Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Charles Manson heads to hell! Youngest 'Family' member tells her story

Episode Date: November 20, 2017

Charles Manson's life prison sentence has ended. Diane Lake was just 14 when Manson lured her into his "family," making her the youngest member of the cult when it was busted in the wake of a series of mass murders. Lake, who wrote about her experiences in her book Member of the Family, shares her story with Nancy Grace in this episode. Major crimes investigator Karen Smith and Manson expert Alisa Statman, author of Restless Souls: The Sharon Tate Family's Account of Stardom, the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice, also join the discussion. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Is Charlie Manson crazy? Whatever that means. Sure, he's crazy as mad as a hatter. What difference does it make? I took the knife and I started stabbing and I turned into an animal almost. You know, I just completely let out on that woman's back.

Did you tell the women to do their witchy things? I said, if you're going to do something, leave something witchy. Just like I would tell you, if you're going to do something, do it well and leave something witchy. Leave a sign to let the world know that you were there. Have a good day.

Right now, Charles Nansen, the leader of the killer cult, is dead. And his stay in the penitentiary was just a pit stop to H-E-double-L, a former convicted felon. He brings together dozens of young people, dozens of, let me just say, misfits, people that felt they were misfits anyway, whether they were or not. He brought them all together as a family. They all settled in together, kind of commune style, at a ranch near L.A. But then for two nights, he instructs his followers to go on a murder spree. And they do. Horrific murders, some crime scenes unlike anything police had ever seen before.

Words written on the walls and the victims' blood. Dead bodies strewn through fancy homes in the L.A. area. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Right now, joining me, a very special guest. In fact, two of them. Diane Lake, the author of Member of the Family, a new book out now.

The youngest member of the Charles Manson family. She later helped send him to jail. Also joining me, the author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate family's account of stardom, the Manson murdersders, and A Crusade for Justice. Elisa with us along with Karen Smith, major crimes investigator, and Alan the Deep, joining me from LA. Thank you all for being with us. First to Diane Lake, author of Member of the Family. Diane, when you hear it laid out so coldly that this former convict managed to bring together a band of self-professed misfits as a family who then go on a deadly murder spree. What was it about Charles Manson that attracted you?

What about him was so compelling? He was very charismatic. He had the ability to become whoever it was that you needed in your life. What do you mean by that? I felt alone. I didn't feel like I fit in with the counterculture groups that I'd been introduced to previously, and he welcomed me. And the girls welcomed me, and he was a musician, primarily singing songs that he'd written. And he was playful and really very loving in the beginning. With me is the youngest member of the Manson family. Her name is Diane Lake, and she's the author of a brand-new book, Member of the Family.

Now, Diane, you met Charles Manson at just 14 years old and were increasingly mystified and intrigued and captivated with him. How old was he when you met him at age 14? I believe he was 34. Wow. Okay. He's 34. You're 14. Explain to me when you say playful and loving, what do you mean by that? He, you know, tousle your hair, make jokes, make funny faces. He had a way of just making you feel like you were the only one that he loved. The only one that he loved. Was he having sex with different women in the group?

Yes. Was he a father figure or a boyfriend figure to you at age 14? I wanted to marry him. Well, you know what, that's not uncommon for a 14-year-old girl to become captivated by some guy she meets. When I say older, I would usually mean like 15, not 34. But when you say you wanted to marry him, did he say anything to make you believe that could happen? No. Did he sleep with you? Yes. I mean, as in the sex way, not the snoring way. Yes. When you look back on the fact that a 34 year old man had sex with a 14-year-old girl who was totally smitten with him. How does that make you feel?

Not good. Diane, I agree with you. And I, like many, many women, you look back in situations and things that happened and at the time it's too confusing frankly to be angry or to really know what's happening but then as you grow up and you mature and you look back that feeling of anger and kind of a helpless feeling because you were so naive at the time, a real babe in the woods. It's just a real feeling of resentment and anger and also resignation. Did you ever feel like it was your fault that you had sex with Charles Manson when you were just 14? Most definitely. I took responsibility for what happened to me

for a long time. You know, Diane, if you were here with me right now, in the studio with me, I've just got chills on my arms and my legs because I know how you feel. And so many women know how you feel. And so many women know how you feel. At the time when you're 14 years old and you're going along with it, at the time you think, oh, okay, this is fine.

But when you look back and you realize what happened to you, it's very upsetting. And to hear you say the words, not good, that's, I'm going to always remember those two words, Diane Lake, not good. Because sometimes they're just not, they're right words to explain how you feel looking back on being a crime victim. Diane Lake is with me, the author of Member of the Family. It's a brand new book and it describes her experience falling under Charles Manson's spell. How eventually after a very long battle, including being institutionalized, working through it, and even now, the feelings she has about what happened to her. It's an incredible, incredible book. When you say you, quote, fell under his spell.

I know what that means to me, but what does it mean to you, Diane Light? You fell under his spell. He, as I said, was very charismatic, playful, seemingly intelligent, and the other girls had such a devotion for him it was easy and and being not with my family and not feeling like i really belonged with the life that they had chosen just made me and and that his family he and his family of girls made me feel so welcomed and part of them. That was the magic for me.

Can I ask how did the other, as you call them, girls feel about him sleeping with all of them? There was enough love to go around. We all, I think at times, there was like, oh, does he love her better than me? But for the most part, no, we loved him and we loved each other. I'm just pausing to digest all that.

You know, Alan Duke, believe it or not, there are times that I'm not speaking. Just trying to take in what you're saying and how this must have felt as a 14-year-old girl. What about your real family, your biological family? Now or then? Well, then I know that they gave you a note. I guess you would call your mom and dad hippies, for lack of a better term, gave you a note granting you permission to leave them. How did that happen? I was on an acid trip, not with Charlie. I didn't know him,

but with another family and my own family as well. And I felt that I heard God's voice telling me it was time to leave home. So I had a conversation with my parents about it. And we were living with another couple with children at that time, and they had invited me to stay with them. So my parents wrote me a little note, basically giving me my emancipation. And I think there was a legal document that could have been created, giving me emancipation as a minor. But this was just a handwritten note, you know, that we did on the coffee table. And I carried it around in my pocket for a few years. And I never used around in my pocket for a few years. And I never used it.

I never had to use it. Did you ever miss your parents during your time away from them? There were times that I did, but I didn't feel like I belonged in the commune that they were living in. Did they know? Did your mom and dad know people were giving you acid? Yes. My first acid trip was taken in my living room before we dropped out and had been provided to me and my best friends by my dad.

Why? Diane, like, why would your dad give you acid as a little girl? I don't think he saw me as a little girl. And this was the beginning of the counterculture, you know, the summer of 67. And my parents were caught up in the whole Timothy Leary, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, the whole counterculture movement.

They really believed that this was a way, a new way to live, trusting God, not being, you know, being enlightened with drugs, hallucinogenics, and, you know, living in a communal situation. Can I ask you how they got the idea that trusting God, that God would want them to send their 14 year old daughter on an acid trip? How does that translate? And I'm not judging. I'm curious, because I don't understand it. Well, they met this commune called the Oracle. They also, the Oracle got started in San Francisco, you know, as an underground newspaper. And then L.A. started one.

And my father got involved with them because he wanted to do, he was an artist, and he wanted to do some of their artwork. So he got involved with them. But the whole Oracle commune was all about love, sex, and that it was okay, even for children. So they just kind of got all caught up in that mindset. What was life like with the Manson family? What would a typical day be for a 14-year-old girl essentially living in a sex relationship with a 34-year-old man, Charles Manson? I spent a lot of time, you know, just outside in nature enjoying, and I did, I did enjoy living at Spawn Ranch. Beautiful hills and trees and rocks and little streams.

And I remember spending a lot of time out in nature. You know, I didn't have sex every day. It was not that concentrated or that wasn't the total focus. We would prepare meals, got food from various locations, including the dumpsters behind grocery stores, found some great stuff that, you know, the grocery stores were throwing out. And then, you know, there were a couple of babies that came along and taking care of the babies, playing with them and taking care of George, helping around the ranch. And cleaning, cleaning, making things nice, making things organized. I was kind of an organizer. And then in the evening, we would sit around Charlie, and either he would, you know, be philosophizing or instructing or playing music,

usually playing music, and we would sing along. What would Charles Manson be philosophizing and instructing about? About life and about, you know, getting rid of your inhibitions and basically, you know, forget what your parents taught you. Some of the same formats or premises that my own, you know, father had bought into, which was getting rid of materialism out of your life and just living from the here and the now. Did your parents have any idea that you were living with Charles Manson? Yes.

Did they have any idea he was a convicted felon at that time? No. You know, when you say, we didn't have sex every day. Well, you know, Diane, most 14 year old girls don't have sex ever. Because it's actually statutory rape. So to hear you say that, I just think of you as a 14 year old girl in that world. What do you think all the acid trips effect had on you? Acid trips for the most part, for me, were good. I mean, they were good experiences. I had a few bad trips. But considering how many times I did take acid, I really did not have that many, what I would call a bad trip. So

mostly, it would just, you know, open your mind to what a perfect world might be. And I know that it doesn't sound right when I say it. It's craziness. But I have three children, and that, not even pre-teen, but the early teen years, you think you're an adult. You don't think of yourself as a child. Well, what made you decide that you wanted to leave Charles Manson and the family? I was there when we were at the last arrest. What do you mean? I didn't leave him. Okay, I thought you helped put him behind bars.

I did. So you had to leave him at some point. Right. Was that against your will? No, I was put in jail, and after a few months of good food and no drugs and reading and overhearing people say, those poor girls are never going to make it. And before I went into the grand jury, the bailiff asked me my name, and I told him, I'm Diane Lake. I'm 16, and I want my mommy.

So I had really come to the conclusion that I'd made a big mistake. I didn't belong here, and I wanted out. Why? Why did you want out? That was when I began to tell the truth, to tell the authorities what I had seen, you know, what I had heard. I didn't want to live in this situation anymore. I, you know, woke up to the fact that it was wrong. What was your part in sending Manson to jail. I, you know, testified that his escalating behavior about the White Album, about, you know, helter-skelter,

and I testified what other people had told me that he had asked them to do. What did he ask you to do? He didn't ask me to do anything. Other people told me what he asked them to do. I understand. What did he ask them to do? Basically to start Helter Skelter, to go and do something witchy in these different homes. To start the Helter Skelter race war? That was the, I don't know if he used those words, but that was

later on, I realized that that was the intent. So by going and murdering people in that L.A., California area and surrounding area, how was that supposed to start a race war? I don't know. I mean, Bobby Beausoleil had been arrested for killing Gary Hinman. I mean, this is looking back and trying to figure out what happened and why. It's like there is some idea that perhaps they wanted to make it look like Helter Skelter had started.

Because of what happened to Gary Hinman, that they were going to do more of the same. And look, because Charlie had been talking about a race war for a long time, and he'd been hearing about a race war for a long time during his various incarcerations and being in reform school. He'd been hearing this his whole life. When you testified in court and you saw Charles Manson, how did he appear to you? How did that make you feel? I was very nervous about testifying in front of him

because I knew that he would be unhappy with me and I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to look him in the eye because I would remember the good times. But one of the very first questions, he showed me that it was all about him. What do you mean? One of the questions that they asked me was, I in love with Charles Manson. And I said, I guess so. And he immediately chimed in, don't put it all on Mr. Manson. She loved everybody. And I could see that he, again, he was playing the whole courtroom. And I realized that he really didn't, he didn't love me. And the spell was broken. With me is Diane Lake, the author of a brand new book.

Member of the family, Diane was the youngest member of the Charles Manson so-called family. After leaving the family, she actually had to be institutionalized in order to ultimately break free of the life with Charles Manson and the drugs and the lifestyle. She went on to help the state put Charles Manson behind bars. Today, with Diane Lake, Karen Smith, and Elisa Statman, would not be possible without our partner, who is making our program possible. It's LegalZoom. As business owners out there, you know how important it is. You got to keep moving forward. But so often things come up

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I want you to take a listen to Charles Manson speaking. I'm not a violent human being. Did you tell the women to do their witchy things? I said, if you're going to do something, leave something witchy. Just like I would tell you, if you're going to do something, do it well. And leave something with you. Leave a sign to let the world know that you were there. Have a good day. Did you tell them which words? No.

Pig? No. Helter Skelter? No. Arise? No. That's not my vocabulary. That's not my generation.

I keep telling you that. My generation. Leslie said, in the car on the way to the LaBianca house, you said, this time, make sure they're not scared like last night. Oh, no. It might have been something like this. Yeah, I remember something like that, but I don't remember exactly the right words.

I don't remember exactly the right words, but that's a simple philosophy from China. That's a Chinese philosophy. If you're going to go to war and you're fighting your enemy and you kill him when he's afraid, it's a bad omen. It's bad. It's bad. So you try to absorb the fear with, I think the Hindus use that word,

karma. It's a balance of karma. To Elisa Statman, author of Restless Souls, The Sharon Tate Family Account of Stardom, Manson Murders, and Crusade for Justice. Elisa, we have both been listening, I've been transfixed listening to Diane Lake describe what life was like as the youngest female member of the Manson family and to hear her talk I can get a glimpse of life inside that so-called family and how everything that I think is wrong, so many things that I think is wrong, was normal. Giving a 14-year-old child acid that forever can alter your brain, forever can alter your psyche for the rest of your life. Having full-blown sex between a 34-year-old man and a 14-year-old girl. No school, just wandering around.

Having the child help gather food from dumpsters and prepare food and basically make it a harem for Charles Manson to sit around and strum his guitar and hypothesize at night. It just, and then to hear her say, Elisa, she felt like it was her fault. And I get it. That's really how so many assault victims feel. Elisa Statman, author of Restless Souls, I want to hear your thoughts on listening as you were listening to Diane Lake along with me.

You know, Nancy, it's heartbreaking to listen to Diane because, you know, she is the story of every abused child, in my opinion, and Manson took advantage of that. I think that what's really amazing about Diane, and to emphasize this, is that even though she was there and under Manson's spell, and she says this in her book, she knew the difference between right and wrong. She knew that she was an individual. And I think it speaks volumes to those who are in prison and those who aren't. You had this 14 year old girl who was more impressionable than anybody, who was abused by him more than anybody. She was hit by him, hung upside down by him and by all means believed him to be Christ in her words. And yet she didn't murder. And I think that that speaks volumes about those who did murder. I think that it is an amazing story that Diane came out on top of this

and not only came out on top of it, but was, you know, tantamount to the prosecution's star witness in helping to put them behind bars. That took an incredible amount of courage for this 16-year-old at the time to come against somebody who she knew could retaliate, who she loved and yet feared. And it's truly an amazing yet heartbreaking story. But, you know, going back to what I was saying, it just emphasizes why those who killed for Manson should stay where they are. They were no less impressionable than Diane was. And yet they had it in them to kill. And Manson knew who had it in them to kill and Manson knew who had it in them to kill and who didn't there's a reason Diane didn't go out on those nights because Manson knew she didn't have it in her she was a

decent human being on the inside she wasn't a savage killer like Susan Atkins Patricia Kronwinkle Leslie Leslie Van Houten, Charles Watson. Manson knew those people would kill, and they did. Diane Lake, author of Member of the Family, I'd like to hear your response to Elisa Statman's comment. Well, she really painted quite the picture. And not that it's not true it's just that it's really hard to hear that viewpoint why what is what is hard about it and I know that's the viewpoint that

you know I as if I had been mature would have seen would have probably seen, but I didn't. And it's really hard to look at yourself as a victim. And I really did not see myself as a victim until fairly recently. Diane, when you hear Alyssa describe being hung upside down and hit, what happened? He threatened to hang me upside down. He never actually did hang me upside down, but he did threaten to hang me upside down and skin me alive. Why? paying attention. We were in the desert. These crimes had been committed, and he demanded our undivided attention. And I really, I think I had really lost connection with myself and with my situation. Well, I mean, you're a 14-year-old girl being fed LSD, acid,

and having sex with a grown man, and you're out in the middle of the desert with no family or parents to support you. I can understand being disconnected. Did you think when he told you he'd hang you upside down and skin you alive, did you believe him? Yes. At that point, I certainly did. You were not asked to go and commit murder.

You heard the others talking about it. Would you have gone if he had told you to? I don't think so. I would have. I feel that I would not have been able to do that. And like Elisa said, I don't think I was asked because I think he knew that. When you heard the others come back and talking about the killings, what was their attitude, their demeanor toward what they had done? I didn't hear about it from the girls until we were in the desert. But they were almost like bragging.

That's how I remember them telling me. They were kind of like morbidly gleeful about it. In what way? What did they say? Just like, oh, and we did, you know, and we did this and we did that and... Did what? You know, at first, I think one of the girls told me that they, you know, they stabbed somebody and first, you know, and then it became, then it was fun. I don't know. It's just, oh, their demeanor more than what they said is the memory that I have. And that they were proud to have done this. You know what?

At that time, you were only four years older than my little twins are, and I cannot imagine them out in a desert with Charles Manson listening to these people acting worse than animals, gleeful over what they had done. With me is Karen Smith, crime scene investigator, forensics expert. Karen, thank you for being with us. The reality of the murder scenes. What happened, Karen Smith? They were horrific.

The first murder scene took place on Cielo Drive on August 8th, 1969. And at that scene, essentially, they report five people were killed, but essentially it was six because Sharon Tate was almost to term with her pregnancy. And at that time, Stephen Parent, Abigail Folger, Witek Frykowski, Jay Sebring, Sharon Tate, and her unborn child were all murdered. They were shot, stabbed. There was evidence of strangulation, writing on the walls and the victim's blood. There was blunt force trauma and blood from one end of that house to the other and out into the front yard. On the next night were the LaBianca murders,

where Lino LaBianca was stabbed 12 times with a bayonet, a fork was left in his neck, and the word war was carved into his chest, and his wife Rosemary was stabbed 41 times. I've worked a lot of homicides, but I have never seen crime scene photos to this extent in my life. I mean, the thought of plunging a fork into a human. I just, it's hard for me to even take it in. Diane Lake, the author of new book, Member of the Family, when you hear the

stark reality of the murders, innocent people, a woman, nine months pregnant, carved up with a knife. Words like pig and war written in blood on the walls. And you were in the middle of these people. How did you survive? You were a little girl, Diane. I, by the grace of God, that's all. And that's part of the reason I'm writing this book or I wrote this book is because I, it is an amazing story and I give all the glory to God for getting me through with my wits still attached and you know when I hear the

description I'm just I'm just absolutely horrified I've got tears in my eyes. It's just, I just can't imagine being on either end. And I, I have so much compassion for the families because not only was it bad to start with, but they have to relive this every time one of these people come up for parole. It has to be relived and gone over again. And from my understanding, I've never been to a parole hearing, but they are eight to ten hours long. Melissa Statman, author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate family's account of stardom, the Manson murders, and a crusade for justice. What do you know of the crime scenes and what happened to Sharon Tate and the other victims? Well, you know, as I said, it was one of the most horrific crime scenes, I think, in the history of crime scenes. You had Sharon Tate, who was strung up by a rope, stabbed 16 times. You had Wojtek Prokofsky, who was stabbed 51 times,

beaten over the head 13 times and shot twice. Abigail Folger was chased down, tackled by Patricia Cranwinkle and stabbed 21 times. J.C. Bring was shot once, stabbed seven times. And Stephen Parent was shot four times. You know, the following night, as Karen said, Rosemary and Lino LaBianca, you know, in the supposed sanctity of their own home, were killed in the most brutal way. We had Lino LaBianca, who was stabbed multiple times with a knife thrust through his throat and a fork with the word war carved into his into his abdomen and and rosemary la bianca stabbed 41 times and and you know i think that the horror of this is so uh multiplied by the fact that they were in the supposed sanctity of their own home. You know, this was a rampage then.

I don't think it gets any more horrific or scary than that. And the fact that these people were able to, you know, you have to, and I think that, you know, this Nancy stabbing is a very personal crime. You're up close. You're holding them down to look these people in the eye as they were doing it. And, and the overkill that was used to look a pregnant woman in the eye and tell her as Susan Atkins did look, bitch, I don't have any mercy for you. You're going to die and you better be ready. And then to stab her in the heart, you know, three times as she's pleading for the life of her baby. Let me live. Let me have my baby and you can kill me any way you want.

You know, I think what is lost over the years is the horror that these victims went through and the screams and the pleas to live, you know, are all but forgotten. And when you put yourself, as a family member does, as Diane was saying in her parole hearings, and you have to hear these details over and over, for the victims of the families who sit and listen to it, they're not hearing the details. They're hearing their loved ones screaming. They're wondering about the fear that their loved ones went through in their last moments of life. And that, I think, is the most horrible part of these parole hearings. And, you know, let's remember back to when Doris Tate was doing this. These parole hearings were every year. And now, you know, through new laws, you can do it up to 15 years. But let's remember back to when this all started

they were going to him year after year after year and reliving this horror that their loved ones went through. Well I've got to tell you Alyssa, I can't stand to think back on my fiance's murder I don't like to think about it, I don't like

people to bring it up to me if I bring it up, that's one thing I'm prepared mentally to think about it. I don't like people to bring it up to me. If I bring it up, that's one thing. I'm prepared mentally to talk about it, but it makes me think about what he went through. And while it was horrible, it's nothing compared to a pregnant mother begging for the life of her child. Today, with Diane Lake, Karen Smith, and Elisa Statman would not be possible without our partner who is making our program possible and it is Link AKC. Christmas is right around the corner with all the other holidays. Don't leave your dog out of the fun. Get the Link AKC smart collar. The new must have gift believe it or not. It's backed by the american kennel club the link akc collar is a gps locator and a fitness activity tracker all rolled into one smartphone app it even has an led

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There's mixed feelings. For the most part, I have the support of my children and my mother, my fiance, and certainly my church family, my pastor. What do you mean, for the most part? There's a few people in my family that are upset with me. Why? Because it reflects badly on my mother. They should be praising God you're alive. And frankly, if it weren't for your mother and father, you would not have been in that predicament. And I'm not. Okay, you know what I am judging I'm not judging you because you were a child and it is a

miracle a divine miracle I believe that you survived and had to live through being institutionalized what was that like being in an institution to get your mind straight after all you went through? Saved my life. That was a wonderful experience. It really was. And it is what you had to do to survive. Well, I was in a protected environment. I learned how to play the flute. I went back to school. I had all these loving psychologists and psychiatrists and nurses, you know, and technicians. I'm so grateful that was there for you. I'm so grateful for them too. When they say it reflects badly on your mother, are your mother and dad, mom and dad still alive? My father passed away 15 years ago. What, what did they have to say for themselves about allowing you to be in that situation? They, they regret it. They, my, my father said we threw the baby out with the bath water.

They've, you know, he apologized. My mother has, you know, apologized. But on the other hand, they were caught up in the, you know, this enlightenment, this counterculture movement. Diane Lake, I hear you even now protecting your mom and dad for literally throwing you to the wolves. And you know what? That is unconditional love. It is.

I know you don't want to see that they did wrong by you. They didn't intend to. And I just am grateful you're here today to speak with me. Your book is incredible. If I could change what happened to you, I would. But for now, I'm going to pray for peace and healing and everything good for you. Thank you. Diane Lake, author of Member of the Family. Alyssa Statman, author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate Family Account of Stardom, Manson Murders and Crusade for Justice. Karen Smith, crime scene investigator and alan duke i want to take

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