Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - COPS: ALEC BALDWIN ANNOUNCES REALITY SHOW AFTER "SHOOTING WOMAN DEAD" ON SET

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Alec Baldwin announces a new family reality show that will air on TLC. The video teaser offers a glimpse into the Baldwin family, with seven young children and a marriage with a 25-year age gap between the couple. The announcement is just in time for the July start of Baldwin's manslaughter trial. Baldwin’s attorneys have planned their defense around convicted armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed not testifying against Alec Baldwin at trial. If the defense can prevent Gutierrez-Reed from testifying, Baldwin's team can use her own words and conviction to lay the blame for the shooting squarely on her shoulders. Baldwin's team also claims that anything Gutierrez-Reed would offer is already available in her previous statements, and giving her immunity from prosecution and the freedom to claim whatever she wants could be highly prejudicial to their case. Meanwhile, Alec Baldwin is facing a second lawsuit involving the movie "Rust". Baldwin is accused of assault and battery, infliction of emotional distress, and the lawsuit accuses an even larger group of crew members of negligence. The lawsuit filed by Halyna Hutchins’ parents and sister, as well as the script supervisor on the movie, Mamie Mitchell, who was standing next to Halyna Hutchins when she was shot.  Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, already found guilty of involuntary manslaughter as the armorer on the movie set, is also named in this lawsuit. Attorney Gloria Allred, who represents Hutchins' parents and sister in a civil suit against Baldwin, claims the new reality show is a calculated public relations move to influence the jury pool in New Mexico, making Baldwin out to be a compassionate family man. Joining Nancy Grace Today:  Darryl Cohen – Former Assistant District Attorney (Fulton County, Georgia) Former Assistant State Attorney (Florida), and Defense Attorney: Cohen, Cooper, Estep, & Allen, LLC; Facebook: “Darryl B Cohen;” X: @DarrylBCohen Dr. John Delatorre –  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; X, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre Johonniuss Chemweno – Film and TV Safety Expert – CEO, VIP StarNetwork; X: @johonniuss_j Paul Szych – Former Police Commander; Author: “StopHimFromKillingThem” on Amazon Kindle; X: @WorkplaceThreat;  Screen Actors Guild-Eligible Actor Kayla Brantley  -  Reporter-At-Large for DailyMail.com, X: @_KaylaBrantley, Instagram: @KaylaBrantley   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A stunning and bizarre twist. Hollywood star Alec Baldwin announcing a new reality show with his family of nine, promising it will be full of love, laughter, and family hijinks. This as his manslaughter trial looms after he shoots a young mom dead on a movie set. Say police, who won't have a reality show. Helena Hutchins, the young mom now dead, her only child, a little boy, so traumatized after learning his mom is dead, he could not speak. He couldn't speak, utter a word for days. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Hi, I'm Hilaria Baldwin. And I'm Alec Baldwin. And we have an announcement to make. No, definitely not. We're done having kids. Thank you for being with us. We are the followers. And we're coming to TLC.

I'm very rarely without a, I'm very rarely at a loss for words, but just, you know what? Take a listen to our cut 21. And when I got through to the doctor and spoke with him, and he detailed exactly what had happened and that she didn't survive, I mean, I was heartbroken. Guys, you are hearing Hutchins' husband, that's Matt Hutchins, speaking to our friends at NBC. When I got through to the doctor and spoke with him, he detailed exactly what had happened and that she did not survive. I was heartbroken. Okay, this is what I like to do whenever I have a jury.

I like to take them back to the moment of the incident, if I can, because we can talk about it until we're blue in the face, but nothing can take the place of a 911 call. Listen. we're going to get some help okay okay what is your name don't hang up okay hold on just one second it sounds like somebody else is calling for two and a half you better make good everybody

should be they need some help of director and our cameraman this camera woman has been shot are they going to take him to the road so was it loaded with a real bullet or what i cannot tell you that okay well i'm pretty sure that if it were a fake bullet, such as a blank, this young mom wouldn't be bleeding out on the floor of a movie set after Alec Baldwin pulls a trigger. According to him, he didn't pull the trigger. It went off on its own, I guess, while it's in his hand. But the disturbing part right now, in addition to this young mom's death, while everybody's standing around trying to figure out what to do and if it was a real bullet, is that Alec Baldwin and his wife and their seven children have now announced a reality show full of love, laughter, and family hijinks.

Kayla Brantley joining me, investigative reporter, DailyMail.com. Kayla, how many days did her only child go without being able to speak after his mother's death? Yeah, Helena Hutchins' son was clearly traumatized from the death of his mother's death. Yeah, Helena Hutchins' son was clearly traumatized from the death of his mother. And then you see there her husband talking about the trauma that they also endured. And at the same time, you do see Alec Baldwin starting a reality show.

It's tentatively called The Baldwins. It's set to come out on TLC in 2025. So we'll all be looking out for that one. Kayla Brantley joining us from DailyMail.com. It was actually two days, two days, the little boy could not speak after hearing the news his mother was dead. You know, Kayla, hold on. I'm going to circle back to you. Let me go straight out to Dr. John Delatore joining us, psychologist, mediator, specializing in forensic psychology. Dr. Delatore, thank you for being with us.

What is that psychological or psychiatric phenomena when you literally cannot speak? I've heard of it, just like I've heard of where people get a horrible shock, their hair turns gray overnight, but you lose the ability to speak. And that's what happened to her little boy when he learns mommy is shot dead on a movie set. She goes to work that morning and bam, never comes home. What is it? It's called selective mutism, Nancy. And

honestly, what the kid is experiencing is a trauma response. It's a pretty severe trauma response because of the severity with which he lost his mother, right? Usually these things can be kind of proportional, your response to whatever the trauma is. And sometimes it's just so overwhelming that you can't even process it. You dissociate from the fact that you're even existing in the real world. You regress back into whatever fantasy life or whatever sort of dreamlike state that you can be in in order to just kind of navigate the hurtful and very vulnerable feelings that you have, especially with the loss of your mother. And there's no way that he really understood what exactly it was that happened. He will when it as he gets older, he just knows that she's gone and she's never coming back. And that that that's so overwhelming, even for even for anyone, especially a little kid. I've actually had crime victims that go into, as Dr. John De La Torre described, a dream state after trauma. Dr. De La Torre, they go back

to a time before the murder or the rape or the molestation, but typically they go back in their mind and they live in a dream state where the murder never happened and they're still, for instance, with their family at night for supper and sitting around the TV watching a program together. They actually live in that world, not in the reality of their loved one having been murdered. What is that called? You said selective mutism when the little boy couldn't speak for at least two days. What is that called? You said selective mutism when the little boy couldn't speak for at least two days. What is that when you live in a dream state? You're functioning seemingly normally, but you think your whole family is still alive. Well, this is part of a dissociation, depersonalization.

But ultimately, what we're talking about is an avoidance. It's almost like even if you were to walk up to the person and say, hey, you know, you know, this thing happened to you. They will say that it didn't no matter how many years it's long since been. They will never sort of incorporate that trauma into their being. They'll never incorporate it as a memory of any kind just because the mind can only take so much. There's only so much that you can sort of process as a human being. And the more overwhelming something becomes, the more taxing it becomes on your coping resources, the more likely you are to engage in these kinds of extreme examples of trauma responses. I can only imagine

it's worse on a child that already has no coping mechanism at all, doesn't understand what's happening. I mean, at that age, your mother is the single most important person in your world. You don't even know of another world. And then to find out mommy's dead just like that. Hey, Daryl Cohen is joining me now. Former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta with me now high profile defense attorney at Cohen Cooper Eastep and Allen. Daryl, before you put on your boxing gloves and start arguing with me about this case, taking Alec Baldwin's side and jumping on the bandwagon of his reality show, I want to have you cast your mind back to the days when you were prosecuting. You know what I hated, Daryl, as you know, I hated having to

put a victim on the stand and make them relive what happened to them. Or in the case of a murder, putting a family member on the stand to relive. I hate even doing it on this program. I feel horrible because I know what it feels like being a crime victim and having to testify, for instance. But it's the state's duty. The state has to do it. In other words, you, when you were a prosecutor, me, you have to put that evidence up. And Daryl, have you ever had a victim? I'm thinking of one girl victim right now. She actually, she's about 14. She actually put her head down on the witness stand in the middle. Well, really at the beginning of the direct examination.

And I mean, she had been raped multiple times. It was horrible. But the point is, you have to somehow get the victim to speak. And it's horrible on the witness stand, that is the most telling, most compelling testimony ever in front of a jury. It may not be evidence, but it's really what happened. And a jury will hear and see that far more than they will listen to her testimony. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're talking about Ms. Hutchins, Helena Hutchins, little boy. And for days, days after his mom was shot dead on the set of Russ Alec Baldwin's movie, Helena Hutchinson could not speak.

With that in mind, listen. Hi, I'm Hilaria Baldwin. And I'm Alec Baldwin. And we have an announcement to make. Good God, no. No, definitely not. We're done having kids. Sit down. This're done having kids.

Sit down. This is about our show. We're inviting you into our home to experience the ups and downs, the good, the bad, the wild, and the crazy. One, two, three. We are the Wild Wings. And we're coming to TLC. Again, I see that, and I'm thinking of this seven-year-old little boy without his mother, not able to speak. And I'm actually speechless. I mean, what are they planning, Daryl Cohen, for the whole family as part of the TLC reality series to go visit daddy behind bars?

Because that's where he's going. How's that going to be on TLC? That's full of hijinks and love and laughter you're confusing i'm not confusing anything you're completely confusing it now let me tell you i am probably the only person on your show that has ever been shot and killed on a movie set it was heat of the night carol con was there. And I know what the protocol is. Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty, but civilly liable because it was his production. Having said that.

Is that what you call a Freudian slip? He's maybe. No. Criminally not guilty. You just said that. That I was wrong. You just said Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty. You just said that. That I was wrong. You just said Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty. See, you know what?

You're a veteran defense attorney, but even you have a slip of the tongue once in a while and tell the truth, don't you? I always tell the truth. I don't always remember what I say. Nancy, he is not criminally guilt you have to remember what you said if you tell not the truth the truth is based on the facts the way a set is supposed to go what do you say it is the armorer the person who provides the weapon to the actor he had no responsibility to check that weapon to see whether or not it was hot, see whether or not it was anything other than a prop gun. He did. Whether he fired it or not,

that is irrelevant. Okay. Johannes Chamueno is with me, film and TV safety expert. He's the CEO of VIP Star Network. Okay, that sounds impressive. VIP Star Network. Johannes, thank you for being with us. Johannes, isn't it true, contrary to what Daryl Cohen just spouted off, isn't it true that on a movie set, you're never supposed to point a real gun, this was a real gun, it was not a prop gun a real gun at a person and pull the trigger i mean and that's a real gun with a with a live bullet is is obviously going to have a detrimental effect to anybody that that gun is pointed to and

so you know the common uh aspect of how you you know film a movie in an environment where you're using live ammunition and a live handgun. Well, he's saying he didn't know there was live ammo, Johannes. So that differentiates this scenario from what you're saying. Baldwin is insisting, A, he didn't pull the trigger. OK, that's BS, right? Because the FBI has already done tests on this particular gun. And they say there's no way the gun went off on its own. But I'm talking about movie protocol.

When you're not dealing with a prop gun, you're dealing with a real gun. You're not supposed to point it at somebody and pull the trigger. Ever. I mean, this dates back to several decades in terms of how movies have been made. And really, as we look at the changes that are being made, Nancy, into the future, this is what we're looking at

in terms of what type of ammunition can you use. Really, the dummy bullets is what's been the common terminology being used in this situation with Rust. Clearly, we know that it wasn't a dummy bullet. It was a real bullet and a real gun that caused the death of Alina Hutchinson and so we'll still learn more as the trial continues if he's gonna be found guilty if he's not gonna be found guilty to your point I

definitely differ in my opinion in terms of Mr. Cohen's opinion that he just mentioned. We have two injuries from a movie gun shot. Okay, we're getting them out there already. Just stay on the phone with me. Thanks. Okay. This *** that yelled at me at lunch because asking about revisions is ***.

Did you see him, Leal, with my table and yell at me? He's supposed to check the guns. He's responsible for helping me. Are you at the station now, Mimi? No, no, no. I'm a script supervisor. How many people were injured? Two that I know of.

I was sitting, we were rehearsing, and it went off, and I ran out. We all ran out. Bombshell tonight, Alec Baldwin parades new TLC reality show amidst a civil suit for his cinematographer's death, only months before his trial on manslaughter charges. A prop gun improperly loaded with live rounds goes off on set during rehearsals for Alec Baldwin's film Rust. Two crew members hit cinematographer Helena Hutchins and director Joel Sousa. Hutchins is critically injured and rushed to the hospital. Despite life-saving efforts, Hutchins succumbs to her injuries. And now a TLC reality show has been announced where Alec Baldwin, his wife, and their seven children share all of the love, laughter, drama,

and family hijinks. This as his manslaughter trial is looming. I wonder what Ms. Hutchins' family thinks about the reality show. You know, Johannes Chumway, joining us from VIP Star Network, I've asked you twice now, and I've yet to get a straight answer out of you. I don't guess you're on the ball on payroll or part of the new reality series. I don't know that. Chumwayeno, question. And I'd like to get a yes, no answer if possible. Isn't it protocol, SOP, standard operating procedure,

that on a movie set, when working with a real gun, not a dummy gun, a prop gun, you are not to point the real gun at a person and pull the trigger. That is 100% accurate. Okay, I don't know what took so long to get that out of you. Listen, I'm a JD, not a DDS.

I don't know how to pull teeth, but I can certainly try. Joining me now, Paul Zeit, police commander. Out of this jurisdiction, by the way, and author of Stop Him From Killing Them. He is Screen Actors Guild, and he's experienced using firearms with blanks during live action movie scenes such as Terminator. Paul's like, thank you for being with us. Okay, follow up on what I pulled out of Johannes Chamueno. Absolutely not. And as a matter of fact, you have a sanitary environment to make sure live rounds are not

introduced into that environment. And that is the responsibility of any safety officer on set. As far as aiming a weapon at someone, again, that's not okay, especially this weapon, given the fact that it has nothing in its barrel except allegedly a blank round, which we now know is a live round.

Bottom line is that firearm went off. It was aimed at the person that it that it actually killed and the person that had it in their hand is is mr baldwin so statutorily this meets new mexico state statute letter you know it's amazing that baldwin keeps saying he didn't pull the trigger and the gun quote went off on its own while in his hand but i want to direct everyone back to the time that helena hutchins was shot dead on the set of rust with the 911 call listen what part of the body was injured yeah uh i'm not sure i'm not in there okay fine is there more than one wound uh i think there's one on two individuals. One wound on two individuals?

Okay. Yeah. Okay, I'm sending an ambulance up you now. Stand line will see exactly what to do next, okay? Okay. I'm going to tell you how to stop the bleeding. Listen carefully. Make sure we do it right. We do have a medic on set.

A medic on set? They're already doing that? I believe so, yeah. Is the bleeding controlled? Let's see if I'm allowed to get it. I don't know about the medic on the set of Russ, but having been on multiple movie and TV sets, very often there's somebody running around with a little plastic box that has like Band-Aids and Bactine in it, some aspirin. I don't know how

that's going to help anything, but I want to go back to Keala Brantley, investigative reporter, dailymail.com. Keala, I'm looking back at the verbatim transcript of these 911 calls, and the dispatch officer is wise enough to say, so is it loaded with a real bullet? And even in the heat of the moment of a life-threatening emergency, everybody on the other end goes, um, I don't know. I can't tell you that. Well, the woman is dying, bleeding out. That ain't from a blank, Kayla. But everybody's already in CYA. Cover your rear end mode. I don't know if it was a live bullet. Maybe she just fell.

I can't believe the two-faced nature, the duplicity of this answer. I can't tell you that. She's bleeding out right in front of her. Well, I think what you're seeing here is that everyone on set was shocked that it was a live round in the gun because there's several protocols that you're supposed to go to, that you're supposed to go through. That means that there should not be a live round in that gun. Obviously, that was the fault of the armorer who has been sentenced. And then another step there is Alec Baldwin, who, as you said, should not have been pointing that gun towards anyone. I specifically want defense attorney, high profile defense attorney at that, Daryl Cohen, to hear what Alec Baldwin said. Listen.

Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. So you never pulled the trigger? No, no, no, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them. Never. That was the training that I had. You don't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. That's from our friends over at ABC. Oh, I can't wait for the state to play that in front of the jury. I would never. It's not protocol. That's not my training to pull the trigger. Oh, H-E-L-L-N-O. Well, he did, Daryl. Nancy, that I don't buy. I don't buy the fact that he said he didn't pull the trigger. What I am saying is, is protocol. The armorer should have made sure that weapon was not loaded with a live round or rounds.

That is what I am saying. I think Alec Baldwin made a stupid mistake, both for the reality show to come out now and also to say he didn't pull the trigger that is exactly what i'm saying okay well actually you just said two different things so first you said i don't buy that he said he yes you did that he did said he didn't pull the trigger so let me refresh your recollection listen well the Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger. So you never pulled the trigger? No, no, no, no, no. I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them. Never. That was the training that I had. You don't point a gun at me and pull the trigger. Okay. From our friends at ABC and thank you, ABC. He just said it like

three times in a row. He did say, I didn't pull the trigger. I would never point a gun and pull the trigger. But he did. So he's totally busted because as you know, once you lie about one thing, a jury can assume if they wish that you're lying about everything. A lie in part can be viewed as a lie in whole. But that is not what the facts are. He was wrong. I think that he did not tell the truth when he said, I didn't pull the trigger. I'm giving you that. But what I'm saying to you is, Nancy, he has no liability. In my view, he had followed

protocol in that the armorer is the one who makes sure that the weapon is not loaded. Were there some stupid moves? Was there civil liability? You bet. But that's it. Despite the tragic and untimely death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins, actor and producer of movie Rust, Alec Baldwin seems to be living his best Hollywood life. Just this week, Baldwin proudly promoted new reality TV show The Baldwins, despite being hit with yet another suit by

Hutchinson's family. Okay, there you go, but let's see the trailer. Listen. Hi, I'm Hilaria Baldwin. And I'm Alec Baldwin. And we have an announcement to make. Good God, no. No, definitely not. We're done having kids. Sit down. This is about our show.

We're inviting you into our home to experience the ups and downs, the good, the bad, the wild, and the crazy. One, two, three. We are the Baldwins. And we're coming to TLC. Okay, so what exactly did Alec Baldwin say while under police interrogation? I'm not talking about a friendly softball thrown at him on ABC. I'm talking about what did he say to police? Listen.

She's right in front of me. She's as far from me as I am from the difference between maybe you and the door. Okay. So pretty close proximity. It was a very tight shot. Okay. So pretty close proximity. It was a very tight shot. Okay. The shot was here. Not of me.

It's of me pulling the gun slowly as it turned cock. Okay. And she's right there, far above, in a position she wouldn't ordinarily be if we were shooting. And this thing, boom, she hits the ground. Okay. Daryl Cohen, you've dealt with a lot of defendants as have I and I've looked at a lot of their interrogations read them listen to them when they would start explaining to me maybe during plea negotiations and they always get right up to the critical moment and then

suddenly they jump they jump to after the critical moment, let's just say you and I were robbing a bank. And I go, yeah, Cohen and I, we went into the bank. And I said, man, don't pull a gun. And then, you know, he pulled the gun. And the next thing we were running out of the bank. Well, hold on. There's two dead tellers. How did that get lost in the sauce?

The critical moment. And I'm looking at what Baldwin says here, reading it critically, and he says, and she's right there, vulnerable, in a position she wouldn't ordinarily be in if we were shooting, and this thing, boom, she hits the ground. Okay, isn't he leaving out the part where he pulls the trigger and shoots her? He kind of left that part out, Daryl. Nancy, too many times, and Alec Baldwin is guilty of this, when the truth would set you free or keep your damn big mouth shut, as Judge Lankford, his secretary, used to say, KYD, BMS, keep your damn mouth, big mouth shut. If he had done that, he was far better off than inventing a story that he thought at the time

would help him when in fact it's coming back to bite him. It certainly is because according to the FBI who tested the weapon, there's no way the weapon went off on its own. Back to DailyMail.com investigative reporter, Kayla Brantley. What can you tell me about what the FBI says about the trigger pull? Well, during Hannah Gutierrez's case, you saw them bring in the gun, analyze it and say that if it did not go off, something would have to be completely wrong, that it would be a broken gun for it not to need someone to pull the trigger to go off. So Alec Baldwin's defense that he did not physically pull the trigger, according to experts, is impossible. This is the Bowens announce a reality show

on TLC, along with other major productions offered there. I'm trying to figure out how Helena Hutchins' family is going to react to flipping through the channels and seeing all the, quote, love, laughter, and family hijinks. But speaking of the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, I've got a very strong suspicion that Alec Baldwin

is going to make her the villain in his trial. Listen. We find the defendant, Hannah Gutierrez, guilty of involuntary manslaughter as charged in count one. We find the defendant, Hannah Gutierrez, not guilty of tampering with evidence as charged in It's going to be so easy since she has been found guilty to put all the blame on her. But I'm understanding there's a very strong possibility that she will be called to the stand. Listen. Loaded it with five of the dummy rounds before lunch, and there was one that wouldn't go in. And so when we got back from lunch,

I took the, like, little cleaner guy, I cleaned it out really quick, and I put another dummy in there. Okay. So there were five total in the bed. Yeah. Can you describe? There was six.

Six, five, yeah. Baldwin's attorneys have planned their defense around Hannah Gutierrez-Reed not testifying against Alec Baldwin at trial. If the defense can prevent Hannah Gutierrez-Reed from testifying, Baldwin's team can use her own words and conviction to lay the blame for the shooting squarely on her shoulders. Baldwin's team also claims that anything Gutierrez-Reed would offer is already available in her previous statements, and giving her immunity from prosecution and the freedom to claim whatever she wants could be highly prejudicial to their case. Hey guys, will the armorer who is supposed to be in charge of all weapons on the set, who has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Will she be the scapegoat in Alec Baldwin's trial? Apparently, Baldwin's lawyers are fighting tooth and nail to keep her out of that courtroom for the jury to never see her, never hear her. But can they do that?

Listen. Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in the Rust shooting, pleads the fifth during a pretrial hearing for Alec Baldwin. Gutierrez-Reed intends to avoid incriminating herself while appealing her conviction. Prosecutors have now asked the judge to grant Gutierrez-Reed use immunity so that she may testify at Baldwin's trial without her statements affecting her legal standing. In a phone call from prison, Gutierrez-R Reed says she wants to see Alec Baldwin in jail. The judge will decide if she will testify against the Emmy Award winner at a trial this summer. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. grace. To Daryl Cohen, a high profile lawyer, former prosecutor, let's break it down in simple terms, immunity, use immunity, sometimes called single use immunity. She has, even though she's been convicted, the right to at least assert the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, even though she's already

been convicted at trial. Why? Because she's got an appeal going. She's appealing that conviction. All right. So she still has the Fifth to protect her. She cannot be forced to take the stand. However, if the state gives her immunity or use immunity, immunity for the purposes of this testimony, she can get up there and incriminate herself, but it can never be used against her. So if the state grants her use immunity, she has no recourse to take the Fifth Amendment because what she's going to say cannot be held against her. She set the creek without a paddle. And so is Baldwin.

Before I go and throw that to Daryl Cohen, Paul Zyke, if she testifies at Baldwin's trial, what do you expect her to say? I expect her to put the blame and or the primary obligation of the security of that movie set to ensure that there's no live ammo on that movie set. He's the one that hired her. He has a large role that he plays in this movie. And, you know, she's going to make sure that the jury knows that and she's going to shift some of this over there on him, and that makes sense. And when you look at this reality TV show, I think that's a direct response to kind of humanizing him a little bit, right? So before this goes to trial, you see him with his kids and everything's great. Hey, wait, maybe he isn't the villain, so to speak, that people have made him out to be. And I think that's intentional.

You know, Kelly Brantley, DailyMail.com, that's a really good point Zyke just made. Many people are speculating, wow, Alec Baldwin needs the money. He's had to sell his place. I guess it was in Martha's Vineyard.

Now a reality show. But maybe Zyke is right that this is a very well-orchestrated attempt to humanize him and make him not the bad guy in the eyes of the jury. Well, from a PR standpoint, Nancy, this does have the potential to be a really good play. For the last two plus years, Alec Baldwin has been associated with this tragedy. You look at headlines and it's Alec Baldwin indicted. It's Alec Baldwin potential been associated with this tragedy. You look at headlines and it's Alec Baldwin indicted. It's Alec Baldwin, potential killer.

It's everything bad to do with this case. So now it's a sort of rebrand that makes him look like a doting dad, like a family man. And hopefully in this case, you'll be able to see the behind the scenes and maybe humanize him a little bit more where you see potentially his struggle with this case, how hard it's been for him personally and emotionally dealing with all this. Is that what you expect? What do you, what, Cretas, if any, do you give rumors, Kayla Brantley, that he really needs the money? Oh, well, that's definitely a money grab here. Obviously, he has mounting legal fees. He has seven mouths to feed on top of that. So there's no doubt. We don't know exactly how much he's being paid for this, but he will be making a good payday off of it.

Which one is it? Money or PR or both? Listen. Just in time for his manslaughter trial, Alec Baldwin announces a new family reality show that will air on TLC. The video teaser offers a glimpse into the Baldwin family with seven young children and a marriage with a 25-year age gap between the couple. Attorney Gloria Allred, who represents Helena Hutchins' parents and sister in a civil suit against Baldwin, claims the show is a calculated public relations move to influence the jury pool in New Mexico, making Baldwin out to be a compassionate family man.

Who handed you your weapon in the day? Helen. Handed it. Okay. And physically handed or put it in the holster? Handed it to me. Okay. She would show me the gun. Okay. Or she'd say, cold gun, cold gun. She'd say, test it or some language to any guy. She handed me the gun, said it was fine. And she said, do you want to check? And I always didn't want to insult her. I said,

we never had a problem. Yeah. I said, I'm good. So, and the first AD very often will ask periodically, he'll say, let me check. Okay. And they'll have two people check. Okay. You know, to Johannes Chamueno joining us from VIP Star Network, film and TV safety expert. Is he trying to cast blame elsewhere? Is that what he's doing in that interrogation snippet? A hundred percent, Nancy. This is a clear case where he's trying to put blame on the armor. I

mean, I go back to the expert witnesses and the expert teams that we have on our health and safety services, Nancy. When surgeons are operating on patients, they work directly with technicians to hand them over instruments. Where does the liability lie with the surgeon operating on a patient? With the surgeon. It doesn't matter who hands him what. If he leaves product in the patient, who's to blame? The surgeon. If he operates on the patient and makes mistakes during the surgery, who's to blame? The surgeon. It's not the person that handed him the instruments. And so we're going back and forth between hearing mr cohen comment that it's the armor's fault that handed him a live ammunition loaded firearm versus the the blame sitting there with alec baldwin that should have been

part of the pre-planning the production the training everything related to how you handle firearms. So I heavily disregard or disapprove of the opinion by Mr. Cohen in terms of whose liability it falls on. Well, another issue to me is just the simple truth. I don't think it's all Alan Baldwin's fault. And I don't think it's all the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez's fault. I think it's both of their faults. She handed him a gun with a live round in it and he pointed the gun at a human, a real gun, not a prop gun, and pulled the trigger and then lied about

it and said he didn't pull the trigger. So everything he says now is down the crapper because he's already been caught in one lie. Then you've got the other added culpability that he is the executive producer and in charge of everything on this program. Hey, let me circle back to Daryl Cohen again, because we got off the track on the immunity issue. If the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez,

is given immunity to testify against Baldwin for the state, she cannot take the fifth. She's got to testify. That's very true. And there's, as you knew, two types of immunity. There's use immunity, which they're offering her, and there's transaction immunity. Transactional immunity is far greater, far better for the person who's about to testify. but she cannot take the fifth. On the other hand, what is she to do about her trial and about the appeal? She is between the proverbial rock and hard place. What does she do better to lay low? I want you to hear this. Take a listen. Ever since the shooting death of Helena Hutchins on the set of Rust, Alec Baldwin has claimed he did not pull the trigger.

Even after an FBI report contradicting Baldwin's account of the shooting, saying the trigger had to have been pulled for the gun to fire, Baldwin says he didn't pull the trigger. The FBI report says their testing proves the gun could not be made to fire without the pull of the trigger. Accidental discharge testing determined that the firearm used in the shooting, a.45 Colt single-action revolver, could not have fired without the trigger being pulled. The FBI report also says with the hammer in the quarter, half-cock, and fully-cocked positions, the gun could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger. Ali Baldwin says he didn't pull the trigger. It's going to be hard to fight with the FBI ballistics testing.

Back to Kayla Brantley, DailyMail.com. Now, we hear Baldwin stating in his police interrogation that Gutierrez handed him the gun. Was she the one that handed him the gun, or did an assistant hand him the gun? We have conflicting stories here. We have Alec Baldwin saying that Hannah Gutierrez handed him the gun. We have police reports saying that it was an assistant directorrez handed in the gun. We have police reports saying that it was an assistant director who handed in the gun. But at the end of the day, what we have is a cinematographer who's dead, a son without his mother, and we have two people who are facing the music.

We wait as justice unfolds. Thank you to our guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off. Good night, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.