Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cops: Teen boy unleashes BULLET-HELL on mom, dad & sister, kills 6

Episode Date: January 26, 2021

A 17-year-old is accused of the deaths of six people after an Indianapolis shooting. Police were sent to the scene after a wounded boy was found at another location. He tells police that the suspect "killed everyone." One of the victims was a 19-year-old mom-to-be.Joining Nancy Grace today: Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina, Family Attorney, www.NCDomesticLaw.com  Dr. Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University; "Blood Beneath My Feet" author; featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network  Tyler Hunt - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. One of the worst mass murders in Indiana history. How did an entire family get wiped out in their own home in the early morning hours? How does that happen? We've got an open door over here. Can you start two more cars, please? We need EMS at this location. We have three shots, all three are 10-0.

We need them here to confirm, and I need more cars here at the scene. Next car is arriving. Start setting tape up around this house, please. I want the perimeter big. You're hearing part of that 911 call. Guys, with me, an all-star panel to make sense of it. First of all, joining me, family lawyer, no stranger to the courtroom, Kathleen Murphy at ncdomesticlaw.com, renowned New York psychologist, Karen Stark at karenstark.com,

that's Karen with a C, and professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a brand-new series on the True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons, Joseph Scott Morgan joining me. And joining me reporting this morning from CrimeOnline.com, crack reporter Tyler Hunt. But before I go to Tyler, take a listen to more of that 911 call. What can we learn? Start us at Animal Control, please.

We'll just need them to stage. We have a couple areas of the residence we're unable to check due to a dog. Control, out of nine, update the cab. We have five victims. Can we confirm that 4-10-0, or can you advise for the staff pages and for PIO? I can't confirm yet. Control, corner 14, do they give a conditional on that we'll be in transport? Extremely critical. Extremely critical.

Extremely critical. Did you notice there, Joe Scott Morgan, how the body count rose in about 30 seconds? First of all, they call in and dispatch three shot dead. Then they raise it to five. Little did they know that the count would be six dead, one in critical condition. Explain, Joe Scott Morgan, what's happening as this cop is going through the home. Everybody, Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, has been on many, many homicide scenes. Jump in, Joe.

Hey, listen, Nancy. When you heard him say just a few moments ago, we want to make this perimeter as big as possible. One of our basic ideas here in crime scene investigation is that when you get there, you set that perimeter out as far as you can go and then you can track it down. They're trying to secure everything at this moment in time. What they do know is that they have a group of bodies that are located in a specific area, all confined to a home. But this is going to be literally a bloody mess. I've walked into many cases like this over the course of my career

where mass homicide has been committed. And the problem is that you get this overload in your brain, and you have to make sense of this horrific scene in the context of what you're seeing, because you're talking about huge, huge age ranges. You're looking at people that should be vibrant up and walking around. I want to take in the fact that this is now a mass murder. In some jurisdictions, mass murder is anything more than one body. Apparently in Indiana, it's four bodies. Go ahead. Yeah, and it's going to be dependent upon what your department is capable of handling, because when you use that term mass homicide, we're looking at a situation where they can call in extra help at that point in time,

because it's just too much. Even in a place like Indianapolis that has its share of crime, violent crime. But this is going to be something that they have to take step by step and be very, very careful, because, Nancy, they're going to be bodies potentially huddled together. You're going to have bodies that are at some great distance from one another. Well, of course, this happened at 345 a.m. on a Sunday morning. Some people could have even been asleep. Guys, take a listen to Sergeant Shane Foley.

Of the individuals, one of the individuals was pregnant and transported to an area hospital. Despite the best life-saving efforts provided by medical staff, both the female and the unborn child did not survive. The juvenile male who was shot is expected to survive his injuries. From what we know at the very early stages of this investigation, this does not appear to be a random act. This is a very active investigation. Detectives are still on scene canvassing the area for witnesses or anyone with information. I've taken a long look at the area. To you, Tyler Hunt, joining me from CrimeOnline.com. It looks like a residential area. It's on the east side of Indianapolis.

It reminds me a lot of where I grew up. It's a working class neighborhood. It's a split level brick home, lawn of grass in the front and the back, tree lined. On one side, there's a cement driveway that goes down under part of the split level into the backyard. I know that there was a basement because we are learning, correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler, you're more familiar with the facts than all of us are, that the younger brother in the family, about 15 years old, was downstairs in the basement when he heard gunfire break out upstairs, followed by the scream of his 13-year-old sister, Rita. He's shooting everybody. Let's just start with who are the victims, Tyler Hunt?

What do we know right now? Well, Nancy, the victims are unfortunately all seem to be part of the same family. There is a father, 42-year-old Raymond Childs, and the other 42-year-old involves Kezi Childs. The 18-year-old Elijah Childs is the son of both parents. And then 13-year-old Rita Childs, also a daughter of the parents. There's also a 19-year-old present, Kiera Hawkins. And Kiera also was pregnant with a baby boy, a near full-term baby boy. So those are the victims in this case. Then we also have a teen boy that lived, to my understanding, Tyler Hunt, the teen boy, the 15-year-old that was, I guess, sleeping in the basement. Again, it was 3.45 a.m.

when neighbors heard gunfire breakout, was in the basement. He heard the 13-year-old sister Rita upstairs scream out, he's shooting everybody. He runs and he is actually chased through the yard and shot by the killer. That's what we're learning right now. Take a listen to this. And we also spoke with one neighbor out here. She said she knows the family saying they lived there for a few years, and she actually just gave baby toys to the woman who was pregnant. I seen them take all them people out of there. I could not believe that.

Oh, my God. I just hope that they find who did this. And for that juvenile that was shot and found around the corner, we do know that he is expected to survive, which would make him the lone survivor of this horrific crime. Police were knocking on her door at 5 a.m., asking if she had heard anything. Then they informed the neighbor there was a shooting at her neighbor's home. You were just hearing the latest from our friends at WXIN Fox 5.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you just joining us, one of the worst mass murders in Indiana history. We now know nearly an entire family has been wiped out. The Childs family, that includes Kezi Childs, the mother, 42 years old. Her husband, Raymond Childs Jr., the father, 42 years old. 18-year-old son, Elijah Childs, 13-year-old little sister, Rita Childs, a friend in the home, Kiera Hawkins, just 19. She was one month away from giving birth to a baby boy, both she and the baby dead. Then the teen boy in the home, as I told you, that was in the basement, is in critical condition right now in the hospital.

Straight out to Kathleen Murphy, veteran trial lawyer in Indianapolis, there is a very strong fetal homicide statute. In fact, it's so strong that if you kill a fetus, this is not including if the mother terminates her pregnancy, you get an additional six to 20 years tacked on to your sentence. Explain what is a fetal homicide statute, Kathleen Murphy? is where a child can survive outside of the womb. That is considered to be a viable person, and that person that has been killed while in womb is considered a death that you can be charged with. That's right, a separate death.

And what Kathleen Murphy said is legally critically important. If the child is viable and can live outside the womb, then it is considered a human. A human, that term is important because you have to be a human to be a victim of a murder. I know this sounds obvious, but under the law, it's very important. If this fetus is viable, it's considered a human and is considered a victim to a murder. So the killer will not only get the murder charges against the mom, the dad, the brother, the sister, the 19-year-old mom, but the baby, the unborn baby as well. And that is why it's so important that we know this baby was only four weeks away from being delivered. I want to go

back out to you, Tyler Hunt, joining me from CrimeOnline.com. The family all living under one roof, I don't believe we have been able to learn the connection of Kiara Hawkins to the family yet. Do you know? Has that been announced? I have not seen it. I know she was obviously in the house at the time. Yes. Yes.

Guys, take a listen to our friend now, Sergeant Shane Foley. What occurred this morning, based on the evidence that's been gathered so far was a mass murder. More than that, we believe it was not random. There are no right words to say at this time. I myself am heartbroken for the lives that have been taken too soon, for the young life that's forever been changed, and for the life that never got a chance to start. For the neighborhood left to pick up the pieces in the wake of unprecedented violence,

and for all of the family and friends that have been rocked by grief. Straight out to Karen Stark joining me. Karen Stark, renowned psychologist joining us out of New York. Karen, I want you to think just for a moment before we continue to delve into the crime of the effect this has on a community. I mean, Karen, you live in a high-rise in Manhattan. What if you found out the family next to you, the entire family in your high rise was shot dead while you're asleep next door. That instills terror. It instills terror, tremendous fear. Think about that in the high rise or any community, Nancy, where you're assuming this family is okay.

There are people that knew then. We don't know exactly why that person was there who was pregnant, but it seems like the mother was about to have a grandchild, old friends, people know each other for a long time. And then suddenly the entire family is annihilated. And that's a terrible shock, a tragedy and fear for a community. You know, I want to follow up to you, Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator, on what police said that this is not a random attack. Why do they say that? The minute they walk on the scene, they say this is not a random attack. Why? It all goes to access, Nancy. You know, who's going to go in? Who's going to go in at, I think you had mentioned it's like 3 a.m. roughly. Who's going to go into that environment, into a contained environment? Where people are probably asleep.

Where people are probably asleep. Completely, as you know, completely defenseless at that moment in time. It's not like they walked into a big crowd at a nightclub or they're out on the street and they just begin randomly firing. Nancy, this is like where we're supposed to feel the most safe right so automatically the police know that something's up the investigators know someone had to have access to not the exterior but the interior of that home and walk through and they just brought hell with them i mean you know what it's telling me and ty Tyler Hunt joining me, a reporter joining us from CrimeOnline.com, we've heard nothing about a forced entry.

We've heard nothing about windows broken. We've heard nothing about the lot on the front door being jimmied in any way. So obviously, whoever the shooter was can get into the home with a key, was let in because it was recognized. And I say he because typically mass murder is conducted by a he or was living in the home. So those are the three alternatives. Either the door was open, he was let in, or he lived in the home.

Also, Tyler Hunt, unless you know differently, we've heard no suggestion of a rape as a motive, a sex attack, or a theft. So what's the point? We've got the cops saying this is not random. We've got no forced entry. We've got no rape, no theft. So I think Joe Scott Morgan is right. This is not random. And I'm asking you, Tyler Hunt, are you familiar with any facts suggesting that there was a sex attack or theft? There was not. There was no theft involved, no sex attack involved. It was a connection to the family. Yeah, it's got to be.

It is not random. We know that. And even the Indianapolis mayor, Joe Huxett, is weighing in. Take a listen. This morning, one or more individuals perpetrated an act of evil in our city. ...that led to this incident. I want to be very clear about something. What happened this morning was not an act of simple gun violence. As tragic as a simple act of gun violence is.

What happened this morning was a mass murder. The choice of an individual or individuals to bring, and I do not use these words lightly, terror to our community. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, one of the mass murders to ever go down in the state of Indiana, an Indianapolis home under siege after an entire family is wiped out. We do know that Indiana is a death penalty state. The last person put to death was John Wrinkle, and that was back in 2009. But what happened? Take a listen to our friend Angela Brower and also Nick McGill at CBS4WT-TV. Officers responded to East 36th Street Sunday morning and initially found a teenager shot.

Police said he escaped the family's home while the killing was happening. He is in critical condition but is expected to survive. Officers then went to North Adams Street where that boy lived. That's where they found five people dead. The Marion County Coroner now confirming the victims include two 42-year-old adults, Kezi and Raymond Childs, 18-year-old Elijah Childs, and 13-year-old Rita Childs. Also, 19-year-old Kiara Hawkins, who was pregnant with a baby boy. And also from Nicole Griffith at WRTV. We have learned the identities of the people shot and killed inside that home in the 3500 block of North Adams Street.

42-year-old Kezi Childs, 42-year-old Raymond Childs Jr., 18-year-old Elijah Childs, 13-year-old Rita Childs, and 19-year-old Kiera Hawkins and her unborn baby boy. The case has a community on edge and police are determined to catch the person or people responsible. You know, I'm thinking about it straight to you, Joe Scott Morgan. The 13-year-old little sister, Rita Childs, I think is the one that screamed out, he's shooting everybody. Can you imagine? Have you ever seen a mass murder like this, where someone as young as 13 years old is gunned down? And of course, with the 19-year-old Kiara Hawkins, who's eight months pregnant? Yeah, I have. As a matter of fact, Nancy, something jumped to mind from the late, I don't know, I guess it was the late 90s, the Adamsville massacre in Atlanta, where we had, I think it was seven killed, very similar to this in a small, it was a smaller home

than this home, but it was total chaos. I remember going to the scene and having, we had to work this case in teams to go in and work each individual body as a separate, you know, as a separate entity, which they are as humans. But it's the collective mass killing in this environment where you're not just concerned about all of the bodies, but the individual that's right before you and you're having to walk through blood. And I literally mean this. This is actually where my memoir, the name of my memoir came from, Blood Beneath My Feet, because I slid down in the blood at that scene. It is a horrendous mess. It's all self-contained. It's in a single residence.

It is. People think that they understand what horror is. They don't know horror until they walk into this environment. And to put it in context, Nancy, the reason is, is that we're always having to observe the abnormal in the context of the normal. This is a home. This is a place where you celebrate Christmas and Easter and all these family gatherings, a happy place. This is a total hellscape when you walk into this environment. For those of you just joining us, we are talking about the worst mass murder seen in years in Indianapolis. Right now, take a listen to this.

Shortly before 4 a.m., police found a wounded teenager in the 3300 block of East 36th Street. When he got to the hospital, according to an IMPD report obtained by CBS 4 News, that teen told police his brother had killed everyone. When police returned to North Adams Street, they found the five bodies in the home. The sixth victim was the near full-term baby boy of 19-year-old Kiara Hawkins, who died along with parents Kezi and Raymond Childs and their children, Elijah and Rita. All dead. And now we're getting the first hint of exactly who may be the shooter. 4 a.m., police are on the scene.

But first, they are called Tyler Hunt, joining me from CrimeOnline.com, to a different home. When they get to that home, they find a 15-year-old boy shot but alive. I understand that that's where they're getting the evidence. That's where they're learning more from this eyewitness, Tyler. That's correct. So East 36th Street is where the police were called originally of the person shot. That was the juvenile, the 15-year-old.

They spoke to the juvenile who then directed them to his home and told them that the brother shot everybody. That then led them to that 3300 block on Adams Street, which is the residence that the individuals were found dead. So the 15-year-old is the one that was running from the home and actually shot as he's trying to get away. Take a listen to Russ McQuaid, CBS4 Indianapolis. According to the IMPD report, the survivor who ran for his life said his older brother got in trouble for going out Saturday night.

And when he returned home Sunday morning, Raymond Childs told his son they would deal with this later. It was sometime later when the child said he heard gunshots upstairs and his sister's voice yelling that they were being shot. The teen said his brother came downstairs where he was with his parents and started shooting. Guys, we are also learning that according to police sources inside the Indianapolis Metro Police Department, the IMPD, that a Draco gun was used. For those of you, hopefully, not familiar with a Draco gun, it is often called a Baby AK, a Baby AK-47. It is a handgun that shoots rifle bullets. It looks like an assault rifle without the stock. It looks like a Tommy gun of sorts. To you, Joe Scott Morgan, a death investigator, weigh in on

a Draco gun made very popular recently by very famous rappers, including Soulja Boy, whose nickname is Draco. He claims it's because of his initials, but I disagree. I think it's because of the glorification of the Draco gun. It's Romanian import. They manufacture it in Romania. That is manufacturing Dracos in the U.S. Jump in, Joe Scott. You know more about ballistics than I do. Yeah, one of the more, just to start off, one of the more ominous

things about this, Draco literally translates into the word dragon. That's where Dracula comes from. It's where Draco Malfoy from Harry Potter comes from. That's rather ominous when you think about this. And right you are, Nancy. This weapon fires a rifle round. It's what's called a 7.62x39. That's rather ominous when you think about this. And right you are, Nancy. This weapon fires a rifle round. It's what's called a 7.62x39. It's the same round that AK-47's round fire. It's a smaller compact version of this. You can hide it beneath your jacket. It's larger than what you think of as a standard pistol. And Nancy, just to give you a frame of reference here, the actual total length of the rifle round itself that's being fired is about just over two inches in length. Whereas if you compare that to like a nine millimeter that more people are familiar with, it's only about an inch in length. When this weapon would have been fired inside of the home, it would have sounded like a thunderclap, even more so than a regular handgun.

And this is a military grade round that is meant to do a tremendous amount of destruction. When it hits flesh, it hits bone, it rips it to shreds. And so when you heard this young girl, this 13-year-old, this poor little angel, when she was struck by this round or she had an awareness this was going to happen, I can almost guarantee you that's the last she breathed on this earth. It would have been devastating. That's why I am saying that this scene would have been a wash in blood. Not only that, this thing has a capacity. One of the magazines, I think the one that comes with, has a 30-round magazine. So there would have been what we call spent brass all over these rooms. So not only are you contending with blood and the bodies,

you've got all of the spent ammunition that's laying around. And then it continues on into the yard. As Tyler pointed out, you got this 15 year old that's fleeing for his life. Can you imagine being contained inside of this house and hearing these thunder claps inside? I would imagine if they go back and they canvass this area, it is a high likelihood that even at 3 a.m., the people that lived immediately adjacent to this could not have slept through it. They would have heard something. You would have had ear witnesses, if you will, to this event. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Now we are back with the latest out of Indianapolis, Indiana, where one of the worst mass shootings in the state's history has occurred. Yes, there have been mass murders there before. Rarely do you see an entire family wiped out by use of an alleged Draco gun, a baby AK-47. Take a listen to this. The 17-year-old, a male arrested in this case, is a member of the family that was found dead inside the home at 35th and Adams on the city's east side. Here are the details that I can confirm at this very hour. The motive for the mass shooting, still not known. We've learned that police did recover a handgun. I'm told the arrest happened early this morning.

The teen was arrested on two initial criminal charges of murder and attempted murder. Those charges will likely change when the Marion County Prosecutor's Office actually files charges at some point. The office at this point, the prosecutor's office, is only confirming that IMPD made an arrest. Now, because the teen is looking at possible murder charges, a state law would not require the 17-year-old to undergo a traditional waiver hearing from juvenile court to adult court. So this teen more than likely will face murder charges as an adult. He'll face those charges directly.

No charges, though, have been made or decisions have been made on any formal charges just yet. You're hearing Rafael Sanchez, WRTV in Indianapolis. And what he's saying is this. In most jurisdictions, there are seven deadly sins, the seven deadlies that apply to juveniles. For a juvenile, usually, to be treated as an adult in the adult court system, there is a bind over hearing. In other words, the case is transferred over, bound over from juvenile court to adult felony superior court. In the case of the seven deadlies, that often is not required. It triggers an immediate treatment as an adult.

Those deadlies, as I can recall, are murder, aggravated sex assault, aggravated sodomy, child molestation, aggravated battery, armed robbery, cases that are of an ilk. So you see violence inflicted on the victim. This is one of the seven deadlies. I have no doubt Kathleen Murphy, a veteran trial lawyer joining me out of North Carolina, that this 17-year-old will be treated as an adult. He will not be subjected to the death penalty under a fairly recent U.S. Supreme Court decision. Anyone under 18 in the U.S., no matter how many people they murder, cannot get the death penalty, even though Indiana is a death penalty state. There, as opposed to many jurisdictions, Kathleen Murphy, that give life behind bars for murder, he's got 45 to 65 years behind bars on murder,

but it can run consecutively. Explain. Consecutively means each and every one of those crimes will be served after serving for the first crime and then after the second crime. Concurrent is where they're all served at the same time. Suffice it to say, Nancy, this child will never see the light of day again, ever. I mean, he should have been in a position to be facing high school graduation. Instead, he's facing the rest of his life behind bars. If convicted as an adult while still a juvenile, he will spend the next few years behind bars in a juvenile facility at age 21.

He will most likely be transferred to an adult facility in general population. To Karen Stark, New York psychologist, you can find her at karenstark.com. It's very hard for me to imagine a 17-year-old teen unloading out of what looks to be a Tommy gun onto his own family, all because the dad reprimanded him for going out without permission.

But you're not talking about the kinds of 17-year-olds that you're exposed to, Nancy. Because the dad reprimanded him for going out without permission. But you're not talking about the kind of 17-year-olds that you're exposed to, Nancy. This is somebody who's very different. There's some emotional and immediate need that comes over somebody like this. And I want you to understand that this kind of killing is never spontaneous. And so the fact that he had that gun he planned it he was ready to seek revenge it didn't matter if his father was going to be reprimanding him for being out all night or saying you have to be around the family more often this was brewing inside of this boy we don't exactly know why, but this kind of killer will place the blame

externally on the family and has severe problems being able to cope. Now, Karen Stark, you are not running up the flagpole, some type of mental defect, because just let me remind you, Karen Stark, that the shooter, according to cops, then fled the scene. Fled the scene, and a neighbor provided information where he could be found in a nearby neighborhood where he was found. If you have the wherewithal to flee the scene, to me, that is evidence of guilt. I mean, when I see a cop behind me, I may slow down the car, but I don't take off at 100 mph to get away from the cop. Why would I? When you flee the scene of a crime, that's evidence that you know you've done something wrong.

And under our law, back me up on this, Kathleen Murphy, our law is governed by the old McNaughton rule, which has been brought over to our country as common law from Great Britain, from England. That says if you knew right from wrong at the time of the incident, you knew what you were doing. Bam. Kathleen, yes, no. Bam! Bleeing shows that you knew you were wrong at the time. There is no defense that he had a mental defect that would change the nature of what he's charged with or sentenced with. And I don't want to go too DEFCON 4 into legality, but in many jurisdictions across the country,

the judge no longer instructs the jury as to the law of flight as being potential evidence of guilt. However, the prosecutor can argue it in closing statements. And of course, a jury knows that. Guys, take a listen now to Amanda Serentino, WRTV. Longtime friends of Kezi Childs, India Hammond, and Anastasia Dittman. Hammond says she spoke to a surviving son and the Childs family.

She says he and others are trying to cope as best they can. This belief. I've been heartbroken since I heard it because this doesn't make sense. It's senseless. They're good people. I don't know why this took place. I don't know what led to it. I'm very sure people are going

to assume whatever it is that they want to assume. But the bottom line is they didn't deserve this. They were good people. I know her heart. I know how she was raised. She was a good person. This was uncalled for. I want to follow up on that because Karen Stark, so often you'll hear very crude assumptions made about victims. There is no evidence whatsoever This family was anything but upstanding, loving, caring. Not one bad word have we heard from neighbors. Nothing. Not that any of them had ever been arrested. Not that this was some sort of a drug den.

Nothing like this, which makes it all the more stark and seemingly out of place, Karen Stark. There's no doubt about that, Nancy. If you hear what people are saying, people who grew up with the mother are talking about what a wonderful family it was. That has nothing to do with what happened. This is all because of one member of the family and there is i have to agree with you that this 17 year old knew what he was doing if you think about the fact that when his brother ran away from the home he pursued him and kept on shooting he wanted every single person in that house to be dead. That is his issue.

The fact that he is blaming whatever they were accusing him of on the family, taking it out on them, having revenge thoughts. His family could have been absolutely fine if there is a problem with that one child. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.