Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - CRUISE TEEN CHEERLEADER DEAD FROM 'BAR HOLD' AFTER STEPBRO-SUSPECT SKIPS DAILY DRUG COCKTAIL

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

New details emerge in Anna Kepner's alleged murder during a family court hearing regarding Thomas Hudson’s emergency petition for custody of the 9-year-old daughter he shares with Shauntel Hudson. Hudson is concerned for his daughter's safety under Shauntel Hudson and Christopher Kepner’s care, due to their failure to closely supervise their older children during the cruise Thomas didn’t want the children to take. Shauntel, Anna's stepmom, confirms her 16-year-old son is the only suspect in Anna’s murder, her younger brother Connor having been cleared of any potential wrongdoing. Hudson’s lawyer says they are unsure if the FBI will press federal charges or hand the potential murder case over to state authorities. Shauntel also testifies their 16-year-old son is staying with her relatives after his hospital release from psychiatric observation and claims he will NOT be returning to the home she shares with Christopher Kepner and the remaining three children, even in the event the FBI concludes their investigation without charges. Shauntel’s oldest son, Andrew, testifies his mother allowed him to drink alcohol in the past, a story corroborated by Shauntel’s stepmother, Sonya Ziske. Ziske witnessed Shauntel's pour herself and both of her sons, 16 and 14 at the time, a shot of liquor. Joining Nancy Grace: Spencer Aronfeld - Trial lawyer and Founder of Aronfeld Trial Lawyers, Author of illustrated children's book "Sara Rose, Kid Lawyer;" Facebook: Aronfeld Law, Instagram: Aronfeld_Trial_Lawyers Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant, Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Jon Buehler - Former Detective for Modesto Police Department, California (31 years in robbery and homicide), Worked as Detective in the Scott Peterson Investigation Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of Podcast "Mayhem in the Morgue," and Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University) Susan Hendricks - Journalist, Author: “Down the Hill: My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi;" IG @susan_hendricks X @SusanHendicks Krystal Wright - Aunt of Anna Kepner Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories' See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The cruise team cheerleader, Anna Kepner, dead from a bar-hold asphyxiation after her stepbrother, 16, now named a suspect. We learn he misses, he skips his daily drug cock. tale of meds. Was he on some type of an agitated withdrawal?

And tonight we learn as punishment he's sent to relatives. Why no charges in the death of a teen girl cheerleader found stuffed under a twin bed on a cruise?

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. That little girl stuffed under a cruise ship bed, wrapped in a blanket, mummy style, with life as stuffed over her. She, quote, thought for her life. And this is one thing I don't get. Why am I learning all of these facts from a seemingly unrelated custody argument?

The family dynamic lands this very, very blended family in court. fighting over custody of the younger children, straight out to investigative journalist, author of Down the Hill, My Descent, into the Double Murder of Delphi, Susan Hendricks. Why am I having to learn all of this from a seemingly unrelated custody fight? Absolutely, and the infighting. It's been going on a while, and we're getting information from this through that, as you said, and where is the outraged. I watched the entire hearing. We're getting bits and pieces. The suspect's older brother, it stood out to me that he said he was put in a chokehold. So is that where I'm guessing that the suspect learned to do that? But you're right, Nancy, we are only hearing details through

this somewhat unrelated hearing. It's just very complicated. I feel, you know what's missing? The outrage of this 18-year-old girl, Anna. Yeah, everybody was sitting in court like they were all on sedatives talking about custody issues when Anna, we believe, is either nude or partially nude, dead, wrapped mummy style in a blanket and stuffed under a twin bed, and we find out the parents haven't even seen her for how many hours to Sidney Sumner joining us, in addition to Susan, Sydney Sumner, investigative reporter for crime stories. Sydney, how long was it? The parents didn't see Anna on the cruise and didn't check on her? Sixteen hours that Anna was not checked on, seen alive before her body is found, brutally

stuffed under that bed, hidden, covered with these life jackets. Guys, we're only getting dribbles and drabbles of evidence. Facts that we're learning, including nearly a day passes without the parents checking on Anna. Well, the whole time she's dead. Her body cooling, decomposing. evidence drifting away while they're what at the buffet and the bar? I don't know. But we will find out from all of the video cameras. I mean, you know, Spencer Erinfeld, you're the cruise lawyer. I'll introduce you formally in a moment. But these cruise ships are, they're like gambling in Vegas. It's like you're at NASA. Everywhere you go, there's a video camera. And I want to see that video who went in and out of that cabin where Anna was found dead. But I want to know what were the

parents doing the bio dad and the stepmom. What were they doing for nearly a day without checking on Anna? What were they in the bar, the buffet, round two? Most likely, Nancy, they were probably at the casino or in the spa or enjoying themselves. Remember this young lady was April? Oh my, wait a minute. Did you say casino? So people can drink like fish and then belly up to lose all their money at a casino? What casino? Absolutely. I mean, these are like floating Las Vegas resorts. So there are casinos, there are spas, there are numbers of pools, there are shops, there are tons of restaurants, and most importantly, tons of bars. But this was an 18-year-old. So probably the level of supervision was not as intense as it would have been if she had been 15 or 14 or younger than

that. Put him up. I believe at one juncture you told me you had children. Did you not? I do have kids. They're adult children. I can tell you exactly where my 18 year old twins are right now. I can tell you how they feel. They don't have a temperature. Lucy actually has a mild temperature right now in a little cough. I know exactly where they are. I don't know what you're even talking about. You've got a young girl on the high seas. You know how fast

she could be sold into sex slavery. She's just what those people want. Her. Oh, no, no, no, no. 18, not supervised. You know what? I'm calling defects on you tonight as soon as I get off the air. Susan Hendricks, nearly a day passes. They don't know where she is.

And in the midst of all this, where are they? I asked Erinfield, and he brought up the specter. I felt I'd seen a monster of a casino. so they can drink like fish, eat at buffets all day long, and then gamble? Do we have any idea where they were while Anna was stuffed dead under that twin bed? Well, we heard this also at the emergency custody hearing. Anna's stepmom, Chantelle, said that she went in her room at 7 p.m. That she was tired.

She was there for the night, went to sleep. But again, we don't know what she was doing all day. She asked about gambling. She said that Anna was 18, so she assumed she was in the casino, but again, no supervision. And guess what, Nancy? She was asked during this, Chantelle, on the stand, is it true that they stayed across the hall? All of them together, her stepbrother, her biological brother, and her, and she said, yes, it was recommended by the travel agent. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard she tried to blame the travel agency.

Hold on, I got to go to John Bueller. Guys, if you don't know the name, John Buehler, Google it. as soon as I found out that Lacey Peterson had disappeared on Christmas Eve while her husband, Scott Peterson, was fishing. Yeah. John Bueller, one of the very first detectives on that case, worked the case like a dog. There at Modesto PD, 31 years robbery homicide. who gets stolen into sex slavery on cruises and trips abroad? Hey, forget it. At the Atlanta airport.

Beautiful young, teen girls. Agree, disagree, Beeler. Oh, totally agree. They're the target-rich environment when it comes to the people that are trading in that, and they lure them with a variety of different promises and things like that that they find hard to resist. then all of a sudden it's too late, they're trapped, and they can't get away from it. Beeler, you know, I've had so many sex trafficking cases, but one that really shocked me. A young teen girl goes to Daddy and me, the dad wants to do something bond with his daughter.

He takes her to a Mavs game. Control room, wasn't it, a Mavericks game? They go to a professional game. He goes to the bathroom. She goes to concessions. She's lured away. You know how they found her? a detective like you, by the way, is trolling online. He sees her. She's been missing for days.

They think she's dead. She pops up on an internet site in racie lingerie. Some hooker's site. This little teen girl. Sex trafficked. I don't know how many clients she had before she was saved. So to have your daughter or your son, but your daughter in the casino where grown men are in, they're drinking as much as they can and gambling, and then they see Anna Ketner, that is a recipe for disaster. Well, just because she's 18, of course, isn't going to take her out of, you know, the realm of these guys, any young girl like this, and especially on a cruise ship, inhibitions are low, the drinking is high, she's ripe to be attacked, but of course it goes right back to the

main suspect, the stepbrother on this. Well, yeah, you're right. She was not sex trafficked. We know that. But what I'm saying is there's no supervision. Okay, how are we finding out all of this information? Listen. A family court hearing regarding Thomas Hudson's emergency petition for custody of the nine-year-old daughter he shares with Chantelle Hudson reveals new details in Anna Kepner's murderer. Hudson tells the court he's concerned for Brooke's safety under Chantel Hudson and Christopher Kepner's care due to their failure to supervise their child. during the cruise Thomas didn't want the children to take. Chantelle Hudson testifies her 16-year-old son staying with relatives after his release from psychiatric observation. Oh my goodness, let me understand something. Wait, wait a minute. Susan Hendrix, the judge in this hearing confirmed the teen stepbrother is the main suspect in Anna's chokehold asphyxiation.

That's murder. there's no two ways around it chokehold as fixation her neck covered in bruises and his punishment is out he has to go whiv with well-watives that's the punishment yeah even um chantelle and the suspect's mom said that when she was on the stove why are you referring to her as chantelle you're on a first-name basis no i it's confusing to me the stepmother Shantelle Hudson? Stepmother, correct, correct. And the mother of the suspect, she was on the stand and did say he was the only one scene in and out.

It's like they're all in agreement that, yeah, he's the main suspect. Why isn't he arrested? He's staying with her relatives. Just staying there, chatting on the phone. Okay, you know what? I don't know how to say this without my head exploding, but Karen Stark, I'm going to use some Karen Stark's psycho talk. That's sending the wrong message. He's a suspect in a brutal murder of a little teen cheerleader who's stuffed under the twin bed.

Nobody knows she's missing for nearly a day. Nobody checks on her. There she is. He's a suspect, and he is, quote, sent to live with relatives. That's his punishment. Might as well just sit him in the corner. Well, as you could tell, Nancy, something that's really wrong here, and that's to say it mildly. With the parents, they didn't supervise enough.

And what is he doing at our relatives? I'm particularly concerned because there were two nights where he did not take his insomnia medicine, which is clonopin. And clonopin is something, especially for a teenager, who has ADHD, which allegedly he has. It's not a good thing to stop the clandum, there's a rebound effect.

He could have all of a sudden be out of control, not make wise decisions, be impulsive, impulsive. So even there, something was very, very wrong with this family supervising this boy, or all of them, I guess. You know, you said that they didn't supervise enough. They didn't supervise at all. I know for nearly a day. They didn't supervise Anna because they didn't know she was dead. Her body stuffed under a twin bed. Let's jump to the fact that this teen stepbrother suspect skipped his daily drug cocktail. Listen. Hudson admits her son missed two doses of his nighttime prescription for insomnia, Clonidine. Chantelle Hudson testifies she

carried her son's medication dispensing it to him at the appropriate times. Clonidine is prescribed to manage high blood pressure, ADHD, or withdrawal symptoms. It's also often used off-label as a sleep aid. While Clonidine doesn't have serious side effects, abruptly stopping can lead to a rebound in blood pressure, sweating, and agitation. Did I hear the word agitation causes agitation to Dr. Kendall Crowns joining us? He is a renowned chief medical examiner in Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth, never a lack of business, as I like to say. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU, and he is the star

of a hit new podcast, which I have played on Loop, please, I need a new one, by the way, feed my addiction to mayhem in the morgue. Dr. Kendall Crowns, I have cross-examined many a doctor, which is hard to do, because we lawyers really don't know what we're talking about when we talk about meds or operations

or, you know, medical examiners, autopsies. We're just reading your reports and extrapolating, but I learned how to read the side effects of various drugs, and I'm pretty sure that agitation can be a side effect to this particular drug. What does that mean? If he skipped his daily meds, what would happen as a withdrawal and is agitation a side effect of this particular drug? So the answer is yes. Clonidine is used to treat ADHD and high blood pressure. When you stop taking it, you get rebound headaches and you also get irritability, mood swings, agitation, and it kind of increasing in your ADHD symptoms coming back.

So one of the symptoms of not taking it is irritability. and mood swings with frustration. Can you say the part about frustration again? Yes. Well, one of the side effects are not taking on one of the withdrawal symptoms is frustration or you become irritated by minor things quite easily. You know, I'm just thinking this through and I want to circle back to Susan Hendrix is joining us investigative reporter.

We're learning a lot of information from this emergency. custody hearing, which the judge denied, by the way, the bio-dad is trying to get the younger children away from Chantelle Hudson. That's Anna's stepmother and Anna's bio-dad. They're married, Christopher Ketner. The bio-dad is trying to get his younger children, is Thomas Hudson, away from Chantel Hudson, and they're duking it out. It's become a mud fight, a mud-sling showdown in the courtroom, and we're learning this evidence. So, so far, we have learned under Chantelle Hudson's watch, the stepmother, no one was supervising Anna. Nearly a day passes, and nobody has even seen her, much less know whether she's at a bar,

at a restaurant, face down in the pool, at a casino. Nobody knows where she is. she's actually stuffed under a twin bed dead. The stepbrother, now murder suspect, according to the judge, missed two days of his daily cocktail of drugs

meds, he's prescribed. And we know that there was a prior altercation that the boyfriend of Anna Ketner observed. He saw it. Could you describe what Anna's boyfriend

saw the attack by the stepbrother on Anna and the parents did nothing. Yes, they were on a FaceTime call and apparently they were talking for a long time. She fell asleep and it did all of a sudden he sees now the suspect the stepbrother come in tried to get on top of Anna and he said on FaceTime the ex-boyfriend now, what are you doing?

Get off of her. He even went to the parents and said this is happening. No, it's not, he said. They ignored him and the warnings. So it's not like nothing had ever happened before. This happened. The ex-boyfriend went to the parents and said, this is happening. You have to do something.

And they did nothing. As I mentioned, Chantelle, the stepmom who was on the stand, she was asked about that. Oh, no, I call them the three amigos, best of friends. Did she forget that that incident happened in denial about it? I think so. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. This is Anna's ex-boyfriend, her little teen ex-boyfriend, and according to the boyfriend and his father, they warned the bio dad. Listen.

She just didn't feel safe around him. She's scared to tell anybody because she was scared that he would do something to her. Joshua 2 says Anna's close relationship with her stepbrother was one-sided. The 16-year-old is obsessed with Anna and made her. uncomfortable with romantic advances. He once even caught him trying to climb into Anna's bed while the two were on FaceTime, Anna already asleep. He said that I tried to tell the parents that this was happening and they didn't want to believe me. He's like infatuated, attracted her like crazy. He's always wanted to date her. Chris doesn't realize it's his fault. This whole thing is

his fault. If he would have taken the warnings that Anna's ex-boyfriend gave him, then she would still be here. So keep that in mind, Christopher. From Inside Edition at Just Mom, 1984 on TikTok. She's dead, stuffed under a cruise ship bed. Anna had two bruises on the side. of her name. There are so many confusing details about this case. Spencer Arundale joining us, the so-called Cruz lawyer. He is not only a veteran trial lawyer. He is an author, and he is the founder of the Erinfield trial lawyer firm. Spencer, I want to talk to you about a very serious issue. It came up during the hearing. The parents, the stepmother and Biodad vehemently deny it, but can underage minors get alcohol on cruise ships?

Absolutely, Nancy. There's a thousand and one ways that an underage minor can obtain alcohol on a carnival cruise. Number one is carnival can serve it to them, either accidentally or on purpose. I've seen it both ways. Another passenger can give them alcohol. or here is one of the most common ways is they sneak it on board. There are hundreds of videos on TikTok

of inventive passengers who have found ways to sneak alcohol on board carnival cruise ships, they put it in mouthwash, they put it in feminine hygiene packages, they reseal them, they re-label them. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is going to be a positive alcohol finding in this case,

the majority of cases that I've had in my 35 years of suing carnival involve the consumption of alcohol. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Susan Hendricks, the stepmother and the bio-dad, they insist none of the children. had alcohol. But I want to circle back to Chlonidine. I've researched it, and I'm going to throw this to you. Dr. Kendall Crowns is joining us, Chief Medical Examiner, Terrant County.

Agitation as a withdrawal system, quote, is critical not to stop taking clonidine abruptly as it can lead to withdrawal reaction, a rapid, dangerous increase in blood pressure, agitation, nervousness, headache, tremor, shaking, shaking, shaking, or fast heartbeat. And he missed, I believe, two days of his drug cocktail that he was prescribed. And now she's dead. It's correct.

So the withdrawal symptoms start occurring immediately. But in 24 to 48 hours, they're going to be increasing over that time period and becoming worse. So all those things you're describing, the headaches, the nervousness, the agitation, frustration are all going to be compounding as well as ADHD. symptoms, whatever those may be, may be coming back as well. So he may be having psychomotor disturbances or like he can't sit still or he can't control his thoughts and thoughts are racing and all that's going to be occurring during these two days and becoming worse the longer he's

off the medication. So the more time, the worse the symptoms. And any potential alcohol consumption is only gas on the fire. I've got another issue. And what we're talking about is no supervision of these teams. I want you to hear what the younger brother says happens the night Anna is murdered. Anna's brother heard a heated argument between them in their cabin the night before Anna was found dead. He heard the stepbrother yelling at Anna, the sounds of furniture overturning and screams from inside their room. He heard him yelling at her, like in a harmful way of like shut the hell up and stuff like that. like something was like banging around and stuff

and like the chairs were getting thrown around in the room. Now that is Anna Ketner's little ex-boyfriend and he learned that information, obviously, from the younger brother. That's from our friends at Inside Edition. So John Bueller, former homicide detective, the younger brother, I believe he's 14. What, coward in the hallway? Because what we're learning is right across the hallway.

all he had to do is at stepmom's door, but he didn't. Where were they? Why couldn't he go to the Biodad and the stepmom? Why? Where were they? Back at the buffet? Yeah, it looks to me like there was complete lack of supervision, and they had a lot of warning signs coming up on this.

They should have known that there was friction between, you know, our cheerleader victim and this stepbrother. They saw it, they heard it from her ex-boyfriend, and even in spite of that, why would you put these two teens together in a row? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Complete lack of any type of responsibility on the part of the parents from what we've seen. Now, maybe there's things we don't know about, but there's also going to be problems with the case when it comes to a variety of different things that have popped up that are going to frustrate investigators. Now, again, Chantel Hudson and the stepmother and Christopher Ketner and his biode, they're married now, insist nobody drank. Listen. On the stand, Chantel Hudson testifies her 16-year-old son was not allowed to consume alcohol during the cruise.

Chantel's oldest son, Andrew, testifies his mother allowed him to drink alcohol in the past, a story corroborated by Chantel's stepmother, Sonia Zisk. Zisk witnessed Chantel pour herself and both of her sons, 16 and 14 at the time, a shot of liquor because they wanted to know how it tasted. They wanted to know how it tasted, so Mom pours them a shot of liquor. Okay, normally, many people would say, not judging. Karen Stark, when you mix liquor, alcohol with clonidine, what happens? Well, then the symptoms are exacerbated for sure, Nancy, because you become much more uninhibited. Think about what alcohol does to you. Then you're adding on the fact that this boy did not take his medications if he did have

alcohol and he has hormones that are raging. He's 16 years old. That's a very dangerous situation. And it's so surprising to me, I have to agree. that anyone would ever let this boy be in a cabin with an 18-year-old beautiful step-sister, not a bio-sister, which also could be a problem, but this is a step-sister. And he apparently is attracted to her, but I'm not surprised about that. He's 16, and he doesn't make great decisions.

He has ADHD, core executive functioning. So this was a disaster waiting to happen. You know, I know that Chantelle Hudson and the biodec, Christopher Ketner, are insisting that the travel agent arranged the location of the room and did not get adjoining rooms. And I'm going to go into that in just a moment. But I'm trying to figure out when the stepbrother, the little brother, the little brother, the 14-year-old, is hearing. chairs being thrown around. And the 16-year-old yelling, shut the hell up at Anna. When you hear a physical fight going on, the little 14-year-old brother standing out in the hall, listening, cowering, afraid, what time was that? Because, according to what we are learning tonight,

step mommy and husband were right across the hall asleep in their cabin. Is that real? Listen. Question about the last time she saw the teens the night before Anna found dead. Shantelle Hudson says Anna leaves dinner for her room 6 p.m. in pain from her braces. She last sees the boys an hour later returning to her own room 7.30 p.m. Neither she nor Christopher Kepner check on the teens at all, meaning Anna. isn't seen for more than 16 hours before her body is discovered.

Let me understand, Susan Hendricks. So while Anna, we believe, is getting barholed, asphyxiated in her own room, what, 10 feet across the way? I mean, the hallways are about four feet wide max, and they're in the next room over. and the little brother standing in the hall crying and cowering, where were they asleep? Why couldn't he just knock on the door? What really happened? Why didn't they just walk across the hall and put it into it?

Yeah, why didn't they hear that? And the 14-year-old, you're right, Nancy, why didn't he just knock on the door? By the way, the grandparents were one floor above. Could he run up there? Could he scream out for help? Nothing. Then he went back in, and he didn't see.

see, Anna. Meanwhile, she's dead under the bed. We feel there are some circumstances regarding that the 16-year-old and the mother's judgment regarding that crews that would affect, you know, obviously that her ability to care for the minor child, the 9-year-old. The 16-year-old was allowed to drink. The teenagers were given their own room in which to stay. a lot of circumstances that showed that the mother in this case was not exercising appropriate supervision over this child. They've got Anna dead stuffed under a bed. They've got the 16-year-old reportedly a target. Everybody now asking these questions, the stepbrother being a suspect.

What is the truth? Why no charges? Tonight we understand the 16-year-old stepbrother, a suspect and teen cheerleader Anna Kepner's death, the bar hold asphyxiation of a little girl, even though he is the only target, the only suspect of this juncture, he has not been arrested, he has not in custody. As punishment, he has been sent to, quote, live with relatives. Okay. Tonight we learn that the stepmother, Shantelle Hudson and Anna's bio dad Christopher Kepner, place the blame of the rooming arrangement on the travel agent. Listen. So this is what it looks like in the rooms when you have the two twins, whereas the other one is the one king. The only difference is obviously that put those two in the middle and the two side

tables go on the end. I'll double back to my room just to show you. But again, this is the interior of 6209. The king bed is in 6215, totally adjoining rooms. So I'll shuffle back to mine really quick. So again, that's the king bed with the two side tables and the two beds pushed together. Carnival provides options for family lodging, including adjoining interior, balcony, ocean view, and cove rooms on nearly every deck and the family harbor section of the ship caters to parents with children. That from Ask Cooks on YouTube, But again, Hudson and Kepner lay the blame on the sleeping arrangements on the travel agent. Listen.

Chantel Hudson testifies their travel agent recommended teens Anna, Connor, and her 16-year-old son share a room. While Hudson and Christopher Kepner sleep across the hall with younger daughters, Brooke and Kylie. Hudson says the teens were all for it, describing them as the three amigos. Hudson claims all three teens were aware grandparents Barbara and Jeffrey Kepner had an extra. bed in their room and someone could sleep with them. When I was looking at the layout that we just showed you, I'm thinking, Sydney Sumner, the adjoining rooms are highly popular. And as a matter of fact, on Carnival Cruises, there's a whole area of the ship, the cruise ship, that caters to children that are traveling with parents. And it's a very common feature, adjoining rooms. Isn't that

true? Yes, it's very common across Carnival cruise ships. On the horizon, nearly every single deck has adjoining rooms available to passengers, but they do sell out really quickly. Carnival says these are their most popular rooms, and they encourage people to book early if they're wanting accommodations like that because they sell out so quickly. We are also learning, as Susan Hendricks has told us about a very contentious custody hearing and an emergency hearing relating to taking the younger children away from Chantelle Hudson. Listen to this arrangement. Despite their written custody arrangement, Thomas testifies Chantel agrees to exchanges then doesn't bring the children at the stipulated times. When Chantel does show with Christopher Kepner in tow, Kepner is the

one to approach him and say the children don't want to go. Thomas claims he gets no unsupervised contact with the children and can hear them in the background on speaker as chantelle and chris tell him they don't want to speak to him crime stories with nancy grace shortly after his mom's move andrew says shantelle and kepner unexpectedly pick him up from school in the car shantel turns his phone off explains they're heading to titusville and Andrew says he doesn't want to go. The 16-year-old tries to get out at a stoplight, but Shantel and Kepner put him in a chokehold, nearly half an hour.

When they arrive, Andrew immediately calls his worried dad who couldn't reach Andrew for hours after the school notified him the team was picked up. Thomas drives four hours round trip to return a shake in Andrew home. Susan Hendricks, I need a flow chart to figure out who is who. What happened, and I hear that disturbing phrase chokehold used again. Yeah, the suspected... killer here at all of this, his older brother, Andrew, 18 years old, said that he was picked up. It sounds like this has been going on for quite a while, this nasty acting for testing

about. He was picked up. He said, no, I don't want to go to my mom, I want to stay with my bio dad. They say, no, you're staying here and he was put in a chokehold. So when I heard that, when I listened to it, emergency hearing, I thought, is that what the suspect saw? Is that why he knew how to do that? And what's lost in this of one nasty is Anna, how did she die?

How did she literally slip through the cracks with her parents right across the hall? Even if they just heard that and didn't believe it from the ex-boyfriend that something went on, you knew that, that was in the back of your head and you put them in a room together, unsupervised on a cruise, it's unforgivable. The Carnival Cruise teen girl, the little cheerleader, thought for her life, strangled dead, a mechanical strangulation. When is something going to happen? When is there going to be an arrest? When are the answers going to come out?

And what does Anna Kepner, the teen cheerleader's biological mother have to say about all of this? The relationship between her bio-mom and her bio-dad, Christopher Kepner, who was on that cruise with her, apparently across the hall from her at the time she was strangled dead, has being given. has been contentious to put it mildly. Listen. You cheated on me with 24 other women, including Tabby. And then you married her after she turned 18. And I'm not okay with that. Mind you, I say that. But I'm not mad at Tabitha.

Tabitha is a great person. She was a mother to my daughter what I couldn't be. By the time Anna is five, Christopher Kepner is having an affair with a teenage babysitter. When Tabitha Donahue turns 18, Chris marries her, and they have two children together. Heather has a hard time maintaining a relationship with Anna due to the bitter divorce with Chris. That from at Just Mom 1984 TikTok, joining me right now is the bio mom, the biological mother of Anna Kepner, the teen cheerleader, sister Crystal Wright. Thank you for being with us, Ms. Wright.

Yeah, absolutely How is the bio-mom Heather Wright handling everything that she is learning about her daughter's death? I think she's trying to keep it together. She's trying to

do right for Anna and make sure that those that are accountable are held accountable. What does she make of the fact there is no arrest yet? he is beside herself but at the same time he's just trying to tell herself that it's because they want to make sure they get him properly charged

and that his charge is able to uphold in court so that he does take the time joining us to shed some light on this for Crystal Wright and Heather Wright is a renowned cruise line lawyer is Spencer Aaronfeld Spencer right now there's a game of hot potato being played between the feds and the state. And we don't know who is going to take jurisdiction.

What's going on? Why the delay? Okay, so both the federal government and the state can simultaneously, if they choose to, prosecute this young man, and they can both have different results. He could be acquitted in one, convicted in the other. And this is exactly what happened if you recall Nancy and the Rodney, King case, he was prosecuted both in federal and state court and only was convicted in one.

So both of these prosecutors are probably fighting to have an opportunity to take this case, and both can and probably will proceed with this under the dual sovereignty doctrine. Well, what I'm curious about Spencer Erinfeldon, you're the expert in this, what is taking so long? And if the stepbrother, the teen stepbrother, off his meds, is the target, is the suspect, and they've been very clear that he is, nobody else, why hasn't he been arrested? My guess is they're just trying to get their ducks in a row. They may be waiting for the toxicology report.

So, you know, I would rather them wait and get it together and get it right than rush to file this. and risk the chance it might get dismissed on some technicality. Or worse, Spencer, the defense could always slap the state with a speeding trial demand, which means the state's got to go forward within the next two, typically next two grand jury sessions. And if the state's not ready, when the charges are brought, they may face an acquittal if there is a speedy trial demand. So you're right. And you're right. And then I hate to say this, but in the midst of all this was thanks.

Christmas and New Year's. I hate to think they're waiting to get through the holidays to do this, but that is something I see frequently where they're saying, you know what? We'll tackle this at the beginning of 2026. So there's that possibility. Oh, my stars, I hope you're wrong. I mean, to Crystal, right, this is Anna's maternal aunt. Crystal, the thought that everybody's taking a break, every Christmas and Thanksgiving, instead of handling this case, that's disturbing to Heather's understanding, what has she been told? Certainly, law enforcement has briefed Anna Kepner's biological mother about what happened. Yeah, no, Heather doesn't know anything. She finds out from the news. She just sits and waits for the news.

That is horrible. No one is speaking to her and telling her what happened to her daughter. Isn't it true, Crystal, that the biomom, Heather Wright, had to sneak into her. her own daughter's memorial? She did. Chris had told her that if she attempted to come, that he was going to have her arrested for back cow support. He never once tried to call me, get a hold of me in anything when she died. I found out through Google. Heather says on top of discovering Anna died through internet searches instead of her father,

Kepner also told her she wasn't welcome at Anna's celebration of life service. She claims Kaptner threatened to have her arrested. Heather wore a disguise to her own daughter's memorial so she could say goodbye and peace. Heather is not mentioned in Anna's obituary. From Wesh, too. That is heartbreaking. I mean, to you, John Bueller, you are a veteran homicide detective. Can that be true that the non-custodial biological mother is calling law enforcement,

asking about what happened to her daughter, and they won't tell? Well, it's certainly true that that can happen. Depending on the detective you're dealing with, Some have a little bit more heart than others and are maybe willing to talk to them. But there may be some efforts by the prosecutor to say, hey, look, we got to keep some of this stuff under the close to the vest, and we don't want you talking to these people. But it really doesn't take into the human account that you have to have for victims' families when it comes to these things.

I know from personal experience, getting a lot of family members involved can create some friction in the investigation, but they have enough on their hands with a crime scene that was probably compromised. You got family loyalties that are conflicting with the truth, interviews, and all sorts of things. This really is a salad bowl of all sorts of things that are difficult to work with when you're putting a murder case together. The biological mother, Heather Wright, has had nothing but trouble since her split with Christopher Kepner. Listen, Christopher made it next to impossible for me to have a relationship with my daughter. He made it extremely hard for me to see her.

He would ignore my phone calls, not tell Anna that I called. And then call like a week and a half, two weeks later. And I'm like, Mom, I hadn't called me. And I'm like, I've been calling you. You didn't get any of my voicemails? Your dad didn't let you listen to him? No. He said you haven't called.

Tonight, if you know or think you know anything about the death of teen girl Anna Kepner, please dial 754703, 2000. Anything that's been said, anything that you've learned, if you were on the cruise and you observed something, 754703, 2000. We remember an American hero, Officer Austin Cooley, Kaufman PD, Texas. Just 27 killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his wife turned widow and a three-month-old baby girl. American hero, Officer Austin Cooley. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an I-Heart podcast, Guaranteed Human.