Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Cult mom Lori Vallow and hubby Chad Daybell reunite!

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell will be reunited as a judge rules their cases will be tried together. He cites several reasons, including the problems of seating a jury in the middle of a pandemic. The couple faces multiple charges relating to the death of Vallow's children, JJ and Tylee.Joining Nancy Grace today: Joseph Marrone - Philadelphia, criminal defense attorney, www.marronelaw.com  Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, ww.drbethanymarshall.com Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet" featured on "Poisonous Liaisons" on True Crime Network Ben Levitan - Telecommunications Expert, www.benlevitan.com Nate Eaton - Reporter, East Idaho News Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, a bombshell ruling by a judge and a cult mom, Lori Vallow Chase. Will it change the course of events? With me, an all-star panel to break you down and put it back together again. But first, take a listen to this. An Idaho judge ruling that the case against Chad Daybell and his wife Lori Daybell will be tried together. The judge saying that both have a common scheme linked to the

allegations. He also wants to avoid having trials that are too similar and consider the COVID-19 safety guidelines involving finding one jury as opposed to finding two. So Daybell is accused of concealing the remains of Lori Vallow's children, JJ and Tylee Ryan. Those bodies were found on his Idaho property. His wife faces similar charges. You were just hearing our friends at Fox 10 News Phoenix. I wish the judge hadn't said so much because just think about it. If you're being charged, if you're being tried for murder and the judge said, well, I'm going to try you with the other killer because your trials are so similar. You know, the justice system is not about cutting corners and cost saving. It's about doing the right thing under the Constitution. that Lori Vallow, cult mom, and her brand new hubby, Chad Daybell, the doomsday cult leader,

are going to be tried together under the law. Not because you don't want duplication, but because they are connected by a pattern of facts. They are connected by scientific evidence. That is why they're being tried together. Now, again, under the law, if this were a death penalty case, the likelihood is they would not be being tried together. Let me introduce you to our all-star panel. First of all, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst to the Stars.

Joining me out of Beverly Hills. You can find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Philadelphia criminal defense attorney Joseph Marone at maronelaw.com. Joining us from Philly, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and the star of a brand-new series, Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network, Joe Scott Morgan, telecommunications expert out of Raleigh, Ben Levitan at benlevitan.com. And that telecommunications evidence is one of the reasons Cult Mom is going to finally get to sit next to her new hubby in court. Nate Eaton, reporter with the EastIdahoNews.com.

Nate Eaton, you were the one that followed them all the way to Hawaii and got this whole thing kicked off. But for those of you that need a refresher course, take a listen to Kaylin Ford, Inside Edition. Ryan was devoted to him. The FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children were part of the search. Police said this doorbell camera footage was the last known video of JJ. The police said the children's mother, Lori Vallow, wasn't helping to find them and had never reported them missing at all. Never reported your own children missing. J.J. and Tylee. J.J. just seven, Tylee 16. And then this is when cult mom Lori Vallow really showed her true colors.

Listen to Kaelin Ford, Inside Edition. Authorities in Idaho had given Lori a January 30th deadline to prove the kids were okay. But she didn't show up. Then, on February 20th, Lori was arrested in Kauai and charged with felony desertion of JJ and Tylee and misdemeanor charges of resisting and obstructing an officer, solicitation of a crime, and contempt. Lori made her first court appearance in Kauai before being extradited to Idaho. Straight out to Nate Eaton with eastidahonews.com. Nate, you've been on the story from the very beginning. That was you running along beside cult mom Lori Vallow asking, where are the children?

Where are the children? You got a pretty icy response when you told her that all across the world people were praying for the discovery of her children. She didn't seem too happy about that. I bet she's stewing mad right now after this judge's ruling. What's happening? Well, we do know after this judge ruled that the cases will be combined. It was actually Chad's attorney that opposed joining them. Lori's attorney and Lori was just fine with the issue.

They didn't raise any sort of concerns with it. Chad's attorney says if we combine them, the media coverage is going to be too much. He won't get a fair trial. He won't get a fair shake, Judge. We need to separate these trials. The judge said no way. And now the proceedings will go forth if everything goes as planned early next year. Let me understand. So Colt Mom's lawyer did not want the cases severed?

Lori Vallow's attorney was fine if they were joined. They were just fine with having the proceedings together. He raised no objection. Okay. Let me bring in our defense attorney, Joseph Marone, out of Philadelphia. Knows his way around the courtroom. Joseph, I've never heard in a capital case such as this one, well, of course, they haven't been charged flat out with a murder yet, but in a case of this severity, having both lawyers fight a joinder. Well, I think each attorney has his own strategy. But Lori's attorney just didn't oppose it. I mean, there's still an opportunity for severance because there's a possibility Chad may plead out, right?

So he just didn't oppose it. And really, Chad's the one with the big problem. The bodies were found on his property. He's the one that kind of led this whole cult. A lot of the evidence kind of gears to him to being the leader. He has the problem. She, on the other hand, is going to play as if she had ultimately was just led into this, really had no direct involvement and really didn't know what was going on. Now, that's the story. Now, I don't know whether or not these attorneys are going to be able to sell that. But I think it's definitely against Chad for these two to be together.

I mean, it's a bad situation. I think it's against both of them. And I'll tell you why I called it the melted cheese theory. You know, when you get a ham and cheese, how the cheese melts down over everything. The reality is, in this case, Dr. Bethany Marshall, you're the shrink. And boy, do we need one right now. When all the evidence comes in about these children, one of them being dismembered, buckets of flesh and a skull. These are two little children.

They're her children. When all that comes into evidence, you don't think that jury's going to look over at her and think, how in the H-E-double-L did you let this man engineer this? They are going to look at her, and I just looked at her pictures, Nancy. The last time she was in court, her hair was done up. Oh, please, why do you always want to remind me about her getting her hair done and her makeup done and her nails done before she goes to court?

And that was before her children's bodies were found on her brand new husband's property. Well, what does her hair have to do with this, Bethany? Well, Nancy, I have to add lash extensions. She looks like she's wearing lash extensions. Sorry, I don't know what those are. Go ahead. They are semi-permanent fake eyelashes, and I'm wondering how she got those in jail, but that's besides the point.

What the point is, is that the jury is going to look at this woman and say, not only were you not bonded with your children, because there are some women who never bonded. I don't think that's what they're going to say, Bethany. They're not going to be worried about bonding. They're going to be worried about that green plastic bucket of flesh. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're talking about the death of two little children and in the last hours, a major bombshell from the court. We learned that both cult mom Lori Vallow and her brand new husband, Chad Daybell, are going to be tried together. This is a huge, significant ruling in the case because of what I call the melted cheese theory. Everything that comes in against one of them will melt on to the

other. Now, renowned psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Hills, Dr. Bethany Marshall, is telling me that the jury is going to be angry that Colt Mom didn't bond with her children. And I say they're going to be more worried about the green plastic bucket of human flesh. What about that, Dr. Bethany? Well, Nancy, as always, you're right. It's the cruel, heinous aggression towards the children, not only killing them, but dismembering them. And this is a woman who preferred her religiosity, preferred her husband, preferred a new life to her own children. And what we see with mothers who kill, moms who kill, is that they always have a sense that they're going to have this idealized life once their children are out of the way. But Nancy, she could have placed them with a relative. She could, they were, you know, JJ was seven. Tylee was about to go off to college. She could

have lived with them a few more years and then had her idealized life. But no, she didn't stop there. She tortured them. She dismembered them. She, she mutilated their body. She's going to blame him. Her lawyer is going to blame Daybell. And that goes back to what Joseph Marone, the Philadelphia criminal defense attorney was saying. He was saying it's going to hurt Daybell more to have them joined. But I think it's going to hurt Coltman more because, you know what, let me go through it with you. Joe Scott Morgan, hold on, Bethany, before you give me your shrink opinion on this. Joe Scott, if you could describe the way the bodies were found. Well, first off, let's take Tylee's body, Nancy. Her

body was essentially found immediately adjacent to what's being referred to as the fire ring, and also an associated area where animal remains had been buried in the past. The pet cemetery where they buried their pets. That is where the body was found. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And it kind of gives you, for me at least, it gives me an indication that she was a bit more dehumanized than JJ. And I'll explain that in just a brief second. But suffice it to say. You mean that when she turned into a teen, she started saying the ugly word no to mommy?

And mommy wanted her to do something because I feel like that. Let me go to Nate Eaton. Hold on. I'm sorry, Joe Scott. I'm going to circle back to you. Nate Eaton. I started with you and somehow I got lost with Dr. Bethany Marshall.

Okay. Nate, I think that Tylee started pushing back against Lori Vallow and that JJ just sometimes out of control with all his hyperactivity. He's a little boy and she was just fed up with it. This is a major ruling, Nate. Why? Well, we know that there'll be one jury. There'll be one judge. Both Chad and Lori will be in the courtroom together. Their attorneys will both be arguing on their behalf. Now, remember that additional charges could be coming. Right now, these two have not been charged with murder. Yeah, I don't understand that, Nate.

What's the problem? There's a dead dismembered body, two bodies. One's dismembered on his property. And the whole time, the cops are searching it, he's on the phone with cult mom in jail. And she's saying, did they find anything? Of course she knows the bodies are there. Why aren't they both being charged with murder? Well, the one thing we do know is that her brother, Alex Cox, who's now dead, was out there at the property the day that those bodies were allegedly buried, according to the police. So one of their theories, one of their defenses

could be that Alex did it, and he's no longer here to defend himself or to be charged with any sort of charge. So the prosecutor has said all along he's going to be very careful with this. There's also been some COVID restrictions as far as grand juries meeting here in Idaho. They're not meeting and they haven't been meeting for months. So if they can meet by Zoom. Not in Idaho. They're not allowing them. Oh, why? They have to meet in person. They have to be there to be able to see the evidence so that, you know, other people. Social distance. see the evidence so that you know other people aren't social distance uh that right the supreme court of idaho has said no grand juries can meet okay now all right if they were going to indict by grand jury that's caused a wrinkle in the case one thing to remember uh nancy too one year ago

this week november 5th chad and maury got married on the beach. So they're celebrating their first anniversary this week in separate jails just weeks after Chad's wife Tammy died. And we are still waiting on that autopsy result from her death. It's been a year now. We still don't know how she died other than police are saying that it's suspicious. Nate Eaton, I had no idea you were such a romantic keeping up with their anniversary. And another bombshell in the case are their other suspects. Take a listen to our friends at Court TV. Lori Valdebel has an upcoming trial, and she's got an attorney named Mark Means,

who's a very aggressive advocate for his client. And he has now gone online and is doing what I'm calling a means tweet. Not a mean tweet, but a means tweet. Take a look at what he tweeted here. All the rats are running. He tweeted that. And he tweeted, as I prepare the defense for Lori Vallow Daybell, I am learning that persons like Melanie Gibb and her boyfriend, David Warwick, appear to have been eagerly, quote, involved in more than they let on. If you know something, say something. Well, he's got a nerve.

If you know something, say something. And he's representing cult mom Lori Vallow. She knew something all those months and didn't say a darn thing, Nate Eaton. She knew where her children were. She said nothing because she knew they were dead. So, Nate Eaton, it seems to me that the suggestion of other perpetrators is rearing its ugly head through Lori Vallow's lawyer. He's pointing the finger at then close friend Melanie Gibb. What's the story? Well, Melanie Gibb has been one of the key witnesses with the prosecution. At the preliminary hearing, you might remember she played a phone call where she confronted Chad and Lori. I believe it was about 20 minutes saying,

why won't you say where JJ and Tylee were? This was a phone call from last winter, before they'd been arrested, before anything was out there. Melanie Gibb knows a lot. The prosecutors are going to use her a lot. She knew Chad and Lori better than anybody. She has recordings. She has notes. She has journals. So, of course, the defense attorney is going to try to go after her to poke any sort of hole in her story that he can. Well, as a matter of fact, what kind of witness will Melanie Gibb be? Remember, she was in the initial charges thrown at cult mom Lori Vallow, a charge that cult mom tried to get other people to lie about the children's whereabouts. That was tried to get Melanie Gibb to lie about the children's whereabouts. And it became a charge in an indictment.

Take a listen to Melanie Gibb talking to Nate Eaton. When you realize that the people that you know and you're close to and love have been involved in something that has to do with kidnapping and people dying, you start to think, oh, my gosh, are they going to come after me? Is she afraid for her own life? Are they going to come after me? You're hearing Melanie Gibbs speaking to Nate Eaton. So, Nate, where is Melanie Gibb? And does

she know they're trying to blame her for the murders? Yeah, she's aware of it. She is getting ready to take the stand when this eventually goes to trial. She told me as recently as last week that the truth will prevail. That was her response to Mark Means' tweet. That really doesn't tell me a whole lot. The truth will prevail. What truth is she talking about? She's confident in what she knows and what happened in her relationship with Chattanooga. Nate, come on. Everybody that goes to court says the truth is going to come out. Even defendants die in the world convicted say, oh, the truth is going to come out. Well, it usually does, actually. It usually is about them. I hope Melanie Gibb is right.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, in the last hours, a major breakthrough in the case. We now know a jury will hear all the evidence because cult mom Lori Vallow and her lover-turned-new-husband Chad Daybell, the doomsday cultist, they're going to be tried together in the same courtroom. They'll finally get to see each other in the flesh. They've been living off phone calls to each other behind bars. I wonder if they know those calls are being recorded. each other in the flesh. They've been living off phone calls to each other behind bars. I wonder if they know those calls are being recorded. Take a listen to what we know about the bodies, how this whole thing started. This is Detective Ray Hermosillo.

They removed some topsoil that was right underneath the sod, which revealed three large white rocks, flat rocks. Okay, and can you explain for the court how those rocks were oriented? In a row, so there was a large rock, a large rock, and a large rock. Okay, after you observed that, what did you observe next they removed the rocks and it underneath the white rocks was some thin wood paneling okay and what did you observe them do with that paneling they removed the paneling okay and then what did you observe initially as soon as they removed the paneling i could smell the odor of a decomposing body

and take a little bit more of a listen to the detective listen once that was discovered what did the er what did you observe the er team to excuse me what did you observe the ER team team do they continue to just work around the head that was exposed they took pictures they did whatever their team leader instructed them to do okay I was an item of interest eventually pulled out of that area? Yes. And can you describe what that item of interest looked like? It was what appeared to be a small body tightly wrapped in black plastic covered in duct tape. There was also a melted green bucket that appeared to be the burnt flesh from one of the children

and a partial human skull found under the bucket. The remains were placed in a bag and put in the coroner's vehicle. The children's burnt flesh in a green bucket. How did that happen, Joe Scott Morgan? My thought is, Nancy, that bucket that was found in the ground with Tylee is probably a catch basin. You know, let's keep in mind her body was partially dismembered, and we don't know specifically everything that was kind of dismembered from her body was partially dismembered and we don't know specifically uh everything that was kind of dismembered from her body but i do know this i think they had an area uh and i say they this is

this is a group of people that did this in my opinion um they had an area where they were uh dismembering her and they were trying to catch the blood and maybe some of the tissue. And so in a very quick manner, they took all of that, exposed it to heat for at least long enough for that skull to have essentially shattered due to the heat. It was very intense heat, but it didn't last long enough because they still had remains. So the bucket melted. That's why you're seeing the bucket in there, in my opinion. Now, that's Tylee. If we go to JJ, you heard them talking about these flagstones and you heard them talking about the

wood paneling. That suggests that they spent a lot more time with JJ. They even wrapped his body. Tylee wasn't the same. Okay. So these two events have different meanings to them, in my opinion. And, you know, the fact that he was so kind of tightly wound in this plastic and then surrounded, they're talking about a copious, a large amount of tape that's securing his body. You mean like a mummy? Yeah, kind of like a mummy. But I don't understand, for me, I don't understand why they took so much time with JJ and not as much time with Tali. I think that there was a lot of hatred directed at her.

I think maybe reflectively, like you were saying, maybe she had a big mouth. Maybe she ran her mouth at her mama and her mama took that as disrespect. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Maybe instead of saying this little girl had a quote, big mouth, that she was growing weary of her mother and her cult behavior and taking up with the next man that happened across her path. Maybe this girl was just old enough to know everything this doomsday cult leader, Chad Daybell, was spewing was a line of BS. And she questioned that.

Maybe she dared to say, Mom, he doesn't make any sense. I remember Nate Eaton, eastidahonews.com. Do you remember one? There was a moment when cult mom Lori Vallow was talking, and she said something about Tylee and Tylee's presence. And Tylee very calmly goes, mom, I am not a zombie. Do you remember that exchange? I mean, for her to answer

so matter-of-factly, Mom, I'm not a zombie. Obviously, that had been discussed before. I don't call that having a big mouth Nate Eaton as Joe Scott Morgan just did. Yeah, exactly. There was a moment where Lori

told Tylee, you've become a zombie. And she said, oh, not me, mom, not me too. Also remember that Tylee was one of the only witnesses who saw her father shot and killed, Charles Vallow. She was in the house. So she knew stuff. She knew stuff. And Lori knew that she knew stuff. You know, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Psychoanalyst, joining me out of Beverly Hills. We cover child abuse cases, child murder cases all the time. I haven't thought about this case in this fashion, but imagine not so much JJ, because I don't think you really knew what was going on, but Tylee being called a zombie by her mother, watching her mother take up with yet another man that happened to go by and fall under his crazy cult spell, spewing all this end of days BS, calling her a zombie, completely distracted with being a mom, focusing on nothing but scoring another husband, which she did, I might add, and didn't she just get the prize. But the way she must have treated this young teen girl

in the home, don't you know she resented her so much and couldn't wait to get rid of her daughter? Tylee was the truth teller. Tylee was the one who saw through all the BS and saw the reality of who her mother was going to marry, the fallacious nature of this cult. As the panel keeps saying, Tylee knew all. It reminds me of Narcissus who fell in the pool and drowned. We think it's because he was so in love with himself, he wanted to merge with his image. I once heard from a literature professor that actually his image looking back at him was frightening. He did not want to see himself. So he went to stab his own eyes out in the pool and drowned. So in other words, what I'm saying is that Tylee saw her mother clearly, and the mother could not tolerate that.

So she stabbed out the life, the spirit, the intellect of the one who saw her clearly. You know what? Joe Scott, do you hear her? Let her do the analysis, and you stick with the forensics, because I don't know that I'm ever going to forgive you for saying Tylee had a big mouth. All right. Well, hang on now. Hang on. Let me add one more thing. And maybe you can, you know, find some redemption in this for me. Many times with abused kids, what we'll see as far as trauma goes is that if the child backtalks the mother or the parent or the guardian, lots of

times what will happen is that kids will be popped in the mouth repeatedly. You'll see all kinds of mouth-related injuries. They'll even do things like salting and peppering the mouth. I'm talking about like putting stuff in the mouth in order to shut them up. It's almost a metaphor, if you will, if you want to go down this track of literature analogies. But with her, I'm really wondering, they keep talking about this fractured skull, Nancy, and we don't have all of the information yet. But I wonder, I really wonder if those are not, if they're not heat-related fractures, could her skull have been crushed? And could it have been crushed just out of sheer anger? This is a rage-filled event,

Nancy. And if she perceived this child as running her mouth and not being quiet, just on and on and on and on, after death, there might be an attempt to destroy her and kind of project this onto her. I really wonder about this. And it makes me think of the woman recovered in Florida that shot both of her children and shot the teen daughter in the mouth. Remember, the husband was away overseas. They were both high-ranking in the military, and the mom just didn't want to hear the backtalk anymore. Shot the daughter in the mouth and shot the son to cover up because hetalk anymore, shot the daughter in the mouth and shot the son to cover up

because he knew what happened to the daughter. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're talking about major developments in the last hours, and here's one of the reasons the judge ruled the way he did. Take a listen to a phone call between cult mom Lori Vallow and new husband Chad Daybell. Hello? You okay?

There's such a big problem. The home, you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. There's such a great property. The house I guess? Yeah. So that means we'll be talking to you. Okay.

Are they in the house? No, they're they in the house? No, they're in the house. It's property. Are they seizing stuff again? They're stanching. They're stanching. You are hearing a phone call between Lori,

called mom Lori Vallow and new husband, Chad Daybell. Take a look, take a listen to more of this call. Remember she's behind bars during this call. Have you talked to him already? So he knows what they're doing? Yeah. It's okay. Call somebody else.

I need some time to. I love you so much. I love you. Should I try to call you later? I don't know. I don't know. You can try. Yeah. let's examine what we're hearing did you ever notice um jackie on the show cops where there'll be a guy sitting on his easy chair watching tv and all of a sudden the cops would come running through in front of him he just keeps sitting there drinking his beer he's like not surprised at all there were cops running through his house well do you hear these voices

to joseph marone philadelphia criminal defense attorney um veteran trial lawyer at marone law.com joseph he's not doesn't sound at all surprised the cops are digging in his backyard. No, he doesn't. I mean, if you listen to this conversation, I mean, it would tell me as a juror that these two are very complacent, very at ease.

They're not concerned about the welfare of these children. They're just concerned about each other and which will further this conspiracy. You got to remember they're charged with the conspiracy of destructing or altering this evidence. And if you, you got to take this case as a whole, if you go all the way back from when Chad kind of lured her in and worked her and brought her into this cult and you follow all the facts of this case, I mean, it shows that they worked in concert to ultimately do what they said they did. And I think what's interesting,

what's the most interesting thing here in this case is Alex Cox. But Alex Cox, the brother who they have some direct evidence of him being on the property, of him holding the child asleep, taking the child to the property. You have Lori with Alex multiple times after this event. All those facts are going to show that she worked with Chad in this conspiracy to hide this evidence. It's just clear. And Joe Maroney, a Philadelphia criminal defense lawyer, on another occasion, she referred to Alex Cox as her avenging angel.

She told her then-husband, I have an avenging angel here to deal with you if you show up. Talking about her brother Alex Cox, who did shoot. Yes, yes, Joseph, who ultimately did shoot the husband dead and then claimed self-defense. So apparently he did it again with the children with her full knowledge. And what I'm saying, I mean, wouldn't you expect Dr. Bethany Marshall for this? I mean, if I saw cops digging up my backyard, I'd go out there and go, what are you doing? Why are you digging up this grass?

Nancy, that's exactly what you would do. You know what this reminds me of is Casey Anthony. Her mom calls is trying to pin her down on where little Kaylee is. And she's like, Mom, Mom, what's happening with my boyfriend? That's all she cares about is the boyfriend. It's her love interest. The bonds person that was in the home, I found out later after she first made bond, she gets home instead of asking one thing about Kelly, Tom goes, hey mom, what's for supper? Anyway, to Nate Eaton, I've got telecommunications expert, Bill Levitan with me. Nate, could you tell me the significance of the GPS information and why these two are going to be tried together because of it? And then Ben Levitan can explain the significance.

Well, Chad's phone call. Will you please stop calling him by his first name like you're best friends? Mr. Daybell, Chad Daybell. Daybell. Thank you. Go ahead. He sent a text message to his wife, Tammy, the day that police believed Tylee was buried. And he said, interesting day, I'm summarizing here. I just shot a raccoon in the yard and buried him in the pet cemetery. Fun times. Well, the day that that text message was sent, police went to Alex Cox's

phone. His GPS was on, so they were able to get the exact GPS location, and they pinned his GPS to that Pet Cemetery where Chad had said he buried the raccoon, but now we know that Tylee's body was buried there. Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, joining me out of Raleigh at benlevitan.com. Ben, how precise is that type of GPS tracking on phones? 150 feet, Nancy. And in an area, an open area like Idaho, it's going to be extremely accurate, probably get you down to 30 feet or so. All right.

So when you call 911, you know, and you're in downtown Atlanta, you get all these buildings and things up around you. Often they can't get a good GPS on you. But I would say they probably had Alex's phone within 30 feet of where he really was. So if we've got Alex's phone there, could we also GPS locate the Coltster Chad Daybill then makes that crazy phone call text message to his then living wife, Tammy, saying, oh, I shot a raccoon today and buried it at the pet cemetery. That's strong enough for me. But what about locating his phone by GPS? Now, see, that's a misconception. When you are using your cell phone, you're

connected up to the closest cell tower. And a cell tower is simply a radio station. And in Idaho, that radio station goes out about five miles in every direction. We cannot place him in an area. We can place him in an area that's within five miles of that cell tower. Nancy, that's a humongous area. Why are you saying I can track Alex Cox down to 30 feet but not Chad Daybell? Okay, because the records that police are using are called call detail records. Every time you make a call, receive a call, send and receive texts, the phone company only keeps records of the cell tower to which you were connected. In the case of Alex, we had his GPS active.

Okay. The records that are kept in the normal course of business, Nancy, by the phone companies only show the call parties who called who, what they did, in this case a text message, and to which cell tower he was connected at that time. So a cell tower, there's a little radio station. It goes out five miles in every direction. So how big is that?

Oh, let's see. That's like a 75-square-mile area. So they can't go back and triangulate his phone location, Chad Daybills? Absolutely not. Then how did they do it without? How did they, Nate Eaton? Go ahead, Nate. From what I understand, the FBI had Alex's phone after he died, after he died in December.

They had his phone, and they processed that phone for months. That's why it took police so long to actually go and find the bodies at Chad's house. It took them months and months. They were waiting on that. Why can't they do that with Daybell's phone? I don't know if they've done that with Chad Daybell's phone. So they may be doing that. Well, Ben Levitan, you just taught me something I didn't know about tracking phones.

For right now, these two are going to stew in the same pot in front of a jury. But as Nate Eaton from East Idaho News predicts, I think there will be more charges, including murder charges. We wait as justice unfolds in the case of cult mom Lori Vallow and her brand new hubby, Chad Daybell. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.