Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Crime Roundup with Nancy Grace: New Federal Charges Against Luigi Mangione | Zone 7

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Follow Zone 7 with Sheryl McCollum, Available on All Audio Platforms: https://link.podtrac.com/Zone7 Today, Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum discuss the recent federal charges against Luigi Mangione, including the potential for the death penalty. They explain Judge Luther Alverson's judicial practices, the low jail count expectations, and Nancy's career journey. Nancy and Sheryl shift the conversation to societal reactions to crime, referencing comparisons to Eric Rudolph and Robin Hood and the effects of media representation. Lastly, they discuss holiday plans and traditions. Show Notes: (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup    (0:10) Sheryl starts CRU with Luigi Mangione's federal charge (0:45) Nancy explains Judge Luther Alverson's judicial practices and his jail counts  (4:00) Nancy Grace's career journey  (10:00) Mangione's case and public perception  (12:00) Details from Mangione’s spiral notebook  (17:00) Questioning the back problem - suspicious activities (22:00) Eric Rudolph and mental health debates  (26:30) “You can’t compare him to Robin Hood without admitting he’s the killer.” (29:00) Sheryl and Nancy finish CRU with holiday traditions Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Hi, guys. Nancy Grace here. I've got to tell you about an incredible podcast. I firmly believe you will not only love, laugh, but learn from. It's Zone 7 with my longtime friend and colleague, forensics expert, Cheryl McCollum. As a crime scene investigator with years of experience in the system, Cheryl brings a treasure trove of knowledge to Zone 7, diving into cold cases with an incredible perspective that only someone in the business could bring. She brings on incredible experts directly from her Zone 7 network.

Follow Zone 7 on your favorite podcast app. And without any further ado, here is my friend Cheryl McCollum. Welcome to the Crime Roundup. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and we are joined by the one, the only, the incomparable, Nancy Grace. Good morning. Good morning. Luigi Mangione just caught a federal charge. Right on. Wait, can I tell you something real quick? Yes.

Hold on. David, come here. Shut up, David. I had to make it real. He had to be in the room before I told him to shut up. I couldn't just pretend to say shut up. We don't say the S word, but I reserve it just for David. Did you know, man, he only caught a federal charge, which means he can get the

death penalty? Okay, that's what I was going to tell you. When I was prosecuting people with Judge Alverson, who is my favorite judge of all time, Luther Alverson, was so old that he was,

the mandatory retirement age did not apply to him because he was already, I don't know, he may have been too old at the time that he passed it, but I can tell you this, this is what it meant to me in practical terms. He wanted to be known as fit as a fiddle and the best judge in the courthouse. So we would have to keep our jail count the lowest. What is a jail count? That means out of all the hundreds and hundreds of cases you have pending, the number of defendants that are sitting in jail waiting for the resolution of their case, it would come out every Monday. And you would see what judge is not attending to business.

Aha. Because if you got people sitting in the jail, you need to try them or plead them or drop the case, do something. And all the judges

would compare that jail count secretly and see which judge like Eldridge, Lord, he would have a jail count

up around 80, 90, 100. And Alverson wanted his jail count under 20. Okay. And since I wouldn't plead anybody out cheap, they all had to go to trial. Okay. I loved him so much.

So what he would force us to do, which was fine with me, he didn't force me. On one day a week, we would bring in the defendant from the jail and the attorney and me and my investigator. And we'd go through the file and I'd give a plea deal if there was a deal to be had. They would say, Ms. Grace, I caught a little robbery charge. Like, somebody threw it at them and they just happened to catch it. Yeah. So when I say Mangione just caught a federal charge, it made me think, I caught a little robbery charge, Ms. Grace. Yep.

Just caught a little charge. Oh, man. Okay, so this is what I know. In the last 24 hours, federal prosecutors unsealed a murder case against Mangione, holding out the possibility of the death penalty after a trial on separate state charges. There you go. The federal charges are one count using firearm to commit murder, death, two stalking counts, and a firearms offense. What about that? I think it's the right call. And I think it's going to send a really good message for some of these copycat intended idiots because, you know, these people think this is a game.

They think this is something, hey, we can go around and, you know, these people think this is a game. They think this is something, hey, we can go around and, you know, stab this CEO in a meeting, you know, make threats online to this one. It's going to be shut down. And the more people that, you know, play these games and go to jail is going to regulate the other ones. I've got a big, big overarching question. Why are there so many idiots running around? I was reading an article about Mangione and some lawyer, if I could remember their name, I would absolutely tell you. So, well, this isn't a federal case because crossing state lines to commit a crime does not make it federal. I'm like, what? Who said that? Because the complaint accuses Mangione of crossing state lines from Atlanta to the Port Authority in New York to stalk and kill Thompson, which gives the feds jurisdiction to prosecute him. Yep. And he did so with an illegal weapon with the intent to commit murder, which he did. I just had to crack open another can.

First thing in the morning, too take a Z8, low sodium. Man, I'm hitting it hard today, Cheryl. Hey, I got to tell you something. What? In 1996, when you left Atlanta, 97, you know, we didn't even have cable TV. So like, I knew this was a big deal. I knew it was super cool. But I didn't get to watch you every week, you know, every night. And then when you came back, and was it 2005 you started HLN? Let me think. David, when was it? I think it was before then. It was before then.

Let me think. Because for the longest time I did court TV. Then I would cross town. You know it can take an hour to cross town. I don't mean go uptown, downtown. I mean go from the east side to the west side. Oh, my goodness. And then for a while my EP wanted me to do a podcast.

It wasn't a podcast. It was filmed in the car, in the car, on the way where we would have our meeting about what was the focus that night. Anyway, it was insane. Yes. So then at some point, it was after I had, oh, and when I was pregnant, no one knew I was pregnant except the makeup ladies, Anita and Vincenza. And they knew because I threw up in the trash can almost every morning. And they're like, okay, I'm fine. I'll put on the makeup.

Fine, let's go. They went, okay. And then ultimately I moved back to Atlanta and started shooting the HLN show from the Atlanta flagship. Correct. And that's, you know, I was on with you a lot. Oh, gosh, yeah. I mean, I knew that you were well-known, especially in Atlanta. I mean, but I didn't understand nationally what you were, if that makes any sense.

Conceptually, yes, you were on TV. People knew you. But even back in the day in Fulton County, everybody knew you. So it was 2006. I'll never forget it. I know this story is going somewhere. It is. I'm watching The Gilmore Girls. And Nancy, I don't know if you know that show, but it's about a mom and a daughter.

It's really cute. You're not talking about Star Hollow, are you? I am. Lucy loves it. Yes, I've been forced to watch it. Now I actually like it. Okay. I don't know if it's Orwellian or not.

You do it so much you think that's wonderful. It's wonderful. But, you know, that mom on the show, her humor was so funny, but so quick. I mean, she would have these lines. She would say them so fast that if you weren't paying attention, you would miss some of the embedded humor. Well, I'm watching that show in 2006. And she's talking about her mama. Her mama drives her crazy.

Sometimes, you know, she could just strangle her or whatever. Her mother was very often right, I might add. And so she was saying she needs a buffer of her best friend sometimes between she and her mom. And she was like, look, that buffer is my mom's best friend. Without that buffer, Nancy Grace is going to be camping out on Miss Patty front lawn. And I was like, what?

Nancy Grace? I mean, how could the Gilmore girls make a reference that fast? I knew in that moment just how famous you were. Fast forward, two nights ago, Huck and Caroline bust in this house talking about Nancy Grace. They just did a parody on SNL. I don't know if you saw it, but girl, you are still iconic. I really appreciate all that you're saying. I do. And it was flattering. I got a flutter text going, hey, did that hurt your feelings?

Hurt your feelings? No, not at all. I was, you know, flattered and honored. And it could have been so much worse, basically. Oh, Huck and Caroline loved it. And they were both going, am I reading this right? You know, it was awesome. So, yeah, I dig it. And I sit there and I think, and I've said this before to you, but I'm going to say it again. It took so much guts to do what you did. Leave what was familiar. All these people that loved you with a track record that you had and go to a city you had never lived in before to do a show and then to use your name. And I've told her Caroline this.

If she had failed, Nancy Grace would have failed. If you had called the show anything else, you know, Legal Briefs, nobody would even remember you if it hadn't worked. But what you did was just legendary. So I just wanted to say it was super cool for my own children to bust in to be champion for you because they thought it was that just fantastic. Well, I don't really know how to take a compliment. I really appreciate that. But I'd like to. I feel better talking about cases than I do about any of that. just oblivious to everything going on around me other than the twins, David, mother, and the cases. Everything else is just like, what? Oh yeah, and the dog.

So thank you, but can we talk about Mangione now? Yes, absolutely. There's no telling what's going to happen next with Mangione, but what do you make Yes, absolutely. hold over his head to get a plea. I don't see him entering the plea, not with these lawyers. You know, it's freaky. His lawyer is married to the Diddy lawyer, Sean Combs. Yes, I saw that. And I'll tell you, I take a different stance. I don't think they're going to offer him a plea. I think you've got every CEO with every Fortune 500 saying this has got to end. You've got to stop it. These people are exposed. Everybody knows where they are 70 hours a week. They know their entrance, their exit. And that's the reason folks like Home Depot and Coca-Cola and Delta and all these other people have CEOs with drivers and private security because they need them.

Did you know that a new poll was just conducted? I mean, if you believe polls that states younger voters are evenly divided on whether what Mangione did was assassination or whether it was righteous. I'm going to say again, and I've said it. I have had so many people send me screenshots, whether it's the new Robin Hood, he's a hero, he's so good looking, all these things. All I can think of is how lucky you are that your life has never been touched by this level of violence

that you can think that it's okay any group any group that you can say oh they deserve to be killed in the street you have got to look at that on some level and go, wait a minute, I am so out of bounds here. Because like you and I have talked about privately, you change that rich with any other word. And you know, you sound crazy as a rat in a coffee can. I want to talk about the notebook, the spiral notebook that you keep mentioning. And I like the way you mention it and the context in which you mention it. The notebook, I can't wait to read the entries because it's going to be his handwritten notes of his musings. I've always wondered, what was O.J. Simpson writing in that notebook? Cochran would give him to make him look like he was studious and paying attention to the

trial. They're probably just doodlings. But I do know that one entry dated August 15. I know very little at this juncture, but I do know that entry said, quote, the details, the details are finally coming together. And I'm getting this from the federal complaint. Quote, I'm glad in a way that I've procrastinated. He says it gave him more time to learn about the company he was targeting. He says the target is insurance. It checks every box. I mean, we're going to learn a lot, as you described,

a rat in a coffee can. That's right. About what's going on in his, I mean, it's, because I'm curious. I don't want to get too, if I were trying the case, I wouldn't get too deeply in it, except for the probative value. This entry shows that, and that entry shows this. Because if you really get tangled up in the inner workings of his mind, I mean, it's like walking through five feet of chewing gum. I mean, you're not going to get anywhere. It's just ramblings and musings. And I don't know that I would even want the jury to have it. Well, I guess you'd have to give it to him because it's probably full of bizarrities. Is that a word? And I wouldn even want the jury to have it. Well, I guess you'd have to give it to him because it's probably full of bizarrities. Is that a word? And I wouldn't want the jury bogged down. But that said, I would love to read it. And that's why he's a contradiction. Nothing he does versus what he

says versus what he believes versus his actions add up. So on the one hand, he's a tech expert, but he's going to use a spiral notebook. He wants to hide and get away with this. Yet this is in your handwriting and found on your person. A lot of planning went in, but no streetwise activity. Like he doesn't understand how, if I used a fake ID and cash money, how in the world did they find me? Because he doesn't understand law enforcement, especially one of the best law enforcement agencies in the world. And then you've got the internet, the very thing that he wasn't even trying to be a part of because he, quote, went off the grid prior to the assassination. What you call living in a 40-story high-rise on Honolulu Beach going off the grid?

No. What? No. Off the grid is Eric Rudolph. This mangy-onity. And what kills me, wait a minute, can I tell you something else? We need to talk about this. I hate to give you all my ammo that

I plan to use on crime stories, but I will. Sister in arms. All of these photos, look at them. One of them, he's laying on his back. Okay, think about it. He's laying on his back. Think of somebody laying on a bed

and you're at the end of the bed with your camera and they lay on their back and hang their head down and look at you upside down. There's a shot of him like that with a bunch of girls. Do not throw away that last donut. Oh, OK. Never mind. They're Krispy Kremes. Why are there so many Dunkins and Sophie Krispies? Right. What's that all about? Everybody knows Krispies are better. And that hot sign? Come on now. Hot Donuts Now

sign. It's not a hot sign. It's a HDN. Hot Donuts Now. Now. All the teachers are trying to cram everything in before they go for Christmas tests and all that. So we've been living off Krispy Kreme Donuts all week. Anyway, I thought

Dave was actually, make sure there's not one left in there because I'm pretty sure mother only, okay. It's so hard to give my mother anything for breakfast that she likes. And I've just discovered she never really liked sweets. In the last couple of weeks, she loves Krispy Kreme donuts. So I usually hand make her oatmeal with those golden raisins in it okay she got tired of that okay cheese grits with bacon in it got tired of that cheese toast got tired of that now she's into Krispy Kreme donuts and I'm so happy I hope it lasts forever okay where was I oh oh the photos how could he lay on his back and hang his head down backwards off of like a hammock or something, smiling and giggling with a back problem?

Then he is pictured in a hallway tickling two girls at once as they laugh giddily. He is surfing. He is running on the beach. There was one photo, and I know you're stealing all this from me, my thought process. You love to, you know, it's like, I suppose you just suck it in. Then you spit it out like it's your idea. I'm just looking at you going, I just

said that. Then, wait, there was one with a girl riding piggyback on his back. I'm starting to be suspicious of this whole back thing. Yeah, a little bit. And, you know, he's hunched over building a firearm, which took hours and hours and hours. He's hunched over writing a manifesto.

He's hunched over writing messages on shell casings. He's running from the scene. He's bicycling from the scene. He's riding a bus. You know, there's a lot of low grade heels in Central Park. Some of them not that low grade because the twins, they grew up in New York. The twins love to play in their gray rocks. And they're really, they're all over Central Park and they're really tall. They love to get up on those rocks and be a nervous wreck.

And I'm thinking that's where he ditched his backpack. And he had to climb up those rocks to do that. Again, does not sound like a back problem. Oh, you know he's going to lay it on thick in the courtroom, though. Right. And I think all they need to do is show the video of him riding that bicycle over speed bumps and everything else. He's not wincing. And again, he chose a bus, which took four times as long to get to New York. If you've got a back problem, you're not going to want to sit for that long.

Have you ever had a back problem? Never. I'm going to knock on wood. I haven't either. But they're excruciating. They're really painful from what I understand. So I don't know. For me, the jury's out on the back, Elma, because I see the x-ray with the pins. I guess those are pins in his spine and his vertebra. But his activities, how can you do that with all the back? Why do we? Wait a minute. Number one, I think it shows he's a liar. But his activities, how can you do that with all the back? Why do we what?

Wait a minute. Number one, I think it shows he's a liar. But that has nothing to do with any sort of justification for gunning anybody down, much less somebody you've never met. You can't give me a reason. And that's the reason when people say, well, what is the motive? I don't care. There's a reason we don't have to even say what the motive is in court. To me, it's not relevant. What is relevant is this young man decided on his own that he was going to murder somebody in cold blood from the bat. I mean, what a coward, what a punk move. You won't even step to somebody face to face the only reason he's getting

the celebrity treatment is because he is rich educated white yes i said it and some people not me but some people think he's handsome that's why if this were anybody, he'd be under the jail. They'd be like, screw him. That is it. It is elitist and it is wrong. And if it was anybody else, and let me just throw in, while we're on a two-tier justice system, Rupnow, uh-uh, no. She is a school shooter. And we're all like, oh, she was so tortured.

Yeah, maybe maybe because her parents got married, got divorced, got married, got divorced. And she would be two days with this one, two days with that one, three days with this one, back and forth. Children all around the country have that whacked out shared co-parenting because the parents want to be with the child thank god they want to be with the child where one of them just doesn't take off for california and leave the other parent with the child to raise on their own i mean i i don't know when i'm looking at her and aside from her she's 15 the 20 year old man that was conspiring with her online. What a freak.

Right. And somehow they connected. Somehow they found each other. And then he's telling her, hey, I'm going to get a gun and I'm going to go do a mass shooting at a government building. Same time, she's getting a gun from somewhere we don't know from where yet. And she goes to her school of only 400 kids. I mean, what a tiny environment. Everybody had to know each other. And then she decides,

I'm going to kill however many I can kill. She had two weapons with her and then took her own life in that same incident. Cheryl, I can't believe we've made it through an entire crime roundup and you haven't thought about Eric Rudolph. And I even threw out the bait. I baited him. I said his name once. And you didn't tell a Rudolph story. Not about him and his scraggly hair and his stinky self

and eating nuts and berries. Nothing. Well, you know, there were a lot of people that thought he was good looking too. I never thought he was good looking. There was a lot of people that thought he was, especially the composite that Marla Lawson did. They thought he was good looking. There was a lot of people that thought he was, especially the composite that Marla Lawson did. They thought he was a good looking kid. The problem is, again, you've got somebody that is mentally not okay.

Please do not start that up, Dr. Bethany Marshall and Dr. Karen Stark. Don't. He is not. He was not insane. And when you say he's not mentally okay, whatever that means, but it does not rise to the level of insanity under the law, which means under the old McNaughton rule, which is brought over from Great Britain,

the foundation of our common law, which means case law, not codified as in the criminal code, whether you know right or wrong at the time of the event. That's all it means. Not like cult mom Lori Vallow, who pretended to get crazier and crazier as the days passed by while she was in jail at the time. Oh, by the way, you do know she's representing herself. Now, I would pay money to watch this, but I don't have time to go and watch that trial. But yes, she is going to represent herself. I cannot wait. But I do want to make something clear. Is this about Eric Rudolph? Because I've been waiting for you to jump on the Rudolph bandwagon. Go ahead. But his bandwagon is relevant because there's so many similarities,

but I was not in any way suggesting he was legally insane. Not at all. That's the reason he ran. That's the reason he hid. That's the reason he had a plan to get away with it, because he absolutely knew it was wrong, just like Rudolph knew it was wrong and had a plan to go hide in the Nandahala forest. That is part, and I've said it and I'm going to keep saying it, every step you make to commit a crime, you leave yourself open to make a mistake. So the more steps you make, the more chances we have to catch you because you're going to screw up.

Yeah, the more elaborate the planning and the more elaborate the cover up. A nightmare is when it's a random act on the spur of the moment and the person just disappears. That's really hard to solve a case like that, and they do happen. Hey, you know, I was talking about the federal charges. I mentioned a few. There are, the federal complaint added four new federal charges.

Shoot count, second-degree murder. Oh, gosh, I'm just looking at a picture of him right now. Oh, before I outlined the federal charges, you do know that he was out of street clothes and looking all, let me just say, well dressed in court. So he's pulling a co-burger. It's going to fail. Every bit of it's going to fail. Just like these people that are saying he's the new Robin Hood. Robin Hood killed plenty of people. That's the reason he ran in the forest in the first place. He killed the sheriff. He killed at least three that I can think of from the original

book. They don't get it, Nancy. And I'm going to say this, you know, the whole steal from the rich, give to the poor. You change the word rich with any other group, and it sounds disgusting. The other day we were talking about, and I don't even know why. Oh, it was because of me and Gionni. Robin Hood, and someone said Robin Hood never killed anyone, but actually he did. He killed the foresters. He killed 15 foresters who mocked him and wouldn't pay him. Okay, he killed the sheriff of Nottingham. I don't know who else he killed, but I know he killed that many. Yeah, he was a punk, too. You know, I'm not going to get into tearing down Robin Hood, okay?

Because we go down that path. Somebody brings up Robin Hood every time we talk about Mangione. And I'm just wondering, wait, go with me on this. Is that what they're going to do at trial? If they do that, they have to admit he's the killer. Because you can't compare him to Robin Hood if you're not admitting he's the killer. So I don't know how wise that would be. But I mean, the evidence may be so strong that they have to.

I think they're going to go with mental defect and pain. I do too. Because the reality is we've got a video. So there's not a lot they can do. Oh, it was mistaken identity. Oh, it wasn't him. Oh, he was nowhere near there. We've got him on video. So they've got to come up with something. But if they do the Robin Hood defense, I would welcome that, honey. Let's please play that card, because not only would you have to admit he's the murderer, what is it going to leave you with as far as trying to wiggle out or make some kind of deal? Because I do not believe that the prosecutor is going to make a deal in this case. I think the people that are quiet are going to hold more power. The only people you're hearing from are these misinformed people that want his tattoo and are saying that he's a martyr and saying he's a hero and saying he's the new Robin Hood.

Those are the only people you're hearing from. They are not the majority. That is the one thing I learned from Louis Slayton. I learned so much from him. My boss, my beloved boss, the elected district attorney, who's like a grandfather to me, never speak to the press. Never. And when I would, as a prosecutor, speak, when I would be caught,

I'd say the same thing. I believe the jury will render a verdict that speaks the truth, something along those lines. And you ever notice baseball players always say the same thing? Well, we're going to give it all we've got. You know, it's going to be tough. They say the same thing every time. I do the same thing because it's a no win if you start talking about your case. And you're right. The feds and the prosecutors have said very, very little, as they should. But I think when they do speak, it's going to be powerful.

So question to you. What are you doing for Christmas? I am just about ready, believe it or not. Our family, we do a huge party Christmas Eve. That's the tradition that our family has. And then Christmas morning, of course, Santa comes for all the children. And then we go to my sister Charlene's and then we go to my mother-in-law's. So we'll be stacked up. How about y'all? You're just going to have a hootenanny. We do traditionally the lunch Christmas, the Saturday before Christmas, whatever Saturday

that may be. And we have it here and we put on a big skin dig and we cook it all ourselves. This year, we've cooked all different sort of things, but this here, David, my beloved, is going to stay up all night smoking butt. And he's in a panic because he doesn't have enough butt. So he's going all over town trying to find Boston's butts. Okay. And then we do a barbecue sauce that I concoct. Then let's see what, then we have traditional sides, probably sauteed green beans. David's got a thing about coleslaw, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay. Then the graces get together on Christmas Eve. And normally I make turkey, but the Graces have requested Boston butt. So we're going to do the whole thing the whole night before Christmas Eve, except that night, too, smoking Boston butts or the Grace butts. And then there's Christmas. And then there's a Christmas Eve pageant at the church where the twins don't know it yet, but they're acolytes.

Because, you know, Lucy does not like anything to do with being in public or speaking in public. She's just very shy. So what we've learned is we have to tell them at the last minute, like, I pull up to the church in the Swankmobile, the minivan. I open the door. I let my window down about a half an inch. And as she gets out, the door shuts and I lock it. Oh, by the way, you're an acolyte.

And I drive off. If we don't do it that way for a whole week or so, she'll go, I don't want to do it. I don't want to be in front of everybody, blah, blah, blah. So we've learned that's the best way to do it. So don't tell her. Unless she listens to Crime Roundup, she won't know until about five minutes before they come to her with that big long robe and the rope they tie her with. That's so adorable.

John David's fine with it. And he's got his big long legs hanging out the bottom because there's no robe long enough for him. Hey, how about that jump ball the other night he was a foot and a half towering over the opponent and i loved i love that picture i almost didn't get it was part of a video and i had to use all my technical prowess to steal the video to get a get a still shot out of Oh, he loves basketball so much. So that's what I've got going on. And of course, my mom is here. I wish my sister and her family could be here from California, but all of her children are coming to her in California. My brother is in this neck of the woods, so I hope I get to see them, but I'll see my nephew and his wife and their children and

the lunches of a whole bunch of relatives. So I'm looking forward to that. Do you know, in all the years I have known David, I never had a single, not one crossword with either his mother or father or sister or brother, either one. Can you believe that? Yeah, I fell in a pot of honey. I sure did. And then I think about, I think about like the Kentucky moms talk about an evil mother-in-law. Whoa. And it happens a lot. I thought it was a rarity. It's not. Where mother-in-laws kill the daughter-in-law and vice versa. It's insane. The Kentucky mom, that's how I knew she did it. Because when they said we were going to meet to exchange the children,

because if she hadn't have done it, she'd have been the first one telling God and country, this piece of crap didn't show up. You know, she ain't no good. She's no kind of mama. When she didn't do that, she was my single focus. Don't you just miss those days doing right around the car together? Yes, every freaking day. But now we have children, so that's somewhat

of a consolation prize. Okay, all in an opera. Merry Christmas. I love you. Merry Christmas. I love you too, sugar. This is an iHeart Podcast.