Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cops: Star Denver Cardiologist Drugs, Rapes 10 Women, Courted Online

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

Ten women have come forward accusing a Denver cardiologist of rape. Stephen Matthews, 35, was first charged with drugging and raping a woman he met on the dating app "Hinge." Matthews was later charged again as the nine additional victims revealed similar stories. Matthews is facing 16 felony counts. Three of the cases allege that Matthews drugged and subsequently raped the “helpless” victim. The remaining seven cases allege that Matthews drugged the victims.     Matthews’s attorney, Douglas Cohen, said his client is innocent. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor and Author: "Why Bad Looks Good" and "Red Flags;" Also: "Today with Dr. Wendy" on KCBQ in San Diego; Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills, CA); Twitter: @DrBethanyLive   Rachel Countryman - Forensic Nurse Expert for Godoy Medical Forensics, and Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE); Twitter: @GodoyForensics  Lee Neubecker, CISSP- Digital Forensics Expert, and President & CEO of Enigma Forensics, Inc.; Infosec Security Bblogger at LeeNeubecker.com  Christopher Gavin- Breaking News Reporter for The Messenger; Twitter: @chris_m_gavin See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. If you can't trust your doctor, who can you trust? The thought of a doctor hovering over your unconscious body you got to really trust that person right i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us here at fox nation in series xm 111 first of all take a listen to our friends at kcnc according to this denver police affidavit a woman met up with mats after connecting with him on Hinge, a dating app. They had brunch on a Sunday morning in January, then walked to his West Denver townhouse.

There, she said, they hung out in his hot tub. Matthews later told police they had consensual sex. But the woman says she remembers none of that, has no recollection of having sex with the doctor, only remembering finding herself hours later at home with paramedics checking her out. Wow. Did we mention the so-called doctor she had a date with is a leading cardiologist? Wow. Okay, what exactly is happening and what is Hinge? With me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. First of all, Lee Neubecker joining us, a digital forensics expert, president of Enigma Forensics. You can find him at LeeNewbecker.com. Lee, thank you for being with us. What is Hinge?

Well, Hinge is one of many social dating websites out there. Markets itself is being the last app you need that you'll find someone and delete the app and live happily ever after. Oh, hey, that is a great marketing tool. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, joining us out of Beverly Hills. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Don't poo-poo online dating. My nephew met his now wife online.

He dated a lot of other ladies he met online. They got married. They just had their second son and bought a home. So that's working out. However, you do meet a lot of nuts online. Nancy, you have to have really good antennas when you go online, but you're not all, we're all not forensic experts like our previous guest was. You know this is a wonderful tool, a dating tool, right? And as I say to my patients all the time, the more tools you have in your toolbox, the better. So if you're going to date, a good tool is self-love. A good tool is good judgment, knowing to evaluate another person on a date, receptivity, generosity, optimism towards the future. Knowing where to meet people is an excellent tool. But this tool

has become a feeding ground for predators, crazies, people who want something other than dating and just a quick comment about that what i hear from my patients is that they don't know how to distinguish between somebody who wants to go on a date because they want a bright future with another person or somebody who's just looking for sex somebody who just wants to hook up or somebody who just wants a friend and this is their only way to make a friend so it's hard to ferret that out at the beginning let alone if you're going to be on the date with a sex predator or a monster well wait a minute wait a minute uh lee newbecker let me follow up on what dr bethany marshall just said um lee wouldn't you say that as a matter of perception anyway there's a big difference between, for instance, plenty of fish and tender?

Yeah, well, you just have to inspect your fish before you reel them in. Yes, yes. But plenty of fish is a dating site, right? Yes. That's yet another one. But I'm saying it's perceived as being about love and relationships and finding your forever partner, as opposed to other websites where it's basically a hookup. Yeah. Well, in the booty call. I mean, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Why Bad Looks Good.

That's a great name, by the way. And author of Red Flags. She's at WendyPatrickPhD.com. And she's the host of Today with Dr. Wendy at KCBQ. Wendy, there's a big difference. And here comes the bride and a booty call. That's exactly right. And some of these apps are geared specifically to one group or the other. You've got eHarmony. You've got Christian Mingle.

You've got places where people are supposedly looking for long term committed relationships versus the hookup sites. So absolutely looking at where somebody's posting, assuming they're not cross posting. Don't leave out J-Date. Right. You know, there are romantic slash let's get married websites. And then there is Tinder and others. Coffee Meets Bagel is one here in Los Angeles. J-Date. You know, Nancy, here's the tricky thing is that the people on the hookup sites don't want the other people on the hookup sites.

So they gravitate towards the dating sites because those people, I think that no value judgment here, but those people are a little more optimistic. They want to spend a little time together. So they gravitate towards the other sites and then they become stealth hookup people on a dating site. They also want to exploit vulnerability. I agree exactly with Dr. Bethany. They want to exploit the vulnerability of people honestly looking for a relationship because they're going to be more open to it. So that's a great point as well. Also joining us, Rachel Countryman, forensic nurse expert for Godoy Medical Forensics. She's a sex assault nurse examiner,

a SANE, sex assault nurse examiner. Rachel, thank you for being with us. Rachel, you heard our friends speaking from KCNC. The woman says she remembers nothing about consensual sex. She remembers meeting up after a discussion or an interaction on Hinge dating app. They go for what sounds like a nice day brunch on Sunday morning,

and then they walk to his West Denver townhouse. They hung out in the hot tub. The next thing she remembers is finding herself hours later at home with paramedics checking her out. She has no recollection of having sex with this top Denver cardiologist age 35. Sounds like a wonderful eligible bachelor. I mean, he's got to be smart because he got through med school. He apparently has all of his teeth and full insurance. So go for it, ladies. So she wakes up in her own home with no recollection of what happened.

So, Rachel Countryman, how do you know if you have been raped if you can't remember it? Well, Nancy, I think that we need to point out here that, you know, sexual assault is a crime of violence against a person's body and their will. Right. They can't they can have physical trauma and significant mental anguish and suffering, and especially in situations like this. So she went to this person's apartment that she obviously had some trust in and she doesn't know what happened. That right there makes someone less likely to report. They don't remember themselves what happened. So how can they tell somebody else what happened to them and be believed? So that's a huge part right there. So why would she believe she had been raped? What would lead a victim to believe they had been raped when they can't remember anything? Well,

I think that victims report and end up going in, remember, a sexual assault forensic exam, also known as a SAFE, is a medical exam first and foremost. And it's not going to show proof that somebody was assaulted, and it's not going to show proof that they were even penetrated. I think the purpose of the exam is to make sure they're okay and possibly collect some evidence that could possibly ID the assailant. And, you know, with DNA results and stuff, we can then, you know, determine that there was sexual contact that occurred. Some things, Wendy Patrick is a California prosecutor. Having prosecuted many rapes and sex assault cases, Wendy, in addition to what the rape victim says there are

other indicia of rape such as you wake up and your underwear is on backwards or inside out you wake up and your underwear is torn or your clothes are not back on you correctly or you're missing an article of undergarment, your bra or your underwear. You may find blood or sticky fluid. You may suffer pain. All sorts of indicia that you were raped and you can't remember it. That's exactly right. And that's one of the reasons SART exams can be

a tool among others. And when it comes to a consent defense, which is often the case in these, I don't remember much type of scenarios where somebody's been drugged or they've had too much to drink. Or one of the other things a SART exam can show is the type of contact nobody would ever consent to. Anal injuries fall into this category very frequently. So there's lots of reasons in addition to what we just heard talking about the DNA that can be collected, etc. That this can be one of many tools to indicate unwanted sexual contact. So we hear what this woman is saying. And so far, a rape case we cannot make out. We know a little bit about her, but what do we know about him?

Take a listen to Brian Moss at KCNC. The woman had two mimosas at breakfast, then another at his home, along with two shots of tequila. Dr. Matthews' lawyer says his client and the woman had consensual sex on their first date. That lifestyle can result in buyer's remorse, jilted lovers and tall tales, but the attorney said it is not a crime. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. Please join us now on Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho Killings. In this gripping special investigation,

we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak with two female Ted Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas, who described their life before and after they were victims of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private investigator Bill Warner, who worked in the cases, and Ted Bundy's defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We travel to Moscow, Idaho, to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors of Brian Koberger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Koberger.

Don't miss Parallels of Evil, the Bundy and Idaho killings, streaming now exclusively on Fox Nation. joining me right now christopher gavin breaking news reporter for the messenger at the messenger dot com christopher thank you for being with us buyer's remorse that lifestyle can result in buyer's remorse jilted lovers and tall tales but the lawyer says it's not a crime man i would have thought long and hard before i put that statement out there so the defense says buyer's remorse what exactly does that mean christopher gavin that's what this doctor has to say back well basically uh you know that dr matthews had told police according to the affidavit that uh the the to him and the woman had consensual sex uh she vomited a few times after she had some drinks he offered her water uh but but she declined and offered her a shower, but she accepted. And he claimed that she was doing better after a while

and she called an Uber and went home. Wow, so Dr. Bethany Marshall, in that scenario that Chris Gavin with The Messenger accurately pointed out as having been the outline, the good doctor gave, where does buyer's remorse that lifestyle can result in buyer's remorse jilted lovers and tall tales what he thinks he's the best thing out there wait a minute but wait how can that resonate with anybody it doesn't it points to his psychopathology. Buyer's remorse? I don't think rape allegations by a victim are buyer's remorse. Nancy, this speaks to motivation on his part. He thinks he has rationalized that he is the best thing out there and that she wanted him and now she's regretting it but if you just think

of the storyline of what happened that night he's a cardiologist and then he gives her water when she's thrown up three times i mean we all know that she probably needed an iv at that point he puts her in the shower well that's not great not great. And then... Get rid of evidence, get rid of evidence. Exactly. And then he puts her in an Uber. We all know that even if you go for a colonoscopy or any kind of medical procedure where you are put under anesthesia,

you're told to have a familiar person drive you home. So he puts her in an Uber and she's out of it. I mean, it has wrong written all over this story. You know, I think buyer's remorse is the wrong analogy. Well, that's one way of putting it. I think they stuck their foot right in their mouth and I'd like to stick it somewhere else. But I mean, you at very best have sex with a woman. She says she recalls nothing of it and wakes up and the EMTs are working on her. She, for whatever reason, believes she's been raped. And the response is buyer's remorse, jilted lover.

O-H-E-L-L-N-O. If the lawyer had any brains, they would have said nothing. But if they felt they had to speak, I would have exhibited caring and sympathy for the female complainant. Instead of jilted, oh, I, mm-mm. They better not put a single woman on that jury if it ever comes to that, because that is going to fall flat. What were you saying Wendy Patrick you know the the reason it's the wrong analogy is women don't claim rape as the result of a bad date when you claim rape and you are interviewed and everything that goes along with that you're on trial and you're in the spotlight and that is not where

sexual assault victims want to be it is is a painful, difficult, challenging process to work through some of the what goes on after that. So I think what we're looking at here is not knowing what happened, trying to figure it out, and just being honest about what they do remember and why they wouldn't have consented to some of what went next. That's what seems to be the fact pattern. Rachel Cushman joining us, forensic nurse and a sane sex assault nurse examiner. Let's just go on what the defendant said. Excuse me, the good doctor. Rachel, what would a shower, what effect would a shower have on evidence regarding a rape victim? Well, the shower could help wash away evidence, touch DNA.

You know, we have, we are able to get DNA now on touch. Saliva. Depending on how much she bathed and showered and washed those areas, potentially DNA could have been washed away. Saliva, as Rachel Countryman points out. Sperm, if it's on her body. Pubic hair, which will be part of a pelvic exam the pubic hair of the the rapist on the victim. All sorts of evidence is gathered during a pelvic exam,

but a shower could get rid of a lot of evidence. Even if sperm DNA is found in her vagina or rectum, there's still the defense. It was all consensual. She can't remember what happened, so what does that mean? What more do we know? Take a listen to our friends at KCNC.

Matthews had a dating profile on the Hinge app in 2020 and connected with a woman we'll call Jane who went with him to his uptown apartment. There she says after minimal drinking she blacked out, woke up naked on the floor and texted a family member. I think there's a good chance something very bad happened to me. The next day September 29th 2020 she underwent a rape exam and sent an email to Hinge about what she says happened. We'll be taking immediate steps, wrote back Hinge. We permanently banned him from Hinge, the company told her. So is he? Is he banned from Hinge? Take a listen. But four months later,

as she was on the dating app again, she again found his profile and again wrote Hinge on January 30th, 2021. I was raped after a first date with an individual I met and communicated with via Hinge. He still exists within your ecosystem, she wrote, and is posing a potential threat to other women within the Hinge community. ban is is essentially meaningless eva galperin is the director of cyber security for the electronic frontier foundation whatever they did was clearly insufficient it did not even uh you know clear the most basic bar of what you want to do when you want to uh someone. So let me understand. Christopher Gavin joining us from the messenger.

This woman goes to Hinge, tells them what happened, and they agree to, quote, ban him. But four months later, she checks and he's back. Do I have those facts correct, Christopher Gavin? Yeah, according to that CBS report. Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. I mean, you have a problem. If you're going to ban someone, the principal ways they do it are based on an email and a phone number.

And it doesn't take but 10 minutes to create a new email account by burner phone. But the only way these dating apps can actually enforce this is to use AI photo recognition and ID the perps based on their profile pictures. And that doesn't appear to be him. Guys, you're hearing Lee Neubecker, digital forensics expert at Enigma Forensics, where he is the president and CEO. You're saying in regular people talk, not technical digital talk, that it would have been an easy thing for him to ban ban him, unless he came back under a burner phone. Exactly. And people who are doing bad things, they find ways to get around it. Even with photo detection, they can alter photos, make photos unique,

so they can't be identified as easily. Interesting. But Hinge didn't do that. Okay, guys, take a listen more of Brian Mass. After Jane's second report to Hinge in 2021, Hinge emailed her. It appears he created a new account using completely different login credentials. We have now permanently banned that account and taken additional steps to ensure that he stays permanently off Hinge. But whatever steps they took clearly didn't work hinge declined to be

interviewed and wouldn't say exactly what happened but dating sites can block your user's phone number email address ip address and other identifying information but according to text messages between matthews and other women he back on the Hinge app again in 2022 and 2023. The fact that he's back on a dating app is concerning. And I certainly do not want to limit his freedom of speech. It's concerning because of this. Listen. He was back on the Hinge app again in 2022 and 2023, meeting more women like this woman he went out with in january of this year i should have never ever even been able to match with him because he should have

never been able to make another account she says after several drinks with matthews at his home she blacked out and underwent a rape test the next day, which she says showed she had intercourse, which she does not remember. Matthews claims the sex was consensual. So, to Christopher Gavin from the Messenger, let me understand. We now have two victims saying essentially the same thing, except the first one had drinks with him at Sunday brunch, and the other one had drinks at home. Is that the only difference?

Except drinks at his home, not her home. Well, I believe that there were some drinks in the January case at brunch, but there was also drinks, I believe in both cases, at Dr. Matthews' personal home. That's really interesting that you said that, Chris Gavin. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, I want to go into the dynamic of why you'd want to have sex with a basically unconscious person. But before I get to that, let me ask you this. Do you see his MO unfolding? If, in fact, these allegations are true, it has to be at his home so he can control the arena. He can control the crime scene.

Nancy, absolutely. This is a well-oiled machine at this point. He knows where to troll for victims. He probably knows based upon their response patterns, we know how far he's going to get with them not not to blame the victim but he probably has some pattern in his own mind even if it may not play out in reality he takes them to a public place where they drink something so he can say oh they drank too much when they were you know out at brunch ah and there'll be servilo's video of them at brunch most likely good point yes good and a receipt for lunch yeah Yeah, go ahead. Well, who knows what else is in his home? You know, that's what I was wondering.

You know, are there, is there a bondage kit? Is there, remember the Max Factor hair? When he was raping victims, drugging them, but then he would take films of them and then replay and replay them. So, you know, are these women being taped? You know, what is he doing with that tape or with that footage? And, you know, I think you're right. In his home, other than him taping them, there's not going to be any surveillance. That's an excellent point.

So he can do whatever he wants while they're out of it and don't remember. And he can basically gaslight and say nothing happened. And by the way, you know, he found an attorney who's just like him, who's misogynistic and makes things up that are deprecating about women. I mean, you can hire a great lawyer that won't stick his foot in his mouth as soon as he starts talking about comparing these alleged victims to buyer's remorse. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author. I was thinking about a scenario not as complex as what Dr. Bethany Marshall just told us. I was thinking of something more fundamental to keep the victim at his home,

control the crime scene. You don't have to worry about a roommate walking in. You don't have to worry about, does she live with her family? Does she have children? Of course, a lot of that he could determine in their discussions on Hinge if they were, you know, going back and forth in a sort of digital conversation. You don't have to worry about her having surveillance video in her home that she can then pull up and go, Aha, look, you raped me. There's not a dog bounding through that's going to bite you in the rear end. There's all sorts of factors that would make it more conducive

to a nefarious rape at his place. That's exactly right. And it also forecasts the potential defense. If you've got a stranger rape, oftentimes you don't see somebody picking up someone at the bar and going back to the perpetrator's home because then the victim will know who it is and where he lives. But if you meet on a dating app, you're not hiding identity. The defense is going to be consent. So controlling the crime scene avoids interruptions like Amazon deliveries, relatives stopping over,

all the types of things that you have no control over because you don't know the person well enough, hence the un-consent. And that's one of the things that really distinguishes a case like this from hookups at a bar where there's no preconceived or pre-existing relationship, even from a dating app. Now, we've focused on the doctor but what role if any does hinge play in this and just remember so far i've only told you about two alleged victims take a listen to our cut 15 if they had listened to the multitude of reports that they had received about this person and just banned him in the first place, I would not be sitting here today having this conversation. Dr. Matthews' lawyer previously indicated his client is innocent.

Hinge said in a statement, what's been reported is horrible, and they said they would assist law enforcement in any way they can. Important to note here, Hinge would not answer our repeated questions about how after this doctor was reportedly banned from their website,

how he managed to maintain a Hinge dating profile for several years. I bet they aren't. I bet they are not saying a word. So, Lee Neubecker, how did he stay on Hinge?

I think we've got to be a little bit fair here because the notion that any app like Hinge has total control over the users is a little unfair because it's very easy to create a new account, new credentials and log in. What I don't know if Hinge is doing or not, are they tracking the photos? Because once a perpetrator is identified, they can take the digital hash values of those

photos and identify any other user transmitting them. And we don't know if they're doing that or not. If they are, they're doing the best they can do, in my opinion. Good point. Very good point, Lee Neubecker. Okay, so let's just pretend, for argument's sake, that Hinge did everything right, which I'm not sure I believe that. But how is this guy still practicing? Take a listen to our friends at Nine News. The woman says she decided to go forward with the criminal case after she learned that a family friend had gone on a date with Dr.

Matthews several years ago and said she had a similar experience. Police say the first victim came forward. She accused a cardiologist, Stephen Matthews, of sexually assaulting her after meeting him on the dating app Hinge. On March 28th, Denver prosecutors charged him with three felony counts of sexual assault. One month later, Matthews was still able to renew his license to practice medicine. So what a coinkydink. One alleged victim actually is in contact with a family friend who went through an almost identical alleged sex assault by this cardiologist. So the police go ahead and they charge him, but yet one month later,

he still is able to renew his practice, his medical license to continue to practice. More from 9 News. I'm shocked and dismayed as a person, as a physician, and as a colleague who practices in cardiology. 9 News medical expert Dr. Powell Coley thinks there needs to be more oversight. She knows how renewals work because she submitted her application last month. It was a less than five minute process and it didn't require me to talk about my criminal convictions or mental

health changes. It was just a blanket sort of a question. Have there been any changes that you would like to report? Yes, that you would like to report. According to a notice by DORA, the Department of Regulatory Agencies, it's up to the applicant to list any arrests or charges. Which physician would voluntarily give up information when they haven't yet been convicted only been charged that may put their license at risk wow so the whole process is basically anything you want to tell us and of course he says no and continues to practice medicine having one lady

after the next undress uh in front of him and more. Listen. Dora says the medical board renews a license unless it's under suspension or an applicant reports something bad about themselves. Two weeks after the board approved Matthew's application, the Denver District Attorney charged him again for assaulting nine more women. But it should really be some sort of a bigger systemic thing

that if there is a criminal charge against you, that should be reported to Dora directly, you know, so it's a way to protect our patients. The DA claims Matthews drugged 10 women and sexually assaulted three of them. Matthews agreed with the board to not practice right now after the additional charges. After the additional charges. After the additional charges. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many more women did he meet i mean dr bethany not only is social media completely failing these women i'm talking about hinge unless as kneebacker says they did everything possible to keep him off their site which i doubt but that's what they're saying and now the medical board who does no investigation at all? I mean, to get a law license,

they even would go and talk to neighbors to find out about you. Nancy, the Board of Behavioral Science Examiners here in California, which I have to be, is a board that renews my license, psychoanalysts, marriage and family therapists, LCSWs, clinical psychologists, you have to answer a questionnaire in which you are asked, have you ever been arrested?

And then they investigate. The board is connected to the DMV. It's connected to, I don't know, whatever agency it is where they would check to see if you've been arrested. It's not a self-reporting thing. You're required to self-report. But then if you have been arrested and you don't report it, then that's a whole nother offense because you perjured yourself and you likely will never get your license renewed again. And you know, Nancy, another aspect of this, so many people came in contact with this guy as a physician who maybe should have had some suspicion. He knew how

to drug these women so that they didn't remember what was happening. And I know there are common date rape drugs, but I'm sure he had friends who were pharmacists, who were anesthesiologists, people who were experts in, you know, administering Propofil and things like that. And so I kind of wonder, it's not just the licensing board. It's this broader network of professionals that should be holding each other to a higher standard. Yes. This is not just your neighbor. This is your guy you're in the or with guys ultimately do we ever find out

how many alleged victims have been raped by this top denver cardiologist drug and rape allegedly take a listen our cut nine our friends at kcnc the new cases have been sealed but court records show two of the new cases against Matthews involve alleged sexual assault. The other seven charge him with second-degree assault for allegedly drugging women. Within hours, Denver police descended on Matthews' West Denver townhouse, executing a search warrant and seizing evidence. Stephen Matthews was charged with sexual assault in March after a woman he met on Hinge said she was drugged and raped after a date with a Colorado cardiologist. Since then, nine other women have come forward, claiming to be sexually assaulted by the 35-year-old in a similar manner. According to court filings, Matthews would meet women on Hinge, take them on a date, later inviting them back to his place to play jenga and get in the hot tub

matthews would then serve the women alcohol and they'd become violently ill black out and have no memory of what happened okay christopher gavin joining us from the messenger how many victims do we know about right now currently we know about 10 women who have come forward to accuse Dr. Matthews, 10 women that have come forward accusing him. And of course, guys, he is claiming that he is not guilty. But this really brings back memories of another well-known person charged with a similar crime. Take a listen to our cut 30. Bill Cosby called me out of the blue, and he said, can you come by and see me?

And I was like, of course. I went up to his hotel, and I was alone. He talked about, let me see what type of acting skills you have. I want you to improv. And as I tried to do improv, he fixed a drink you have. I want you to improv. And as I tried to do improv, he fixed a drink, and then he brought it to me. It was a brown liquid, and it looked like a shot. I told him I didn't drink.

He said that this was going to relax me so that the lines would flow out a lot easier. So I did drink it. He made a second drink and had me drink the second drink as well. I noticed myself getting a little dizzy. And more, guys. You were just listening to our friends at Dr. Phil. Take a listen to ABC.

Cosby was convicted of drugging and sexually assaulting Andrea Constand at his home. The court will now also revisit the judge's decision to allow five other women to testify about Cosby giving them drugs. This is something that we've been clamoring about for quite some time. And finally, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has agreed that it's worth looking at more closely. Constan did release a statement of her own today, saying in part, quote, I have no doubt that the Supreme Court of PA will do the right thing and allow Cosby's wealth, fame, and fortune to win an escape from his maleficent, malignant, and downright criminal past and seek justice at all costs. So now we wait for the Supreme Court's review and what might come next. And what became of the case after Cosby was convicted? He's out

walking free and he is planning to tour. He's actually planning to tour as a stand-up comedian. Yeah, that's what's happening. You know, to Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, Dr. Bethany, what is the psychopathy behind someone that enjoys raping a lady while she is completely unconscious, drunk, or drugged? You know, one of the things we know about perversions is that when you have a perversion, you are sexually excited by anything other than the other person's personality. You might be stimulated by, let's say, only pictures, or being stomped on by high heels, or being whipped, or maybe by children, stimulated sexually by children or rubbing up against unsuspecting people in public, frauderism, exhibitionism, voyeurism. But boy, you do not want to relate to another person in terms of who they are with thoughts

and feelings and emotions of their own. And that's one of the ways we diagnose perversions in clinical practice is the person is excited by an aspect of sexuality, but not by the person. They want that person to be dead, gone, an object, you know, not a real person. Dr. Bethany, before I run out of time, I want to follow up on something you said. Christopher Gavin with the messenger. One accuser says, at least one that we know of, says Matthew sent her photos of her naked in the hot tub after she refused to see him again. Another says she woke up with bite marks on her arms. What can you tell us about allegations of revenge porn? Those are some things that came up in the affidavit.

That's kind of all we know right now in terms of how those photos might have been distributed, that Dr. Matthews allegedly sent them back to the woman. We don't know if they had appeared anywhere else, which I think revenge porn would imply. But that's all we know right now. So what do you think about that, Dr. Bethany? Alleged photos and videos taken of the victims? Well, I mean, I think in that case, whatever he can do while they're unconscious and it's outside of their awareness is going to thrill him. I think the minute they start to wake up and become conscious, he probably loses interest in them other than if he can use the revenge porn to lure them back in, render them unconscious, and then do whatever

he wants to do with them again. And Nancy, you know, I'm scared to think about what he did do to them when they're out. I mean, we know about the bite marks. We know about all of the other things that the reporter just now mentioned. What else? You know, bring in other perps. I think that's a great point because one of the ways we can answer that as to what else happened is when you have a classic case, you know, I normally say patterns make the predator, but after listening to Dr. Bethany, I'd say patterns make the perversion. But if that pattern includes filming, when the search warrant was served, they may turn up some of the evidence about what else happened,

what happened to each of them, what are the similarities? You know, there's safety in numbers. We've had a number of women that have come forward. But for other victims that are out there, you know, silence is not golden. And this may encourage them to find their voice. Maybe there'll be more allegations in the future once they find some of this footage. Lee Neubecker, is it possible that any evidence is going to be discovered through digital seizure? Well, certainly if police seized his cell phone and his computer, it's highly likely that he has images of victims on the computer and they may be able to identify other people that were perpetrated and trace those leaks. Same thing with Hinge. Hinge may have a history of all the people he communicated with, and they may have that data. So we don't know exactly what police have

or have not done, but I would fully expect that with the rest, they would want his computer and his phone so that they could identify other victims. If you have information regarding the case of Dr. Stephen Matthews, top Denver cardiologist, please call 720-913-2000. Repeat, 720-913-2000. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.