Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cruise ship bliss turns deadly. Murder on the high seas.

Episode Date: March 12, 2020

Taking a cruise is supposed to be a happy time, but a death onboard certainly changes that. Today Nancy Grace takes a look at three murders that happened on the open seas. Joining Nancy Grace today: Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina, Family Attorney,  www.ncdomesticlaw.com  James Shelnutt - 27 years Atlanta Metro Major Case detective, SWAT Officer (RET), Attorney   Dr Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, www.drbethanymarshall.com  Dr. Michelle Dupre - South Carolina Medical Examiner & Author of “Homicide Investigation Field Guide”   Ray Caputo - Lead News Anchor for Orlando's Morning News, 96.5 WDBO   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I want justice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March 9th only on Fox Nation. This is about the victims that have lost their lives on cruise ships. This is supposed to be the happiest time of your life. With your friends, you're with your family, your children, your spouse. You're on vacation, not working for seven wonderful days.

What goes wrong? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. Welcome to Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. You know, I'm planning a Disney cruise. And no, that's not a plug. We've been on two Disney cruises with the children. Fantastic. I'm planning another one. And you know why? Because when I think cruise, I don't think murder. Even though I think murder all the time, I don't put cruise and murder together in the same sentence.

But maybe I should. Take a listen to our friend Stephen Fabian. The family of five boarded the Emerald Princess in Seattle on Sunday for a seven-day cruise. These photos were taken just before boarding the ship. The Emerald Princess, with 4,500 passengers and crew, headed up the magnificent Alaskan coastline for a once-in-a-lifetime cruise. On Tuesday night, the passengers were being entertained by, of all things, a murder mystery dinner. Then came the sound of a terrible fight that had broken out in one of the state rooms on Deck 9.

Then came the disturbing announcement to the entire ship calling for medical and security personnel to head straight to the state room. I spoke with passenger Vic Simpson on the Emerald Princess. Because they were doing a murder mystery theater about a death on a cruise ship, I think most of us in there thought it was just part of the dramatic effect of what they were doing a murder mystery theater about a death on a cruise ship, I think most of us in there thought it was just part of the dramatic effect of what they were doing. Did the person sound frantic? He did seem panicked. My stars!

I've seen those murder mystery dinners. And so when the people heard screaming, they thought it was part of their murder mystery dinner. How wrong were they? It was an actual scream from a murder. Again, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it together again for you. Kathleen Murphy, renowned North Carolina lawyer. You can find her at ncdomesticlaw.com. James Shelnut, 27 years, Metro Major, K-SWAT officer, now lawyer. Psychoanalyst to the stars, Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us from, of course, Beverly Hills at drbethanymarshall.com. And a renowned female medical examiner.

You don't find many of those. Dr. Michelle Dupree out of South Carolina, not only medical examiner, but she's the author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, which is a must read if you're a crime sleuth. But right now to Ray Caputo, lead news anchors for Orlando's Morning News 96.5 WDBO. I was just listening to our friend Stephen Fabian at Inside Edition. Ray Caputo, I don't normally put Cruz with murder in the same sentence, but what those people heard were actually the screams of a woman on the cruise, the Emerald Princess, with her family. What was her mode of death? Well, Kenneth and Christy Manzanera, they were in their cabin

when their two daughters, when an explosive argument breaks out. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Ray Caputo. The alphabet goes A to Z. I'm asking you A, okay? Because in all crime investigations,

you start at the beginning. Ray Caputo, what was the mode of death? It was blunt force trauma from closed fist, Nancy. She was beaten to death. Huh. Blunt force trauma, closed fist. You know, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Hills, no offense, Dr. Bethany, but I wanted to get your head out of rodeo drive, translation rodeo.

When you go on a cruise ship, and I've done this myself, and I actually write about it in the book that I've just written, Don't Be a Victim, you have a false sense of complacency. Now, I felt that way. We were out on the main deck, Bethany, picture this, at night after supper. And Disney puts up, of course, Disney movie. And the children can play in the pool or we can play with them. And it's at night out on the ocean. You're watching a Disney movie.

Of course, the water's only up to here. Nobody's going to drown. And it was just so calming and relaxing. It's easy to slip into a sense of complacency and think everything's okay on a cruise ship, Bethany. But Nancy, it's calm and complacent for you because you're in a normal marriage. You don't have a toxic family. I don't know. You may need to ask my husband about that,

whether it's normal or not, but go ahead. But think about this. For some families, when they go on a cruise, there are idealized expectations. You know how some people, even though they're 55 years old and it's their birthday and they get their feelings hurt because everybody doesn't, you know, congratulate them on Facebook. No, actually, I don't know that because I don't really recognize my own birthdays, but go ahead, have your way. What world are you living in out there in Beverly Hills that a grown person gets mad somebody doesn't Facebook them? Okay, go ahead. In your alternate universe, Bethany. All right. In my alternate universe, some adults act like babies. They go into vacations, holidays with these idealized expectations that they're going to be special. They're going to be loved. They're going to have these wonderful gourmet meals, romantic evenings, great sex,

intimacy. Why do you drag sex into everything everything no matter what i ask you sex gets in there go ahead hey hey hey it was a romantic cruise they did have their family along christy had her father two brothers they had their two daughters but somehow the idealized uh view of what would happen got shattered that fateful night. The couple must have been fighting. You mix in alcohol of some sort. You know what? You're right.

Let me stop you right there about the alcohol. I want you to take a listen now to our friend Dan Raskin at KUTV. I heard terrible screaming. I mean, just, you know, it wasn't normal. But now those girls have lost both parents. Their father, Kenneth Macineris, is in custody accused of the brutal murder. The family member says she never saw any serious marital problems between the two. I've never seen Kenny like an angry person ever.

The horrific screams could be heard by passengers about nine o'clock on Tuesday night. One passenger says his wife saw Macineris on the balcony covered in blood as if wanting to jump. My wife's a registered nurse. She thought he was going to jump over the rail. And at one time he put his hand on the rail and set his rear on it, but she started yelling, get back in. And the ship announced, give a security team to that area. Another passenger heard screams coming from a daughter. One of the little girls from that room came running out calling for help, but her parents had been in a fight. She sounded pretty desperate. You know, straight out to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer,

no stranger to a courtroom. Kathleen, you know, when you get alcohol, it's like pouring gas on a fire. What normally would have been just an argument. You know, my husband and I never argued. We hardly ever argued until we had children. And when we do argue, it's usually about something to do with the children or my 89-year-old mother that lives with me, as you and I have discussed many, many, many times. But we hear that alcohol was involved. Now, you're a domestic lawyer.

I'd rather try a serial killer, Kathleen, which I have done, than get in between two people in a domestic, as we call them in cop talk, in a domestic. They'll shoot you. They don't care because they're so angry and incensed. And then you pour alcohol on it. Now, let me ask you, Kathleen Murphy, what is it with domestics? They're liable to go sideways, just like that. Nancy, you know, as I've i said to you before the difficulty is everybody is putting out these appearances on social media that there's wonderful happy family but the reality that i see every single day is that there is so many problems there are so many problems that couples are having and they're not dealing with them appropriately.

So when we add alcohol to the mixture, the truth is coming out. It was an abusive relationship. And the reality is the children were on the cruise. David and I typically don't even raise, there are exceptions, of course, don't even raise our voices. If we argue, we do not raise our voices. Certainly don't curse, much less pick up a knife or slug each other in front of the children. Absolutely not. I think they should see you disagreeing because you can't live together and agree on everything. But why does it have to go so out of control.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just joining us, we are talking about cruise ship murders. And I want you to take a listen now to our friend Stephen Fabian at Inside Edition. It was supposed to be a romantic wedding anniversary cruise to Alaska, but the FBI says it ended in murder. 39-year-old Christy Manzanares was killed in her cabin on the Emerald Princess in what the FBI says was a domestic dispute. Her husband, Kenneth, is in custody. Christy had a severe head wound and blood was spread throughout the room, says an FBI criminal complaint. Her husband allegedly told the witness, she would not stop laughing at me. My life is over. Kenneth Manzanares reportedly tried to jump overboard but was restrained by the ship's crew. Christy and Kenneth were celebrating 18 MANZANARES REPORTEDLY TRIED TO JUMP OVERBOARD BUT WAS RESTRAINED BY THE SHIP'S CREW.

CHRISTIE AND KENNEDY WERE CELEBRATING 18 YEARS OF MARRIAGE. THEIR THREE TEENAGE DAUGHTERS WERE WITH THEM. PASSENGER CHRIS SEAMAN. One of the little girls from that room came running out calling for help, that her parents had been in a fight.

I SPOKE WITH FAMILY MEMBER CASEY HUNT IN UTAH. Emotionally it's just hard to comprehend having someone so sweet and so perfect taken in the prime of their life like that. Over what? The husband says she wouldn't quit laughing at me, so he killed her.

And you know, I want to run out to James Shelnut, 27 years Metro Major Case Detective, SWAT officer, now lawyer. James Shelnut, did you hear something very critical? Blood was all over the room. You know what that tells me? That it was a prolonged attack. It wasn't just one blow. She tried to get away from him, hence the blood all over the room. If it had been one sneaking up on her, let's just say from behind and wham to the back of the head, there would not be blood all over the room. So that tells me that she was screaming, that she was trying to get away, that she was fighting

back, but she could not fight back. She could not win against him. And I wonder what the blunt force trauma object, how it was inflicted. But what does that tell you, the blood pattern, James Shelnut? Well, I mean, exactly what you said. I mean, you know, this is was inflicted. But what does that tell you? The blood pattern, James Shelnut? Well, I mean, exactly what you said. I mean, you know, this is a violent attack. It went on. And this lady defended herself, I'm sure, the best that she could as a victim. She was eventually overpowered. It matches exactly what the daughters said later in the investigation. And this is something that went on for me. Well, speaking of the daughters said later in the investigation and this is something that went

on for me well speaking of the daughters talking later in the investigation back to ray caputo lead news anchor orlando morning news 96.5 wdbo ray again thank you for being with us what did the daughters say and all this is unfolding on a family cruise on this beautiful cruise liner what the children say ray well one of the girls was saying after the attack that I knew that he would do this. And, you know, it seemed to be something that the kids were aware of. You know, they knew their parents' trouble. But also, I mean, the girls were just hysterical

because they saw this going on. They actually witnessed their father just straddling their mom and pummeling her. So the girls were hysterical. But one of the girls had said, yeah, that she had thought that her father was going to do something like this. And that says a lot, Nancy. You know, to Dr. Michelle Dupree, renowned medical examiner out of South Carolina and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Dr. Dupree,

you know, I could listen to you analyze mortal wounds all day long. You have handled a lot of autopsies that were the result of domestic attacks. And Dr. Dupree, I can't tell you how many cases I've handled, all felonies, where everybody around them knew something horrible was going to happen. It was like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off, as in this case where the little girls knew that one day their dad was going to do something horrible. How can you look at a body and determine what exactly happened? I know you may not be able to determine the order of the blows, which one came first. But as far as a blow to the head being a mortal wound how does that

happen? Well Nancy that's an excellent question and what we do is we actually look at the area of the body that was struck we look at the intensity that was struck so when we look at the head wound... Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa you're the MD I'm just the JD what do you mean you can look at a body and you can tell the intensity? Because we can look at the type of force that it would cause, that would be needed to cause that type of an injury. For example, fists are going to cause injury to the soft tissue, but a baseball bat is going to crush the skull. And so looking at the different injuries and knowing what kind of force it would take to

make an injury like that, then we can tell what actually happened. You know, another thing I'm fascinated by, and this really became evident, you and I discussed this, Dr. Dupree. Do you remember Dr. Teresa Seavers, who was killed in Bonita Springs, Florida? Her husband cooked up some crazy plot with two of his, one of his buddies and his friend, and the beautiful mom of their girl's doctor brought home all the money to the home, not judging. But no, he wasn't happy. Wasn't happy with the beautiful home and the beautiful wife and the children and the money and the blah, the blah, the blah. She was killed with a claw hammer, and they could actually match up the hammer to the wounds in her head. What I'm trying to say, and not a very good way, you can actually tell the weapon that was used to inflict the blow,

like a baseball bat, like a metal rod, like a hammer. How would you tell if it was with a fist as is alleged in this case? Exactly, Nancy. We call this pattern injuries, and we can look at the pattern of injury on the body, and we can tell, again, what type of weapon caused that. A baseball bat is going to cause a different injury than a fist. A fist is going to be much more blunted. It's not going to be a specific injury like a hammer would leave a round defect. So we're going to look at that type of injury, the bruising, the destruction of the tissue, and determine that type of weapon. You know what's interesting about this, James Shelnut, is typically at trial, you cannot get in autopsy photos due to their typically grisly nature, unless and until

you can convince a judge that this particular photo shows something that only can be shown in an autopsy photo. I learned that lesson, James, when I had to show a jury, let's say, oh yes, in an autopsy, if there are head injuries, the skin is removed or pulled back from the skull. And that was shown to the jury because there were bruises under the skin, not apparent on the overlay of the skin. In this case, that may be necessary to show an autopsy photo to show how the medical examiner can tell the jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this was inflicted with a fist. Agree or disagree, Shelnut? Agree 100 percent, and it has the dual benefit for the prosecution and for the victim to get this jury mad. And to let them see what happened to the victim.

Before I go on to our next story, cruise ship and murder just shouldn't go together, but guess what they do? And that's about Lonnie Cacontes. I want to go back to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Dr. Bethany, please. He tried to jump overboard. Really?

He didn't try very hard, did he? Why do killers always say, I tried to kill myself, but whoops, I killed my wife. Why? Nancy, when they get into trouble, they make up all kinds of things. We call it malingering.

Malingering is to make up... Well, I call it something else, but I'm not going to say that on Fox Nation because I swore I'd give up cursing when I had the children. The last thing I need is Jesus mad at me, okay, on top of everything else. I'm not going to say what I call it. But why do they always say, oh, I tried to kill myself, but that didn't work, so I killed my wife? Well, the most common thing that is malingered is amnesia.

I don't, I blacked out. I don't remember. She was laughing at me. And then I started- You know where we just saw that, Bethany? Molly Tibbetts, the gorgeous jogger, the guy that killed her, allegedly said he forgot he killed her

and put her in the trunk. And then he saw her earbuds in his lap and suddenly he remembered that she was, her body was in his trunk. suddenly he remembered that she was her body was in his trunk guys that is just one example of murder on a cruise ship and this is weighing very heavily on my mind as i plan our alaskan cruise with the children on disney maybe i should plan a backyard camp out maybe that would be a safer option um but so far no murders on disney that i know of i want to talk about Lonnie

Cacontess. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. I have investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. I have covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, adults and children, unsolved homicides, violent crimes. My question is, what can we do about it? I don't want to just sit back and report on it. I want to take action. And I know you must feel the same way. And here is the news. We have all worked so hard to bring to you Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, a brand new book. You can pre-order now.

Go to CrimeOnline.com. This book is for everyone. It even includes how to stay safe while you travel, in hotels, if you're abroad. What do you do to make sure you come home safely to your family? Don't be a victim fighting back against America's Crime Wave, available for pre-order now. CrimeOnline.com, pre-order now and know that portions of our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You're listening to Crime Stories, and I'm Nancy Grace. But this isn't about me.

This is about the victims that have lost their lives on cruise ships, which is supposed to be the happiest time of your life. With your friends, you're with your family, your children, your spouse. You're on vacation, not working for seven wonderful days. What goes wrong? I want you to take a listen to our friend, Anna Garcia of Crime Watch Daily. After three days on board, he and Mickey were in their cabin late at night when Mickey told him she was going to the ship's canteen. 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night, Lonnie decides to go to bed and Mickey tells him that she wants to go get a cup of tea. And that's the last he sees of her. Lonnie says he woke up hours later, but she still wasn't back. He says he searched everywhere on board for her, even checked with other passengers, but there was no sign of Mickey. No one on the ship saw her

after the two of them went to their room. After Pete questioned and released, Lonnie is put up at a hotel in Naples while Italian authorities investigate Mickey's disappearance. But does he say to help with the search? The very next day, Lonnie catches a plane back to the States and just listened to where he lands. After one night at the hotel, he ended up flying back to the United States just listen to where he lands. After one night at the hotel,

he ended up flying back to the United States and went directly to the home of wife number three. Wait a minute. You mean he leaves that very, why does he leave? Straight out to Ray Caputo joining me from Orlando. Ray, tell me what happened to Lonnie, please. Well, Lonnie, yeah mean him and Mickey they were they were married uh believe in 2000 or late 90s and they divorced not long after about six years in early 2001 but they remained in close contact Nancy and they were having wait a minute they're divorced and they go on a cruise together yeah okay right right right Bethany Marshall I gotta go straight out to you everybody again you're joining me on fox nation i'm nancy grace this is crime stories thank you for being with us we're talking about cruise ships

and murder dr bethany marshall is that a good idea to be divorced and then you go on a cruise together a romantic cruise i mean as i always say when people ask me love advice there's a reason they're an ex or they call it a breakup because it's broken, right? I mean, this, this, oh, I like that. I'm stealing it. It's mine now. This relationship had gone terribly sour. He had remarried. They go on some kind of a cruise to rekindle their romance. But at the same time, they have this property in common that they, they, they are in half of these. She has half, he has has half and he appears to have the kind of personality and I've seen this in my private practice in Beverly Hills where one person has the assets and wants them all for themselves you know maybe they built a business together or they have a home or they

bought all this furniture but there's one person who keeps hoarding the money and resenting the other person for sharing in the largesse. And so this was sort of boiling in the background for the two of them. Wait a minute. Did you say one? What did you say? One hoards and then the other is, how does that fit with being angry because they share the largesse? How can you be a hoarder and share? Because he wanted all the assets for himself and he resented that she might share what was rightfully hers. Oh, I see. I see. I see what you mean. Hold on just a second. Ray Caputo, did you tell me that he immediately leaves the ship and goes to the place of wife number three? How many wives did this guy have?

Well, he did have three wives. He married, Mickey was his second wife, Nancy. But what's really perplexing is he got remarried very quickly after those two had gotten a divorce. So this was his third wife. And, you know, for a while she was helping him, you know, kind of being an alibi for him. So she was sticking behind him and it, you know, appeared like a valid relationship. But that third wife was eventually the undoing of Lonnie, which is what we later learned. You know, I want to go back to what happened. I want you to take a listen to our friend, Anna Garcia.

When Lonnie Kakontis met Mickey Kanesaki, he was in his late 40s, already once divorced, and an attorney at a prominent Los Angeles law firm. She was seven years younger and a paralegal at his firm when the two decided to marry in 1995. Mickey's brother Toshi says things were going well until Mickey got wind of an alleged sexual encounter between Lonnie and a younger woman. It's always she's always thinking about that incident. Not long after that Toshi says Lonnie lost his job at that big law firm and things went from bad to worse for the couple. His marriage, his job, his income, they all started going down.

Pretty soon, the marriage breaks down completely, with Lonnie and Mickey filing for divorce. Lonnie moves out of their house in Ladera Ranch, California, and shortly after that, marries wife number three. Wow, he's certainly been busy. We're talking about the death of this beautiful wife, Mickey. Mickey marries Lonnie. She had been a paralegal. He was a lawyer. Right there, I see a power dynamic to Dr. Bethany. He's a lawyer. She's the paralegal. They get married, and then she finds out he's sleeping around. They hadn't been married that long when it happened either, Dr. Bethany. Nancy, I was just thinking about this and your question about one hoarding the money and having the largesse for themselves. What is

usually a part of that picture is a power differential. Maybe somebody marrying somebody from another country where they don't know their rights in this particular country. I see this in my practice all the time. I see the wealthy athlete who gets the $50 million contract. You know what, Bethhany you've got some practice going on out there you know two wow kathleen murphy you're the uh family lawyer that's certainly a euphemism a family lawyer it sounds like you're all sitting at the family supper table having a nice meal talking about the law that's not what what it is at all. Kathleen Murphy at ncdomesticlaw.com. Kathleen, what concerns me?

This is, now defense attorneys will tell you all day long until they're blue in the face. It means nothing that he left the cruise ship before his wife's body was found and snugged up with wife number three. But I have a problem with that. You don't even wait to find your wife's body? Nancy, the situation with this case is so unbelievable

because this proof was to reconcile their relationship. And one of the things I tell my clients all the time is if you're married, you go through a divorce, come see me to do that prenuptial before you go into your second marriageial before you go into your second marriage or before you go into your third marriage to avoid these problems. Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. I'm in trouble. I didn't do a prenup. Neither did I. I'm not sure who's going to kill who, though. So as we see this unfolding, they're going on the cruise to rekindle their relationship. She goes missing.

You know, Ray Caputo, let me be clear about the facts. How did it all go down? Did she go missing? They find her body in the water. How was she found? Yeah, well, Lonnie says that he went to bed one night. It was a couple days into the cruise, and he had taken an Ambien, and he said that Mickey wanted to go up for a cup of tea.

And that's the last that he says he ever saw. Wait a minute. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Again, I've only been on Disney cruises, but they have 24-hour room service if you want it. And, of course, the children order cheese and crackers and pizza at like 1 o'clock in the morning. I know I smell pizza, and that's how I know they've done it. So why does she have to leave the room to go get a cup of tea? Okay, that's my first question, but go ahead, Ray Caputo.

Thank you for letting me break in there. Go ahead. Right. Well, the next morning, Lonnie notices that she's not even there, so he reports her missing. James Shelnut, wait. She leaves the room to go get a cup of tea. That's like being at a fancy hotel in New York City, and you go downstairs go get a cup of tea. That's like being at a fancy hotel in New York City,

and you go downstairs to get a cup of tea instead of them bringing it up to room service at midnight. And then the husband doesn't notice she's missing till the next morning? That's not ringing a red bell of alarm to you, Shelnut? Oh, the whole situation is ringing an alarm. It's throwing up red flags everywhere. I mean, this guy now has just turned into really the number one suspect if you're an alarm. It's throwing up red flags everywhere. I mean, this guy now has just turned into really the number one suspect if you're an

investigator. He's drawn a lot of attention to himself. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about a beautiful woman, Mickey, married to Lonnie Cacontes. And I want to go straight out to Ray Caputo joining us. Where was her body found? Nancy, it was really improbable that her body was found in the first place,

but it was essentially found floating in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. I mean, when somebody falls over, a lot of times they call these searches off because they're futile. I mean, it's such a large area. But it was by chance that less than two days after she went missing, a research vessel finds her body floating and recovers her, which was ultimately critical in the case, but it was just so improbable that she was found floating basically in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. Her body is found, and the COD, as I recall, joining me, as you know, we're now medical examiner, Dr. Michelle Dupree, was strangulation.

Yes. After a body has been in the water for that period of time, how can you still determine the COD? Well, again, you're absolutely right it depends on the condition of the body at the time but when we look at strangulation particularly manual strangulation there is a telltale sign of something called the hyoid bone and if that you're making me think of Epstein that no good piece of you know what go ahead hyoid bone that's right here yes so if the only way that that hyoid bone can get fractured um is through manual strangulation um it says what about

ligature guys ligature is when you use a rope or you use a twine or you use wire or a a stocking manual is by hand there's other asphyxiations as well like positional where your head's like that you can't breathe but why do you say that dr dupree because a ligature is going to end up in a different place it doesn't have the same amount of floor and it's a different right it'll go up exactly and it's a different mechanical mechanism for asphyxiation than asphyxiation by hand and so again that is a telltale sign that we see that highway bone fracture. It is the only way it can get fractured is through trauma of that nature. That's why you're the MD and I'm just a JD right there. Ray Caputo, I still say, and of course,

defense attorneys will tell you all day long into the night that it means absolutely nothing that this guy, you can see nothing of him but elbows and tail hole because he's running. He can't wait for them to find his wife's body. He's got to get snugged up with wife number three. So they find her body. How was she and her death linked back to the husband. Well, Nancy, you got somebody who's found in the middle of the ocean. And when they figure out that she doesn't have any water in her lungs and that she was strangled. And also all of her jewelry was on. So they rule out robbery. They rule out rape. I mean, all fingers are pointing back to Lonnie given that financial motive. Now, if they didn't have her body, this could have been the perfect crime, Nancy, because all of that evidence leads back to Lonnie. But without a body, it's just, you know, somebody on a ship with 2,000 people who goes missing, and there's so many different possibilities.

So it was critical that they had found her body and all the evidence that came with it. Did you see that map, Naples, Sicily? The reality is that you're absolutely right. With 2,000 people on board, it could have been anybody. And with his story that she leaves at midnight to go get a cup of tea, fat chance, it could have been anyone she encountered en route. Guys, we're talking about cruise ships and murders on cruise ships. Thankfully, on Disney, there hasn't been a murder. So I feel good about taking the twins. But when you look at all of this evidence, and these are just a few of the cases that we're aware of,

you know, well, let's switch gears and go to Tamara Tucker. Take a listen to our friends at KCTV5. This is Betsy Webster. Tucker loved many things, including travel and beaches. She was heading to a beach on the Carnival Elation in January. It left Florida for the Bahamas, but before even making it to the Caribbean island, Tamara Tucker was dead. A Bahamian newspaper reported that she fell to her death two floors below her 14th deck

stateroom balcony. It was January 19th, two days after her 50th birthday. And she's like, I'm a social worker. Amy Meyer knew Tucker only as a neighbor, but for 10 plus years, she recalled kids and families Tucker cared for visiting Tucker's home for cookouts, a different family every time. Tucker taught at Parkview in the social work program for the past decade. Before that, she was program director for the Child Abuse Prevention Association. Meyer says Tucker moved away to care for an ailing relative, so she lost touch and was understandably shocked by the development. It's like something you would read in a mystery story.

Something happens on a cruise and you don't know. You know, when you're on a cruise and a crime occurs, there are federal laws to protect you, such as the right to have an independent investigator, the right to make a complaint, many, many rights now in place. And this is for U.S. citizens. What happened to yet another young woman, Tamara Tucker? With me, an all-star panel. And again, I want to thank you for joining us. Straight out to Ray Caputo, lead morning anchor, news anchor, Orlando Morning News 96.5 WDBO. Ray, this woman is in the prime of her life. Have you seen the photos of her?

She's gorgeous. She's healthy. She's got everything to live for. What happened? Well, Nancy, this is absolutely crazy. They had boarded the Carnival Alation in Jacksonville. It's traveling for Kansas. And they weren't on this boat more than a matter of hours. And they were in their room. And this is this violent argument breaks out. So what we're hearing is, is that Eric Dwayne Newman had started

choking Tamara with a boyfriend, the boyfriend, The boyfriend. With both hands, okay? And he was choking her in such a way on the balcony that he ends up pushing her over the balcony and watches her fall down two stories to her death. Now, she wasn't strangled to death after they learned. It was that fall that ends up killing her. You know, to Dr. Bethany Marshall, I want to follow up with you, James Shelnut.

Strangulation, manual strangulation that Dr. Dupree just outlined for us, how you can tell the difference between manual strangulation, ligature strangulation, positional asphyxiation, smothering. I've always referred to it, along with stabbings, as a sweetheart crime. In other words, you have to get really up close and personal to the person, like Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander. She stabbed him 28 to 29 times before shooting him. You're close to your victim as you are in manual strangulation. You are very typically looking your victim in the face as you extinguish their life. That's a whole nother mindset, Dr. Bethany. Nancy, this was a boyfriend who had ongoing murderous rage towards his girlfriend. He faced her. He put his hands around her neck out on the balcony, and he enjoyed seeing the fear in her eyes.

When you try to strangle somebody, it is so intimate, so rageful, so powerful. You are taking delight in causing them fear and threatening them. And he was backing her out over the railing. Nancy, she didn't just fall to her death. He was torturing and terrifying her during this prolonged assault. He was pushing her out over the railing. He was watching her kind of dangle. Can you imagine her backwards?

It is evil. That's just pure evil. Looking into her eyes as she died, just for your knowledge, Eric Dwayne Newman pled guilty to second-degree murder in the death of his longtime girlfriend, Tamara Tucker. Murders on cruise ships. We've outlined three of them for you. We wait as justice unfolds.

Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.