Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Chandra Levy's mom demands new DNA technology be used could help solve daughters DC murder

Episode Date: November 23, 2018

Chandra Levy was a young intern at the FBI's Washington headquarters when she vanished in 2000. Her alleged romantic relationship with U.S. Rep. Gary Condit put her disappearance in the national headlines as suspicions swirled around the congressman. Levy's remains were found in a DC park a year later. Chandra;s mother wants the case reopened with new DNA testing technology used. Cold Case Research Institute Director Sheryl McCollum joined the discussion, noting that new touch DNA technology could help solve the case. Prosecutors however are reportedly not willing to spend funds to use the latest crime-solving technology, such as touch DNA or the M-Vac system, to help solve Chandra’s case. Susan said when she asked prosecutors in Washington, D.C., to retest the evidence in Chandra’s case, they told her “it’s all been done.” Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. No, it's not Santa. It's Nancy Grace. Are you trying to find the perfect gift for a parent or an expecting parent? Please do not give them another onesie. Don't do it. And not another plastic toy that's going to end up in the trash bin or the garage or sent

to Goodwill. This holiday season, give them something that really matters. And what matters more than protecting their child? I sat down with the smartest people in the world that I know when it comes to child safety, finding missing children, and fighting back against predators. And what I learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important. I want you to have it. I want them as parents to have it. Go to crimestopshere.com for a five-part series with action information that you can use to change your life and protect your child. Because I have done it myself based on what they have told me.

And starting right now until midnight, November 26th. You get 40% off when you sign up. 40% off. Give that as a gift. Not another onesie, please. Find out how to protect your child. Out and about. At the mall.

At the store. At the grocery store, in parking lots, in parking decks, at your home, in your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters, nannies, daycare, even protection online. It's the very best gift you can give any parent. And 40% off Black Friday starts now. Go to crimestopshere.com and join the Justice Nation. Crimestopshere.com. God willing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

I will never forget the day that I first learned that this beautiful D.C. intern had gone missing. And I saw the first picture of her. She had beautiful, long, curly black hair, these piercing eyes, tall, thin, perfect skin. I'm like, where is Chandra? Nothing makes sense to me. Joining me right now in a fight for justice is Chandra Levy's mother, Susan Levy. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We all know that at the beginning, it became public knowledge, much to the pain of Chandra's parents,

who were happy when their daughter got this prestigious D.C. internship, you know, which is supposed to open all kind of doors for you, when it was first reported that she had somehow become part of a relationship with a very much married U.S. congressman, and then she goes missing. As the facts began to unfold, much speculation occurred. Today, we are at the impasse. The prosecutors in D.C. have outright refused Ms. Levy's request to retest the evidence in Chandra Levy's murder case.

They have outright refused Ms. Levy to retest the evidence with state-of-the-art DNA such as touch DNA, MVAC, familial DNA analysis, anything. Why? What happened to the evidence? Has it been compromised? Has it been lost? Or are they just tired of the case? No more headlines left to ring out of Chandra Levy's investigation. Why was Ms. Levy turned down? Why was I turned down in my request for her evidence to be retested? Joining me right now is Chandra's mother, who has never given up the fight for justice for her daughter, Chandra. Ms. Levy, thank you for being with us. Thank you.

Tell me why it's so important for you to have the evidence in Chandra's case. I'm referring to her jogging tights, the other items that were found near her remains and the part where she was jogging. Why is it so important to you that this evidence be tested? First of all, there's the Me Too movement. And the Me Too movement, most people can talk about their situation. My daughter, who is deceased, is part of that Me Too movement. And I am a voice because she cannot speak.

And there are questions that have never been answered. There's been no understanding of what really happened. There is new ways of doing forensic testing. And there's always that possibility, that slight possibility, that there might be something that can be found within the new technology that is there. Even though I've been told by prosecutors that everything has been touched and contaminated. Are they experts in the area of technology and biology to know? My question is, there are a lot of loose ends. I'll never get my daughter back, but are there things that don't match up? And that's my question, that if someone may have gotten my daughter in the park,

they took time to make knots in her clothing. Kind of makes me wonder why they had the time to do that. And why they were interested in knotting such as an S&M type attack or a bondage attack on her. You mentioned to me earlier about zip ties or zip ties found anywhere near her remains. I don't know because when it came to the forensic part, I walked out and went to a horse show that was there. Because you did not want to hear it. I didn't want to hear it. Well, what were you told, Susan, when you asked to have her evidence, for instance, her leggings, her running leggings, retested? I mean, think about it, Susan. Whoever tied those knots had to touch the leggings on the inside of the knots,

just like when you tie your shoe. You're leaving behind DNA with new touch technology. I don't understand why there wouldn't be DNA unless it's been compromised in the evidence room. Well, they said that everything was left out for a year out in the open. But the knots were still tied. So what's within those knots would still be there. I don't know if they ever untied the knots or maybe they will untie the knots.

When you asked for it to be retested, what were you told, Susan? I was told that most of the evidence has been compromised because of being in the element for a year and also it was compromised because too many other people have touched it and doing their testing. Well you know what to Cheryl McCollum the director of the Cold Case Research Institute we certainly won't know that unless we try Cheryl. We will not know unless we try Nancy and we've been asking for years number one they need a knot expert to examine those knots and then they need to use the mvat and test those pants if it turns up nothing so what at least we tried nancy they love to say we're going to leave no stone unturned well buddy you've left one unturned on this one you know ch Cheryl, the types of technology that's now available from familial DNA to the use of an MVAC, what could be done? What tests could

be run on Chandra's clothes? And I've got to tell you, I mean, I've got an email right here in front of me that was sent to me that they, the prosecutors, had reviewed all the evidence and think that it's all been done. Well, that was at the time of the trial. Since then, so much DNA technology. I mean, look at Golden State Killer, for Pete's sake. Look at the MBAC. Look at all that has developed since that time, Cheryl. What could be done now that may make a difference in this case?

In answer, they could absolutely use the MBAT, which is the latest, greatest capability that we have to extract DNA, again, from the inside of the knot. They could also do phenotyping, which would give you a picture, literally, of the suspect. You know, an interesting thing, the way this whole thing unraveled was after a series of investigative reports by the Washington Post, police finally get a warrant to arrest a guy named Ingmar Gundike. He was an illegal immigrant from El Salvador.

We all know about the speculation before that. Gary Condit, the congressman, reportedly had had a romantic relationship with Chandra Levy. To this day, he still denies that or will not answer. However, all eyes were turned on him until the Washington Post articles that led to the search warrant that led to the arrest of Ingmar Gundike. Gundike was tried and found guilty. Why? Because he told multiple people behind bars and pen pals, phone pals, that he killed Chandra Levy. He described her. He has a tattoo on himself that looks like Chandra Levy. He had clippings he had saved in his jail cell that are about Chandra Levy. And he had attacked multiple other women in the same park in the same way as they were jogging.

The same M.O. Motorcycle Paramedic method of operation as we think happened to Chandra. That's not the end of the story. He's tried and convicted. And then one witness, one witness says, oh, I was lying. I made that story up about him confessing. So they dropped the whole case. They dismissed charges and sent Gandicke back to El Salvador. Cheryl, I've never heard anything like that in my life. Why not rework the case? How do I know the witness wasn't lying when he said he was lying?

I would just tell the jury that. Nancy, it is the most maddening situation because again, you were my prosecutor. So this to me is the most unfathomable result I've ever seen in my life. First of all, you would never hang everything on a case with one witness ever. You work it from the ground up. Everything. You told us a long time ago in a meeting, Nancy, let's get our hands dirty with facts and evidence. How can you just let one small person dissolve this entire case that took seven years to build? It makes no sense. Take a listen to this with our friend Deborah Roberts at NBC's Dateline documentary. I called up and called up and then she didn't answer. Take a listen to this with our friend Deborah Roberts at NBC's Dateline documentary.

I called up and called up and then she didn't answer. Bob Levy, an oncologist, and wife Susan are expecting their 24-year-old daughter back home in Modesto, California. She was shy. She really liked being at home. Yet her daughter was ambitious, dreaming of a career in law enforcement. You sound like you're very content with the program and everything. Oh, yeah. She'd even volunteered at her local you're very content with the program and everything. Oh, yeah. She'd even volunteered at her local police department before heading to the nation's capital.

She got the internship at the Department of Prisons there. And I think she was interested in going to the FBI. With me today, a woman I feel that I've known for a very long time. When I would see her cry on a TV screen, it would break my heart. Chandra Levy's mother, Susan Levy, who is joining us. She has traveled from California and is with me here in the studio now. Also with me, my colleague, Cheryl McCollum,

director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Ms. Levy, when the D.C. prosecutors told you they had absolutely no intention of using the latest DNA technology on the evidence in Chandra's case, how did that affect you when they basically slammed the door in your face? Well, it made me feel unhappy, though I'm unhappy anyhow, regardless which way, because I don't have my daughter. But I just feel when I've called the police department in Washington, D.C., and asked for them to take a renewed interest in the case, and they said that they are still working on it,

and though I don't believe it. I never heard from them. Working on it how? I mean, they had the guy. They said did it, and then they cut him loose and let him get deported to El Salvador. What are they working on? When Dickey supposedly was up for murder in a case in El Salvador, I don't know if that's true,

but I just never seen anything unravel so fast after this particular lady that talked to the star witness. And I don't understand how someone who is a prime witness, who is under victim's protection, I think, and he was not guarded in his room, and he could just go everywhere, and this lady gets involved, and somehow unbeknownst to him has five hours of tapes

that is talked about that he made a lie, and it's just kind of weird. But wait a minute, Ms. Levy. The case against Gundike was not based on just the one witness who Gundike confessed to. If you look in the file, as you well know, there are multiple people behind bars, his cellmates, that he bragged to that he had killed Chandra.

There is a pen pal that he would talk to regularly, a woman on the phone that he bragged to that he had killed Chandra. There is a pen pal that he would talk to regularly, a woman on the phone that he talked to about the murder of Chandra Levy. There are many people, not just this one star witness, why does he have a tattoo with Chandra Levy's face on his body? Why does he have all the clippings from Chandra Levy in his jail cell? And Cheryl McCollum, even more damning, is not one, not two, but three that we know of. Similar transaction females that he attacked in the same park, just yards away from where Chandra's remains were found. Of course he's involved. Was it him alone? I don't know. Did someone pay him or suggest that he do this? I

don't know that. But I know he was convicted. Why would the state just drop the case and send the guy away to El Salvador and Cheryl McCollum keep the star witness under protective custody, according to reports? Why would they get ugly with Ms. Levy? Nancy, when I called, when you called, when other people called and said, hey, y'all, why don't you review everything and retest the evidence now with the latest, greatest stuff? Instead of saying, wait a minute, maybe that's a good idea.

Let's, you know, get back in the war room and work this thing from the ground up again. No, no. They call Miss Levy angry at her that she's got people reaching out on her behalf. They ignore the fact there's not one but two similar transactions. And, Nancy, you and I both know if you've got very similar crimes in a five-mile radius, that looks good all day. If you've got it within a mile, you can pretty much guarantee it's the same person. In this situation, you're talking about yards. Yards, just yards.

You know, the investigation was bungled at the get-go. There was evidence that in Chandra's apartment building that they had surveillance videos. She goes missing. Nobody gets the tape. They tape over it every 72 hours or something like that, and they lose the tape. They get into her computer and destroy all the evidence. They managed at some point to, you know, re-access much of the computer evidence, but just one thing after the next after the next.

They ignored some 911 call. There was a scream in the apartment complex. And that just doesn't make sense. My daughter would scream if someone was to take her out of there. She doesn't run, by the way, in parks. She is not a park runner. That's interesting. On her computer, there was evidence she had looked up.

There was a mansion in Rock Creek Park as if that's where she were going. That part sounds like an elaborate setup to plant that and have her go there to, what, meet someone? Why would she go there if she didn't typically jog there, Ms. Levy? That's true. Prosecutors are declining to comment on recordings that seem to indicate Armando Morales was lying. He was recorded by a neighbor stating he lied about Gondike, his one-time cellmate, in a Kentucky prison. But what about all the other evidence, Cheryl McCollum, not just Morales? There's hours and hours of tape that they won't release that she won't be able to hear. There are two similar transactions well those are just the two that he was serving time for cheryl there are more than just those two those two women are the two that he was actually doing jail time for attacking them in rock creek park just yards from where chandra's remains were found

there are others that he wasn't prosecuted for. Absolutely, but let's break that down. The other two women were of the same general height as Chandra, same stature, build, dark, curly hair, running in Rock Creek Park with a walk mask at the end of their route, so they're fatigued and they're tired. That is not just an MO. That's

damn near a signature. Ms. Levy, I heard someone ask you just recently, why don't you quote, move on? Well, when I heard the question, it just, as my son said, it was cringy. It literally made me physically cringe. When I heard someone ask you, Miss Levy, why don't you just move on from this? I have to turn every stone. It is my belief that even there's a very possibility that Chandra may have never been killed in that park or may have been taken away and replaced there.

I don't know why I feel that. It's such like deep inside me. But you don't move on when you lose a child. Yes, you go out and live your life the best you know how. But someone out there knows what really did happen, the truth. And I do not want to have my daughter's death forgotten. And if her death meant to open up an avenue for other people to get to their truth quicker, that would be great. I can't say 100% sure that this place is closed and it's cold. Again, the Me Too movement involves those people who have also lost their lives. And in my case, my daughter had been manipulated

and lost her life. And I am her voice. Ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. No, it's not Santa. It's Nancy Grace. Are you trying to find the perfect gift for a parent or an expecting parent? Please do not give them another onesie. Don't do it.

And not another plastic toy that's going to end up in the trash bin or the garage or sent to Goodwill. This holiday season, give them something that really matters. And what matters more than protecting their child? I sat down with the smartest people in the world that I know when it comes to child safety, finding missing children, and fighting back against predators. And what I learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important. I want you to have it. I want them as parents to have it. Go to crimestopshere.com for a five-part series with action information

that you can use to change your life and protect your child because I have done it myself based on what they have told me. And starting right now until midnight, November 26, you get 40% off when you sign up. 40% off. Give that as a gift, not another onesie, please. Find out how to protect your child. Out and about, at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store, in parking lots, in parking decks, at your home, in your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters, nannies, daycare, even protection online.

It's the very best gift you can give any parent. And 40% off Black Friday starts now. Go to crimestopshere.com and join the Justice Nation. Crimestopshere.com. God willing. With me, Chandra's mother, Susan Levy, who has traveled from California. Also with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum. Cheryl, I tried with the prosecutors to get them to retest the evidence. I hit a stone wall, and I kept trying with all diplomacy I could muster. Ms. Levy tried. That's the outrage that a victim's mother was treated that way. And it hurts me, Cheryl. I was a felony prosecutor. I am a crime victim. I feel like I'm still part of the justice

system, as we all are. And it hurts me about what is going on right now. When you tried, Cheryl McCollum, to get the evidence retested, Essentially, I got the message, well, I'm about to retire. You know, I'm not touching this case. It's over as far as I'm concerned. Forget about it. Basically, is that the nutshell of what you got? Pretty much what I got. The first thing she wanted to do was correct how I addressed her. Each state and city, they, you know, they have different things they call their prosecutor. So it could be an attorney general, you know, whatever. So she wanted to be sure that I had the right title. And so I knew at that point it was going to go south. But here's the thing, Nancy, you and I both started our careers really as victim advocates, whether it was in the courtroom or the battered woman shelter or rape crisis, that's what we did. And in this case, when you

look at what Ms. Levy has been through, her daughter goes missing. They do not find her for a year, even though they supposedly searched that area. After that, there was a period of seven years, Nancy, where she didn't hear a word from the police or prosecutors or anybody. Seven years of not knowing what the heck was going on with this case. And now she's asking for something very small. It's nothing to get this tested. We even offered to freaking pay for it. Well, I didn't know that part, Cheryl.

You offered to use your own facilities and equipment that you can access to retest the evidence in the Shonda Levy case. And even though it would not cost their office one penny, they declined? They won't even respond. And they, again, they got very ugly with her, not knowing why she had Nancy Grace call up there. Well, she had Nancy Grace call up there because Cheryl McCollum couldn't get it done. Well, I'm sorry to say you and I are frying in the same pan right now. We're stewing in the same pot. I couldn't get it done either. But what really burns me up is talking to Ms. Levy like that. Ms. Levy, when you called for Chandra's evidence to be retested, what was their demeanor?

They just didn't give me any answer. Is there any way that they're still working on this? And the police, you know, they kind of beat around the bush and they really said there's nothing more that can be done. Really? Yeah. They haven't heard about the bush, and they really said there's nothing more that can be done. Really? Yeah. They haven't heard about the MVAC and touch technology? Well, that's what I told them. And then they said, oh, you know, it's all been washed out.

That's what we did is wash the stuff out or something. I guess they figure it's a wet vacuum, and it'll wash all the evidence out. It's not my understanding what technology is, but I know that there have been cases like the California killer, serial killer, that they were able to find out who that man was. And there's always that chance that maybe we can find out a little bit more than what we know already. Well, what I'm saying, Ms. Levy, is that star witness, and I'm saying that with air quotas, liar or no liar, I would argue to the jury he was lying when he said he was lying, okay, if I believed in my case.

But forget about him. If there is DNAna there you don't need him and what skin off their back is it to have it retested what have they lost it it's somewhere lost in the evidence room or worse what would how would it hurt them to take the evidence with their own little hot little hands to the crime lab and have an impact. Maybe they don't know where they put the evidence at. I'm not sure. I hate to say that I went to pick up my daughter's clothing, belongings that she had, and I went to an awful part of town, and they have thousands of other murder boxes of people's remaining clothing. And knowing the way the government works, maybe they don't know what they're always doing.

Well, I've got to tell you, you know, that strikes me to the core because my whole world has been built on being part of the system. But I know that the system fails and that it is very hurtful, but also very true. And Klinga Mansion, one time I went on my own investigating what Klinga Mansion is about. And I found all kinds of advertisements. You know, they do weddings, they do children's parties. But at that time that I was investigating on my own, they said we can do everything that your heart desires to imagine. And then it makes me wonder if there's more to Kalinga than we all know.

Regarding why she was there. Right. Why she was near that. So is there a possibility? It's kind of like a, well, I'll say a mansion in the middle or near Rock Creek Park where Chandra's remains were found. We are talking with Chandra Levy's mother who is back in the fray now after being absent, processing the loss of her daughter, the trial and the shocking aftermath after the killer who was convicted by a jury

is set free to go home to El Salvador. I don't understand it. She doesn't understand it, why the case wasn't reinvestigated and tried again. I want to go back to something very important, Ms. Levy. To many people, Chandra's name is now a headline. They don't remember the pain that you suffered. I don't think it's a headline in the same way that it was before because it's a new generation.

10, 20 years, I've gone to schools and speak for the day of respect. And it's amazing because it's a new generation. And the longer that you go, the more the name isn't a headline because people forget. You know what? Let's remind them. The day that Chandra disappeared, tell me about what was happening that day in your life when you discovered your daughter was missing. When my husband first kind of realized before I did, because he had made many, many calls and didn't get any calls back. And she was supposed to come home for her college graduation, and we didn't know what her plans were.

And it's highly unlike her not to tell us that when she was coming back. So that my husband kind of knew before I did or suspected. And then later on, I wound up calling our congressman. And then what happened? Well, actually, my husband called the FBI and the congressman, and then a second time I called and got Muzak and finally asked if he knew where Chandra was. And later on we got phone deals. That's because she was an intern. She was an intern, and we got our phone records, which was very hard to get from Verizon or whatever, AT&T. I don't know what we had.

I think it was Verizon. And we had to go through a lot of ropes to get that, and there were many, many, many, many calls going to his office day and night. I don't understand why you were having to do this and not the police. I don't know if the police did, but we did. Okay. And then what did the cell, what did the phone records reveal? That she was calling constantly to a specific number. And that number was who? It was, belonged to Gary Condit. And of course he told me that basically he gets a lot of calls from interns and people who want to know advice about, like, FBI and, you know, get a second language, you know, so you can get into the programs.

Take a listen to Congressperson Gary Condit talking with our friend Dr. Phil. You developed a friendship with her, and you saw her outside the office, correct? I saw her one time. I'm sorry? I saw her one time outside the office at a restaurant and she came by my condo once. She came by your condo once? Well, maybe twice. Yeah, I think it was twice she came by. Okay. But once again, I want to make this clear. There's nothing unusual about someone coming by my condo. A lot of people did. So, you know, people have made some speculation about that being something special, but I, you know. Well, were the police making something out of that? Trying to?

You're trying to, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they were trying to make something out of everything they could. Gary Condit, the congressperson, was actually in a meeting with the then vice president. So i know he was not there at the time we think chandra went missing but i also know cheryl mccollum that he has waffled on how many times he saw chandra to explain away all the phone calls all the messages he left there at her home as a matter of fact let's take a listen listen to Congressman Condit leaving a message with Chandra. Now, again, Cheryl, we know that at the time we think Chandra went missing, that he was actually in a closed-door meeting with the vice president, okay?

Regarding his relationship with her he's always been very very unclear may i add something please uh anyone who is asked not to carry their id and wallet with them to me is setting them up why do do you say that? Well, it just seems like, it just seems ironic that if someone didn't have ID and wallet, how, you know, if something happened to them, then you would not be able to identify them as fast. I know that I've been told that, oh, he didn't want to be, you know, incriminated. But basically, i just can't believe she would not carry id and wallet and also she left some of her jewelry like a hand of god it's a little necklace i gave to her in israel she left it in the apartment and she never takes it off except maybe showering and just something doesn't strike me

do you think someone told her not to carry her id oh whenever she went to see him how do you know that she i think either linda or chana told me i guessed that she was seeing him. But why would you go out without an ID? Why would you go running in, if you're going to a park, without a phone, without an ID? It doesn't make sense. To Cheryl McCollum, the gist for me of what Ms. Levy is saying is that there are so many loose ends in the case that have never been tied up, never been answered. And I have a couple other questions. As far as people in jail that have killed people, do they always put their tattoos about the women that they have killed on their body? Or do people who are in jail just generally make tattoos of attractive

women? You know, Cheryl, have you seen the tattoo that Gondike has? It's Chandra Levy. It's her face. It is certainly a striking resemblance, Nancy. There's no doubt about that. And again, it begs the question, why? Why would he do that if it's not to brag or to force people to ask him about it so that he can tell the story? Well, to hear it from Defense Attorney Bernie Grimm, he and I got into a fight over it. He says that Gondike bragged about killing Chandra to make himself a big guy behind bars. But to me, you don't brag about that. He told that to a pen pal that he talked to on the phone. He told people behind bars.

He told the so-called star witness Morales. He said that to many other people combined with keeping clippings about Chandra Levy, having her face tattooed on his body. Not only that, attacking multiple women within yards of where Chandra's remains were found in the same M.O., dark-headed women jogging in the park from behind. Nancy, you would have walked right up to him before this trial had ever started, and you would have said, tell me one thing about that scene that's never been in the paper. Either he can or he can't. You're right. If he knew something very specific,

where's her pinky ring? Tell me what kind of knot the pants were tied in. Tell me something. Educate me. I bet he can. Chandra's mother is with me here, Susan Levy. Do you recall that day you learned Chandra was no longer a missing person, but her remains had been identified? It's a horrible day. Your world is shattered. Nothing is never the same. And you ask God why. And it tempts your faith in the belief of God,

because God is sleeping on the job. That's how I felt. My husband used to say that. Now I feel more that way. Why such violence? Why did this ever have to happen? And how many other people that have gone through the same thing. And I even think of that, people that may have been in my community that went missing, and they could find that person's body or remains. So it's not easy. This is not easy to be here doing this.

And I wish we had my daughter's ability to be able to tell us, you know, but she'll say, what difference does it make? And I say, it makes a difference for a lot of people. Do you believe, Cheryl McCollum, that there were claims of prosecutorial misconduct, which I don't necessarily believe? Do you believe that this is just a sore spot for the prosecutors, that they don't want to reopen a can of worms? Is that what they consider this case to be? Nancy, I don't know. I mean, again, I'm pretty fooled because you were my prosecutor and then I had a string of other prosecutors that were extraordinary as well, and they would fight, they would put cases up,

even if they believed they were going to lose them because they knew it was the right thing to do. And in this situation, I cannot think of a reason that you would not double back, start over, build your case without the one lying witness or, to your point, put him up and make him now talk about it. Why would you lie? And then all these other people didn't lie. You know, the pen pal had no reason to lie. The other cellmates had no reason to lie. His tattoo don't lie. His similar transactions

don't lie. His criminal history in El Salvador don't lie. Put it up. I don't understand any of this. This is what I know. I know that this case garnered attention at the beginning because Congress, then Congressperson Gary Condit had allegedly been having a romantic relationship with a female intern over 20 years younger than him, a married congressman. Well, police say he has been exonerated, that he was in a meeting with the Vice President, Dick Cheney, at the time Chandra goes missing. But what about Gundike? Why was he cut free? Why hasn't the case been prosecuted?

And more to my point right now. Why are prosecutors stonewalling Chandra's mother on retesting the evidence? This case is not over. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.