Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cold med killer suspect heads to court; Mom charged with murder in daughter's DUI death

Episode Date: September 19, 2017

A North Carolina man who blames an overdose of cold medicine for a bad dream that ended with his wife stabbed to death appears in court soon. Matthew Phelps calmly told a 911 dispatcher he was covered with dried blood and his wife was lifeless in their bed. Nancy Grace updates the cold medicine killer case with forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober, radio host David Mack. An Alabama mother is jailed on a murder charge after her 10-year-old daughter died in a car crash. Karen Foster, allegedly was high on drugs when she crashed her car, killing daughter Malaya Peterson. Reporter Larry Meagher, forensics expert Sheryl McCollum, and psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall talk about the case with Nancy. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. February 2004, Mara Murray empties her bank account, drives four hours from school, crashes her car, gets out, and vanishes. Everybody has a theory. Was she murdered? Was it a suicide? Did she run away? Join the search as an investigative reporter and former U.S. Marshal uncover new evidence, interrogate new witnesses, trace down new leads in this riveting new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray. It starts Saturday, September 23, 8.15 p.m., 7.15 p.m. Central on Oxygen, the new network for crime.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, channel 132. This young aspiring pastor charged with murdering his Sunday school teacher wife. I think I killed my wife. What do you mean by that? What happened? 28-year-old Matthew Phelps arrested after a detailed and disturbing call to 911. I had a dream, and then I turned on the lights, and she's dead on the floor. How? How? How? Between labored breaths and alarming admission.

I have blood all over me, and there's a bloody knife on the bed, and I think I did it. I can't believe this. A disoriented-sounding caller telling the dispatcher he took cough medicine to sleep the night before. It qualifies that, yes, it looks like I did kill her. The knife is here. I have blood all over me. However, this medicine made me do it. An aspiring pastor calls 911, and he sounds so disoriented, sobbing, breathing heavily, as if he had just run a marathon to reveal his young wife, his bride, really of just months, was dead on the floor, covered in blood.

No, it was not an armed intruder. It was not a home invader. It was not a maniacal killer. They're blaming it all on cough medicine i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us with me this morning syndicated radio host dave mack and also with me renowned forensic psychiatrist dr daniel bober and boy do i need shrink. Let's take it from the top. Dave Mack, let's kick it off with a listen to the 911 call. Take a listen. Tell me exactly what happened. I think I killed my wife.

What do you mean by that? What happened? I had a dream and then I turn on the lights and she's dead on the floor. How? I have blood all over me and there's a bloody knife on the bed and I think I did it. Okay. You mean I stay on the phone with you, I'm getting there and you're going to be okay? I can't believe this. I can't believe this. When did you wake up to find this? I don't even know what time it is.

Alright, stay on the phone with me, sir. I just gotta ask you a few questions, okay? I'm getting some help to you. Are you with the patient now? Yeah, I can see her. Okay, alright, how old is the patient? She's 29. Okay, is she awake at all right now? What makes you think she's dead? Is she awake?

She's not breathing okay oh my god okay do you think she is beyond any help i don't know i'm too scared to get too close to her okay just stay on the phone with me sir i. I'm here with you. I'm here with you. Straight out to Dave Mack, syndicated radio host, joining us. Dave, question. Let's take it from the beginning. What do we know about this pastor? What do we know about him?

Well, we know that he graduated from Bible college a couple of years ago, but he's been working mowing yards. know about him? Well, we know that he graduated from Bible college a couple of years ago, but he's been working mowing yards. I mean, basically trying to make a living. That's pretty much where it ends. And he claims that he took too much cold medicine and then woke up to this nightmare. Okay, here's my concern. Okay, first of all, about her. But I'm trying to decipher what I can learn from that 911 call. I mean, Dr. Daniel Bober, he's totally out of breath. He's obviously physically exerted. So how can he argue that he was asleep, that he was asleep at the time this happened? Well, Nancy, I think what he was trying to say is that he was in at the time this happened well nancy i think what he was trying to say is

that he was in some sort of altered state of consciousness or dissociative state and he didn't realize what he was doing and maybe that sound of him being out of breath was actually him being distraught so i don't think that this is a very distraught is that what they taught you in medical school you're covered in blood your wife is covered in stab wounds. She fought with you because obviously she was asleep in the bed. Now she's in the floor. She didn't magically appear there. So there was a fight.

But you are telling me he was breathing heavily because he was upset? Well, Nancy, maybe if she was in in fact sleeping then she was essentially ambushed maybe there was no chance for a fight because he stabbed her repeatedly she probably lost so much blood there was so much catastrophic loss of blood that there probably wasn't much of a chance for her to even react if she was sleeping if she was sound asleep so how did she get on the floor thrashing moving about maybe he pushed her on the floor it's hard to know but what we do know is that she fought that's how she got on the floor i wish we were in the ring together bober okay what about this guys the wife lauren la Lauren Hugelmayer, killed by her husband, Matthew Phelps, found dead in their Raleigh home there in North Carolina.

He claims he had taken, quote, too much Coricidin, cold and cough medicine before bed. And the reason we're on this today, he's headed to court. And I cannot wait to hear what he is going to say. Why doesn't he, Dave Mack, syndicated talk show host, just stand up and go, okay, you know what, I'm manning up, I did it. Oh, no, he's not going to do that. He's going to drag us all down his primrose path of BS. That's what's going to happen.

He's either going to plead not guilty or claim he has a mental defect. What about it, Dave? You know, in reality, this Coruscant defense, actually looking at the history of Coruscant, they've never had a violent outburst attributed to Coruscant. What we do know is that because he was aware of overtaking it, I'm guessing, and this is just me throwing it out there, I'm guessing this guy uses Chorosedon to get a buzz, and that was just his first go-to thing is that he'd been doing it. This woman

apparently was just a sweet, sweet lady, a Sunday school teacher, you know, who's trying to start work at home in her spare time because her husband was mowing yards, even though he has an evangelical degree from a Bible college. Okay, let me just say, since nobody asked, that in our Methodist church, mock me if you want, we are a peace-loving bunch that loves to sing. Yes, unlike others, we do dance and drink not me of course but them they drink so this is what i know in the methodist church you have to take a psychological exam before you can get up in the pulpit you just don't graduate from bible school or online somewhere and then suddenly you're just up in the pulpit

helping other people figure out their problems as a a matter of fact, I've been told that Jim Jones, you remember the Kool-Aid, tried to be a Methodist pastor and was turned down because he failed the psychological. Now, I'm just wondering, I don't know that Phelps couldn't pass a psychological. He did not go to a Methodist seminary. He went to a different, I can't remember, something in Kentucky. I've got to look it up again. It was actually a Southern Baptist college in Kentucky. And Nancy, something you don't know about me is I actually did go to a Bible college after going to North Carolina State.

Well, what happened? Why are you a syndicated talk show host? Yeah, I'm actually, I am an ordained pastor, but the bottom line is that, you know, we tend to look at things differently when somebody has a background in a Bible-oriented thing like he did. I do. You know, I'm guilty of that, and I shouldn't, but when I, when I believe I just instinctively think when you are a pastor or involved in somehow in religion, whether it's a synagogue or a church or a mosque or whatever it may be, you have taken on the indicia of, you know. Being a religious person that cares about other people and they're trying to do the right thing. And to me, it puts you, it sets you up to a higher bar, a higher standard. I know that's not right, but that's just what I think. Actually, you know, if you, and I'm not going to get into a Sunday school lesson here, but you know, if you read the book of James in the New

Testament, it says those who teach are going to be judged at a higher level than those who choose not to teach within the confines of the church. This guy is pretty much... Listen to Dave Mack throwing some New Testament on me. Sorry about that. Don't be sorry. Be proud. Be loud and proud, man. Look, I love Jesus, but there are crazy people in every walk of life, and there are losers in every walk of life. This guy is an abject failure in life. He graduated with a degree in evangelism and missionary work, and here we are five years after he graduates, and he's mowing yards for a living. And by the way, not even mowing yards in Raleigh, North Carolina, but working for a company that's actually based out of Greensboro several

hours away. This guy was a failure in multiple cities and his poor wife, she's teaching Sunday school and trying to start an at work home, work at home thing on Facebook just to try to bring some money into the house. Look, I've been there, Dr. Daniel Bober. I remember in law school, I was so broke. My study partner and I, Frank, we would go to Del Taco on Tuesday nights because I think you could get three tacos for 99 cents. That was the big night. Okay. And I would have to, this was before you could look it up on your, you know, laptop or your iPad. I'd have to drive through the bank, hold on, check my balance. And I would actually sometimes write the check for the 99 cent tacos. I would not even

have $2 to rub together. I don't know how I kept gas in the car, but I hear it. We've pretty much, everybody has been there. I'm just looking again to get, to leave Jesus out of this and the money and the yards and the lawnmowers out of this, I want to get back to the actual incident and the fact that he is headed to court in the next couple of days and something's going to give. Daniel Bober, how do you expect him to present in court? I think that this is the only explanation that he really has to account for his behavior. I think, I mean, some people would say he's throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. But, you know, there's no, it's very, very improbable that this defense will work and the 911 call is not helpful to him at all. But I'm sure that this is what he's going to go for because this is all he has. You know, Dave Max, syndicated talk show host, joining me.

I want to follow up on what Dr. Bober's saying. Pretty much Bober has been right. He's kind of painted himself into a corner. He's either got to plead guilty, which he's not going to do, not guilty, or a mental defect. I expect strongly, whether he's got a defect or not, that's what he's going to plead. That's going to send us down the road of months and months and months of exams, testing, psychological evaluations. He'll be sent to a special facility to be tested. No telling how long that will take. But he's again again, blaming this on Chorosedin.

Did you know what I think one of you said to start with is right. He actually said, I took it to make me feel good and to help me go to sleep. Nothing about I've been sick, nothing like that at all. He took it to get high and then go to sleep Dave yep that is what I saw from the very beginning of this one not that dissimilar from people using what they call whippets you know there's all kinds of ways you can use over-the-counter medications to cop a just don't throw it out there I didn't even know what a whip it was until Demi Moore sucked a couple up and got in trouble explain Explain what a whippet is.

Okay, that's, and I'm not an expert in this at all, but, and that's where I actually found out what it was, was from Demi Moore. It's using the over-the-counter, or the dairy topping, you know, that has the aerosol in the bottom of the can, and they poke a hole in it, and they suck that out to get the buzz from the aerosol. The aerosol. Yeah. And so the same thing with this Coricidin is that young people have been using the Coricidin over the last several years. They take a large number, 10 or 12 of the tablets, I guess, and that renders them into some state of euphoria.

Guys, sleepwalking defense has actually worked a couple of times. Because he's saying he was OD'd on Chorus Seed and Cough Syrup, which Bayer Aspirin, by the way, has vehemently denied. They're the ones that make the Chorus Seed. And it's just like, Jackie, what are the different cough syrups? They'll say like Robitussin, Robitussin DM or Robitussin XM or I don't know. All the little letters beside them mean something different. This had it too, right? Yeah. She's saying yes. It's Coricidin like ABC. There's something. HBP. Yeah. Maybe something like that, and those stand. This is not just regular Coricidin, but Bayer is saying no way. Let me

tell you about these cases very quickly. They actually, he was saying it made him go to sleep, into a deep sleep. There was Massachusetts v. Terrell all the way back to 1846. He was acquitted in the murder of a prostitute in Boston. He slit the woman's throat. He set fire to the brothel, then fled to New Orleans, and he agreed that he, the jury agreed and found him not guilty when he claimed he was a chronic sleepwalker. Okay, now that was in 1846. All right, hold on. Then there was Fane. That's in the 1870s. A man goes to sleep in the lobby of a Kentucky hotel.

The porter shook him to wake him up. The man pulled a gun and shot him. That sounds a lot like the current Tex McIver case that's going on in Atlanta where the guy woke up in the back seat and shot his wife. Okay, there's that one. He was found guilty. Okay, that conviction was reversed. State v. Bradley.

We're moving up in time to the 1920s in Texas. Same thing. He and his mistress were getting ready to go to bed. He became, quote, alarmed about an enemy who made a threat against him. Somehow, he's asleep, he lights the lamp, and his girlfriend ends up dead. Okay. Regina versus Parks. That's in Canada.

That's much more recent, 1987. Now catch this, Dr. Bober. The guy murders his mother-in-law. And he used a sleepwalking defense. He got out of bed, drove 14 miles to his mother-in-law's house, and strangled his father-in-law until he passed out, and bludgeoned the mother-in-law with a tire iron, stabbed them both with a kitchen knife. The mother-in-law dies. The father-in-law barely survives. Okay, he was found not guilty, but that's Canada. Okay, I don't know what is going on up

there. Then you've got a 94 case, and that one, he was sentenced with the same defense. Arizona v. Fowlater in 97, that was pretty famous. That guy was a devout Mormon. He stabbed his wife 44 times with a hunting knife, dragged her into the backyard pool, and held her head underwater. Whoopsie. Okay, they found him guilty. And the last one, California versus Rents. Stephen Rents killed his lover, and she was the married woman in her 40s during what was supposed to be a romantic getaway to Catalina Island.

Well, long story short, at the end of that trial, the jury heard him claim he did it as he was sleepwalking, and they convicted him. There have been a couple of more. One guy that I covered strangled his little boy dead under a lot of financial problems. When a jury let him go, this was recent. I just covered this in the last, say, five years. The wife passed out. She was so upset he murdered their four-year-old child and was let go. It's the last week of National Make a Will Month at LegalZoom. There's still time to take control of your family's assets and their future.

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at checkout, LegalZoom.com. LegalZoom.com. Guys, in just a couple of days, a young aspiring pastor is heading to court, and we're all wondering and analyzing what is going to happen. We're talking, of course, this is just after the funeral for his 29-year-old wife has been held. We are talking about her husband, Matthew Phelps, 28, now charged with killing his wife, Lauren, at their Raleigh, North Carolina home in the early morning hours of a Friday morning. I want you to listen to the rest of that 911 call.

Roll it, Alan Duke. I can't believe this. When did you wake listen to the rest of that 911 call. Roll it, Alan Duke. I can't believe this. When did you wake up to find this? I don't even know what time it is. All right, stay on the phone with me, sir. I just got to ask you a few questions, okay? I'm getting some help to you. Are you with the patient now?

Yeah, I can see her. Okay. All right, how old is the patient? How old is your wife? She's 29. Okay. Is she awake at all right now? What makes you think she's dead?

Is she awake? She's not breathing. Okay. Oh, my God. Okay, do you think she is beyond any help? I don't know. I'm too scared to get too close to her. Okay, just stay on the phone with me, sir.

I'm here with you. I'm here with you. I'm so scared. All right, I've already sent the paramedics to help you, okay? I'm sending someone to assist you. Just please leave everything as you found it. Is there anything elseamedics to help you, okay? I'm sending someone to assist you. Just please leave everything as you found it. Is there anything else we can do for you? So where's the knife right now?

It's on the bed. I'm not next to it, so I don't have a weapon on me or anything like that. Okay, when did you wake up? I don't know. I took more medicine than I should have. What medicine did you take? I took, I took course eating, cough and cold, course eating, HCP cough and cold, because I know it can make you feel good, so a lot of times I can't sleep at night. Okay. And I took some. Alright, so, what, is, is, what, are you sure she's not breathing?

She's not breathing. Oh my god Okay, i'm gonna stay i'm gonna stay here with you, okay just just let's let's at least see if she's breathing, okay All right Just can you see her from where you're at? Yeah, it's so bad. There's so much blood. Okay, alright. I'm gonna stay here on the phone with you until help gets there, okay? Um, just don't, don't touch anything. Just look at, is she breathing at all? Is her chest moving? Is anything going on with her? No. Okay, well, we're gonna, we're gonna leave... Water's dried on with her? No. Okay, well, we're gonna...

The blood is dried on me. It's dried? The blood's not wet on me. The blood is dry. Okay. I don't know what I... Oh, my God. Alright, well, we're gonna at least try to help her, okay? Alright, just give me, just, alright, I've already sent the paramedics to help you, just down the line I'm going to tell you exactly what to do next, okay?

Are you right by her? Oh my God, I don't think I can see her, but, oh my God. Stay with me, sir. I know, I know this is upsetting, but we're going to try to do as much for her as we can. If you're not sure that she's gone, we're going to try to help her, okay? So just listen carefully. I know it's difficult. Just listen.

Okay, sir? All right, just look at her right now. Tell me what you see. Is she chest moving? Is she breathing? Anything at all? No, she's not breathing at all. No. Oh my God.

I hope you didn't deserve this. You look wise. I understand, sir. I understand. But right now, we just want to make sure we're doing as much as possible. Is there anyone else at all in the home with you, or is it just you and her? No, it's just me and her. Where are you in the house? Where are you in the house, sir? I'm in the back of the house. There's a wide audience. Okay, well...

Alright, is the door unlocked? I don't know. Can you go do that for me, sir? That way the paramedics can get in? Are you able to do that? No. Okay, go ahead and stay on the phone with me. Go ahead and unlock the door, okay? I'm stuck with life. What would you say, sir?

I'm so tired. Go ahead and unlock the door. Let me know once you've done that, okay? Let me know when the door's unlocked. I'm so tired. Yeah, I know. I'm so tired. unlocked okay all you said officers there okay i'm gonna let you go i'm gonna let you go afraid to touch her dave max syndicated talk show host what he stabs her dead. He's covered in her blood. He slept with her. They're married. He's afraid to touch her.

What, Dave Mack? You know, the whole story reeks of just making it up as you go along. And I can't figure out where that even came from. The guy's covered in blood. He sees his wife and he's afraid to check to see if she's alive. I have no answer on that one, Nancy. And I'm sorry. It just is crazy. It's

a big bag of made-up crazy. Big bag of made-up crazy. Dr. Daniel Bober, there you hear Dave Mack and my professional analysis, big bag of made-up crazy. Somehow, I don't think they taught you that in med school. Dr. Daniel Bober, renowned forensic psychiatrist, joining us. So now he's afraid to touch her. Yeah, Nancy, the whole thing doesn't really make sense. It's I don't know if I would use that technical term that you both use. But certainly, you know, this is something that's highly improbable, but it is possible. I've never seen a case of murder on Coruscant. There have been some adverse or untoward reactions, but it's not something that's ever been documented that I've

heard about. So I guess that's all he's got right now. And that's what he's going to stick with. Alan Duke joining us out of LA. Alan, you're saying it's Coricidin H-Happy B-Brother P-Pennsylvania? H-B-P. It stands for high blood pressure. That doesn't mean he had high blood pressure. People take it who don't have that. But it's, I guess, just a certain formula that gives a certain effect. Because he didn't say he was taking it for a cold. He said he was taking it to make him feel good. Yeah, let me remind everybody, as the sole legal voice on the panel right now, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense, never a defense, unless you're comatose.

Comatose does not mean in an altered state such as sleepwalking. It means comatose, as in you're lying there, not walking around with a knife in your hand. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, Choracin HBP, is that for people with high blood pressure? Does cough syrup make

your blood pressure go up? It can. I'm guessing it's for, it's probably for, I don't actually know that it stands for high blood pressure go up it can i'm guessing it's for it's probably for uh i don't actually know that it stands for high blood pressure but it could it does i just looked at that when uh when alan told me that it must be for people with high blood pressure people with high blood pressure that it won't raise their blood pressure but it has chlorophenyramine which is an antihistamine and the dextromethorphan which is the ingredient that we're targeting here that has a similar effect to PCP and ketamine, which can cause these dissociative states.

So that's kind of what they're focused on. So I guess you're pretty proud of yourself, Dr. Bober, the way you sling around all those words. You got a dummy down. I'm just a trial lawyer. Now, Alan Duke, I can't really speak for him, but you got a dummy down for me what did you just say the the two ketamine which we've heard about use the street name is special k and pc and yes okay now you're talking now i get it and pcp angel dust pcp uh chemically related to that to these substances and that's what their defense is going to focus on that he's going to say cause this altered state which he committed the crime during but he took it

voluntarily alan duke he took it voluntarily it's not like this was an accident when i mean if that were true everybody in the fulton county jail would be out right now that all claim they had it's flu and cold and flu season that that they were on course in HBP. That's not a defense. This was premeditated that the 911 call was. No, you got to read the warning signs. Of course, it doesn't say on the little in the little fine print. It doesn't say may cause you to wake up and kill your wife.

He is appearing in court. I believe he'll be transferred over and appear in person. There's always a chance it may be a video appearance. I don't see that happening. In the 911, he sounds like he's struggling to breathe. He goes, there's blood all over me. There's a bloody knife in the bed and I think I did it. I can't believe this. He's struggling for breath. He goes on, I can't believe I did this. I don't even know what time it is. I can see her. She's not breathing. OMG. I took more medicine than I should have. I'm scared to get too close to her. I took corticine cough and cold because I know it can make you feel good.

And a lot of times I can't sleep at night. Isn't that what he said, Dave Mack? That's exactly what he said. And obviously by saying, I think I took too much, he regularly takes this to cop a buzz, not because he's got a cough and cold. He knew exactly what he was doing to get high and he's using that as an excuse for killing his wife. Or he took it because he couldn't sleep,

which is a little bit different. Why is that different? It's still voluntary. Well, it's voluntary, but in other words, the difference is that he's not using it recreationally. He's using it as a sleep agent instead of to catch a buzz. He didn't actually say, I'm using it to catch a buzz. Maybe when he said, I meant it, I took it to feel good. What he was saying was, I'm taking it because I couldn't sleep and I had insomnia. I'm just looking at all the possible ways the defense could spin this to his benefit. You're right. You're right. I disagree with you, but you're right that you have to.

You know, when you go to court, it's a battle. And if you go in with just your case prepared, you may very well lose. You have to go in not only with your case totally ready, you have to be prepared to battle their case you have to anticipate what they're going to do and be ready to attack it and destroy it so bober is right in that he said and i'm quoting i took more medicine than i should have i took coruscant cough and cold because i know it can make you feel good so a lot lot of times, I can't sleep at night. Okay, so yeah, they're probably going to go with the sleep thing. But let's analyze this.

Dr. Daniel Bober, listen to this. To claim that he was asleep for whatever reason, whether it's quercetin or something else or nothing, he's using the sleepwalking defense for whatever agent made him sleepy. To me, it's irrelevant. He's using a sleepwalking defense. Listen to this. He had to get up out of bed. He had to go get the kitchen knife in the kitchen,

unless he had it by the bed, which means it's even more premeditated than we think. Gets it out of the kitchen. Walks back to the bedroom. Targets his wife in the dark because he said later on the 911 that he turned on the light. Targets his wife. Begins to stab her. She struggles. He stabs her multiple times. Think of the exertion, the power, the physical maneuvering to raise a knife and pull it down over and over and over. She gets out of bed.

She struggles away. He continues. Then he's covered in blood. She's covered in blood. He goes to the phone, turns on the light, dials 911. How in the hey, Daniel Bober, did he sleep through all that? That's my point. Well, Nancy, you know, in the Canada case that you mentioned, the gentleman who drove 14 miles, I mean, people have been known to exhibit these complex behaviors in these sleepwalking defenses.

So again, although it sounds completely far out and in another universe um it is possible uh in these sleepwalking states to commit these types of behaviors i'm not saying that's what happened in this case but it is possible what about the fact dave max syndicated talk show host that the blood had dried means that it happened uh at least a you know couple hours before and uh i see i that's really the exertion thing when you talk about him being out of breath and everything. I thought that sounded made up to me. This had already happened. He had spun a story over the last hour or two,

and so when he called, he actually tried to hyperventilate to make himself sound in that exerted state at the time like he was panicked or whatever. I think it was just premeditated from beginning to end, and that's why the blood was dry because it took him that long to figure out what he was going to say.

What about that, bober because um jackie over here is waving it around on a notepad the blood was dry dr bober you're not just a psychiatrist you are a forensic psychiatrist i'd like you to use all your degrees for good not evil so what does the blood being dried mean to you? No doubt it's problematic. Just like the 911 call, it's not consistent. If the blood was dry, then clearly when he made that call, you know, she had been sitting there for some extended period of time, which the timeline doesn't fit for what he's trying to say. So no doubt that's a big problem. Well, what does it mean? I know it's a problem, but let's extrapolate. Let's figure out what it means. I mean, when you present something like this to a jury, you give them a fact,

and then you make an argument based on that one fact, then another fact, then another fact, until you've built a mountain of facts. So what does the fact that her blood was already dried mean to you, Dr. Bober? It means there was some time for him to, there was some delay. This was not something where he turned and he did it and he called. There was some sort of a time delay for that blood to dry. Now, I'm not a blood splatter analyst

or I can't tell you exactly how much time, you know, it depends where the blood was and what surface it reached, but clearly there was enough time for him to maybe think about what he was going to say or stage the scene, but it's not good for him. What about it? he was going to say or stage the scene,

but it's not good for him. What about it? Joining me also, Alan Duke, the fact the blood was dry. Yeah, you got to think that he didn't stab her then fall back asleep. So he stabbed her, stayed awake, thought about it, and then called 911. We've heard acting jobs like that before. You know, have either of you gone to their We're Getting Married website? Because I'm looking at it right now. Lauren and Matt, our story.

It starts with a new hope, a new beginning. I've been reading this, and Matthew says to her, because they're at Panera Bread, and Matthew says, Do you remember when I worked at the old folks' home wrapping presents? Okay. And they're talking. I'm just learning a lot about them. And he went on to explain that that place had an in-home theater

and thought it would be cool to watch Star Wars Return of the Jedi before going to see Force Awakens coming out that week. That's when they find out they have this huge love of Star Wars Return of the Jedi before going to see Force Awakens coming out that week. That's when they find out they have this huge love of Star Wars. Dave Mack, didn't they incorporate that into their wedding? They actually did, and you can see the pictures on their Facebook page showing their lightsaber dance at the reception. Most of us dance to a slow, beautiful song with our new spouse, and they did a lightsaber dance.

I'm not judging. I am not judging. But I'm just interested in everything about them, about their relationship, about their courtship, what could have gone wrong. And I'll tell you why I'm interested, because of the dried blood. I'm interested because the blood being dried tells me it happened a long time before the 911 call. What has he been doing during that time? Did he make up the defense? Is that what happened?

Did he really just become angry at her over something and stab her? That's what I'm trying to figure out. Because of the dried blood, that spins an entirely different tale. Now that I know, he didn't just turn the light on and call 911. It had been at least an hour or more for that blood to dry before he called 911. He says, I had a dream. I turned on the lights and she's dead on the floor. What do we know? What, if anything, do we know about their relationship, David Mack?

Except they were under a lot of stress financially. Just that night before she had been online doing a Scentsy. S-C-E-N-T-S-Y. I think it's like a candle shop advertisement, trying to sell it from home. So they were scrapping, Dave. I know they had that problem. And, you know, you look at this, both of them, you know, in their late 20s, they hadn't even been married that long. They got married last November.

And, you know, they shared some twenties, they hadn't even been married that long. They got married last November and, you know, they shared some basic, uh, things on the top level. They only dated for about two years, met online. And when you start analyzing the relationship and it does seem sweet, uh, the star Wars thing or the, uh, back to the future thing or whatever there happens to be that bound them together were pretty super, you know, they were right on the top level. What happened in the deeper level? I don't know. She was a huge volunteer with the youth group at her church there in Raleigh, North Carolina. We don't see where he's dug in at a home church. We know that he went to a Bible college, but we're not seeing the effects of what do you do with that degree? He's mowing yards. You would think with a degree in evangelism or in missionary work that that's what he would be doing. Meanwhile, she is involved in her church and teaching Sunday school. We don't see that from his side.

So what was there at a level that gets past the surface level of a relationship? Where was the depth and what was really going on? Only time will tell because we weren't there and don't know. I know she graduated from Appalachian State. She worked as an auditor and she also ran that personal sales business. I guess Scentsy is what they're talking about and that she loved her job according to her family. I'm actually looking at the video right now. It's kind of heartbreaking. Jackie, look at this. Look how cute she is. She's holding up the candle and she's, you know, talking about it. Hold on, Alan, I wish you could play that for us right there if you can

sorry for the barking i probably should um hurry up my phone is dying um but anyways so this is the sensi go it is super super amazing you're cracking me up jennifer um it is super amazing i am obsessed with it i cannot cannot get over it. It has been the light of my life the past couple of weeks having it at my desk, but I better get off of here because my phone is yelling at me. It's about to die, and I don't want to get cut off. So, thank you guys so much for watching, and I will talk to you guys later. Bye! Again, if you go online, you can see their lightsaber thing. They just seem like a fun-loving, happy couple. She was laid to rest one day before Phelps appeared in court for the very first time, and now we are waiting to see justice unfold as he heads back to court.

A DUI turns murder. With me, Crime Online contributing reporter Larry Mayer, and of course, Lee Egan from Crime Online. Larry, what happened? There was a car crash in Eufaula, Alabama. That's in the southeastern part of the state, near the Georgia state line. A 35-year-old woman, Karen Frost, was driving a Honda Accord that crossed a center median and hit an oncoming car.

There were five people in the car with Frost, including her daughter, and she was killed. Malaya Peterson was 10. All six people in the car were injured, including Frost. Police file a murder charge against the mother, Karen Frost. She is also charged with driving under the influence of a controlled substance. That substance has not yet been identified publicly by the police. Frost, referring to as Larry Mayer, contributing reporter at Crime Online, just told us this Ufala woman is now charged with murder in a DUI crash that killed her 10-year-old little girl. We're talking about 35-year-old mom Karen Frost.

The wreck happened just after 8 o'clock. A 1994 Honda Acura, as Larry just told us, crosses the median on Eufaula Avenue, striking another vehicle. Chief Steve Watkins says Frost was the driver of the Honda, and she was among six people in the car, including the 10-year-old little girl Malaya. She was rushed to the medical center barber, where she was then pronounced dead almost immediately. A forensic analysis reveals evidence leading investigators to get a warrant. In addition to murder, she's charged with DUI. When I hear that they rushed to get a warrant, and I think I know what it was for, for her blood. Dr. Bethany, she's also charged with DUI because of a controlled substance. That's not

booze, Dr. Bethany. No, no, it's not. We don't know what it is. Methamphetamine, pot, opioids, there's such an opioid epidemic now. But I want to say, Nancy, regarding this 10-year-old daughter, I mean, a mother's job is to protect her child. That is a mother's primary job. From the time a child comes into the world, she got behind the wheel under the influence of a controlled substance with her 10-year-old daughter in the car. It's so astounding to me. 10,000, approximately 10,000 people die every year in alcohol or substance abuse related crashes. Do you know over half of those people who die are passengers in the vehicles? That really sheds a different light on this. And I'm sure when mom got drunk or used drugs of some sort that night. She never anticipated a murder charge coming out of

it. This is what I know about Malia. She was beautiful. They say she never met a stranger. She was at Eufaula Primary in Abbeville Elementary. We also know that she was an honor roll student and got award after award for perfect conduct on top of it. She never once in her life got a demerit. She was a cheerleader for the Pee Wee teams and secretary of the 4-H club. I got to tell you something, Dr. Bethany, when I heard secretary of the 4-H club, head, heart, hands, and health,

it nearly broke my heart. A 10-year-old little girl, that's Lucy and John David's age, and I loved 4-H. That's where I grew up in rural Georgia. There wasn't a whole lot going on. And I lived for that next 4-H meeting.

And it just opened up a whole world of topics and ideas and activities I didn't know anything about. And between the bookmobile and the 4-H club, that was pretty much it. And the Methodist church up the street, that was my world. And this little 10-year-old girl is dead. For what? You know, for what? A blunt what? For what?

For what? Exactly. And, you know, Nancy, you bring up the 4-H. This little girl is functioning so highly in the world. I mean, she's bright. She's involved. Never met a stranger. All the things that you're describing, and yet she's living in the household with an addict.

You know, where there's smoke, there's fire, as we always say. This is not the first time this mother has gotten behind the wheel high, if not the first time this 10-year-old little girl has had to live with this mother or be in the presence of this mother while the mother is using. So I wonder what situations was this little girl exposed to? You know, for children to be around an adult who's high, especially their own parent, it produces feelings that are almost undigestible to see the parent with their eyes glazed over or stumbling around the house or unresponsive or just to not have that connection with the parent, to know that the parent checked out. So obviously this homicide, this murder, the death of this little girl is the worst of it.

But this girl has been through hell prior to this. She has not had a happy life. She succeeded in life despite the type of mother that she had. You know what's heartbreaking? I want to go back to Larry Mayer, contributing reporter, investigative reporter with CrimeOnline.com. Larry, I was reading about little girl. Malia's dream was to be a pediatrician for underprivileged children in other countries and offer her services for free. Right. She loved her pet bunny, Lola, and her sister. And this is what I found so poignant.

She loved to play dress-up in her mom's high heels. Her mom. That was DUI. And it killed her. Where is the mom right now, Larry Mayer? Well, she was taken into custody. I don't have a report on whether she has made bail or if a bond will even be available to her. Oftentimes on a murder charge, there is no bail.

But this case is going before a grand jury, and it's entirely possible that she wouldn't be granted bail until after a grand jury proceeding was complete. Larry, thank you so much. We are on the case. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.