Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CHARLIE KIRK DEAD AT 31: SUSPECT PHOTO RELEASED, WEAPON FOUND - THE FORENSICS

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Late breaking news out of the investigation into the shooting death of Charlie Kirk. The FBI has released surveillance photos of the suspect, dressed in black.  Agents are asking for the public's help in identifying the man.  They also released information about the weapon that was found in the woods along with ammunition and a spent round in the chamber.  Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics - Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic,  joins Nancy Grace for a forensics discussion about the evidence so far. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charlie Kirk, dead at just 31 years old. At this hour, a massive manhunt for the assassin who gunned down a loving father of two, a husband. This after two arrests, many call them botched, I don't. At this hour, law enforcement has released a facial photo of the shooter. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

I want to thank you for being with us. Charlie Kirk has been shot at Utah University. All witnesses are reporting that. All they heard was a single shot that was fired. He's a young man. Charlie Kirk was shot at a rally. In the last hours, law enforcement has released a facial shot of the perp. We can learn a lot.

There he is walking. We've also got a shot more head-on going up the stairwell. He is wearing jeans, a baseball cap, black in color. He's wearing tennis shoes, and we know he's. He is left behind a foot impression. By the time we see him, he looks as if he is cloud all in black, but this is him making his way up the steps. What can we learn?

We already knew that it was released. He was college-aged. Here he is. Clean-shaven college-age. Man, do you really think your sunglasses are going to trick, L.E., the feds, the locals, the works? good luck and a couple of days they're going to know where you bought those sunglasses and what you signed on the credit card slip what can we learn about this guy white male college age slight in build joining me right now forensics expert and professor of forensics

jacksville state university jose scott morgan joe scott i can glean a lot let's see the picture again i want everybody to see this there is currently a $100,000 reward on this guy this guy. Okay, Joe Scott, it looks like he drove away from mommy and daddy's house in the suburbs and he decided to shoot somebody dead. Does he actually have his wallet in his front right pocket? I see a mark on his jeans that tells me that's how he usually carries it. In a moment, I'm going to figure out what kind of tennis shoes he's wearing, but you see the American fly with a gun on it? I'm learning so much right now. Okay, what do you see, Joe Scott? Well, I see that he has un-gloved hands, Nancy, and it looks like in the other shot, it looks like he may be making

an effort to grab hold of that rail. Guess what? If you do that. With his forearm, though, look, look, look. Well, yeah, but how do we know, how do we know that he didn't touch any of those surfaces along the way? LaCard's principle, every contact leaves a trace. You cannot be this perfect. All right. So up there, there is going to be information that will tie him back. I think biological information. We already have evidence that there may, in fact, have been a palm print left behind. You had mentioned a footprint. And also, if the reports are true, and we're hearing about this weapon that may have been recovered,

this is going to be a specific tieback to him, Nancy, just based upon the process of purchasing one, serial number that's on here, any kind of add-ons that may be found on this weapon. I'm thinking like scopes. and oh boy the ammunition we've got from what they are saying we have a spent round that's still chambered because this weapon is a bolt action that means you have to actuate the bolt itself lift it up pull it back that ejects it this is not a semi-automatic weapon and then you force another round in nancy he never ejected the round according to what fbi sources are saying and there are still three other live rounds

in the internal magazine of this weapon. And all of them are going to have little bits that are going to be offered up relative to connectivity back to this person potentially. I got to circle back to you on all the ballistics because I've got

a lot to ask you specifically about serial numbers on guns unless they've been scratched off like we saw in Sean Combs' case. A scope is an add-on that you have to buy. You can buy it online. You can at a gun shop. Someone like this guy, I bet he bought it at a gun shop.

I bet he went into a gun store and browsed and browsed and browsed. I can't wait to see his smiling face on the surveillance video at a gun shop. Because you know, it's just like a Vegas casino and a gun shop. It is saturated with surveillance. But I want to go back to this picture. What can I learn? Guys, for those of you just joining us, there is a $100,000 reward from the FBI. Tip line, 1-800 call FBI, 1-800-2-25-5224.

You may think what you know is not significant. You may think it doesn't matter. It does. You can also go to tips.fbi.gov. Another number, 801-579-14-100. repeat, 801-579, 1400, toll-free, 800, call FBI 2255-224. The man-hunt is on for Charlie's killer. Now, before I get into ballistics, back to the photo.

Read the photo. These photos just released this afternoon. What does that tell me they couldn't get a facial recognition ID? What is facial recognition? Joe Scott Morgan. How is it used? Well, it's part of biometrics, biometrics. So let's just say, for instance, you look into the lens of a camera, a CCTV camera. It can actually capture your image. They can feed it into a program that will put these specific points of identification on your face. You can come back with an actual identification of an individual. Also, perhaps an AI rendering that is going to more closely resemble anything that you might have with this kind of grainy image.

And you can project that out there. Biometrics are also used so that you can access secure locations. You know, people use the eyes. Some people use facial recognition. Heck, Nancy, we use these on our phones if it's set up like this. So this is called biometrics. It's something that we use in forensics. You're right you are because apparently they could not get a read on this guy

relative to any kind of enhancement they could have done. But this is still very early. Hold on. Hold on. I was mocking him thinking he could fool us with a baseball cap and a pair of sunglasses from Dollar Tree, but it did stop facial recognition. What's facial recognition? Simply put, when you want to use your phone, you hold the phone up like that.

and it opens your phone. The phone knows it's you. It's not just 007, okay, or Jason Bourne. Now, law enforcement, in many, many cases, can see your face, put, plug it into a computer, and they will give your DOB, your name and your LCA, last known address. Yes, it's real facial recognition, okay? If you don't like it, move to another country. but they couldn't get facial wreck from him.

I think just because he wore a hat and the glasses, that was enough to throw it off, Joe Scott. Yeah, it might skew it. Might skew the program's ability to pick up on those little nuances there. But, Nancy, I've got to tell you, these images, look, you and I've covered a lot of cases where we have blurred images. Sister, this is not blurred. Somebody's going to know this guy.

Dollars to donuts. We're going to know who this guy is. he's got this kind of angular jaw clean-shaven he's thin he's not like a big robust person at all somebody's going to know who he is nancy i got to tell you one more thing that's kind of intriguing me about this if if what we're hearing is accurate nancy he had scoped this area out he he was familiar with how to get look i work at a university all right i can't get access to roofs you know i don't know how to and trust me i wouldn't necessarily want to this guy knew how to access a roof allegedly because they're talking about he had a static location they're

estimating maybe 200 yards away and one more thing if we could go back to that still is that still image if this is if this is him progressing up the staircase to get to what people would refer to as a sniper's nest. Where's the weapon? Well, my question would be next. Did he already broken down behind him or up there already? And did he have it up there already? Had he cited, this is chilling, had he already presided, because where Charlie was sitting, Nancy, is down in like an amphitheater. So he's in a perfect shooting location. It's from above to below and it's straight on. If we are to believe this. And it's, you have to account for something that's called bullet drop when you're firing at a distance we're talking about 200 yards

so gravity the natural pull of gravity relative to that round going down range it's not going to drop a lot but it still will nancy he scored a shot in the neck uh at that distance and it was instantaneous i think that that god rest his soul i think charlie was probably deceased by the time he hit the ground some of the things that I saw relative to the lifting of the hands. He was having a neuromuscular response in that instance. And, of course, this copious amount of blood. Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. Now, hold on.

You're saying it was a neuromuscular response. Yeah, yeah. And he took his right hand and put it up to his neck. Yeah, it's kind of raised like this where you're clutching the phone. I thought he did that intentionally that he knew what had happened, but you're saying it was just a muscular response. Let me, hey, let me give you a good example. If you ever watch football, which I watch a lot, if you ever see one of the players on the field take a shot to the head or to the neck, you will see them kind of clinch their thumbs like this and they'll lay down on the ground. And many times that's an indication that you've got, you know, you've had your bell rung.

Well, if you think about this and you think about this round, think about where it went in, Nancy, it's to the left of the midline in the neck. If it's traversing like this, it's probably going to clip spinal cord. And in that region, this is merely speculative on my part, but in that reason, in that region, C4 and above, C4, C3, C2, C1, Nancy, those are unsurvivable injuries if that cord is damaged right there. So you're fighting two things. You're fighting blood loss and you're fighting clipping of, you know, probably the spinal cord itself. That actually, that level controls whether or not your diaphragm is going to operate. C-5, I think Kendall Crowns made this point. C-5 below, you're talking about maybe being a paraplegic.

But at that height, where this round entered, I think that this was an unsurvivable wound. We are also learning at this hour, L.A. law enforcement contacting people throughout the radius around the shooting site to determine if they have doorbell cams, any kind of cam. Now, interesting, Joe Scott, you brought up that you work at a huge campus. Don't you know that the red lights, they've got to have cams on them for student safety. That place is drenched with cams. Don't you know it? Oh, yeah, I know it. I can walk out the door. I'm here at the university right now. I can walk out the door onto campus, and immediately I'm staring. I've got, I'm being visualized by at least three external cameras, not to mention anything that's in dwelling in the ceiling. And it all comes back to student safety. This is probably just from the perspective of not, if you're not wanting to get caught, this is the worst possible place you could go because out of every location around this area, I would imagine this thing is. more intensely viewed than any other location in this little town.

And there are camera angles all over the place. So that, if he parked a vehicle, if he drove through, you know, any kind of lights, if he went past stores, if he went past churches, remember we, remember we were going through this with Coburger, Nancy, remember the ring that they were trying to, and that's very isolated out there where he was going, this is not. This is actually happening on a campus right here. It's not off-campus housing. Real quick. Oh, go back to that picture. I want to show Joe Scott something.

I've been to this area. And from where the shooting occurred in 10 minutes, 12 minutes max, you're in the mountains. I wonder if he's pulling an Eric Rudolph. Or is he just going to try to blend in and go back home like nothing happened, try to establish an alibi. But look, seriously, 10 minutes, you're in the wild. And that, hey, you're, you're. Here's an indicator, Joe Scott. The gun was found, the bolt action gun, was found in the woods. Is that the trail he wants us to think he's taken? Yeah. And FBI has stated, at least in some of their release statements, they have stated that

they believe that this was his area of Exville, where he is trying to leave the area. And so he drops the weapon right there, which, you know, look, if this weapon that he's carrying, If it is a weapon, I'm thinking it is, is a Mouser. It's a Mouser, it's a Mouser, 30-aut-6. It's merely a 30-caliber. When you hear 30-ought-6, Ought-6 means that this round was actually developed in 1906. It's actually the same round that we used in World War I and World War II. This is a lethal round meant to take out personnel with.

People hunt with it now, deer, elk, even bear. It's a robust round, Nancy. and you know what would be the purpose of dropping the weapon behind I think you make a good point here when you say is this what he is wanting people to believe one other thing here Nancy this guy appears very confident what he is doing I really wonder if he has help I really wonder if there are other people they're kind of guiding him along how did he get away yeah what about this Joe Scott if a dog can pick up a cent around that gun or in the sniper's nest? Did the scent head back to say a parking lot or a roadside where someone could have picked him up? Let's think this through. Is he a lone wolf or did he have some like-minded buddies or buddy helping him say a getaway car?

Right now we already know as of tonight about 150 tips have been called in already. So, has anybody recognized him? This voter's only been out a few hours. Right. Yeah. And that shirt with whatever this design. What about the dog idea? Well, yeah, going back to the dog idea, they would have had, I think that they probably

would have had to have hopped on this really quick because this is a highly trafficked area, Nancy, around the campus itself. Now, off campus, a little bit different. What about the gun? What about around the gun? Yeah, around the gun. you could and again we don't know exactly they're just merely saying a an adjacent wooded area well you know i don't know how trafficked that area is it would be very it would be wise on their part

i hope that they locked that whole area down if they could get a dog in there and pick up on a scent relative to this and did he leave anything behind on that roof you know if he and again we don't have video of him like leaving that's going to be important because that would mean that the weapon would be in his hand as he's leaving. This Mouser platform, if it's the one I'm thinking about, some of these you can pick up really cheap. It's got a wooden stock. They're not easy to break down.

If we're talking to one that's, and a lot of these things are for sale out there, you can buy them pretty readily. And their serpent, Nancy, is like 1950. Just, you know, kind of wrap your mind around that. And there's tons of these things out there. This old bolt action platforms, because a lot of guys, they're inexpensive, and you can hunt big game with them.

So you can walk into a gun show. Hey, what about this, Joe, Scott? This will give you a window into this guy's mind. It's an echo of Luigi Mangione's murder of the health care boss. Listen to this. Now, this is from the ATF. They are badass, okay, technical legal term. They found the ammunition recovered with a wrong.

rifle used to kill Charlie is engraved with statements expressing transgender and anti-fascist ideology. Well, I don't know. Is that real? Or did the Sheeter do that to throw L.E. law enforcement off the track? I mean, this guy took the time to write on the ammo? Yeah, I'm glad that he did.

And this is why. First off, it gives us a little insight if it is his into the way his brain works, but also from a forensic standpoint, Nancy, question documents here. If, in fact, he wrote on these, and these aren't stickers or something that was generated, he actually wrote on it, we've got a physical, another element of physical information that we can tie back to him just merely based on his writing. You know, if we can get samples of the suspect in his writing, there's a high probability it's going to marry up. Wait a minute, wait a minute. I got to disagree with you on that. I disagree on that, and I'll tell you why.

If he were writing on a piece of paper, sure. But when you're scratching something onto a bullet, that's hardly your mode of writing. It's probably not. But just imagine if they presented him with a similar species. spent bit of ammunition and said, give us an example of your writing on here using this instrument. It can be paired up. I've seen it done. And so that's, you know, that's, again, that's a possibility. Anytime you touch something, put your hand to it, you leave something specific about yourself behind. If he was so foolish to do this and leave this weapon behind, that's going to be another tieback. This is just helping prosecutors build a case here. Every little element along the way is going to help once they get their hands on this guy. If he's not dead

and they get their hands on him, there is a mountain of evidence that's going to be presented. Well, yeah, I was just going to ask you that because we know they've got a foot impression, but this is my question about the forearm impression, this, this. How would you get that? Because he's going up the steps, he's got on a shirt, a long sleeve shirt. Is that covering up a tattoo? to, I don't know. Yeah, maybe it is. And that's not going to show up in CODIS. Forearms are not in CODIS, so they have to get him.

And then with a warrant, do a forearm comparison. Yeah, I don't know that I've never heard of people doing a forearm comparison. However, I will say this. Me either. If this is, in fact, some kind of latent smudge that appears, let me put this in legal terms, appears consistent with a forearm, what you can heart. out of that is certainly DNA. If he's sweaty, if he's oily, anything left behind on that non-forest surface, like if you look at the stairwell, particularly, if he pulled his sleeve up,

and we don't know what the location of this imprint is either. Nancy, if he was laying up on that roof and he had his sleeves up, remember, you know, if he gets uncomfortable, he's in direct sunlight up there. He's trying to make himself as comfortable as he possibly can be as he's siding in the target, who is Charlie Kirk, by the way. Is he

readjusting his arms? Did he leave something on a surface up there where they were able to recover this, where they would go up in dust? Or maybe they just obliquely lighted this and they saw this kind of oily area where he had kind of touched that surface. I don't know.

From a forensic standpoint, There's a lot of data here. I'm going to be fascinated here how this kind of all broke out for the team that went out there to recover all of this. I have one answer for you, and it's significant. We're talking about the wooded area. It's not, like many people, have been supposing all evening, that it's like up in the woods on that mountainous terrain. It's a wooded area just off campus. For all I know, it could be more like a park.

For instance, campus ends, and then on the other side of the street, there are trees. But it's not rough terrain like up in those mountains. But again, his getaway was so easy. He could be at the airport in less than 20 minutes. He could be up in the mountains like Eric Rudolph did and led police on a wild goose chase. That was the Olympic bomber. He could go anywhere. But I'm just looking at him.

He looks between 18 and 25, white male, put his picture up again, please. Yeah, I'm glad you showed that map. It shows a lot of tree green area. Look at what he's wearing. That t-shirt is going to be traced in a heartbeat. People are always saying, hey, where did you get that t-shirt to me? So we're going to find that t-shirt and where it's sold. This is, again, a white male, I would say between 18 and,

what do you think? 26? Yeah, yeah, I'd say in that age, yeah. Yep, and he's clean shaving. And wearing that outfit with those jeans. I wish I could zoom in on the shoes to determine they almost look in here like Connors.

I wish we could zoom in on the hat because it looks like there's something center mass on the front of that hat as well. I think that probably the FBI has that ability to do that super enhance that. Is that, am I just misreading that or does that look like some kind of emblem? No, I can't make it out either.

And I've been trying, but they will. They'll have that in no time. Come on, please. NASA, step in. Do your magic. Okay, another question regarding forearm. Of course, there's no CODIS match. You don't take Perp's forearm print or their footprint.

You take their fingerprint. But what you said, if they've got a forearm print, The attempts were in the 80s, about 82 at noon. He was sweating. If they could see the print and get the print, there's touch DNA, explain. And once they get him, much like Brian Koberger, they will then match that to him. It's happening. Explain.

Yeah. Yeah, it is happening. And I submit to you, Nancy, yeah, you could get touch DNA, which, of course, is a sloughing, dead skin. dead skin cells that we, you know, that we leave behind every single day. Juergens has made millions of dollars off of us for this reason, for dry skin. We lose skin cells all the time. However, if this is a transfer that is oil or sweat, you're not going to have partial DNA. You'll have a strand in there that's far more robust.

Remember, touch DNA is degraded DNA. You've only got like a partial there. If this is some kind of bodily fluid that he left behind, sweat or oil, that's going to be a much more rich source. I'm just, it's such an unusual statement by them to say that they have a forearm print. I'd really like to know, first off, what kind of surface was it on? How did they spot this? What areas were they dusting to come up with this? All of this is very intriguing.

And if he's up there kind of lording on that roof for a protracted period of time, the longer he's there, there's a higher probability you'll have multiple secretions, multiple surfaces that he could have touched, just even adjusting himself with his hands. And I don't, at this time, I don't know what that surface is like up there. Is it kind of gravel covered? Because in a lot of these government buildings like this, you'll see like tar paper laid down, there'll be a gravel covering on. of it. Did he have a shooter's pad? I've been wondering where they got the foot imprint. Hey, I've got something else for you. We know that L.E. contacting people with door cams, but we've also learned in the last hours that law enforcement believes that they can trace him fleeing into a neighborhood, not up into the woods, not up into the mountains, not toward the airport

that we know of yet, but into a neighborhood. And they say fleeing, fleeing into a neighborhood. And many people have interpreted that to mean on foot. And they are asking for all the door cams from that neighborhood and adjoining neighborhoods. Look, this is what I always say when somebody skips bond, go to mommy's house. Look under the bed. People go, they're familiar. Okay? Easy example. Scott Peterson. He's a fisherman. He had fished San Francisco Bay a million times, knew how to get to the marina. So where does he go? Not a leap of logic, straight back to where he's fished before. This guy went into a neighborhood that he knew. At the very least, had cased as a getaway route. That tells me a lot. College age,

white male. Here he is. What do you think about the doorbell cams? Did he change clothes as he was running? Is there any time he took off that hat and those sunglasses? Because if so, it's over, Joe Scott. Yeah. What if he, you know, along the way, he's peeling clothes off and he's dumping them in the sewer drains. You know, that's certainly a possibility. I've wore cases. Nancy, I know you've seen these come across your desk over the years where you've got people that layer their clothing. We used to have this a lot in drug culture where we would have a shooting, almost an assassination, and the person would walk up, shoot somebody, and they'd have like three layers of clothing

on, and they'd just start peeling t-shirts off, pants off, they've got mold. And so when you put out a script for them and you're looking for them with a bolo, they're not going to appear to be in the same, they're not going to have the same clothing on as when the crime was perpetrated. Did he think that far ahead? Also, this goes back to my earlier supposition that the person that pulled this off knew this area like the back of their hand.

They were familiar with that rooftop. They were familiar with, and marked this term down, line of sight as it applies to this assassination. You would have to know you have a clear firing lane through that. And, you know, Nancy, if you, that shot right there, if you could just take a look at that. I don't know if y'all can freeze that or not.

But when you look from the position of firing, Nancy, he fires, just keep it. Look at that window right there. See the people in the front forward to where Charlie's sitting. He has to put that round between the tops of their heads and that border of where it says, prove me wrong on that tent. He's got a very small window at a two. hundred yard range and he's, you know, Charlie is seen being shot in the neck from that distance. That's full on accuracy. That gives you an indication that he's very comfortable with this area because

I can't, and he didn't practice you, okay? This is not like he fired one shot and then, you know, he fired another shot. No, this is a single round being popped off at that moment in time. In my opinion, this guy is probably practiced at what he's doing. I'm not saying his a pro. He's familiar with this weapon system that he's using, which is kind of clunky. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Question. With a bolt to action, can you break it down? Can you, okay, here's a point of reference. For those of you that haven't had to deal with firearms, guns can be broken down, broken down into, say, two or three pieces. So if you know how to do it,

you can break the gun down and put it back together again. You've seen it on Jason Bourne. You've seen it on 0.07. Can you break down a Mouser, Oat-6? Yeah, it all depends on what generation. Yeah, it all depends on what the generation is. Most of the Mousers that you see floating around out there, I see them, have a wooden stock. It requires a specific set of tools, primarily a flathead screwdriver if you're looking at the older models. And it takes time to kind of break these things down. We haven't heard the full statement from LEO at this point in time as to the status of the weapon. We just know that they're saying we recovered a weapon.

We don't know what the status of the weapon was. was it broken down the question is was it broken down in order to get it to the roof and then assembled reassembled on the roof and then he's ready to go to work at that point in time takes the thing away intact not broken down is it wrapped in something that would not draw attention but nancy this this weapon is kind of robust that's why it it's not like taking a modern weapon like some of these M4 platforms, you know, did he, in fact, those are easier broken down, dependent upon the platform? This thing, a Mouser, is not easy to break down.

So how did he get up there without being seen? How do you get off there? Without being seen, he's got to take the weapon away and deposit it somewhere in this park-like wooded area adjacent to camp. Okay, you can break down a Mouser, but the people, pieces are still really big. What I'm getting at is, could he have had the gun broken down in the backpack? Could he have had it broken down the backpack? I suppose he would, he could have. I'd have to know the size of the backpack relative to accommodating both the barrel itself,

which would have been semi-detached and probably the stock. It's generally, the way it breaks down is you can drop the barrel off and you drop what's referred to as a lower receiver off, which is like the wooden stock, those two things and two elements like that. There are more complex systems where you can take the butt of the weapon off. I've never seen that in a Mouser. It probably exists. There's so many different platforms out there. But in my experience with a Mouser, if you're going to break it down, two big elements

remain, and they're still going to draw attention. And that's the last thing that somebody's wearing sunglasses and dark clothing and a hat wants to draw attention. You know, why, and that brings us back to this other idea. If, you know, he's taking these, he's trying to conceal his identity here. You know, he wants to get away. Right. He wants to survive all this.

There is video, Joe Scott, of him, of Charlie being carried. People are running with his body to take it. to the ER. I think death would likely have been instantaneous. But that said, at this hour, he is being autopsied. What will that entail? Well, geez, I'll go and say it. It will be a full autopsy. This is not going to be some kind of partial autopsy, which some agencies actually do. I never can figure that out. This will be a full autopsy. There will be, an extensive dissection of the neck, the organs of the neck, and as well as the cervical vertebra, and any other affected locations.

And if I'm to believe my eyes and what I'm seeing from the videography from the event, and I've had to watch it more times than I would have preferred, this is going to be a single injury. They're going to try to track this wound to see where it goes. I'm also interested forensically, Nancy, did the round actually exit? Do we have an entrance, which I believe is on the anterior, the front of the neck, to the left of the midline? If you'll just find your trachea, move over to the left, that's where it looks like the round actually entered. Then did it exit through the back of the neck through one of the vertebral processes back there?

I'm kind of inclined to think that it might have, and it probably... I mean, certainly they've recovered the bullet, don't you think, Joe Scott? Well, it all depends on how well they lock down that platform up there, Nancy. And this is always a problem, particularly when you have a big crowd. Things get kicked around in a panic. This happened in a twinkling of an eye. Did somebody step? If the round did exit and it wound it up on the backside of this structure where he's sitting,

if someone has stomped on it, grounded into the dirt. Now, they're going to sweep this area with metal. Detectors. Metal detectors. And that is if there was an exit wound, there may not have been an exit wound. Yeah, that's a big qualifier. If there was, yeah. It may be lodged, may have been lodged in his neck.

That said, the autopsy taking place right now. And we also know that it's hard to even say these words that Charlie Kirk's body is being flown on Air Force 2. from the medical examiner's office to Arizona, the state where he lived. How long typically would an autopsy take, Joe Scott? From beginning to end, they're going to start this examination with x-rays. You have to have them. Because if this round broke apart, there'll be little satellite fragments that you'll be able to pick up on x-ray. You want to gather all of those because every element of that projectile, Nancy,

is essential to ballistic examination, all right? And you want to have something that's going to tie back to the murder weapon itself. They're going to do extensive external examination. That's going to include gathering clothing for evidence, looking for anything on there. You might think, oh, they don't need it. Yeah, you do. You have to do it completely. And then they'll get into the actual prosection, and it will be extensive.

It will be time consuming. As a matter of fact, if I were a bet, and man. First off, Utah has got a state medical examiner's office. They're one of the original state medical examiner offices in the country. All we have to do is think back to the horrible case of Tammy Daybell. That's where she wound up, and they are very, very good. Trust me. They're going to do a very involved autopsy. I would imagine there'll probably be more than one forensic pathologist that's present to view this, not to mention there will be. representatives from the local PD as well, from the feds as well.

There's going to be a lot of eyes on this case. Right now, we know that these images have been released. It's going to be very difficult for me to believe that nobody has seen this t-shirt before, the American flag, with a gun over it. Look at him. If you know or think you know anything about the, man, the assassin that murdered Charlie Kirk. Please dial 801-579-1400. Tips.fbi.gov. 800 number 800, call FBI. 800-225-224. We wait as justice unfolds and to the killer. You're not that smart. You can run, man.

but you can't hide. We're on to you. Goodbye, friends. This is an I-Heart podcast.