Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Chase Massner found: What's up with Brad?

Episode Date: August 3, 2017

As the medical examiner searches for clues in the death of Chase Massner, Georgia investigators build a case to make an arrest. Nancy Grace gathers "Team Chase" to discuss their 3-year-long search for justice for the Iraqi war vet and his family in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. at a quicksand in Cobb town. His family says he was last seen at a friend's house in Kennesaw three years ago. It's like he vanished from that home, not to be seen or heard from again. Despite some intense searching, few clues have been found. We have absolutely no answers at all, not even the slightest clue in three years. Police are trying to determine if remains found in a backyard

are those of an Army veteran who has been missing out for three years. This is the home where three years ago, 26-year-old Chase Massner was last seen. Everyone looked and looked and looked. Nothing made any sense. This guy, handsome, young, beautiful wife, two gorgeous little girls, just babies. A war hero comes home from Iraq only to go missing on American soil. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We have spent months, some people years, trying to find Chase Masner. And in the last hours, we do just that. Chase's body has been discovered.

And this is no accident. There is no doubt about it. Buried, wrapped in a tarp, under a patio, covered with a slab of cement. But why? Why? Why is his wife widowed and his two little girls now left to grow up without a father? We are now searching for answers, and we want justice. Joining me is an all-star crew. Ross Warnes, Kim Harris, Michael Swagger, Lee Egan, Daniel Wilkerson, Alan Duke, all in a search for justice. Straight out to you, Daniel Wilkerson, Channel 46 on the story from the beginning. What did we find out overnight?

Well, apparently it was going to take three days for the Department of Defense to get Chase's dental records here to the medical examiner's office. And so the medical examiner's office called Chase's wife, Amanda, and I guess Amanda in turn called Chase's mother, Stephanie Kadena. And Stephanie, I was here yesterday when Stephanie, the mother, brought to the medical examiner's office teeth, his baby teeth, Chase's baby teeth, hair from when he was a little boy, along with dental records from when he was 11 years old. And I walked her up to the door. She went inside. She was in there for about 10 minutes. When she came out, she came back out with the baby teeth and the hair. She said that the medical examiner said that they thought they could make an ID with his medical records, with his dental records from when he was 11 years old, but they told her to hold on to the other items.

And as you know, Nancy, this mother, Stephanie Kadena, just kept everything from when he was a little boy. This is her only child, and he just kept everything. Yeah, Daniel, I was just talking with you and Jackie here in the studio about the day that we went to go meet with his mother, Stephanie. And when I got there in the home, all laid out on the dining room table were all the photo albums of him as a little boy and growing up. And she held onto those photo albums as if they were Chase. And what a mixed up, crazy, horrible, horrible time. I mean, Chase had come home from Iraq and tried to assimilate into civilian life. It did not go well.

He couldn't find a job, couldn't find a job, couldn't find a job. Then he got a job at the qt the quick trip and there was a little subculture there like you know everywhere you work when i was at uh hlm it was a subculture when i was at the sandwich shop for pete's sake in law school there was you know the group of people that worked there and they all got to be friends and that is where we got a lot of information but he and Amanda fighting a lot arguing about money a lot with a brand new baby another baby they had you know moved out on their own I remember her his mom holding onto that photo album and Daniel do you remember her going over and over and over every detail?

That he had come home to spend the night because he and Amanda were arguing. That she called him. He went and got in the car. They started arguing immediately in the car. And I don't believe she ever saw him again. That was it. He suddenly, no more texts. Nothing.

I mean, you know when something's wrong i don't care what police say when your son or your spouse or your daughter texts you every day and then multiple times and then all of a sudden bam and that's it you can't find them or their cell phone you know daniel it's something's wrong yes and we even heard the voice uh mails that she had left for Chase, I guess that would be the 27th. She thought maybe Chase was just sleeping. And you can hear the first voicemail. She is just a touch concerned. But boy, I tell you, when you get to the second or third voicemail, she's in pain. She is very, very concerned. Let's go straight to Ross Warnes. Ross, thank you so much for being with us. I want to hear your take on what's happening right now as we wait for an official cause of death. Well, it's not something easy to deal with.

Right now, the hardest thing is being there for the family. Amanda, her kids, and Stephanie and her family. There's a lot of rumors going around, a lot of pointing the fingers, and that's not helping anybody. That's something that just needs to stop. We've got to let people grieve in their own way and just take it one step at a time. Tell me your thoughts. As you hear all of this unfolding, what can you tell us about Chase Masner and the way his body has been found? I don't even know how to explain when I found out.

I mean, a lot of to explain when I found out. I mean, we've all, a lot of us all had suspicions. We can say it was there since day one, but now that it was actually there, it's just, it's just, it's unbelievable. It's nothing anybody ever wanted to hear. You know, it's different when something is assumption. Cole, it's amazing how this was right under the noses. No offense, because, you know, I was part of the system. Right under the noses of the cops. I don't get it. If it had not been for, who do you think, Alan?

Team Chase, number one, who has been working on this since he goes missing. His mom, of course. Us, Crime Online, have been on it. course uh us crime online have been on it daniel of course has been on it daniel wilkerson who else would you say has been pushing this the most there's no there's no question the cobb county cold case unit which is a group of retired detectives is the most incredible group of cold case detectives I've ever met or talked to. Vic Reynolds, the DA in Cobb County, formed them, and they took over the case not long after you interviewed Brad, that famous interview that you did with Brad. They got that. They heard it.

They heard things. They took the case. And within weeks, they were hot on the trail. And of course, the resolution came. But of course, it's Team Chase, which is a pretty incredible example of these citizen detectives and friends, along with the cold case unit. Well, the thing about Team Chase, and when I say Team Chase, everybody, first of all, I want to thank you who are listening. Because your tips, your thoughts, your observations, your comments, you called in and wrote in. It kind of spurred everybody on. It kept everybody going. And it's a shame, really, that it takes us and Team Chase and Michael Swagger

and citizens to bring the attention to the cops. But before I come down on the cops, I remember, everybody, before you jump in on the bandwagon on the cops, I remember I would be in court one week, two week, three week, so busy I couldn't even go into my office. So finally, I would go over to my office on the other side of the courthouse after the end of the trial, I'd get a verdict.

I'd drag my trial files back in on a cart, go over to my office on the other side of the courthouse. After the end of the trial, I get a verdict. I drag my trial files back in on a cart, pull them behind me, and there would be maybe 150, 200 brand-new files sitting on my desk. I remember walking in, and this huge stack had fallen over, and they were all over the desk and all over the floor, and indictments just kept putting them on top of them so before we come down on police about why didn't they find this which is what I'm about to do just remember they're getting how many new files a day I was just one prosecutor and my off my everything was covered with new files when I had been gone for two weeks on trial. So I can only imagine what they're getting.

Now that I've said that, Daniel, come on. Don't be so worried about burning up your sources. Let's just tell the truth. It was in the freaking backyard, for Pete's sake. The backyard. True. Under a slab of cement and a patio. But I'm

saying it. I said it. It was in the backyard. What do I have to hit him on the top of the head with a brick? Well, I tell you, in the past, I've had a pretty good relationship with Cobb County Police Department here. I will say on this case,

I've gotten little to no information. And it's strictly on this case. Why that is, I do not know. I will say. Maybe because they didn't know anything to tell you. I will say Detective Chris Twiggs, he was the main investigator, but he got this case, as I understand it, later. I've heard that he is a very good investigator, but I think there were some crucial hours, crucial days, maybe even weeks that were lost in the very beginning when the police department told us that, hey, a grown person can

just walk off. Oh, the walking off again. The walking off. Yes. Yes, it can happen. Yes, it does happen, but you know, Daniel, I'm glad you're somewhere else and not here in the studio. You'd hit me on the head with the brick. Because how many times do I have to say it to you guys? When you don't know a horse, look at his track record. Come on. This guy texted his mom, and he's by no means a mommy's boy. I'm not saying that. But his mom really loved him, and he really loved his mom. She had been there for him during the hard times with his wife. And I'm not saying the wife wasn't there for him, but they were having issues. They were arguing all the time.

The mom was there. He would stay there at night when he couldn't get along with Amanda. And he was having such a hard time, you know, getting back in the groove of civilian life. She was there. He texted her many times a day. So if that's his track record, why would he suddenly change everything? Now, if it was one of these guys to you, Kim Harris, that, you know, I used to say to my husband, have you talked to your mom today? Have you talked to your dad?

He goes, no, I'll call him on Sunday. I'm like, it's Monday. Are you going to wait seven days? He goes, yeah, I'll call him on Sunday. It's fine. They're fine. And that's just the way he thinks. He loves them dearly.

But that's just him. But this guy, Kim, he texted his mom every day. Right. He stayed in constant contact with her. It was completely out of the norm. And I think where Daniel was saying, as the voicemails continued on, you could hear the worry in her voice because she knew this wasn't Chase. He wouldn't just ignore her calls and not respond back.

Take a listen to Chase's mom Stephanie's's, phone calls we're talking about. Chase Massner. Sorry I wasn't able to come to the phone. Hey, baby, will you give me a call, please? It's your mom. What's she saying? I can't. Just message. Hey, baby, will you please give me a call? I'm assuming that you're just sleeping, which is totally okay, but I need to know that you're all right. I love you. Let me go out to Lee Egan. Let's talk about Detective Twigs, okay?

There were a lot of times that I couldn't understand what they were doing, and I felt like they weren't doing enough. Probably juggling plates as fast as they could was what they were doing. But it felt like the case went cold. What about the investigation? What about Detective Twiggs, Lee? Daniel's right. He came in late in the game. There was already, because Chase was treated like a walkaway, as he said.

They did not suspect foul play. And because of that, there were precious hours and even weeks that went by, you know, evidence that could have been gathered early on that was just lost forever. And by that time, that's when twigs came on and maybe his hands were tied at that point. I don't know what happened. I just know that he had that case for three years before it went to the cold case unit and in three weeks what Cobb police couldn't do in three years the cold case unit got it done. Wow you know when you lay out the timeline it paints a whole different story. Another issue I want to talk about with you guys is how this whole thing went down the mechanics of it because think Because think about it, Daniel Wilkerson, just let's walk through this, okay? This is what we know.

We know for sure, and I'm not taking into account anything his so-called buddy, Brad Clement, has told me and you to our face after we bammed on his door and woke him up one morning, all right? Forget all that. We know that he picked up Chase or was with Chase the night before he was killed. We know that. We know the next morning a construction crew was at Brad's home working on a roof. Nobody saw Chase. We know during that day he claims to have run a bunch of errands,

including, I think, to Lowe's or Home Depot or something like that. We know that during that time the construction crew never saw Chase. Nobody ever saw him leave the house. We know that he invites, inexplicably, the construction crew into his house for a barbecue in the backyard, and then he sets the backyard on fire. Talk about a distraction. Somewhere between Chase getting there the evening before and the construction crew getting there,

he had buried Chase's body under the patio and put a cement slab over it. I wonder if that's what he got at Home Depot or Lowe's. So let's talk about that timeline. How did that work, Daniel Wilkerson? Well, another thing is, you know, when he set the yard on fire at his own admission, I mentioned yesterday, I talked to the roofer and he says that's the same area where they found the body. And so, I mean, it's not a coincidence, I don't believe, that

that happened right in the same place. Now, you know, if he did it on purpose, you know, what was the reason? I mean, there are a ton of questions out there. Guys, I want to thank you all for being with us. Team Chase, Ross, Kim, Michael, Lee, Daniel, Alan, Jackie, everybody here working towards seeking justice now for Chase Masner. Our search for Chase Masner has now turned into a search for justice chase masner and it pains me especially now that i have a little boy when i think of him last night he was running around with a hat on sideways a little baseball hat sideways and he is lucy is now running around guys She saw this little girl online named Sunny Keller. I happened to have done a Hallmark show with her one time, so I got to impress her by showing her the old clip. She's like a do-it-yourselfer online,

and she saw the little girl playing the ukulele. Well, guess what Lucy has? A ukulele. Yeah, pushed over my arm, ran right out and got one. She's doing that and john david is doing magic tricks and has now wearing all of his clothes inside out and backwards okay and a hat to the side even in the house he walks around with the baseball hat on sideways He will not take it off. And I just look at them and it just breaks my heart. I love them so much and can't believe they're turning 10. And I'm sure Chase's mom was like, I can't believe he's turning 15. I can't believe he's turning 21. And now she's saying, I can't believe

they found his body. I can't believe it was under a cement slab right there all this time. Okay, I have not even had the heart to call her because I don't think I can bear to hear her voice. Since his body was found, you know, like in the last 24 hours-ish. But now what about justice? Daniel Wilkerson has been on this along with Team Chase, and they are with us right now. Daniel, can we talk about Brad? Sure.

You remember you and I talked to Brad early, early that morning in his Flophouse hotel room, and I walked away saying, something's not right, but he seemed like such a laid-back dude, you know, it was hard to imagine him, he seemed almost weak in a way, which leads me to the way this must have gone down, because he was weak, Chase was a stronger, physically stronger person than him, but he seemed mean he talked to us he sat there and poured cereal we talked for hours and you spoke to him recently on the phone after the body was

found what happened yeah he said that he uh he feels right now that he was framed he doesn't know how the body got there what yeah wait you. Wait, you made me choke on my tea. Wait a minute. You know, I kept trying to say, look, Daniel, I know he's lying. I can tell you he's lying. All right. We both agreed on that. But maybe he's lying about something else.

Maybe he's lying because he was doing drugs that night. Maybe he was lying because, I don't know, I was coming up with reasons other than him being a killer as to why he was lying or hiding a body. But what else did he say to you about the body? Well, he said, hey, if I were going to hide a body, and I'm paraphrasing, if I was going to hide a body, you know, he said I would burn it. Is what he said, I would burn it, is what he said. Okay, as many times as I have written murder mysteries and threatened my husband to kill him, I've never actually thought about the mechanics of exactly how I would do it. It's one thing to make it up in a book where somebody is pushed into an alligator farm pond

or somebody's given Alma milk when you know they have a nut allergy but it's a different thing when you're talking about an actual person you know and you say oh i would burn the body he said he would do that to give you know to get rid of evidence is what he said listen to this guys here is brad clement talking to daniel after the discovery of Chase's body in his old backyard under his patio covered with a slab of cement. Listen. But Brad, who would plant a body back there? What would they gain out of it? I don't get it.

Well, I mean, why would they fucking accuse me of doing this anyway? Someone's obviously trying to set me up. Like, why would I put it right behind my house? Like, why would I do that? Especially if I had all this s*** going around. That'd be the stupidest f***ing thing. Like, I wouldn't f***ing bury a body. If I was going to f***ing have a body, I'd probably burn it.

Or do something stupid. It's evident. Like, that's f***ing stupid. Somebody's trying to set me up. This whole time, someone's trying to set me up this whole time someone tried to set me up all right the whole time what i mean what what voting do i have to do anything to the kid anyway like i heard you do it but the mechanics of it daniel wilkerson that's what i want to talk to you about the facts the facts the evidence i mean how many times can I say we have to look at the evidence? When did he get cement

mix? Can it be traced? And when would he have done this? It had to be during the night. You know, construction workers, they're sitting out in your driveway at about 4 a.m. waiting and it was they did not want to be up on that roof in the heat so they were there and so when when would he have done this well well this is the thing you know he claimed that um he made several trips that day that next day when the roofers got there the day that chase went missing um but i learned from a source a source close to uh the investigation that brad's phone according to them also chase's phone they never pinged outside the area of the qt and brad's house as you know brad's house is about say two miles from the qt the qt of course is where Chase worked, where Brad says he picked him up from the night before. And the Lowe's is right next to the QT, basically.

There you go. And I didn't know that. I didn't know that information until probably a couple of weeks ago that those cell phones never pinged. And the same tower, there's only one tower in that area. And so Lowe's, QT, and Brad's house are on the same tower. He never left the house. He never left the house.

So, Kim Harris, he never left that house. He went there that night and when Brad told Daniel and me that they stayed up all night talking about amanda that ain't why they stayed up all night okay he was trying to figure out what to do brad was trying to figure out what to do with chase's body that's what happened absolutely that's why they were up all night i agree and i also was

just thinking over everything last night and the phone call that i had with brandon doug and to my understanding he told you the same thing that he found it very odd if you're having a cookout there was a nice day that brad was so insistent that they eat inside why didn't they eat on the deck? It all makes sense now because of burying a body underneath the deck. And he set the backyard on fire possibly to cover a smell and same reason of not wanting to be on the deck for fear of anyone smelling anything. And I hate to say it that way, but that is the only thing that makes sense, why you would not eat outside and you're having a cookout on a night stay. And don't forget, Nancy, the roofer, Brandon Duck, told us that Brad had bought all of this food for the cookout and he didn't eat. And they wonder, why is he not eating? He cooked all this food.

And also, Brandon Duck, Dr. Rupert told us that Brat was acting very erratically he was moving around very nervous acting and so you know who knows well when you piece it together those trips had to be to Lowe's to get cement mix and I imagine Lowe's probably opens up around seven or eight o'clock in the morning um maybe six six a.m and i do have confirmed you know he had told brad had told police that he had one of his trips out that day the day chase went missing while the roofers was were there uh one of his trips was to take a computer to a friend i do have confirmed that police could never confirm that.

Yeah. You know, we kept asking that. Where's this friend? Where's this friend? Let's do a timeline. And nobody could ever figure out where the so-called friend was. So to make the cement, you have to mix it up, keep it mixing, keep it mixing. Don't let it dry and pour it out.

It's not easy. I've seen my dad do it a lot he would lay everything in our backyard and um can you just imagine that scenario to Ross of him up under that patio it's like a deck trying to bury a body wrapped in tarp which he probably also got at Lowe's, and then mix cement and pour it over the top of it? I couldn't even begin to imagine it. It's still hard for me to even fathom, you know, he was there being there the whole time.

It's hard to even talk about. Joining me right now from Team Chase, Tammy Childs. Tammy, thank you so much for being with us. We're going through the timeline and the way this must have unfolded because when that construction crew got there and Brad knew they were coming, Brad Clement knew they were coming early in the morning. He had to, he kept leaving the house for so-called errands. I believe he was going to get everything he needed to hide that body. I believe that. So he had to get cement, mix it, and put a slab over the body.

And I really believe Chase died during the night, maybe not even long after he got there. What do you make of it, Tammy Childs? I absolutely agree with you, Nancy. I agree. I believe when he said he went to Lowe's, he got the materials, the concrete and whatever else he needed to do this with. I believe Chase died that night. Tell me how Stephanie is.

She's devastated. She's devastated. I mean, we knew in our hearts that this day would come. But now it's real. You know, Michael Swagger with us, who put up a big chunk of the reward to help find Chase Master, also a private investigator. Michael, how do you think, and I'm talking about based on the evidence we have,

the timeline we have, Brad's and Chase's movements that night night how do you think the scenario unfolded michael i mean based upon the the information that we've received that suggests that the phones never never left that area is is that night that there there wasn't much movement um nor nor did chase leave uh the house uh the next day as has been claimed. I think the evidence suggests that he never did, and I mean that's very clearly been affirmed by the discovery the day before yesterday, which has to be technically confirmed. Exactly. You know, that brings me to another issue.

Daniel. Yes. Daniel. Yes. They said immediately to you as you're standing at the house and the medical examiner is there and they are physically digging up Chase's body. They said almost immediately it's Chase. Now it's been a couple of years now. There had to be something there. Was it his cell phone? Was it his t-shirt? Was it his Quick Trip ID? I mean, there was something about that body. They knew immediately that it was Chase. They haven't officially put it out that this is Chase and this is the cause of death, but they knew immediately. Do you think it was the cell phone? What was it? what did they find in that shallow grave well this is the

thing as you said i when i got there uh police were in the back they had no idea that i was coming um i was the only reporter there and when the one of the detectives came around um i started asking questions um and i got kind of detailed i I wanted to know, you know, uh, was he covered, you know, what was the state of the body? And, um, from his face, he didn't tell me, but from his facial expression, I could tell that there were things there, whether they be items or whatever, that only the person who put them there would know about. And so I've heard from a source that the police department, they're going to keep that very tight-lipped. They're not going to discuss what was found with the body because they say only the person who put them there will know. Human remains discovered in the backyard of a resident, Brad Clement, where a young, bright-eyed guy turned Iraqi war vet,

was last seen for three years. We have been looking for Chase, looking for Chase Masner, finding Chase. Now a whole new chapter of this story is opening. In the last 72 hours, Chase's body has been found in a shallow grave wrapped in a tarp under a makeshift cement slab. We are on it. Join us in seeking justice for Chase Masner. All right, Daniel Wilkerson, Channel 46. Take a listen to more of what Brad Clement, let me jog your memory, Daniel, told you and me. You were sitting right beside him. I was sitting Indian style on his bed staring him. I wouldn't even blink because I wanted to watch every expression on his face. We walked out of that room. I looked at you in the lobby and went, you know he's lying, right?

Yes. Yeah, he's lying. But we didn't know why. That's the thing. We didn't know why. Listen, listen, Daniel. Take me through what happened when he goes missing. I mean, it's really not that much.

Like, it's like everybody says, I like changed my story and all this stuff. But it's like, that was like what I did that day. You know, I mean, that wasn't really anything to do with Chase. It was like, you know, I ran a bunch of errands. What I was doing, you know, most of the time when I was fixing up my house. Like, he was there that night and then you know basically left sometime between when I was coming back from uh the store to when I started cooking like I mean he had to like I mean that that's the only logical thing so Daniel now that I have jogged your memory thoughts well I was talking speaking with a person close

to the investigation yesterday, and they told me that if the medical examiner can't come up with a cause of death, it may make it hard to get a murder conviction. I don't know what that means. You probably would know better than me,

Nancy. Well, yeah. What could be argued at trial, and I certainly don't want to give many ideas, is that Chase died from a natural cause. But I find it hard to believe that a medical examiner would not be able to determine natural cause of death. If there is, of course, a gunshot wound, you'll find that, especially if you find a bullet. If there's a blow to the head, you'll find that in the skull. If it's soft tissue, like a strangulation or asphyxiation, much, let me just say, spin a yarn.

All right. So it is going to be hard. But I mean, even based on what he said, married with married to the facts that we know, we've already figured out the approximate time of death. It was during the night before the construction crew got there. And if you look at what he's saying, you can see straight before the construction crew got there. And if you look at what he's saying, you can see straight through the subterfuge. Like I had to go to deliver a computer to X. Well, X doesn't exist. So that means he went to Lowe's. Does Lowe's have videotape? Do they still have surveillance video from three years ago? If so, can we recreate what

he bought at Lowe's? He got it at Lowe's, okay? He got some mint mix there. That's what I'm betting. I'm betting. Right now, we don't know anything. He has not been formally charged and certainly not convicted. And under our rules of evidence, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So in the eyes of the law, he is an innocent person.

Don't get me wrong, okay? Now let's talk about the facts. You know, another thing that Stephanie, Chase's mother, was concerned about, and we spoke on this yesterday, there was a month in between the time when the cold case unit out there with the dog, when the dogs hit on human remains, and the time when they actually made the dig. Now, keep in mind, at that point when the dogs hit, the cold case unit, the district attorney's cold case unit had the case.

Soon after that, for some reason, they had to turn it back over to the Cobb County Police Department. And there was a month, span of month before uh the police uh made that dig now i was told by the police department that they had to check uh for pipes underground pipes but chase's mother her concern is you know did it take a month for them to check for underground pipes you know to tammy childs uh you were with daniel wilkerson and myself in that room when we finally united brad clement who we believe was with chase at the time he died and we believe buried his body in the backyard under cement slab and. And Stephanie, Chase's mom, she had wanted to meet Brad to look at him face-to-face and ask him questions.

When I think back on that meeting, Tammy Childs, it just gives me, it just makes my stomach sick because she was looking for answers about her son and they actually hugged, as I recall. Yes, they did. They absolutely did. And Brad just lied to her. Brad lied to her. Right to her face. Yes, he did.

What are her thoughts now? You've been in close contact with her. What are her thoughts regarding Brad? Brad Clement. She's in shock. She's in shock. She's in shock. She cannot believe how he could have done this, how he could have lied right through her face.

So now what happens, Daniel Wilkerson? You mentioned it's going to be hard to come up with an M.O., and prove murder. I completely disagree, okay? And I'll tell you why. If somebody falls down the steps, what do you do? You call 911. Somebody has a car crash, what do you do?

911. When I see somebody on the side of the road, I call 911, you know, to help them. You try to do CPR. You don't run to the backyard and put the body in a shallow grave wrapped in a tarp under a slab of homemade cement. Why would you do that?

Okay? So clearly a jury could infer from that some wrongdoing. I mean, am I, what, am I Alice in Wonderland? Am I the only one that's standing straight up and not upside down?

Come on, Daniel, please. I mean, don't laugh at me. I'm serious. What do you mean? No foul play. Please. If this had been a normal or a natural cause of death, Chase would not have been in a backyard under a slab of cement.

Yeah. What is it about Brad Clement that everybody wants to make an excuse for him? I mean, I did it too. Because when we left that long interview that we basically ambushed him, I'm like, you know what? He's totally lying.

But what is he lying about? See, instead of going, he's lying. He must be guilty. I didn't say that. There's something about him what is it i'll say this nancy leading up to the interview and all through this process i've spent a lot of time with brad clement and i will just say personally uh he's a likable person i mean the brad clement that i know to the extent that I know him, you know, I can't see doing anything like this.

You know, then there is the evidence, you know, that we've seen as of late. But you've met him. I mean, he is a likable person. He's very calm. He had a bowl of cereal while we were interviewing him that day in the hotel. The first time I interviewed him at his mother's house, he was putting in a radiator for his mother. He never stopped installing that radiator. I sat on his mother's porch. He never stopped installing that radiator while he went over the chain of events. Never.

His neighbors, they have all told us in the last couple of days he was a likable or is a likable person, was a great neighbor. So just from my personal experience and being around him, I mean, he doesn't act like he would hurt a fly. It is a dichotomy. When you know Brad Clement or when you're around him, I don't think any of us really know him. But when you're around him, Daniel's right. He does not give off the vibe. This is the guy that would sit in a pit group in his den and watch sports or a TV marathon for like 24 hours straight eating chips and, you know, knows all about how to break down and put back together a computer, install a radiator. He's no idiot.

He's just kind of an unassuming, laid-back dude. And it's hard to reconcile that with someone in the middle of the night burying a body in the backyard. But Daniel, you know what? For 10 straight years, I would look at people in court and think, how could they have done that? Why would they do that? And it never made sense to me. It doesn't have to make sense.

All it has to be is the truth. I don't have to know why. I just have to know the truth, Daniel. You know, another thing that I've been thinking about is this, and I'm probably going to look into this here in the next couple of days, is, you know, when I think I told you yesterday that when I spoke with Brad right after the dogs hit, his concern was, he said, man, I can't believe y'all are taking these new homeowners through this. All along, you know, I've had a somewhat of a relationship. I've been in contact with the new owners of the home, Brad's old home. And can you imagine if there was a body found in the backyard of a home you own now for what, a year or two? I mean, every time, say if you get ready to sell it, you know, every time someone puts that address in, this story is going to come up. And the way I understand it, Brad sold that home to flippers, people who remodeled the house, and the flippers

sold the house to this couple. And shortly after that, they learn from neighbors the allegations. Take a listen to what Chase's mother has to say. The first several weeks, they were not actively investigating because, in their words, it's not a crime to be missing. If he wanted to walk away, it's not a crime to be missing. If he wanted to walk away, it's not a crime. Okay, let's talk about that. Had he ever in his life gone this long without texting you or calling you? Ever?

Never. And you know what I say, if you don't know a horse, look at his track record. So, what somebody has done in the past, they're likely to do again. If he had gone his whole life texting you and calling you every what? Day, other day, what? All the time. Then why would he quit that day? Right.

And say to H-E-L-L with my mother. See, I don't believe that. I don't either. I just want to know the truth. I want to know what happened to Chase. Do you believe Chase is still alive? I do not. Now, are you saying that with your heart and your head, or...?

Yes. I don't believe he's alive. Can you think of a reason that anyone would have wanted him dead? Not a single reason. I've lived the last three years not knowing. And every single day is just hell to everyone joining us today

Daniel Wilkerson, Channel 46 Team Chase Kim Harris, Michael Swagger Ross Worms, Lee Egan Alan Duke, Tammy Childs, and everyone joining us in finding Chase Masner and now our search for justice for Chase. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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