Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cigarette Burns, Lux Rides & Penthouse Apartments; Depp v. Heard: Round 2

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

Testimony for Johnny Depp's legal team wrapping up this week.  Amber Heard is expected to take the stand in the next couple days to defend herself from Depp's accusations of defamation.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Darryl Cohen - Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, Defense Attorney, Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC, www.ccealaw.com Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA www.angelaarnoldmd.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital  John Guard - Chief Deputy – Pitt County Sheriff’s Office (Greenville, NC), Specializes in Investigating Domestic Violence Cases Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard. It's still going. Yes, in a court of law. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111.

Captain Jack Sparrow's side is still giving it 200%. In the last hours, a security guard, Travis McGivern on the stand, now a talent manager, and it goes on and on and on. But I want you to take a listen to Our Cut 27. This is witness Tara Roberts. What happened after they went back out to the house? CJ and I were still in the office and weren't really sure, decided that maybe it would be best if we just drove up there just to make sure that everything was okay. You could hear them inside the house yelling, Amber yelling and Johnny answering back. And you could really hear what was being said.

We stood there for a couple minutes, CJ and myself, and then you started to hear, it became audible, Amber was telling him that he was a washed up actor, he was gonna die a fat, lonely old man. Then you heard, you hit me with a can. You heard Johnny say, you hit me with a can. You know, when I put witnesses on the stand or cross-examine witnesses the other side had brought, I would always look for detail. Is their story rich in detail? Do they mention things they likely wouldn't dream up? Like, then it started raining.

Or, it suddenly got cloudy. Or, I heard a car screech brakes. And then, just the way a description is given. You know what is interesting to me about Tara Roberts' testimony on the stand is that she says at first you could hear yelling. You could tell that it was Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. And then suddenly it became audible in that I can make out the words. Amber Heard was telling Depp he was a, quote, washed up actor going to die a fat, lonely old man. And then I heard, quote, you hit me with a can. Depp said, you hit me with a can.

The way she described that sequence is very telling to me because of the detail involved. When you're making up a story, very often you don't hear that kind of detail. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. The Depp trial is raging. Is Captain Jack Sparrow in trouble? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. Daryl Cohen, high-profile lawyer joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com.

John Gard, chief deputy at the Pitt County Sheriff's Office Office specializing in domestic violence cases. But first, to Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter on the case from the very beginning. Alexis, what has been happening today in court? Give me a rundown. So Johnny Depp's side is still testifying. He is still presenting his case.

This morning, we have had his security guard, Travis McGinnis, and he is talking about a big fight and that there's been testimony. And Amber has said that her sister stepped in between Johnny and Amber during a fight. And the security guard said that is not true. The sister was not in between them because I was in between them. And he is the security guard that was his security guard for many, many years. So he is once again shooting down Amber's claims of what happened during all of these fights. And she brought her sister into it, who was there at the time.

And Johnny's side, the security guard is saying, nope, that isn't true. Here is what really happened. I was there. I was the one in the middle of it. Trying to make sure that Johnny and Amber weren't going to fight with each other. And notably, now, you have to consider the source. When you're listening to testimony by

a long time Johnny Depp security guard, who is clearly Depp's friend, but also makes his living off Depp as a security guard. Does that mean he's not telling the truth? No, but you always look for a pecuniary or money interest or any interest whatsoever when a witness is testifying to determine credibility. So, what he is saying, this Travis McGivern, is that Amber Heard punched Depp on the left side of his face. Which I would wonder, is she right-handed?

To punch somebody, if you're right-handed, you'll normally land the blow on their left side of the face. But she is not being tried for abusing him. The trial right now is to determine, was she telling the truth when she said she had been abused by Depp? Now, to you, Daryl Cohen, joining me, longtimevern, Travis McGivern, is stating that Amber's sister's account was wrong. But to my knowledge, Amber's sister has not testified. Maybe she was brought up in opening statements by the defense, which could open the door. But you've got to go through a lot of legal hurdles to impeach someone's testimony that hasn't testified. Nancy, this is a great trial. I love it. Nobody's going to go to prison. Nobody's going to be acquitted or convicted. It's just about money. And it's a

soap opera. It's Hollywood coming from Los Angeles to Virginia. Wouldn't you love to be a juror on this trial? You'll write a book. It'll be fabulous. But let's talk about... I don't know. You and I have very different opinions, I guess, as to what it means to be on a trial. You immediately said write a book. Okay, so you're a Hollywood

lawyer. I get it. Can we get back? Let me redirect. What is his... What I would say in court is your honor objection the witness is not being responsive to the question the question is let me refresh your recollection Daryl how can this security person Travis McGivern contradict the sister's testimony if she hasn't already testified? Maybe they're bringing in her deposition. You know, Nancy, he said, she said, if Amber's sister takes a stand and testifies and says, yes, it was me that stood in between them, what is the jury going to believe?

Is there video of this? Is there audio of this? Was there a ring doorbell that was videoing and audio all of this? The answer is no. So it becomes a question of who the jury believes, if either of them, who the jury disbelieves, possibly both of them. And it doesn't matter. Remember when you and I used to try cases as prosecutors would have a psychiatrist say the defendant was clearly knowing what he or she was doing and they were not as you would say crazy and then the defense would bring a psychiatrist that said oh my client didn't know right from

wrong the Monarch rule doesn't matter so it becomes a question of who you want to believe you look at language you expressions, and then the jury makes their decision. And here, does it really matter? You answer that question. I can't. Okay. You know what? What did he just say?

Because I was asking about the sister's testimony, which has not happened. But yet, the depth side has brought in a witness to contradict her testimony. Her testimony must have been brought in some other way. In other words, you can't contradict something that hasn't happened yet. That said, let's get back. I'm clearly not going to wring an answer out of Daryl Cohen. Let's go back to what's happening in the courtroom. Speaking of psychiatrists, and I mean this in a loving and caring way. Take a listen to Janai Norman,

our friend at GMA and ARCA at 24. This is a bombshell of a trial that's garnering millions of viewers every day that Johnny Depp and Amber Heard head back to court between live streams, TV coverage, even people lining up every morning outside to try to get a coveted seat inside the courtroom to hear the testimony from the star actors about their allegations against each other. Actor Johnny Depp and ex-wife Amber Heard back in court this morning, facing off in their contentious trial centered on a $50 million defamation suit. On Tuesday, a psychologist taking the stand, testifying that Amber Heard suffers from borderline personality disorder, a condition driven by an underlying fear of abandonment and histrionic personality disorder,

a condition she says is associated with drama and shallowness. She had a very sophisticated way of minimizing any personal problems, a tendency to be very self-righteous, but to also deny that self-righteousness and to judge others critically against these sort of high standards. High standards on the part of Amber Heard. Listen, I'm not on Depp's side. I mean, I love Captain Jack Sparrow, but that's not real. Depp is real. And I'm not on her side. I would like to know the truth. Or does it just boil down to, as I've said before, two wet cats in a barrel, clawing and fighting it out,

and the jury's not really going to end up liking either one of them. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Back to the high standards of Amber Heard. According to the witness that's just been on the stand, the longtime security guard and nine-year veteran of Depp's security team. He says that Amber Heard spit on Depp and threw a Red Bull can at him, calling him an effing deadbeat dad and an effing C-word. High standards? I don't know about that, but people say a lot of things when they're angry they wouldn't normally say. Let me go straight out to Dr. Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us today at AngelaArnoldMD.com. What do you make of this diagnosis of borderline

personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder? Well, Nancy, I think it takes a little bit longer than 12 hours to diagnose that. But a well-trained therapist can diagnose those disorders in somebody. People, it's typically very apparent to me when I'm working with something like that, okay? What do you mean? As I tell witnesses and others quite often, please do not refer to he, they, we, she, it. Please give it a proper name. Who, what? What are you talking about?

Patients who have borderline personality disorder, even borderline tendencies, act in a certain, they all act in a certain way. Typically, when you first meet them, they're very lovable. They don't come off as being volatile or unlikable. They're typically very likable when you first meet them because they want you to like them back. Okay. And it's only after a bit of time that they start to feel comfortable with you, that they start to test you and they start to test the limits that they're supposed,

just, just typical social limits that we're supposed to live with them. They also have, in saying that after, so first they're very, they're kind. They bring you gifts. They shower you with praise. That's how you know it's coming. Okay, Nancy? They have a very difficult time regulating their emotions. That's what this is all about, isn't it? A person with borderline personality disorder has a difficult time regulating their emotions, and therefore they have very rocky relationships.

I've got to stop you because you've already said several things that I don't know what you mean. First of all, they will test social limits with you. Please give me an example. where in which patients show up to my office after their appointment is over, so they're late, but they still come to my office, bang on the door, and wait for me in the parking garage. Got it. I get it. Okay.

That's all you need to tell me. So with a borderline personality disorder, they would do something like be very nice to you at the get-go and then begin to test social limits. I understand that. Did you ever watch Monk? He certainly tested his psychiatrist's social limits. And Nancy, do you want to know why they do that?

Why? They do it because at their very core, they fear abandonment. For one reason or another, something happens to them in their childhood and they fear abandonment. For one reason or another, something happened to them in their childhood, and they fear abandonment. So they test the person harder and harder and harder to see, is this person going to abandon me? So if you don't abandon them after one point, then they up the ante. You said they have a problem regulating their emotions. Their behavior. That's right. You said emotions. So what do you mean by that? Well, what I mean by that is, okay, as we grow up, as we grow up, we learn that even though we might want to cut somebody off when we're driving down the street or shake our fist at them or yell at somebody if they do something up to us,

we learn that we can't do that. Something happens in the development of a person that has borderline personality disorder that they, because of their abandonment issues or their neglect that they've suffered growing up, Nancy, they have to speak louder to be heard. Okay? They have to speak louder. So if you're neglected, what do you do? You cry louder so that somebody hears you, right? So no one pays attention to them when they're little. So they don't know how to contain their emotions and still get attention. I like everything that you're, well, I don't necessarily like it, but I understand.

And I may agree with you. But see, when you're on the stand and you keep talking, at some point the jury is going to lose the gist of it. It's going to get lost in the sauce. But I get it. You're saying that. Are you saying you do or do not agree with the diagnosis? I do. You do agree.

Okay. Take a listen to Hour Cut do. You do agree. Okay. Take a listen to Hour Cut 23. This is the doctor now, Dr. Shannon Curry on the witness stand. I also conducted the clinician-administered PTSD scale, the CAPS-5, which is the gold standard PTSD assessment developed by the National Center for PTSD, shown to be valid, accurate for use not just with service members, but also with civilians, men, women, all genders, and also all ethnicities, and then also specifically for use in a courtroom setting. As a result of applying those protocols, what did you conclude? Ms. Hurd did not have PTSD and there were also pretty significant indications that she was

grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked about them. Okay, that's not going to help anything if this jury believes she is exaggerating. Straight out to John Gard, Chief Deputy with the Pitt County Sheriff's Office, joining us from North Carolina, who specializes in investigating domestic violence cases. Deputy Gard, thank you for being with us. Yes, ma'am. Okay. I worked, as a matter of fact, at CrimeCon.

I just got back from CrimeCon. I ran into a woman. I didn't recognize her face, but when I heard her voice, I did. That we knew each other years ago from the district attorney's office when I would volunteer at night, nine years, at the Battered Women's Center. I worked with a lot of battered women in and out of court. But what we're hearing right now is testimony from a medical professional saying that Amber Heard exaggerated with the doctor, with the psychologist. It was the lady I just played for you. And she's explaining, Dr. Shannon Curry, why she thought Amber Heard was exaggerating. You know, with all the women I worked with, I never, of course, they were all beat up pretty badly.

I never really thought about them exaggerating because they were so obviously aggravated, assaulted. It was bad. What do you make of what this doctor is saying? Yeah, it's really difficult to go with that. I mean, again, that's not my background. I'm generally working cases from a criminal end. And as you know, it's different in the civil courts. I do know in domestic violence, sexual assault, and other violent crimes, there is a level of trauma that comes in. And sometimes, you know, things may be fragmented when it's delivered to us as investigators. You mean when the victim gives her story, it may be fragmented?

What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, if you take, for an example, a victim of sexual assault, again, very traumatic event. And sometimes when they're given their statement to you, things may come across in a way that folks that have not been sexually abused or not impacted by trauma at the current time is going to feel like maybe there are gaps here. You know, I wouldn't, I would remember this if it occurred to me. But again, you know, trauma impacts people in different ways. And I'm not saying that's in this case.

What I'm saying is, you know, it's really tough when you interview, as you know, people that have experienced trauma. So kind of hard to Monday morning quarterback people like that, you know. So from a criminal end, it's easy for us in law enforcement because we're looking at elements of a crime and we're kind of checking it off. And, you know, the facts kind of dictate where we go with the investigation. I mean, we're at the end of the day, we're fact finders. But this is a difficult case. And I know it's getting a lot of attention, certainly. You know, Deputy Guard joining us, Deputy John Guard out of Pitt County in North Carolina, who specializes in domestic violence cases. That can happen.

Many people find it difficult to believe that you can block out very traumatic events, but I can tell you that around the time, and I mean for a couple of years before and several years after my fiance's murder, there's big chunks of memory loss. I don't know if it's God's way to protect you. I don't know what it is, but I can tell you it's real. That in mind, I want you to hear what else this shrink has to say about Amber Heard. Is it real? You just heard her state that she found Amber Heard to be histrionic and that she did not have post-traumatic stress syndrome, but that's not all. Take a listen to our cut 25 from GMA. Psychologist Shannon Curry, who is not board

certified and was hired by Depp's team, examined Heard for 12 hours. She also alleges that Heard did not suffer post-traumatic stress disorder from her relationship with Depp despite her claims. As a result of applying those protocols, what did you conclude? Ms. Hurd did not have PTSD, and there were also pretty significant indications that she was grossly exaggerating symptoms of PTSD when asked about them. Hurd's attorneys questioning Curry over potential bias. After it was revealed she had dinner and drinks with Depp before she was hired. You'd seen a number of his TV and movie roles, and you believed he was a good actor, correct? Not correct. I did not know Johnny Depp.

I had seen several of his movies. You knew who he was? Yes. Okay, so knowing who he is before you take the job doesn't mean that she's biased. Of course, everybody on the stand, if you're getting paid by one of the parties, is going to be cross-examined on that. I want to go back to what's happening today. The security guard, Travis McGivern, on the stand, we also know that he states that Amber Heard spit on Depp and threw a Red Bull can at him. I mean, just common sense. Alexis Tereschuk, if the jury thinks Amber Heard also brutalized Johnny Depp, how is that going to affect their verdict? Well, this could really be working in Johnny's favor.

You know, what he says is that he was standing in between them and Amber reached out and punched Johnny on the left side of his face. And that he had a swelling and a bruise and a red mark for days afterwards he said this like she hit him he was an eyewitness he had been his security guard for years and he also explained that ember ember heard was not only rude to johnny depp he was rude to him she said he was very demeaning about the fact that he was simply just a security guard really snobby about you know his decision to back his career really you know criticizing him for that and saying that he said you know she threw shade at him which means that she was really saying something mean about him so she she was not only rude to Johnny Depp he says

but she was also personally vindictive and rude to him you know I think part of this not only is it true but Daryl Cohen I think it's going to turn the jury against Amber Heard and there's not a darn thing that can be done about it because when your plaintiff which in this case Johnny Depp is he's suing her after she wrote an article calling him an abuser it's his duty it's his burden under the law to go first so they're going to hear his whole side first Nancy you only have one chance to make a first impression and they have heard his whole side, will continue to hear his whole side. And I agree, it is not looking good for Amber. Having said that, there's something in boxing called a counterpuncher. And when Amber and her

team testifies, I suspect they're going to try and turn it completely around and we've got to wash. He said, she said, they both did. Many people wondering why this case was brought. Talk about dirty laundry. Take a listen to Our Cut 17. This is Johnny Depp on the stand. Listen. It's over.

You know, you're done. So what did it do to me? What effect did it have on me? No matter the outcome of this trial, the second the allegations were made against me, the accusations, the second that more and more these things, as I said, metastasized and turned into fodder for the media.

Once that happens, or once that happened, I lost then. To Alexis Tereschuk, we understand that Amber Heard is taking the stand. Unlike in a criminal case where the state has the burden of proof, the state cannot call the accused. In a civil case, I mean, think back to O.J. Simpson when the Goldman family sued Simpson. Simpson was called to the accused. In a civil case, I mean, think back to OJ Simpson when the Goldman family sued Simpson. Simpson was called to the stand. Simpson was called to be deposed, give sworn testimony, and there's no way out. So she is going to take the stand, but she is bringing herself to the stand. Depp is not calling her to the stand. Is that correct, Alexis?

That is absolutely correct. And she could be on the stand as soon as tomorrow, as soon as May 3rd, because she wants to tell her side of the story. But there's something very interesting that just happened with Amber Heard. She had hired a crisis PR firm to advise her during this whole trial, and she just fired them and hired a new crisis PR firm. So on top of all these lawyers, you know, the millions of dollars that have been spent on lawyers, she is using a crisis PR firm because she understands that she is getting so much bad press that people are really siding with Johnny Depp. This is Johnny Depp's shining moment lately. He has really won over the public with his testimony. And people do not believe that Amber Heard was the victim at all here. They believe that she is the one that was abusing him and that then she wrote that op-ed even after their divorce when she was not supposed to say

anything about it. And after Johnny gave her $7 million and she said she was going to donate it to charity and she donated almost none of it to charity, she has hired a crisis PR firm, fired them, and hired a new one today. And people are saying for the first time ever, she walked into court this morning smiling and hugged her attorney. She's never done that. But observers in the court have been saying that she's never done that before. And they think that this is a little ploy by the crisis PR firm to have her image changed. You know what? I think we're trying to make sense of a nonsensical situation. I bet you that if you asked 100 people about what they think regarding the trial, I bet you that 99 would say they hit each other. Take a listen to our cut 29.

This is Depp on the stand. Mr. Depp, now that the jury can see the photograph, can you again explain what that green dot is a wound from taking my cigarette and

this is after the finger had gone away and she stubbed it out in my face, on my cheek daryl cohen if you're representing amber heard good luck good luck with her claiming oh he hit me because she gave as good as she got it sounds like with broquo and i'm not saying Depp didn't hit her. I'm saying she also abused him, maybe more than he abused her. This all goes back to that op-ed piece that she wrote for the Washington Post.

This is after the divorce, after the settlement. She writes an article talking about how she is a domestic violence victim. He claims it defamed him, maligned him. She says, well, I didn't put your name in there. Take us an hour cut 31. Robin, her lawyers omitted the below, but Amber would love to see a way to have that part in bold somehow put back in. Is there an artful way to do that otherwise she is okay with the final two years ago I sought a temporary restraining order from my then husband ellipses was changed to two years ago after successfully acquiring a temporary restraining order but still not cleared by her lawyers you see that see that? I do. Is that consistent with your understanding about what

Ms. Heard's desires were? Yeah, I trust Jessica White's relationship with Amber so that when Jessica told Robin that that was something Amber wanted, I have no reason to think that that's not correct. So what I'm understanding, to you Alexis Teres, joining us from CrimeOnline.com, her defense is, one of them anyway, is I never said your name in the article, so I couldn't defame you. You weren't identified. But that's only because the Post deleted his name. She wanted it back in. She did. Absolutely right. And that's what this testimony has shown by the ACLU. This isn't like somebody that has worked for Johnny Depp for 20 years or

somebody who's a fan of his movies. This is the head of an organization that has been at the forefront, you know, of fighting for civil rights across our country. This has nothing to do with her being, although I kind of think, you know, she was giving them quite a few million dollars, they thought. So they definitely seemed like they were a little bit starstruck in dealing with her. But Johnny Depp's name was not in it. However, it referenced I was a victim. She had filed a restraining order in public. The only person she'd been with for the last, you know, since 2011 was Johnny Depp. Like it was Johnny Depp. This was so clearly Johnny Depp. It could not have been anyone else. She also dated Elon Musk. It wasn't Elon Musk. That was after thispp. Like, it was Johnny Depp. This was so clearly Johnny Depp. It could not have been anyone else. She also

dated Elon Musk. It wasn't Elon Musk. That was after this. She really gave a very specific time frame of when she was, quote, a victim of domestic abuse. Guys, I want you to hear something. It's disturbing sound, to me anyway. Take a listen to Our Cut 32.

You can please tell people that it was a fair fight and see what the jury and judge think. Tell the world, Johnny. Tell them Johnny Depp. I, Johnny Depp, man, I'm a victim of civil transvestite. And I know it's a fair fight. And see how many people believe or side with you.

It doesn't matter if it's a fair fight. My ass. Exactly. And what did you say in response when miss heard said tell the world johnny tell them johnny depp i johnny depp a man i'm a victim too of domestic violence i said yes Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. John Garry joining me, special guest, the Chief Deputy at Pitt County Sheriff's Office, specializing in investigating domestic violence cases.

It's almost as if she is, well, she is. She's taunting him, saying, who's going to believe you when you claim you're a domestic violence victim? Well, again, it certainly doesn't look good with that, you know, outside looking in at that. But at the end of the day, you know, we have to ask ourselves in these scenarios, is there such thing as provocation of violence if that occurred? You know, and officers around the country face this every day. When we respond to cases of intimate partner violence, You're not there when the event happened.

You come in and you do your best to investigate. We separate each party and try to get down to the bottom of the case of what actually happened based on, you know, facts and things we're able to uncover during our interviews. But again, I can see where, you know, from outside looking in, you go, golly, that could be almost like, you know, tempting or provocation or things like that. And, you know, for us, again, as officers, we look at criminal investigations. We have to weed through all that. And as an example, in cases of violence on both sides in these relationships, we're trained to come in, investigate, and determine who the predominant aggressor is based on a number of different things, past history, size, all that type of information

and make what we hope is the best decision possible. You said the predominant aggressor. Right. You're right. Who is the predominant aggressor in this? To Dr. Angela Arnold, I know you just heard everything Deputy John Gard said. Let me ask you, what is a histrionic personality? What is that?

Because this same doctor says Heard has a histrionic personality disorder. Nancy, a histrionic personality disorder is one in which people are very evasive, effusive with their emotion. I thought it meant you were dramatic. It does. It does. It does. It means you're very dramatic in how, and you know, the funny thing is Nancy,

just for your viewers out there, this is very interesting. Borderline personality disorder and histrionic personality disorders are in the same category of personality disorders. Okay. So we have several different categories of personality disorders

and they're very similar personality disorders and oftentimes occur in the same person. Guys, I want you to also take a listen to our cut 20. How long would it take until sex rears its head? Question. The night before you were due to meet up, did you have a heated discussion on the telephone with Miss Heard about what was happening with James Franco, the scene she was doing with James Franco? Answer. I do not recall, but it is highly likely. Did I read that right? You did.

And you suspected that Amber was having an affair with James Franco, correct? That was the reason for your argument. Yeah, yes. And when you got on the plane, you considered that she was also being judgmental toward you because she believed that you were inebriated and under the influence of drugs, correct? That was a constant. And I'm talking about this particular plane flight. Well, still a constant. You considered that she was being judgmental toward you because she believed you were inebriated and under the influence of drugs when you got on this plane, correct?

Yes. And at some point on the flight, you ended up sleeping on the bathroom floor, right? I did. Ended up sleeping on the bathroom floor. Okay. I don't know who that helps. But I did learn one thing. Alexis Tereszczuk, Depp

believed Amber Heard was having an affair with Franco, James Franco. What does that have to do with this? Only my question that James Franco had been on the witness list for Depp and now he's not. Is that correct? That is correct. He has

not shown up in court but yeah he believed that she was cheating on him. So she's accusing him of drinking and doing drugs and these wild fights and he's like you are cheating on me with like another celebrity who's not even nearly as famous as me and somebody who has a really bad reputation. So it was very distressing for him. Okay I don't know if the two were cheating or not, but I do know he's been dropped from the witness list. Now, Daryl Cohen, let's stay in the middle of the road. Stay out of the weeds. Why would Depp list Franco as a witness and then not call him?

Oh, that's called lightning from a clear blue sky because Franco is not going to testify the way Johnny Depp wants him to testify. Exactly. And by the way, Nancy, sleeping on a bathroom floor on a plane, does that tell you something? He wasn't not drunk. He wasn't not high. He was drugging. So these two deserve each other.

See, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Depp didn't hit her. And I'm not saying that he did hit her. Because I find her to be very unbelievable and a little dislikable. But does that mean she wasn't hit? No, it doesn't. But what you're saying is right. There was a sudden U-turn on calling James Franco to the stand.

And that only means one thing, that his testimony was not going to jive with what Depp wanted. Alexis Tereschuk, talking about Franco, talking about these two witnesses, who's likable, who's not likable. Did it come out that Amber Heard, at the time of the split, demanded to Depp that she could live in one of his three homes and keep a black Range Rover in exchange for her not filing some kind of a complaint against him? Yes. So she went to her lawyer and they went, they sent Johnny Depp's lawyer a note and said, Amber wants to live in one of the three penthouses.

He owns three penthouse apartments. She wants to be able to live in all of those, all three of them, not with Johnny. She wants to keep a Range Rover and she wanted $125,000 for legal fees immediately and another $100,000 spending money. They said, you know, we're going to keep this private, but this is what Amber would like. And then three or four days later, she went and filed a restraining order, putting out in the public so not keeping it at all private and his lawyer johnny's lawyer testified that they basically felt like this was almost like a blackmail like if you don't give us these three apartments penthouse apartments these aren't you know one bedroom studio apartments these are palatial the whole top floor these apartment

buildings and a fancy car and hundreds of thousands of dollars immediately we're going to You know, one bedroom studio apartments. These are palatial, the whole top floor, these apartment buildings. And a fancy car and hundreds of thousands of dollars immediately. We're going to trash you in public. And that's exactly what they say she did. Okay. Amber Heard's divorce demands revealed in a letter submitted by the Johnny Depp lawyers. And it insists that she be able to live rent three and not one, not two, but three plush apartments, and keep the Range Rover in exchange for keeping things, quote, out of the media spotlight. I'm telling you, I love Edward Scissorhands, and I love Captain Jack Sparrow, but these two, both of them,

are getting very difficult to tolerate. Her demanding to live in three penthouse apartments and a Range Rover in order to keep things from going public. You know what? If I had been beaten, I'd be pretty sure I'd be calling the cops and moving forward with domestic violence claims, not trying to bargain my way in or out of it. And you know why? Because I would not want my children to grow up to think that was the kind of thing. You just bargain away. You beat me. Okay. Can I have the Range Rover? Just? It just tastes bad. It's leaving a bad taste in my mouth. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.