Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "Cops pulled me from my daughter's funeral for DNA test" Karina Vetrano dad reveals new details, Part 2

Episode Date: April 9, 2019

Karina Vetrano was sexually assaulted and murdered while out for a jog in Queens, New York. Her killer, Chanel Lewis, finally convicted less than four months after the jury deadlocked at his first trial.Karina's parents, Phil and Cathy, tell some emotional stories from the case that have never been heard before.ANDFlorida sisters admit to an alleged killing of their elderly father, because he refused to move into assisted living. And they would have gotten away with it, except they both confessed ... to the same man .... who they were both sleeping with.Our panel of experts also weigh in:Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert and author of "Blood Beneath My Feet"Kenya Johnson, Atlanta prosecutorDr. Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer and host of Investigation Discovery's "Fatal Vows"Dr. Michelle Dupre, South Carolina medical examiner and author of "Homicide Investigation Field Guide" Dr. Bethany Marshall, Los Angeles psycho analystKaren Smith, forensics expertAshley Willcott, Atlanta juvenile judge and lawyerDave Mack sydicated radio host Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Her father, her usual running partner, stayed home that day because of a back injury. He grew concerned after he couldn't reach his daughter shortly after she set out on her run. The retired firefighter calling the police and joining them on the search for Karina. You are hearing our friend at ABC Rural News tonight. That's Maria Chiavicampo. Listen. He was the one to find her body face down in a marsh 15 feet away from the trail just four hours after she left her home it is wrong to kill an innocent young woman the toronto's mother issuing a fiery promise to the killer i guarantee you you will pay forever we also have dna from her fingernails probably the

strongest we have despite frequent pleas to the public for help and a reward of almost $300,000, the case went cold. And I am right now a broken, broken woman. But I will state this. I have 110% confidence that this person will be caught. Vetrano's grieving parents in court Sunday at Lewis's arraignment. Her distraught mother shouting to the suspect in the courtroom. The mother of a beautiful young jogger, Karina Vetrano, sobbing in a court of law, gripping a cross as the court hears how her beautiful daughter was thrown to the ground, brutally raped, and then strangled in a marsh as she fought for her life, her fingernails breaking off, her teeth knocked out of her mouth,

her fists clutching the grass as she tried to hold on to the spot where she was attacked and get out of that swampy marshland where she was brutally raped and murdered. And today, has it ended? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Let me just say that Karina Vetrano, killer, has been convicted. I spoke to Karina's father in depth, Phil Vetrano, and the grief in his voice was overwhelming. Listen. Karina and myself, we weren't just, you know, father and daughter.

She was like my best friend. And we did everything together you know she said daddy i'm going to go for a run and she asked me if i wanted to come and i said i can't today uh karine because my back is hurt and she was only gone 20 minutes when this feeling came over me like something was wrong. And my wife had just gotten home from the hospital, and she said, what's the matter? And I said, Corrine is not answering her phone. And my wife didn't even know she went out for a run. So I went looking for her.

And I walked the trail where we usually run. I stopped about 200 feet from where she was because I didn't think we ever went that far. And I turned around and I came out. I called a friend of mine in the PD, and I told him, Karina's missing. She's not answering our phone. And within 15 minutes, we had patrol cars. Within a half hour, we had helicopters. We had bloodhounds. We had 300 people looking for her.

They happened to unlock her phone. She had an Apple product, which was very difficult to unlock. But because Karina had asthma, they were able to unlock the phone and we found the location. And at 1030, I went to where the phone was found, where the police were. There were about 15 cops there at the time. There was bloodhounds. There was a helicopter with heat sensor on it. And I said, where's the phone? And they pointed in a direction. He said about 50 feet in. And, you know, they didn't touch the phone. They left it to CSI. So I said, in and you know they didn't touch the phone they left it to csi so i said okay you know it's pitch black now and i start walking deeper into the trail you know just

walking and then uh i told myself or somebody or something told me no so i turned around and i walked in the other direction and And I just, she called me. You know, she came to me and called me. And I got to about 50 feet from where the phone was on the trail, and I just stopped. You know, there's a trail to the right, and there's a trail to the left. You can go any of the way, and the weeds are eight feet high. And I just stopped. I turned to my right. I looked at the left. You can go any of the way. And the weeds are eight feet high. And I just stopped. I turned to my right. I looked at the weeds and I just walked in and I made it about

30, 35 feet. And that's where she was. And I just walked into the weeds and found her. You know, she needed her father. She needed me to find her. There's no question. To Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, what this guy says in court, Chanel Lewis, is so disturbing. The family heard this. They have personally reviewed his videotaped confessions. He says that, I was mad.

I saw red. He also that, I was mad. I saw red. He also denies raping her and says, I guess, he says he killed her. I guess what? Somebody else raped her. And so he's going to say that coincidentally somebody

just happened to rape her and then he came in and killed her. Quote, he says he grabbed Vetrano as she ran past him through a marshy swamp that she clawed at his face. And he hit her five times before she was knocked unconscious. Quote, she didn't yell.

She was finished. I finished her off. I strangled her. She fell into the puddle and drowned, he says coldly on videotape. I got up. I wiped off the blood. And she was calm. She was in the pool of water.

It was like all the way over her face, he says, of the puddle. And after telling police how he, quote, finished her off, he seemed to think he could pay his way out of a murder one charge. He says, quote, I can straighten out my stuff. I mean, you're the DA, right? Where do we go from here? Is this a restitution program or something? What? Quote, I finished her off. Then he goes on, Joe Scott, to insist he did not molest her, even though her jogging shorts had been pulled down. I did, quote, I didn't do any of the stuff they said, sex assault, stuff like that. He says he then walked home up the bike path, quote, shaken up.

He was shaken up, Joe Scott, hoping to get napkins to quilt the bleeding from the scratches on his face. And then when he was asked why he attacked the jogger, who has a name, it's Corinna Vetrano, he says, because a guy moved into my house in the neighborhood. He said he was feeling a lot of anger. Okay, Joseph Scott Morgan, you have been a witness in countless cases. I don't even know how many felonies I've tried or investigated. I never really meant to hurt her. It just happened. So let me get this straight. He places himself there physically at the scene of the crime where he apparently laid in wait. Nancy, this is a very narrow jogging path. It's in a wooded area immediately adjacent to a beachside area where people take their families.

This young girl lived there. This young girl lived there. This young lady lived there with her father. And he waited in the bushes until she jogged by. And then as he got past, as she got past his position, he attacks her while her back is to him. Then he drags her out into this marshy area. Now, he says, I beat her. Let me tell you what else they're saying. She was apparently struck in the back of the head

with some type of heavy object. They're thinking possibly a rock. Now, I don't know this definitively, but she may very well have had a depressed skull fracture. That happens many times with these types of strikes. And then she was strangled. And he's saying that he didn't molest her at all, Nancy. You know, she's wearing jogging pants.

Now, as everybody can attest to, jogging pants don't just spontaneously fall off. Her pants had been pulled down. This is in a very, what we refer to as an asymmetrical position. She's face down, Nancy. Can you imagine in this dirty, filthy marsh water, face down? She's been brutalized, beaten, strangled. She's bruised and scratched. All she wanted to do was go out for a jog.

Her pants are down. And he, in this asymmetrical position where he's dominant over her, finally, finally, just strangles out the last bit of life that she had left in her. He completely abused this woman. And to say that this wasn't sexually motivated, give me a break. It's an attack of power. He raped her and he choked her. But this we do know.

He has left his DNA behind. The father of Phil Vetrano led a fight to allow in familial DNA. Joining me right now is a renowned DNA expert. It is George Schiro, director of the Scales Biological Laboratory, with over 30 years of experience as a forensic scientist and a crime scene investigator. Before I go much further with the facts, I want you to enlighten us all. For those that may not be familiar with DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid, every single person has their own unique DNA. It cannot be replicated. It's like a biological or genetic fingerprint. But what is familial DNA, George? Because they tried and they tried and they tried.

They took the DNA off her body, George, and compared it to CODIS, which was the nationwide data bank of DNA. No matches. So it looked as if it wasn't anybody that had a record. They couldn't find the perp. It was excruciating. George, what is familial DNA? Well, thank you for having me, Nancy. Familial DNA searching is where a database is searched, a database of DNA profiles. It's searched to determine if there are any close matches that could have maybe come from a potential family member of a perpetrator of a crime to see if a link could be made that way. Then if there's a potential link made that way, and if it's a fairly strong familial DNA match, what they'll then do is get a DNA sample directly from that individual to compare directly to the evidence.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Channel Lewis, the 21-year-old man charged in the brutal rape and strangulation of Karina Vetrano. How did he, Channel Lewis, get caught? How was he identified? Because while they got DNA from Karina's body, it didn't match up to anyone. Philip Vetrano had been waging a campaign to convince New York state authorities to allow investigators to use familial DNA techniques to identify a suspect. It wasn't used in the state up to that point, but just before their decision to allow it came, Lewis was arrested. He was eventually caught by good old-fashioned police work, which eventually identified him as a person of interest because he had been in the park. Once he was identified, detectives were able to get a DNA sample. They matched it up to some DNA found on Karina's body,

and once in custody, they got that confession on tape. With me right now, Phil Vetrano, who I consider to be a colleague and a friend, Karina's father. Phil, you know, it hurts me sometimes, and I know that some police make horrible mistakes and do horrible things, but police, prosecutors, judges are some of the most honorable people I've ever met.

And yes, I know mistakes happen. But nobody ever seems to notice when they do something so incredibly right. As you just said, they went through hundreds and hundreds of potential suspects. And even though you were one of their brothers, they looked at you. Of course they did. You saw her last. You found her body. You're her father.

You're one of the closest people in the world to her. Of course they looked at you. But you knew that going into it. You knew they'd look at you and instead of dodging it you're like yeah here I am take my DNA do whatever you have to until you find the person that took my daughter's life they took my DNA at my daughter's funeral at my daughter's funeral two detectives approached me and said we would like to take a swab from you. And we took me into a back room and I said, you can take whatever you need. If you need to take my right arm, you take my right arm.

I'll give you whatever you ask for. And they swabbed me at my daughter's funeral. Phil, I never knew that. I did not know that. I'm just, you know, taking in what you have just said to me. But joining me right now, Prosecutor Kenya Johnson, that's the reality of prosecution. You can't spare anybody's feelings and feel the Toronto's right. Everybody is a suspect until you get a conviction. Every single person is a suspect. You can't leave any stone unturned. You have to ask questions of everyone because you never know when you can get that nugget that will lead to another road as far as the investigation.

And when it comes to juries, juries are just as questionable as well. We take them with their own baggage, their history, their education, and sometimes jurors just will not put two and two together, or even in the face of obvious evidence, they still have a problem to convict. And so a jury selection process is more so an elimination process, where we ask questions to try to get out people that have certain biases, but certain things slip by and you just never know what people are holding back or what their preconceived notions are and whether they can even send someone to jail. So even after you've created the case and you've done this great investigation and you presented, you still have that final frontier of getting before and convincing every single person,

and that's a challenge as well. Phil, question. Did you get to sit in the trial the whole time, or did they sequester you, make you wait outside because you would be a witness? Yes, I had to sit through. I couldn't go into the courtroom until I testified. So I couldn't be at jury selection. I couldn't be at the first two days of witness testimony. Only after I testified, I was allowed to sit in court. When you were sitting in court listening to testimony come from the witness stand. What sticks out in your mind? How professional and how thorough everyone was, the police officers, the detectives, the ME, the DNA experts, the phone searches.

Everything was done so perfectly and so professionally and without bias. There would be no question as to any kind of corruptness or mistakes that were made because there were none. His Miranda rights were given to him multiple times, multiple times on video. He was told when they went to swab him why he was being swabbed. He was being swabbed in connection with a murder case of Karina Vetrano, and will you be willing to give a DNA swab?

And there's a consent form that he was read, and then he read himself, and then he signed, and then he gave his own DNA swab. He swabbed his own cheek, took the Q-tip, put it into the vial, sealed the bag, and that's how everything was done. There were no mistakes made here. George Skiro, I know you're the director at the Skills Biological Laboratory, but could you please explain to me the significance of the DNA in this case. Well, in this case, according to what I've read, there was DNA from Lewis found on her cell phone and on her back.

And what's been reported, it's been reported as a match. And a match usually indicates a single source. And then what will happen is whenever there's an inclusion or match, we have to give a statistical weight to it. And in this case, the statistical weight will probably be in the trillions, perhaps quadrillions, if it's a complete match, meaning that with the exception of a possible identical twin, that Chanel Lewis is the source of that DNA sample on the back of the cell phone. With me right now, Phil Vetrano, who I consider to be a colleague and a friend, Karina's father. Phil, question. The moment, not the moment, but very shortly after Karina went

jogging, this one day out of a million that you did not go with her, you immediately started having premonitions foreboding something was wrong. To the point where you acted on them. I believe your wife started calling her. You started calling her. You went out, started looking for her. Since she has gone to heaven, do you feel that she has gone to heaven. Do you feel that she has tried to reach you?

Absolutely. She is everywhere. I don't know if there's different levels of angels, but my daughter is extremely powerful. She shows herself to us in many ways, many ways. Yes, she is around us, and we communicate with her the way we normally do, and she communicates back in angelic form one way or another, in signs, in sounds, in many ways. Now, Phil, I know this is very personal, but it would mean a lot to me, and it would mean a lot to our listeners who have been thinking of you and Kathy and praying for you since the very beginning.

Can you tell us about any communication that you've had with Karina? That is too personal. That is too personal. That is too personal. There are certain instances, I mean, she has shown herself many ways in different forms, in purple light that show up at the memorial, purple orbs. But as far as direct communication, as far as whatever they call it, when someone comes to you, you know, through the spirit life, those are personal. And that is

just between me and my family. But she has come. Well, I will tell you this, and I get it. I can tell you this. In all the years since my fiancé Keith was murdered, all the years, he was murdered in 1979, I know for a fact that he has communicated with me twice. Once immediately after his murder, in the days following it, and then it took almost 25 years after that. And because of that communication, I married and was just under the line to have children

and if I had not listened to Keith I don't know what my life would be like now so of course I know you I haven't had the pleasure to know Kathy yet but I know what you're telling me is true, and you listen to her. I know you will.

All I can say is that to say I'm happy isn't correct. I guess I'm relieved with the verdict and hopeful for you and Kathy starting another part of your life. And I guess I'm grateful. How would you describe how you feel? Pretty much the same. We are, we're relieved that we no longer have to go through this agony of sitting in a courtroom on a daily basis, looking at him and hearing other people with their opinions, which are nothing more than opinions, not based on any kind of facts.

And we don't even know where we're going to proceed from here because for two and a half years, we've just been waiting for what happened Monday, for a guilty verdict. And that I am grateful for. There aren't too many things in life that I can say bring me joy and happiness other than my grandson. But we're not joyful, but we are grateful for that conviction. And it does give us the opportunity to move forward. I don't know what direction, but we're moving forward. You know, Phil, I just want you to know how much you have given an example to me and you have renewed my inspiration

to keep fighting for crime victims and you're a role model for so many people and parents out there that have lost their child or people that have lost their loved one to violent crime, you have no idea how you and your wife and your demeanor and your behavior from day one have inspired so many. And if you don't know already, let me be the first to tell you, you have changed the world. Our prayers go on, Nancy. I am so grateful to hear that. And that would be what Karina would want.

That's what she would want, for us to be civil and helpful and to help people. That would, that would be what Karina would want. I know that. And I thank you and you have been an inspiration to me. And I just want to ask you if there's anything you would like to ask Kathy at this point in time. Wow, Kathy, I had never thought that I would get to speak to you today, and you know so many secrets in your heart, and you've been through so much. What message do you want to give our listeners today? With me is Karina Vetrano's mom, Kathy.

What would you tell our listeners? Well, I think you and Phil covered so many things that were necessary and that we would like to convey. So basically, my main message right now is to, I want that jury to get my message of gratitude beyond, you know, that beyond belief, beyond mere words can express. That on this day is the message that I really want conveyed. There are so many things, so many things that I want the world to know about Karina and about the things that I've learned through this trial that are not pleasant and that are not right. But that's a different forum. Well, I know one thing. Karina is smiling down on you and Phil with so much love.

You know, that I could even speak right now is because of the majesty of God and the blessings that he has imposed, I believe, to Karina to here in a different way and that there is God and that she is with God and that someday we will all be together again. And that's the only thing that has been able to help me to start functioning again because really I was unfunctionable for a very long time. Well, the two of you really personify one of my faithful, one of my favorite verses out of Timothy, and it is

fight the good fight strong to the end. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Shock and sadness as people in one community learn their neighbor did not die of old age, but reportedly killed by his own daughters. ABC Action News reporter Michael Paluska with why some of them are always suspicious, even when deputies were not. The sheriff told us what happened inside this home was the perfect murder,

and he told us that those sisters would have gotten away with killing their father if they just would have stayed quiet. Four years ago, on March 6th of 2015, his neighbor Anthony Tomaselli's death was not from natural causes. Supposedly, I heard people say that he just went downhill really fast. That, God, you could have fooled me saying something like that with him. Yeah, downhill really fast. You know, a little helping hand from his own daughters. You just heard from our friend at WFTS-TV, Tampa anchor Jameson Euler, talking about the death of an 85-year-old dad, Anthony Tomaselli. But he's dead?

And now the sisters are suspected in his murder? All-star panel, Dr. Michelle Dupree, medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, renowned psychoanalyst Dr. Bethany Marshall out of Hollywood. Karen Smith, renowned forensics expert. Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, anchor. You can find her at ashleywilcott.com. Joining me right now, syndicated talk show host, Dave Mack.

Dave Mack, I don't get it. If I could have one day back with my dad, one day back, I'd give everything I've got. Except the children, of course. David is in jeopardy on that one. Here's a catch. And the reason they initially ruled this to have been from natural causes, Anthony Tomaselli at 85 was suffering from cancer. He had dementia.

He had some heart problems even. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Who says he had dementia? His two murderous daughters, Linda Roberts and Mary Beth Tomaselli? Well, it was actually his regular physician is the one that declared him dead from natural causes. That's why they almost got away with murder, Nancy, because the setup was there. Now, both these women, Mary Beth Tomaselli, who's 63, and Linda Roberts, who's 61, are just evil with a capital E. Bottom line, they described it as euthanasia.

And the only reason they got caught is because they just had to talk about it. And, by the way, both women ended up dating the same man that they met at a bar. That's who they told the story to. Ew. Oh, my stars. You know, Ashley Wilcott, wouldn't you just know it? Here they are, Mary Beth Tomaselli, 63, Linda Roberts, 61, blabbing, trying to snare the same guy. I mean, why bother?

I mean, at that point, do you need another man in your life? Another one? They had to brag like that would make them more attractive to the guy? That they murdered somebody well again i think that that's attributing rational thought to two very irrational criminals and so the fact of the matter is if they're going to kill somebody in the first place it doesn't surprise me at all that then they choose to brag about it so why do you say dave mack they almost got away with the quote perfect crime it ain't so perfect to me well that's exactly how the sheriff

described this now here's what they actually did nancy 85 year old dad in bad health they both quote, perfect crime. It ain't so perfect to me. Well, that's exactly how the sheriff described this. Now, here's what they actually did, Nancy. Eighty five year old dad in bad health. They both claimed that he would not go to one of the not hospice care, but, you know, the kind of extended living that senior citizens go to sometimes before they pass. They said he did not want to do that. They were tired of taking care of him when it amounted to so what they did they actually had a plan that they were going to actually at first just drug him with an alcoholic drink with some sleeping pills but there was too much alcohol and it broke down the sleeping pills and they didn't work so when that didn't happen they tried they tried to suffocate him with a pillow on the couch but they weren't strong enough he He was too strong. Now, this, that's how bad off this guy was. He was strong enough to fight off two younger women

who were trying to suffocate him with a pillow. He was able to fight back from that. When that didn't work, one of the sisters held his arms at his side and they crammed a dirty rag down the man's throat and pinched his nose until he died. Oh, my stars. Dr. Bethany Marshall, help me out. Before I get into the rag down the throat and the pinched nose, in my mind, I thought that they had drugged him. But that is a violent death. But Dr. Bethany, I want to go back to you. Why are these two trying to impress a man at a bar that they both want to sleep with by telling him they both were they fighting for credit that they killed their father I mean well how is that supposed to impress a guy he probably thinks gee I guess I'm next I sure would take a drink they offer me you know Nancy I think that I have a scenario I've seen in my practice quite a

bit my psychology practice adults coming in who are preoccupied with parents, and they are preoccupied with their parents money. So they're like, Hey, my dad has $300,000. But Dr. Bethany, there's a big difference in my mind, they're both evil. But to give somebody sleeping pills and alcohol, and then having the wherewithal to hold your own father's arms down while the other sister stuffs a rag down his throat and pinches his nose. I mean, that's a whole nother level of depravity. Yes, it is. But they probably had toxic hatred for him. They were angry at him for wanting to go to a retirement facility. They felt that he was going to spend all the family resources and they wanted to get rid of him at any cost so that they could have the money for

themselves. He is such a big motivator of homicide. That's a motivation we always have to look at. And I think that's why they heinously, Nancy, they put a pillow over his face. And when that didn't work, they put the rag down his throat and pinched his nostrils for what? $120,000? Well, what does that say to you about their motivation? The fact that they would try three different ways to kill? That it's not just for the money, but they hated their dad. Well, of course, the man that they're trying to impress at the bar went immediately to police. And not that quickly. He was, quote, romantically involved with them. I think he had sex with both of them. But he goes to police and reported after what they said.

And I don't understand what they hope to gain from him by telling him this. This is why I said they were preoccupied with hatred towards their dad. Even after they killed him, they still couldn't stop thinking about just the profile of the adult child who stalks the parent for money. I'm telling you, Nancy, I have seen it in my practice. It does happen. Kids can become preoccupied with trying to get things from the parent. And when they want to get things from the parent, that's they want to get things from the parent, that's all they can think about. So I would imagine that the story was still going on. Was there a property they were trying to sell?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were talking about this because they still hope to gain something financially from the father. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend.