Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'COOL MOM' Has Teens Young as 13 to DRINK, PERFORM SEX ACTS at 'Parties'

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Shannon O'Connor throws wild parties for her teenage sons at their Los Gatos, California mansion. O'Connor pressures teens as young as 13 to binge drink, smoke marijuana, and perform sex acts with each other, 'consensual' or not, while she watches. O'Connor keeps the parties a secret from other parents and her own husband, even continuing them at a new address in Idaho. O'Connor now awaits trial on 39 felony charges, including child endangerment and sexual battery. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Sam Dordulian - Sexual Assault Attorney, Former Los Angeles County Sex Crimes Prosecutor, and Founder of Dordulian Law Group; Twitter: @DordulianLaw  Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta, Ga.; Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022 Michael Bock - Former NYPD sergeant detective squad supervisor of special victims, owner of ‘First Rate Investigations ‘that specializes in adult survivors and child survivor civil cases;' Twitter:@F_R_Consulting Anna Sonoda - Child Grooming Expert, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, and Author: “Duck Duck Groom: Understanding How a Child Becomes a Target”  Drew Penner - Reporter at the Los Gatan Newspaper; Twitter: @losgatan See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Wild booze and sex-fueled parties become the talk of the town, but what is also talked about is the fact that the party goers are as young as 13, 14, and 15. You heard me right. Wild booze and sex-fueled parties for teens. All at the home of the so-called cool mom. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. I can't help but think about the movie Mean Girls with Lindsay Lohan.

And the cool mom would just let the girls do whatever they wanted. She was a little mean herself. And played into drugs and alcohol and sex. Well, art imitates life. Take a listen to our friends at NBC. The first complaint about Shannon O'Connor to Los Gatos High School came from a parent in December 2020, according to internal school emails obtained

exclusively by the investigative unit. Shannon Bruga or O'Connor buys alcohol for teenagers. My daughter overdosed on edibles. Then-enterum principal Paul Robinson responded the same day. We will follow up on this and inform the police. Two months later, February 17th, a different parent sent an assistant principal a detailed multi-page email saying she had just filed a police parties, and criminal contact by the cool mom with a girl student age 14. What in the hay? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I want to go to Drew Penner, investigative reporter with the Lusgatan newspaper.

Drew, thank you for being with us. Who is this, quote, cool mom? It doesn't sound cool to me. It sounds criminal. Does she have a child? Oh, yeah, definitely. This is Shannon O'Connor. She has other names that she's gone by in the past,

Shannon Bruga, Shannon Amaral. But she is a local woman here from the Los Gatos area, and that's in Silicon Valley. And she gained a reputation over the months for being, as you said, someone that would have parties and someone who would invite folks over to her house that were younger than maybe you would invite over to your house. And that's putting it lightly. And she does have children.

She's got two teen sons, 13 and 15. And, you know, to Dr. Angie Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, you can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. You heard what Drew Penner just told us, that everybody in the neighborhood knew. Rumor, gossip. They knew what was going on. But did anybody stop it? Not until things got even more out of hand. In addition to what Drew Penner told us, Angie, how many times have I told the children, starting at a very young age, about drugs and alcohol? All the time.

What it does to you. Yeah. Cases I've seen in court. Specifically, I remember when I was a brand new assistant district attorney, I was taking a guilty plea of this beautiful woman. And she was taking a plea, DU HV habitual violator and I looked around for her family there was no family but I knew she was married with three children alcohol cost her her stockbroker's license that she worked so hard for had worked her way up the ladder in that business. She had a horrible car crash when drunk.

Her husband divorced her and he got custody of three children because of alcohol. And I remember she just stood there in court just like she was numb, like she didn't even cry. You know, like when you take the dog to the vet and they have to get a shot and they sit on the table, they know something bad is about to happen, but they just sit there stoically. That's what she looked like. Alcohol.

And this is a mom with teens throwing this kind of party, not just alcohol, but drugs and sex. So Nancy, why would no one have said anything? Because look at all the other people that can be hurt by not saying anything, starting with the offender. She needed help. Okay, you know, why did I ask you a question? She does not need help. She needs jail because these aren't just wild parties.

This is sex assault, child molestation, felony child endangerment. So I don't know what you're talking about. She needs help. Well, she needs a nice long vacation in the pen, in the big dollhouse, so she can think about her actions. But Nancy, at the very least, if the neighbors knew what was going on and they didn't know the extent to what was going on... Oh, please! Have you ever seen Bewitched? Yes, no. Yes.

Have you? Yes. Then you're familiar with Gladys Kravitz, right? The nosy neighbor who who knows everything you want to tell me these neighbors didn't know exactly what was happening hearing teens screaming and cavorting in the backyard around the keg oh they knew but this is my question Drew Penner back to Los Gatos newspaper Drew I understand that the first complaints were made to the school principal and then an assistant principal. Is that correct? Yeah, you know, this has been an interesting case in our town because it's sparked off a whole discussion around what we do, you know, when people are having parties in their own private home. But then it's, you know, the ramifications can spill out into the public sphere, including, as you mentioned, at the high school.

And, you know, there's stories that we're hearing and that have come out through the, you know, throughout the various discussions that we've been hearing is that basically, you know, Shannon O'Connor had a really good way of manipulating the whole situation basically um you know being able to spin things one way and in fact enlisting the children that she was inviting and many say manipulating over to her house into kind of going on the forefront and helping her spread false stories in order to continue her behavior and you know you know, that's something that we hear time and time again. And, you know, the extent to which perhaps the authorities at the school should have done more, that's been a hot-button issue. So that over into even the local councils come up indirectly as well. And, yeah, it's been the talk of the town.

You know, that's a really good point. I'm going to go to Anna Sinoda, a child grooming expert. But first, let me just swing to Sam Dordulian. He is a renowned attorney, former L.A. County prosecutor and founder of the Dordulian Law Group. You can find him at Dlawgroup.com. Sam, thanks for being with us. Just thinking through what Drew Penner told us from the Laskatan, you know, Sam, here's the rub, here's the fly in the ointment. So you have the parents, they are speaking out to the wrong person. They contact the school principal and the assistant principal. So do they get the idea they're doing the right thing? And how much can a school really control what students or, quote,

cool moms are doing off school premises, Sam Dordulian? Yeah, Nancy, and actually that's a good question. Why didn't they call the police? And I think it's a lot to do with who this person is. If this was a male, if this was a male, if this was a teacher, if this was a coach, a male coach, I think people would react differently because she's a woman, because she's a mom in particular. I think they're treating it differently. They're contacting the school instead of contacting the police. I mean, you brought up the word grooming. This is the definition of grooming. It doesn't have to be a male teacher or coach or a priest.

She was grooming not just the children, but the other parents, the whole community with her conduct. So I think a lot has to do with who she is as a woman and as a mom. You know, you just struck me to the core as a mom because um you know anna sonota uh going from sam dordulian dr angie arnold andrew pinner let me tell you who anna sonota is child grooming expert uh clinical social worker author of duck duck groom understanding how a of Duck, Duck Groom, Understanding How a Child Becomes a Target. And you can find her at AnnaSonota.com. Anna, I want you to take a listen to our friend Amanda Del Castillo.

Shannon O'Connor, the Los Gatos mother, is accused of throwing drunken parties where she encouraged young teens to participate in sex acts, sometimes non-consensual, and sometimes while she watched.

The teens, mostly 14 and 15 years old, included her own son. O'Connor would use Snapchat or text to invite them to her home, warning the teens to keep silent or she could go to jail. It's not exactly your classic grooming, but it has all the elements of a classic grooming, luring, desensitizing the victim where this little 14 year old girl says, well, everybody else is doing it. The mom is sitting there watching me having a sex act with her son. So maybe it's not as bad as I thought because the mom thinks it's okay. And then getting them, getting a vow of silence,

warning them not to speak out. Nancy, this is a gruesome, gruesome example of grooming. And just so that everybody's on the same page, grooming is the intentional and selective process of using assumed trust to gain access and space with an identified prey. And it is a process of entrapping a child. So we've got to set the trap with compliments. These children were selected. She was pre-vetting the girls who were attending these parties. Then you've got to bait the trap with favors. So giving the kids things they want, like access to free food, alcohol. Then you've essentially rigged the trap with guilt. Here are these kids who are breaking rules that their parents have for them. And then you've got to keep that trap shut with threats.

You can't tell anybody, keep this a secret. So worse than being a cool mom, she was perceived and the community defaulted to her being a safe mom. And she was the one who was communicating with other parents to confirm that she would be in attendance and she would be supervising. And this is why parents need to keep a keen eye to show up at places where their kids are going. And when in doubt, verify, even if it means showing up. I'm just trying to drink in everything that you just said. Whenever the twins have anybody over throughout the evening or the afternoon or whatever it may be, I like to take

pictures of them and send to the mom because that's what I like. I don't know if the other moms even want that, but I like that to see what the twins are doing when they're not at home and make sure they're safe and alive. I haven't even thought about an adult plying them with alcohol and drugs and having sex with them. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Please join us now on Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of Evil, The Bundy and Idaho Killings. In this gripping special investigation, we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes.

We speak with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas, who describe their life before and after they were victims of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private investigator Bill Warner, who worked in the cases, and Ted Bundy's defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We travel to Moscow, Idaho, to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors of Brian Koberger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Koberger. Don't miss Parallels of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho killings, streaming now exclusively on Fox Nation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace You know, wait a minute. Michael Bott joining me,

former NYPD Sergeant, Detective Squad Supervisor, a special victims unit, owner of First Rate Investigations, and that specializes in adult and child survivor civil cases at FirstRateInvestigationsAndConsulting.com. That is a mouthful, Michael Bach. I want you to change that website immediately. Hey, Michael, I know you've dealt with a lot of cases where adults molest children. I rarely see, I don't know that I've ever seen. I've got to think this thing through. I've seen female sex predators on children. But for a mom, a cool mom, and I'm talking about Amy Poehler, who I adore. Amy Poehler, who played the cool mom June George in Mean Girls.

Hilarious, but this is not funny in the least. Michael Bach, have you ever seen a case where the mom lures in the child victims to have sex with teen boys while she sits there and watches? It's not a frequent occurrence, especially inside the city. I'd say this is probably more of a suburban issue than it would be inside the city with apartments and stuff. So it's not a common case that we would come across in the city. I don't think I've ever come across anything quite like it. And these people, Michael Bach, I mean, this is Silicon Valley with all of that tech money just rolling around. The median income in this area is $167,000. That's

the median. Yeah, it's big money. Yeah, they've got a lot of money to roll around in and a lot of money to throw parties with for children. I mean, Dr. Angie, you hear Michael Buck speaking. What frame of mind is that where a grown woman gets sex gratification off of watching little girls and teen boys have sex in her home? Oh, Nancy, this is such a horrible subject, isn't it? Yes, but I was expecting a little something a little more clinical from you than this is horrible. Yeah, I know it's horrible. I can ask anybody on the street that, Dr. Angie. I know it's horrible. But what kind of a criminal mind is that? These kind of people can suffer from a very low self-esteem. Oh, dear Lord in heaven.

Low self-esteem? Well, I mean, Nancy, you asked for a definition. She's a child molester. Well, okay. But we have to kind of look at all of the things that can... First of all, female child predators are on the rare side. Okay? They can have antisocial personality disorder. They can have very poor social skills. They can have PTSD from something or another. Don't even try to make me feel badly for her. I'm really not. Rejection, low self-esteem. I'm not. How about child molester? Here is Dr. Jackie and you're waving a sign saying voyeurism. Okay. You know what that is, right, Dr. Angie? I

mean, you are the strength. Yes, I do. Now, to be a psychiatrist, don't you have to be a medical doctor and a psychiatrist? I'm a medical doctor. Okay, and I'm having to tell you the word voyeurism? And, Nancy, I've had to treat women who were female sexual predators. I've treated only a very few because only a very few exist. What is wrong with them? Not that the state has to prove motive

or kick around inside the mind of a perpetrator, but it's very hard for me to take in. I know it exists, but it's hard for me to take in. But doesn't it also sound like this woman, this particular criminal, was exerting a lot of control over her victims? They were very young.'s 47 they're 13 and 14 years old you know she's got to she's got to be getting some sort of sexual pleasure out of

this at the at the very baseline i've already said that that was my question that i formed for you. What grown woman enjoys watching little children have forced sex? A very sick grown woman. Once again, I knew that myself and I am not an MD. Nancy, she may have been abused in her past. Oh dear, you know what, just go ahead and cut her mic because all you're doing is whine, whine, whine about how badly this was. I still hear her. Hello? I'm going to give you a moment to reconsider your opinion, Dr. Angela Arnold. What more do we know? Take a listen to our friends at KRON4. O'Connor has two sons, ages 13 and 15, the same age range that the victims are in this case.

Deputies in Idaho determined her sons were in imminent danger and placed them under the custody of the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare. Law enforcement first began to investigate O'Connor after a boy was injured when he fell from her SUV in the Los Gatos High School parking lot. The district attorney said O'Connor went to great lengths to keep the party's secret from other parents, law enforcement, and her own husband. She would only invite teens over to the house for a wild night of drinking when she knew her husband would not be home. She communicated with students using Snapchat. So I didn't realize this, Drew Penner, she was married and the husband

knew nothing about what was going on? Well, that's kind of an open question. You know, there's some evidence that shows that she seemed to be hiding the beer cans or whatnot from her husband prior to him getting home. So he didn't find out about these parties that were going on. On the other hand, there does seem to be, you know, a close connection between them. They are co-defendants in a previous action. And, you know, so that is something that is still coming out. It's really hard for me to believe that he had no idea what was going on.

Guys, I want you to listen to this. Sam Dordulian, sex assault lawyer, former L.A. County sex crimes prosecutor. Now, this is going down in Los Gatos, California, and a very prestigious community. Parties also took place in Santa Cruz and Lake Tahoe, where the cool mom mom Shannon O'Connor would ply 14 and 15 year olds with vodka and then hand out condoms encourages my encouraging minors to have sex and laughing when the teens would engage in sex acts, many of which allegedly were non-consensual. Take a listen to our cut for KGO. Investigators say the party spanned from June 2020 to May 2021 and often

involved O'Connor pushing the teens to drink until they became sick or blacked out. The DA's office says some of the assaults against the young victims happened while they were drunk. Documents show teens also told authorities drinking led to heavy vomiting, a broken finger, and a girl reporting she almost drowned in a hot tub. In a release, DA Jeff Rosen said it took a lot of brave children to come forward and to untangle this deeply disturbing case. In another case, the DA's office says O'Connor let a teen drive her SUV in the Los Gatos High parking lot while two other teens held onto the back. One fell off, knocked unconscious. Okay, also take a listen to Amy Larson, KRON.

A 47-year-old mom is accused of throwing sex parties at her Los Gatos mansion. She pressured underage teenagers to binge drink and encouraged boys to have consensual and non-consensual sex with girls, according to the Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office. Investigators said dozens of Los Gatos high school students went to Shannon O'Connor's disturbing parties

between June of 2020 and May of this year. The mom recently moved to Attic County in Idaho, where she continued to invite teens over to her new house. Detectives told me that when they went to the house to arrest her last weekend, there were 12 underage teenagers with her, most of whom had spent the night. So let me understand this, Drew Penner, the students would actually spend the night in the home? Well, some of these parties would go on for an awful long time. And, you know, at one point I tried knocking on the doors of some of the neighbors' homes,

and they didn't really want to say too much to me about what they had seen or hadn't seen. I don't know if people felt guilty for not saying things sooner, or, you know, maybe they did keep certain things under wrap. But, you know, there's definitely a lot of questioning, even by Shannon O'Connor, who is, you know, Googling, as we have reported, you know, things like what to do with a concussion in a teenager. And, you know, can a concussion cause eye problems? And, you know, people and investigators seem to think that that may be related to that car incident. Exactly. You had just heard about there on that news report. Guys, it's not the first time a mom has broken the law in order to be the cool mom at the school.

Take a listen to our cut 27. At 40 years old, Sherilyn McDonald wanted to be known as the Cool Mom. She wanted the kids to call her Cher, invited boys to be a part of family outings and more. The former Cool Mom is now behind bars, charged with engaging in sexual activity with a minor, encouraging sex among minors, six felony charges of lewd and lascivious battery, and three counts of contributing to the delinquency of a child. The cool mom party came to an end when a real mom saw that her teenage son was getting text

messages from McDonald. That real mom questioned her son, found out about teens playing beer pong at McDonald's and turned it all over to police. The investigation is ongoing and McDonald could face additional charges. McDonald not alone. Take a listen to our cut 20. Our friends at WSB. A Georgia mother is facing charges after officials say she hosted a party with drugs and alcohol for her teenage daughter and her friends. According to an incident report, Rachel Lynn Linhart, sponsor from Alcoholics Anonymous, came officials about the incident. And the woman said Linhart allowed a group of minors to drink and smoke marijuana at her home in Evans, Georgia, near Augusta.

The woman claimed Linhart played naked twister with the teens and engaged in sexual relations with an 18-year-old and her daughter's 16-year-old boyfriend. She's charged with two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and has been released on bond. Sam Dordulian joining a sex assault lawyer, former L.A. County sex crimes prosecutor, naked twister with a bunch of teen girls and boys in your home. I mean, I cringed when I heard Dr. Angela Arnold talking about, oh, she's got low self-esteem. She's probably been rejected. I don't care. This is child molestation. I mean, Dordulian,

do you have any children? I have two children. In fact, one are about the same age as these kids. At 13, going to the mom's house down the street and then to find out later she was egged into sex acts and given drugs and alcohol by the so-called cool mom, I would do a backflip. Yeah, I can't even imagine it. And look, Nancy, in 25 plus years I've been doing sex crimes, I haven't heard a story like this. And again, I think a lot has to do, the reason why this continued and was allowed to fester

and she was allowed to do all these things is because of her status as a mom, as a woman. I've prosecuted a lot of these cases. I've tried in civil court a lot of these cases. You don't see a lot of sexual predators who are women. I do have them. I've had them before. Nothing like this. And we have an inherent trust of mothers, don't see a lot of sexual predators who are women. I do have them. I've had them before. Nothing like this. And we have an inherent trust of mothers, don't we?

You know, you believe, you want to believe, especially since she's a mom of someone, a child of your child's age, she's not going to hurt them. She's going to protect them. That's what we all want to believe. And I think that belief allowed this to continue. And the reason why, you know, parents are going to the school instead of the police, we have a different impression of female sexual offenders. But they're just as dangerous as we see in this particular case. Well, you know, an interesting point, Sam Durdulian. If a dad was throwing a party, I don't know how many teen girls' parents would even let them go.

I wouldn't. I certainly wouldn't let my daughter go. I have a distrust of males. O-H-E-L-L-N-O. I say you're not going to a party at some pervy dad's house. That's not happening. Oh, okay. Cringe.

You know, I want to go back to Dr. Angeli Arnold. I guess we can turn our mic back on. You know, you've given me just enough information over the years to throw something back at you. You're talking about how she has low self-esteem and low self-worth and was probably rejected in her life. I assume the next thing you're going to say is this is a desperate cry for help. How about a manipulative narcissist with no conscience? Would that shoe fit? Yes, it would. Yes, it would, Nancy. And I'll tell you something else. The reason nobody's calling and reporting her is because the research has shown that if you report that you have been abused by a female, more times than not, you are not believed. I didn't think of that.

You're absolutely correct. And guess what else gave her the indicia of responsibility and her mom's status secured? She's living in a $4.7 million mansion. I bet they've got a pool. I know they've got a hot tub because one girl almost drowned in their hot tub drunk. $4.7 million home up there in Los

Gatos. A quote, tech-savvy predator who taught the teens to lie using gifts in order to bait the girls. Whoa, wait. We haven't even touched on that, Drew Penner. Drew Penner, investigative reporter at the Los Gatos.

What kind of gifts did she use to bait the teen girls? Well, I mean, if you know the Bay Area at all, you know that just over the hill, you've got Santa Cruz. And that's a pretty awesome destination to go to. And people like going on trips there. Same with Tahoe. So if you get invited along to a trip to one of those places, I mean, who wouldn't want to go? Keep in mind, these are kids that don't have access to just head out on a weekend trip on their own. And so that's one thing you know

getting these the the alcohol supplied i mean that's not exactly easy when you're near a kid and um you know i just i think that there's a lot of this uh affection that's been showered on them as well by uh miss o'connor as we hear in from some of the stories that we've been reporting on including you know that that may have been a technique, this flattery, in order to build trust and bonds. That's classic grooming, Drew Panter. One other thing I wanted to say too was just that, if you don't mind, was just that I think that we have to keep in mind

that this is someone that she had on her phone, it turns out, as we've now reported, like a video of a girl saying that, you know, talking about her own body image. And we don't know if this is someone she knew or something she downloaded from TikTok. But this is pointing to the fact that, you know, she had not just a desire to help her own child perhaps hook up, but, you know, there's some question around was she maybe looking for having, let's say, a bad interest in 16-year-olds, for example. One of the searches on her phone was hot 16-year-old teenage girls and prettiest 16-year-old girl. Good books with young sex. That's something that just came out recently.

Well, Drew Penner, you've certainly given me something to think about. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Also, we know that one young girl who is going only by the name Jane Doe 8 says that cool mom O'Connor, quote, tore my life apart. I've suffered and had to deal with the reputation of being, quote, the girl girl that got raped I will live my high school years with this cloud over me victims say that O'Connor befriended them through her children and social media when they were just freshmen at Los Gatos high this Jane Doe 8 says Shannon does not have a conscience she's's a con artist. I will never have the life I once had, and neither should she. She says that O'Connor would have boys get drunk and then drunkenly sex assault the girls while O'Connor watched. One of these girls, Jane Doe 9, actually had to take out a protection order against O'Connor

after she realized O'Connor had been following her around with no headlights on. The girl still has nightmares today. One girl says that O'Connor moved into her town and the little girl got 27 calls with no caller ID but with Shannon O'Connor on the other end breathing into the phone. Does anybody have a concern about what took so long to bring this woman to justice? Here's another theory in addition to Julia Pinter's theory that she was sexually interested in young teen girls and boys? Did she actually want to be a child again? Take a listen to our cut, 28 WNYT.

Cairo Durham School District Superintendent Anthony Taibbi says 32-year-old Michael Ann Goodrich came in to register for classes on December 19th. He says administrators immediately felt something was off. But Taibbi says under the McKinney-Vento Act, the district had to admit Goodrich immediately because she claimed to be homeless. She did attend school for one day, and she did, in fact, ride the school bus to and from school that day. He says Goodrich was absent on the 21st,

and then the holiday break began the following week. She was arrested on the 28th and charged with offering a false instrument for filing, falsifying business records, and criminal trespassing. And more in our cut 25 from AP. A 30 year old sex offender who posed as a child has pleaded guilty to seven criminal charges and will now serve at least 70 years in prison. Neil Havens Roderick II faced 28 counts but pleaded guilty to seven criminal charges and will now serve at least 70 years in prison. Neil Havens Roderick II faced 28 counts but pleaded guilty to only a quarter of them, according to a plea agreement document. Two of those charges stem from when he posed as a 12-year-old boy and enrolled in this Arizona charter school in January 2007. If it's a facade he's been putting

on, he's very good at it because he obviously fooled educators. He fooled trained and experienced investigators. So if it's a facade, then he's an absolute magician. So this spans, I understand, Jerry Penner, from Los Gatos to Idaho. Is that correct? So it is true that what happened is that as the investigation was progressing into the conduct of Shannon O'Connor, she leaves. She goes to Idaho. And, you know, that there's different rules. When you have authority, local authorities investigating here, it's harder for them to reach across state lines. And in fact, at one point, she's Internet searching Idaho statute of limitations criminal. She's going, hey, can I get prosecuted in California?

If I live in Idaho, she's very savvy jury. What about it? Sam Dordulian. She's looking for statute of limitations. How long can they prosecute me in another jurisdiction for this? She's incredibly manipulative. And it's just terrifying. The other parts that you mentioned about the whole stocking part of it. I worked the stocking unit as well. And I can tell you, I'm working with the DA's office, prosecuting all sorts of criminals. There's only two that I was really, truly frightened of, hardcore gang members and stalkers. And she seems to not only just be a sexual predator, but has those stalking elements on top. And it's just terrifying that she would move to a different state, be so manipulative. And there's some reference to her

moving to another state where there's, I believe, one of the victims actually lived. It's terrifying what this woman was doing. And to suggest that the husband had no idea about all of this, I think is just foolish, absolutely foolish. Well, we do know that he has recently filed for divorce, and do you blame him? What about a Dr. Angie Arnold, psychiatrist out of Atlanta? I gave you two examples of many, many where adults have actually enrolled in middle school and high school posing as teens to be around teens. It's like they want to be a teen. Is that some sort of a designated ailment? You know, Nancy, I don't, that ailment doesn't necessarily have a name. It all goes under the, it's all under the guise of sexual predators.

And it's just another way that they manipulate the system. I mean, Nancy, I have to wonder, I mean, there's so many things that are going on in our world right now that are predatory to children that we have to keep an eye out for all of those things. You know, I want to follow up with Anna Sonoda, child grooming expert and author of Duck, Duck, Groom. We're talking about various motives. Did this so-called cool mom O'Connor actually want to be a teen again? Take a listen to this, Anna Sonoda. Hour cut nine from KGO. The DA's office believe an early motive for O'Connor's alleged actions is sexual gratification. Court documents say she would use social media to lure minors to her home, give them alcohol, condoms, and private rooms to commit sexual acts that sometimes were not consensual.

One of the crimes that we have charged involves committing the crime for sexual gratification. So we can certainly say that sexual gratification is one of the motives in this case. What about it, Anna Sonota? Well, Nancy, I think we have to back up a second and say that all sex, all sexual acts with anyone under the age of 18 in California, as along with Idaho, is always non-consensual. These children don't even have the ability to consent to sex. So let's get that on the table first of all. I think one of the things we have to keep in mind, 66% of child sex abuse victims are between the ages of 12 and 17. This is a ripe atmosphere. This woman took her position. It's easy to impress teens.

She was likable. She was powerful. And she was popular. She was providing money, alcohol. Everything was free to these kids. We don't know the socioeconomics of the children who are in that position. And we know that there were no other authority figures. She always set it up so that she was the sole adult.

And she convinced other adults to trust her to supervise, protect, and prevent any damage. And she did nothing of the sort. Instead, she was pretending that she was forever 21, if you will, and disregarding any sort of obligation as an adult or as an authority figure. So would you say, Anna Sonoda, that she has some sort of an age regression mental ailment or as the motive here, or do you believe it's for her pure sex gratification or so somehow she can be the quote, cool mom. I actually don't think it matters why. No, it doesn't matter why.

We're so fixated on why somebody would do something. The message that listeners need to get out of this example is that people who are entrusted with your child, as long as you send them into environments in which they have space and access away from proper supervision, the highest risk environment your child can ever be in is your home or someone else's home. So if these parents had just eliminated the house parties, this wasn't happening at school. This wasn't happening at church. This wasn't happening in the local playground. This was happening at her home. Let's all wake up to the reality that our homes and when we allow our children to go to other people's homes, that is the highest risk environment.

So honestly, I don't care what reason she had for acting like a teen other than grooming and looking cool and having access and then suddenly being the one almost like a big sister with a with a proper ID. Here are these kids who are trying to test the boundaries because that is the appropriate developmental stage that they are going through in their own adolescence. Jane Doe, too, did not want to testify, claiming she wants to, quote, forget this ever happened. But her mother spoke out saying she's not here because she doesn't want Shannon O'Connor to own one more minute of her life. My daughter is not here because she's busy doing what kids their junior year should be doing, studying for AP tests, SATs, prom dress fitting, dreaming about colleges. Her life will never be the same. And I can think of five women who agree with the victim's mothers. Take a listen to our Cut 19 K-R-O-N.

Five female inmates are scheduled to be arraigned in court this week after an attack on another inmate at a jail in Milpitas. Court records show the five inmates beat this Los Gatos woman, Shannon O'Connor. It happened at the Elmwood Correctional Facility. O'Connor is accused of throwing secret alcohol-fueled parties for underage boys and girls and pressuring those teenagers into having sex with each other. Prosecutors said O'Connor lured victims to her Los Gatos mansion through social media and her sons who attended Los Gatos High School.

The attack on her happened in October of last year. Court documents show deputies broke up the fight and took O'Connor to a hospital. Michael Bott, former NYPD sergeant, have you ever seen anything like it to this extent? No, it's crazy. And she knew exactly what she was doing was illegal, you know, by keeping it from the parents and conspiring with the kids to make sure they kept it from the parents. So she knew exactly what she was doing. And I do agree with your other caller that none of the acts are consensual due to age. And she's basically an accessory to a sexual assault. She's a facilitator and she encouraged the behavior. She's just as bad as the person committing sexual assault and she must be getting gratification out of it. So much for

being a cool mom, not so cool behind bars. Drew Pinter, what is the status of O'Connor's case? Oh, man. So this is one of those cases that just keeps going on and on. There's been many steps, and we're not even really even into the preliminary inquiry yet. It was about to start, the preliminary inquiry, and then there was a legal maneuver that I personally wasn't familiar with until now, which is basically going to the judge and saying, hey, if I plead to all the charges, what would you give me? So that's basically the step that we are in now, where I just spoke with a parent yesterday. And one of the parents told me that, you know, Shannon O'Connor has now been offered a 17-year and four-month sentence.

Of course, this has not been put on the record yet, so there is a chance it could change before I hear next. However, if she decides to plead to everything, we're told that she could go away for 17 years. It could have been as much as 20, but who knows? Maybe this is just a legal maneuver to draw things out and basically start the process all over again of the preliminary inquiry. And then if that goes forward, of course, there could be a trial later on. And this is all going

after an earlier process to try to get out on bail. She's currently in pretrial custody, as you heard, there at the Elmwood facility there in Santa Clara County. And basically, her lawyer took that all the way to the California Supreme Court. So a lot of these kids, as you'd heard earlier, they're saying, you know, I want my life back. And in fact, they're saying you know i want my life back and in fact they're saying geez i want to at least be able to get through college you know and and be free from you know any tormenting from her of course this is all now shannon o'connor we have to say has not had a full chance to mount a defense of course she could have but this is this has not gone to trial however from a lot of the

evidence that has come out so far, there are justices in California and judges in the California system that have pointed to the strong evidence, as they see it, about some of the stuff that has happened. So we have to be careful, but at the same time, we have to say, hey, this is one of those cases where there seems to be at least some pretty strong evidence of a lot of this behavior occurring. I want to say one more thing really quickly, and that is clarifying one of the comments that was made earlier, and I believe one of the victims had said,

you know, I'm known as the girl who was raped. I believe that's the same person that followed that statement up by saying, hey, that's not even my allegation. Now, that's not to say that she believes that didn't happen to other girls or possibly boys. We don't know. But what the point is, is that we also have a responsibility as a community and a society to be careful with how we look at how these situations play out. Because, you know, and, you you know we don't want a victim shame either you know if these are victims they need to be seen as victims for what happened to them

and we they shouldn't be tarnished with any kind of negative reputation when if they truly are victims that's what they are they're victims guys if you know or think you know anything about this case, about so-called cool mom, Shannon O'Connor, please dial 408-808-4400. Repeat, 408-808-4400. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.