Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CHARLIE KIRK DEAD AT 31: SUSPECT PHOTO RELEASED, WEAPON FOUND, MASSIVE MANHUNT

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

The FBI has released images of a person of interest in the Charlie Kirk shooting, offering a $100,000 reward for information. The killer is still at-large  Authorities say the shooter fired from a central building that houses the university's welcome center. Part of that building is just over 100 meters from the location where Charlie Kirk was speaking to an estimated crowd around 3,000.  A live stream of the video, with high-quality audio, captures the assassination. Many in the crowd duck, scream, and start to panic in the moments after the single shot is fired. Police say a high-powered rifle has been found in nearby woods, as well as a "footwear impression... and a forearm imprint."  Joining Nancy Grace today: Greg Morse - Criminal Defense Attorney of Morse Legal, author of “The Untested” found on Amazon; website: morselegal.com  Dr. Chloe Carmichael - Clinical Psychologist, Author of “Can I Say That? Why Free Speech Matters and How to Use it Fearlessly” website: www.FreeSpeechToday.com,  Twitter: DrChloe  Dan Murphy - Former NYPD Detective-Sergeant, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Former Chief Security Officer, US Bancorp, Co-Host of "Gold Shields" Podcast, Author: “Workplace Safety: Establishing an Effective Violence Prevention Program”  Koa Lorimor - Former Army Sniper   Katherine Schweit - Creator of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program, Former Chicago prosecutor and career GBI special agent, Author of “Stop the Killing; How to End the Mass Shooting Crisis” and “How to Talk About Guns to Anyone.”, Host of podcast “Stop the Killing”, website: katherineschweit.com Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of NEW Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue”, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)   Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charlie Kirk, dead at 31. Tonight, the massive manhunt for the assassin who guns down a father of two, two botched arrests so far. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

Charlie Kirk has been shot at Utah University. All witnesses are reporting that all they heard was a single shot that was fired. He's a young man. He's 32 years old. Charlie Kirk was shot at a rally. Dear Lord in heaven, Kirk targeted, we believe, because of his beliefs, gunned down by A sniper, a sharpshooter, an assassin, surrounded by teens and college students. Why? And who? Thank you for being with us. In the wake, the assassin leaves behind a grieving widow, his wife, and two little children who will grow up without daddy. why? Why? Because you disagree with what he says? You don't have to agree with what he says. This is America. Nobody agrees with anything anybody says. Yet he got the death penalty because you

disagree. You know what Kirk would say to people, hey, all of you out there that disagree with me, I want you at the front of the line because I'm going to try to convince you you're wrong. I don't want you to quiet yourselves. I want you at the front of the line. I want to hear what you have to say. But no. To you, the assassin, he had to die. Again, I'm Nancy Grayson.

This is crime stories. I want to thank you for being with us on this very, very dark night. Listen. So do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? too many how many counting counting or not counting gang violence

great chaos chaos chaos on the Utah Valley university campus has thousands of students and locals run from Kirk's booth screaming. Kirk's security team rushes in to action, putting pressure on Kirk's wound and escorting him to awaiting SUV to take him to the hospital. That video you saw originally

is from at Beanie Johnson on X. And you can hear, it's not Kirk asking about how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years. It's a student asking that question. You don't have to agree with the student. You may violently disagree with the student. Kirk was taken out and we will find the shooter and he will face the death penalty. Mark my words. In the last hours, law enforcement has released a facial shot of the perp. I want you to look at it. We can learn a lot. There he is walking. We've also got a shot more head on. But look, there you go, much, much better. That is. him going up the stairwell. He is wearing jeans, a baseball cap, black in color. He's wearing

tennis shoes, and we know he is left behind a foot impression. By the time we see him, he looks as if he is clad all in black, but this is him making his way up the steps. What can we learn? We already knew that it was released. He was college age. Here he is. Clean, shaven. college age, man, do you really think your sunglasses are going to trick L.E. The feds, the locals, the works, good luck. And a couple of days, they're going to know where you bought those sunglasses and what you signed on the credit card slip. What can we learn about this guy, white male college age, slight in build? Joining me right now, forensics expert and professor of forensics Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, I can glean a lot. Let's see the picture

again. I want everybody to see this. There is currently a $100,000 reward on this guy. This guy. Okay, Joe Scott, it looks like he drove away from Mommy and Daddy's house in the suburbs and he decided to shoot somebody. Dad, does he actually have his wallet in his front right pocket? I see a mark on his jeans that tells me that's how he usually carries it. In a moment, I'm going to figure out what kind of tennis shoes he's wearing, but you see the American fly with a gun on it? I'm learning so much right now. Okay, what do you see, Joe Scott?

Well, I see that he has ungloved hands, Nancy. And it looks like in the other shot, it looks like he may be making an effort to grab hold of that rail. Guess what? If you do that. With his forearm, though, look, look, look. He's using his arm on his hand. How do we know that he didn't touch any of those surfaces along the way?

LeCard's principle, every contact leaves a trace. You cannot be this perfect. All right. So up there, there is going to be information that will tie him back, I think. Biological information, we already have evidence that there may, in fact, have been a palm print left behind. You had mentioned a footprint. And also, if the reports are true, and we're hearing about this weapon, that may have been recovered, This is going to be a specific tieback to him, Nancy,

just based upon the process of purchasing one, serial number that's on here, any kind of add-ons that may be found on this weapon. I'm thinking like scopes. And, oh, boy, the ammunition, we've got, from what they are saying, we have a spent round that's still chambered because this weapon is a bolt action.

That means you have to actuate the bolt itself, lift it up, pull it back, that ejects it. This is not a semi-automatic weapon. And then you force another round in. Nancy, he never ejected the round according to what FBI sources are saying. And there are still three other live rounds in the internal magazine of this weapon. And all of them are going to have little bits that are going to be offered up relative to connectivity back to this person potential. Straight out to Dave Mack joining us, investigative reporter, crime stories.

On the case, from the very moment it happened, Dave Mack, what happened? Charlie Kirk is on campus, Nancy, to do one of his events where he speaks to students and talks about all things. I mean, everything's on the table. And in the moments before, you know, right before he, you see him in the tent there, right before that, he was actually throwing hats to the crowd. You got about 3,000 people there. He's throwing hats and talking to people. And before he actually was going to give his speech, he actually opened up microphones for young people to come to the first. and start and ask questions it was kind of a warm up and he was in the about a minute minute 15

seconds into actually sitting where he's right there when the shot hit and because everybody's got a phone this was immediately uploaded nancy people from everywhere could see there was a shot that hit him in the neck now you see everybody scrambling at first well that didn't last but for a minute because people realized wait a minute I only heard one shot and then everything No, wait, wait. You got me drinking from the fire hygiene. It's too much too fast. I want to take every single fact as it happens. Joining me and All-Star Pound makes sense of what we know right now. The massive manhunt is on after two botched FBI arrest. Hold on. You know what? I want to clarify that. I wouldn't call them botched. I would not call them botched. Joining me, Catherine Schweite, creator of the FBI's active shooter program, former Chicago prosecutor, career GBI special agent, author of Stop the Killing, How to End the Mass Shooting Crisis and more. Catherine, people are saying botched FBI arrest.

That's not correct. They arrested persons of interest. They questioned them. And upon questioning them, they released them. What does everybody want them to do? Not take the persons of interest into custody? I mean, it was not botched. I agree with you.

I mean, I don't think that's the right word. We want to proceed with the best and most cautious way that we can. We want law enforcement to not let one person walk away from that area until we are confident that person is not the trigger man. It's very important that you take the time to go through somebody's background, spend the time with them, put them under a little pressure, see whether or not. This is the person that you need to keep on. Listen. UVU by the Samson report of one individual that was not unknown where the shooter went. And as to be advised, UVU in Orem has had an active shooter at the Charlie Kirk event.

We're getting several calls for trying to get more information. They request you. We're not sure yet. We're just trying to get units that way. What you were hearing is the police scanner immediately after the shooting. And what we are doing tonight is picking through the clues left behind and trying to determine what we know happened. You know, I want to go back to Dave Mack.

These two botched, as it's being said, arrests. I agree with Catherine Shreight, a creator FBI active shooter program. They were not botched. Explain exactly what happened, Dave. As this was an evolving story right off the bat, police actually had a man in about in his mid-50s, looks like bald head wearing glasses, blue short pants, and he was immediately, immediately talking to police, and they actually cuffed him and had him on the ground. So again, in this world where everything has to be published for everything, people immediately

said they have the shooter arrested. And they had pictures of this guy. I think his name's George Zinn. Well, George Zinn actually was being confrontational with police, but he's not the shooter. And so all those pictures that were circulated around the world showed a man who was not the shooter. As a matter of fact, the guy. Zen said that he did it. He started yelling that he would do it again, but the reality is

he didn't have a gun. And also in those tight quarters with thousands of people, who knows what he was saying? But he had to be taken into custody. At this hour, we're learning a lot. Let's see the video of the person on top of a roof scrambling away. Straight out to former army sharp shooter sniper koa lormer coa thank you for being with us i'd like you to take a look if you can from your monitor of what we have seen a dark clad figure is above the sparks automotive building that's just one of the shots we have of the perp and i'll just go ahead and say him because statistically this is a man. Observe Coa.

He is in dark clothing, clad all in dark. He dressed up for the event. This was an event, which I'm going to get into with our other guests later, that had been planned for weeks and months. There he is right there. There he is. And he actually jumped off the building. Why is it significant that we know this event had been planned for some time?

because anybody following Kirk would know exactly where he was going to be and COA Loramore. He was in the most vulnerable position at the bottom of a pit, basically in a fish bowl with little security. But for your purposes, COA, I want you to explain to me how you can get a shot. We've been told this is about 200 yards away from where Charlie Kirk was speaking. How do you do that? So, Nancy, you would want to use a high-power rifle like I have right here. This is a bolt-action rifle used for precision shooting. It has a high-powered scope to magnify your target, and it keeps your target very clear.

This would also be someone that has experienced shooting or, been trained. You take anybody off the street, they're not going to be able to make a shot like this. How unusual is it for, let's just say someone of your caliber, a sharpshooter, a sniper, trained specifically to be a sniper? How rare is it to get off a shot 200 yards? Is that normal for an army sniper or is that unique? For an army sniper, it's very normal. I think the minimum distance of our qualifications starts at 300 yards and goes out of that. to a thousand. That was not what I was expecting you to say.

I thought it was going to be rare. But you're saying for an army sniper of your caliber, a 200-yard shot, is that what you're saying? Yes. I don't like that. You know, why don't like that? Because I thought it would be more rare for somebody to pull off a shot like that, Coelor Moore.

But because it's not rare, that widens my pool of suspects. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes. Coa, all right, 200 yards shot. Don't you have to prepare for that? I mean, I find it hard to believe. This is the first time this guy climbed to the top of Sparks Automotive and laid there and tried to get the shot. I think he had to have gone up there before to a sniper's nest and prepare.

He had to have been up there to see where they were putting the tent. He had to be up there beforehand. My point is surveillance video and who was on the grounds prior to the shooting could reveal who is the shooter. Now, Koah, explain to me what you have to do to prepare to pull off a shot like that. Well, this shot isn't just out of luck. The shooter obviously had prior training. He also had to conduct a reconnaissance operation to see where he was shooting, right, where Charlie was going to be at. this obviously was planned. His exit plan was also planned. So this guy didn't get lucky.

It took some very intense planning. Which leads me to Co-a-Don't Move. Dan Murphy joining me, former NYPD Detective Sergeant Joint Terrorism Task, former Chief Security Officer at U.S. Bank Corp, and co-host of Gold Shields. Dan, thank you for being with us. Way in on who is this guy tonight, a manhunt for the assassin after two. arrests already. Let me just say catch and releases of suspicious persons. They were not deemed to be the shooter at the end of questioning. There's the shooter. There's the shooter. What about it, Dan Murphy? Who is this guy? This person knows his way around the campus and this person absolutely went up and did reconnaissance on top of that roof. This person also knows

where the tent that Charlie would be speaking under would be positioned. And as a result, position themselves properly. I have seen in previous cases where people have brought duffel bags filled with goods. This rifle may have been up on that roof already before he walked on campus that day. This person did their planning. You know, it's bringing to mind, Luigi Mangione, who planned for weeks and weeks and weeks to gun down the CEO of the healthcare industry. I want to follow up with what Dan Murphy said. Dan, so you believe he had scoped out, pun he had scoped out the scene before he knew where the tent was going to be and what were you saying about a duffel bag in the past i have seen duffel bags brought up and left on rooftops under uh ashtract vents etc

so that way the day of the incident they can walk up there nice and easy unnoticed they're not carrying a bag in other words it's completely staged nancy so everything would have been there hold on i think i hear katherine shwhite jumping in go ahead katherine you know i just wanted to add concurring with what dan just said You know, when the individual shot at the President Trump in Pennsylvania, he was reconnaissance on the site three times the day of. Just the day of, he traveled more than a half an hour to the site. So it's absolutely planned event, including the reconnaissance. I totally agree with him. And Catherine, Coa, Dan, that's so important.

And this is why? Because he may have left a trail on the prep sessions when he was. when he was going up there. Was he caught on surveillance video? Did he park in a parking deck where he had to go in and out where there are cameras? Who is this guy? We are being told at this hour it is a young male. How do they know that?

I don't know how they know that, but that is the thinking tonight. Back to Coaloramor joining us, former Army sniper who put in literally thousands of hours to become a sharp shooter. You said it's not just look. But what about this? Would, for instance, an army sniper shoot into a crowd of civilians? You had to be very planning calculated, right, just to hit Charlie and not to shoot any other unarmed civilians. He's obviously training at a range prior to.

And if you look at the range logs, that's probably a telltale sign of who was there. COA. Brilliant. Brilliant. You know how a lot of sharpshoes. have been brought down by doing just what you just said, looking at every range, even remote ones within a 25 mile radius to find out who has been practicing. COA, you're dead on.

You know this guy practiced and practiced and practiced and practiced long range shooting. How does that work, COA? You practice laundry and shooting by shooting in different environment types, taking the wind into account. You just have to have time and a lot of rounds downrange. I'm also wondering what we know at this hour to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter. What can you tell me about the discovery of the murder weapon? Directly behind that building, Nancy, is a parking area that's open to everybody and adjacent to that is a wooded area. That's where they found the bolt action rifle in the tree area.

What do you mean the bolt action rifle in the, in the tree area? Are you trying to find a good way to say, no, it was on the ground, but I'm trying to say that it wasn't like on cement in a bag sitting up for everybody. It was actually placed in an area where it wasn't sitting out in the open, but they were able to find it quickly enough. I say bolt action because that's what it has been described as. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Do you, Koah, explain what is a bolt action weapon?

This right here, Nancy, is an example of a bolt action weapon. This itself is the bolt action. It open and closes. So every time you shoot, you have to chamber another round. This is an example of one of the rounds that the shooter could have been shot. This is a 308 and it's one of the most common rounds. Oh, my stars. Just wait a minute. Hold on. I've got to look at that. Zoom in on him. That is the type of bullet that went through Charlie's neck. That is the type of bullet that killed Charlie Kirk. Look at that. This S.O.B.

has got to be caught and put on trial. Explain to me, what type of ballistic is that? What type of bullet is that, Kewa? This is a 308. It's normally used for, the army uses it to take down enemy personnel. It's also used for hunting large game, such as deer, black bear, and wildhogs. So do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years? Too many.

Americans buy. Okay, now, buy is a lot, right? I'm going to give you some credit. Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years? Counting or not counting gang violence? Great. Go ahead, get down, get down. He reached up to his neck and blood was starting to gush out of his neck.

It's about two minutes in when the shot was fired. Charlie Kirk's neck violently snapping back. after the shot rang out. What we believe to be, the murder weapon, has been found in a wooded area not far from the shooting of 31-year-old Charlie Kirk. The assassin leaving his wife without a husband and his two young children without a father. Why? We also know that the bullet has been recovered, so we are told.

Now, is the weapon left behind the weapon? Is it a fake? Is a red herring? We can determine that very, very easily, providing we have the bullet. Dan Murphy joining me, former NYPD Detective Sergeant Joint Terrorism Task Force. Dan, a ballistics test, is easy to run to determine if the bullet that killed Charlie Kirk came from that weapon or is the weapon a weapon? red herring. In a nutshell, explain how that test will be done. These tests are done very commonly

across America any time a weapon is recovered to determine whether or not the rounds found that a scene of a crime can match a weapon. This is done through the art of ballistics, which is looking at the various ways that the bullet itself has changed during the course of its movement, up to including hitting bone, etc. But that bullet can be traced back to the boring inside a rifle. And it can be definitively said in court, this round was fired from this rifle or this handgun. And that's what's going to happen in this case. As it works, the murder weapon will be shot. You will shoot from the murder weapon into, let's just say, a tub of water or into a mattress as a clean bullet hurtles down the barrel of what we believe to be the murder weapon.

The inside of the barrel is unique. like a fingerprint. Why? Because as the gun was made, the metal cooled in a certain fashion with little dots and ridges and imperfections on the inside of the barrel that you can't see. And as the bullet hurls down that barrel, it hits up against those imperfections, leaving what we call a striation mark, which is peculiar to that weapon only. No other. weapon will create those striation marks or scratches. That's an easy way. Then you take the bullet that you just fired the known bullet and you compare it to the bullet found at the scene and you look at them under a microscope and you compare the

striation marks, the scratches on the bullet and they will match if that's the murder weapon or did the shooter or someone else leave a red herring. We also know a footprint was found. Straight out to Greg Morse joining us, high profile defense attorney from Morse legal author of The Untested on Amazon. Greg, um, footprints. You have to make a cast of the footprint. To me, depending on the surface on which you find the footprint, depending on the surface, footprints can be very, very probative. Now, this is out in a wooded area. We think it's where the footprint was found. Hey, wait a minute, Morse. What if the footprint was found where the perp jumped down off the building? That would be a lot easier to test than a footprint

made on soft earth. See what I mean? The footprint, just think of you. Let's see, I don't know what kind of tennis shoe you wear. Let's just say you wear a Brooks. Okay. And you walk through the mud and you then walk on your kitchen floor. The mud leaves a direct imprint of your shoe. Even telling me your shoe size, whether you walk pigeon toad, slew-footed, bear in on your the inside or the outside, it tells me a lot, right? So if they got this footprint where he jumped down, I may get a lot. If it's on soft terrain, like around the tree in Pineshaw or Malleable earth, not so much. But they're saying they got a footprint, right? What can you do with that, Morse? Well, it's for, you know, potentially circumstantial because you have to arrest the assassin

with the shoes on that made the footprint and linked them to him. No, you know. You can find the shoes in his car, in his trunk, in his home, abandoned, anything. And once I get the shoes, out of a dumpster then i can get fingerprints or DNA off of it hello think man you're you're a hundred percent right which also waters down the uh evidentiary value of that but you're right they can find the sneaker in the house they can find it anywhere it doesn't have to be on his feet but what that's going to do as the police you know police are reactionary right um they are putting this together piece by piece and then they'll see how that fits in if potentially a prosecutor someone's alive if they arrest them, charge them to see how that fits in with regard to this.

But I think there's a bigger point here, which is this person was dressed in all black walking around a campus. I looked at the weather in Utah yesterday. You see most people are in T-shirts. It was in the low 80s, high 70s. It is beyond belief to me that a person, any human on that campus didn't notice this. This is so out of character for how people were dressed. on their campus.

This guy was not walking around campus getting a diet coke at the student union. This guy remained hidden and he snuck to the building, went straight to the top. For all I know, he was up there two days ago. I don't know how long he's been up there. He was not walking around with everybody else wearing a Hawaiian t-shirt. No, but he's walked through. He didn't just appear out of the sky. So I think that's, you know, to me.

Yes, he walked through, but I doubt he walked through dressed like a ninja. Well, it doesn't look like. from the photos that, you know, he's getting dressed up there. That's not normal. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. But the guy's dressed in all black. You're adding facts that don't make much sense, Nancy, in my opinion. You have won a lot of cases, and I'm wondering why right now. He did not walk around in my sustainability of body, dressed like a ninja with a face mask on. He snuck up there, or he's been up there for overnight, for all I know. But granted, yes, he stuck out like a sore thumb. Okay. And you just gave me another idea. He magically appeared. If he discarded that face mask, you know there's

hair in it, right? If I could just get part of that get-up he's wearing guys, in the last hours, a press release, a press release occurred. And we learned that investigators have other evidence as well. Everybody listen, they have not only a footwear impression footprint, but they also have a palm print. The evidence includes a palm print and a palm print and a four-arm imprint. Where did they get it? They did they get it off the roof? Um, Dan Murphy, how difficult is it to get fingerprints off the surface of a roof? And if this shooter did what Cole Lorimer says he did, he had a sniper's nest up there before the shooting. Did he wear gloves on those days? Did he go up there dressed as I said in a

Hawaiian t-shirt or a Utah t-shirt to blend in? I mean, that is a huge, huge source of information, of evidence, one hair, one fingerprint, anything. Dan, how do we do it? Yep, right now you have got tons to work on in this case. I have absolutely no doubt that this individual will be arrested and I think in the next 48 hours we'll see an arrest. This person, as slick as they think they are, they're not that slick. Everybody screws up.

If you left a forearm impression, it's because possibly up on the roof, it's a softer roof. Maybe there was a way because of the heat of the sun, it'll enable that. But if he left the palm print, that means he was not wearing gloves, provided it's his palm print. If he's not wearing gloves, that means he loaded the weapon without wearing gloves, which all leaves fingerprints on rounds, on magazines, on all of it. All of this is usable evidence. The hair, any DNA that may come off that is all usable evidence. This individual, probably from out of town, you're going to check hotels, you're going to check rental cars, you're going to check vehicle. parked in parking lots. You're going to check video. There's so many investigative avenues right

now. I don't give this person much chance to get out of this. They're going to get caught. I got something more for everybody to drink in. Earlier today, we learned that investigators say the perp arrived on campus 1152 AM. But that's just today. That does not negate Laura Moore's assertion that this sniper's nest had been staked out before and prepared before. But on the day of the shooting, he arrived at 1152 a.m. And get this, they have been able to track his movements on the campus through stairwells to a roof to the shooting location. So Dr. Chloe Carmichael joining us, a renowned psychologist and author, Dr. Chloe, this guy was lying in weight. He was lying in wait since 11.52 a.m. this morning. And he didn't just show up. He didn't

just fall off the turnip truck outside that building. He knew how to navigate the building's interior up to the roof. He has been tracked all the way up the stairwell into the building, up the stairwell, and to the roof. If he wasn't wearing gloves, if he touched that banister, if he touched anything, a doorknob without the gloves on? He's toast. Who plans something to this degree? And why? It's eerily similar. President Trump's assassination in Butler, Pennsylvania was from a rooftop just 133 yards away. This one was from a rooftop 200 yards away. I would like to understand, you know, why more isn't being done as far as security. The healthy function of anger is to stimulate boundary-setting behaviors. So why, when we're angry about these attacks,

why aren't we enforcing our boundaries? Why aren't we strengthening our boundaries? Oh my God. Go, run, run. Also tonight, we are learning that phrases were written on the gun, written on the rifle and the ammunition discovered in the woods. Very, very similar to phrases written on the ammunition in the Luigi Mangione assassination. Who goes to the trouble to write phrases related to cultural issues on the ammo? We are learning among the markings initials that law enforcement using in hopes of matching them with a suspect. Wow. Okay.

Catherine Schweite, you are the creator of the FBI's active shooter program. What does this mean? I think this is very typical of what we're seeing now with some of our most scary shooters is they're wanting to be famous, and this is the way they want to be famous. They don't even necessarily have to have a political bent or view. They just want to be famous, and they see that other people have done this on their weapons, not only United States but worldwide and on their magazines and their ammunition to make sure that everybody knows who they are and they identify on those weapons lots of things like

political but also cultural controversial things and they just want to have a voice and this is how they do it a voice after they disappear after they die if they commit suicide or they're killed What do you think about the video and what you learned on the FBI SAC presser? I think that I think what we have is, as you just heard, we're going to be, we're going to be going to be going probably to get this guy pretty quickly. I think that the one thing that struck me about the press conference this morning is that the SEC said, we have a good video from him getting up into getting to the building, 1152, getting up, getting on the building, getting jumping off the building. And clearly they had full video footage of him the whole ways, but I think that they must have a shot where they have a face. And the reason I say that is because he said, we will release the video if we can't use technology to identify who he is. And it could be that they're looking to try to do a palm print.

But I think the fact that he said that gives me the impression that we probably have possibly a hood down someplace, a face uncovered at some place. And otherwise, they're going to release it and have people. hope to identify them. And the reality is, Catherine Schweite, it doesn't have to be that day since we know he was wearing a face covering that day. That facial recognition video could be from another day when he was walking through campus and heading over there to go up those steps. Or it could be the day of the shooting before he put on the mask. There's any number of times he could have been caught on video facially. Exactly. They pulled this video footage. They find out the same. They pull the feed from shooting yesterday, they can pull the feed from the day before and see a guy

who doesn't have his face covered running a reconnaissance. So I'm thinking that's why they think they might be able to use technology to figure it out. Straight back out to Coa Lormore, former Army sniper sharpshooter. The type of weapon specifically is a 30-a-6 caliber, high-powered bolt action. It's a military rifle, very popular with hunters, several bullets, including a spent round found in the rifles. Chambers were recovered. Explain. So 30-0-6 is extremely common among hunters all across the United States,

especially in those Midwest states. And leaving the round, expended round in the chamber, is essentially smart because you don't want to leave anything on the target. You don't want to leave anything on his sniper hide site. What did you just say? You don't want to leave anything on a sniper hide site. on a sniper what? A sniper's nest, you were referring to.

You don't want to leave anything there. So how he left the palm print? Yeah, yeah, got you. The palm print could also, gosh, I don't think it's going to be on the weapon. I think the forearm. How would a forearm print get on the weapon? It looks like he's wearing long sleeves. Where would the forearm print be found?

Maybe from an earlier day when he was up there. How could you leave behind a forearm print, COA? The forearm print could be left behind either on the ground or on the based on how he's, looks like he's shooting laying down, which is the most stable shooting position for any long-range shooter. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Two special guests joining us now, Dr. Kendall Crowns, Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. He's a star of a hit-in-y podcast, Mayhem in the Morg.

And he has performed literally thousands and thousands of autopsies. For my purposes tonight, including gunshot wound autopsies. I wanted you to hear the type of ballistic and see the bullet type that Coaloramor just showed us. This couldn't have been instant instantaneous death, Dr. Kendall Crowns, because we know that Charlie Kirk grabbed, I think with his right arm grabbed his neck when he was shot. So he knew what was happening to him. Explain to us what happened.

So in the very graphic video of him being shot, You can see the wound coming into his neck right around where I'm indicating, and he tips backwards right after he's shot, and he brings his arms up. But actually, when he's bringing his arms up, he's exhibiting what we call decorticate posturing, which means his spinal cord has been severed from his brain, and it's no longer communicating with the rest of his body. So he was instantly rendered a quadriplegic. So that movement you see is actually. just a reflexive movement by his nervous system trying to figure out what's going on. Then you see him tipping to the side and blood start gushing out of his wound on his neck,

which to me means it's an artery that's hit more likely than not the carotid artery and the jugular vein. So he's hemorrhaging heavily out the side of his neck as he's falling to the ground. Now, this spinal cord being severed at this level could be below C5, C6, so he could still be breathing and still be alive for a period of time, which he was when he was rushed to the hospital and died. But the damage that was done was so severe. Even if he had survived, he probably would have had a stroke and he would have been a quadriplegic. Would you ever consider making a run for the presidency? He knew that was coming. I'm 31 years old.

I got a great life. And if they ever run out of people, I don't even know if I would consider it. You know why? People say, are you going to run for a senator or Congress? I'd say, listen, honestly, I think the impact we're making is bigger than sometimes some of the U.S. senators. I don't know if you guys agree or not. I do. But, again, I'm not trying to, you know, be braggadocious, but I can say what I want to say.

We have a very successful podcast. Who listens to the Charlie Kirk Show? Anybody? I mean, it's amazing. Wow. And our campus tours are sweeping the country, billions of views. I got over 1,000 employees. I'm the most blessed.

I have to pinch myself when I wake up every single day that I get to be able to do this as my job. And so I never want to lose that. I always just want the highest and greatest impact. From Charlie Kirk Insta. At this hour, the manhunt is on for the lone shooter, the assassin that gunned down 31-year-old churned. And there's a lot of evidence. We have what we believe to be the murder weapon. We have ammo with inscriptions written on it and or the murder weapon.

Prayers and thoughts. Two and four. Charlie Kirk's Widow and two children. Listen. I happen to be watching Charlie. to be watching Charlie. I can't say I saw blood. I can't say I saw him get shot, but as soon as that shot went out, he fell back into his left and everybody hit the deck. Charlie Kirk is back on the road manning his prove me wrong table at college campuses around the country. This fall,

Kirk is calling his scheduled appearances the American comeback tour. The proof me wrong debates have grown from simple conversations with a few students. over a folding table to ticketed events students and locals turn out to in the thousands. Kirk's first stop this year is at Utah Valley University in Orham, Utah. That first time from our friends at Fox News at this hour, The Manhunt goes on for the assassin that gunned down Charlie Kirk. Don't you know that every cam is being processed? Red light cams, doorbell cams, ring cams, surveillance videos. at the campus and beyond cameras at firing ranges where we believe the

perp practiced this as the latest developments are that the weapon and ammo have been found which should give us a clue as to who is the shooter what about security I mean I know that's woulda coulda or shoulda at this point but practically no security at the scene for Charlie Kerr Also, he's at the bottom of a fishbowl, much like the Mandalay shooter. He's completely vulnerable from a shooter at an elevated sniper's den. Listen. Charlie has some security in front of him, but you got the sense that the shot came kind of straight at him.

And I don't think there would be many vantage points too far away because he was under an on-ing. was under an awning. Students and Orham locals who attended Kirk's American comeback tour say there was little security and no bag checks or metal detectors at the event. The debate between students and Kirk was a ticketed event, but students said on arrival campus staff was not checking them in and anyone was allowed to come and go as they pleased. That first time from our friends at Fox & Friends by Dakota Loramore, there's no way that security directly in front of Charlie could have protected him from a sniper at an elevated angle. No, there's no way that they could have prevented this with security just standing right in front of him.

They would have to have security a couple hundred meters out on all the buildings and the surrounding areas. It was just a bad combination. I'd like to see the bullet that you were showing us again. Imagine that, tearing through. 31-year-old Charlie Kirk's throat Leaving behind A widow A young widow

And two infant children To Dan Murphy joining us Former NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force And so much more Star of Gold Shields podcast Dan The evidence is piling up

But this guy could still outsmart Everybody Nancy, I don't think he's going to outsmart anybody. I think he's left a trail of evidence because he is the typical criminal in many ways who does that. He's acting out of emotion. This is a well-planned event, but I don't care how well you plan it. The typical person is going to screw up. They've left a trail.

They will be found. I have 100% confidence and arrest and the right person will be caught quickly. The investigation is ongoing. But I want to make it. crystal clear right now to whoever did this, we will find you. If you know or think you know anything about the identity of the assassin that took the life of 31 year old dad, Charlie Kirk, please don't try and protect someone out of a false sense of loyalty. Don't believe that what you know is insignificant or means nothing. It could very well be the one.

clue that cracks the murder case. Tip line 801 579, 1400. Repeat 801-579-1400. Tips. dot FBI.gov. And of course, the timing of the shooting is so heartbreaking as well. tonight we remember the thousands who lost their lives September 11th I was there that day and will never forget the pain the wake of pain left behind on September 11th we honor those the emergency workers, the military, police, volunteers, those people who put themselves

in harm's way to save others and for our freedom. And to the assassin, if you believe your bullet stopped us and anyone from speaking out, You are very wrong.

You have only empowered us. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an IHeart podcast.