Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Cult Mom' Lori Vallow claims she's getting 'peeped on' behind bars

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

CULT MOM Lori Vallow tries again to gain bail, and her mom speaks out for the first time. Where are her missing children? Vallow still has not revealed where JJ and Tylee are.Joining Nancy Grace today to discuss: Ashley Willcott - Judge and trial attorney, Anchor on Court TV Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist Sheryl McCollum - Director of the Atlanta Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet" Nate Eaton- Reporter at East Idaho News  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Hi guys, Nancy Grace here. At a time when we are all pulling together to fight coronavirus, COVID-19, I have something for you. An all free e-chapter on coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a coronavirus crime victim from door-to-door sales of fake

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Hit the link and download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and scam artists, cons, that will not only take advantage of you, but take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, the people you love at a time when we are all fighting the virus. I hope you go to CrimeOnline.com and download this. It's been highly researched and presented for you for free. Goodbye, friend. Keep the faith. Two children remain missing. Their mother, cult mom Lori Vallow, has just appeared in court again demanding a lower bond.

Demanding to walk free. And insisting she is being mistreated behind bars because she's being secretly or surreptitiously recorded. But still, she gives no hint or suggestion as to the welfare of her two missing children, J.J. and Tylee. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. While cult mom Lori Vallow is very concerned about her own well-being and her own release and lowered bond from behind bars, apparently not as concerned about her children. Why does she refuse to reveal their whereabouts? That can't be good. In the last hours, her mother and sister have broken their silence, and they are insisting that Lori never expressed Lori Vallow

cult mom resentment toward her children, that Lori Vallow can't tell them where the children are because she's in jail. And everything is recorded. Okay, that is a load of BS. That's a technical legal term. With me, an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again, Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, court TV anchor at ashleywilcott.com. Karen Stark, New York psychologist at karenstark.com. Director of the Cold Case Research Institute and forensics expert, Cheryl McCollum.

Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet, death investigator, Joe Scott Morgan. But right now to Nate Eaton, reporter with EastIdahoNews.com. Nate, on the story from the get-go, Nate, help me out. I've been in many, many jails, and nothing would stop you from writing. If you think you're being recorded, which you are during visitations, everybody knows that. That's not secret.

You could easily write a note or mouth the words to your family to tell them where are the children. So this is all just bogus. The sister saying, Lori can't tell me where the children are because she's in jail. That's BS.s well not only that Nancy uh Lori was not booked into jail until March the children have not been seen since the fall so there were several months there where they could have communicated with her if they were

worried about calls being recorded why didn't they approach her around Christmas time or the beginning of the year we found Chad and Lori in Hawaii in January. They weren't arrested for another month. So there was a month there that the kids were not with their parents. One would think that you could call over in Hawaii and say, hey, we noticed JJ and Tylee weren't on the news with you. Where are they? So I don't know if very many people are agreeing with this defense that we can't ask for where they are because the calls are being recorded. That seems a little far-fetched to many people. There are so many dead bodies connected to cult mom Lori Vallow.

And we call her cult mom because she is deep, deep into prepare the people cults that believe the end of the world is happening in July. You know, I'm going to put out a hard question to you, Nate, and that is, I believe it's 50-50 that children could be dead or alive. If they're alive, they're tucked away with people in this cult. And I, like you, find it really difficult to believe. Vallow's mother and sister have never said, where are the children? So either they're lying or cult mom won't tell them. You know, Nate Eaton, that in this cult, they believe the war of the worlds, the end of

the world is going to happen in July. Okay. You don't have much time to repent and get straight with the Lord, Nate, if that's all true, and neither do I. But do you believe there's a possibility Valo is keeping the children hidden away until after July? There could be a possibility. And there's a few of her supporters, her followers, some of Chad Daybell's followers that say all of the truth will be revealed soon and that this story will become deflated like a balloon. Those are their words online in these public forums where they are saying this whole thing is media hype.

And once the location of the children is revealed, it'll be, oh, OK, no big deal. We do know that Chad has said the children are, quote, safe. Does that mean safe in a bunker, as you mentioned? Does that mean safe in heaven? Does that mean safe with a relative? As of now, we don't know, and the authorities say that no one is communicating with them. Chad or Lori, they've shut out the cops, so they're left with other investigative tips. I mean, the reality is to you, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, you know they've got taps on all the phones. Jailhouse phone calls are recorded. Did Daybell, so deep into this cult, he's written 25 books on the end of the world,

or Lori Vallow, cult mom, have been calling to check on the children at all? Nancy, not only does she know recordings of all her calls are being made, when you get into jail, they give you a handbook. That's like one of the first things they tell you. I mean, this is not a big secret. That's like one of the first things they tell you. I mean, this is not a big secret to anybody. They're going to be recorded. What is baffling to all of us is the length of time that has gone by.

And when I was listening to her mom and her sister preparing to talk to y'all today, what baffles me about their attitude is they're laughing. And they're acting like, oh, she's being mistreated because they're recording her. And, you know, she doesn't have a right to talk to us without tipping her hand about where the children are. You're the grandmama and the aunt, and you don't have them? She didn't entrust you all with her own children? I'm just saying to you, reporter with eastidahonews.com, Nate Eaton, that if she was trying to check on her children, there are no phone calls, no texts, no nothing. So it's not happening on her end anyway. How did the whole thing get started? Take a listen to this. Police say while they found Lori and Chad in Kauai over the

weekend, there's no evidence that her children were ever there. Hawaii police served Lori with a court order that says she has five days to physically produce the kids. Chad, where are Lori's kids? Nate Eaton with East Idaho News was in Kauai this weekend right after police served Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell with two search warrants. One for this black Ford Explorer the couple was driving around the island,

and another for their Kauai townhome where the couple's been living. They've been missing for four months. You have nothing to say? You're over here in Hawaii? Police don't know how long the couple's been in Hawaii. Lori and Chad staying mostly quiet before ducking into the Kauai Beach Resort over the weekend. There's people around the country praying for your children, praying for you guys. Why don't you give us answers? That's great.

That's great. That's great that they're praying for you, praying for your kids. What? You hear our friend Nate Eaton just running alongside Lori Vallow, cult mom, and her brand new husband. They got married a little over a week after his wife died in her sleep. Curious that Lori Vallow, cult mom, had ordered a beach wedding dress and a wedding ring before his wife mysteriously passed away. Nate Eaton, in that moment, as you're running along beside Lori Vallow asking questions, what did you perceive? Well, she was very cold.

She obviously answered the one question. I asked 29 times, 29 questions. The one she answered, I said, people are praying for you and your children. She said, that's great. And then the one other time where she actually looked away from, you know, straight ahead is when I mentioned that she had a bag full of cash. We noticed right before she darted into this resort that she was carrying this plastic bag of cash. I said, you have a bag full of cash there. She then looked down at the cash and tried to cover it with some paperwork she was holding

with the warrant she had just been served. So it was almost as if she didn't want us to see that she had all of that money. Later, one of her friends told me that she thinks Lori actually treated that moment like she was on the red carpet, that she loved being the center of attention, that look at me, here I am. And then just a few days later, she actually walked into the local church house with Chad and said, we're here. We want to attend here. We don't want to be a disruption. But by the way, everything you've seen on the news, that's all hype.

It's all untrue and all the truth will come out. So it obviously didn't shake her that she had been all over the national news. In fact, many people say she kind of enjoyed it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Where are Tylee and JJ, cult mom Lori Vallow's children, still either dead or in hiding. Take a listen to our friend CBS This Morning News correspondent Jonathan Vigliotti. As many in the town of Rexburg demanded to know where are 7-year-old JJ and 17-year-old Tylee. Vallow, who's charged with felony child abandonment, has revealed nothing about the fate of her kids. Investigators confirmed Tylee was last seen in Yellowstone National Park. There is no evidence of Tylee Ryan leaving this park. The FBI is now calling on everyone that visited here September 8th to look through their photos for signs of

the family. As Vallow's husband Chad Daybell looked on, her defense attorney complained Vallow has been hounded by the masses. She cannot go anywhere without cameras and people scrutinizing her every single move. Also speaking out, JJ's grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, whose demand for a welfare check launched the search. Right now, I only have one question. Where are the kids? Where are the kids? Where are the kids? Bring them home. And bail was set at $1 million. If released, Vallow will have to wear an ankle bracelet.

At no point during this hearing did Vallow or her attorney mention where the kids are. Straight out to Nate Eaton joining me from EastIdahoNews.com. Nate Eaton, so many things have happened in the last days. Number one, a bail reduction hearing. Thank God the judge had the sense not to reduce her bail again. It's already been sliced from five million to one million. In that hearing, we learned that cult mom Lori Vallow claims she's being secretly recorded. Explain. Well, her attorney argued, you know, all calls are recorded. However, if you meet with your attorney, there's attorney-client privilege where those calls cannot be recorded. But the jail had to make modifications because of COVID-19.

And so the attorney argued that because of those modifications, he had to use the normal phone system that most people use and that some of those calls were recorded. The prosecutor said, though, every time you pick up that phone, there's a warning that says this call will be recorded. And so he argued that, listen, if you were worried about that, you should have then hung up the phone and told the deputy you need to stop recording. Now, so there was one or two times where they said, yes, the call may have been recorded. They were not listened to. But the judge said that's still no reason to lower her bond. There are other ways that you can communicate. The interesting thing to me that came out of this hearing is that her attorney said he asked for bond to go $100,000, maybe $200,000.

He said Chad and Lori are running out of money. Nobody is buying Chad's book. Lori obviously doesn't have a job. He said there's no way they would be able to afford bond unless it was $200,000 or lower than that. So this million dollars, it's highly, highly unlikely that she will ever be able to meet that. Nobody's buying his books. Did anybody ever really buy his books about the end of the world all doomsday? Well, some court documents show that over the course of two or three years,

I believe several years ago, he brought in maybe $3,000 or $4,000. So these were not bestsellers. One would think now that they're in the headlines that maybe the book sales have gone up. But his attorney says they have not. Gee, I wonder why. Because it's crazy? Just throwing it out there. So the way they described it, Nate Eaton, was if Lori Vallow was somehow being spied upon by the jailers.

Look, it's no secret that there are recording devices throughout jails. And yes, anybody that takes a collect call from the jail is told in a recording, this call is being recorded. That's no secret. So that was the big deal, Nate? That was her attorney's defense. You know, he, bond was already reduced, as you mentioned. Then he said, new evidence has come to light. We need to hold a hearing. Well, because of COVID-19, they had to push these hearings back two or three times. So he continually argued, my client is being treated unfairly. And when I went to meet with her, two of the conversations were recorded and who knows how many more and everybody's listening to me. The judge said, listen, every other person in jail is dealing with the same exact situation.

And you haven't really proven it. You know, he spoke for two hours arguing this. But not once during that entire hearing were JJ and Tylee brought up. Not even once were they mentioned? Not once. You know what? You're right. We carried it live at Crime Online.

You're right. I never heard them say one thing about Tylee and JJ. Now we know Tylee hasn't been seen since that fateful day at Yellowstone where she was there with JJ, her mom, cult mom Lori Vallow, and her brother Alex Cox now dead. Take a listen to this. When the nanny messaged Lori again the day after JJ was last seen on September 24th, she responded to me that JJ was with his grandparents for a month and that she was in Hawaii.

She said in about a month when they come back that I could work again. Well, once that month passed, I texted her again around Halloween time asking if I could work. There was no response. Rexburg police have said they confirmed Tylee never attended BYU-Idaho, which was what they say Lori was claiming to other people. A search warrant revealed that Lori left behind JJ's medication in that Rexburg townhome with pills still in the bottle. They said that medication has not been filled in Idaho. That's not a good sign. Guys, you were just hearing our friends at Fox 13 News Utah, Lauren Steinbrecher speaking with me, an all-star panel.

To you, Justice Scott Morgan, professor of forensics and death investigator. His meds were left behind the little boy, JJ, and they haven't been refilled. So wherever he is, if he's not dead, he's not getting very important medication. No, he's not, Nancy. And that, you know, that creates a special level of hell, you know, for this child. First off, he doesn't have his mom around to comfort him in any way. Then he doesn't have prescribed medication that, you know, some physician has given him to treat, you know, the illness that he's suffering from. And now he's in isolation, if that is the case. I got to tell you, Nancy, I'm hearing all of this relative to her. And I, like Cheryl, had heard these interviews with the mother and with the sister.

And one of the things that really stuck out to me was that the mother said, oh, these kids are her world. She'd never do anything. And I'm thinking, well, if they're her world, how in the world has she had time to be married five times? You know, wow, you're really a multitasker here. You can do all of this. How can you pay attention to all of these moving parts and still be committed to your children? Where are these kids at this moment? Tom, it's a very simple question.

And we didn't get any answers at that bond reduction hearing, which, you know, left me scratching my head. And another thing, and I'll stop here. Now, now Chad Daybell has, you know, lawyered up with Mr. Means, who is also Lori's attorney. That hadn't happened before either. And I find that very interesting as well. Lawyered up with the same attorney. Speaking of the new husband, husband number five, Chad Daybell, we now know that cult mom Lori Vallow asked her doomsday author husband, Chad Daybell, to figure out whether her two children were light or dark spirits just before they went missing. Okay, Nate Eaton, join me from eastidahonews.com. Nate Eaton, asking whether your child is a dark spirit. That doesn't bode well.

No, it doesn't. And these court documents are pretty perplexing, I guess you could say, head-scratching, that Lori and Chad believed that their children, JJ and Tylee, had gone from light to dark and had become possessed of zombies. They also believed that because of that, you were no longer able to control your body. And at one point, they mentioned to others that once you have become dark, you need to die in order to fulfill the will of God, that this is all God's purpose. And they believe that as a family, they will be together even after this life. So you need to do what God commands here. And even though it might be hard or challenging or not make sense in the grand scheme of things, this is the plan of the Lord.

And this is all according to court documents that have been filed, things that Chad and Lori allegedly told to their needs. Melody. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the disappearance and potential death of two little children, JJ and Tylee, linked to cult mom Lori Vallow. Joining me, an all-star panel, to psychologist Karenaren stark joining me out of new york karen how can you be so brainwashed by a cult or another new man in your life that you buy everything they say hook line and sinker is my child a dark or a light spirit claiming your children are zombies that they've

been taken over by evil spirits and the only way out for them is to kill them well Nancy that is not unusual when you're talking about brainwashing because what happens is and it could happen to most people you're in a situation where it's being repeated to you over and over again usually deprived of any kind of other social contact and yes that could definitely happen but they're saying that this is a woman who cares so much for her children and if in fact she were trying to protect them from this so called catastrophe that was going to happen why wouldn't she just say that that she's got them in a safe place and she's protecting them and here's where they are? You know, you're right. To ask you, Wilcott, would

your judge and a trial lawyer, a court TV anchor, would a judge be satisfied with that if she said, I've got them hidden away with, I guess you would call it a religious group for safekeeping. Because I believe there's going to be the end of the world in July. What about that? I don't think a judge would accept that. No, absolutely not. I see too many cases. Religion is a very good thing.

However, I do see cases where it can result in going overboard to abuse or neglect. Without laying eyes on these children, I as a judge would not accept any answer because there's no reason. There's no reason in the world if you are about your children, protecting your children, loving your children, caring for your children, that you wouldn't say, let me show them to you so you know they're safe and then I'm going to continue to care for them in my way. Take a listen to FOX 13's Adam Herberts. Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow are newlyweds. Both of them had spouses who suspiciously died within the last few months. Tonight we spoke to a man who used to be part of the family and has some insight on what might be going on. To MY RIGHT I HAVE LAURIE. SAY HELLO LAURIE. HELLO PEOPLE. THIS IS A CLIP FROM

LAURIE VALO'S RELIGIOUS PODCAST RECORDED BEFORE SHE AND HER NEW HUSBAND CHAD DABEL STARTED RUNNING FROM POLICE ACCUSED OF LYING ABOUT THE LOCATION OF HER TWO MISSING CHILDREN.

IF YOU DID SOMETHING BAD YESTERDAY THE LORD WANTS YOU TO SAY YOU'RE SORRY TODAY AND JUST DO BETTER TOMORROW. I SPENT THE LAST 11 YEARS OF MY LIFE SPENDING TIME WITH LAURIE

AND HER NOW DECEASED CHILDREN. I THINK THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THATORROW. I SPENT THE LAST 11 YEARS OF MY LIFE SPENDING TIME WITH LORI AND HER NOW DECEASED HUSBAND CHARLES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE KIDS. I KNOW THAT THERE'S PEOPLE WHO DO AND THEY'RE NOT

TALKING. BRANDON BOUDREAU WHO USED TO BE MARRIED TO LORI VALLO'S NIECE SAYS HE WAS PART OF THE FAMILY. HE BAPTIZED LORI'S DAUGHTER TYLIE RYAN AND LOV loved JJ, her adopted son, with autism. I don't know why they're doing what they're doing. It doesn't make any sense. Back to Nate Eaton joining me, reporter, eastidahonews.com. So much happening in the

so-called cult mom Lori Vallow case. Number one, she's in court demanding a bond reduction and claiming she's being spied on surreptitiously in the jail. The judge wouldn't hear any of that, did not reduce the bond. We are now learning months before Tylee and JJ disappear, she, cult mom, asked her new husband, are her children light or dark spirits? If you're dark, according to her, you have been controlled by an evil spirit, you're a zombie, and you have to die. According to what we're learning, Daybell first said that JJ was a light spirit, the seven-year-old little boy, but Tylee has a, quote, dark spirit.

The 17-year-old girl last spotted on a trip with cult mom and her now dead brother at yellowstone she's never been seen again to nate eaton did that uh let me just say diagnosis change and they were both determined to be dark spirit zombies well it would appear and if you're trying to you know piece together a timeline, the investigators say Tylee was last seen at Yellowstone the beginning of September. They know J.J. was seen at least two or three weeks later when he went to school. And then Lori walked in and withdrew him, saying she was going to homeschool. You know, it's interesting that the FBI actually put out a release. They have not commented at all on this case, except for one particular thing.

They asked anybody at Yellowstone National Park on some specific dates at the beginning of September to send them photos of potential sightings of JJ, of Tylee, of their parents, of the truck that they were in that day. That shows me that they are focused on the park. What happened at the park that weekend? They actually released some photos they took at the park of the family up there on that weekend. So that has definitely been a major focus. But we know that JJ was seen at least a few weeks later. So I don't know, did he go from light to dark within two or three weeks? I'm sure the investigators are looking at that as well. The interesting thing is that the nephew of Lori said when he first learned all of these religious beliefs, he said it was like a Dungeons

and Dragons manual. It was so bizarre. To Nate Eaton joining me from EastIdahoNews.com. What can you tell me about a new investigation into the death of Lori Vallow's third husband, Ryan, Joseph Ryan, I believe? Yeah, well, we know that Joseph Ryan died of what was said to be a heart attack. Who said that? Who said that? That was written on the autopsy reporter so he was autopsied came out okay and then he was immediately cremated he was cremated but the interesting thing is that his body was not found he died and then but but they didn't get to his body within like a week or two because he was living alone nobody knew where he was so there

are some questions being raised as to what happens to the body if you're left alone for a week or two. Could whatever's in your system happen? I'm not sure. I'm not a medical expert, but that is a focus now. And there are some questions being raised as did Lori have a part of that? At the time they were separated, they were not together. It had been a nasty, nasty dispute, divorce dispute. And he, did he have a life insurance policy and where did that money go? That's a great question. Well, another issue regarding that is that Tylee, is Tylee Ryan? That was Joseph Ryan's bio daughter. Correct. So what's the connection there?

And we have been told his death, COD, was an apparent heart attack. We've also been told that Tammy Daybell died of natural causes in her sleep. We still don't know why Vallow's brother, Alex Cox, died. I mean, there are a lot of dead bodies connected to her, Lori Daybelt. But now we learned that the FBI is reportedly investigating the death of Lori Vallow's third husband, Joseph Ryan. If it was an apparent heart attack, why would they be investigating it? That is your domain. To Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, what about it?

It seems like she's like the angel of death. It's like everywhere she goes, it seems like people pass away. Looking back on this, what are they going to have to examine at this moment in time unless tissue samples were saved from the autopsy? Just like Nate had said, he had been down for a while when they found him. So that means that whatever tissues they did recover from him would have been compromised. Also, did they do toxicology at that time? And would that have been compromised relative to decomposition?

The fluids actually decompose to a certain degree. So I'm wondering what they found in his system at that point in time. There's a standard panel that'll look for things like heroin and cannabinoids and all those things. But as standard policy, they don't look for exotic poisons. They don't look for heavy metals most of the time. So we're still going to be left scratching our head over his death. Well, let me tell you what has been reported. In the wake of J.J. and Tylee's disappearance, family members are concerned over the fact that not one but two of Lori Vallow's husbands have died in the last two years. That's quite the coincidence. One relative

says that Joseph's death, age 59, after he died, Lori called him, quote, evil and that, quote, God took care of him and says that Lori Vallow did collect money from his life insurance policy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about the recent developments in the case of so-called cult mom Lori Vallow, just in court demanding a bond reduction. Straight back out to Nate Eaton with the EastIdahows.com. Nate, at this point, why would she lie about Tylee being registered in college when that's not true and attending classes? I mean, why lie about it if it's not a nefarious outcome? That's a great question. There has been some indication that Lori continued to receive money to Tylee's account,

along with JJ's account. And she was getting money herself as a quote-unquote single mother. So would that have stopped the money coming in if she reported them missing? If she, you know, if heaven forbid, Tylee was dead, obviously the money would stop there. So she was continuing to collect these finances. And one would think if she really was going to hide them away in a bunker or do something, why wait in jail for two, three, four months? Why not, say, go to the judge? In the beginning, they said, just show us a picture. Have them hold up a FaceTime with us. Have them hold up a newspaper with today's date. That's all we want. Just show us a picture. Have them hold up a FaceTime with us. Have them hold up a newspaper with today's date. That's all we want. Just show us they're alive and this can all be resolved.

And to this date, she has not done that. To Ashley Wilcott, Judge, Trial Lawyer, Court TV anchor, when I look at her behavior, I mean, it's hard for me to imagine a mom hurting her children. On the other hand, when you don't know a horse, look at the track record. Everybody around her drops like flies. Couldn't a judge take her in camera with just her lawyer and have her produce proof the children are alive? If the state agreed to that, absolutely.

So you can't do any ex parte, obviously, you know that. If the state agreed, then yes, that could be an option for proof of life. Let's call it that because we need to know the children are safe. It's not doctored. But I think the state would want to know that as well, because remember, their goal, as you well know, having been a prosecutor, is to prosecute the criminals. And so maybe the children are safe, but it doesn't mean she hasn't violated a court order. It doesn't mean that she hasn't done anything inappropriate or amounting to a criminal act. But at this point, as a judge, I would want any kind of proof, verification, these children are safe. That's my ultimate concern. Yeah, the state wants to know a lot of things, but the state doesn't get to know.

The crux of this case is where are the children? Are they dead or alive? Are they safe? And I believe if she could go in camera, and I'm very surprised her lawyer didn't suggest this, or did he? And she rejected it. Have an in camera, which means in chambers, in secret, reveal to the judge that the children are safe and be done with it and let her out of jail. That doesn't mean the current charges don't still stand, but she could at least wait outside of jail. Nate Eaton, joining me from EastIdahoNews.com. What else is the latest? Tell me what else is happening in the case.

I understand that the autopsy on the Vallow brother, Alex Cox, is due any day that it's been completed. Yeah, I'm imagining it will probably be next week at the earliest. We're also waiting on that Tammy Daybell autopsy. But we also know that the state attorney general here in Idaho has taken over the investigation into Tammy's death regarding Chad and Lori. And that investigation focuses on conspiracy, regarding Chad and Lori. And that investigation focuses on conspiracy, attempted murder, and murder. And from what I'm hearing, they may be able to go forward with that case without the autopsy, meaning there's got to be a significant amount of evidence for them to pursue that if they say, we're just going to go without the autopsy,

and hopefully that will come back and confirm what we have so i need you to tell me that again nate because that is very significant so yeah what we do know is the ag is investigating chad and laurie for conspiracy attempted murder and murder and that that case could go forward with or without Tammy Daybell's autopsy. Meaning if they're going to go after them for their, for those crimes, they've got to have enough evidence that says, forget the autopsy. We're going to do this. Or Nate, think it through to its logical conclusion, or they know what the autopsy reveals and the autopsy reveals nothing. If that's true, they go there's on your premise they could go forward with conspiracy to commit murder attempted murder and murder

even though the autopsy really reveals nothing which means the cod cause of death was somehow obscured that is that of course yep. That is a possibility. And they are, the evidence in this case, from what I've been told, is strong, very strong. A lot of evidence in the cloud, a lot of text messages, which we've seen have come out, emails, which we've seen have gradually been leaked. Lori. Like what? The computers.

You mean the Amazon order? The Amazon order, yep. When they ordered the rings on October 2nd, 17 days before Tammy Daybell died, Lori orders a ring that then appears in her wedding photos with Chad. We have that surveillance footage where her and Chad were at the storage facility October 2nd, and he grabbed her butt, and he's still married to Tammy. So all of these things all of these technologically why did you put that in my head sorry now i gotta think about sorry i'll send you the doomsday author chad daybell grabbing cult mom's rear end and p.s in this house we don't say but okay

but that said i didn't catch that i just saw them going in and out of the store, the storage facility. I was focused on the fact that there were children's toys, clothing, winter clothing. I might add that they would need wherever they are. But you picked up on him grabbing her rear end. We got enhanced footage that shows very clearly uh that i'll send it to you i'll send you i'll send you the makes me feel nasty it was telling because he was still married to tammy daybell and she was still healthy and alive and you know preparing for what was her uh what was her date of death tammy daybell tammy daybell died October 19th, and she would have turned 50 this week. So,

it wasn't all holding hands and singing hymns. Is that what you're telling me? It looked like it was more than that. You know what, to you, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum, never a dull day in Crimeville. Can we agree on that? Absolutely. No question. Jump in. I got to hear what you got, what you have to say. Well, Nancy, there's just so much that, you know, think about the last six months with these children, where they've been missing. And you think there's been no visits to a doctor. There's been no travel on an airplane. They, Tali isn't driving a car. Nobody's registered anybody from school. I don't know what's been done with tax returns. But you think basically these children have stopped existing.

So if in fact they're okay, you've got a woman that's being charged with deserting them and abandoning them. And both of those charges carry 14 years. So if you're looking at 28 years and all you've got to do is say, look, there's been someone that is religiously affiliated with me. They are safe. They are fine. Here's the person. I've given that information to my attorney. One police officer and my attorney can go check on them, come back, say, yep, they're fine. I mean, Tali's going to be an adult soon. But you're telling me that there's been no insurance with JJ nobody's taking care of his medical needs nobody's taking care of their schooling all of this is a problem and you've

got a mom that's a doomsdayer and she has out of her own mouth said Tylee's dead you know what that's a good point would you discuss that please one person said hey where is she and she told them oh she died a while back so any mother that would let that statement come out of their mouth, there may be a little truth in it. The other issue that I've got is Uncle Alex. So Uncle Alex kills one of the husbands when he shows up to pick up JJ. Well, that's pretty traumatic, but that's the uncle. The uncle then threatens another husband with a taser. Alex was also in Wyoming at Yellowstone with him. So you've got Arizona, you've got Wyoming, you've got Idaho,

you've got all these things where Alex keeps coming up. And now digitally, forensically, there's a footprint with him being connected to Tammy. And now suddenly Alex is dead too. So all of these people that might be able to testify against her, they're gone. You know, to reporter Nate Eaton, who's been on the case from the beginning, eastidahonews.com, Nate, sum it up for me. Where do we stand right now? Well, in July, there will be the preliminary hearing for Lori. That's when the prosecution will need to go in and say, this is all of the evidence I've got.

This is why we need to go to a jury. There will be witnesses called. He has submitted a list of 48 potential witnesses. And on that list is Chad Daybell. Won't that be interesting if they call Chad to the stand and say, what do you know about these missing children? That'll be the next big step for Lori, unless they ask for another bond reduction hearing, which I don't think will happen again. It's already been denied. Meanwhile, we're waiting on the autopsy for Alex. We're waiting on the autopsy for Tammy. And the state attorney general will continue their investigation into the potential murder charges that could come in relation to Tammy. So the preliminary hearing moving forward in July,

where in the state plans to call 48 witnesses, regards the current five charges against Colt Montmorey-Vallo. Yes or no, Nate Eaton? Yes, that's it. Yeah, the desertion charges, the desertion. The two felony desertion charges, the one obstruction lying to police, the one obstruction not producing the children in court, and the one obstruction lying to police, the one obstruction not producing the children in court, and the one obstruction of trying to convince another party to lie about the children's whereabouts. Those are the three charges pending now. They are not murder charges, but the state is pressing forward. We wait as justice unfolds.

Tip line 208-359-3000. Repeat, 208-359-3000. Repeat 208-359-3000. If you're hiding those children, you are an accessory to a felony. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.