Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cruise ship catastrophe/Death on the high seas. 'Don't Be A Victim'

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

Your planned romantic cruise turns deadly, and law enforcement outside the U.S. does not operate on our investigation standards. What do you do?Joining Nancy Grace Today: Troy Slaten - Criminal Defense Attorney, Los Angeles California Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta Ga www.angelaarnoldmd.com Medical Examiner- Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author,"Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Levi Page - Investigative reporter Crime Online Jamie Barnett - Mother of Ashley Barnett, President International Cruise Victims, www.internationalcruisevictims.org Kathleen Kastrinelis and Michael Kastrinelis, mother and father of Jackie Kastrinelis Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We now have information that post-COVID cruise lines are back in business, at least some of them. And I've got to tell you, some of the best vacations I've ever been on was taking the children, my twins, John, David, and Lucy, on Disney cruises. But, here's the but.

Don't be a victim. Fight back against America's crime wave. When you set sail and you push off from port and head out on your adventure, you need to know how to stay safe on a cruise ship. The very first story I mention in Cruise Ship Catastrophes, in this new book, Proceeds Going to National Center of Missing and Exploited Children, the first name I mention is George Smith. And here's why. Take a listen to our friend at CBS. Maureen and George Smith have grieved for a decade, ever since their 26-year-old son vanished on his honeymoon cruise in the Aegean Sea.

He left behind a huge bloodstain beneath his balcony and a boatload of intrigue. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my son was murdered on that cruise ship. The story of George Smith's last hours began with a shipboard police interview. Turkish police had gathered the last men known to see George alive. The men claimed that after a night of partying, they had tucked George into bed and left his cabin. After we dropped him off, we closed the door. We never saw him again. I was dead. Never saw him again.

No one has ever been charged in connection with George's death. This past January, the FBI announced it was officially closing the case. They just closed it without an answer. They just, I guess what, got tired of working on it. Look at this picture. I love this picture. This is a George Smith and his bride. Oops, I lost it. Jennifer Hagel. And that is just before he's never seen again. There it is. Let me try it again. Just, she's beautiful. He's handsome.

I have met repeatedly with his mother and sister who have sought justice for all this time. And now we learned the FBI is just dropping the case. What, because the trail went cold? So they just drop it? Cruise ships can be wonderful or they can be frightening. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Joining me, Troy Slayton, renowned criminal defense attorney joining us out of L.A., Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Cloyd Steiger, 36 years Seattle PD, 22 of those on homicide, author of Seattle's Forgotten Serial Killer, Gary Jean Grant. He's at CloydSteiger.com. Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet, and the new star of a hit series on True Crime Network, Poisonous Liaisons, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Levi Page, Kathleen and Michael Castanelis, mother and father of cruise ship victim, beautiful young girl, Jackie Castronellis. But first, to special guest, Jamie Barnett, the mother of Ashley Barnett, cruise ship victim, and the president of International Cruise Victims at internationalcruisevictims.org, the group founded by George Smith after his son died on a cruise ship.

First to you, Jamie, I know you are intimately familiar with the George Smith case. Just 26 years old. I still remember the name of the ship. It was Brilliance of the Seas, correct? I believe you're right. And it was a really upscale cruise line. I mean, when I'm shopping for cruises with the twins, I go with Disney, of course, because it's all kid related. It's not singles who are drunk and ready to mingle. You get on with mostly with children. So I like that atmosphere for the children. But I looked at other cruise lines, and some of them are tens of thousands of dollars more expensive.

So the brilliance of the Seas was a top-end cruise line. What happened, Jamie, when George goes missing? The only thing left was a trail of blood. You know, and as tragic as George's story is, the fact that the FBI closed the case and they have no closure, no answers, is in itself not unusual for any of us who have lost loved ones on cruises by suspicious activity or unknown incidences. It's just a mystery. We're all left like that, every one of us. I almost did a, let me just say, bitter, ironic laugh when I heard our friend Robert Schlesinger at CBS say the Turkish police. Right.

Really? That's like saying the Mexican police. Right. Yeah. Nothing's going to happen. They do not care about a dead American on an expensive cruise ship. Don't care. The passengers in the George Smith case were all let go.

The event surrounding the night George Smith was murdered. His body has never been found. Can you even imagine that? No. I mean, Dr. Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, I know what happened to my fiance, Keith. He was murdered. He left a work site on a construction crew at lunch to go get everybody's soft drinks to go with their lunch at, I guess, 7-Eleven. Comes back,

and a guy that was fired off the worksite before Keith started working there was waiting at the gate and unloaded when he saw the company truck come back in and he shot Keith five times in the head, the neck, the face and the back. I know what happened. At least I know if that's any consolation. The Smith family has no idea what happened to their son, George, who's about the age of Keith when he's murdered on a cruise ship. All they have is a trail of blood. No body, no nothing. How awful is that?

And you're hearing Jamie Barnett with InternationalCruiseVictims.org say that's what happens. You never get answers. And I mean, imagine, Nancy, you never have any closure either. There's always got to be that thought in your head that maybe they're out there somewhere. You never have. It is so unfair to happen to a family because they can never fully recover from that and move on with their grief process the way they should and get to the point of acceptance. Because there's always that hole that's missing, that unknown of what happened and where is the person. Oh, the thought that they might still be out there somewhere with amnesia or God knows what. To Levi Page, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

We're starting with George Smith. There's so many cases of people being murdered at sea and the investigation falling through the cracks. Because think about it. The U.S. authorities are not in control. This is in international waters or on another country's borders. So we're not in charge. So we can't guarantee the safety of the victim or the police investigation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're starting off with a story of George Smith today. To you, Levi Page, I want to go through what happened to George, but in the new

book, Don't Be a Victim, Fighting Back Against America's Crime Wave, it's not to scare you. It's to arm you with evidence. My very first tip after telling George Smith's story, and this is not casting blame on anybody. You're on a ship in the middle of the sea. What's going to happen? But first, don't get drunk. I've given this tip more than once, but it bears repeating. Think back to missing groom. This is his honeymoon, dream honeymoon, George Smith. While we're not exactly sure what happened, we know at least every witness account includes heavy drinking that night, specifically absinthe. Joe Scott Morgan, what's absinthe?

Absinthe is actually a liquor that was originally developed in the Al Saint Lorraine region of Switzerland in France and was derived from a plant called the wormwood. Some people actually call it being visited by the green fairy. And in the past, they would put little drops of opiate in it. And what it does is it gives this real euphoric feeling, Nancy, where you're real loose and malleable to things that are around you. And it has previously been a very scary drink in some countries. It's actually outlawed for people. That's right. But was not outlawed on Brilliance of the Seas.

What happened, Levi Page, that night? You got a groom. He's left his wedding. He's left for his dream honeymoon with his wife, Jennifer. Beautiful girl. What happened? So, Nancy, it's July 2005. He is on the Royal Caribbean International Cruise Ship MS Brilliance of the Sea. He married

his wife, Jennifer Hagel, 11 days earlier. They're both in their mid-20s. And they're on the ship. There were stops in Greece, Turkey, Italy, and he vanished. There was blood found in his cabin, as well as on the side of the ship. That indicated foul play. We know that the night that he vanished, he had a fight with his new wife. She was seen with him at the Starquest Disco, and she left him. She passed out on a deck hallway. Security officers found her. They woke her up by pressing ice cubes to her face, and they had to return her to their cabin in a wheelchair, and George was not there. And the New York Post reported in 2012, Nancy, that the matter had been referred to the mafia division of the FBI. And some had speculated that this was a robbery gone bad because George had been gambling.

And we know that there was an American named Josh Askin he was looked into, along with two Russian men, Greg Rosenberg and Zach Rosenberg. He'd been drinking heavily with them, gambling. But the Connecticut FBI in 2015, they closed the case and are no longer investigating. That is a heartbreak. Jamie Barnett, mother of Ashley Barnett, another cruise ship victim, and president of internationalcruisevictims.org. The thing is, it's not the victim's fault.

He was on his honeymoon. His wife and he had been drinking at the bar with their new friends on the brilliance of the seas. She could not take the absinthe, and she passed it. They had a fuss, which often happens when everybody's drunk. They have a fuss. She stomps away. She passes out from the absent.

And somebody finds her hours later, still passed out, same clothes she had on at the bar. They have to wheel her back to the room. The significance of this is she is not a suspect at all. Period. End of story. When she gets back, is wheeled back, he's already gone. It's over. He's already dead. The next morning, looking for him, she sounds the alarm. Where is he? And when you look out their window, there's a balcony. It's high up for safety reasons.

Look down and Jamie Barnett, isn't it true that you see a trail of blood, a lot of blood? It's George Smith's blood. Correct. Correct. And again, go ahead. No, I just I can't imagine the scene what she, the kind of thoughts that must have been going through her head and what all she knew and didn't know. The reality is that the rail, you'd have to be an Olympic gymnast. You'd have to be Nadia Comaneci to do a get over that rail or for her to throw him over that rail. So someone strong enough to throw George Smith over that rail, I think, pushed him over. And then he hit a series of objects as he went into the sea.

That is the thinking body never recovered. What happened? Don't get drunk too. Always true, but bears repeating. Be careful who buys or brings you drink. Drinks. Never take a drink from a stranger. Always get your drink directly from the bartender and guard it at all times. Never agree to be walked to your room by someone you've just met, especially after you've been drinking. Keep your wits. Write your deck and cabin number on a piece of paper and put it in your pocket in case drinks impair your memory. Can I tell you something? Uh, Troy Slayton, you're never going to believe this, but when I took the twins on a Disney cruise, you know, John David and I got separated. This is what happened. We incidentally met a friend

from school who's in the twins class, a little boy, and they all wanted to go to the tween hangout. Troy, can I tell you how many times I said they cannot leave until I come get them. Okay. It was written in and they have all the safety watches on and everything. You can't come in or come out unless you hit a button and it shows your room and your name and all that. So that was understood. My husband egged me on to let them be free for a couple of hours. So I'm like, okay. Lucy had been there for about an hour and called me on the ship walkie talkie that she was ready

to come home. I went and got her. John David stayed with his little friend. It got to be 10 o'clock. That's when they were supposed to be done, Troy. So I called the tween zone place, and there's no John David there. Well, you know, I nearly did a backflip. I had on my PJs, T-shirt and gym shorts, barefoot. My husband, he said, I'll go because he knew he was in hot water. So he goes, and I couldn't take it. I could just imagine someone luring him into their room and him being thrown over like George Smith. So I grabbed little Lucy and I'm dragging her.

We're running up and down this huge Disney ship looking for John David. And I'll never forget the moment when I saw him at a distance. I'll never get over that scare. And this is what had happened, Troy. The other mother came and got her son and John David said, oh, I'm going to go too. And he walked with them to their room. And it wasn't that far to our room. But I knew none of that. And the employees thought that was his mom. That's how it happened.

But Troy, on cruise ships, people let their guard down. They're not cognizant of what's happening around them. They think everybody's there just to party just like them and have a good time. That's not always true, Troy. It's not. Booze crews can get very dangerous. You're out there on the high seas and everybody needs to be vigilant and look out for themselves. So that way we don't have a tragedy like happened here. Troy, can you just get real for one moment, please? And you're a very successful defense lawyer, but take off your defense hat just for a moment and tell the people the truth.

Would you really trust, let's just say, the Turkish police or the Mexican police investigating the disappearance of your child? Think about it. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But I do have more faith in the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI who is involved here, who heavily investigated the case. I do have more faith in them. But the problem with their investigation is they had to rely on what the Turkish police did at the scene at the time. They weren't there. So they're basically screwed because the Turkish police messed the whole thing up. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Guys, we're talking about staying safe while on a cruise. It's the mindset. You're out there with all these people to have fun, a lot of drinking going on. You're a little careless because the same rules in your mind don't apply. Like when you're home, that is so wrong. And I tell you all about it. And don't be a victim fighting back against America's crime wave, not to scare you, but to arm you with facts to help you stay safe and protect your children. Take a listen, but first, hold on. Let me go to Kathleen and Mike Castronellis, who have been through hell and back. How did your daughter, Jackie, end up performing on a cruise ship?

Well, she was in New York City. Waitressing? Yeah, waitressing, on her way to becoming a star. And auditioning. Go ahead. No, she went to some open call auditions, and this was one of them for this high-end cruise line. And lo and behold, they called her back.

They liked what they saw in her and booked her onto the first of what turned out to be three cruises over the course of the next year and a half. And that was her first big break doing what she loved doing, which was singing and performing. You know, it's interesting. I remember after Dancing with the Stars, I was invited to go on a Dancing with the Stars cruise, which I thought would be awesome fun, but the children had already been away for a year living in L.A.

It was time for school to start, and so we kiboshed the cruise. But I found out that a lot of stars and stage performers start on cruise ships. You know what I heard just then, Cloyd Steiger? I heard Mr. Castronella, Jackie's dad say it was a high-end cruise line. So is George Smith. So are the ones we're talking about. And I noticed that when people talk about neighborhoods, like, oh, it's a gated community. Crime happens everywhere, Cloyd Steiger. Yeah, you're right about that. The fact that it's a high-end cruise ship, maybe a person booking it at ease, but maybe it's also, again, getting into the complacency that it puts you so you trust too much when you go on those cruises. If you were on kind of a cheesier cruise, you might have your alert up a little higher. But yeah, just because it says high end, people do things.

Matter of fact, they may target, predators may target those kind of ships. That's a good point, Cloyd Steiger. Back to Jackie, back to Jackie's parents. Let me ask you guys, how did you find out your daughter had died? We actually got a phone call from Jean Ann Ryan from Jean Ann Ryan Productions, which is the talent agency that did the auditions for Regent Cruise Lines. So it was Jean Ann Ryan and we were out for the evening and she called our home and she tried our cell but it was noisy in the restaurant so we didn't pick up so my unfortunately my oldest son took the

phone call and called us and told us to get home so that was about 10 30 at night that we got that call and Gina and Ryan didn't really know any more details except that Jackie was dead. You know that feeling of helplessness because she was so far away and you were not getting enough information about what happened. I cannot even imagine that. Now, you were given information that she died.

A young girl of natural causes in her sleep. She's just 24 years old. The information that you were given about how your daughter died, does it match up what you know? Regent being a high-end cruise line, she had to undergo each contract, a full physical, I mean, just so in-depth blood work, echocard checks, echocardiogram checks, everything. And there's no signs on the sheets or the bed that she passed there. It was clean. I mean, she's tucked in, which is unlike her. And the cabin access records, which are the only objective evidence they had, that they didn't seem to have any video, do not agree with the storyline that they put in the report.

There's absolutely no agreement there. That sounds very unusual to me, Joseph Scott Morgan. You're the professor of forensics. She was in perfect health, a performer, age 24, no history of ailments, nothing at all. And they say she died in her sleep by herself in her bed. The sheets were perfectly pristine. She was tucked in like you would do a child. No sign of struggle. Nothing. It doesn't make sense to me, Joe Scott Morgan. No, it doesn't. Young, healthy people don't just drop over dead. They just don't, as we used to say, wake up dead, for instance. It's not something that you walk into a room and you think that things are normal in this instance where you have this vibrant 24-year-old that's obviously physically capable of traveling around the world on a cruise ship and performing, and then suddenly she's dead. That would bring us to ask questions. First off, was there any trauma to her body whatsoever?

Was it noted? Did anybody make note of that? I'm not just talking about the bed. I'm any trauma to her body whatsoever? Was it noted? Did anybody make note of that? I'm not just talking about the bed. I'm physically talking about her body. And what was going on with her from a chemical standpoint? What did she have in her system? Was there a thorough toxicological examination done? And then probably finally, I'd want to know at autopsy,

did she have any kind of congenital problems? Like with her heart, for instance, was there something going on with her heart that suddenly would bring about her death? I'd want to know if she had been raped, which is what you find out in an autopsy, which of course is going to be very difficult to do on a cruise ship. Back to the Castronellas family with me, Jackie's parents, Kathleen and Michael, either one of you. What more can you tell me about how she was found and the condition of her body? She was found, from all appearances, she passed away in her sleep in her cabin by herself with no signs of any type of struggle or anything like that.

Again, that's what we were told. And the information we have from the initial crime scene photos and things like that, that we do actually have now. We've been assured by the people that looked at that for us. Yeah, it appears that she passed uh peacefully in her sleep but the initial reports and this is what we kind of were hanging on to and that was that she had hit her head a couple days before and that that was the situation that there was some type of head injury that went undetected and that's what the press had been carrying in the process. And it turned out to be false. So everything they're learning to you, Jamie Barnett, mother of Ashley Barnett, another cruise ship victim, and the president of internationalcruisevictims.org, everything

they're told turns out to be a lie. I find it very difficult to believe that this young girl just died by natural causes in her sleep. And then they find out everything else in the report is wrong. It's not unusual, though, Nancy. And that's what's so frightening. I'm listening to this story and it just horrifies me on one hand, but it also has an echo of so many cases that I know of where the information is incomplete, inaccurate, and totally lacking. It is nothing like an investigation on land. If this had happened to her on land, it would have been an entirely different scenario. That is what is so frustrating, and the cruise lines do it over and over and over. As a matter of fact, Kathleen Castanelas, there are discrepancies about who went in and out of your daughter's room, right?

Detective Henry, in his first report to the coroner there, when he gave, or whoever did the autopsy, to the autopsy doctor. And the way back of the report, I found his initial report that he handed to the autopsy doctor. And it said she swiped into a room at 10 of 1 and then there's an unaccounted for swipe at 1.40 a.m. An unaccounted for swipe? So he called the second one unaccounted for in his first, like unexplained. An unexplained swipe going into your daughter's room. And they say it was natural causes.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Guys, please, don't be a victim. Fight back against America's crime wave. I want you to have fun on your vacation like we do, but I want you to go on your trip with your eyes wide open. Money proceeds from this book going to National Center of Missing and Exploited Children. It is full of information to protect you, not scare you. Specifically, today we're talking about how you can be safe on cruises. Don't make it obvious you're alone, that you've gone to your cabin alone. If you're traveling alone, make a friend early on who would notice if you're not around.

It's the law of the jungle. Predators try to isolate prey from the herd, then attack. There is safety in numbers. Don't wander around isolated or hidden areas of the ship by yourself. I was just on a cruise two years ago with the twins, and when we would go jogging or walking around the full deck, there was one area on the far end where there would be nobody. It was inside. The rest was outside. But I noticed that Disney had put up cameras and emergency phones all along that very short area for that reason, because it was isolated. Double your safety measures when walking at night.

Just because you go to your cabin doesn't mean you're safe. Yet, not all the room doors shut completely or automatically. There's so many things to keep yourself safe that you may never think of. Joining me, an all-star panel, to Jamie Barnett, mother of Ashley, a cruise ship victim. Guys, take a listen to our friend David Wohl at CBS2 LA. One day after Jamie Barnett's daughter departed Long Beach for a three-day Mexican cruise with her boyfriend, Jeff Ginsberg, she got a horrifying call from the ship's nurse. I was out of town when I got the call, and it was from the nurse telling me that Ashley had passed away. Ashley's boyfriend told authorities that she went to bed at about 2 a.m. the first night of the cruise.

Twelve hours later, he found her lifeless in bed. Did you ask to speak with Jeff, her boyfriend? Yes, I certainly did. And what happened then? They said that he couldn't right then. He was being questioned. After a cruise ship doctor tried in vain to save Ashley, her body was left in Mexico while her boyfriend continued on the cruise back to Long Beach. As the ship docked, Jamie Barnett was there, hoping for some answers.

She was met by a Carnival official. I'm so-and-so. I'm from Carnival Cruises. I'm terribly sorry about your loss. Let me see if I can find someone to help you. And that was the only contact we had in four hours of standing in the rain. Four hours standing in the rain trying to find out information about her girl. With me is Ashley's mom, Jamie. Miss Barnett, it's just so hard for me to even take in that a ship nurse calls you and tells you Ashley's passed away? And very little else. Just that she had been found in her cabin and had passed away. And that was all they knew. And, you know, I can remember most vividly thinking over in my head to this day in such a loop. You know, it's just something you don't ever get over, ever. It took a long time for us to find out her cause of death.

But we never found out the manner of her death, ever. You know, Carnival Cruise Line, in a written statement, says the crisis, the crisis being your daughter's death, was handled, quote, and I'm reading it, appropriately. Do you believe that? No, not in the least. Not in the least. Explain. It took, from what I have gathered, and I have to say that it is very hard, very difficult to gather information when your loved one dies on a cruise ship. The cruise ship is not going to readily divulge it to you.

And the FBI at that point hadn't been on the ship. They're in Mexico. The Mexican authorities are now involved. Oh, Lord. Yeah, it is so difficult. What happened with her is they took her off the ship in Mexico, as your news clip indicated, and left her there. I mean, no single person in the group she was with or from Carnival stayed with her as she was taken to a morgue in Mexico and had to be autopsied there. And then for her to go back into the United States, she had to be embalmed. so after that the the the coroner's office in LA wouldn't touch her because she'd already been involved and thank god I had friends who knew well you got to hire a private forensic pathologist

I didn't even know such thing existed and we a week it took a week almost to get her back to LA and to this private pathologist who had precious little to work with at that point. And why is that to you, Joe Scott Morgan? Why is it the laws are that the body could not come into the U.S. prior to being embalmed? And once you embalm the body, you lose evidence. Explain. Yeah, you do. Well, there's health concerns relative to customs.

OK, moving a body from one country to the next, the body has to be embalmed. do you lose evidence? Explain. Yeah, you do. Well, there's health concerns relative to customs, okay? Moving a body from one country to the next, the body has to be embalmed. But back to the point right here that it's critical. Once the body has already been autopsied down there in Mexico, first off, you don't know what kind of job they did. Was it sufficient to the task? I would guess that it probably wasn't. You've lost all of those tissues, Nancy. Listen, what we're dealing here with is an element of time, every minute, every second that clicks off of that clock. And by the time this poor girl's body makes its way back to the United States, the forensic pathologist gets their hands on her remains to examine her.

The body has passed through a myriad of points along the way. So you're losing evidence and you've also lost this critical tissue. If we're talking about things like heart tissue in particular, brain tissue, lungs, all those sorts of things that you want to look at, that's gone, Nancy. It's completely gone. Which means you will never get the truth. Never. The reality is there is the Death on the High Seas Act, which somewhat regulates investigations of deaths on the high seas, but the reality is that the local law enforcement, wherever you may be,

are the ones that are going to investigate, in addition to the ship detectives. Here, a nearby volunteer firefighter heard a ruckus, runs out, and performs CPR on Ashley. This was a birthday cruise. She was going to celebrate what was soon to be her 25th birthday. Jamie Barnett, who's Ashley's mom and president of internationalcruisevictims.org. Jamie, you said that there is a loop that keeps playing through your head. What is the loop? Well, just that, the phone call that every parent dreads, every parent, and to actually get it. You know, for someone to call you and say,

I hate to tell you this, I'm so sorry, but your daughter passed away today, just is there forever, every parent's nightmare. You know, that's the loop, that call, that call, over and over and over. Ms. Barnett, can I ask you, when you think about Ashley, what is your most vivid recollection of her? Oh, Ashley was one of these kinds of people that when she walked into a room, you knew she was there because she just filled it up. You know, she was so outgoing.

And the kind of person you just immediately took a like to, the kind of person who was never, never felt uncomfortable, whether she was with princes or paupers. She was just delightful and she was an aspiring young actress and was coming back to have conversations with several different agents because she was lucky to have many agents that were interested in her. And she was cheerful and happy and in great spirits when she left. So I, you know, that's just kind of a thumbnail sketch of who she is and what a wonderful young woman she was. So much to live for. So much ahead of her.

So much excitement. And you've spent the rest of your life fighting for justice, not just for Ashley, your daughter, but for everyone else that takes a cruise. Guys, please, I'm going to spend the rest of my life protecting my children. Yeah. Don't be a victim. Fight back against America's crime wave. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.