Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Colonial Parkway Murders Update_ New DNA Links and the CODIS Question

Episode Date: January 25, 2026

Nearly four decades after the Colonial Parkway murders first shocked Virginia, new DNA links have expanded the known scope of the case while raising questions about investigative accountability. In this episode of "Zone 7," Sheryl McCollum is joined by Bill Thomas, whose sister Cathy Thomas was one of the original victims, and Kristin Dilley, his long-time investigative partner and co-host of the podcast, "Mind Over Murder." They walk through the latest DNA identifications tied to Alan Wade Wilmer Sr., the procedural barriers that keep his profile out of CODIS, and the growing divide between state-level momentum and federal inaction. Their discussion centers on what happens when evidence advances while communication and action stall. Enjoying Zone 7? Leave a rating and review where you listen to podcasts. Your feedback helps others find the show and supports the mission to educate, engage, and inspire. Guest Bios: Bill Thomas is a victim advocate and the brother of Cathy Thomas, one of the original victims of the Colonial Parkway murders. For nearly four decades, he has worked with law enforcement, forensic experts, and journalists to seek answers in his sister’s case and accountability for all affected families. Bill is co-host of the podcast, "Mind Over Murder," where he focuses on cold cases, investigative transparency, and the systemic challenges families face in long-term homicide investigations. Kristin Dilley is a true crime podcaster, researcher, writer, and teacher based in Williamsburg, Virginia. Kristin has worked alongside Bill Thomas for more than seven years and is the co-host of "Mind Over Murder," where she examines cold cases with an emphasis on evidence, patterns, and victim-centered accountability. About the Host Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an active crime scene investigator for a Metro Atlanta Police Department and the director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, which partners with colleges and universities nationwide. With more than 4 decades of experience, she has worked on thousands of cold cases using her investigative system, The Last 24/361, which integrates evidence, media, and advanced forensic testing. Her work on high-profile cases, including The Boston Strangler, Natalie Holloway, Tupac Shakur and the Moore’s Ford Bridge lynching, led to her Emmy Award for "CSI: Atlanta" and induction into the National Law Enforcement Hall of Fame in 2023. Social Links: • Email: [e-mail] • Twitter: @149zone7 • Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum • Instagram: @officialzone7podcast Preorder Sheryl’s upcoming book, "Swans Don’t Swim in a Sewer: Lessons in Life, Justice, and Joy from a Forensic Scientist," releasing May 2026 from Simon and Schuster.   Highlights: • (0:00) Sheryl McCollum opens Zone 7by addressing stalled accountability in long- running cold cases • (0:45) Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley return to Zone 7 and reflect on their investigative partnership • (2:00) Bill remembers his sister Cathy Thomas, her Naval Academy legacy, her character, and her friend Rebecca Ann Dowski • (5:15) How advocacy and podcasting have helped families move forward on the Colonial Parkway murders • (9:15) The January 2024 public announcement linking Allen Wade Wilmer Sr. to multiple victims • (10:15) The confirmed DNA connection to Laurie Ann Powell • (13:15) Why Wilmer’s DNA is not in CODIS despite evidence of sexual assault • (17:00) Federal communication failures and the limits of victim services updates • (19:15) The contrast between FBI silence and Virginia State Police persistence • (22:45) Whether Cathy Thomas’s case is closer to resolution and what emerging patterns suggest • (25:15) Evidence handling failures and the long-term consequences for families • (33:15) Closing reflections on persistence, accountability, and the cost of waiting decades for answers  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Well, good evening, y'all. I tell you what, y'all better hang on because tonight we're going to have a conversation and it's going to have a little bit of fireworks for me because I am disgusted. I'm fed up and I'm going to say it. I try to always be glass half full.

I try to be positive. I try to champion. But right is right. And sometimes you've got to call it what it is. And that's what I'm going to do today. So tonight, please help me welcome back to Zone 7. Bill and Kristen, how are you? Because we've had another connection to the Colonial Parkway.

We're doing pretty good, Max. Thank you for having us. We appreciate being on Zone 7 as always. Are you kidding? It's our honor. And I'll tell you, I'm wearing my badass bracelet. that right now that you gave me at CrimeCon, and I appreciate you. Oh, good.

And Bill, like, you know, you and I have had so many conversations, and I just want to remind everybody that I've worked with thousands of victims, y'all. Never, ever, have I worked with somebody that said, what would you do? And I gave them a few things, and within 30 minutes they were doing it, ever. Bill Thomas, don't let no grass grow under his feet. And then he hooks up with this sidekick. And I think she catapulted him into a whole universe that he wasn't expecting to happen.

But together, if you've ever had an opportunity to listen to Mind Over Murder, they just work. They just fit. And they complement each other. And they utilize their strengths. And I just wanted to tell you, it's a beautiful friendship to watch. Oh, thank you. So, Bill, tell us a little bit just for anybody that is brand new about your sister Kathy.

Well, my sister Kathy and her girlfriend, Rebecca Dowski, are the first two victims in the so-called Colonial Parkway murders, which happened from 1986 to 1989 in and around Williamsburg, Virginia, where Kristen Dillies from. And my sister Kathy is one of these people you meet her, you would never forget her. She is smart and funny and dynamic. She had bright red hair and bright blue eyes. And an expression I don't often hear applied to anybody else, but Kathy, she had a peaches and cream complexion is the way it's been described to me. But at the same time, she was. wasn't a girly girl. She was incredibly dynamic and hardworking. She was an honors graduate

from our high school, Lowell High School up in Massachusetts. And then she surprised the rest of the family by announcing at a family dinner that she wanted to go to the Naval Academy. And this was at a time when the service academies, including Annapolis, were just permitting women to attend and graduate from Annapolis. So Kathy was in the second class with women at the United States Naval Academy. So she's very much a pioneer. Now, she's following in my family's footsteps, our dad Joe Thomas, who died a few years ago, as a 1953 graduate of the Naval Academy. And then our older brother Richard graduated in 1975. And then Kathy, who's six years younger, than Richard graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1981 with the second group of women to graduate from Annapolis.

Impressive. And, like you said, dynamic. You're not going to forget her. No, no, no way. She was an amazing person. She was funny and smart and optimistic and incredibly hardworking. The reason why Kathy Thomas succeeded at everything she did during her short 27 years on the planet was because she worked harder than anyone you'd ever met to see things through. So it didn't matter whether it was academics in high school or at the Naval Academy or athletics, again, both in high school and at Annapolis. She worked harder than anyone you ever met. And nothing ever stopped her.

She just kept going and going. Well, that runs deep in the Thomas family. I've seen it in you. There ain't no quitting you. I've seen you go after things and meet people and try things and demand things. It's been unbelievable. And, you know, Kristen, when y'all teamed up, y'all hit it on a level I have not seen,

but you helped Bill, I think, tremendously. make sure that people, one, knew about the Colonial Parkway murders because a lot of people had never heard of it. And then you made sure that not only did y'all hit the media and podcast and magazines and TV, but y'all started a podcast. You know, I have Bill to thank for encouraging me to step out of my comfort zone and do a podcast. It is not the middle of life second job that I ever thought I would have. And I'm assuming both of you probably feel the same way, because podcasting kind of snuck up on all of us. But, you know, I have Bill to thank for the bounty that I have around me, the wonderful friends that I've made. And the difference that I feel

I can make in this case. And it has been, you know, not just a pleasure, but an honor to be able to, you know, serve the families in this case this way with Bill. It's been, I think, probably the most excellent thing that I've done with my life so far. And I do think that our partnership, like on the surface, it doesn't seem like a woman in her 40s and a gentleman of a certain age. I won't spill your age, Bill. It should get along as well as we do and work as well as we do. but, you know, I consider Bill one of my closest friends. I talk to him almost every day, and there's nothing that we don't share. And so I think our partnership works really well, and, you know, I'm thrilled to be able to help these families

and move this case forward however I can. Well, y'all've done that in the case did get some traction. So a person of interest was named in some of the murders of the Colonial Parkway. Tell us about that. When this name came out, y'all get a call. It's not connected to Kathy yet. But this person comes up. They were able to connect them to some of the murders.

Tell us about that. Want me to jump in here? Yeah, go ahead, Bell. I think you're best suited to do this part. Okay. So a couple of months before the announcement was made public, we had heard from sources inside the investigation that the Virginia State Police, who handle two of the double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders,

together with the FBI, but the FBI appeared to be taking a secondary role, they handle two other double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders. So we're talking about eight young people so far, and there's more being added as we speak. We got the advance word that they were looking at two men, one deceased, one still alive at that time, who were watermen who lived up in Lancaster County, Virginia, which is about an hour and a half north of the area we associate with the colonial parkway murders, which is closer to Williamsburg. Now, as soon as they started telling us what they knew about these two potential suspects, my alarm bells started going off because as soon as they said two Watermen from Lancaster County, Virginia, I said, wait a minute. These two guys were questioned in 1988, two years after my sister Kathy and Rebecca Dowski died. and right in the middle of the Colonial Parkway murders.

So although I never knew their names, I remembered my father talking to me about this in 1988, about two Watermen from Lancaster County. So what developed then was in January, 24, the Virginia State Police, along with the FBI and the Hampton Police Department, announced that a waterman named Almond, Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr., had been identified as the offender in one of the Colonial Parkway murders.

And that's the 1987 murder of Robin Edwards and David Knobly. And they've also linked Wilmer via DNA to the murder of a woman we were not familiar with at that time. Her name was Teresa Lynn Spaw Howell. We'll call her Teresa Howell for short. So now there's a third victim who was not considered part of the Colonial Parkway murders. So all of this was announced in January, 2024. So coming up on two years ago now. And Kristen, now there's a new connection.

What is the new connection? Yeah. In about mid-November, we received some information. that the Virginia State Police was going to announce in a press conference that they had linked Lurie Ann Powell, and that is a name that we had heard before. I'll explain that connection in a second to Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. via DNA. Now, alarm bells, as Bill said, earlier went off for both of us because Laurie Ann Powell is a name that we are both familiar with. For many years, the amount of time that Bill and I have worked together,

we've considered the murders of Laurie Ann Powell and Brian Pettinger, which bookend the Robin Edwards and David Knobling case and the Keith Colin Cassander Haley case. We've always considered them to potentially be a part of the Colonial Parkway murders. I termed the phrase, parkway adjacent cases. And we have always wondered and speculated on the podcast, Could these two cases be, you know, done by the same person? Could they be connected to the cases?

But you made great points. Not only are they bookends. You're talking about time, location, method. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And so we got confirmation that Lorraine Powell had been linked to Wilmer via DNA.

And it would turn out later that that DNA came from, a sexual assault kit that had been taken on Laurie. And that was the first that any of us had heard that she had been sexually assaulted. So now we have four victims that are positively linked to Allen Wade-Wilmer Sr., and that also brings our victim count from eight, the four original double homicides, to 10,

because now we have Terry Howell and Lori Ann Powell. So the question now becomes with four people positively linked to Wilmer via DNA, when are we going to get answers on how many of the other Colonial Parkway Murders cases are linked to him and how many other potential victims are out there? Because Bill and I both think he has many more victims than, you know, have even begun to be accounted for. And I join you in that. I've said from day one, you're looking at double digits. So here's the deal.

I'm going to start with something positive. This is great police work. They didn't get the first two victims and just let their foot off the gas. They didn't say, hey, we've identified this person. We've put his name out there. Great job. We're going to move on to something else. I think that's fantastic.

I think that's exactly what should happen. You work it until you can connect every single victim that you possibly can. Agreed. Agreed. Here comes my negative. Why in the world is Wilmer's DNA not in CODIS?

Y'all heard me? Y'all heard me. I hope nobody just ran their car off the road. Wilmer's DNA is not in CODIS. Now, we know we have a sexual assault victim bill. We know nobody rapes one time. We know that. Why would they not insist that he go into CODIS

when all these rape kits are being put into CODIS? Well, here's the story as we understand it. And we're not saying we accept this, but this is what we're being told. Because Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr., and we want to be careful. We always say senior because there is an Alan Wade Wilmer Jr., his son, who was a little kid when the murders took place. But we always differentiate because Wade, the son, is not the father. Because Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr., died in December 2017 of natural causes at his home up in Lancaster, Virginia, he had never been charged with a crime. So he's

His DNA is not in the CODA system. So we're being told by law enforcement, Virginia State Police and FBI, that they cannot put Wilmer's DNA into the CODA system. We think this is insane. I mean, why are we protecting the rights of a dead serial killer over the rights of all of the families in the Colonial Park by murders who've been waiting 36 to 39 years for answers in this case? we think this is absolutely unacceptable. Strangely, the CODIS rules and regs are created at the state level, which is, again, something that we believe needs to be fixed. We think we should have one set of standards for the entire country. But right now, they cannot put Wilmer's DNA into CODIS.

They can do a one-to-one comparison, but that's very slow and cumbersome. And we think that given how long the family has been waiting, the last thing we need is slow and cumbersome. All right. Let's go to part two. I got a buddy. And we used to laugh and joke back in the day that the next jobs we apply for, we're going to put people down as our references like Michelle Obama. you're never going to get Michelle Obama on the phone. You're not going to get to somebody close enough to her to verify whether or not she knows me, right? So we're just sitting around drinking wine laughing, like these are going to be our retirement jobs,

and we're just going to put ridiculous people that we know, obviously, don't know us, but nobody can ever verify that because, A, Michelle's too powerful and she's too busy, and you're not going to be able to get her. It's a great idea. Thank you. Thank you. So, y'all look forward to those applications when I start putting them in next year. So here's the deal, y'all.

I will openly admit that Michelle Obama does not know me. I will admit that she is too busy to return an email if I were to send her one. There is no excuse in an FBI agent at any level, not responding to a victim's family. And I'm going to say it again. There is no excuse.

If Bill Thomas reaches out to you on the status of his sister's case, you ain't too busy, you ain't too powerful, your job ain't too important, that you cannot respond to him. That is your job. That should be a requirement. So I'm going to tell you,

I think everybody listening to me should email that person and say, hey, what's up with Kathy Thomas's case? We should call you every day and find out what's up with Kathy Thomas's case. You could not bother to call Bill back. Maybe you could call the 10,000 of us back. I love it. I think that's a great idea. Well, unfortunately, today's FBI. Now, remember, we've been dealing with the FBI, my family now, for 39 years.

We've been through different administrations, different heads of the FBI. And I'm not saying I would talk to the director of the FBI. But we have found that generally they tried to be very responsive. Kathy and Becky's case, my sister Kathy and Rebecca Dowski's case, is considered a federal case because their bodies were found inside the Colonial Parkway National Park. And if you die inside a national park, that's considered an FBI case, therefore a federal case from the beginning. This new team that took over in January are absolutely horrible. They refuse to speak to us, and I mean literally refused to speak to us.

they tell us nothing. And the only communication we have with the FBI is once a month, like clockwork, a very nice young woman from victim services, calls me to tell me she has nothing to tell me every single month. Now, victim services is a department that's designed to, and I say this respectfully, handhold victims of violent crime in cases that the FBI is working with. At this point, we don't need handholding. We need facts. We need updates.

We need status reports. And we're receiving absolutely none. And we've even got this bizarre situation now where the senior person in charge of our case, he refuses to give me his email address. I've told him flat out. I questioned his professionalism because I'm not going to hold back at this point. What do I have to lose? I'm already off the Christmas card list at the time.

Yep. And Kristen is too, by the way. I feel bad. Oh, I've been off the Christmas card list since I started working with you, pal. I was never under any thought that I would be. Well, I'm not afraid of the FBI either. My name is Nancy Grace, G-R-A. Wait a minute now, man.

I'm just teasing. It's Cheryl McCollum. You know where I am. And I'm telling you, you know, if this was a case that they were going to be able to announce another connection, Cash Patel would tweet about it. They would do a big press conference. Well, if it's something you're going to take credit for, it's something you need to respond to before you're taking credit for something. not communicating with the families is not acceptable, period.

And this is not just a Bill Thomas thing. This is all of the Colonial Parkway murders families. Interestingly, and I want to give credit, and I'll try to be like Mack here and balance my negatives with some positives. The Virginia State Police, who handled two of the double homicides in the Colonial Parkway murders, they're kind of pressing down hard on the gas, and I mean that in a complementary way. They're actually going out, applying for the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative grants, Saki grants, and getting the money and sending out evidence in the Colonial Parkway murders for independent labs. Primarily, they've been using our friends at DNA Labs International down in Florida.

and they're having some success here. They're breaking through with really tough, difficult DNA samples that are left after all these years. A number of these victims were dumped in the water. And so it's a very challenging older sample with sometimes degraded with sea water, sometimes very small amounts of DNA left. and yet they're moving this case forward with the initiatives from the Virginia Department of Forensic Science and the Virginia State Police. So we have to give them a lot of credit. It's taking longer than I would like.

I'm not generally a patient person, but at the same time, they're getting results, which we're not seeing at all on the FBI side of this case. Bill, are we any closer to solving? Kathy's case? I think we are, and I'd love Kristen to weigh in, too. We think the fact that we're seeing some very powerful patterns emerge now in these first four identified linked via DNA victims. So there's a lot of potential here for future progress, I'll call it, in the Colonial Parkway murders. Now, Kristen, before you weigh in, I have a question. for both of you. Kathy had hair in the palm of her hand. Is there any way if they can't get a full DNA profile? Can they say whether or not the hair is consistent? Can they say it's the right

color, the right texture, anything to Wilmer? Well, if they would answer our hundreds of questions, I would be able to answer that question. I feel like an idiot that I cannot answer that question, but they refuse, and they, as the FBI, refuse to give us a clear, concise answer as to what the status is regarding the testing of the hair that was found in my sister's hand at autopsy. Now, obviously, that hair could be Kathy's hair. It could be Becky's hair. You know, imagine two people struggling. Or it could be the offender's hair. But we've been asking for years for a status report and they keep refusing. Well, and there was a point in time where Bill was getting four different answers on the

hair. Yes, there was hair. No, there wasn't hair. There was one really memorable moment in time where they said it was animal hair. And it has been just trying to get them to even acknowledge, yes, there was hair definitively in her hand. Like, Bill, the last time that they talked to you, were they even on yes there was definitely hair were they still on no there isn't you're imagining

things um you know they've had so many different stories i finally blew up at one point and my mom would not be proud of me for this i remember you know just blowing up and saying you guys on a conference call you guys can't even keep your eff and lies straight you've had five different stories on the hair in my sister's hand which one is it so I hesitate, and people ask us all the time about the hair because we've pointed out this and a number of other problems in this investigation in terms of missed opportunities, discarded evidence. They burned my sister and Becky Dowski's rape kits as medical waste eight years after they were murdered. And I mean that literally. They burned my sister and Becky's rape kits as medical waste per order.

of the FBI. You can't make this stuff up. Right. Right. I mean, it's horrifying. And, you know, your sister and her girlfriend were placed in the trunk of the car. That means the killer had to have grabbed them by their clothing in different places to get that done. And that's when you and I first talked about the MVAT.

And again, the next thing I knew, y'all, here Bill was meeting with Jared Bradley. It was awesome. But I'm like, Lord, I just told him about him. And now they're meeting and Bill is seeing the in-bat in action. But I don't believe either at the shoulders or the waist of her pants or the cuffs of her jeans that, you know, there's not going to be DNA from where that person grabbed her and threw her in the car. Yeah, without question. And both of these women, both my sister Kathy and her girlfriend Becky, they're not tiny 95-pound women. They're both very tall, very athletic.

They were both championship level athletes. Kathy's like 5, 6, 135, maybe even 140 pounds, depending on how much running she was doing. Becky's even taller and also extremely athletic. So these are not small, petite women. And you're absolutely right. To pick Kathy's body up and fold her up into the hatchback area of a Honda Civic, required a significant amount of contact. You'd have to do some sort of, you know, like firemen's carry or, you know, cradle her, dead body in your arms in order to place her inside the car.

And they were clearly killed outside the vehicle. And Kathy ends up in what we called the way back when we were kids. But it's small. It's a 1980 Honda Civic. And then Becky's in the back seat. So a significant amount of effort and physical contact would have been required in order to move these two women from outside the car where they were likely killed to inside the car where their bodies were found. That's right. And nobody back then was thinking of DNA.

That wasn't a factor. So they wouldn't have gloves or any of that madness on. And, you know, to me, again, you're talking about no less than six different points on both of their bodies. Well, we were promised DNA results regarding the touch DNA and these areas where they thought that Kathy and Becky, their bodies would have made contact with the offender or offenders. We were promised results well over a year ago, and we still have nothing. We, you know, we keep asking questions, and I feel like an idiot when I'm talking about this stuff. They just refuse to answer our questions. Well, I'm just going to say again, the fact that Wilmer's DNA is not in CODIS,

I can't even begin to tell you how disgusting that is to me. And, you know, I look at like the Amber Alert. If we have a child that is missing that doesn't meet the Amber Alert qualifications, you still contact the media. You still let surrounding agencies know this child is missing. and you put their picture on social media, you don't just go, well, it doesn't meet Amber, so, oh, well, no. There's got to be a backdoor way to test these rape kits against his DNA.

There has to be. We should not have to wait for legislation to be passed for something to be done. I mean, Kristen, am I crazy? No, you're not. You're not crazy. And I think that it is built, Look, Bill and I are happy to do this work. This is something that brings both of us, I think, a good sense of purpose.

But it should not be up to the families and the friends of murder victims to push forward for legislation and for change. Again, we're happy to do it because we have to do it. But it shouldn't be up to us. We should not be the ones driving this. It should be up to the FBI. Yeah, Bill don't work for the FBI. Yeah, neither of us do. We just happen to be too loudmouthed people who started a podcast. Right. But the FBI should be working for him. Yes, exactly. I mean, you know, there's this whole concept that the FBI is here to protect and serve, that all police is here to protect and serve. And the VSP, you know, Bill said this before and I'll go ahead and reiterate it again. The VSP is doing a fantastic job here because they, as you said earlier, Mack, they haven't let off the gas. And, you know, my understanding with the investigative team that are working on this is that they're going to continue to seek as many answers as possible.

But I don't know why. And maybe there is behind the scenes, and I don't know, but I don't know why there isn't a Alan Wade-Wilmer task force, which is calling on everybody locally and not just in Virginia, but in D.C., in Maryland, in North Carolina, even as far as South Carolina. to say, hey, if y'all have cold cases that look like they could match him, bring him forward. We need to figure out where this guy was going. But he's got a boat. He could go anywhere up the coast, down the coast. We're right here at the intercoastal waterway. He could go as far down as Florida.

We don't know the scope of this guy's crimes. There should be a task force somewhere encouraging people bring all your stuff to us. We'll sort it out. But it shouldn't be up for us to make those recommendations. And what's frustrating, too, is that he had an older brother, William Keith Wilmer, who went by his middle name, Keith, and he died at the end of April 2025. Now, my understanding from the FBI is that he did voluntarily give up his DNA, and they have the middle brother, Alan Wade Wilmer, Sr. They also have a younger brother who's also deceased. But because the FBI is dragging its feet to a point that is insane, now we have a situation where suspects are dying one after another when they should be properly investigated while they're still alive.

Well, Bill, Kristen, I tell you, we all stand with y'all. We are all going to keep champion and pushing this thing. and here's the thing, if anybody in the FBI is listening, Bill ain't going nowhere. I hate to tell you all. Nope. So if it were me, I would probably send him an email. I might call him.

Heck, I might knock on the door and maybe sit on the front porch with him and see if you can't explain the behavior in the past, but tell him what you're going to do going forward. And I don't mean have a victim advocate call him once a month to say there's nothing new to say. Wholeheartedly agree with that. But Bill and Kristen, I appreciate you. Bill, we're going to stand with you in fight,

so whether it's legislation or making phone calls or, you know, using our resources and our media to help make sure people understand what's going on and the way that the families of the Colonial Parkway, the way you're being treated is just unconscionable. There's no excuse. There's nothing they could ever say that would make that okay.

Well, thank you. We appreciate it. Y'all, I'm going to end Zone 7, the way that I always do with a quote. The delays are just unconscionable at this point. This can't take years every single time. Bill Thomas, brother of Kathy Thomas. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone 7. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.