Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CHEER MOM MAKES NAKED DEEP FAKES OF TEEN CHEER RIVALS

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Deep fake videos have been the talk of the internet after videos purportedly of Tom Cruise showed up on Tik Tok, but it wasn't really the actor. it was faked. Now a Pennsylvania woman is accused of doctoring photos and videos of her daughter's cheerleading rivals. Raffaela Spone's aim was to get the girls kicked off the squad, authorities said. In the doctored media, the girls were shown in various states of undress and vaping.Joining Nancy Grace today: Ken Belkin Criminal Defense Attorney, belkinlaw.com Dr. Jenn Mann - Marriage and Family Therapist, Host 'Couples Therapy' on VH1, "The Dr. Jenn Show” on Sirius XM, Author: "The A to Z Guide to Raising Happy, Confident Kids"  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Glenn Bard - Retired Pennsylvania State Trooper First Class, Computer Crime Investigations, U.S. Veteran of Operation Desert Storm, PATCtech Digital Forensics patctech.com Levi Page - Crime Online Investigative Reporter, Host, "Crime and Scandal" True Crime Podcast, YouTube.com/LeviPageTV  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Cheerleaders? Naked? Vaping? On video? Really? Actually, no, not really. Have you ever heard of a deep fake? Wait till you hear this. What does a naked cheerleader vaping, deep fake, and cheer mom have in common. Take a listen to this. We know cheerleading is a competitive sport, but here in Bucks County, one mom is accused of targeting her daughter's teammates. Authorities say creating fake photos and videos and sending them to the coaches.

Her attorney insists she is not guilty, but now many are wondering how a mom could stoop so low. Man, you're not kidding. Stoop low, that's one thing. A crime, that's a whole nother animal. Being a bad person or stooping so low, according to the church lady, that's bad enough. But breaking a law, that's when I get involved. You were just hearing our friend Lauren Dugan at Fox 29 with me. What a panel to try to make sense of this. Ken Belkin with me, renowned criminal defense attorney joining us. What's your jurisdiction, Ken Belkin?

Where are you right now? I'm in New York, but I'm fully versed on this Pennsylvania law. Well, I hope you're not eating in a restaurant and I hope you're wearing a mask and staying at least six feet away from everybody. Dr. Jen Mann, a family therapist, host of Couples Therapy, VH1, The Dr. Jen Show on SiriusXM, author, A to Z Guide to Raising Happy, Confident Kids. Man, this mom could use you, Dr. Jen Mann. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

Start of a brand new hit on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons. This guy knows his forensics. Joseph Scott Morgan, special guest joining us for the first time. Former Pennsylvania State Trooper First Class Computer Crimes Investigations, U.S. veteran. That's what impressed me the most out of this, of Operation Desert Storm. PATCTech.com. Glenn Bard is with us, a forensics expert when it comes to all things digital. I'm going to let him and Joe Scott Morgan duke it out. But first, to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and host

of Crime and Scandal, true crime podcast. Levi Page, this is almost unbelievable. You know, I was a cheerleader, little known fact. And the way that happened is, I think our school, very small school, had 15 girls basketball uniforms. Well, 16 people tried out. Guess who got cut? The shortest one. That would be me. So what was I supposed to do?

There was nothing else for girls except basketball. Well, that started my cheerleading career. To imagine your mother pulling a stunt like this, pardon the pun, I actually had a dream last night. I very rarely remember my dreams. The most my mom did besides come to games to watch me cheer or watch the game, we had to go door to door selling plastic cups with a smiley face on them. And to show how strong they were, Jackie, we'd have to turn them upside down and stand on them. And they did not break. I think I still have one, actually. That's about as involved as she got, dragging me door to door, trying to raise money for uniforms.

But this is way, way beyond the pale. What is alleged, Levi? Well, Nancy, this all started when three members of this cheer team, there were photos and videos that were sent to all members of the teenagers, minor girls, in stages of undress, vaping, smoking, and drinking. And that is when an investigation was underway the thing is when these videos of the girls naked vaping were sent, the other cheer moms got it. And I think the counselors got it. Hold on, Levi, I'm going to come right back to you. But you just gave me a thought.

Dr. Jen Mann, you can find her on the Dr. Jen Show Series XM. Jen, I remember our cheerleading, I guess you would say counselor was Ms. Norman. And I ran into Ms. Norman recently. This is, you know, 20 plus years after. And she said, yes, Nancy, you were wild, wild, wild. And I thought, wow, I never drank or smoked. How was I wild? She said, because you remember remember, didn't like something around your neck, which is true to this day, like turtlenecks. And you would always unbutton the top button on your shirt, on your cheerleading uniform.

And I had to reprimand you every game because then you'd turn around and you'd unbutton it again. And that was the, yeah, okay was that was the big crime and can you imagine a naked video of one of the girls I can still remember when I had a little split in my bloomers and you could see my like that much of my underwear on the back during a pep rally of course nobody told me till the pep rally was over then everybody told me so you can see that much of white underwear in the back and i never lived it down to this day can you imagine one of these girls getting naked videos and then trying to explain to everybody oh it's not real it's a deep fake oh it's mortifying it's

absolutely mortifying and obviously it's illegal but it's just really a mother who would go to this extreme is clearly deeply pathological. That's one way to put it. Deeply pathological. Of course, I went and got my J.D., not my psychology degree like you. What do you mean by pathological? What exactly? You know, you shrinks throw that around all the time. What do you mean by pathological? What exactly? You know, you shrinks throw that around all the time. What do you mean by pathological? Let's see if we can

stump Dr. Jen. I bet she's Googling it right now. Are you Googling pathological? I'm not. I've come prepared. I promise you, I got a few degrees. I had to study this stuff. But basically, it means that they are sick emotionally, cognitively, that there's something very wrong with the way that they think to an extent that they are really unwell. clearly has no idea of right and wrong when it comes to morality, when it comes to parenting. I mean, even just the concept that she is creating something that is so harmful and humiliating to children in order for her daughter to win, that's crazy stuff. That's really crazy stuff. When you hear the details of this case, guys, take a listen to Sarah Blomquist at 6 ABC. A Bucks County woman is under arrest after police say she sent fake pictures of her teenage daughter's cheerleading rivals in compromising situations to their coaches. Investigators say she was trying to get the girls kicked off the team, the Victory Vipers in chalfont 50 year old rafael espon is accused of manipulating photos from the

social media accounts of three girls to make it look like they were drinking and smoking and even digitally altering them to make the girls appear that they were unclothed the suspect is alleged to have taken a real picture and edited it through some photoshopping app to make it look like this teenage girl had no clothes on to appear nude when in reality that picture was a screen grab from the the teenager's social media in which she had a bathing suit on investigators say spone also sent messages with those faked pictures to the victims, suggesting they killed themselves. Spohn is charged with cyber harassment of a child and harassment. Telling a teen girl she should kill herself?

I mean, my little girl just turned 13. And the pressure on little girls to look a certain way, be a certain way, act a certain way, it's a crime. And then you send a little girl, these are girls, a message that they should kill themselves. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Glenn Bard, former Pennsylvania State Trooper, first class, computer crime investigations, veteran, PATCTech.com. You know, Glenn, when I first learned about this story, and again, it's not a story.

I'm using that in the loose sense of the word. This isn't some made up fable. This is real with little girls getting videos of themselves naked vaping. Glenn, I was thinking how, because you can see a little clip of it without it being, you know, profane, I guess, of a naked child. You can generally see what the clip is. And I thought, how, if this is true, how does she do it? And then I thought of something my son does all the time. He, while I'm working, will come up to me and take a picture. He does it to his dad too. And then he will send me the picture, except I'll be wearing like a Rasta hat with a long beard and dreads. And then the next one, my head will be attached to a mushroom.

I mean, it can be all kind of things. And he can do that in one click. So maybe it's not as difficult as it sounds. So how, if she did it, did this woman, Raffaella Spohn, 50, old enough to know better, how'd she do it? Well, how this works, this is kind of like the new version of Photoshop. You know, we used to just take a photo and cut a part out and put a new one in. No, actually, I've never done that. So we didn't Photoshop anything.

But I understand how it's done. Okay, I know about the Kardashians. I know that much. That's all I need to know. Go ahead. Well, certain people would do that. And what this does is using basically artificial intelligence, these applications are able to take a still frame, an image from social media, and not only put it into a picture, but also now put it into video. And because it's using this artificial intelligence, it's much more exact and much more precise so you're not going to see like edges like we wouldn't Photoshop you're not going to be able to see the differences in

coloration this is able to use the artificial intelligence look at the pixels and even make that image move along with the video so it's very very good and it's because technology getting, it's allowing for more of this to take place. And it can be done on phones or on computer systems. And the hard part about it is because it is so good, it's very difficult to detect that it is one of these deep fakes. When it was Photoshopped, it was very easy because you could just see that it was clearly not the real original person. But because of this artificial intelligence, it makes it so good, it's almost impossible, especially to the human eye, to detect that it isn't the original person.

Well, I've looked at what video has been released, and I don't want to click on the wrong thing because I don't want to click on video of this little girl purportedly naked vaping. But I want to see how they did it. And I hear what you're saying, but they did not teach computer tech or IT tech in law school. I guess they should when it comes to criminal procedure. Actually, that's a really good idea. Note to self. But Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert, also, what is the difference in, and break it down for me, Joe Scott, in a deep fake and Photoshopping? I know Glenn Bard said it, but I think I need, I need a redo. What?

Yeah, as Glenn was saying, it's really hard to, you know, in the days of this kind of photoshopping that was going on years and years ago, and I guess to a certain extent today, you can actually appreciate that there's something that's not quite right with it. But, you know, when you watch a lot of these deep fakes that are on air and, you know, online now, they're absolutely terrifying because they do have very clean edges. And so when you're watching this, even the facial expressions, eye movement, all of this sort of thing and reaction to what is being said and done is terrifying. And one more thing I want to add about this. I'm I'm really thinking, you know, we were talking about how they had manipulated these. She had manipulated these images of these young girls. Let's let's repeat that again. Young girls. You know, I think that in certain jurisdictions, certain courts have held that even some kind of manipulated image of a young child can bring about charges of child pornography. And I'm really wondering if the D.A. has not toyed with this idea as well.

Will they have the guts to call it what it is? Manipulation into child porn. You know, a lot of people have not even heard the words deep fake put together in one phrase until just recently. Let's go to our cut 14. This is our friend Carson Daly on the Today Show. Take a listen. It involves Tom Cruise. Is it Tom Cruise? Is it not Tom Cruise? This week, it seemed like the actor had joined TikTok.

That's what we thought. But it all turned out to be a series of elaborate deep fake videos where special effects take a person's likeness and apply it to somebody else. The Cruise ones from this week are being called some of the best and most unsettling examples of deepfakes yet. Let me show you some magic. These Tom Cruise TikToks, they were reviewed 11 million times before being made private.

Fortune.com seems to have discovered the guy behind them. Visual effects artist Chris Yume has done some of these impressive deepfake videos before, including one of Tom Cruise of an impersonator named Miles Fisher. That was posted in January, that one looking even more polished. A behind-the-scenes video from Hume shows how the impersonator has turned into Cruise using digital effects. Some people are saying the technology could have eventually some serious

implication for what's real and what's not. Well, someone should have told that to Raffaella Spohn, age 50, now standing accused of multiple crimes after she allegedly goes after her daughter's cheerleading rivals by creating deep fakes of them, naked, vaping, smoking, all of that, being against cheer policy. Of course, let's take a listen to our Cut 13, still on Tom Cruise. What's up, TikTok?

You guys cool if I play some sports? I love it. More for the audio experience. As much as the momentum. Hey, listen up, sports and TikTok fans. If you like what you're seeing, just wait till what's coming next. Kind of a maniacal laugh that only Tom Cruise can emit.

I've got to confess, I watched all the deep you did too, all the deep fakes of Tom Cruise. And I thought it was Tom Cruise. Never met him in real life, but it looked like Tom Cruise. So Ken Belkin, criminal defense attorney, practicing out of New York right now, but he's in federal court, which can be all over the country. Ken Belkin, you're no stranger to the courtroom. This mother is looking at some very serious penalties. Well, they haven't hit her with the worst of it, really,

but she is facing, you know, up to a year in jail and $2,500 fine. As one of your other guests pointed out, you know, there should be the potential possibility for child pornography charges. And those could, you know, be federal. And those would come with extremely stiff penalties, multi-year sentences.

Multi-year sentences. But if this is re-examined, as I think it should be by the local prosecutor, with each deep fake on the three girls. That's an additional misdemeanor as the charges stand right now. If there are other charges for each individual victim or each time, as in child porn, you disseminate it or send it, think about it, to all the other girls on the squad, to all the chaperones, the counselors, to the parents. Each one of that dissemination is a crime. If those are run consecutively, she's looking at a long time behind bars. And guess what? That is not

bothering me at all. It will be a cold day in H-E-d he double l that a mom does this to one of my children and doesn't go to jail warning if this applies to you who's jumping in who is that well i can i was gonna say but to be fair it's not like she actually made a video this was an artificial intelligence created how can you even say that, Belkin? She made the video. But it's not like she actually filmed these girls and put them in that situation, which, you know, would be much, much worse. The law is going to have to at some point come to terms. Oh, OK. So let me understand, Ken Belkin, you're saying she should get a gold star for not actually stripping the girls and giving them vape pipes.

Okay, now I see. I'm not saying she's a mother of the year. Did they teach you that? Where did you go to law school? You've used that one on me before now. Have I? Darn. It obviously didn't work. crime stories with nancy grace guys we're talking about a 50 year old mother translation

old enough to know better her name rafael espone take a listen to our friend Stephanie Gosk, NBC News Today. Authorities say behind it all was Rafaela Spohn, whose own daughter is a teammate of Himes on the Victory Vipers cheer squad. Spohn is now charged with three counts each of cyber harassment of a child and harassment. My client denies what they have charged her with, and we are going to aggressively fight this. In a statement, the Victory Vipers said, in part, their group has always promoted a family environment, and we are sorry for all individuals involved. And more from Stephanie Gosk at NBC, our cut one. It's a troubling new take on cyberbullying. A mom in Pennsylvania is accused

this morning of using so-called deep fakes to anonymously harass members of her daughter's cheerleading team. I think I was just so much like in shock with everything going on, like I couldn't really comprehend like what was going on. Maddie Heim says after getting several threatening calls and texts from unknown numbers, some even saying she should take her own life. Her cheer coaches told Maddie they received this video that supposedly showed her vaping. She and her mom shared it with us. They say it's fake. I felt like if I said to someone like no one, no one would trust me. They have the video on proof, even though the video wasn't real. Man, I know how that feels because my children are at the age where they can go online and read things that are written about mommy.

And I try to tell them, be careful of what you read and try to understand and decipher if it's true or not. And this teen girl is put in the position of seeing a video of herself naked vaping and feeling like no one would believe she was telling the truth. Take a listen to Eva Pilgrim at GMA. Maddie Heim was 16 years old when one of her coaches pulled her aside over this video appearing to show her vaping, a violation of squad rules. I went in the car and started crying and was like, that's not me on video. Maddie eventually telling her mother someone had been sending her manipulated photos of herself along with these text messages, identifying themselves as a concerned parent. When she texted back, who is this? She received a generic response from a texting app that lets you choose

your own phone number. It had actually been going on for quite a while. I just didn't know about it. I told her I'm going to call the while. I just didn't know about it. I told her I'm going to call the police because I wanted her to know that's how much I believed her. When you use that app for fake phone numbers, and I've actually advised people to use them when they're online dating. So until you know the person you're going to meet, they're so easy to use. You can use it with your regular phone, but it emits a different cell number. So until you know the person's on the up and up that you're going to meet, use that fake phone number app. Now she, Raffaella Stone denies she had anything to do with this. But take a listen again to Eva Pilgrim, GMA. Police say they traced the calls back to Inella's home and found evidence on her phone linking her to the messages. There was a lot of masking, a lot of spoofing,

a lot of cloaking going on. And this is something, unfortunately, we're seeing all too frequently now. With technological advances, so-called deep fakes are becoming more and more common. Let me go back to our forensics experts. Glenn Bard joining me, a former Pennsylvania State Trooper, Computer Crimes Investigations, a U.S. veteran. Now he runs PATC, P-A-T-C, Tech Digital Forensics, patctech.com. Glenn Bart, I just heard masking, spoofing, cloaking. When I hear cloaking, I guess you're familiar with Captain, Mr. Spock and Captain Kirk and the cloaking device? Or if not, maybe you've seen the cloak of invisibility with Harry Potter.

That's all I can think of. So what do they mean as it relates to this case technically? Well, what they're doing with this is they are using a phone number that doesn't come back to, like, say, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile. When you get phone numbers, there's three types, a mobile network operator, a mobile virtual network operator, and one of these from an application, which is essentially just a voiceover internet protocol phone number. And the thing about it, people think that these applications just magically make a number up, and they can't, because if they would do that,

they may actually make up yours or somebody else's. All the numbers have been accounted for. But what these applications do is they purchase a number that isn't being used from a wholesaler. There's one main one that everybody deals with. They purchase these numbers and they assign it to that user in that application. And the cloaking it's doing is basically it's making it so the number doesn't come back to you individually through a cell phone company. And also because most of us have our phone numbers out there through other means, it's pretty easy to find our phone numbers by searching it and so on. This new number that doesn't come back to one of the providers can kind of be a hidden number that

allows them to use it more free of being identified. That's the cloaking taking place. Okay, I managed to keep up with you on that one. You know, to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, after police traced the call and found out that she was, as Glenn Bartis just told us, cloaking her true number with this cloaking app, they searched her phone. What does that mean? If you could explain to people that haven't had to do it as we have, when you execute a search warrant, which has been approved by a judge or a magistrate,

to search a phone, what does that mean and how do you do it? Yeah, well, this is the key, Nancy. First off, with electronic forensics, you have to be very careful. I teach my students at Jacksonville State when we're going through some of these procedures that you use at crime scenes. Imagine that any kind of electronic device is essentially like you're dealing with a landmine. You don't want to touch anything. You want to be very careful once you've identified this thing, because in the field, when we collect these items, we have to get these things back to a certified technician, forensic technician that can actually kind of, you know,

kind of take this thing apart and look at it very, very carefully, because if you don't, you will, you run the risk of potentially ruining everything that's contained therein in that particular device. And so these computers, phones, they have a specific identifier in them that has linkage back to the person that's being accused of the crime. And that is a specific identifier that ultimately goes back to framing who this person was that was starting the crime to begin with. And make no mistake, Nancy, these are serious charges

and this is a crime that she's involved in. And that phone is going to link her back to all of this. Okay. I'm just thinking about what she allegedly did and the impact that it is having. Back to Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter and host of Crime and Scandal, True Crime Podcast. What do we know about the rivalry that seemingly existed between Raffaella Stone, age 50's daughter, and the other girls. Why would she have resorted to this? What did she hope to achieve? Well, Nancy, one of the fathers of one of the

girls that was targeted said that a lot of the parents were concerned about the behavior from Raphael Stone's daughter. They didn't approve of it. They didn't go into specifics, but they wanted their daughters to distance themselves from daughter. They didn't approve of it. They didn't go into specifics, but they wanted their daughters to distance themselves from her because they didn't want her to pick up whatever she was doing and be around that. And that is what made this mother do this. That was the motive.

Talk about high school mean girls. And now it is infected the mother, according to police. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're talking about a mother, Raffaella Spohn, who creates deep fakes so believable that the coaches, the parents, the other cheerleaders believe their fellow cheerleaders were actually naked vaping and smoking cigarettes. One girl says she went and sat in the car and cried. She wanted to say, that's not me. But yet there was a video of her in that position.

Why? Over cheer rivalry. But I hate to tell you, it's not the first time mothers break the rules, including committing crimes to further their daughters, to further their child. As a matter of fact, here's a recent one. Take a listen to Cody Long at WKRG News 5. This investigation started in November when the school district received a report that there was unauthorized access to some of the students' accounts. And then today, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement arrested 50-year-old Laura Carroll. She is an assistant principal at Bellevue Elementary School. Her daughter is a student at Tate High School,

but we're not releasing her name because she is 17 years old. They're accused of accessing student focus accounts after hundreds of votes for Tate High School's homecoming court were flagged as fraudulent. Investigators say 117 votes came from the same IP address. Multiple students told FDLE that the daughter described using her mother's focus account to cast those votes. Carol was booked and released today from the Escambia County Jail. Her daughter was taken to the juvenile detention center. Good Lord in heaven. Dr. Jen Mann, I started to go to Levi Page for more facts on that, but I think I need

to shrink quickly because from what I'm understanding, an assistant principal down in Florida and her daughter hack into students' school. My children have them, and they're only allowed to do schoolwork. They can't send emails. They can't look up things on Google. All they can do is schoolwork on those accounts, and they get flagged if they do anything else. Apparently, this assistant principal, according to authorities, hacked the students' accounts and cast 117 fake ballots for a homecoming court for Pete's sake of all things, and they find 117 votes from one IP address. I mean, what is this mother thinking?

An assistant principal to top it all off? And I think one of the things that is a constant with both of these stories that is particularly troubling is this concept that you want your child to win on, but not legitimately, that somehow the win is more important than actually the process of the hard work that goes into cheerleading and winning or homecoming and campaigning so that your friends vote for you. The important life skill aspect of both of these stories is completely missing in the parents' understanding and desire for their kids to win. And look, what parent doesn't want their kids to win, but to want them to win at all costs and so illegitimately, not to mention that you commit a crime to do it? It's really not.

You know, to Ken Belkin, criminal defense attorney, my son, my daughter was too shy to do it, but my son ran for student body, some position on student body. And the most I did was come up with a slogan, don't be a Grinch, vote for Lynch. It worked. He won. Actually, I can't take any credit whatsoever. But I can't imagine hacking into the student's computer accounts to get your daughter, I guess, get your daughter on homecoming court. She's going to be on homecoming court in Jivvy jail for Pete's sake. That's what mommy got her. I mean, what happens to these parents?

Don't they understand this is breaking the law, hacking into computer accounts that aren't yours? By the way, you know, this is happening more and more. And in fact, I got a case last week I was hired on involving something very similar, you know, in New York. And the fact of the matter is, most of the time, these are otherwise very good, upstanding citizens. But I guess they're in the privacy of their home and they're on their computer and they just don't have the wherewithal to understand that, yes, you can break the law from in the privacy of your home and on your laptop. It is entirely possible. Jackie here in the studio wants me to tell everybody that the teen girl in question

did win Homecoming Queen. Am I supposed to be impressed with the fact that she cheated? She and her mother cheated her way to Homecoming Queen? I don't think that's going to stand. I think there's going to be a recall. And I don't want to even say voter fraud right now. But what these parents, the lengths they will go to, back to you, Glenn Bard, retired Pennsylvania State Trooper First Class and expert in computer crime investigations. Glenn, just explain for the novices joining us how a vote, for instance, can be traced back to a, quote, IP address.

Well, what they mentioned, the IP address, that IP address is an Internet protocol, and it will identify basically the router or your access point to the Internet. When that vote would take place, anything you do, you send an email, you access a website, whatever it does, that server basically takes a stamp of your IP address.

You mean like your wi-fi for instance um series xm wi-fi or fox nation wi-fi it shows that or your specific device well it's going to show when what's going to happen is between behind that firewall that that router is going to be all the individual devices they'll have their own internal private IP, but they all communicate with one thing, which is going to be that router, which goes outside world. It's kind of like the same thing of your office. If I call into the main number, you're going to have different extensions behind it. That one main number can go to different extensions. And that's what that IP does.

That IP will be the IP of that gateway, that router. And then behind it, you'll have different internal IP addresses. But the thing about it is that what's going to happen, that IP they'll see, they'll see the external or public IP address. It comes back to a location, a person's house, your guys' studios, my forensic lab. It'll go back to that. And then once you get to that location, a person's house, your guys' studios, my forensic lab. It'll go back to that. And then once you get to that location, you can actually examine that router and identify all the devices that are inside that network. And what will happen is a good forensic examination will even tell us exactly which one of those devices happens to be the one making these votes by looking at different web histories and, you know, the archived data and artifacts on that device. So it's basically kind of like, again, looking at

the main number to your studios and then devices behind their extensions. But instead, they are public versus private IP addresses. Well, you know, criminal defense attorney Ken Belkin, you put somebody like Glenn Bard or Joe Scott Morgan on the stand, this lady doesn't have a chance. But I want to point out that court records that have been obtained suggest that the daughter, Spohn's daughter, did not know what her mom was doing as of right now. Of course, these two moms, the assistant principal and Spohn, allegedly aren't the only ones. Take a listen to our friends at ABC. Megan was just shy of her 14th birthday when what seemed to be a budding online relationship with a boy calling himself Josh Evans ended badly. What's going on there?

My daughter. Hey, calm down. What is going on there? My daughter just hung herself. Hey, calm down. What is going on there? My daughter just hung herself. OK. The tragedy was compounded when it was learned that the cyber friendship that drove her to hang herself had been a hoax.

Other kids posing as a fictitious boy. The sense of outrage deepened when one of the young participants in the hoax came forward. She told us she had information that it was Lori Drew who created this MySpace account along with her 18-year-old employee and her daughter. Lori Drew was not another preteen, but the mother of a girl who lived down the street.

So what happened is this little girl, Megan Meyer, 13 years old, thought she had a boyfriend online. And it was all just a big lie. It wasn't real. And then she was cyberbullied. And the little girl, God rest her soul, and God be with her family, hung herself. It turned out the little boy was fictitious, created by mean girls and a mom. And now we have this woman, Raffaella Spohn. I mean, it's one thing, bad enough to send deep fakes of a teen girl naked vaping. That's bad enough. But to suggest she commits suicide? We wait as justice unfolds.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.