Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cops: Swim Team Star Rapes Coed in Dorm Room, Flees to Canada

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

Ben Smyth, 19, is a standout freshman diver at the University of Utah.  He meets a young woman and after a brief conversation, they exchange contact information but go their separate ways. Later that afternoon, Smyth reaches out to the young woman and shows up at her dorm.     After some small talk, Ben suggests the two play a game of "truth or dare." Smyth reportedly starts kissing her and asking her about her sexual history. Smyth pushes her shoulders to lay her down on the floor. The woman pushes Smyth off of her and tells him she “does not want to do that." Even though the young woman tells Ben Smyth she does not want to have sex, the teen swimmer reportedly ignores her, takes off his shirt and pants, and grabs the woman by the back of her head, continuing the assault. When Smyth finds out he is the target of a sexual assault investigation, he cuts all ties and goes home to Canada.  Joining Nancy Grace Today: Donna Kelly - Former Utah Senior Deputy District Attorney and Attorney for Crime Victims Legal Clinic; Helped form the Utah County Sex Crimes Task Force   Scott Johnson - Forensic Psychologist (Minnesota - specializing in addressing sexual predators)   Jason Jensen - Salt Lake City, UT Private Investigator and Owner of Jensen Private Investigations; Co-founder: "Cold Case Coalition;" Twitter: @JasonJPI; Facebook/Instagram: "Jensen Investigations" Irv Brandt - Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE AVAILABLE ON AMAZON, ALSO "FLYING SOLO: Top of the World" Twitter: @JackSoloAuthor Rachel D. Fischer - Forensic Nurse Expert, Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE); Expert Witness and Private Investigator; Author: "Taking Back the Pen;" Forensic Nursing Consulting and Education LLC Jared Page - Reporter for the Gephardt Daily News in Salt Lake City, UT; Twitter: @GephardtDaily  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's happened again, according to a rape victim and police investigators. How many times will an athlete get preferential treatment after brutal rape charges? This time we have a University of Utah swimmer actually skipping the country and fleeing to Canada when his alleged rape victim finally finds her voice and makes a complaint. Talk about flight as being indicia of guilt you know in a lot of jurisdictions flight as indicia of guilt is no longer a jury charge a judge doesn't tell the

jury that they can consider flight as evidence of guilt however it can still be argued by prosecutors and I've never seen a case fit for that argument as this case. An elite university swimmer accused of rape decides to what, go on vacay in Canada? Never seen Niagara Falls? Do you believe that? Because I don't. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. How did the whole thing start? Take a listen to our friends at Fox 13. A sophomore on the University of Utah swimming and diving team has been charged with rape. A student at the Utah Police, she met 19-year-old Ben Smith in her dorm building last August, and later that day he visited her in her room and started kissing her. She said she told him no multiple times, but he kept forcing her into various sex acts. When police interviewed him, Smith first denied knowing the victim, but then acknowledged having sex with her and knowing she was in pain.

Oh, dear Lord in heaven. I haven't even gotten into the beginning of the facts and it's like deja vu. A bad flashback because that sounds like every rape case ever. Let me just go straight out to Donna Kelly. I've got an all-star panel including Jared Page with the Gephardt Daily in Salt Lake City but Donna Kelly former Utah senior deputy district attorney attorney for crimes victims helped form the Utah County sex crimes task force can they at least come up with a different story because first of all it's well that didn't happen. Oh, who? I don't know her.

And then you go, oh, look, here's video from the bar, and there you are, sitting beside each other on a bar stool. Oh, that girl. I still don't know her. I just saw her in the bar. I had nothing to do with her.

Well, sir, if you look at the rest of the video, you see you and her leaving the bar together. Oh, yeah, you know what? I did offer as a gentleman to walk her to her car because it was late at night. And sir, we have your fingerprints on her car. Well, I opened the car door for her on the inside of her car. Well, you know what? I sat in there for a few moments and we talked. Well, you know what? She says you raped her. Well, we may have had consensual sex, but she wanted it. Well, the rape kit nurse says she was raped and your DNA is there. See how the progression of that story goes, Donna Kelly. So here we say, what, who? We see him saying,

what? Oh, yeah, her. That was consensual. It's the same old, same old. Can't they come up with something new just once, surprise me? Yeah, and you're right on, Nancy. I mean, many times you will see, and I've reviewed literally thousands of police reports, many times you will see, and I've reviewed literally thousands of police reports, many times you will see sort of the progression of the suspect realizing that they are going to be caught in the lie.

So the lie starts changing as the interview progresses. Now, this one, I don't know, but it appears to be changing according to the officer's knowledge and use of facts with him. And the story begins to evolve, hopefully to get him off the hook. But that is very common. That is not unusual at all as we see in these types of cases. And that is where Rachel D. Fisher comes in, registered nurse, sex assault nurse examiner, S-A-N-E, expert witness, private investigator, author of Taking Back the Pen, Forensic Nursing Consulting and Education. You can find her at LegalRNConsult.org. Rachel, that's when I need a rape kit nurse or a doctor that performed the rape kit. But it's usually you guys, the rape kit nurses, I call them.

You're a sane sex assault nurse examiner. How can you? It's basically a pelvic. And for all of you, I just saw Jackie just like making an ew face. Yeah, nobody wants to go in for a pelvic and for all of you I just saw Jackie just like making it you face yeah nobody wants to go in for a pelvic but a rape kit nurse basically performs a pelvic exam times a hundred so how can you look at a woman's private parts and help shine light on whether she's been raped or had consensual sex. Yeah, so it starts with the basics.

When that patient comes in after being victimized and they come to us and tell their story, they have to sign a consent form for us to basically interrogate them, go to those deep moments of trauma, spread their legs, poke, prod, and penetrate them again. So we're collecting evidence in this rape kit, and it's a very vigorous, intense process, but they have to sign consent for us to do that. So the issue here is he sexually assaulted or he raped her without consent, and she had to go through that process of penetration by a stranger again because of what he did. And so that process that they go to coming to the hospital is a vulnerable one and it's very invasive.

Yeah. Who's going to sign up for that voluntarily, but what would you expect to see? I know you do a vaginal exam. You do a rate combing of the pubic hair to find out if the defendant's hair is there or for any fibers or basically any evidence you can find. You do an anal swab. Who wants to sign up for that?

Nobody. An oral swab. What would you expect to see in the vaginal or anal exam that would say this woman has been raped this was not consensual so we look for any signs of infection or injury or tears um we photograph them if possible but we swab for dna evidence and that is what goes into the rape kit so if they're unconscious or they don't remember um we just swab every area, the anus, the vagina, the outer lips, the mouth, anywhere that could have been touched. We swab and we go inside and we put that swab inside those private areas and we look for pain. So we're swabbing.

They tell us what hurts. And it's guided by the history of what they remember happened. And we'll take their blood. So we'll stick an IV in them, take their blood, try to look for any drugs or alcohol that was used. And then we put this all in the kit, and hopefully we're able to find DNA from who hurt them. Sometimes there's foreign objects inside them.

If it was done on the ground or in the woods, depending. We look for things from the crime scene as well on the patient's body. So you can look with your exam into the vagina and rectum and you can actually see tearing, bleeding or bruising? Yes it's not always present but we're able to see that when we put the speculum inside or if you have to put anything into the rectum, you're able to look for the bruising inside their body from what happened to them forcefully. Guys, I'm heading to Jared Page, joining us from the Get Part Daily in Salt Lake,

but I want you to hear our friends at CrimeOnline.com. The alleged assault took place in a dorm room at the University of Utah on August 16th, but the victim did not report it right away. The official report was made in February with University Police Detective Francisco Chavez investigating the claims. After talking to the alleged victim, Chavez spoke to Ben Smith.

At first, Smith denied knowing the young woman. He later changed his official statement, claiming he did know the woman and the two had consensual sex. Smith conceded that the woman was in pain throughout the encounter. University police did not arrest Smith at that time. When they returned a few days later with a restraining order, Smith had packed his bags and left. Okay, there's so many things wrong with what I just heard.

Not that they're factually incorrect. They're just wrong. His denying that he knew the woman, had ever met her, then, oh yeah, I did meet her. Did you rape her? No, that was consensual. How can you go from I've never met her to, oh yeah, we had consensual sex? Guys, it's a lot more than I can play in soundbites. I'm going to go straight out to Jared Page, joining us at Part Daily in Salt Lake City, who's been on the case from the very, very beginning. First of all, Jared, thank you for being with us. I know a little bit about this guy's background.

Jared Page, take a listen to our cut one, CrimeOnline.com. After graduation, Smith announces he will attend the University of Utah in Salt Lake City in the fall to pursue a bachelor's degree in marketing. As a freshman member of the university's diving team, Smith wins the men's competition at the Air Force Diving Invitational. Smith finished up his freshman year for the University of Utah diving team, coming in second in platform diving at the Pac-12 Diving Championship. Wow. So this guy, the alleged a strong freshman season and then came back. This incident there, the sophomore season started in September, where this alleged incident, alleged rape took place in August, or just before that.

And again, as you noted, the woman did not come forward immediately and he continued to compete and competed as recently as february 10th so again yeah this was a an athlete who was having a really successful career at the university of utah i mean for pete's sake he wins right off the bat he wins the men's competition at the Air Force Diving Invitational. Then he finished up freshman year, coming in second in platform diving at the Pac-12 Diving Championship. That's no small thing. I mean, he is elite amongst the elite swimmers in the university system. And when you hear about the way they met, it's almost as if it's out of a rom-com, a romantic comedy.

Take a listen to this. After a strong finish at the Pac-12 Diving Championship as a freshman, 19-year-old Ben Smith is ready to take on his sophomore year at the University of Utah. And on August 13th, Ben Smith's sophomore campaign gets off to a promising start, finishing third in a dive meet. Three days later, August 16th, walking with a group of friends through a common area, he meets a young woman reading a book. After a brief conversation, they exchange contact information and go their separate ways. Later that afternoon, Ben Smith reaches out to the young woman. You know, I'm just thinking this through. I want to go to Scott Johnson joining us, forensic

psychologist joining us out of Minnesota, specializing in sex predators. Also, Professor Florida Gulf Coast University. And you can find him at ForensicConsultation.org. Scott, thank you for being with us. You know, when I heard about how the rape suspect met the alleged victim, it reminded me of, let's see, it's a Meg Ryan, Tom Hanks movie. Oh, wait, it's You've Got Mail. It's You've Got Mail. And she owns a bookstore and he owns a bookstore. And he always is like spying on her in a loving and caring way. And

she's always sitting there reading a book. And so it's my understanding, Scott Johnson, that he's walking with a group of friends. He sees her reading a book. He goes over and they talk for a while and exchange numbers. That's the meet cute, the setup for a rom-com as they call it. Now, my question to you, Scott Johnson, is in a way, the way that they met, wouldn't that lower her barriers? I mean, it just seems so normal and friendly and kind of romantic. It's not like he's trying to pick her up at a bar and immediately make out with her. It sounds so innocuous, which I think would lower her

inhibitions and lower her protective nature. Oh, absolutely. And his narcissism with this, I think, demonstrates that he's a predator. He knows how to groom. He knows how to schmooze. He can take his time to do what he wants to do to get the victim in a vulnerable situation to, as you say, let her guard down, feel trustworthy, right? And so he knows what he's doing, but he's very good at it and very good at putting her at ease. And that's certainly psychopathic traits. You know, Donna Kelly, of so many of the rape victims that I've represented and worked with, they feel like it's somehow their fault.

Oh, I shouldn't have been at this bar. I shouldn't have been out so late. I shouldn't have been wearing a short dress. I shouldn't have been jogging in tights and a workout bra. All that's complete and total BS. It is not the rape victim's fault, ever. This woman was sitting there minding her own business, reading a book.

But somehow, someway, I guarantee you, on some level, she thought, wow, I should have fill in the blank. Right. I've worked with probably about 3,000 victims over my career. And I can tell you that in almost every case, there is some of that going on with all the victims. And my understanding from talking to experts about this sort of feeling, this sort of response, is that it's your way, your brain's way of protecting you for the next time.

In other words, you want to feel safe. You want to feel like you're safe in the world. And so what you do is you go back and you analyze and reanalyze what's happened and you think of ways that you can be safe for the next time. And so that kind of response is very common on behalf of sexual assault victims. They need to be safe and feel safe for the future. And that's their attempt to do that. You know, I think it's really interesting in this case. Rachel, go ahead. Yeah, so just briefly. So she was just talking about kind of the fight, flight, or free response. And so fight, flight, or freeze is what trauma victims typically do.

And everybody always asks, well, why didn't she just run? Why didn't she leave? And then the victims blame themselves. Well, if you hold to that, what society holds to why didn't she run, you look at him and you say, well, why did he run from this scenario? So use that same predicate, why did he run away from it? That's a really good argument. What about it, Scott? Well, I was just going to say also, you know, both of these experts are right on cue here with why victims blame themselves. And also the perpetrator was blaming her. He was minimizing throughout and he was saying, I'm just going to do this. I'm just going to do that. And so he's putting her in a precarious spot where he's catching her off guard and therefore she has that delayed reaction. But regardless of how she reacts, things are still going to happen. So he minimizes what he's doing, justifies what he's doing. Oh, it's just a little bit or it's just this. You know what? You're all three so right.

Have you ever heard the phrase wolf in sheep's clothing? Well, listen to our friends at Crime Online. 19-year-old sophomore Ben Smith messages the young woman he met in the dorm common area. He asks where she is and where her roommates are. Innocently enough, she replies her friends are at an on-campus event and she is alone in her dorm room. Minutes after he finds out she is alone, Ben Smith is at her door. After some small talk, Ben suggests the two play a game of truth or dare. Smith reportedly starts kissing her and asking her about her sexual history. Smith pushes her shoulders to lay her down on the floor. The woman pushes Smith off of her and tells him, quote, she does not want to do that. And more. Even though the young and tells him quote she does not want to do that and more even though the young

woman tells ben smith she does not want to have sex the teen swimmer reportedly ignores her takes off his shirt and pants and grabs the woman by the back of her head according to an arrest warrant the young woman tried to push back up but he held her head down she pushed smith again in the chest and told him no, but Smith replied, okay, fine. Then he allegedly climbs on top of her, continuing the assault. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. With me is Jason Jensen out of Salt Lake City, private investigator, owner of Jensen Private Investigations,

co-founder of Cold Case Coalition, and you can find him at JensenPrivateInvestigations.com. Jason, thank you for being with us. My pleasure. In this case, we see in increments, increments leading up to a full-blown sex attack, according to this victim. And, you know, it starts off with the meet-cute, okay? Then he comes over. Then he finds out she's alone. Then there's the truth or dare. Then there's the truth or dare.

Then there's the kissing. And then there's the grabbing by the shoulders. I mean, it leads up to a full-blown brutal rape. Very often in court, some jurisdictions have required corroboration. And I'm putting air quotas around that. In other words, bruises, tears, broken bones, ripped clothing. And the courts, a lot of courts didn't like that. A lot of prosecutors like me didn't like that because as in this case, it was so incremental. You don't have a broken jaw or a black eye. It's like, you know, you slowly turn up the temperature and the lobster doesn't even know it's dying. All right. It's too late. By the

time it gets hot, it's boiled. So now in many jurisdictions, there is no longer that requirement of physical corroboration for a rape to corroborate a rape victim story. And think about it. No other. You say you got armed robbed. Does there have to be corroboration? No. Do when your car gets stolen, do you have to corroborate your story?

No. Only in rape cases is was that required and it got to a point where prosecutors would use anything like um i don't know uh the low the the car mileage the position of the seats in the car the uh him loose in the bottom of the skirt i mean you could use anything a button being torn off anything for corroboration until most jurisdictions got rid of that requirement. But rape is still rape, whether you're beaten to a pulp or not. Correct, Nancy. I mean, you look at the information that was filed.

The particulars are pretty well outlined from the detective, progression of his interview and you're right there is no evidence of an aggravated assault in the commission of this crime and it shows that he lured her in and eased her as he progressed step by step you know another thing jared page you know for many many years guys are not allowed in female dorms i guess that's all over yeah that is that is true and uh you know and again as you mentioned whether it's whether it's a dorm room is is is your residence it's a place where you live and you know it's it's it was a situation where um that relationship really went quickly and found out that she was going to be alone in her dorm room and took advantage of that. And unfortunately, you know, you would hope that your college students, when you're going to school, that you're safe in your dorm room.

I mean, that should be a place that you'd consider home and a place of safety. Guys, I want you to hear more of what we uncovered during the investigation. Jack, let's play our cut eight, our forensic crime online. During his interview with Detective Chavez, Smith gave the officer the names of two of his friends to talk to and find out about his character. Smith assumed his friends would paint a flattering picture, but instead they provided insight into a possible sexual predator. The first friend said that Smith keeps a list of women he

has sex with and shares the list with people to show off and to, quote, feed his ego. The other friend told police that Smith brags about the number of women he's had sex with. Okay, well, that didn't help out very much. To Jared Page, joining us in the Gephardt Daily there in Salt Lake City. So, to try to show what a great guy he is, the suspect, Benjamin, is it Smythe or Smith? I believe it is just Smith. Because it's spelled with a Y. It is spelled with a Y, yes. Yeah. Benjamin Smith says, hey, I'm a great guy. Here are two of my friends. Ask them. I'm really surprised the investigators even asked them, but they did.

They go and ask them for a glowing recommendation, Jerry Page, and they get the exact opposite. that kind of outers him as, as being somebody who bragged about his conquests and kept a list and kind of that, um, you know, fraternity like atmosphere that, you know, that I know a lot of the college athletic programs are, are not,

are trying to keep out of their locker rooms in this day and as for certainly these days. And I think the university does a good job of that. But yeah, it's his own character witnesses let people know that this guy, this is what he does. He told police, he also bragged about being the first time for a lot of women, how he enjoyed that.

What, wait a minute. What did you just say yeah in the i just noticed in in the police uh documents that we obtained during the interview he had said that he often has been uh first time for women and that's one of the things that he likes as part of a conquest is just to try to be there first okay I'm just letting that soak in for just one moment. You know what? I really don't know who to go to on this one. Donna Kelly. Yes, ma'am. You know, that's a first degree felony a-hole right there. I don't guess you've ever prosecuted one of those, have you? I have had some experience with that, yes.

And it really shows how he very clearly how he views women as objects for his use and discarding. It really shows that he doesn't think of them as real people. He thinks very black and white. They exist for his pleasure. And that was a stunning admission on his part. And also, it's really interesting that he has very little self-awareness. You know, he believes that the names that he gives the police officers are going to, you know, have this glowing image of him when that was not at all the case. And so he has very little interest in any self-awareness, which is very typical of a predator.

Scott Johnson, forensic psychologist. What is she saying about self-awareness as it relates to this guy, Benjamin Dennis Kai Smith. I think, again, it goes back to the psychopathic traits of narcissism and really believing that whatever he does is right, because in his mind, delusionally, it is okay to do what he did. A list, and what does he do? Put V beside the ones that were once a virgin before he got a hold of them? You know what?

You kind of, and I think it was you, Scott Johnson, but guys, correct me if I'm wrong, do put v beside the ones that were once a virgin before he got a hold of him you know what you kind of i think it was you scott johnson but guys correct me if i'm wrong that said the way he would say oh just a little bit just a little bit just a little bit you know what that's really airbrushing what what happened she victim pushed smith off her and said she didn't want to do that says the warrant. He ignores her removing his shirt, unclipping her bra, then took off his pants, grabbed her by the back of the head, forced her to give him oral sex. She tried to push back but he forced her head down according to the warrant. She pushed Smith's chest and was able to stop.

She shook her head, indicating no. And he replied, OK, fine. I'm reading from the warrant. I'm not just making this up. He then, after he said, OK, fine, climbs on top of her, takes off her underwear, saying everything's fine and ignoring her objections that she did not want to have sex with him. He says, what is this? Is this supposed to make her feel better? Quote, I won't go all the way in.

Just a little bit for a minute. I won't go all the way in just a little bit. The warrant states Smith then forced himself on her. In other words, he did go quote all the way in. When he was nearing ejaculation, he asked if he could ejaculate in her mouth. She said no. So he ejaculated on her stomach and then, wait for it, wiped the ejaculate with his fingers and put it in her mouth. After denying he knew her, he admitted he did know her, they did have sex,

and that he knew she was in pain throughout. Now, can I tell you the first time I had to let loose of a string of that kind of talk? With every curse word I have ever known to a jury, I actually had to practice it. I could hardly say it all. But you know what? If you want to put somebody in jail, you got to have, let me just say, the backbone to say it out loud. Now, just to top it all off, he goes and says, hey, listen, my good friends, they'll tell you what a great guy I am. And they really unload the truth on this guy. But I want you to hear what happens then. Our cut, 10, our friends, a crime online. The alleged assault took place on August 16th,

but was not reported until February. On February 16th, the University of Utah was made aware of the allegations. When detectives went to his room to serve a restraining order, Smith's roommate informed the detectives that Smith had moved out. Moved out? Okay, now take a listen to our cut seven. Our friends at Fox 13. Police say two friends of Smith told them he keeps a list of people he's had sex with to brag about. Police say soon after being interviewed, Smith moved out of his dorm and returned to Canada. There is now a warrant out for his arrest.

Utah Athletics says they learned of the allegation on February 16th. Big question to Jared Page, Gephardt Daly. Why did they interview him? They knew the victim's complaint at the time, and then they let him go well yeah i am not so sure the timing the police reports don't aren't great with the dates of when the report came in when he was interviewed how many many days took took place but yeah i guess i guess when they did interview him he was not detained at that time because he was allowed to go back to

his dormitory and clear out and head home to Canada. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Irv Brandt, joining me, Senior Inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations, Chief Inspector, DOJ, International Affairs, that's the Department of Justice, has worked in embassies all around the world, author of a brand new book, I believe his eighth, Solo Shot, Curse of the Blue Stone on Amazon Earth. They hear the victim's complaints. And yes, she didn't come forward immediately.

Not unusual. She did come forward. She told them what happened. They go interview him. They catch him in a lie. And they let him go. When they go back to issue the arrest warrant he quote moved out in other words fled to canada help me out herb why didn't they arrest him immediately nancy on the face of it you would it would seem there was probable cause

for the arrest just from the interview and from the victim's statement. But the investigators chose to take his statement and continue the investigation. And he fled to Canada, which is not going to help him. The U.S. and Canadian authorities have a great working relationship, whether it's the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or the Vancouver Police. And there's an extradition treaty, a strong extradition treaty in place where we can extradite Canadian citizens. So he's not going to escape justice by any means. I can't wait to tell a jury about him fleeing to Canada. Guys, take a listen to Our Cut 9 Crime Online. As soon as Ben Smith found out he was the subject of a sexual assault

investigation, he packed his bags and headed for Canada. A charging document mentions Smith's time on the university's diving team. Quote, Smith left school and returned to Canada. Smith was a member of the University of Utah's diving team and according to the University of Utah records was on scholarship it says. Smith's flight from the jurisdiction only after learning of an investigation into his actions while enrolled in college classes as a student athlete on scholarship demonstrates the strong likelihood that he will not submit to the court's jurisdiction and if released on bail will flee again the document states the charging documents request that smith be held on no bail

if he is detained so what is the easiest way for someone to get in to canada to flee the jurisdiction. And how many more times will athletes, college athletes, get a slap on the wrist for a full-on rape? Does the name Brock Turner ring a bell? Take a listen to our friend Matt Gutman, ABC, in our Cut 14. The public outcry still soaring tonight over a six-month sentence slapped on former Stanford University freshman Brock Turner for sexually assaulting a 22-year-old woman while she lay unconscious next to a dumpster outside this frat house last year. The judge is basically saying, you know, it doesn't matter what your past actions were, just don't do it again. I don't think six months was nearly enough.

Yeah, I would agree with that. Take a listen to our friends at NBC. Cut 15. With a hard push of the jailhouse door, former Stanford swimmer Brock Turner was met by a crush of cameras. He spent only 90 days in jail for sexual assault. Are you going to apologize, bro? NBC News was given exclusive access to evidence in Turner's case file. Pictures show him with a torn shirt hours after he was tackled by students who saw him on top of an unconscious female behind a dumpster on Stanford's campus. Interrogation tapes taken after his arrest showed a calm Turner responding to questions from a detective saying, my intentions were not to try and rape a girl without her consent.

I was just trying to hook up with a girl. When pressing Turner about the victim, the detective asks, if you saw her again, would you recognize her? Turner responds, probably not. And then, of course, in our cut 22 from CBS, how many college football stars have escaped rape charges? Take a listen. The Ohio State University football players Amir Reap and Jocelyn Wint were booked into this Columbus jail late last night after turning themselves in.

The criminal complaint alleges that on February 4th, a 19-year-old woman was having consensual sex with Reap when she stopped, stating she did not want to continue. Detectives say Wint then entered the room, and Reap, after asking if Wint could join, pushed her down by the neck and the two men allegedly raped her. Afterward, the report says Reap told the victim to say the incident was consensual on video, as he was laughing and she was crying. Of course, many football supporters claim the players should not be in jail and that they were wrongly accused. So, Jared Page joining us, Irv Brandt, Rachel Fisher, Jason Jensen, Scott Johnson, Donna Kelly. I want to hear your thoughts of what should happen now. But Jason Jensen joining us, Utah private investigator, what do you make of the way the investigation has unfolded to this juncture? Well, Nancy, it really does look like there was a textbook approach by the detective from the University Police department uh and i'm not surprised i mean

after what happened to star athlete lauren mccluskey in 2018 it cost the university 13.5 million dollars after she was murdered by her ex-boyfriend in spite of repeated claims of worry and complaints about her ex-boyfriend's behavior to the administration and to the police department nothing was done guys this this student athlete benjamin smith wanted on rape forcible sodomy forcible sex abuse goes on the lam. What do you think to everyone on the panel and to you specifically, Scott Johnson? Why is it so difficult for university administrators to accept that athletes commit rape, just like all other rapists? I mean, I think part of that is the idea that, you know, people lie and somehow we still blame victims and we still hold victims accountable for

so much of what happens despite the perpetrator premeditatingly engaging in violent behavior. And the second piece, of course, is the liability aspect. If we have someone on our campus that's committing violent acts, if we didn't act quick enough, obviously we're liable. But if we act too quick and it turns out not to be true, then whose rights did we violate? When, in fact, they should be saying bottom line is we protect the campus first and let the investigation fall where it falls. To Jared Page, joining us at Gephardt Daily in Salt Lake City, do we have any idea where he's been hiding out in Canada? Well, he is from British Columbia. And so I know that's where he listed in the charges and is believed to be fled from. And University of Utah police working with the private investigator, that's where they located him, found that he was in Canada. The details about exactly where he was hiding and has been hiding, but it was confirmed that he did cross the border.

And again, he is home there. Jared Page joining us at Heart Daily. We're learning as we go to air that he has been returned to the U.S. or he is returning to the U.S. What do you know? That's correct. So according to the Salt Lake County District Attorney's Office, he was arrested. The location and circumstances of that are unconfirmed to me media reports have reported that he was arrested in seattle the circumstances of which whether he was caught when he was coming back across the border or or exactly what took place i do not have that we have reached out for

more information but we do know that he is in police custody now. So he is no longer, you know, hidden from police. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend.