Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Child killer Susan Smith's prison mischief & Florida police say they caught a 'killer clown'

Episode Date: September 29, 2017

Susan Smith has been misbehaving in a South Carolina prison, where she is serving a life sentence for murdering of her 2 young sons, according to People magazine's Steve Helling. Helling joins Nancy Grace,reporter Mary Ellen Hopkins, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and co-host Alan Duke to discuss how Smith's causing trouble behind bar. Grace also puts out the alert for missing LSU student Michael Nickelotte Jr., who vanished from his campus apartment on September 18. Florida investigators believe they have solved the mystery of who dressed up as a clown to shoot Marlene Warren 27 years ago. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. leads in this riveting new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray, Saturdays, 7, 6 Central and 9, 8 Central on Oxygen, the new network for crime. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Notorious Susan Smith, the woman who drowned her two little boys in 1994. She's been no angel in prison. Life hasn't been easy for Susan Smith behind bars. She's been disciplined for having had sex with two different corrections officers. The guards both lost their jobs. Smith, now 46, looks much different today than when the world came to know her 23 years ago when she claimed she'd been carjacked with her two boys still in the vehicle.

Whoever has my children, that they please, please bring them home. She later confessed to rolling the car into a lake with the boys still strapped in their car seats. In this letter, Susan Smith wrote, I am not the monster society thinks I am. I want to say to my babies that your mama loves you so much and your daddy, this whole family loves you so much and you guys have got to be strong. That was Susan Smith begging for the return of her children. Her two little boys, Michael, three, Alex is 14 months, according to her, stolen by a man, basically a carjacker. And she was desperate. That was a

public plea for their return. It was only learned later that Susan Smith, the mother, had strapped her two little children into the family car and rolled it into a lake as they screamed for their mother. She stood at the dock and saw the cart go underwater as she heard her boys scream, just three years old and 14 months, disappear. And now, child killer Susan Smith makes the headlines again. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. It just never ends with this woman. Joining me from People Magazine, Steve Helling. Steve Helling, thank you for being with us. I read your article. It was awesome. Let's talk about Susan Smith. A life of sex, drugs, infractions, STDs, one thing after the next.

What's happening? How can all this go down behind bars? I don't know, Nancy, but I can tell you that it is going on behind bars. and she's getting in trouble again and again and again. And it's everything from possession and use of narcotics or marijuana to cutting herself to. OK, wait, right, right there. Hold on just a moment. You know, when I would visit the jail to speak to witnesses or find witnesses. They'd practically strip search me. I had to hand over every single thing, take off my jewelry, take off my shoes. That's when I still was carrying a briefcase everywhere. Open up my briefcase, I'd sort through it.

I was an assistant district attorney for Pete's sake. Exactly. How in the hay is she getting marijuana behind bars? Hey, she got something else behind bars. A sexually transmitted disease, STD. She didn't have that going in. Isn't it true, Steve Helling, that not one but two prison guards have been sentenced to a crime for sex with Susan Smith? The child killer?

Boy, that's sexy. 100% true. Both of them were fired. What's wrong with me and Alan Duke? You know a woman is a two-time killer. Boy, that's sexy. A hundred percent true. Both of them were fired. What's wrong with me and Alan Duke? You know, a woman is a two-time killer, a child killer, but they still want to have sex with her. Are they crazy? Yeah, we think sometimes with other parts of our body, it makes no sense. I grew out of that. Never mind. Go ahead, Steve Helling. I'm sure your wife is happy to hear that. Steve Helling, can I get back to you? With me, Steve Helling, ahead I'm sure your wife is happy to hear that Steve Helling can I get back to you with me Steve Helling People Magazine who takes a lid off the life Susan Smith is

leaving behind bars I mean isn't it true Steve Helling gee I feel like I've got you on a chair on cross-exam I'm just having a field day isn't it true Helling, that the staff at the CI, Correctional Institute, have been warned, do not let a man alone in the room with Susan Smith like she's a wild tiger? As a hundred percent. I mean, you can't, they've been told she can't be alone with a man in a room. What? That's a hundred percent true because they say that, you know, she's a risk. She will apparently have sex with clearly anybody and she's doing it behind bars. And it's a crime when these, when these guys have sex with her. I mean, they've spent, they've done jail time because of it. So yeah. As they should. Yes. She has sex with prison guards, including Houston Cagle,

who was later jailed for three months for the affair and a prison captain, Alfred Rowe, who got probation. It was discovered she had sex relations with Cagle after Smith tests positive for an STD. I mean, aren't there cameras everywhere? Well, didn't you see El Chapo? We saw him almost to the last minute when he seemingly disappeared into his commode. But what? How's this happening happening and nobody's catching it? Well, you know, these guards, they know where they can be and where they can't be. They know where the cameras are, Nancy. They know where they can have some privacy.

And so, you know, obviously, if they find somebody willing and Susan Smith, they, for whatever reason, have decided to go and do that. Which, you know, look, I'm not saying that prison guards are the ones who are giving her drugs in prison. We don't know. We have no idea how she's getting them. But, you know, one sure way to make sure you're getting preferential treatment is to be having sex with the guards. And we know she's done it before.

Who knows if she's doing it again? But is it worth it? OK, I got to tell you guys a funny story. With me is Mary Ellen Hopkins, Crime Stories investigative reporter. Steve Helling from People Magazine. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, death scene investigator, and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. And the Duke, Alan Duke, joining me from LA.

And here in the studio, producer Jackie Howard. Hold on, guys. Just a moment. I've got to tell you a funny story. All right. So I tried all my cases solo except for my investigator, Ernest. But on one case, a very good friend of mine in the courthouse, in the DA's office, Herman Sloan, who is now a judge. And I love him then and I love him now now and he was one of the very few people that I really if he said it I believed it so I could ask him a question if I needed to and I would

you know be pretty sure he knew the answer so we were in court I was trying a case and Herman was there as an expert for some reason he was was sitting beside me at council table. The trial was ongoing and somebody had a newspaper and it was sitting there and I saw it. I looked at the picture. I'm like, Herman, where were you when these children went missing? Because she gives this composite picture and the picture looked just like Herman Sloan it looked just like my trial partner who was now a judge he looked at it just died laughing so she rolls her children in strapped in a car seat into the water and then she blames an unknown black man okay more Herman was saying I said Herman do you know this guy and he looked it, and we both just died laughing.

I mean, then at first when she gave the public plea, Steve, for a second it was convincing. But when her story came out, that at, I guess it was at a red light or a stop sign, basically in the middle of nowhere, and I can say the middle of nowhere because I grew up in the middle of nowhere. And I can say the middle of nowhere because I grew up in the middle of nowhere. We were not even in a city. We were in unincorporated Bibb County outside of Macon, Georgia with nothing but, you could see nothing but soybeans and pine trees. Out there at a stop sign, an unknown man rushes up to her car, carjacks it with the children inside and makes off and the car's never seen again anywhere.

It's just such a load of BS. That's a technical legal term, Steve Howey. Well, you know, and the thing that was crazy about that is that the way she described it couldn't possibly have happened based on the red light cycles and that type of thing. So not only was the story. Wait, tell me that. Tell me that. Tell me that. She said she was stopped at a red light and that while she was stopped at that red light, this man comes and kidnaps her kids. The problem is you can't be stopped at that red. That light

only turned red if there was traffic coming the other way and there wasn't traffic coming the other way. So she had a green light there if she was even there in the first place. And once cops realized that, they thought, well, none of this story, it didn't make sense in the first place. And now we can prove it. Steve Helling, now I know that you're this fancy People Magazine writer, but I'm just a plain old trial lawyer. Could you explain that one more time about the red light? Sure. I think I may be able to use this in the future to figure out if I can run a green or yellow light. You're telling me the light didn't turn red unless cars were coming the other way? Well, you know, these lights, you know, traffic lights often have sensors that they stay green unless there's some reason for them to turn red.

And so in order for that light to have turned red, there had to be cross traffic coming the other way at the intersection. And there wasn't. She said that, no, there, you know, there was nobody around. There were no witnesses. Nobody could see it. And if she had been at a red light,

by definition, there would be traffic coming the other way. And they would have seen this alleged kidnapping with this alleged black man who stole her kids. And nobody saw it because quite frankly, it never happened. Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again,

Steve Helen, you're brilliant. Okay. Joseph scott morgan death scene investigator joe scott you heard all that yes now i know your mind is just firing on all cylinders a mile 100 miles a minute at the time when she was crying and i was looking at her there was something not right remember the husband was just standing there, and I couldn't put my finger on it, but I believed her. And then when her full story came out right then, I remember looking at my trial partner again and saying,

I just want you to know, Herman, I'm on your side. I think you're totally innocent, okay, because I think she's lying. She's totally lying about this. The whole story does not make sense. So, Joe Scott, let's talk about the discovery of the little boy's bodies. I've been joking around about my trial partner and him being a judge now. But what this is really about, although Susan Smith is living it up behind bars, having sex and love letters and e-mails.

This is about 3-year-old Michael and 14-month-old Alex. Let's talk about the discovery of the body, what this case is really about. To hay with her. I want to talk about that. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. After she had led all of the investigators, and not just the investigators, Nancy,

the general public on this wild goose chase. You remember this. You know, it was just goose chase. You remember this, you know, just day after day after day of, you know, uh, uh, just carrying on on the news. She had the, the infamous news conference, please bring my babies back, all this sort of thing. Everybody's out beating the bush, searching for these kids. Well, the cops got onto this and they realized that something wasn't right. Turns out they found these poor little babies strapped in their car seats, almost 60 feet away from the edge of the boat ramp out in the middle of the lake, totally submerged.

And they had no way to escape as their mother placed her car in gear and allowed that car to go down the ramp. You could hear these babies screaming as they're restrained in the backseat. Can you imagine this? Mama, mama, come and help me. Come and help me. How she could stand on the shore and listen to this is just absolutely beyond the pale. Let's talk a little bit about what they went through. For the moment, those moments of terror, they sat there strapped in those seats, cars filling up with water, windows are down.

And suddenly, they had this presence of mind to understand that mama's not going to come to save us. Their little lungs are filling up with water. And they sit there strapped in these seats, and they essentially drown. It's a horrible way to die, and to die completely hopeless, devoid of hope that your mother, who is supposed to be taking care of you, is ever going to come and save you. And that's the terror that's lost in all of this. You know, all of this stuff that she's engaged in, she still has this freedom, even within the constraints of the correctional facility. And to make it worse, the correctional facility personnel have been facilitating some of this behavior. I want to go back to the murder of the little boys. I'm tired of thinking about Susan Smith getting it on with prison guards. I want to go back to the murder of the little boys. I'm tired of thinking about Susan Smith getting it on with prison guards. I want to go back to the little boys.

I was just thinking about this morning when I took the children to school. And when I drove off, I always have in my mind Kyron Horman. You all are familiar with the little boy that seemingly disappeared after his stepmother dropped him off and he went into the school fair, science fair. I always wait. They don't know it, of course. I don't want them to know mommy's a stalker. But I always wait and look in the rearview mirror and hold up traffic until I see them walk in. I wonder if she still thinks about them. You know, Mary Ellen Hopkins, investigative reporter, we know the motive. We know why she murdered her two little boys, age 3 and 14 months. What was the motive, Mary Ellen?

Susan Smith was in her 20s, and she was secretly dating a man who didn't want children. So her decision was to kill her two little boys. And like you said, this whole story, it was heart-wrenching at the time. She took us through so many levels of emotions with her crying and her stories and her on-camera interviews. But it's really all about these two sweet, innocent souls who lost their life because mommy wanted to date someone who didn't like children. I'm going to listen one more time to Susan Smith begging for the return of her children. Hey, I mean, they've got people everywhere looking for them. I mean, you know, you can hear the helicopters that they're in, but they haven't seen anything. And it's just, it's crazy. And

it's been since nine o'clock last night. And I really thought that when it got daylight, they would find them just in a heartbeat. But all I'm doing is just praying and just keeping my faith that they're going to be okay. But what did Susan Smith's husband think at the time? Did he have any idea his wife was dating one of the richest guys in town, son? Did he even know? Did he suspect? I remember looking at him during all the press conferences and the press and the media frenzy as it unfolded during the search for the two little boys and wondering what was going through

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So you realized in one fell swoop that they had been killed. I heard. And Susan Smith, your wife, had done the deed at once, just like that. Just like that. What did you do? Gave up. Gave up. I ran first. I just wanted to run, and I ran. You ran where? Just out in the yard. You ran out the door? Yeah, I had to go. Just had to go. Where did you run to? I don't know. I just ran. I don't remember.

In your street clothes? Yeah. I just had to go. Just had to run. Did you go to the jail? No. No. When did you see her again? It was about a month later, after she had been arrested. What did she say, David? She said she was sorry. I mean, mostly that's what we talked about was Michael and Alex.

I mean, I did ask her why she did it, but... And what did she say? She didn't know. When you look back, David, do you blame yourself? Do you think there were indicators or red flags you should have seen but didn't? No, I don't blame myself. I mean, Susan, you know, she was confident. She was, you know, in sound mind. It seemed to be.

Yeah, I mean, you know, in some ways a lot of people want to say she had to be crazy. And I think they say that figuratively speaking. But not legally. Right, but not legally she was. You know, just recently, out to Alan Duke, joining me out of L.A., Susan Smith writes a letter in which she says, I'm not a monster. Newsflash, yes, you are.

What else did her letter say, Alan? It was a short, handwritten prison letter to a reporter in South Carolina, the state newspaper. She says not only is she not a monster, she says it's frustrating, to say the least. I am not a monster the society thinks I am. I'm far from it. Something went very wrong that night. I was not myself. I was a good mother, and I love my boys.

The thing that hurts me the most is that people think I hurt my children in order to be with a man that is so far from the truth. There was no motive as it was not even a planned event. I was not in my right mind. So what hurts her the most is that people think she did it for a love affair, a sex affair. So what people think of her is what hurts her the most. Okay, Steve Helling, People Magazine investigative reporter. Let's weigh in. Who is Susan Smith? Who is she? Because I think she is a monster. Well, you know, if you listen to what the warden says, you know, he said she's just never been able to turn the corner and become a productive member of society. And there are people in jail who make a complete 180 and change their lives. And we all know of stories like that. And unfortunately, Susan Smith doesn't seem to be one of them.

You know, from all things that she's doing, she certainly hasn't shown any signs of rehabilitation. Okay, hold on. Let me understand this. So there are multiple sex affairs with prison guards. They have been criminally prosecuted for that. There's even a ban on male guards being alone with her which i think there should be i i actually don't know that i believe there should be male guards and a women's ci but that's a whole nother

can of worms but there is a ci correctional institute ban on susan smith being alone with a man in the entire facility all right i know she does dope behind bars, whatever she can get her mitts on, including pills and marijuana. And I really don't know what else I know of those two. I know in her mind, Joseph Scott Morgan, that she believes she is somehow the one that's been wronged, slandered and libeled because people believe her motive for double murder of her babies was to get this rich kid's son to marry her, which I still believe to this day, Joe Scott. Well, I contend that there is a daddy out there who is absent two precious little babies that would probably beg to differ on that topic.

Don't you believe? I think that somebody else was done wrong. The world was robbed of these two little lives. And she's still got her life, doesn't she? And she can be involved in any kind of debauchery she chooses to be in, in the correctional facility that she's in. These kids will never have a shot. Father will never have an opportunity to take care of those kids, has never had an opportunity to take care of those kids. Grandparents have never

been with them. And not just that, let's look at a bigger idea here. She tried to pin this on some random African-American male. She tried to say that this guy that had carjacked her was a black male, took the the car and it led to outrage in the african-american community and outrage on my part as well because of all the people she could name she blames an unknown african-american male you're absolutely right. And it just, you know, and it stirs the pot in that community. So that scar is left and all because of her, her just her, you know, I mean, hubris, I don't know. I don't want to use the word selfishness because it goes, it goes beyond that with this person. It's, it's the single most just self-centered act that anyone

could possibly commit in to my way of thinking, because at the time, I was working still as an investigator with the medical examiner in Atlanta, and we watched this case. And it just gave me a bad feeling from the beginning else in the community like this and how she had led everyone astray in this. It's just absolutely heartbreaking. I'm interested in what she wrote. Steve Helling joined me from People magazine. Quote, something went very wrong that night. I was not myself. what is that supposed to mean? Because I guarantee you, Steve Howling, if there had been any remote chance at a mental defect defense, they would have done it. I mean, it would have worked.

Right. You know, that to me is just a cliche that people say, oh, I wasn't myself when I did something horrible. Well, yeah, you were. You were yourself when you did it. And this might be a part of yourself you don't like to think about. But, you know, like you said, if there had been a mental defect, if there had been an insanity defense, we would have seen that. And there never was. Or it would have worked. It would have worked if that had been for real.

Her story quickly fell apart and became unraveled. And there was no African-American man at the red light. Okay. That didn't happen. Steve Helling has explained to you exactly why we know that that's not true. That's not how that particular red light worked. It was on a sensor. If a car or movement was coming the other way, it would turn red. That didn't happen. It was all a big lie. And now she's living it up at Leith Correctional Institute in Greenwood, South Carolina. Drugs, sex, alleged self-mutilation. I just keep looking back at the picture of the little boys. Alan Duke, isn't it true in the letter letter she claims she was really trying to kill herself,

but whoopsie, somehow she managed to murder her two boys instead and then lie about it? Well, yes, she does say that she planned suicide. She knew the truth would come out, she said, so she lied because she didn't want to face the world about what had really happened. I planned to kill myself first and then leave a note telling what happened. I don't believe I could face my family when the truth was revealed. You know, she is coming up for parole, believe it or not, in just a few years. She is coming up for parole. Think of all the lives that she has ruined.

She's ruined, of course, her children's life, her husband's life, probably that guy she was. She's ruined, of course, her children's life, her husband's life, probably that guy she was dating his life, all of her relatives and family. The men that had sex relationships with her behind bars now have convictions. I don't know if you have any future in law enforcement with a conviction of that sort, especially under your belt. And this lie, Steve Helling, People Magazine, that she planned to kill herself first and leave a note. How was that supposed to work out? Kill herself first when the first thing she did was murder her children. She never even tried to kill herself. That's the thing about Susan Smith. Her stories never make a lot of sense. And, you know, the bottom line is she had an estranged husband at the time who would have been more than happy to take care of these kids while she went off

and was with this other guy that, you know, she could have been the bad guy, but not a murderer, but she chose not to do that. And so, you know, her saying, I wanted to kill myself, it doesn't make any sense. It will never make any sense. Well, another thing she said to Mary Ellen Hopkins, investigative reporter, she also says she made up the lie about the unknown man at the red light in the carjacking to, quote, protect the boys loved ones, not to shield herself. What? That doesn't even make sense, Mary Ellen. No, it doesn't. And that's the whole thing with this whole story. It's always about her. She killed her two little boys, but it's all about her. She's the one who's suffering. People don't understand her. She was a good mother. She loved them. So it's never about them.

It's always about her. She is always the victim. I believe they call that a narcissist who thinks only of themselves after the myth of Narcissus who fell in love with his own reflection in the water. We also have learned, Steve Helling, that she has pen pals and they send her thousands of dollars behind bars. What about that, Steve Helling? Well, you know what? Look at her recent mugshot and look at the glamour that she has. I mean, she's wearing makeup. Her hair looks terrific. She looks way better than she looked in the 90s because she's living a pretty good life behind bars.

If you look at all the things that she's doing, she's doing stuff that the rest of us don't do. So I think that it's interesting to see her transformation and watch her become this hardened criminal. You know, I don't know how she can say that the other man, Tom Finley, was not the motive because by almost all accounts, the story really starts when she starts dating Tom Finley. They have an affair, and he actually breaks up. He breaks up with her, and in a letter, he states he does not want children. That's on October 17.

On October 25, she drowns Michael and Alex. She eases off a lake boat, ramp releases the emergency brake and then tells police she was carjacked by a man who drove off with the boys then she and her husband infamously appear on national tv where she cries and snots and begs for the boys return that's what happened that's what happened so how can she say now joseph scott morgan that was not the motive it was just a couple of days after he says i'm breaking up with you i don't want children that presto the children are gone she can't uh you know she's she's trying to crawfish on this thing uh and i think that that goes back to to your you know your your earlier comment about narcissism with this person.

It's always going to change to suit her perception of reality. And at the end of the day, the reality is that we have two dead children who were specifically in her care during this period of time in the care of the person that in this world out of all the people it was the one person that was supposed to guarantee their safety at all times and you know um it just it the dog doesn't hunt with me if you if you catch my meaning uh she uh all along it seems like she just kind of haphazardly goes along trying to trying to justify her actions. And this is continuing on in prison as well. Steve Howling, it won't be long before she is up for parole. Today, her boys would be 23, just getting out of college and probably going to grad school or starting their first job, and 26,

young men in the prime of their lives. That was not to be Steve Helling. Right. And the thing is that I was afraid that she would, when parole comes, that there would be a chance of her getting parole. But her actions in jail certainly make it look as though that's unlikely. And I hope that everybody involved realizes that she's exactly where she needs to be right now. Before we go any further, Alan Duke, what's the latest on the missing LSU student, Michael Nicolaut? Michael Nicolaut Jr. disappeared from his LSU campus apartment in Baton Rouge, Louisiana on September 18th. The Nicolot family's concerned that campus police are treating the 21-year-old as a voluntary runaway case, but they say he would never leave. He was, as they say, straight as an arrow. They fear instead something bad has

happened to him. Michael was an ROTC student. He wanted to be a Marine Corps officer. You can read details and see Michael's photo on our CrimeOnline.com website. Anyone with information regarding this missing LSU student, please call LSU Police 225-578-3231. This boy's family is begging for help. A white Chrysler LeBaron pulls into the driveway of a South Florida home. A clown gets out holding balloons and flowers and marches up to the front door. When Marlene Warren opens the door pleasantly surprised, reaches out for the flowers for her, instead of a beautiful bouquet of roses, she gets a bullet to the face and dies. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. That's right. Marlene Warren shot in the face by a clown. It's almost too bizarre to believe, but that is exactly what happened. And now, 27 years later, and the risk goes down. Amazing. Joining me, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. Mary Ellen Hopkins, crime stories investigative reporter. And, of course, Alan Duke joining me out of LA. So to Mary Ellen Hopkins,

investigative reporter. Mary Ellen, thank you for being with us. Explain to me this arrest of a woman. A woman is allegedly dressed as a clown, a killer clown, complete with white face makeup, an orange wig, an entire clown outfit. And now, all these years later, a woman, Sheila Keene Warren, is arrested for first-degree murder in the shooting death of Marlene Warren. What happened? Well, Nancy, it was a love triangle murder. You had a husband, a lover, and an ex-wife. Sheila Warren, the killer, shot Marlene Warren, the former wife,

in the face at her home in an upscale neighborhood in West Palm Beach, Florida. You know, it's almost too much to take in. This is what we know. Sheila Keene Warren, now 54 years old, arrested on a charge of murder one with the use of a firearm and the murder of Marlene Warren, the first wife of Michael Warren. Now, at the front door was a woman with brown eyes carrying balloons, wearing a clown costume with an orange wig. May 26, people saw the white car pull up in the driveway and the clown get out. The husband, Michael Warren, was initially investigated. Friends and family said the two had been having marital problems. But now all these years later, a killer clown female arrested for allegedly shooting dead a woman at her front door carrying flowers and balloons over 27 years ago.

Thousands and thousands of man hours have been sunk into the case over the years. Washington County Sheriff Fred Newman says that it was one of the strangest cases he had ever seen. I'm looking at shots right now. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, death investigator and forensics professor. I'm looking at Michael Warren with his wife, Marlene, at the time. They look so happy together. But after her murder, he seemingly disappears, drops off the map, only to reemerge around 2002 to marry his then mistress. They were having an affair at the time his wife was murdered by a clown.

It's amazing how these cases will track off in these odd directions, and no one seems to pay attention in the immediate. And it takes all of these years later for the truth to kind of rise to the top in this particular case. And the fact that they have resolved this case after this many years is amazing. That's the reason they're called cold cases. Most of the time, cold cases remain cold cases. You know, I'm looking at this picture of them, and I really don't understand it. Mary Ellen Hopkins, investigative reporter, they seem so happy at the time. What do we know about their relationship? Well, there were rumors, Nancy, that the couple was having some marital issues, but nothing was ever made clear what was going on. There were also rumors

that Michael Warren was having an affair with Sheila Warren. She worked for him at his business, and they would take long lunches together. So there was a lot of undercurrent there going on, but nothing that I guess anyone could ever pinpoint. Let's go through the facts as we know them. Out to Alan Duke. Let's analyze what we know at the time. What did we learn at the time regarding the shooting? It was 11 o'clock in the morning in this really nice residential area. It's called the Arrow Club Community. They've actually got a landing strip instead of just a cul-de-sac in this neighborhood. And the homes were like million-dollar homes. So this clown knocks on the door, pulls up in a Chrysler LeBaron that doesn't have a license plate, carries a bouquet of flowers and two balloons, one of them

with Snow White's picture on it. So it looked like it was a fun gift that was coming to the door. But instead, when this woman opened up the door, that's when she was killed, a gun down. And there were witnesses, the teenage sons of the victim, as well as friends were there to see it. And nobody even knew if it was a... Wait, are you telling me the son? No, the teenage kids of the victim were there. That's what I'm saying. They saw their mom get killed. I didn't realize that part. Yes, but they couldn't even tell if this clown was a man or a woman. That's how bizarre the clown makeup was. It was Memorial Day weekend in the Palm Beach

County suburb of Wellington when this whole thing goes down and immediately a massive investigation started. When I'm looking at the woman who's just been arrested all this time later, she's actually smiling. She's seemingly laughing in her mugshot. I don't get it. Joseph Scott Morgan,

you and I have seen a lot of crimes, but to smile in your mugshot when you've just been charged with murder one? Maybe she doesn't. Maybe she's of the opinion that they're not going to be able to pin this on her. Of course, she apparently likes clowns, so maybe she's really happy. I don't know, but it is very, very bizarre. And you'll see people that react. You'll see people that react to these traumatic events like being arrested many times with almost a flippant nature about them. I don't know that they know what else to do. Well, this is what I know about the husband. He has not been named a suspect, But I know this about him. A few years before this, he was sentenced

to prison on 43 counts of odometer tampering, grand theft, racketeering. After digging done by investigations on the murder, they found foul play at his car rental agency and that's according to Palm Beach Post. So this guy is not lily white. His hands aren't totally clean but he has never been roped in on his wife's murder. Another thing Alan Duke about the facts that's where I always start with the timeline and the facts as you know them at the time of the murder. The clown calmly turns around and walks back to the car. Yeah, this was obviously well thought out, and this killer, if it was this woman, was very calm. Drove the car to the airport and left the car there,

which later it was found at the Palm Beach International Airport Park, sort of to suggest that this clown flew out of town, but probably didn't. So do you believe then, Alan Duke, let's analyze the car. So the car is left near the airport to give the suggestion the killer flew out of town. Yes, and it had no license plates. It was a Chrysler LeBaron, which basically for me is a throwaway car. I mean, I would leave that one behind. But yeah, just no connection to her and the car that they knew of. And so that was actually a pretty well thought out crime. Let me think about that. The car left at the airport to give the appearance the perp flew

out of town. The fact that the perp walked calmly back to the car after the shooting, no running, no nothing. This was clearly, in my mind, a planned out, intentional killing. Well, it had to be because you don't walk around in a clown outfit and full-on white clown makeup, the grease paint on your face. It had to be planned to shoot this particular person. There was no theft. There was no sex attack. There was not even a break-in. This all went down right at the front porch. So that leads me to today. All these years pass. There's never

an arrest. Can you even imagine how the children feel when their mom is murdered and nothing ever comes of it? There's never an arrest. It's just a long, long investigation that seemingly fizzles. You grow up with your mom gone and no justice until recently. Until recently, this is what we've learned. Some type of DNA, a newly developed DNA technique, has been used. It was not available in the 90s when mom was murdered. I'm betting it was either nano-enhancement, which is a brand new DNA technique, or either CRISPR, another new DNA technique that was used. I'm wondering also where they got the DNA, Joe Scott Morgan. Where did they get it?

They don't have the murder weapon, so they didn't get it off the murder weapon. Was there DNA on the flowers? Was there a thorn on a rose? Was there something on the balloon? Was there something on the flowers? Was there a thorn on a rose? Was there something on the balloon? Was there something in the car? Where did they get the DNA, Joe Scott? Because all these years later, they still had the substance from which the DNA was derived. But where did it come from, Joe Scott?

That's a great question, Nancy. And this goes to the competency of the investigators at the time that handled the case because they were able to preserve whatever this evidence that they had. They were able to preserve this and then run a profile in order to facilitate this building of this evidence. We have a principle in forensics that is stated. It is stated that every contact leaves a trace. Now, just because we can't find it immediately doesn't mean that it can't be found down the road. And isn't it interesting that now in the times in which we live, we're finding more and more of these cases that are being solved from the distant past. This is just one more that we can chalk up. The Cole case was reopened in 2014 when new technology allowed prosecutors to retest DNA evidence,

as of right now, as of this moment, it has not been revealed from where the DNA came. But we do know this. It clearly implicated the husband's mistress at the time, Sheila Keene, who years later he marries. She's now Sheila Keene Warren, the 54-year-old woman taken into custody. What do you think about this? Mary Ellen Hopkins, Crime Stories investigative reporter, you think they're going to try to get her, the defendant, Sheila Keene Warren,

the so-called other woman back in the 90s, to turn state's evidence, if there is any, against the victim's husband, now her husband? You know, the parents of the victim had always suspected that the husband also had some kind of a hand in it, especially when they found out years later that he married the woman that killed his wife. So they think there's a connection there. And a retired sheriff's detective who spoke with the media said that they tried so hard to, they presented the case over and over. And every time they came forward, they would tell them, go back and get more. They need more. So now they have more. They have the DNA. You know what, too, I just want to add in, I'm looking at the

Sun Sentinel and the questions remain why investigators who gathered a mountain of evidence were not able to make an arrest. And among them are employees from a store less than a mile from Keene Warren's home identified her as the woman who bought the flowers and balloons about 90 minutes before the killing. And if he's involved, with that smile on her face in her mugshot, maybe she will turn evidence on him. Nancy, let's listen to the police press conference after Sheila Warren's arrest in Virginia this week. An Abington, Virginia woman has been arrested and charged with a 27-year-old capital murder case that originated out of Palm Beach County, Florida. The Washington County, Virginia Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigative Division received

information from the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office that they had obtained information linking Sheila Keene Warren of Abington, Virginia to the 1990 homicide of Marlene Warren. At approximately 5 30 this afternoon members of the Washington County Virginia Sheriff's Office, along with members of the United States Marshal Service, Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, and the Palm Beach State Attorney's Office, arrested 54-year-old Sheila Keene Warren. She's been charged with first-degree murder with the firearm of Marlena Warren. She's been transported to the Abington facility of the Southwest Virginia Regional Jail in Abington, where she is awaiting extradition back to Palm Beach County, Florida. The suspect or the arrestee walked up to the front door

with balloons in her hand. The deceased victim came to the front door and was shot at that location. Guys, we're standing by because right now I don't think justice has been served. We now have finally an arrest in the murder of this mom. This mom, Marlene Warren, who simply answers the front door and is shot in the face. You know, it brings to mind the Buttafuoco case where she was shot. That was by her husband's lover. Remember? Is this ringing a bell to anybody? She lived to tell the tale. Yeah, she lived to tell the tale in the so-called Long Island Lolita. Wasn't that her, Alan? Yes.

So this is not the first time that an assassin has shown up with a gift. Okay, it goes all the way back to the Trojan horse. But in this case, it's flowers and balloons. We still don't know the whole story, and that's what I'm waiting on. What I fear is because this is a cold case and so much time has passed, there may not be enough evidence, according to prosecutors, to take it to trial. I disagree. I disagree. You can't fight with DNA.

We're waiting to see if any more arrests go down, if anyone else knew about the murder before it occurred. But for now, we're waiting for justice to unfold. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. just like you, to talk motives and alibis with. If so, join the CrimeCon Cold Case Club and work alongside experts and fellow crime sleuths to help uncover new leads and theories in the cold cases they adopt. Their first cold case focuses on the mysterious disappearance of nursing student Mara Murray in 2004, and it's free to join thanks to Oxygen.

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