lake about, I don't know, maybe 3,500 feet It's been around since the 20s

Part of the reason it's called Navy Pier is during World War II, the naval aviators used to practice flat-top aircraft carrier landings at Navy Pier. In fact, former President George Bush, the father, actually trained there how to land his plane on an aircraft carrier. So I guess that would be where the scene of this crime would be. Now, Ashton did a pretty good job of describing the north end of the pier. But for your listeners, the pier goes directly east from the Streeterville neighborhood. And then you have water on the north side of the pier and you have water on the south side of the pier. The north side of the pier, what's kind of interesting, and Ashton briefly described it, is kind of secluded. You have a rooftop restaurant, but mostly you have the entrances for the parking lots, the entrances for the mini restaurants. The boats that she talked about are pretty much more on the south side of the pier. In fact, as I had

told your producer, I said, strangely enough, I had been on a dinner cruise of a Navy pier a week ago. So a week ago Thursday, I had been on a dinner cruise there. So that kind of gives you an idea at least what the pier looks like, the water. It's cold. I mean, it's really cold. People, I mean, in many cases, if you're out there, you're going out there in a wetsuit. Yeah, I was just thinking that because I know out at the Santa Cruz Pier, we take the children there a lot to see the sea lions. People, even though it's sunny California, people are in full wetsuits out there to surf because the water is so cold. The low that day, September 19, was estimated at 55, which makes me wonder how cold that water was. crime stories with nancy grace straight out to tia ewan joining us from fox 32 chicago you can find her on facebook tv news star Star and TiaEwing.com.

Tia, thanks for being with us. So the water on Lake Michigan is very choppy, right? It can be very choppy. That is true. And for a three-year-old boy to even be able to float in it is astounding because we've covered stories over the years and even this year, even this summer, where people end up in the water and they don't make it.

Yeah, it's a lot because if it's 55 degrees in the air, the water is going to be much colder. Much colder. And then the shock of being pushed off an at least six foot pier and going under and then trying to stay afloat. And I'm just thinking about what Ashton King said to you and about she looked out and not expecting to see what she saw. And then sees a little boy's face staring up at the sky. Shocking. It's very shocking. You know, and to learn more about the details of how this even happened is even more shocking. So their surveillance video that has not been released to the public because this is still

an active investigation, but police did put out information about what they saw when they looked at that surveillance video. And when they looked at that surveillance video, they say that they saw Victoria Moreno, you know, basically allowing this child to go underneath what they have there, which is it's a very thin like chain. It's nothing that will really keep you back from the water. And when people were looking, she would, according to police, at least keep him back from the water. But when people were not looking, that is when they say, yeah,

she straddled him and pushed him into the water. Okay, Irv Miller, I know you're hearing TAU and you know, you got your work cut out for you. Irv Miller, I know you're hearing Tia Ewan. You know, you got your work cut out for you. Irv Miller, high-profile criminal defense attorney with the Miller Firm and legal analyst in Chicago, WBBM-TV. Tia, Irv, I want you to take a listen to our friend Casey Cronus, Fox 32. Still, exactly how this happened is unclear. Police tell us the boy was not on a boat. Instead, he was walking with a guardian when he fell into the water. Detectives stayed on scene for hours investigating. It's very early in this investigation and the area three detectives are reviewing everything and exploring all the circumstances. And we're told that adult who was with the little boy at the time was being interviewed

by police earlier this afternoon. That's right. Being interviewed to find out exactly what happened. Witness number one, Good Samaritan Ashton King, was there. He immediately jumped into action, directing that 911 be called, trying to throw a life preserver out to the little boy. Listen to Tara Molina. Moreno grabbed his foot and pulled him from the edge while looking around, waiting for people to leave. And when no one was around, she allowed him to crawl back under the barrier, eventually going over it herself, looking around again, crouching down, straddling the three-year-old.

She pushed him into Lake Michigan. They say she sat down and stared into the water where the little boy was struggling, saying and doing nothing. All of this caught on surveillance cameras. You know, Ashton King joining me, the witness we're all talking about, the Good Samaritan. Ashton, I was just thinking about that impulse that, you know, when you see other people looking up, we all look up, go, what is it? People will look down and you look down after you earlier heard the splash and see the little boy, what kind of shock went through your mind as a mother of three? Um, you know, at first, for a split second, I couldn't believe

that this was real. I couldn't believe that I was seeing what I was seeing. That was my first instinct. Um, and you know, in that moment, you, you don't, there's nothing in this world that can prepare you for being put in a situation like that. But I knew I had to do something. I had to be calculated in my thinking and in that moment. So I knew 9-1-1 was my first line of action. Um, and while I'm on the phone with 911, it was very important to have Allie stay. Um, Allie was my friend who was there with me stay, um, with the child. So she tried to direct him to float towards the boat that was parked. Maybe he could get up. She, she ran. I directed her to go run and get the light preserver. I made sure that I stay as calm as I could on the phone with 911 to make sure that I could give them the most precise location of where we were and where the child was in the water.

From landmark to parking garages to anything I could possibly give them to pinpoint them to the exact location where he was. Ashton, do you remember, did you teach your children how to swim? So that was a big thing for me. We did start swimming lessons, actually. They've been in for about a year now. And my first thought was, oh, this sweet baby, maybe he learned like that, that, that like preserving kind of float floating on their back. I mean, I was, I was, I was so, um, impressed that he was doing that, um, at the moment. And I thought maybe, you know, he had kind of been taught the same things that my kids have been taught.

When did you realize that something was very, very wrong, Ashton? The first thing I realized was that he had vomited once in the water. And so I, as an on-phone with 911, I said, please, please, he just vomited in the water. You know, I'm going back and forth with them. And that was the moment that I knew that this is this is not going well. Not that it would go well. Right. But this is just, this is just not this is it It was progressing so fastly. And I want it to be known that obviously any mother's first instinct is to jump in and save a child. But I was very fortunate to have a friend who is training to be a dive master and who had just taken a dive safety class. And there are a lot of factors that went into our decision to not immediately jump in after the boy.

I want to talk about the little boy vomiting, Josiah. Joining me is Dr. Free Ann Hess, a pediatrician. Of course, the specialty is pediatric emergency medicine. She is the founder of pedimom.com, P-E-D-I-M-O-M.com. Dr. Hess, thank you for being with us. Why was the boy vomiting? So there are very distinct stages to drowning that we know quite well, six stages of drowning. And once they reach the stage where they're sort of ending their struggle, they're not really able to keep themselves afloat very much, they start to actually swallow water.

So part of that they will swallow, part of that they will start to aspirate. And oftentimes the water that they're swallowing causes them to vomit. So that means that they've already entered the stage where they're aspirating water and they are past the point of being able to struggle much longer. Dr. Hess, it's a horrible, horrible feeling. I remember before the twins were born, John, David, and Lucy, when I still dived a lot, I was on the other side of the world diving and I had gone way down further than I really should have gone at that time and breathed into my spider. It didn't work. And I sucked in water and immediately very far down under the surface started vomiting up water. And when you're doing that and you're underwater, you can't then catch your breath.

You can't breathe back in. It's a horrible, almost claustrophobic feeling. Yeah, it's a very, I mean, the whole entire situation is terrible. I do want to just say for those listening to that, unfortunately, drowning is the number one cause of accidental death in children from ages one to four. We see massive, massive numbers of this. Obviously, this is a little bit of a different situation because it wasn't just an accidental drowning. But that's unfortunately why we know so much about drowning and how it occurs in the stages of drowning is because it's so common. But of course, as Dr. Hess is pointing out, this was no accident.

Take a listen. See this photo from Ashton King. She was on the pier and saw the three-year-old in the water immediately jumping into action while she said she watched Moreno do the exact opposite. This is her standing by police and the dive team who rescued the little boy. The red flags were there. She was acting very weird. I did end up telling the officer, I said, listen, I said, she was the only one here when we got here. She's just been acting off, weird.

Like, I don't know if she, I just don't know if she's all, something is not right. Acting odd, acting weird. You're hearing our friends at WBBM, but there's more. Take a listen to our friend Tia at Fox 32. Moreno stole the family car and drove into the city and Navy Pier surveillance video shows she waited for people to leave the area, then allow the three-year-old to crawl underneath the chain barrier, separating the walkway and the water. When no one was looking, they claim Moreno straddled the boy and pushed him over into Lake Michigan, which is a six and a half foot drop.

I said, please, can you question her again? I'm just letting you know, like, this is not sitting right with me. She was the only one here. She's not acting right. OK, back to you, Tia Ewing. Ewing joining us, Fox 32. Tia, I know it's a six and a half foot drop, but how deep is Lake Michigan? It's very, very deep. It depends on it on different parts of the lake of how deep it can be. But I mean, it's a

clear indication of how deep it is that the actual dive crews found this little boy at the bottom of the water unconscious. I mean, that tells you everything you need to know. Had to bring in a dive crew to find the boy unconscious at the bottom of the water. Robert Farley joining us, former detective, County Sheriff's Police Department and so much more. How deep would you say that is? Probably right there. It's around 25 feet deep. I mean, it gets, as you go farther out, it's about 800 feet deep, but right there, just to the north, this is basically a little inlet on the north side of Navy Pier. Just to the north is the water filtration plant for the city of Chicago, where they suck in water from lakes to distribute it. So the pipes go out to what are called cribs out in the lake

where they suck in the water. So probably there at 25, 30 feet. I mean, I've been in boats out there and looking at the depth meters. Just there, maybe 30 feet. But as was said by Tia, I mean, it gets significantly deeper as you go further out. Tia, you and joining us, Fox 32, what was going on up above ground? Is it like a pier where there are rides and restaurants and photo booths and all that?

It is. But on a Monday, that is not the case. On a Monday, it is the equivalent to probably like a park. You have a few stragglers that are strolling through, observing the lake, taking pictures. It's not, you know, this huge tourist attraction during the week, especially not that early on in the week. So I would imagine not very many people are out there. And, you know, that is why when you heard from Ashton, she said that, you know, there weren't a lot of people out there. She did tell me when I interviewed her that some people stopped.

They asked what was going on and they kept going. Oh, my stars. Yes. Nobody stayed out there. They kept going with a three-year-old boy out in 25 deep water. Ashton, is that true? Yes, that is completely true. There were two people that helped and that was my friend and I. Anybody else that

stopped only stopped because they were curious why we were staring at the water and, you know, trying to move this life preserver around the water. What happened? I said, you know, frantically, there's a little boy in the water. There's a little boy in the water. Oh, okay. Okay. How did that happen? I don't know. I don't know. I don the water. Oh, oh, okay, okay, how did that happen? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Oh, okay, okay, and then walked on by. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, and and boy do I need to shrink right now.

Psychoanalyst to the stars joining us from Beverly Hills. She's at drbethanymarshall.com and star of a new Netflix series Bling Empire. Dr. Bethany, what is wrong with people? I mean, even if you're not a great swimmer, you want to still stand by and see if there's anything you can do rather than jump in and you both go to the bottom. But can you throw him a rope? Can you, like Ashton King, try to throw him the life preserver? Call 911, do something.

Don't just keep on walking by. Nancy, the human condition is so complex. Why did these people walk by? You know, for some of them, it may not have seemed real. They may have made it unreal in their minds. Dr. Bethany, weren't your parents missionaries? Yes, they were. Okay. I don't know if you've ever heard the phrase or the story. It's not a phrase. It's a story. It's a parable. The Good Samaritan. Is that ringing a bell somewhere?

I mean, I know you've been in Beverly Hills a long time, but can you reach way back and remember to just keep walking? Nancy, it's so inexplicable. There's a three-year-old in the water. Said they thought it wasn't real. What are you saying they thought it wasn't real? I think people can make things unreal in their minds. That's not real. That's just a little boy. He'll swim. He'll come back to the pier. People have all kinds of narratives in their mind to explain the world around them. And sometimes the narratives are inaccurate. Sometimes they're simply callous. Some people feel they're getting

drawn to a hoax and that there's drama around them. They don't want to get involved. Hold on, Dr. Bethany. Hold on. Hold on. I don't like anything you're saying. And I'm going to tell you what I think about this alternate universe you're creating for these people that you say don't think it's real. They see it. They hear it. They feel the cold air. They see Ashton King. They're screaming, trying to call 911, trying to help. I think that if they don't think it's real, I think that equals they're doing what's comfortable for them. They're doing the easy

thing, not the right thing. Well, Nancy, I'm going to contrast this with something. In Yosemite Park here in California, hundreds of people die each year trying to rescue other people. You know, maybe somebody who's taking a picture on a ledge and that person falls over, so somebody else grabs them and then a person grabs the rescuer and a whole chain of people go over.

So I've witnessed the opposite in our national parks, which I think is so interesting. Out in nature, people are more likely to rescue others, even in very dangerous situations. And then you have this pier where they're quite callous and they walk the other way. I'm not saying for them to all jump in and drown themselves. I mean, you see Ashton King, she called 911. She tried to get the life preserver to the little boy.

She was trying to give directions. Hurry, hurry, hurry. This is where we are. They did not want to get involved. They didn't even stand there. They did nothing. They just kept going. I mean, you're really, really airbrushing a bad situation. I mean, Ashton King, let me go back to the woman standing there. You said something was off. What happened? Well, at first, I got to tell you, the entire time she just stood. She stood behind, like Tia was mentioning, chain that was that kind of separated um the water or you know your little barrier um she stood she backed away as soon as we got there and we were

starting to question her and hound her and soon as we started to frantically call 911 and running around the pier she backed away she stayed exactly where she was the entire time did not answer anything clear or concise for me kept kind of mumbly and saying, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And so, of course, when police are on the scene, they're going to go ahead and they're going to take down our information because they, you know, in case they need to contact us later. The entire time, even when she was talking to the police she just something was off something was not right what did she look like she kind of just looked stoic emotionless emotionless stoic but not emotion not a hundred percent emotionless but not as to have been expected now for example

this little boy i had no relation to this little boy. And I'm going to tell you, I was panicked. I was sobbing. I was running around like a crazy person on this pier trying to make sure that first responders got to where we needed to be. And I, that was just a normal reaction that I had right away as soon as I seen him in the water. Now, to see how she was reacted while she was just staring at him struggling in the water was red flag number one. But then to have eventually learned that that was her nephew, that was red flag number two. And I told police, as they were questioning her, I thought to myself, does anybody else not see what I am seeing here? Does anybody not see that this is something is not right?

And I told the officer i said please please question her please something is not right here she was the only one here when he was in or at least when he was struggling in the water and speaking of being the only one there tia ewan joining us fox 32 as a matter of fact the surveillance video from there on the pier shows her pushing the boy in pushing the boy in absolutely but the surveillance video also shows some other things that i think are important as well um which i think kind of relates to the entire situation the surveillance video also shows that the little boy was walking at one point in the roadway and was nearly struck by a car right before this happened. So the same place where they were, there is a little stretch of that pier where cars can drive through and park in the parking garage.

According to police on the surveillance video, you do see her allow the little boy to walk right in the middle of the walk of the roadway. And it's nearly hit by a car before we even got to this point of him being pushed into the water. So it kind of gives you a glimpse of, you know, the care how he was being looked after during the time that he was with with his own family member. Irv Miller joining me, high-profile criminal defense attorney with The Miller Firm, also a legal analyst, CBS2 Chicago, WBB MTV. Irv, thank you for being with us. You know what? I know where you're going to go.

If this hadn't been caught on video, you would say, she didn't push him. He fell. He tripped over that chain, plastic chain barrier. That's what happened. He was playing on the edge and he fell. Okay. But since there is video, rut row, of her pushing him. I've had it happen in rape cases and every other case there

is. Goes something like this. He's never seen her in his life. Oh, okay. So they were supposed to meet at the bar. Yes, that was casual. They didn't know each other. Then the bar surveillance video shows up and it's them sitting there having dinner. Oh, her. Oh, yeah, I know her. We had dinner one night. That's it. Then it shows them walking down the alleyway, leaving the restaurant.

Oh, yeah, well, he's such a gentleman. He walked her to her car. And oh, wait, he got in the car. Yeah, he got in the car, but she asked him to do that, to drive to the exit of the parking garage. And then she asked for consensual sex. Wait, no, no sex whatsoever. Well, we have DNA. Okay, that was consensual. That was consensual. Well, what about the bruises and the scrapes and the torn clothing? She liked it rough. That's how this thing is going to go down, except for the video Irv Miller. And the video shows, I guess your next backup will be what?

Mental defect? Well, that's where this is probably going to go. It's really the only thing that her lawyers even have a remote shot at in trying to resolve this case. But I have to tell you, under Illinois law, this doesn't even come close to the requirements to meet the standards for an insanity defense. It simply doesn't make sense for what the factual situation is to fit into the statute, which requires that to sustain an insanity defense the person lacks substantial capacity to appreciate the criminality of their conduct

well you know it hasn't come out yet uh but in the proffer apparently this uh miss marino took the victim and uh two other nieces to the same place on Navy Pier a week ago without permission. On the day this happened, she stole the keys from the house, took the child without anybody knowing it, drove to Navy Pier, didn't commit any traffic violations. She took the child to McDonald's, bought the child a Happy Meal, saw this accident that your last person was talking about, a possible car hitting the child, that she grabbed the child and moved it away from the car and then walked over to where this chain was next to the lake. She's looking around and she waited until people walked away

so they couldn't see what happened. That doesn't fit the definition of insanity in this particular case. No, I don't think it's going to go insanity. I think it's going to be a try to get a plea deal out of the prosecutor. Nancy, can I just do it's a little like Andrea Yates. I mean, she was schizophrenic, crazy, psychotic. She said that the devil, you know, made her drown her children. However, she waited till her husband, Rusty, went to work to drown them. And locked the doors and took them one by one away in secret so the others wouldn't know what was happening. And then said, I killed my children. And what Tia Ewan is telling us in Fox 32 about the video, Irv is right that she waited and looked around to make sure nobody was there and then pushed the boy.

I'm also looking at a photo of her, and she looks well-kept, well-groomed, in control of her faculties. It looks like she just did her hair outwardly. You know when you walk down the street and you see a person and you know they're mentally ill. And you either try to help them or give them money or call Community Affairs or you take your children and try to get away. So that's not what I'm seeing when I look at her. Also, Irv Miller pointed out, and it's accurate, just the week before, Victoria Moreno had snuck the children out of the home and took them to Navy Pier again. Was she going to try to drown all of them there?

All of them? What we know right now is the little boy is fighting for his life. Speaking of that previous incident, that adds fuel to the flame for prosecutors. Take a listen to our cut 14. This is CBS2 Chicago. Victoria Moreno in court this Wednesday denied bond and charged with attempted first degree murder and aggravated battery to a child. Prosecutors say Moreno took her nephew, three-year-old Josiah Brown, out of his home Monday without the permission from his family. They say Moreno stopped at a McDonald's first to get a happy meal. Then prosecutors say Moreno walked Josiah to the road near the water behind Navy Pier as he got near the

edge of the pier. Prosecutors say Moreno pushed him with both hands in the water. Ashton King, now that you are hearing all of this, when you look back on this incident as the Good Samaritan, what is running through your mind? I, everything just, number one, I can't believe I was put in this situation. Number two, I'm glad I listened to my instincts right away. There's no rule book, there's no manual for these things. You're so right, Ashton. And you are setting an example to so many others that failed to act. We wait and pray for this boy to live. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.